Mini Normal 2080 ft. My Cats [Game Over]

[Detective Pikachu]

I am Town Detective Pikachu and I have a night 0 guilty on skitter30.

VOTE: skitter30

[Detective Pikachu]

Hmm that does present quite a mystery. My mason detective partner, Harry Goodman, also went missing night 0.... But was it from your pgo action, or was he murdered by skitter? All I have for clues are cathairs and glowing cowbells. Quite tricky that it's page 1 and we have two outed killers!

[Detective Pikachu]

ah yes, me and skitter go way back. She used to be part of the force too, old school gumshoe. But something went wrong a long while back... We were investigating a criminal wrestling operation as part of a joint operation and somehow she ended up in a cage match as part of the undercover work. I don't remember exactly what why or how, but she ended up on top of the cage vs. this character called the Undertaker. I don't know if it was part of the act, but The Undertaker threw her 15 feet down and she broke through an announcer's table.

I guess if she is the one who killed Harry, her descent into an evil backstory must have started there

[Detective Pikachu]

This isn't rvs! This is a night 0 guilty. Skitter killed someone in pregame

For shame, sir, to imply that my vote is just random

[Detective Pikachu]

should we let the pair of you self resolve

Kind of a weird sentiment for page two there, Mr. Cigar.

@Skitter, can you kindly

Aghast! This is very similar to the wording of Dr. Yi Suchong, the evil hypnotist! Have you been subjected to the hypnotizing hypnotism of one of Suchong's Hypnos?

[Detective Pikachu]

Pretty sure Hot for Teacher is Van Halen

[Detective Pikachu]

Are you hardclaiming town spicy rabbit?

[Detective Pikachu]

I didn't realize Spicy was a role modifier. "Cinnamon Miller." Does that mean that the booze is spicy too?

[Detective Pikachu]

With my expert detective work I have determined that nero and teacher are not s/s

Cinnamon (3):

Vorkuta, Flubbernugget, Nero Cain

teacher (1):

u r a person 2

u r a person 2 (1):

teacher

skitter30 (1):

Detective Pikachu

EvilDeanius (1):

nomnomnom

No Lynch (1):

Cinnamon

Not Voting (5):

NerfedBuJ, skitter30, Saladman27, Dunnstral, EvilDeanius

With

13

alive, it takes

7

to hammer.
Day 1 ends in

(expired on 2019-06-22 09:30:00)

[Detective Pikachu]

Spoiler:

[Detective Pikachu]

Have you seen a movie where the protagonist's big break is actually just getting fucked

This is a classy forum, we don't discuss that genre of film

[Detective Pikachu]

Pretty sure nomnom should vote someone other than bujaber

[Detective Pikachu]

i know you're an alt but can you give me a ballpark of how many games we've played together: one, some, a lot, etc?

or not even that but how well you know my game?

I've played with you enough that sorting you day 1 is my #1 priority, let's say that

also... uh, you should know it's at least one given [reasons you should be able to figure out]

[Detective Pikachu]

nero is kinda townie i think
urap i'm kinda gut-scumreading

can you expand on these two a bit?

[Detective Pikachu]

guess you kinda explained urap in 356 but I'll see if you talk more about nero as I catch up

[Detective Pikachu]

@detective pikachu do you like town or scum more?

I like town way more than scum but this isn't day 1 activity indicative given that I prefer to basically do nothing day 1 as either alignment, I find it very hard to play without NKA/an informed perspective on VCA. I have been practicing with a friend at getting better at tonereads day 1 but I'm still pretty regularly letting deepwolves slip into my townblock and not getting more than a random % of scum in my scum block so *shrug*

[Detective Pikachu]

I agree that 155 is bad but I don't agree with a urap scumread wholistically so far.

[Detective Pikachu]

My reason for saying that was actually more of an appeal to mechanics rather than the subconscious

o_0
"LAIMST, I have this role that I don't know what to do with, so I'm hoping EVERYBODY SEES how hard I'm trying to reach

my

town!winconf with this role!!!"

I can certainly see your point.

Boom.
In no universe does town ever agree with me here.
You are doing everything you can to appease the red giant and get me off your case at any cost.

Nuke

Mic Drop

I agree this post is kinda bad

10/10 totally town entrance for you Buj.
As always.

idk that Vork goes for a fast Buj pocket tho, I mean maybe but not feeling it super hard?

Fuck it- my meta read on urap2 is based on a newbie game anyway, and seeing where this wagon leads us is interesting
VOTE: urap2

I kinda don't understand why you're voting urap here? And almost all of your surrounding comments are about nom

wooooow
just woooooow

Way to completely dismiss my entire case and stop engaging with that.
And of course you will still keep on trying to get me lynched even though you don't have any solid ground to push this from.
VOTE: nom x3
There's townie "ok fine I'll back off, let's look for another person to look for"
and there's
"I WILL GET THIS MISLYNCH AT ANY AND ALL COSTS"

I'm always willing to consider new and different approaches provided that there can be some sort of argument in favor for them, but THIS right here is truly disgusting.

VOTE: nom x3
wish granted

vork i'm kinda confused how you're reading me

I am too.
I've been informed that you're a good player so unless youre "LOL RXN TESTING" to try and slayer on me or smth, I'm going to have to at your push on me and wonder where this comes from.
The fact that NEITHER nomx3 and skitter have addressed any of my ACTUAL posts and arguements, just vague handwavey handwaves makes me grr as well
Then again that works both ways as scum!skitter is probably not going to be this transparent in defending nomx3...

I also don't like how the bottom third of the activity list isn't engaging and I have solid reasons to think 1 or 2 of them might want to lurk it out.
There are also other ew slots, plus I'm IN the spotlight now. I make better reads when I'm not front and center in the main stage.

I guess I can see this flipping scum but I'm not sure I'm feeling that strongly enough to L-2 rn.

[Detective Pikachu]

Spoiler:

Get off the bunny now we aren't frying it today.

VOTE: URAP

This passivity is uncharacteristic of him, this is probably scum.

So you're scumreading Flubber and me, and town reading Cinn. Is that right?
got any other reads?

Don't think I'm scumreading Flubber rn despite the bad post.

Heh this is closer to the town!urap I know.

VOTE: Buj

@nom I don't think I played a passive opening to this game. What are you talking about?

That's how it came across to me. I just didn't recognize your towngame.

VOTE: nom

show work please

I am voting scum dude what are you on about

the worst is that I can already tell this is going to go nowhere and that I'm wasting my time

for fuck sake

I just wasted one hour and a half I hope you're happy

VOTE: teacher

I have more faith in this than a pika wagon.

VOTE: Vorkuta

If there is support for this, this is definitely the best vote by far.

I dislike nom's early iso but the vork+ stuff makes me think she's more null than null-scum, the vork unvote revote would almost make me lean town if I didn't dislike the bujaber vote from earlier

[Detective Pikachu]

Can you actually... read this please?
Like it's obvious you just ISO'd me here. Read the post in the actual thread and kindly come back with your apologies for the misrep

I mean you're right that I'm staying in the iso but I don't see how it's a misrep to state that I don't understand the vote? I'll see tho

[Detective Pikachu]

Actually urap.. I think nom is town and you feel like you're gauging people's feelings to get a sense for the starus quo.

VOTE: u r a person

That should answer your question regardless of what you were referring to.

@nerfedbuj you said vort's rating system was scummy. He was rating a reaction by nom. Would you not have rated that reaction 0/10? It feels weird to me that you would call the rating scummy there, and i want to know how you would have differed if you were a judge at these games.

Spoiler:

@nom I don't think I played a passive opening to this game. What are you talking about?

That's how it came across to me. I just didn't recognize your towngame.

VOTE: nom

show work please

I am voting scum dude what are you on about

This is the best work I can come up with chief.

This is the best work I can come up with chief.

Low effort, 0/10, would not buy

ngl Vork the rating system you got going on seems scummy

And you were pushing the miller claim as fake.

But I think VOTE: nero cain is a better bet for scum flip

Fuck it- my meta read on urap2 is based on a newbie game anyway, and seeing where this wagon leads us is interesting
VOTE: urap2

So it was basically "lulz sheep bujaber l2"? or was it just "lulz l2"? did you like the wagon for the comp or like the wagon cause it was a wagon?

[Detective Pikachu]

this was sarcasm and Buj got it

this is good tho cause I didn't know it was sarcasm, I thought you were genuinely townreading buj for the entrance (which I actually agreed with, I thought it was kinda a townie entrance)

[Detective Pikachu]

VOTE: EvilDeanius

I'd like content from this slot, particularly given the bravado of the opening post

@ED, hit us with some reads/reasoning?

[Detective Pikachu]

More Town
NerfedBuJ / skitter30 / Dunnstral
Cinnamon

Nero Cain / nomnomnom / u r a person 2

EvilDeanius / Flubbernugget / Vorkuta [this is not an implication I think this is the scumteam nor are any of these really below "null, can be scum I guess"]

Less Town


[unsorted / do not confuse for scumreads]
Saladman27
teacher

Confidence level in reads list: low

[Detective Pikachu]

I guess salad should be with ED for needing more content but I dislike Saladman less because his opening didn't give me expectations of an active player

[Detective Pikachu]

Detective pikachu - just confirming you know alts aren’t allowed to be newbs. It’s come up before and I saw in your first game you said you were a “twin” so thought I’d check.

This is actually a funny comment because I'm almost to SE status on this alt

[Detective Pikachu]

There should be a word for "that feeling when you don't really think you should call someone null but you also have no read on them" cause that's how I feel about teacher

I feel like I should be leaning one way or the other on him but I'm really not lol

[Detective Pikachu]

Haven't finished reading and in an emergency meeting with my boss (a workaholic SOB), but yeah I'm pretty confident cinnamon is town or an exceptional actor because that claim and subsequent posts up to him realizing that he does in fact have a modifier and not 2 roles seems very genuine, I don't think that's how lying looks like.

I am still pro-PL'ing millers before lylo so we"ll discuss again when we're closer to lylo.

This is what I meant by Buj's entrance, I actually forgot there were posts before this one

You didn't think this was a 'townie entrance' (given it's his first post that isn't fluff)? @Vork

[Detective Pikachu]

Why am I null, SP?

Do you feel like your content thus far is sortable?

[Detective Pikachu]

do not confuse for scumreads

this is also odd language...

Yeah usually I put my unsorted in null but I'm trying a new thing. I guess "unsorted" probably would have been enough but I wasn't sure it would be totally obvious that I didn't see that as "below less town"

[Detective Pikachu]

I didn't love the cinnamon push at start, about a fourth of your iso is NAI roleplaying with Vork, your urap push is interesting but it seems like you've... not really directly interacted with urap at all yet? Like you have enough presence that you're not lurker scum but I also don't feel like I have enough of a grip on your logical progression to feel confident on you beyond that.

Can you nutshell why you're voting urap again or point to where you explained?

[Detective Pikachu]

That was @Nero

[Detective Pikachu]

So why didn't you ask me anything or interact with me if you felt that way?

Also, why is my urap push interesting but you don't even know my reasons?

EvilDeanius and Salad have less content and don't seem like they will just magically start producing more content, whereas I'm pretty sure you will continue producing content regardless of whether I poke you or not

Your urap push is interesting because I don't know your reasons lol, that's why I just asked you about it

Do you think nullreading you is scummy of me?

[Detective Pikachu]

I was also scum reading you and was surprised that wasn't even worth a mention.

I had produced no readable content and voting me for pressure was pretty reasonable tbh

[Detective Pikachu]

Do you have a read on me?

[Detective Pikachu]

Again, this is just town!urap like I know him. I know he doesn't like me delving in turbo games because they are meaningless to him but these games tend to exacerbate someone's tendencies in general, and those tendencies is that scum!urap tends to be a bit more shitposty/passive until he is pushed and will go in "URGH" more really fast. I think that's not the case here.

Can you expand on what urap going "urgh more really fast" means. I kinda think I might know what you mean but I don't actually know if I know what that means.

[Detective Pikachu]

EvilDeanus => I literally forgot he was in this game... as I was LOOKING FOR PEOPLE who I forgot were in the game

Right? and that was after he said he wanted to vote skitter in his op

[Detective Pikachu]

I guess I'll give Vork this point, it's that people only followed Vork's case when Skitter appeared in the thread and made that case despite me presenting the exact same arguments. THAT is strange.

tbh that fact alone means that if vork is actually town, teacher is probably 100% scum here. And even then that kind of observation makes me think that it could be an equally good lynch for today.

I feel like I missed a post or something, how does that make teacher scum?

[Detective Pikachu]

When you have two people making the same case but the one that was made later down the road with the exact same argument has a player joining it simply because it actually took off this time, that's scummy. And that's what teacher did here.

You say this, but isn't a simple explanation that he just townreads skitter more than he townreads you and so was more willing to sheep her?

Vork is right that scum can be tempted to sheep skitter, assuming she's town, but the reason they do that is because... town often sheeps skitter.

I don't think sheeping skitter is AI in general, and I don't think teacher sheeping a player he townreads is SI for him in particular.

That being said he's still unreadable so I don't mind pressure there but I wouldn't go like, full crusade mode.

[Detective Pikachu]

Pikachu still reads like careful scum to me

I look forward to being upgrade to reckless scum later in the game :3

[Detective Pikachu]

I might as well VOTE: Teach

now

.

Is it dumb to want to townread this post just for the italics? Like, probably, right?

[Detective Pikachu]

"those italics come from town every time man"

alright I'll stop I'm going to bed lol

[Detective Pikachu]

Everyone on the EvilDeanius wagon can join me in a dance party!



Does that mean ED flips scum?

I have no idea

But we're gonna have fun until we figure out what he's likely to flip!

[Detective Pikachu]

Oh come on, you know you want to join in the fun activity push on a slot with no readable content!

It's a

par-tay

!

[Detective Pikachu]

why are they town?

Haven't finished reading and in an emergency meeting with my boss (a workaholic SOB), but yeah I'm pretty confident cinnamon is town or an exceptional actor because that claim and subsequent posts up to him realizing that he does in fact have a modifier and not 2 roles seems very genuine, I don't think that's how lying looks like.

I am still pro-PL'ing millers before lylo so we"ll discuss again when we're closer to lylo.

[...]
You didn't think this was a 'townie entrance' (given it's his first post that isn't fluff)? [...]

[Detective Pikachu]

I don't think Saladman's kinda nonsensical posting is outside the townrange of someone who two months ago said this in his first game:

I just have no idea how to scum hunt/read so I don't post much.

The one thing that throws me about his reads is actually that I agreed with them and they seemed to have a lot of overlap with my reads; he also forgot to list me but was only townleaning me (I almost thought at first he was sheeping my towncore?). I don't know what to do with all that but the way he presents his thoughts reads a bit like "too lynchbaity to be scum"

Unfortunately he has only rolled town in his newbie games (and this is his first non-newbie game) so there is no scum game for him for comparison.

I guess there's always the chance a scumbuddy was like, "do a reads list so you look less lynchbaity" but, if so, wouldn't his reasons... probably?... make more sense. If he's coached he's not very heavily coached.

[Detective Pikachu]

I don't think Saladman's kinda nonsensical posting is outside the townrange

guess this is kinda a double negative

Basically -- "I don't think saladman writing stuff that reads a bit like nonsense is scum indicative"

[Detective Pikachu]

I think it means he's taking off the hot nurse uniform and putting on his pajamas

[Detective Pikachu]

End of Blind Man by Aerosmith?

Spoiler:

[Detective Pikachu]

There's not alot there that I particularly dislike but there was a point where people seemed to start talking about him for lack of proper content, at which point he then switched to pushing on others who also hadn't done anything/alot. The timing just seems like a deflection to me, it seems off.

This is a good observation insofar as people pushing me for content when I don't really feel like doing things on day 1 tends to work, but I don't think it's a great reason to "gut" scumread me

Can you expand on your Vork townread (given you list him as TvT with nomnom)? That's been the basis for a good part of Dunn's iso so it would help me if you could comment on whether you see Dunn's push as townie if Vork town is one of your stronger/only reads.

[Detective Pikachu]

If one of buj and skitter flip scum I'd push on this as implicating the other

I agree this post is kinda a problem since I don't see how that really implicates skitter as s/s and not just Buj, if scum, trying to pocket skitter.

I have literally no idea what to do with the drunk posting. I'm not sure that I'm satisfied enough with ED's content yet to move off him tho

[Detective Pikachu]

Vork seems town because I feel like they would be more cautious about their pushes as scum. I don't think scum immediately attacks a miller claim in the way that they did, they just sort of let it sit for a while. They've also been very self assured of their pushes, and I think that comes with someone who cares more about lynching scum than just appearing townie.

Cool.

Do you have a read of Dunn?

[Detective Pikachu]

I'm kinda getting tempted to lynch ED just because I'm starting to get sick of waiting 12 hours+ for a response to any question and this one post-every-other-day thing. I don't even hate his reads but I see no conviction in them so far. It feels like he's playing like he's a spectator when he started the game acting like he was going to be involved and that really bothers me.

[Detective Pikachu]

It can just be his playstyle but I honestly don't know how enthusiastic I am about putting up with this playstyle by day 3.

[Detective Pikachu]

There's not alot there that I particularly dislike but there was a point where people seemed to start talking about him for lack of proper content, at which point he then switched to pushing on others who also hadn't done anything/alot. The timing just seems like a deflection to me, it seems off.

This is a good observation insofar as people pushing me for content when I don't really feel like doing things on day 1 tends to work, but I don't think it's a great reason to "gut" scumread me

Can you expand on your Vork townread (given you list him as TvT with nomnom)? That's been the basis for a good part of Dunn's iso so it would help me if you could comment on whether you see Dunn's push as townie if Vork town is one of your stronger/only reads.

Vork seems town because I feel like they would be more cautious about their pushes as scum. I don't think scum immediately attacks a miller claim in the way that they did, they just sort of let it sit for a while. They've also been very self assured of their pushes, and I think that comes with someone who cares more about lynching scum than just appearing townie.

Two requests in 736 -- expand on Vork TR, what's your read of Dunn.

36 hours, and the only existence of "dun" in his iso is him quoting my question.

I'm a pretty patient pikachu but this is pushing me

[Detective Pikachu]

I feel like that would make a good meme hydra, "Scum and Town"

One player signs -scum, other player signs -town

[Detective Pikachu]

let's do it

Sure

[Detective Pikachu]

557 is iioa, why do you think that is town indicative?

[Detective Pikachu]

Like it hints at vork town but it doesn't reflect a sort on vork via vork's posts, it's a read on vork via wagon on him if it's a read on vork at all which is at the very least a poor manner of getting reads.

[Detective Pikachu]

Yeah but he's not giving a read of vork. He's saying that vork could be pushed by scum which is like, ok it's fair to shut down nom's bad argument there but it's not a read of vork directly.

[Detective Pikachu]

Like he could easily just say in his next post "but vork is scum anyway" like there's no sense of his actual read until the next post where he says nm/vork tvt which is after the feud has died and that's already the consensus position

[Detective Pikachu]

Prolly town

[Detective Pikachu]

I think Cinn is probably town

Boom.
In no universe does town ever agree with me here.
You are doing everything you can to appease the red giant and get me off your case at any cost.
Nuke Mic Drop

I think this is actually kind of townie..

it's been feeling pretty tvt to me mate

Reminder that

The ratings are tongue in cheek to express my disapproval for nomx3's bad push on urap2 that I just don't buy.

Fuck it- my meta read on urap2 is based on a newbie game anyway, and seeing where this wagon leads us is interesting
VOTE: urap2

lol these are townie

Also- does scum!vork just go blazing all out for blood for a miller claim, and after it doesn't attract enough attention immediately I try to gut the next best person?

yeah probably

but i think you're just town

Urap struggles to generate organic townreads connected to specific points as scum so these posts are all fairly town indicative for him

Not 100% but I'd say my read on him for this is way above random for this game at least. Probably won't work in next but *shrug*

[Detective Pikachu]

Actually I guess I'd feel better if they weren't all about one player but meh

[Detective Pikachu]

saladman reads are pretty townie overall i think

like take this interaction we're having here. it feels a lot like last game, and i don't really remember you digging this deep when you were hydra with rc

so that seems townie

but do I think from what I know of your game that you are incapable of this as scum? no way

Salad read overlaps with mine too

He loses the skitter townread later bht that sort of back and forth in his reads is typical

Pretty comfortable with a tr here tbh

[Detective Pikachu]

Basically as scum he talks about townie things town is doing way less, he pretends to scumhunt but he struggles to townblock as part of his solving. Its a problem a lot of scum have

[Detective Pikachu]

You'd be surprised how many games can be solved through sort by activity lol

[Detective Pikachu]

Towncore: urap

Townread: Saladman27 / Cinnamon / nomnom

Likely town: Nero Cain / NerfedBuJ / skitter30 / Dunnstral

null line: teacher

How to read drunk posting? Flubbernugget

thought I saw a townie post but now I'm wondering if I was hallucinating cause I can't find it: Vorkuta

seems like just conventional lurker scum? EvilDeanius

Confidence level in reads list: medium

idk, I don't think Flubber is scum just for drunkposting even if his solving is underwhelming. Vorkuta -- I thought I saw something townie, but then whenever I go back to try to remember where or what it was, I cannot find it. Maybe it never existed. Sometimes I'm sort of tired when reading the thread and I just dreamed he wrote a townie post. idk man

ED just reads like how I sometimes like to play scum. Log into the thread, make one post that hopefully will avoid you getting mislynched, interact with no one, log out, try to forget the game exists for 2 days. Like this isn't just lurking, this is like, really hard active lurking.

That being said there may be legit merit to resolving Dunn v. Vorkuta today if people just really don't want to do ED, and in that matchup I'm pretty sure I'd go for Vorkuta and just accept that I dreamed whatever townie post I thought I saw

[Detective Pikachu]

The dream post I mean I thought was a response to nomnom where I felt like he was really trying to solve her alignment, but whenever I look back through the iso I actually don't see what looks like that now, if anyone else thinks they saw a townie vorkuta post let me know

[Detective Pikachu]

Generally being unable to find one townie post in your iso is cause for concern, so yes finding one would make me feel better about you not being day 1

[Detective Pikachu]

Please designate your best player so I may vote them to assert dominance

Skitter has a banner under her name so that puts her ahead of most of us I think.

I have no idea how to play this role so I'll say this: part of my role is that I am a miller.

AHAHAHHAHAAAAA
No.
VOTE: Cinnamon

Fuck it- my meta read on urap2 is based on a newbie game anyway, and seeing where this wagon leads us is interesting
VOTE: urap2

wooooow
just woooooow

Way to completely dismiss my entire case and stop engaging with that.
And of course you will still keep on trying to get me lynched even though you don't have any solid ground to push this from.
VOTE: nom x3
There's townie "ok fine I'll back off, let's look for another person to look for"
and there's
"I WILL GET THIS MISLYNCH AT ANY AND ALL COSTS"

I'm always willing to consider new and different approaches provided that there can be some sort of argument in favor for them, but THIS right here is truly disgusting.

Bah just saw the VC
VOTE: Flubber
Beetlejuicing

My gut tells me that one of {ED/Flubber} has pretty damn high scum equity
They've had the opportunity to interact on all of the things right now

I'll sort the rest of you lot in due time

flubber is your best push to date and i still kinda think it's the wrong choice vs ED?

I feel like the only slot you could have hit as scum by just randomly voting at this point is flubber but I don't see why I'd townread you for pushing three town back to back? Which is kinda what I think your day 1 looks like so far.

I don't think you're confscum, but I don't see anything that strongly leans town over scum in any of these

Urap and nom votes are both kinda overly emotional too

[Detective Pikachu]

The dude read my post and refused to comment on Dunn. No man, I think he's lurker scum, he's like deliberately avoiding engaging. It's not policy.

What are you talking about mechanical insights?

[Detective Pikachu]

@DP do you REALLY think ED is the best vote right now after everything you highlighted? Genuine question.

I think Vork usually reads like a chicken with its head cut off tho so I'm just not sure that all makes him scum. sorry don't want to mainslip but I don't think his day 1 reads are typically above random so being 0/3 in his first 3 pushes isn't really out of form.

But it doesn't make him town and so he's more poe scum than scum vs. ED who is really kinda rubbing me the wrong way. Like ED's entire iso reminds me of how I used to play scum

[Detective Pikachu]

I feel like scum tends to have a higher signal to noise ratio tho? I feel like town shitposts and fluffposts way more than scum, on average, in any given game. Not like scum can't fluffpost but I don't think being noisy is worse than being quiet

[Detective Pikachu]

Do you think he's solving because he's townreading you?

[Detective Pikachu]

@DP can you sell me on nom?

Honestly I don't think I can; I think what I most like about the slot is how she's approached her read of me but a) I can't push her to expand on that read for [reasons], b) you don't know my alignment, and c) it's not impossible she's trying to pocket me. I *think* she is town but I can't make that case independently like I can with urap. I'm not ready to hard towncore her yet but I see one kinda townie thought process and I'm not feeling a lot of pings. There were certain parts of the Vork push I didn't love but I still lean town overall.

Why is teacher null, Dp?

Don't think he's outside his scumrange but don't think him sheeping people is SI at all. I don't remember what else you thought was scummy about him off hand.

[Detective Pikachu]

needed

needed = nerfedBuj?

[Detective Pikachu]

urap you feeling pretty good on vork T?

@teacher yeah I'm kinda still here off and on... got some pokefood cookin :3

[Detective Pikachu]

Vorkuta (4):

skitter30, Dunnstral, nomnomnom,
teacher

u r a person 2 (1):

Nero Cain

teacher (1):

Cinnamon

nomnomnom (1):

Vorkuta

Detective Pikachu (1):

NerfedBuJ

NerfedBuJ (1):

u r a person 2

EvilDeanius (1):

Detective Pikachu

Not Voting (3):

EvilDeanius, Flubbernugget,
Saladman27

With

13

alive, it takes

7

to hammer.
Day 1 ends in

(expired on 2019-06-22 09:30:00)

I also might add that it adds up to NC's earlier argument for a teacher scumread that his vote served no true purpose and was a placeholder so yeah, this is definitely the kind of thing that catches my attention. Skitter tends to be highly respected in these games and I think it could play a huge psychological factor in people's decision making here.

Hmmmm.

You seem to acknowledge to a similar degree what I was getting at, but still come to a wildly different conclusion. I'd love to talk about this but honestly I don't wven know what to ask

You know actually I think this is the post I was thinking of. I couldn't find it in vork's iso cause flubber wrote it lol. I must have been pretty out of it yesterday morning

Idk flubber isn't flaming town but these interactions with nom aren't really that bad

I'd like to see skitter's thoughts on this post but I think she's doing her v/la thing until monday at this point

[Detective Pikachu]

Cinnamon what do you think of 848? How easy is it for scum to fake a post like that?

[Detective Pikachu]

I feel like at this point I'm either putting 2 scum in my greens or have my strong townreads defending scum so that's cool

The more town I find in vork and flubber the more I want ED cause I'm basically running out of scumreads lol

[Detective Pikachu]

What town are you finding in vork? I thought that earlier you were not townreading him

I don't really hate urap's reasons to townread Vork even if I'm not as convinced as he is, but he's my strongest tr rn and I kinda feel like his argument here does make Vork maybe above rand town

He's still toward the bottom of my list but right now I basically just don't have three scumreads. I have ED, who I think might just flip scum, I have Vork who is vouched for by urap for reasons that aren't total nonsense, I have flubber who I see one slightly townie post from even if it's not enough to solid townread, and teacher who I kinda just need to see over a longer span I think to get a better sense of his flow.

I kinda don't want to start going into max paranoia on my lighter townreads until I have a flip tho tbh

[Detective Pikachu]

Also to all of you suggesting evilD I implore you to reconsider.

Talk to me. What's the d/l?

[Detective Pikachu]

I agree but if there was scum somewhere in nero/vork/teacher I wouldn't be like, shocked. I just see no reason to start there unless to resolve dunn v. Vork which has gotten a bit dumb. But I'm also kinda feeling on evild like dunn seems to feel on vork which is that I kinda just want to see the flip at this point

Like if I'm wrong there's so much of my poe I need to reassess I want to be doing that day 2 not still wondering about a slot that won't do more than 4 posts in a week

Pedit: urap want to skim that last not known 15 completed large where flubber was scum and lmk if you see any diff/sim. Would link but I'm on mobile atm

[Detective Pikachu]

216 its toward top of completed larges

[Detective Pikachu]

Buj I'm not sure. I find it concerning he hasn't really engaged my reads or discussed what is or isn't a tell which would make me feel a lot better for him as town. But I'm not sure if that's related to him scumreading me or not. Like I feel like he's quasi ignoring my posts? Might need to reread to see if that's how he trests his scumreads. I will say that him scumreading me but not doing jack shit about it is almost exactly what I would expect from a "lazy nerfed alt" lol so I'm having a hard time lockscumming him for activity even if this seems below average

[Detective Pikachu]

Well in the large he never unvotes. So here he's doing a better job of presenting the sense that he is re-evaluating. It's not like, a hard thing to fake or a big point in his favor, but at a cursory glance if he's scum his scum play here is slightly better than his scum play in 216.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Also worth noting that one of his 4 naked votes in that game was minor distancing with no follow-up so might be good to think about that

[Detective Pikachu]

VOTE: nom

The people on the vorkuta wagon

I know i know i know they had *reasons* and stuff

Spare me

No wait I think I see what you're getting at

"It's okay to sheep skitter" and "this wagon is too fast" don't make sense together.

UNVOTE:

Need to reread.

Teacher seens town enough to me

What's the case on ED?

this is... *slightly* more thought process than what I see in the scum iso but, the rest of the iso actually looks very similar to his scum play, particularly RVS, so *shrug*

[Detective Pikachu]

Actually no the follow-up responses discussing Creature actually look like this, so I guess there's the very small risk that Flubber red flip very slightly spews nom scum but the unvote also looks kinda different.

Actually I might just be wasting my time here, I thought meta would make him more sortable but actually this doesn't look nearly as different as I thought it would other than the unvotes

[Detective Pikachu]

NerfedBuj
EvilDeanius
Flubbernugget

Actually pretty okay with this lynchpool

[Detective Pikachu]

There's not alot there that I particularly dislike but there was a point where people seemed to start talking about him for lack of proper content, at which point he then switched to pushing on others who also hadn't done anything/alot. The timing just seems like a deflection to me, it seems off.

This is a good observation insofar as people pushing me for content when I don't really feel like doing things on day 1 tends to work, but I don't think it's a great reason to "gut" scumread me

Can you expand on your Vork townread (given you list him as TvT with nomnom)? That's been the basis for a good part of Dunn's iso so it would help me if you could comment on whether you see Dunn's push as townie if Vork town is one of your stronger/only reads.

Vork seems town because I feel like they would be more cautious about their pushes as scum. I don't think scum immediately attacks a miller claim in the way that they did, they just sort of let it sit for a while. They've also been very self assured of their pushes, and I think that comes with someone who cares more about lynching scum than just appearing townie.

Vork seems town because I feel like they would be more cautious about their pushes as scum. I don't think scum immediately attacks a miller claim in the way that they did, they just sort of let it sit for a while. They've also been very self assured of their pushes, and I think that comes with someone who cares more about lynching scum than just appearing townie.

Cool.

Do you have a read of Dunn?

736 asked two questions, and he chose to only answer one in 841

I asked a follow up half an hour later on Thursday and he never replied.

And the rest of his iso is a) active lurking or b) sheeping largely consensus reads

In fairness I think this was the last time he logged on to the site and

he's probably going to get replaced

(@mod?)

If people want to wait for a replacement, sure. But we have 4 days and the Replacement Queue just got nuked from [someone getting banned] so I wouldn't be holding my breath that we're going to get a replacement anytime soon.

Flubber do you want to sell us on Buj scum or something or what?

[Detective Pikachu]

yeah I guess we have no choice

UNVOTE:

Gotta be honest nom your tone here feels pretty weird to me

what do you mean by "we have no choice"? I feel like usually you're pretty aggressive with what you think is best?

[Detective Pikachu]

Please designate your best player so I may vote them to assert dominance

"I don't even want responsibility for my RVS vote!"

Fits profile of scum!lurk out

What bothers me the most about that is that I think we all pretty clearly designated it was skitter and he just did not follow up, didn't vote her, had no interactions

like it's a bravado "I'm gonna fite someone big" post and then he just nopes out of the thread wtf?

[Detective Pikachu]

skitter I feel like you should be townreading urap here, why are you struggling to do that?

[Detective Pikachu]

I guess. Just felt weird to me mang.

Shall we form a drum circle and pray to the replacement gods that a replacement chooses the EvilD slot over the 7 other games that need replacements now?

[Detective Pikachu]

skitter I feel like you should be townreading urap here, why are you struggling to do that?

Why do you think Skitter should?

I feel like urap is like the easiest townread in the game and I don't get why she hasn't seen it given I feel she generally has pretty strong reads

[Detective Pikachu]

I have no clue what you're trying to say here but i dont like the rolefish from ed

you're not drunk again right? He's talking about the miller claim?

[Detective Pikachu]

Dude, urap was saying that ED's post was like, "blah blah blah this is what theoretical people do in response to a miller claim"

He wasn't like "I believe the miller claim" or "I don't believe the miller claim"

how do you get "fishing for modifiers" out of that post?

[Detective Pikachu]

@Dunn what do you think of nom? Any feeling about 1199?

pedit: UNVOTE:

Thanks for taking the slot Sho

[Detective Pikachu]

Wow I didn't think praying to the drum circles would actually work!

[Detective Pikachu]

I quoted weird. I am accusing ED of fishing, not urap

"If somebody scum reads them, the fact that they've softed PR should mean nothing until they make an actual claim."

Sounds like ED wanted to keep cinn a viable L1 target either to lynch or to get a fullclaim

oh, okay that makes more sense then

[Detective Pikachu]

Shoshin I'm cool with you taking on a bravado perspective as to your slots alignment but please don't imply you have a trust tell or replace tactically as that makes your slot feel icky

[Detective Pikachu]

Can you talk to me about nom town? I actually was feeling it for most the game, I'm just kinda pinged by 1199 and don't get why she wrote that post that way as town. What makes her a strong townread for you?

[Detective Pikachu]

Nom's town because there's much deeper thinking than anything they've ever displayed as scum.

What games with nom are you thinking of here?

[Detective Pikachu]

If you assume I'm town, what're your reads? A question for both Pika & U2.

idk, I'd probably vote Buj but he's hardly lockscum

let me know if Buj is also town

[Detective Pikachu]

There's no real risk of scum killing you rn tho so there's no point in giving political reads

[Detective Pikachu]

Replace in at l3 and top concern is getting nk'd? Wtf?

[Detective Pikachu]

Idk if its scummy but I'd kinda like sho to not play like she's a mystic coming down from a spirit journey and explain things in a less ridiculous manner

[Detective Pikachu]

Pretty much all of them

[Detective Pikachu]

Was 1133 about vork or flubber? Tbh I have basically no read of vork, I think I had him as nullscum earlier but I'm honestly ok just taking your read for the day. I probably need to read his scumgames or something

[Detective Pikachu]

I'd guess at least one scum in Pika/U2.

Ok. Imagine we're both ics. Then who would be scum?

[Detective Pikachu]

where have you even seen scum fake-claim miller 3 different tiems? i don't think i've ever seen that?

In 3 different games
*sighs* at this point I'm arguing just for the sake of arguing I swear

-FL, NK's 2058 Large

triggered really hard

-awestfie, BTXI
-ruirui/fumiki/funaki/whoeverreplaced, NC's 2070 Mini Normal

Do you want exact links with post numbers and quotes?

What do you think of this Nero?

You modded that game, right? Does Vorkuta's story add up?

One of the examples Vorkuta listed has a town miller in it

And it features a town Vorkuta pushing a miller and an ascetic claim all game

And it features a town miller with another power role

Vorkuta does seem different to that game though.

Does anybody else want to read Mini 2070? How come Nero didn't realize that Vorkuta brought up the game he modded that had a real miller in it when trying to show off scum fake claims?

a town miller

3 miller fake claims vs 2 miller real claims

I swear it's like you don't even read
And tchill was doing exactly the same bull shit that morality did in nk's game "ascetic -> miller"

where have you even seen scum fake-claim miller 3 different tiems?

i don't think i've ever seen that?

In 3 different games

*sighs* at this point I'm arguing just for the sake of arguing I swear

-FL, NK's 2058 Large

triggered really hard

-awestfie, BTXI

-ruirui/fumiki/funaki/whoeverreplaced, NC's 2070 Mini Normal

Do you want exact links with post numbers and quotes?

Bolded relevant parts

I did, in fact, read

I did, in fact, read

then you'll see that scum funaki's slot's predecessor fakeclaimed miller as scum AS WELL

Can you point it out?

But yes guys- go read the game where I die hard tunnel an early miller claim that I just outright didn't buy

You definitely didn't die hard tunnel anything that game. This game, yeah. That game? Not really.

what did you think of this, Sho?

[Detective Pikachu]

I mean I more feel like you just haven't engaged me on any reads. That and I'm running out of scumreads. I don't really love salad for scum. I feel like even if you were scumreading me you would at some point re-evaluate or seriously engage with my reads and you haven't really done that. You've spent this game more talking 'at' me or 'at' the town but you've never really had a conversation with me despite me being one of your longer standing scumreads. That doesn't really give me the strong impression you're genuinely trying to solve my slot.

[Detective Pikachu]

TOWN
u r a person 2 -- discussed this in https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11025121

MESSY RANGE OF LIKELY TOWN
Cinnamon -- Miller claim was townie, has been kinda forgettable since then

skitter30 -- Feel like I've had a lot of mindmeld with her but [there's one thing that makes me second guess myself here but I don't want to talk about it yet]

Nero Cain -- think the activity is relatively alignment indicative even if it's tapered off a little bit as the day has dragged on, haven't really locked in on any particular major tells outside of this. I guess if scum I should have paid more attention to the thing Dunn was saying about the games Vork mentioned. Don't love that he's spent half the game scumreading me but I feel like he at least tries to engage me every now and then so I have an easier time believing his uncertainty than Bujaber's

EHHH? -- mostly former light townleans that I don't feel as confident in anymore
Dunnstral -- Really liked how he dealt with Vorkuta in the early game, since then he's kinda been tunneled; without seeing him solving the rest of the list it's kinda hard to get a strong feel for him even if that one thing is pretty good

teacher -- think his sheeping fits his town game, he's not hugely pinging me in any one way, but I also don't feel like his solving so far this game is outside his scum range so I can't say town for sure

Saladman27 -- I feel like he came out with a reads list because I did a reads list. I want to say that's townie but it was also kinda just interesting given he didn't have me as strong town

nomnomnom -- Mostly liked her thought process irt to me but her play around the EvilD wagon kinda pinged me

Shoshin -- feel like you were kinda misrepping your scumrange (don't ask me to go into this rn), I'm not sure if that's scummy or just part of your rep-in hyperconfidence gimmick, but I like the energy you've been bringing to the game so far tbh

Vorkuta -- kinda didn't like parts of his exchange with nom; not sure why people are saying this was T/T, I wasn't so sure it was. But urap vouches for him and honestly I don't know his meta well enough to know what to look for in town

Flubbernugget -- made that one kinda townie post irt to nom, and has been unvoting in a way that suggests reflection in a way that goes against his scum game, but most of his iso looks more or less like it's within his scum range

I GUESS CAN BE SCUM? WHY NOT?
NerfedBuJ -- I kinda liked the RVS reaction to the miller claim but his play since then has felt kinda passive and disengaged and I haven't really liked how he's approached my slot

idk I feel like my reads aren't that good, I'm pretty sure on urap town, I feel like the majority of my townleans from earlier in the game were probably right but given I feel like it's basically obligatory that I reassess, idk

I think the short answer is that if your slot is town my reads probably mostly go in the garbage can

Like I don't super want to lynch anyone in my "EHHH?" range right now, and Buj is not like, I must lynch that slot today, he just sort of poe defaults to scum for lack of towntells

[Detective Pikachu]

Not much? I'm already kinda thinking about the saladman scum argument and I don't hate it but I don't love it either. I'm not really sold on bujaber town but I don't hate it either. I feel relatively confident you're wrong on urap so I'd probably just have to fite you there. And teacher...? *meh* he can be scum if you want but I don't really know why you're reaching that conclusion. If you were IC I guess I'd go read some teacher scumgames or something and see if I could engage you more on that read.

[Detective Pikachu]

I kinda feel like abstractly the arguments for Nero town are kinda similar to the arguments for Teacher town? 'sortable by activity, therefore town'? I'm not sure why the two are being read so differently when I feel like the underlying logic in reading each is similar, at least for a few of the people

[Detective Pikachu]

nom, earlier Sho implied that she had played with you before, do you feel like you have a grip on her meta?

[Detective Pikachu]

Saladman does not approve the consumption of noodles

VOTE: Screamingnoodle

Saladman, can I just say that I appreciate you for having the best 1-post iso I have ever seen?

[Detective Pikachu]

I kinda want to move salad back to town, it's not 100% lock but this is like a pretty impressive job of emulating his towngame if he's scum.

Teacher would you mind linking your scum games?

[Detective Pikachu]

You don't need to hide the truth, saladman. It's obvious you just could not abide your arch-rival, the screamingnoodle, not getting lynched immediately in day 1.

You are clearly a man of principle.

[Detective Pikachu]

I only wonder how long this salad/noodle rivalry stretches back to... some say, perhaps, the dawn of time itself?

Or perhaps it was that day back in 13th century italy, when someone first decided that a chicken cacciatore was best served over noodles and not salad?

[Detective Pikachu]

I'll go ahead and say that if Shoshin's spot flips red, vork's spot is 100% red as well. There's just no way. These associatives are really apparent.

Can you flesh this out a bit?

[Detective Pikachu]

[Detective Pikachu]

But if this is cop/miller then has normal queue really started stealing setups from EpicMafia?

[Detective Pikachu]

hahahahahaha

this is a comedy sketch

nom I don't wanna scumread you for playstyle but this is the second time you have pinged me in your interactions with the EvilD/Sho slot, like this feels like just a weird reaction to the gamestate

[Detective Pikachu]

in my limited exp. with Shosin she's a lurksack as town so the hyperactivity means this is prob scum.

VOTE: shoshin

can you be specific on which games you thought her townplay was 'lurksack'?

[Detective Pikachu]

if she can fake it as scum

since she mentioned Undertale I'd be interested in what you make of her iso in that game (Papyrus)

[Detective Pikachu]

Yeah it is alot but it could be just active lurking...

saladman is living up to his name with some quality word salad

[Detective Pikachu]

Nom's far beyond what I saw from them as scum.

yeah but didn't she have a post restriction or something in undertale, like I'm not sure that's fully indicative of her actual scumrange

[Detective Pikachu]

Can I get teacher and DP to give some thoughts on this please

I'm having mixed feelings, I'm trying to decide whether we're playing [a game where town lynches strongest PR d1] or [a game where town let's scum get off from a strong investigative claim], I've lost games to both of those scenarios before

I think I would like the sho lynch more if nom hadn't started pinging me just a little bit, but uhh, I also recognize that my 'pace' in deciding things like this tends to be a lot slower than most town are okay with

(Still feel bad for Egix, did you see that he conceded and mod actually denied it? Ughh that was like, a huge reason I was second guessing myself on him because I was pretty sure he would concede. sorry this is o/t)

[Detective Pikachu]

I think in the event that Shoshin is town here there's definitely scum on the wagon

statistically that's pretty likely of any wagon with 4 people on it, scum or town

[Detective Pikachu]

VOTE: nomnom

I'm just trying this on for size, let me know if it makes my butt look big

[Detective Pikachu]

Pretty sure? it's still l-1

[Detective Pikachu]

Pretty sure? it's still l-1

pedit: shoshin is l-2

let's not vote unless people are sure of the VC just fyi lol

[Detective Pikachu]

VOTE: nomnom

I'm just trying this on for size, let me know if it makes my butt look big

No, not today please. I'd like you to bracket Nom for today. Please join me on Nero or join Cinn on Flubb. We need to be working together if we're going to have any sort of meaningful counter wagon to myself.

yes but if I'm right about nom and you're wrong then I get extra pikachu points

I'm pretty sure nothing is actually happening with nom right now I just want to test my own psyche to see how easy it is to move my vote off her in my own mind. Sometimes I'm subconsciously reading people in a way that's different than my conscious thoughts. It's hard to explain

[Detective Pikachu]

skitter do you notice big differences from https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=32655 in terms of solving or trajectory? I feel like I struggle to understand her thought process regardless of alignment tbh

I will say that her play this game doesn't feel outside her town range and the hyperconfidence of nom in the push has me feeling weird. But I'm struggling to come up with reasons to say "fuck no don't lynch sho rn." I kinda am at the "eh just give her a night and see if scum shoots her" but I feel like that's an incredibly lazy way to approach her slot and I don't know who I want lynched other than maybe nom/buj and that's not like "damn sure need to lynch them." I'm just kinda at a loss rn

[Detective Pikachu]

I don't know what you need to know about the game other than that she was in a great position for most of the game and then half her scum team got vigged and the worst bussed her at the end and that's when she stopped posting, so there's nothing from her at l-1 so all of the flail at the end of her iso is still at like the l-2/l-3 stage

[Detective Pikachu]

Pika, I don't understand why you'd even consider lynching me today? What are you finding actually scummy about me?

I mean I'm probably not voting you this daycycle, it's more a question of whether I can actually defend you. I'm like: can I argue Shoshin is town conclusively?

Like it would be a lot easier if you hadn't polluted the discussion with the massive "I don't play scum" argument when I feel like your play in Undertale wasn't that bad? So I'm like, kinda annoyed at you for trying to make that argument even though I'm not sure it's actually a scummy argument

I also don't want to just say "let's give every pr claim a day for the sake of giving every pr claim a day" cause then we just get every scum fakeclaiming pr and that gets kinda old too

[Detective Pikachu]

did you role crumb at all?

give me a break teacher no one crumbs role when at l-3 with no other wagons as a pr replacing into a game, all you do in that situation is try to get the wagon off you and try to figure out who you're going to replace as the consensus lynch without fucking it up and hitting town

[Detective Pikachu]

just show of hands how many people really really really don't want to lynch nom today again?

[Detective Pikachu]

cause you've pinged me twice and teacher only asked one dumb question

[Detective Pikachu]

She sure as hell softed at that point, IN THIS GAME. What the fuck are you talking about dont crumb role with those facts.

I feel like softing and crumbing are pretty different but maybe that's just me

[Detective Pikachu]

i haven't gotten that far yet but it's like .... leagues different
she doesn't display anything close to the nuance of thought she's had here

can you expand on this? what do you see as nuance of thought from this game so far?

[Detective Pikachu]

You're the person who should be wanting me to live the entire game, not just another day. The PR stuff shouldn't be relevant to you. It's relevant to others, but you have enough sense to read me on behavior. Do that.

Let's let skitter finish towncasing you if she's going to cause I think she has a better chance of preventing your lynch than I do if she wants you not lynched today

[Detective Pikachu]

ye I don't think I want sho to go today

skitter how you feeling about nom in this push?

[Detective Pikachu]

You literally implied he had scum intent and outlined a good reason to do it, but you decide to vote a slot that "pinged you twice"?

I don't feel like I implied there was scum intent in asking the question, he felt more out of touch to me which could be scummy but could just be teachery weirdness

your tone just feels wolfy to me in this push

[Detective Pikachu]

1562 is actually one of the posts that most bothered me mostly because I don't really understand where the hyperconfidence is coming from

I'm just gonna let this game simmer for a bit in my brain

pedit: I'll get right on that when my brain doesn't feel like mush

[Detective Pikachu]

If I had to pick , Flubb would be more scummier than Nero... Even if Sho is town.

Why's this salad my man? What's scummy about flubber and what's townie about nero?

[Detective Pikachu]

How to read nero? what's the metric skittles?

[Detective Pikachu]

Why not Nero?

Because I don't scumread Nero

Dunn do you read nero or is he nully?

[Detective Pikachu]

Nom do you have a metric to read nero by?

[Detective Pikachu]

u r a person 2
Cinnamon

skitter30
Saladman27

Shoshin
Flubbernugget

teacher
Dunnstral

Vorkuta / Nero Cain / NerfedBuJ / nomnomnom <-- if I'm having a good game, there's 2+ here?

[Detective Pikachu]

My reads feel rand / only slight above rand to me right now tbh

I'm feeling better about there being at most 1 scum in top 4 than that there's 2 in bottom 4

[Detective Pikachu]

My reads feel rand / only slight above rand to me right now tbh

I'm feeling better about there being at most 1 scum in top 4 than that there's 2 in bottom 4

watch game is skitter/salad and I'm playing like garbage lol

that would be a trip

[Detective Pikachu]

Sho are you still on scum nero and town nom?

[Detective Pikachu]

I will never lynch Nom.

well out of nero/vork/buj what is THE PATH?

[Detective Pikachu]

I think he means he trusts me more on urap not more on Nero.

[Detective Pikachu]

No actually. I am moving away from your urap position a little for reasons, but still think that was a towny process. I trust your independent judgment on Nero more than my own because I’m strongly conflicted and more than Shoshin because I think hers is too clouded by the push on her, which Shoshin automatically views as necessarily scummy.

Oh okay

Well full disclosure my read rate on Nero is actually close to pure random; don't want to go into too much more detail to refrain from outing my main but I would not suggest sheeping me on Nero. If you want him to be scum then scumread him on your own terms lol

[Detective Pikachu]

That being said

VOTE: Nero

I think Shoshin on Nero might be above random? and I think Sho might be above random town here? so all in all it's not a bad push?

Notice the question marks

[Detective Pikachu]

I just spent about a week sitting with URAP in lylo where I meta'd him at great length for a solve.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... start=2425

[Detective Pikachu]

I'm genuinely looking for push back on the analysis above, not sheeping.

well I asked like 3 people on their metric for Nero and I haven't gotten one yet

[Detective Pikachu]

a way to solve him for town or a way to solve him for scum

I've heard people say activity is AI for him but I don't really know what is or is not within his actual scumrange for day 1

I feel like his level of thread presence maybe points toward town, but I feel like his actual solving is generally wrong

Like, maybe if teacher is scum? that would be redemptive for him. but he's basically been sitting on the same poe all day UNTIL you claimed cop at which point he went for a dive

like he is posting a lot but I don't feel like his posting or interaction is really consistently leading him in new directions or he is clearly reevaluating

so I want something other than just "he posts a lot" to understand why he is town if he is

[Detective Pikachu]

@Mod, V/LA Friday-Monday

[Detective Pikachu]

and the answer to this is to vote me?

yeah if you're a wagon people might actually be bothered to towncase you instead of just throwing you somewhere in their list that means they don't have to say anything

[Detective Pikachu]

at least teacher and Buj have done that.

looks like my read was right on you earlier.

where? teacher literally just said he's sheeping me on you when I have basically said nothing interesting about you so I don't know what's going on there so what are you talking about?

[Detective Pikachu]

There are good reasons to suspect nero.

this is your top defender? I know this is out of context and he doesn't conclude you should be voted but this is NOT a towncase

[Detective Pikachu]

at least teacher and Buj have done that.

one of them just said you're reasonably scummy
one of them just said they'd rather sheep someone who has no read on you over themselves

so... what the fuck is with this reaction?

[Detective Pikachu]

teacher says if sho is town then you're scum and buj says you're like mid range scummy

I'm looking for a fucking town case dude. People earlier were saying you're sortable off activity, you JUST said you're sortable off meta, but what is this meta tell you believe people should be finding in you?

[Detective Pikachu]

yeah you can go, this is an awful reaction to my vote

[Detective Pikachu]

Some of them claim to be in this game, sure would be nice of them to towntell by towncasing you near end of day huh?

Not "eh not today" casing you, TOWNCASING you. People say you are readable on meta I want to know HOW

[Detective Pikachu]

Yeah I've thought your almost total lack of reevaluation on me has been kinda lazy all day, looking through your iso and seeing your poe remain basically unchanged for 1000 posts is kinda ???, your random switch on Shoshin doesn't look great. And now you fucking try to poison the well that EVER reconsidering you means I'm fucking omgusing?

Congratulations, you're now the lynch today

[Detective Pikachu]

Trying to sort Nero day 1 is a crapshoot.

I wouldn't advise it.

Yeah but now unlike literally everyone else in this game I'm totally indifferent to the risk of him being a mislynch so this is now the least risky option in the entire pool. I'd prefer he flip scum but he can go either way.

[Detective Pikachu]

If he's town he's probably just as likely to cost us the game as if he was a fourth scum, and I see no problem with just believing he's scum right now.

Unload the baggage so the rest of the town can carry = least risky option

[Detective Pikachu]

lol, he's just scum nom

nom literally just said you can't be sorted day 1 but you insist you're an easy read off meta. What I'm wondering is why do you think my trying to actually sort out those sorts of contradictions is the scummy position?

>bujaber says you're kinda scummy
>teacher says he'd rather sheep people who basically have you as null
>nom says you can't be sorted day 1
>skitter thinks you might be scum
>shoshin thinks you're likely scumy

so excuse me but if you're so sortable on meta why is no one reading you as town right now then? why do YOU not want this sorted out?

[Detective Pikachu]

you couldn't even carry my golf bag

I was even still thinking you had an above average chance of flipping town and basically was inviting people to towntell and you come out with this complete bullshit reaction. I'm sorry when does town ever look at someone saying "please meta case this slot for town" and accuse the person doing so of being scum? If you were at all confident in people's meta reads of you then you could just simply explain how to meta read you. Instead you're acting like I declared a crusade or something

[Detective Pikachu]

That's a gross assessment given that the last time I played with Nero he was the person that managed to make himself known as the obvtown slot on a LYLO and allowed me to basically solve early on.

If it wasn't for a personal grudge from another person we would have won that game.

Nero is good in those spots. His alignment will be clear as day eventually.

I really dislike that you've been going for "the least risky slots" because that was your rationale to go for EvilDeanius too in the first place.

yeah but you LOST the game because he is impossible to work with.

notice the part where you LOST the game

and yeah, on day 1 I very often go for "least risky slots" because it's day 1. if I think the gamestate will be more easily readable with a slot that I don't think can be solved for town then I will go for that slot if I don't have any strong scumreads. and at this point Nero isn't really "null" because his reaction to my push was completely awful

no one is particularly interested in you even though your white knighting him here is again pinging me. you're basically arguing that his alignment should be ignored because you think that he can be useful later, while critiquing me for thinking he's not being useful right now. But you are not arguing for him being town which means you are not evaluating him based on alignment, but choosing to then take pot shots at me for thinking he has a decent chance of being scum and not being useful as town. Who is being less objective in that scenario?

You want him to be town? towncase him.

[Detective Pikachu]

?????

I have no fucking clue what you on about? You said no one has presented a town case, I said that's not true and now you are claiming that I'm trying to shut down meta cases or some weird thing.

NO
ONE
TOWNCASED
YOU

No one argued for you being locktown. I wasn't looking for half-assed quasi-null/leanscum reads. NONE of those things you linked are TOWNCASES

How can you be so dense you don't understand what a towncase is? How is this an actual thought process you are having right now?

I want someone to come in and say you are LOCK TOWN based on META because that is exactly what you say you should be based on your own META.

You think you should be locktown? Towncase yourself. Presumably you, if no one else actually agrees, thinks you are readable off meta.

[Detective Pikachu]

personally, I think I'm an easy read. And there ARE ppl that I think that are really good at reading me (Nancy, Mastina etc.)

Nancy who townread you in BTE when you were scum?

That Nancy, right?

The one who said you were an easy meta townread and then proceeded to give a lazy meta townread and then ended up being wrong?

[Detective Pikachu]

all I did was say that ppl had been towncasing me.

And then you poisoned the well and omgus'd me when I was barely even scumreading you. How exactly is that NOT interfering with my push to get people to take stances on your alignment?

[Detective Pikachu]

I'm not going to towncase him. He's a big boy. He doesn't need me. All I'm saying is that NC is a bad day 1 lynch. So are people like URAP. These two guys will have their alignment in the open clear as day soon.

If this is your thought process about active players why exactly were you so opposed to lynching a slot like EvilDeanius? You seemed really bothered by me pushing there but effectively you are right now arguing that inactive slots should be lynched day 1 over active slots because active slots will be readable in time. So why exactly were you opposed to ED at that time?

[Detective Pikachu]

"I can see why some people would think he is scum but he is not scum" - said BuJaber

"BuJaber called nero midrange scum" - said People who "can" read.

OK let's look at your post since apparently Nero thinks it's a towncase

He has the same sort of antagonistic ignore scumreads attitude

There are good reasons to suspect nero. Maybe more so from my pov than anyone else's with my history of interacting with nero.

But both he and I have evolved our game,

he's just as human as the rest of us and because of that I think any sort of read that centers around activity or his more passive approach to pushing scumreads might not actually be AI.

So I guess it boils down to I don't hate everything he's done this game

THERE ARE WAY SCUMMIER SLOTS THAT HE HIMSELF HAS PUSHED

>He didn't ignore my scumread, in fact he had a wildly scummy overreaction to it
>you accept there are good reasons to suspect Nero
>you accept his play can change over time
>you accept activity is not in itself AI for him
>you "dont hate everything he's done this game"
>you argue "there are way scummier slots"

So let me ask you Bujaber

is this "a towncase"?

do you think I am scum for not reading this as "a towncase" and not thinking I should be convinced that he is town based on this argument when Nero's self-defense is "people can townread me from meta" when you actually argue against that central point through the ideas you're expressing here?

[Detective Pikachu]

DP does it because I nailed the scumteam in page 12 and he doesn't want people to know my reads are good.

Your page 12 solve has at most 2 scum in it and very likely between 1 and 0, but that's okay because that's par for your day 1 play. Acting like you're gods gift to scumhunting is not a good look when you are barely interacting with people at all in real time and asking very few actually interesting questions which is atypical of you.

You're getting really good at wagging your dick around though in a game with 0 flips. Accuse me of not being able to "read" again and I'll just write you off as a "might as well be scum" read and stop caring about your alignment. Be more of a douche and see if it helps my ability to read you.

[Detective Pikachu]

teacher's defense of shoshin despite him having a scumread on her is just incomprehensible.

I'm not sure why? Teacher is a very 'safe' player and he doesn't want to lynch a cop claim day 1 even if he has doubts about the slot. He's not so confident in the flip that he would lynch through a pr claim. Scum can make this sort of excuse, sure, but he would probably make it most of the time as town too. I feel like you're hung up on this point more for playstyle tbh

[Detective Pikachu]

I think DP as scum, wants people to not follow my read because they may influence people to vote him. That would be a reasonably probable scum agenda if I am right about him.

I feel like I've been pretty clear that I don't want people following your reads because I don't really agree with them.

I feel pretty strong on urap town. I could be wrong, in which case he's played an unusually strong scum game fmpov. Given he would not have guessed exactly what I would prioritize in my read, I find it surprising he would have presented his townreads in the way that he did.

I know I'm town.

You argue salad is a scum candidate. I mean, sure? But I read all of his town games and he has no scum games and I don't really feel like you can confidently say you're separating his new qualities and unfamiliarity with site expectations of scumhunting. I don't feel like tonally he's off his town game and the only thing in his play that threw me was choosing to do a list basically because I did a list and then not including me on the list. That was kinda odd, but I don't think it makes him scum, and I'm not really sure why you get to him scum. I can't say you're categorically wrong here because I have no scum game to look at and I have no idea what his actual scum range is or how well he would respond to coaching. Not enough intel. But I feel like he basically just wants to work toward a consensus and move on with the day which seems on the +townie side?

Teacher is the one that I am most likely to be wrong about here. I kinda? think he's town. Partly that's because, let me alt slip a little here, I have mislynched Teacher as scum before, and the arguments people are making about him are *very* similar to the arguments I used to get him mislynched. So the "he's sheeping people too much" sort of arguments don't really do it for me because that's literally how I *have* mislynched Teacher. That doesn't make him town but it makes me nervous about the push on him. I still think he's a hard read but I feel like his desire to form cohesion and get a block out of the game could possibly be town indicative.

I don't have a full solve for this game, I don't know who all the scum are, but I'm not looking at your solve and going "yeah actually urap/teacher/salad is probably it". You could have 1 (teacher), you could have 2 (salad/teacher), but I don't really think you have 3 and saying that I'm trying to poison the well against you seems really disingenuous since I feel like I have been really, really clear about how and why I am reading people the way that I am.

Like even if you think I am just wrong about everything I'm kinda at a loss as to why you haven't re-evaluated my slot at all at this point, and frankly you still feel really different from the last time we played together on my other account so yeah, I don't know what's going on with you.

[Detective Pikachu]

buj where are you on vork again?

[Detective Pikachu]

There's a very small part of me that wonders if Vork/Dunn was S/S all along, flubber is a third and they have no idea how to interact with his wagon at l-2, and are just hoping town implodes.

But I also have a really bad habit of townreading people who happen to be online at the same time as me so that's probably just tinfoil that I'll get shit for later cause I'm shading them or whatever

[Detective Pikachu]

Yeah I don't really even hate your teacher push even if I think he's more null and thus flips town slightly more often than scum but not by like, a lot. He's hard to read mostly because he can actually try relatively hard as scum and so I know he has a range, not because I actually dislike almost any of his posts. I honestly kinda feel like your page 12 reads are like 0/4 but I don't want to give you shit about it until I actually see some flips.

What the fuck am I even talking about, Dunn and Vork are both on Flubber, they just are so quiet I forgot. idk that doesn't actually break my tinfoil tho. Just feels weird that I feel like I'm arguing with a bunch of town and all the people on the Flubber wagon are kinda just chilling.

[Detective Pikachu]

urap had vork as strong town too, is that mostly off his early play around RVS?

[Detective Pikachu]

Lying dirtbags

I do townread nero.

to be clear I'm a "lying dirtbag" because I interpreted your position on Nero as one tier off from its actual position?

[Detective Pikachu]

On the plus side cinnamon is now town for reasons other than the miller claim so that's nice.

[Detective Pikachu]

I'm thinking about it

Reread that one thing with nom earlier and I guess it might not be enough

Mostly annoyed that salad/vork/salad are basically relaxing on the wagon while there's a bunch of noise around your slot. I feel like scum like where the attention is right now. If flubber is a bus then I think they're feeling good about it. Doesn't mean he's town tho

Not sure why vork is locktown for you tbh

Like I could hammer and if it flips red evaluate from there but flubber basically made one townie ish post but at this point there's minor reasons to consider a townread on almost every slot. I am pretty ready for the day to end but would much prefer a red flip.

[Detective Pikachu]

That's really optimistic lol

I feel like off gamestate there's probably one scum in vork/dunn/salad even if I'm not sure who is actually individually scummy in that group

like I'm just kinda looking at the wagon and going "dunn was tunneling vork all day and now they are next to each other on the wagon" ... like I don't know it means anything but it kinda is just a "huh so that happened" kinda feeling for me.

I'm not actively scumreading vork so much as feeling like I don't know why he's being townread -- I know you said you liked his early RVS interactions but I don't really know why they're outside his scumrange? I basically just feel like I can think of more reasons to townread a lot of people, including like, Flubber lol. I also feel like flubber/nom felt kinda good to me whereas vork/nom felt kinda gross

there is a problem tho that I basically can't be online tomorrow so I probably should just intent so this day ends without skitter pulling a cfd on you or something. I'm not lockscum on flubber but I'm not strongly opposed to him being a poe lynch and I'm really opposed to you going today so *shrug*

[Detective Pikachu]

First this:

Vorkuta (4):

skitter30, Dunnstral, nomnomnom,
teacher

u r a person 2 (1):

Nero Cain

teacher (1):

Cinnamon

nomnomnom (1):

Vorkuta

Detective Pikachu (1):

NerfedBuJ

NerfedBuJ (1):

u r a person 2

EvilDeanius (1):

Detective Pikachu

Not Voting (3):

EvilDeanius, Flubbernugget,
Saladman27

With

13

alive, it takes

7

to hammer.
Day 1 ends in

(expired on 2019-06-22 09:30:00)

I also might add that it adds up to NC's earlier argument for a teacher scumread that his vote served no true purpose and was a placeholder so yeah, this is definitely the kind of thing that catches my attention. Skitter tends to be highly respected in these games and I think it could play a huge psychological factor in people's decision making here.

Hmmmm.

You seem to acknowledge to a similar degree what I was getting at, but still come to a wildly different conclusion. I'd love to talk about this but honestly I don't wven know what to ask

Then, basically just page 35:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=850

Like flubber/nom is pretty clearly not s/s at the very least, but beyond that flubber feels slightly different than his scum games. Not wildly outside and not enough that I wouldn't hammer him but enough that I feel some pause here.

[Detective Pikachu]

but yeah he doesn't really have a lot of town posts in the last 60 pages

//

man reading Nero on page 35 makes me cringe

this is kinda a delayed OMGUS vote but its kinda off b/c it seems like a pressure vote? Like Nom thought urap was scum for awhile and then started town reading him.

he has been pushing "delayed omgus" as explanations for half his scumreads this game, what the hell? like "omgus" is practically nai in the first place, and "delayed omgus" is moon logic BS if I ever saw it. Feels more like scum goading on 1v1s than an actual thought process town would have

[Detective Pikachu]

salad could plausibly flip scum, reading newbies is hard. but his desire to form consensus and move on with the game seems +townie to me. I wouldn't like, bet money on him being town, but I don't really see why he's scum?

[Detective Pikachu]

How did she even win a best scum scummie?

Nero's immediate go-to for any pressure on him is toxic AtE. I've seen way more toxic AtE from scum lately than from town.

[Detective Pikachu]

People who CAN'T be scum together:

Skitter / teacher
Vork / nero
Nom / sho (wow if this is true though am I right, goddamn kodak and scum award for both)

I think I had one or two more hang on

this is really townie reaching tbh

[Detective Pikachu]

What does this mean

Buj probably town cause I don't think scum just randomly pulls that out of their butt lol

Like if my other reads are garbo I think I can go Cinnamon / NerfedBuJ / skitter30 / u r a person 2 as towncore even if they all think the rest of the block is scum

[Detective Pikachu]

Cinnamon only one I'm even maybe wrong on there and I think I'm right most of the time on him

[Detective Pikachu]

The fact the shoshin got run up despite ed and salad being equally likely suggests salad is scum

ED's posts were pure fluff, salad's kinda looked (maybe?) like newbie solving, like

there wasn't a LOT in each of the isos

but you kinda have consistently acted like each iso was just 'the same' because they were short

also

ED IS SHO?

so what the fuck? do you remember who all is which slot?