pisskop's Large Normal Review, June 2019

[implosion]

Oh I guess I said 17 players in the review queue but there were actually a couple of setups given. Not sure which one you want to run?

- Double vote is activated by a pm to the mod. It is retroactive from the point the pm is sent, not when the mod installs it. Secret double vote is made public in VC with VOTE: as its placeholder, and a VC will follow shortly after every switch.
- SK won this last time, though maf was endgamed. it was close, and town took the game too lightly to be viable.
- Gunsmith gets a guilty on the bodyguard, the mafia, and the viggies. It does not get a guilty on the SK.

Spoiler: setup

16:4:1

2 goons
1 vig enabler
1 JoaT (1-Shot Ninja, 1-Shot Doctor, 1-Shot Cop)

1 SK with secret double vote and 1 shot bulletproof

11 VTs
1 weak bodyguards
1 odd night vig
1 even night vig
1 tracker
1 gunsmith

1: is this still balanced?
2: is this normal?
3: Can I change it to make it spicier?

Enh?

17 players

13:4

2 Maf JoaT [1 shot Tracker, 1 shot Ninja, 1 shot Doctor]
1 Maf Encryptor and Vig Enabler
1 Maf 1shot rolestopper

8 Town Citizen
1 Town 2shot cop
1 Town 3shot tracker
1 Town 3shot Jailkeeper
2 Town JoaT [1 shot commuter, 1 shot neighborizor, 1 shot Bodyguard]

[implosion]

One thing I can immediately say is that a doublevote (secret or not) is not normal. Apart from that, at least strictly speaking, both setups are normal.

[implosion]

Also,

Primary: Performer
Secondary: Ircher

[Performer]

Hey everyone! Been awhile since I've seen you two onsite!
---------

Waiting for pisskop to choose one of the setups but along with what imp said about the dv,

first impressions

of the 2 setups are these:

-The larger setup with the 2 vigs & sk, can have high swing potential if that's your cup of tea. The sk can completely get free from the town gunsmith check alone, so I'm not sure if they need another buff modifier since they already have 1s bp and can nk per night. At most I would think they can be buffed with a rolecop modifier , so a rolecop 1s bp serial killer if simply 1s bp serial killer isn't enough -

thoughts, ircher?

Comparatively, I think the larger large normal setup is more balanced compared to the smaller large normal setup.

-The smaller 17-player setup doesn't look like there's a vig, so it looks like the vig enabler & doc will cause scum to be paranoid. BUT if they use those roles in a different way if pushed to claim , they can cause wifom for TOWN instead

[pisskop]

the first one was run as an NY. I was worried when I heard that some changes were made to normals.


I only made the double voter to challenge a popular habit of the day: ie running multiple players to L-1 and then extracting several claims

[pisskop]

Id like to run the second, tbh.

I want seceral JoaTs and vestigial powers if I can

[Ircher]

Hey Performer and pisskop.

As to your question, I would say 1-Shot Bulletproof Serial Killer is plenty of power for the sk, but seeing as pisskop wishes to run the second setup, it doesn't seem like it really matters.

[Performer]

Id like to run the second, tbh.

got it

Hey Performer and pisskop.

As to your question, I would say 1-Shot Bulletproof Serial Killer is plenty of power for the sk, but seeing as pisskop wishes to run the second setup, it doesn't seem like it really matters.

+1

[Performer]

Just looking at the scum team, it looks alright in a vacuum...I've been thinking over the town power over and over though, that's the worry I have .

The 2 joats look flexible, the jk looks can help town massively or hinder town by accidentally hitting town pr, the cop is really strong, the tracker is someone mitigated by that 1s ninja scum option.

I think it's specifically the # of uses (shots) town has. going to have to think it over more in terms of if there are balance issues with that

[pisskop]

Vanilla Cop would fix that.

The cop wouldnt know that all Vanilla roles are town.

[pisskop]

JK is probably the most powerful role in the game, imo.

Been thinking that maybe a vengeful or vig would be useful to add an extra kill to balance them. Or just removing the JK.

[pisskop]

The second setup was only a rough first draft put together as an alternative, so theres not much more than a theme there.

[pisskop]

17 players

13:4

2 Maf JoaT [1 shot Tracker, 1 shot Ninja, 1 shot Doctor]
1 Maf Encryptor
1 Maf 1shot rolestopper

9 Town Citizen
1 Town 3shot Vanilla cop
1 Town 3shot tracker
2 Town JoaT [1 shot commuter, 1 shot neighborizor, 1 shot Bodyguard]

Better?

[pisskop]

Can a Maf Rolestopper target a townie, then have a teammate kill that townie in order to prevent a doc or bodyguard? hunh, that seems unorthodox but situationally useful.

[Ircher]

Can a Maf Rolestopper target a townie, then have a teammate kill that townie in order to prevent a doc or bodyguard? hunh, that seems unorthodox but situationally useful.

I don't see any issues with this from a normality standpoint. (As to what the point of this would be, I'm not sure.)

[Performer]

The second setup was only a rough first draft put together as an alternative, so theres not much more than a theme there.

Ah I see. From personal experience and from others' advice (rc/mastina/varsoon/jingle/etcetera), having a theme helps with role choices

But it's ultimately up to you how you want a setup.
---------

Can a Maf Rolestopper target a townie, then have a teammate kill that townie in order to prevent a doc or bodyguard? hunh, that seems unorthodox but situationally useful.

I see no problem with this either - if we were to follow normal game rules (including NAR), the block should work before the protect.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... Resolution

Copy
Hide
Bus Drive
Block
Redirect
Protect
Miscellaneous
Kill
Recruit
Inspect

So...theoretically your setup would probably look like this in action priorities: commute>rolestop>bg>track>nk>recruit (neighborhood)>cop

[Performer]

17 players

13:4

2 Maf JoaT [1 shot Tracker, 1 shot Ninja, 1 shot Doctor]
1 Maf Encryptor
1 Maf 1shot rolestopper

9 Town Citizen
1 Town 3shot Vanilla cop
1 Town 3shot tracker
2 Town JoaT [1 shot commuter, 1 shot neighborizor, 1 shot Bodyguard]

Better?

I think there should be 1 more tpr. How about 1 more joat but the joat will have 1-shot jk & 1-shot vig?

[pisskop]

17 players

13:4

2 Maf JoaT [1 shot Tracker, 1 shot Ninja, 1 shot Doctor]
1 Maf Encryptor
1 Maf 1shot rolestopper

8 Town Citizen
1 Town 3shot Vanilla cop
1 Town 3shot tracker
1 Town Ascetic JoaT [1 shot Jailkeeper, 1 shot Even-Night Vigilant]
2 Town JoaT [1 shot commuter, 1 shot neighborizor, 1 shot Bodyguard]

Sure, Ascetic too?

[implosion]

Can a Maf Rolestopper target a townie, then have a teammate kill that townie in order to prevent a doc or bodyguard? hunh, that seems unorthodox but situationally useful.

I don't see any issues with this from a normality standpoint. (As to what the point of this would be, I'm not sure.)

No, the answer is no. Rolestoppers in normal games stop kills, so they'd be protected.

[Performer]

17 players

13:4

2 Maf JoaT [1 shot Tracker, 1 shot Ninja, 1 shot Doctor]
1 Maf Encryptor
1 Maf 1shot rolestopper

8 Town Citizen
1 Town 3shot Vanilla cop
1 Town 3shot tracker
1 Town Ascetic JoaT [1 shot Jailkeeper, 1 shot Even-Night Vigilant]
2 Town JoaT [1 shot commuter, 1 shot neighborizor, 1 shot Bodyguard]

Sure, Ascetic too?

ascetic modifier sounds fine - I don't see why not

[pisskop]

Its approved then?

[Performer]

I think it's good

Imp/ircher anything else to add?

[Ircher]

Nothing here.

[pisskop]

cool

sounds like i can enter the queue!

[implosion]

and you're up.