Mini Normal 2080 ft. My Cats [Game Over]

[teacher]

It’s healthier than being a polluted cesspool. What exit?

VOTE: urap. I am not.

[teacher]

Why? Millers are normal and claiming is the right way to play. Claiming also assures lynch before lylo, so don’t see the scum motivation to page one it.

[teacher]

It’s healthier than being a polluted cesspool. What exit?

VOTE: urap. I am not.

142b

what are you not? Idgi

A person. It was weak sauce. So was the exit. I had planned to RVS you, but you bat me to the punch.

Last weekend of grading! Weeeeee

[teacher]

A person. It was weak sauce. So was the exit. I had planned to RVS you, but you bat me to the punch.

Last weekend of grading! Weeeeee

nice! That's gotta feel great
Does summer mean more time for mafia? =P

Maybe. I need to actually get certified, which means four standardized tests. I forget how much of my backgrojnd you know, but I was a big firm lawyer until last August.

Actually the best was last week. I’m at a Jesuit school and all schools in the region take the same history test. My kids placed first - was a confidence builder for a first year.

But I ant to leave because the commute is an hour in 10mph traffic.

(Sorry for the king aside to other players, just excited to share and don want to switch to pm once the game is in effect).

[teacher]

Detective pikachu - just confirming you know alts aren’t allowed to be newbs. It’s come up before and I saw in your first game you said you were a “twin” so thought I’d check.

[teacher]

Nvm. Too many games. Sorry.

[teacher]

Pretty sure Hot for Teacher is Van Halen

Hello boys (that’s my hot nurse outfit. Think of it as white jeans on the hood of a car)

[teacher]

Pika is a very high-ranking member on this site so let's ignore that.

Yea I normally chill in Rome so got confused where I was for a hot sec.

[teacher]

It's not so much that I don't understand how to play a miller it's that I don't understand why I'm a miller and something else.

I think this has to be a role modifier by how you’re talking about it. And there aren’t that many passive normal rolemodifiers. I think I know what and why if true.

[teacher]

I have only played in two normals, so someone please educate me. I would’ve believed that Miller is a role, and not a possible modifier. Is that mistaken?

[teacher]

I don't understand why I'm a miller and

something else.

Why’d you jump in?
Why’d you chop it so it looks like me speaking?

[teacher]

/list.

Urap and cinnamon are town. I don’t know about salad tho. Sounds too healthy.

[teacher]

Woah, jump from TR to vote is pretty aggro and illogical. Care to explain?

[teacher]

care to case me? Just because Im a died-in-the-wool capitalist who TRs Cinnamon's play doesnt quite cut the cheese for me.

[teacher]

hence the question to justify your shade in 216 -- its a statement in search of a reason.

[teacher]

I feel like shade is more lightly calling someone scum or encouraging others to scum read X but not doing any heavy lifting themselves. RN, I feel like you are scum. Am I wrong? Maybe. Am I right? Maybe.

Ok, so we use the word differently (or actually the same, and just disagree on what you are doing).

again, my question asked you to explain your feelz. Can you?

[teacher]

snip

I’m offline tonight for real life but I LOVE this post.

Yes I’m being useless w my vote. It is still on my RVS for familiarity. I haven’t gotten scum tingles yet. Actually the better way to word that is that I feel scum has been active (this hasn’t all felt tvt) but they haven’t localized yet.

I’m town on cinnamon from their reaction to my push on their claim, and on urap and one other (blanking on who rn) for melding on that reaction. I wasn’t crazy about the commie sheeping, but this post totally redeemed you for that point of view.

I’m offline for my last night of real work this semester. I will be back tomorrow. But thank you for this.

[teacher]

Im here, Nero's town.

[teacher]

Anyone want to jam with me about their vorkuta read?

[teacher]

I wonder when Skitter and Teacher get here

How do I get this post over the five that had posted less (literally and figuratively) than I had at this point.

[teacher]

teacher's last post kinda freaked me out. I'm not very used to a guy that I'm scum reading saying that he liked my post. We'll see what he does tonight.

Its why I asked you to case me. I know Im town, but you dont. You were either going for LHF or trying to solve. The case was clear and logical. So I see it as a solve attempt. What's there not to like?

[teacher]

Anyone want to jam with me about their vorkuta read?

ok, how are you reading him?

Struggling. Leaning scum, but mostly by assuming theres is a scum being active and Im town on the other people I think are contributing content. I disagree with you on URAP. I think he was spot on the play with Cinnamon, and shared a valid meta-read on me that I wouldnt expect him to contribute from a scum position.

[teacher]

Anyone want to jam with me about their vorkuta read?

ok, how are you reading him?

Struggling. Leaning scum, but mostly by assuming theres is a scum being active and Im town on the other people I think are contributing content. I disagree with you on URAP. I think he was spot on the play with Cinnamon, and shared a valid meta-read on me that I wouldnt expect him to contribute from a scum position.

ok
a) so is this like a poe-read?
b) do you have stronger scumreads? if not, can i interest you in voting vork?
c) urap townreading vork is kinda ???? weird because i don't really see what's townie there and it's concerning me that his read there differs so wildly from mine
d) you/urap don't really feel tvt i think?

A. Something like that.
B. Not really on stronger scumreads. I was impressed by how many players you claim to have leans on, but maybe you have meta flavor. For example - BuJaber has one post. Why do you lean him town?
Sure on vote. VOTE: Vorkuta
C. I need to go read why URAP did that
D. My interactions with URAP have felt like our usual, at least fmpov. I like him and so wanted to josh.

[teacher]

UNVOTE:
Just because I saw the back of last page and dont know the count.

[teacher]

Dunn? Ive been mostly mobile skimming new posts since Sunday, but nothing about them stuck in my head.

@nom, your right, I went back to the VC. VOTE: Vorkuta

[teacher]

Cool. Salad? I didnt like the jump from a TR to wagon justified as I dont know what Im doing/Normal meta. Then again, Ive only played two normals so they might be right. I def am not beyond null there. And Im surprised by the number of slots I have seen leaning town.

[teacher]

Eh, I dont buy that b/c WIFOM, but fair enough. Anything for me?

[teacher]

Eh, I dont buy that b/c WIFOM, but fair enough. Anything for me?

any spicy townreads you'd like to share?

Nothing spicy. I’ve shared what I felt. Nero/cinnamon/you/urap.

I have had reactions to buj, but want to reread - I think town.

@nom while you’re on who do you town.

[teacher]

Vorkuta (4):

skitter30, Dunnstral, nomnomnom,
teacher

u r a person 2 (2):

Nero Cain, Saladman27

teacher (1):

Cinnamon

nomnomnom (1):

Vorkuta

skitter30 (1):

Detective Pikachu

Detective Pikachu (1):

NerfedBuJ

NerfedBuJ (1):

u r a person 2

Not Voting (2):

EvilDeanius, Flubbernugget

With

13

alive, it takes

7

to hammer.
Day 1 ends in

(expired on 2019-06-22 09:30:00)

Actually add BuJ to my townreads too. That was the slot who put words to what I thought urap and I were already doing in response to the cinnamon push. I also like many of the other posts.

[teacher]

Actually add BuJ to my townreads too. That was the slot who put words to what I thought urap and I were already doing in response to the cinnamon push. I also like many of the other posts.

Can you help me find town here because I think this is scum

otherwise im gonna push it

Ive given my TRs so far. If you have questions, ask. If you disagree, raise it. But I cant help you more than what Ive done without a reaction to play with.

[teacher]

Greetings. One quiick note from my mobile skim -- real life is definitely a thing. I generally post only late at night/early in the morning and had to finish grades. But I dont think my vork vote came out of nowhere -- see, for example, 86

[teacher]

honestly i'm kinda surprised that the wagon didn't go higher - a lot of people have proclaimed vork to be a scumread but have expressed reluctance in actually voting him

I absolutely agree.

Vork started taking off, getting to four votes and Salad indicating interest in going to five, around 587. But then Salad and Nom switch the momentum to me -- for joining them on someone they scumread (and, in noms case, was also voting).

I absolutely agree that same reads=/ same alignment. But the logic here is escaping me. I think I had been pretty clear from the start that I agreed with Cinnamon/Urap/Nerfed's take on the miller claim, and didnt like Vorkuta/Nero's push. Once Nero town-told, my progression to Vork would seem to be natural (as indeed it was). If Nom really had been trying to get inside my head, I think this would have been clear.

As a result, I think Nom's push at me is a bit of counterwagoning from the one other active slot I didnt call out earlier as town or scum.

[teacher]

If he's coached he's not very heavily coached.

Having just come from a nightchat only game... meh

I agree with this reaction. Heavy coaching is pretty rare in the scumthreads I’ve read, even w newbs. And my normal scumroll didn’t have day had so that’s always a possibility.

[teacher]

I was talking about the time where I edited one of his posts to just include the relevant portion of his quote and he was all like "why you'd do that?!?"

For the record, snipping the relevant part wasn’t my issue. My issue is that you snipped it so it looked like I said the relevant part, not cinnamon. But this is long ago under the bridge.

[teacher]

Do you have any original opinions?

Me?

No. I skim and have thoughts, but as not surprising in a 13 person game several have said them before I get to sit down.

Rn I feel good about my townreads/leans but don’t have a solid scumread. I tend not to be able to really get my teeth into a game til I feel a lead. I don’t really have one.

I think the nom-vorkuta associative was original. I also think I was early to TR you, with reasoning at least as opposed to just saying it.

I tend to agree with DP that at least one scum is is the entirely empty slots.

But I’m sitill a bit directionless. And before you start saying ask questions, I don’t generally do make work unless a game is stagnant (this is not). I am a reaction player.

[teacher]

Salad is off meta for me, but my one game with him I was a mod and not a player and there was obv!scum to feel more confident about in general. Anyone else actually played w them before?

[teacher]

Where exactly do I scum Dunn and DP? You’re just wrong there.

I’m null on salad. Like I don’t get his play but don’t have leanings. I don’t like how many have Townes him, but I’m not scum on it.

[teacher]

doesn't really start doing anything until I call him out on p9.

Again, RL is a thing. I had term papers to grade by Tuesday.

Plus, meta me. I think you’ll see I generally don’t get involved until later (unless I have Ic obligations). Burden o being a reaction player.

[teacher]

You are. I am town on Dunn but want them to speak broader than their tunnel, and I liked DPs more recent stuff.

I think you’re letting some confbias seep in - your seeing stuff stuff scum!me could be doing while not evaluating town reasons for the same - like thinking pushing vork or the empty slots is good play from both of them and not wanting to distract from that.

[teacher]

Also I have definitely not Towned nom.

[teacher]

Nero/skitter/nerfed
Cinnamon/Dunn/URaP
Pikachu
——————-
Nom
Salad
—————-
Vork
(Deanius/Flubber)

[teacher]

like thinking pushing vork or the empty slots is good play from both of them and not wanting to distract from that.

[teacher]

Will reiso but that’s going to be the thrust of it.

[teacher]

I’m on vork. I’m staying there because I doubt both Flynn/dean are scum and I think the current pressure is enough to get good reads off then plus I figured given boards reads of me staying off wagon would allow that pressure to grow more easily if need be. If I get a better grasp on those two slots, I likely would move to one of them.

You keep saying I sheeped (first skitter, now mom). The fact is my vork vote was the natural follow on to townreading you. I didn’t even see the votes between skitters invitation and my own because I’m slow on mobile.

[teacher]

Dunn - town for push on vork before popularity and actually having the wim to metachecj it.

[teacher]

Then I’m wrong.

[teacher]

teacher (4):

Cinnamon, Saladman27, nomnomnom,
Nero Cain

EvilDeanius (3):

Detective Pikachu, skitter30,
u r a person 2

Vorkuta (2):

Dunnstral, teacher

Detective Pikachu (1):

NerfedBuJ

Flubbernugget (1):

Vorkuta

Not Voting (2):

EvilDeanius, Flubbernugget

With

13

alive, it takes

7

to hammer.
Day 1 ends in

(expired on 2019-06-22 09:30:00)

DP- after isoing, would actually move above URAP. Can’t call out one thing. I’m liking what they are doing.

[teacher]

I think it means he's taking off the hot nurse uniform and putting on his pajamas

The problem is that since writing hat post I’ve had an urge to watch that music video, but I can’t remember the actual name of the 80s song, just the girl in the video

[teacher]

Too fast or stalling?

[teacher]

Too fast or stalling?

why did you ask this question

Because I had issues with timing as stalling and counterwagonining but the tone suggested too fast. Wanted to be sure I understood their point.

[teacher]

I mean it stalled out fmpov when more people had been scumreading the slot, and then switched pretty fast to me. The pace of it did not feel natural on the way down.

[teacher]

Do you not read what I post?

[teacher]

686 and 694 saying there was a non vorkuta associative should give you a sense. I’m not calling it scum because I’m not sure I’m right on Vork, but if either flip red is really look at this.

[teacher]

Yup generally on all that.

On ED/Flubbber, I don’t believe I’ve ever not seen a game where at least one scum is not on the bottom of the activity levels. If memory serves, when in doubt lynch from the bottom up is TW’s tell. Regardless of who it is I agree.

[teacher]

You are the second person to call me fencesitty. The first was nom, which was at least justifiable since I am null on that slot.

But I don’t think it’s otherwise that consistent w how I’ve played. I came out pretty early on clear town cinnamon and disliking the Miller push. I hardtoened Nero I. Response to his case. I’ve been parked on vorkuta for a while.

Like, sure, I’m acknowledging that I don’t have high confidence levels in my scumread. I’m not going to pretend to be more confident. But i think I’ve been pretty clearly binning players and saying I feel strongly about my towns. I

[teacher]

Yea, salad is moving down. Too many of these “no newb!scum would do THAT” moments, and they’ve continued after he garnered some townreads for it.

[teacher]

Page 12 ego game solve for the post-game brag:

Town: nomnom, cinnamon, skitter, dunn, nero cain, evil D, flubber, vork

Leftovers: urap, saladman, teacher, Pikachu

VOTE: Pikachu

Now that pikachu has been producing content, are you still here?

[teacher]

There's

You win. White snake. Thanks.

[teacher]

Nero can you talk bout urap?

[teacher]

sure.

What do you want me to say about him?

Explain your read. I haven’t seen much solves from him. I mean, I liked how he played the start and read into me and where his vote is, so I lean him town but I normally expect more push/presence.

[teacher]

I’d appreciate it later. Have a good night.

[teacher]

But I’m sitill a bit directionless. And before you start saying ask questions, I don’t generally do make work unless a game is stagnant (this is not). I am a reaction player.

Kind of curious how you work with reactions when playing mafia given your schedule doesnt seem to give you a lot of time to post with people in real time

I don’t meab, not generally need, real time reactions. I mean I react to what was put out there between my posts. I react to that and put my take out there. I have not really had an issue with it - I’ve only been mislynched once this far, because I generally sink my teeth in as the day progresses and more info outs.

[teacher]

Urap you around?

[teacher]

i can see buj sincerely believing that policying the miller claim day before lylo is optimal

(i just saw him park on someone he was townreading because they claimed scum so)

I guess. That whole post pings me tho. Like, the idea of rushing a post in the middle of the meeting to make sure your town read gets out there a week or whatever before eod? I see a scum motivation for that, but not really a town one outside of exuberance for playing the game~

I could see scum wanting to make sure they were out ahead of them becoming a consensus town read for credit tho

do you think I'm way off base here?

I do. I think you’re taking one posy in iso and not the body of work. I’d like you to speak again on this slot.

Also ignore who Nero is pushing and focus on how they’re doing it. It’s +town.

[teacher]

^one posT in iso.

[teacher]

VOTE: deanius

[teacher]

kinda feel like scum are

urap
teacher
dp

Kinda feel like you’ve been in tunnels most of the day. Rereading your iso I have no idea who you town. Can you speak on that?

[teacher]

Why is deanius town?

[teacher]

And why am I scum now? Yes, I get I took sun-Tuesday essentially off. But what you’re saying is that you nailed the whole scumread in the first 200 posts and the following 700 don’t really matter or confirm it.

Have you ever actually solved a full game that early? I know for sure I have tried, but have never actually done so.

[teacher]

Seriously, give me a weighted board read - who do you fully town? Who do you only lean? Etc. that dodge of an answer simply preserves your flexibility.

[teacher]

I feel like he's scum's last-minute designated ML and I remember liking some of his posts.

What about the deadline being seven days away makes this feel “last minute”???

[teacher]

Why can't I nail the who scumteam in the first 200 posts?

I think I usually have some fairly accurate early reads

Nothing says you can’t. Except my experience trying.

If you’ve done it, link.

If you haven’t, why not also try to help town find town?

[teacher]

I’m not voting you today. I would actually like sheep you if you weren’t on me. I like your thought process on both me and urap and want to use it against my own townreads which is where the question in started from. I wanted you to towncase a few people.

[teacher]

As for after today, everything is open game. We will have a lot more info after 1-2 flips, wagon and vca.

[teacher]

You voted him Sunday, while I was offline. I was only townreading you once I got back Tuesday. And you had never actually provided reasons until I asked for them.

[teacher]

(Yesterday). I dont sheep people, I sheep people with reasons.

Can you clarify what you are saying about nom? I don’t follow.

Can you pick out the posts of deanius you liked?

[teacher]

I liked that you called out early posts, which justified your early read. I liked that it showed a consistent focus on how a player was using their vote - a consistent scunhuntubg mindset. I liked some of the analysis on his wording - even as I disagree with it and view it as playstyle rather than alignment.

You’ve shown me how you think. It is consistent. And it is an approach I do not have so it can help me.

[teacher]

Eh on 918. To me the first quote is purely mechanical game theory, and the second is nearly the same. I mean if I were more sold on vork town, I would give it more town points, but since I’m not I don’t.

[teacher]

As for uraps answers to your case, I thought they were fair sauce too. Like him, I’m ignoring the parts where you have us paired because I know at least part of that is off. I can vouch that his “how should I vote” response is meta consistent, though he didn’t get that question in the one scumgame I have read.

The one thing I didn’t like was the lack of response to passivity.

[teacher]

He is not. He is my weakest townlean. I am used to him being a stronger more active player, but I like what he has done in terms of pushing against the miller push (he led that), and not letting me go easily. What you see as svs defense I see as town indicative because he is sharing accurate meta on me and he knows I can be a good town player so I don’t think he would white knight/resist as hard as he has been doing.

[teacher]

And why am I scum now?

[teacher]

I don’t get the question?

[teacher]

I’d be willing to put more pressure on his slot. I’m fairly convinced your town. I know I am. I only think URaP is. I don’t mind voting there for pressure and seeing what results.

In all, I think town has been successfully divided, no wagon has gotten above four. I think some form of bridge building is called for. It’s also why I’m trying to get you to re-examine me.

I don’t know if that answers your question. If that’s what you mean?

[teacher]

I would actually like sheep you if you weren’t on me.

so I took this as you'd sheep urap if I changed to him.

Who all would you sheep me on?

Most slots. My readslist from a while back remains pretty accurate. . I’d like to see a vorkuta wagon again. I feel like their presence has disappeared with their wagon, like they are flying under the radar and don’t want To get attention again. But that’s nowhere you are going.

On your list, I’m probably not going skitter or DP. Skitter I townlean and is never a good D1 lynch. DP I think has contributed more than several slots have given them credit for.

I could see us together on urap, flubber, and a couple others.

[teacher]

Cinnamon, try to build a mindset/personality for the person. Then see if future posts are consistent with that. The consistency of the case on me and on urap means they are genuinely trying to solve, even if “the solve” doesn’t accord w your own.

[teacher]

teacher why flubber? I thought their recent posts weren't the bests so I'd be willing to explore that wagon but I want to hear your reasoning

It’s basically that. Not much in the recent posts felt searching/hunting, and there was no presence before that. The spare of posts looked like activity for activity’s sake. The best were 847 and 850 and they weren’t that great. It’s. Place where someone I think is town and I could overlap, and that’s what I think is impt right now.

Anything else in particular you want to explore?

[teacher]

Urap you around?

kinda what's up

See 897

Also I filled in my reasoning on Nero that was at the tail end of that.

[teacher]

Alright all, I’ve got to crash. My closing request is for Dunn to talk about reads on three slots that are not Vork. I don’t care town or scum, but give some reasons, please.

[teacher]

I feel like he's scum's last-minute designated ML and I remember liking some of his posts.

What about the deadline being seven days away makes this feel “last minute”???

I liked that you called out early posts, which justified your early read. I liked that it showed a consistent focus on how a player was using their vote - a consistent scunhuntubg mindset. I liked some of the analysis on his wording - even as I disagree with it and view it as playstyle rather than alignment.

You’ve shown me how you think. It is consistent. And it is an approach I do not have so it can help me.

[teacher]

Don’t know why the first quote appeared. Sorry. The second quote was to respond to urap. It’s not the style, it’s the consistency in form of case.

[teacher]

More picking in things that I see as personality. He has expectations of players that are consistent.

It’s a pretty detailed narrative to come up with on the spot when asked and have be the same.

[teacher]

You quiero Taco Bell.

And now I’m really out.

[teacher]

F’ing mobile autofill

[teacher]

I don't think his day 1 reads are typically above random so being 0/3 in his first 3 pushes isn't really out of form.

ok now I'm butthurt at you as well

-I build up my town block BEFORE scumhunting and my pushes primarily serve to build up a townblock first
-7 completed non-newbie town games
-Jazz D1 (most recent) readlist- 2 for 2 @D1

Whose your townblock then. Last is see is 553’s non-read list.

[teacher]

@DP can you sell me on nom?

[teacher]

Yes.

Why not when I ask? What benefit do you see in waiting?

[teacher]

Nero since your on and still haven’t answered my question from yesterday, why am I scum? I liked 265 but the game has, in corks words, tons of analysis since then, so presumably it has confirmed your views? How?

[teacher]

You haven’t been in the spotlight since Wednesday.

[teacher]

That’s not answering my question. Ok you’re tunneled on me. Why?

[teacher]

I think scum has voted me. I am less sure about whether scum is voting me.

If being useless with vote is such a big deal for you, why are you resisting ED, who iirc has not voted all game?

[teacher]

And absolutely nothing of interest has happened since then

React to DP’s towncase on urap? Or Nero’s scumcase and uraps response?

[teacher]

I thought vork had voted me but went back after saying that. I do believe scum has voted me and my pick for that slot is nom, which is why I’m asking many slots about then. They are germttibg townread by slots I townread so I need to see the reasoning behind that.

[teacher]

By the way, just to dispel any questions, my multiple typos and random caps are fat fingers on a small screen and not any convoluted crumbs. I’m sorry for them - I generally think the gist gets across but if anything is too indecipherable just ask.

[teacher]

Right, but being useful with it does require, well, using it, no?

[teacher]

@nero, what do you think of dps towncase on urap? I have to say I found it pretty convincing compared to the scum game of his I read (Draco hydra)

[teacher]

I’m talking about dean being useless w his vote, not you.

Talk to me about your townread of Vork? Is it that he is just mislynch bait in your meta experience, or is there something else?

[teacher]

Nero/skitter/nerfed
Cinnamon/Dunn/URaP
Pikachu
——————-
Nom
Salad
—————-
Vork
(Deanius/Flubber)

Pikachu/urap/Nero
Skitter/nerfed/cinnamon
—-
Salad/Dunn
nom
——-
Vork
Dean/Flubber

Updated. In town, the one I am most unsure about is needed, but it’s higher than cinnamon on just content and participation. I really need Dunn to get outside of their tunnel, and salad to start voting and hunting.. I need urap to speak on nom. I want vorkuta to actually provide reads and get back into the game. And I don’t like how much resistance dean is getting.

[teacher]

Yup

[teacher]

Pika you still around?

[teacher]

Town	Buj, skitter, Vork
Townlean	Cinn, nom, DP , Teach
Neutral	Nero, Flubber, Deanius, Urap
Scumlean	Dunn
Scum

Dunn is scumlean cause he still SRs vork despite that we established that vork is annoying but genuine, which is why vork is town. Sorry for the late response, I was commuting.

You realize there are three scum right?

[teacher]

Presumably you are as well

There’s actually nobody in that list for me I wouldn’t lynch. Preference order:
Deanius:Vork:Flubber

I find skitters read on me kinda hard to believe considering her comments the last time we played together.

[teacher]

Have to find it. You said something about an activity level tell.

[teacher]

Do tell

When's rhe last time we played together?

This line, though a bit ago. Followed up in 381 in the same game.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10592516

[teacher]

I can’t speak on that. I haven’t rolled scum since before that game, at least as an original player. Newb 1923(?) was a replacement into a known!scum slot that had been jailkept the night before to the extent that helps.

[teacher]

Do tell

When's rhe last time we played together?

This line, though a bit ago. Followed up in 381 in the same game.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10592516

oh wow, this really does seem to be a thing; i'd forgotten, sorry
ok

couple of follow-up questions:

a) i noticed that urap was in a bunch of games with you - what's his read accuracy on you like?
b) this might be a weird question - why do u think u died so often fairly early on in newbie games?

I’ve always rolled town w him. He reads me as town in most games, but hedges. He has a fairly accurate capture of me as a person.

I have never been mislynched outside lylo. I also think I’m decently charismatic - particularly in the newb queue acting as a greeter. I tend to default into a leader type roll that gets targeted - either with docs or nks. I play as town as I can and let the chips fall where they may. I trust even in my death I can be avenged. I’m still salty over my loss to MJL as solo scum after I lead a day 1 scum lynch and was nk’ed tho.

[teacher]

Show, can you sell your slot as town other than being the compromise lynch target? Like most of what I saw prior to your rep was mech/theory talk that didn’t interact. Others have asked you and you’re resisting answering. That, plus the incredibly strong 3D party performance in the Starcraft series is giving me the heebies about your entrance.

[teacher]

you might want to replace ED in the votecounts above and future ones.

[teacher]

somewhere between nullscum and scumlean

why am i town

On urap, I found DP’s read to be convincing and consistent with my in-game and meta experience with urap scum. It was especially powerful after seeing DP save the game with an ability to read urap in 2071. What don’t you buy about uraps natural towning of players.

[teacher]

I'm adding Nero/Vorkuta to the list of town.

Talk to me about vork.

[teacher]

Is vork being wagoned for being scummy or annoying

Scummy. Acceptance of Nero’s buddying. Push on miller claim to establish baseline presence then disappearing to fly under radar.

[teacher]

You know actually I think this is the post I was thinking of. I couldn't find it in vork's iso cause flubber wrote it lol. I must have been pretty out of it yesterday morning

I've done this

it's worrying to me that we're so far apart on this read tho. Is there anything that you scum read in his iso? Otherwise, I'll town case him later

This id like to see as well (the towncase)

[teacher]

I'd guess at least one scum in Pika/U2.

If so, I’d go urap but I need an explanation.

[teacher]

I don’t think you’ll be around to find out.

[teacher]

also @teacher i asked why you think u usually die in newbies because as of rn i don't think u've played in a way that would lead u to being a prime nk target this game so i was wondering what the difference might be

I was absent during the start of the game and I was playing more games (3) at the same time than I ever have on site. I also tend to like 9 and a teaching role - neither of which are present here. I venture out of the newb queue primarily to play with people I like or if I think it’s unlikely I’m going to get involved in a game there soon. I also rarely attract early attention the way I did here - I establish myself first. Here, I think Nero established me as a scumread and I’ve been playing a bit against that rather than just doing my own thing. I also tend to come up with stronger scumcases earlier than I have here. Some combination of all of that.

[teacher]

You think I'm scum, teacher?

See my vote.

[teacher]

I'm adding Nero/Vorkuta to the list of town.

Talk to me about vork.

[teacher]

@nero, what do you think of dps towncase on urap? I have to say I found it pretty convincing compared to the scum game of his I read (Draco hydra)

You haven’t answered this.

[teacher]

Ok. Why was vork town before that?

[teacher]

I’ve always rolled town w him. He reads me as town in most games, but hedges. He has a fairly accurate capture of me as a person.

im gonna assume you just forgot my first scum game

I was talking my rolls, not yours, which is what skitter asked.

[teacher]

how'd they miss you for paragon

Ftw.

@sho - we’ve only played once together and you misread me that game too. And hardtowned scum. here (also 955/960).

[teacher]

I kinda want to move salad back to town, it's not 100% lock but this is like a pretty impressive job of emulating his towngame if he's scum.

Teacher would you mind linking your scum games?

Will do. The only full-game one was normal 2016

[teacher]

I'm starting to wonder if there's scum in the mire active players

I guess i'm also starting to lose my townread on nero

Can you analyze nom for me. I just searched the game for nom* and other than the early frustration at the lack of traction for the vork wagon, I’m not seeing much reason for the town reads there. They are my “more active” scum pick that I’m not going to go to today, but want to get more analysis of.

@urap I suppose this goes for you as well, given your taf read.

[teacher]

I'm removing Nero from list of town.

Can you sell me on vork?

[teacher]

Again, the same question Nero dodges: why was seven days before deadline “last minute”?

[teacher]

Again, the same question Nero dodges: why was seven days before deadline “last minute”?

Scummy question from Teacher. Nitpicking pointless stuff, missing the bigger picture.

Can’t answer so throws shade.

Can’t answer vork.

You’ve called me scum multiple times. Sell it.

[teacher]

And I disagreed and still find you scummy.

[teacher]

Lurker who made few game relevant comments. How hard it was/is to pick up wagon on slot. Mostly townreading the wagon.

On your analysis, walking through that wall is more than I want to do on mobile, so that will get kicked to tonight.

Why is vork town?

[teacher]

3. Who are you town reading on the wagon, and why are you assuming these players are automatically correct about ED's alignment?

DP, urap, cinnamon, Flubber. Most of the wagon.

And yes you can comment on how hard it is to build a wagon regardless of whether it is the biggest. The time/momentum it has is a real thing.

I have no issue changing my reads. You just haven’t done anything to change them.

FFS why aren’t you answering the vork question.

[teacher]

I talk about myself a lot in all my games, nothing scummy about that.

This is valid.

[teacher]

Ok, so now your “I’m not voting you” excuse is gone. Why am I scum?

[teacher]

Thanks for the reasons. FWIW, 1 is off. I’ve never lurked, even when I’ve replaced out. In that game I PMed the mod the second time I logged on (real life day 2 of the game) and saw 20 pages of posts - I couldn’t keep up with the game. The fact that I wasn’t replaced until days later has no bearing on when I requested replacement, and I couldn’t post after the request. I never lurked out of a game. And I find doing so scummy. There is no similarity between my play that game and how ED hung into the slot and made up a readslist that never existed.

2. I did not find your replacement town indicative. I think you likely did townread the slot. Uraps take on your case is similar to mine - you may have thought it but that doesn’t make it right. Nor do I find your activity levels towny. You are selectively slicing and refusing to answer straightforward questions (ahem, vork). And reading the whole game is BS. I’ve seen scum do that many many times. If anything, I think it’s more +scum, but generally treat it as NAI.

3. I have given reasons. You find them illegitimate. I will answer in more detail when I’m not mobileposting, just as I said. Not recognizing real life limitations - that I post in late evening early morning - is scummy coming from you who claims such familiarity with my play. In my view, you’re trying to chip away at the townblock that has already taken too long to form this game.

4. This isn’t something I can respond to. You think I’m lacking depth. Ok.

[teacher]

What do you say to someone mentioning that teacher is easily read by post count?

They're incorrect. Teacher's activity depends on how busy he is, which itself turns on what's happening in his teaching career. It has nothing to do with his alignment. If he says otherwise, he's lying.

I am sortable by post count. Yes my activity depends on real life. But I don’t have motivation in scum games. I’ve played 3 and all have lower posts. It’s something I’m aware of for next time I roll, but it is a true tell.

[teacher]

DP, urap, cinnamon, Flubber. Most of the wagon.

Why is Flubb town?

Why is U2 town?

What's your read on Nom?

Answer the vork question.

[teacher]

Lurker who made few game relevant comments. How hard it was/is to pick up wagon on slot. Mostly townreading the wagon.

On your analysis, walking through that wall is more than I want to do on mobile, so that will get kicked to tonight.

Why is vork town?

Same as ED how?

[teacher]

You sifted too many times for me to believe it. Like I’m still inviting so others could discuss but I don’t believe you.

I do think it makes you not the day one lynch, however.

VOTE: unvote

[teacher]

I will be on after the kids go down.

[teacher]

Why wouldn’t you wait so that others can discuss this new info. It is not terrible at all. Like I’m saying treat it as scum, force it to give public results tomorrow, and work on associatices like your vork thought.

[teacher]

@Vork but again, I'm fairly sure you never vote this.

I already know that if she flips scum, you must be scum with her. Voting her is a death wish from you. It will never happen. I don't expect it anyway.

So why, oh, why, isnt the solution to lynch vork?

Seriously, like if youre so strong on associatives, why not lynch it? At least that way you have covered the chance youre wrong and allowed the cop 1-night, or forced scum to kill the cop.

@Shos: I know your questions are still pending. I will answer them. Had to get my kids down, and now gotta sort through a bunch of crap. But I for one will not stand for the lack of modifier/2d role discussion. If youre scared enough to claim, you claim in full. The modifiers make a difference for how all slots play around your claim.

@URaP - why the jump to not counter? Isnt trading a PR for a scum always worth it?

5th PEDIT - I give up and will read after post.

[teacher]

@shoshin were you scum reading nero for his early push onto cinn, or did you have him as town for a time?

I'll just take you at your word because I don't want to go look but if you were town reading him, then why is him pushing you now so much worse than that?

She had towned him, but withdrew that around 1250ish (preclaim)

[teacher]

Yea, I absolutely agree with you Nom. Like to the point that I think I always scumread shos. But The aggravating (and unjustified) confidence is personality not alignment. I had been on her for the slot history and the wagon. She is saying accuratea things about her meta.

[teacher]

Holy shit the tunneling this game is real

Spoiler:

Talk to me about vork.

I'm adding Nero/Vorkuta to the list of town.

Talk to me about vork.

Ok. Why was vork town before that?

Can you sell me on vork?

Can’t answer vork.

Why is vork town?

FFS why aren’t you answering the vork question.

Answer the vork question.

So why, oh, why, isnt the solution to lynch vork?

Yes, I have a scumread on you. Yes, over the course of five of those posts Shoshin wasnt answering my question, so I kept asking it. Asking the same question of the same slot is real. I scumread her and saw the failure to answer as indicative (I know town!her sometimes refuses, but Im not willing to give that a pass or not scumread anti-town behavior)).

[teacher]

because nk

Herein lies the problematic assumption.

[teacher]

There can be more than one cop, U2.

In a 13p game?! This is about the scummiest thing youve said in this entire interchange.

[teacher]

Shos, I know you softed, but did you role crumb at all? (also, Im still going back to your questions, but every fracking time I get one post in, its a page later and I have to click through 4 rounds of PEDITS)

[teacher]

did you role crumb at all?

give me a break teacher no one crumbs role when at l-3 with no other wagons as a pr replacing into a game, all you do in that situation is try to get the wagon off you and try to figure out who you're going to replace as the consensus lynch without fucking it up and hitting town

She sure as hell softed at that point, IN THIS GAME. What the fuck are you talking about dont crumb role with those facts.

[teacher]

I disagree. I think if you are nervous enough to soft, you should crumb to give your claim believability if/when it is needed. Like, Im not going there today, but I do think it would be the logical play. It would certainly answer Nom;s "changing claim" attack, which is why I asked it.

[teacher]

Like, Im not going there today

I agree on it not being AI, I just figured I would ask in case you did.

[teacher]

Like, Im not going there today

I agree on it not being AI, I just figured I would ask in case you did.

Crap, I just pulled a Nero. I was quoting myself to show I already thought it wasnt AI, but just asking. The first nested quote is from me, not Shos.

[teacher]

@Nom - really I mean it now. Tell me why, in your world with the associatives you have created, you are resistant to going Vork for the day?

Regardless of Shos! alignment, how does it not benefit town?

Town!shos, who has claimed Odd-night [something] cop gets a chance to do her thing. She has to be NK'ed to prevent it. She can (a) be steered to a consensus slot worthy of investigation, and (b) either NK'ed to prevent a slot, or (c) saved to prevent a death if the associative flips green.

Scum!shos can be investigated through the associatives, and has to out some form of result that can be confirmed or debunked tomorrow.

Like Im not seeing the urgency for a D1 lynch with this claim. It is not today.

[teacher]

@Nom - really I mean it now. Tell me why, in your world with the associatives you have created, you are resistant to going Vork for the day?

Regardless of Shos! alignment, how does it not benefit town?

Town!shos, who has claimed Odd-night [something] cop gets a chance to do her thing. She has to be NK'ed to prevent it. She can (a) be steered to a consensus slot worthy of investigation, and (b) either NK'ed to prevent a slot, or (c) saved to prevent a death if the associative flips green.

Scum!shos can be investigated through the associatives, and has to out some form of result that can be confirmed or debunked tomorrow.

Like Im not seeing the urgency for a D1 lynch with this claim. It is not today.

Because I know she has 0% chances of flipping town.

Making this slot flip makes town win the game on the spot.

Ok, you have that degree of confidence. I do not. So given where you are, why not form the consensus that is in line with your reads and still accomplishes the goal.

[teacher]

@URAP, I dont know if they have been Overtaken By Events, but Im still looking for the Vork/Nom town cases.

[teacher]

formally opposing shoshin wagon

[teacher]

But tomorrow (a) Town!shos is dead or saved; (b) scum!shos is alive and outs results that can be confirmed (with a possible side benefit of scum! holstering the NK).

No, Vork's lynch does not amount to Sho's lynch. But if you believe the associatives youve claimed, you should view it as an effective way to investigate while covering the 0.001% chance youre wrong (which I see as higher).

[teacher]

What is the scum team where the only two people you could accuse scum!vorkuta of pocketing are me and nero?

In this world, Vork+Shos + (Buj?)

I dont see the fight with Buj as real.

[teacher]

@Vork, to be honest, I dont want you lynched today either RN. I havent reevaluated the post-claim world. Im just playing with Nom's mindset and trying to understand why she wouldnt cover the risk of error.

[teacher]

Youre good, I was more leaving that for when you make the case so you could know my reaction.

Im going to try not to keep hitting f5 and go back to the pile.

I lean towards believing the claim. In part because I dont. Here Im trying to learn my lesson from the last time I played with Shos, where I denied even a neap clear on her because I didnt like how she played that much. I get where you are coming from on tone, Nom, but like I (and Skitter) said, I think alot of her tone is playstyle.

I dont like how she came in, but I cant see a reason why that would be the lynch for today and think she is eminently sortable based on flips and actions tomorrow.

[teacher]

This is a contradictory statement

triggered

ok nom is wrong&bruisedego!town
I invoke "too bad to be scum" with regards to that slot

"I don't believe that claim"
"therefore it must be true"

are contradictory statements.

I never said must be true. I said inclined to believe. Like 60/40. Like I said earlier, much of what shoshin has said about her playstyle is true. Skitter is saying the same. Your reasons on her are more playstyle, which I view as NAI. Like I scumread her, but I've misread her. Yes, I want to cover my ass by not lynching a cop claim that I am uncertain on. I get youre certain. Kudos. Im not. So go back to building a consensus alternative because from the several posts (Skitter, me, Vork, others), Shoshin isnt happening today.

[teacher]

Cop claim is solid info. Behavior is playstyle, and I incorrectly read shos's playstyle. Like Im working my way back to her questions, but everything she did is consistent with a cop claim, and still NAI because I could see her building to that regardless. She's not today's lynch. I focus on mechanics because thats the way my mind works.

[teacher]

teacher btw did u notice that i voted u a few pages back?

I did. Was going to ask about that after the activity tell, but I figured its like Shoshin's questions I still am owing answers too -- reading her as town and hunting on her wagon. I figure Ill answer her questions then chat w you about it.

[teacher]

It was not asked. Im not certain. I think Im ok going there. I had an early strong townread, but see demotivation over the course of the game. I want to answer your questions and then reread the game assuming town!you (and no, to be honest, I dont assume town!you, but think thats the best way to get through the day).

Im making no commitments at this point. I do think if you get Pika/skitter/Cinn somewhere, Im likely as not to follow.

[teacher]

VOTE: deanius

Awful vote from Teacher. As bad as Flubb's vote on Nom. The timing is especially opportunistic if you assume Pika's town.

Assume town!me. Assume my towncore (that I had publicly disclosed) was Pika + URaP. Assume I scumread your slot.

Now why is that an awful vote?

[teacher]

Sorry wife came home. Going to be back on now, but have to do two thingsss.

[teacher]

Why did you suspect ED? Why do you find me scummy? Why do you disagree with my analysis on ED?

I answered the first one in real time. Lurker, hard to get momentum on. Liked the people voting him.

The second is pretty straightforward. You were trying to avoid the lynch like 8 different ways. I could go through and ISO posts if you want, but I think thats water under the bridge at this point, as I think youll agree you demonstrated hard survivalism. survivalism=scummy. Plus, all these things you say you always do - I tend to think theyre scummy. They may not be for you, so I have to recalibrate, but they are in general for me. Finally, you were pushing slots that I either know to be town or that I hard town as your escape technique.

Third, I think you way overread ED's ISO. Like your excerpts from 149 and 222 and 557 (or 3/8 your case) are purely mechanical thoughts. You see town motives. I dont. In fact, I can see scum motives -- 149 and 222 happened at a time that the miller PL was already being resisted, and 557 was a rando pop in that any alignment can make in their sleep. And 841 presents a town lynchpool, regardless of tone.

[teacher]

In general, his play & thought process is lacking in depth. I can't point to a single post from him that shows the level of thinking that I've seen from town Teacher, even in games where town Teacher is lurking. The absence of in-depth thinking is strongly scum indicative for this slot.

I didnt respond to this in real time, but should now. FWIW, Ive switched how I play to accommodate my new life. Im almost entirely a mobile poster now, whereas before I was heavily computer. You can see this in my ability (or not) to type from our last game to this. I do think it makes my analysis more shallow, since I dont have about eight tabs and an open spreadsheet. I also have more fun, even if Im not quite doing as much.

[teacher]

DP, urap, cinnamon, Flubber. Most of the wagon.

Why is Flubb town?

Why is U2 town?

What's your read on Nom?

Flubb -- I had been keeping them in scum as a mostly empty slot. I towned them as I scummed you, as I dont think 2 scum lurk in with a town this disjointed. Plus, I liked Pika/Skitters take of "impolitic". When two players I both town and respect start townreading a slot that I am scumreading purely for lurking, Im willing to reexamine. That 'impolitic' PoV added to his defense of Town!me, because I dont see scum!Flubb being both impolitic and whiteknighting. I liked his addition of the rolefishing part of the case on EvilDeanius - he had legit reasons to be joining the wagon. Finally, much as you dont like the nom vote in 857, I dont think scum calls out their own latent contradiction in the manner that flubb did in 863.

U2 -- organic townreads/Pika's revelation that gave me my towncore.

Nom -- I didnt have one (nor on Vork). Its why I played so much with them after your claim, and why I left them off that list.

[teacher]

In my view, you’re trying to chip away at the townblock that has already taken too long to form this game.

What's the townblock? I didn't see any.

There wasnt a townblock. But I felt one forming in DP/URAP/Me/Skitter. Like I town them, DP towned URaP, URaP towned me, and Skitter's skitter. I felt good about where the game was going around this time.

[teacher]

You kinda sound like a certain scum named Crunch from my earlier game but less agressive...

This is just hilarious as the mod of that game. Capn was obvious scum. Like OBVIOUS.

[teacher]

Off to site-meta ED.

[teacher]

Off to site-meta ED.

I guess I shouldnt be surprised that all 3 of the games he posted in are still ongoing. So cant talk about my thoughts. Sorry for raising.

[teacher]

Could someone do a BuJ read. Nothing other than being the first to apply logic words to the Miller claim sticks out in my memory and I have to ISO them every time I try to read. I dont like how they didnt try at all to sort around the claim and wagon. I really dont like the PiKa tunnel since that was towntold like 8 years ago. I dont like the lack of any case on me, and the lack of any explanation for his evolution on ED town to ED scum-but-for-wagon that appears at multiple points - providing impetus without shifting.

[teacher]

@nero - what do you think of noms theory that vork and shos share alignments?

[teacher]

I didn’t see it last night, and I haven’t had time to think about it today. I will do tonight.

[teacher]

I know exactly how you feel, Nom. I'm trying to bring the town together onto a scum lynch but it's been a struggle.

This is my problem with you. This feels hella like taunting scum. Like tonally that’s what it is. But I honestly believe this tone is just you being you.

And yes, I k is there is a Nero question pending.

[teacher]

It was not asked. Im not certain. I think Im ok going there. I had an early strong townread, but see demotivation over the course of the game. I want to answer your questions and then reread the game assuming town!you (and no, to be honest, I dont assume town!you, but think thats the best way to get through the day).

Im making no commitments at this point. I do think if you get Pika/skitter/Cinn somewhere, Im likely as not to follow.

Shos I did answer your Nero question.

(Frack I had a looong post here that I lost in three predicts and now shall forevermore lack)

[teacher]

At this point we’re basically lynching around Shos alignment. If you assume scum Shos, Vork should be the lynch since Shos not going through.

If you assume town Shos, I don’t get why Flubber is the better lynch candidate that Nero or me to be honest.

And that tells me where to go, though I see a lot of what skitter is saying.

VOTE: vork

[teacher]

This is not scum. Like not a chance.

We have 2.5 days. Yes people are adrenaline’s out after the drama of the claim last night. But there is still time to find a lynch that doesn’t scream compromise because who gives a fuck anymore. That’s what the tone of this room and like 8 votes are. And it’s fucking gross.

[teacher]

man, im tired of the day.


Why do you think im a good lynch?

I agree on tired.

And I don’t have a good case on you. Like I can make one from the lower energy levels and the sheep to nom now, but I don’t really buy it. That’s why my vote went the other way.

I’m not sure we will end on scum but ending the day right hear and now feels like a capitulation. To that.

[teacher]

I'm not actually lynching around Sho's alignment. That, and slots connected to it will resolve or be easier to read over the next day or two one way or the other or the other or the other

Than why flubbsoe again?

[teacher]

I'm not actually lynching around Sho's alignment. That, and slots connected to it will resolve or be easier to read over the next day or two one way or the other or the other or the other

Than why flubbsoe again?

If it’s just tossing randomly useless people overboard, I’d much rather salad.

[teacher]

Dude don’t case him again. I remember it from the first time round.

[teacher]

Just the speed with which that became the duck it end this day lynch was like unreal. Even though today’s lynch is going to feel bad basically no matter what, it doesn’t mean that shouldn’t be taken into account.

[teacher]

Fair, I did. I suppose I meant people that are just surrendering.

[teacher]

You don’t think I know I’m provoking fate by arguing to extend the day a little more when I’m on the bottom of most readslists and hard defending the consensus wagon?

That’s how this feels. Like the Sho wagon gave up the ghost and went to whatever was largest and being pushed at the time. And that doesn’t feel good.

[teacher]

I specifically disclaimed the taunting scum argument. I was explaining why I have such issues with Shoshone playstyle, not making a scum argument.

Pedit:this is at Dunn like 10 posts ago now.

[teacher]

You don’t think I know I’m provoking fate by arguing to extend the day a little more when I’m on the bottom of most readslists and hard defending the consensus wagon?

That’s how this feels. Like the Sho wagon gave up the ghost and went to whatever was largest and being pushed at the time. And that doesn’t feel good.

if that happened, wouldn't that have been nero? That was definitely the most loudly pushed wagon

Loudly pushed by the town!sho people, which is not where I’d expect the sho wagon to go.

VOTE: salad

[teacher]

Quote game advancing content from salad, urap. Please.

I can from Flubber with ease - the Deanius rolefish argument.

[teacher]

Not lynching today: sho, skitter, DP, nom, cinnamon

Would hammer if absolutely required: urap, Nero, flubb

Willing to lynch: salad, vork, BuJ, Dunn

That’s where I’m at.

[teacher]

^the order within roles is stream of consciousness rather than weighted.

[teacher]

*rows

[teacher]

The issue is you present all as hyper confident. You’re always Goddess Shoshin. Even when you’re not.

I have no doubt you’re good. But you oversell that goodness and so lose some of its lustre.