BTE: Boon Wars - The Boondom Menace

[Something_Smart]

Fuck not in the game with Alisae

This is how I feel, except with Dr Worm.

[Something_Smart]

Hi I’m ascetic

VOTE: krazy

Why'd you pick an ascetic role?

[Something_Smart]

dr worm has very graciously given me the singleball game

Yeah, that's kinda what I expected I feel pretty much the same way, and ngl I did not realize there'd be a multiball game even though it's obvious in retrospect.

(But still... it's not every day you get to play mafia with a REAL WORM!!!)

[Something_Smart]

Also damn. When you guys started talking about the Star Wars movies I didn't think it was possible for the thread to be any more sidetracked.

Then you started talking about the Star Wars games

[Something_Smart]

You might not like the “sidetracked” nature of this but it’s important. This is a Star Wars themed game and I take Star Wars very seriously. I will not give any other game content until I get an ordered list of the films from everyone. Or at least a mention of your thoughts on the franchise like X gave.

Dude I know you're here to have fun, and I respect that. But if you want to do nothing but talk about Star Wars, there's all of GD to do that.

For sure, I'm not AGAINST talking about Star Wars. I know that part of the fun of a theme game is bantering about the theme. But you have to also be playing the game.

[Something_Smart]

The problem with that, DEB, is that I don't reward bad behavior.

You're new, and you're clearly just starting to learn what's acceptable and what's unacceptable on the site.

I'll save you some time. This is unacceptable.

[Something_Smart]

Asking a question's not unacceptable, it's refusing to participate in the game at all until everyone answers that's the problem.

Like I said, I'm all for playing to have fun. But what you're doing is REFUSING to play in order to have fun. Go ahead and ask the question, banter about Star Wars to your heart's content. I have no issue at all with it... as long as you are playing the game at the same time.

[Something_Smart]

It’s D1, what else am I supposed to do?

Well, that's the eternal question of mafia, isn't it.

For sure, it can be possible to read into fluff posting. But I don't really think that's what you were trying to do, because you pretty clearly suggested that you'll get into more game-related content once you finish with this.

Sorry if you think I'm talking down to you, I admit that my tone was harsher than it needed to be. I certainly don't think any less of you as a person, but like I said, I don't think you've quite grasped the team element of mafia yet.

You signed up to play a game. You should be playing it, no ifs ands or buts.

[Something_Smart]

In my experience on this site, if I don’t do something drastic people tend to ignore my questions. This whole thing is just wasting time. If everyone just gave me a list we could move on. It’s one post. I shouldn’t have to simultaneously “play the game” and get lists, because this shouldn’t take up much game time. Just put down your list and we can get back to your regularly scheduled programming.

But why waste the time at all? Just jump in and start playing. Try to get in people's heads, figure out how they might think as town or scum, ask probing questions.

Yeah, there's a phase at the beginning of the game where there is no information. But the way we get out of that phase is just by trying to create information. That attempt, in itself, creates information.

[Something_Smart]

how dare we have fun whilst playing a game right? fuck us.
it's page 6 of a star wars themed game, theres going to be some star wars discussion.
lighten up

Despite my best efforts to be clear, you misunderstand me. I have no issue with Star Wars discussion. I have issue with him holding it over everyone's head like a carrot on a stick.

Also, DEB, this discussion IS game-related. It's not a waste of time. In addition to hopefully helping you become a better player (and maybe helping me become more tolerant as well), it should be producing content off which we both can be read.

[Something_Smart]

Here we go again. Why do you just assume I’m a bad player? Is it just because I don’t conform to the way you think Mafia should be played? There’s more than one way to skin a cat.

Sure, there are definitely a lot of different ways to play. But not all of them are equally effective.

Because you're a new player, you're not necessarily bad. But you are necessarily inexperienced, and part of gaining experience is learning which playstyles are effective and which are not. In my experience, the way you're playing has not proven to be effective.

[Something_Smart]

i'll claim this now.
i'm informed town.
it's fairly cryptic, but its basically in the future, there is fire and ice.
we (being me and worm) think it's a reference to this setup https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Fire_and_Ice possibly in relation to the episode 2 multiball game. so there it folks, maybe someone can get use out of it.

Could be a hint about the third game as well. Though, I hope that one isn't also multiball.

[Something_Smart]

There hasn't been a multiball Boon game in a while. BTE = BoonyToonz Extravaganza which was singleball, and also you weren't in it.

[Something_Smart]

The only multiball Boon game I've played in was Boon Island (BTVI)... and it was a shitshow.

[Something_Smart]

By the way DEB, and I don't want to get into this much, but if you don't like VT you're gonna have a hard time on this site. Role madness games are somewhat rare and they're often less strategic and less balanced. If you only play them you'll never learn to scumhunt.

[Something_Smart]

Well, with that attitude you're never going to improve.

But I'll stay out of your business, if you firmly insist this is the best you can possibly be.

[Something_Smart]

Sure.

Revenge of the Sith
Rogue One
A New Hope
The Phantom Menace
Return of the Jedi
The Empire Strikes Back
The Last Jedi
Attack of the Clones
The Force Awakens

I haven't seen many of them in years, though.

[Something_Smart]

Correct.

And it's actually a really shitty list, I don't remember a lot of the details so I'm mostly just going off of plot.

[Boonskiies]

No offense to Xtoxm, you are awesome, but there is a reason I wanted to be in Dr Worm's game

That was easily the best thing I've seen all day.

All week.

[Something_Smart]

I can see sc1 has left some scars

also vt is best role. Ahh the pleasure of being n1'd for reads/being too obvtown

Sc1? If that refers to Starcraft 1, I wasn't in that.

[Something_Smart]

Well, I can be a weird fella

I mean, you clearly have an overinflated ego. It does explain why you're friends with Boon.

oww

[Something_Smart]

Well, I can be a weird fella

I mean, you clearly have an overinflated ego. It does explain why you're friends with Boon.

oww

<3

[Something_Smart]

Plot twist: for every list completed he gains a boost to the delusion that other players are monkeys that he can make dance for his amusement.

[Something_Smart]

Joan. Claim the exact name of your role.

[Something_Smart]

Of course not, does she look like Roger of Arc?

[Something_Smart]

Is that a real question?

Yeah it was a real question. He said he wanted to be in this game to avoid the "unique mechanic."

[Something_Smart]

DEB, do you believe Joan's claim?

[Something_Smart]

DEB, do you believe Joan's claim?

Not one bit, Krazy really made it clear in this post I feel:

Like, she's not an idiot. She can read a role card. She was softing something that was NOT friendly neighbor, realized if she kept softing that bullshit she was going to get lynched, and literally just changed claims.

The only thing Krazy made clear in that post was his confirmation bias. That post provides an explanation for her actions (and not a very GOOD one, because I think she's been around the block a few times when it comes to softing), but it doesn't provide any reason why that explanation is more likely than an alternative.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah, it does. I have seen scum claim friendly neighbor to get out of a D1 lynch, too. And-- spoiler alert-- it didn't work out very well for him. And he was at L-1 with intent, way more pressure than Joan was under.

The thing is, Joan started softing reflexive before she was under any pressure at all. That makes me think that the reflexive part, at least, is true. Now that makes me wonder what scum reflexive role she'd soft as, because there probably aren't many.

As for the reflexive friendly neighbor, well, that's something that's EXTREMELY easy to verify. Much easier than a regular friendly neighbor, because she can't hide behind "oh I targeted the guy who died."

And finally, she was dodgy about her claim, but I don't really understand the perception that she "changed" it. She claimed reflexive, then she claimed friendly neighbor, then she claimed reflexive friendly neighbor. She only clarified it, never changed it.

[Something_Smart]

The thing about distrusting the easy way out is that sometimes it's true. It's right to be skeptical of it-- but skeptics seek verification, they don't automatically assume something's false because it doesn't feel right.

[Something_Smart]

Perfect! We know exactly who you can target now

Is there a reason for the two of you to not claim your flavor?

[Something_Smart]

Boon has banned PGO, that role sounds like something on the same level, so I seriously doubt he'd put that in.

Probably your visitor is meant to interact with reflexive roles, like Joan's.

[Something_Smart]

This game's not multiball. The other one is.

You people should read the OP's.

[Something_Smart]

Pardon the angleshot, but Chara's town.

[Something_Smart]

Pardon the angleshot, but Chara's town.

You’ve come to that conclusion with only one post to work off of?

Technically, yes, but not the post you're probably thinking of.

[Something_Smart]

I'm actually not crumbing lol, just wanted to see if anyone else would see what I was referring to.

[Something_Smart]

Look at post 487 in the other game.

[Something_Smart]

I don't see why A50 would lie about something like that.

[Something_Smart]

about almost and chara how is them being same character in flavor has any meaning regarding alignment

Because what he said was wrong. I asked and it was random which Ep. 1 roles were paired with which Ep. 2 roles, which means that it's highly unlikely that the same scum character in both games will have the same fakeclaim in both games. But they would have to, because A50 would never say that if they had the same scum character with different fakeclaims-- they'd be outed upon claiming.

So therefore, Occam's razor says that they most likely have the same town character in both games.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, uh, don't fake confirm a friendly neighbor as a rule of thumb.

There are a lot of people in this game and Joan isn't even scummy, I don't see why we can't give her multiple nights if necessary.

[Something_Smart]

Not as dead as Myers-Briggs is.

[Something_Smart]

Zulfy, if your flavor's not from the movie, then what is it from?

[Something_Smart]

Okay, I think it's just a misunderstanding then. Boon might very well have created a few variant roles that were named after movie things, but for the most part when people say their "role is from the movie" they mean their flavor character. I think the Han thing was just a poorly executed joke.

[Something_Smart]

deb, you were exempted from my d1 pool bc i liked your star wars analysis and i dont like going for the loudest player on d1
but if you keep rolefishing you can go

This is the same shit you pulled in Last Night Tomorrow, you're conflating genuine interest in mechanics with rolefishing.

There are plenty of reasons to ask about roles, as both alignments, that are not rolefishing-- it's only rolefishing if the information gained directly helps scum in a specific way. I was scum in LNT and you were still wrong in saying I was rolefishing when asking for a weak investigative claim.

DEB is confused because he doesn't know the difference between friendly neighbor and neighbor. He's asking for a clarification on what's already been stated. That isn't rolefishing.

[Something_Smart]

I wasn't rolefishing though. If your argument is "scum ask people about their roles relatively more frequently than town" then yes, what I did there would serve as evidence, but you'd need a lot more than one data point before that claim is compelling.

But if your argument is "asking people about their roles is relatively more likely to be scum rolefishing" then no, it isn't evidence, because I wasn't scum rolefishing there.

[Something_Smart]

I forgot Something_Smart was in the game. NAGL.

I forgot you were in the game

[Something_Smart]

I’ll never be a part of this whole “whew I got page top!” thing because I sort my posts in the other direction, newest first.

This explains why your posts always read as though your brain is hopelessly muddled

[Something_Smart]

I'm just messing with you

Reading posts newest first seems totally backwards to me and it seems like a great way to keep yourself from understanding the thread.

[Something_Smart]

V/LA until Sunday

[Something_Smart]

RCE, do you like being scum?

[Something_Smart]

Also to RCE, did you and Ausuka decide your games before you got your role PM's?

[Something_Smart]

Was that before or after role PM's were given?

[Something_Smart]

Aight thanks.

[Something_Smart]

Do you want anything from me before I go? You have about an hour.

[Something_Smart]

It is allowed to give thoughts to your partner and have them post them, though they need to be paraphrased. This is based off of Team Mafia where it wasn't legal to talk directly about the other games at all, but you could still share what your teammates thought about your game.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Xtoxm

What do you think about his claim?

[Something_Smart]

i'll claim this now.
i'm informed town.
it's fairly cryptic, but its basically in the future, there is fire and ice.
we (being me and worm) think it's a reference to this setup https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Fire_and_Ice possibly in relation to the episode 2 multiball game. so there it folks, maybe someone can get use out of it.

[Something_Smart]

You say while voting the guy who has not once in three and a half years onsite been easier to read under pressure.

If I'm not playing, it's because I'm disengaged. Is there something you want to talk about?

[Something_Smart]

Creature complained that I wasn't doing anything, and then when I asked what he wanted to talk to me about, he didn't answer.

Doesn't make him not town, but that's a questionable vote to be sheeping.

[Something_Smart]

Is that really scum indicative though? Like, he's assuming responsibility for it. If he were scum couldn't he just sit on it and let someone else get blamed for it?

[Something_Smart]

Interestingly, I was just about to say that that logic doesn't apply if he's bussing, although I doubt Krazy is that bus-happy.

[Something_Smart]

Most of my townreads are not voting ;-;

[Something_Smart]

I'm expecting it to pick up tomorrow.

Zulfy should probably claim.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah, although I noticed after I said that that Chara is voting now.

[Something_Smart]

That tell really isn't as accurate anymore.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, you could also make the simpler argument that Creature probably wouldn't pick scum unless forced to.

I don't disagree with your conclusion, but I think your black and white reasoning is pretty shallow.

[Something_Smart]

Can we do the best with what we have BEFORE our attention has to be split between... everything?

Only if we actually have stuff to talk about.

[Something_Smart]

Hold the phone.

[Something_Smart]

Why not let him claim?

[Something_Smart]

I believe in second chances.

I really want to see his claim.

[Something_Smart]

@Someone who's voting Zulfy: PLEASE unvote. I have a very strong and specific reason for wanting this.

[Something_Smart]

It has to do with his claim.

[Something_Smart]

He's Dr Easy Bake. He doesn't have time to consider the wishes of others.

[Something_Smart]

Probably better to have no opinion at all than to have one based on shallow reasoning and insist that it's rock-solid. But as long as you recognize it, it's okay.

[Something_Smart]

DEB, as much as I am honored to be quoted in your signature, it can't reference ongoing games. You should remove that for now and add it back after the game.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, the quote itself without context is just about me and has nothing to do with the game, is it really that bad? The link doesn't take you to this game or anything. I wouldn't be that dumb or boring.

You're right that it is harmless in this case. However, Chara's also right that the "don't discuss ongoing games" rule is one you should very much stay on the safe side of.

I'd ask a listmod if I were you, they can give you a definitive answer.

[Something_Smart]

OK, well Joan claims to have done an FN thing but it wasn't FA so if someone received a FN message from Joan can they share that with the town?

Indeed I shall!

Joan is confirmed.

[Something_Smart]

anyone who thinks a traitor spends the entire day voting scum has mental deficiencies
zulfys actions make me an ic

No, because Zulfy only knew one of his partners. You could be one he didn't know.

[Something_Smart]

FA should target DEB and Krazy tonight.

[Something_Smart]

To be fair, if your power had no false positives, it would be broken as shit.

[Something_Smart]

That being said I like to announce a Town group of JoA

???

She's a friendly neighbor

[Something_Smart]

I, uh, may have told him not to?

I was trying to avoid giving info away to scum but at this point town needs that info and scum really don't care about it that much.

I hooded him. I wish I'd known there was a PT cop, I wouldn't have targeted someone for interrogation purposes.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah. She can confirm that I told her about targeting Vorkuta before FA claimed, so this isn't some bullshit partner play.

[Something_Smart]

Ss you are not compulsive?

No I'm not compulsive. I'll make sure not to target anyone we might want to check, unfortunately I myself am already not a valid check.

[Something_Smart]

@Someone who's voting Zulfy: PLEASE unvote. I have a very strong and specific reason for wanting this.

you ever gonna explain this

Oh sure.

Refusing to claim when the figurative noose is around your neck is extremely towny. So if he had come in and, under intense pressure, still refused to claim anything, I would have wanted people to back off of him.

Although, obviously, I couldn't say that at the time.

[Something_Smart]

Wait, can't DEB just target ofrhz? It will fail, and then he'll be a valid check, right? I think if your hood action fails the hood never gets created.

[Something_Smart]

deb can do joan, or he could even do ofrhz as well and we could have FA scan him

Yeah I see this now. That seems like clearly the best option, although I am slightly biased from Joan already being confirmed FMPOV.

[Something_Smart]

so thats 3 diff neighboriser claims? i find it to be unlikely these are all town

Just me and DEB. Bins and Joan are just regular neighbors.

[Something_Smart]

Oh, I told Vork to claim hooded. I just didn't want to out that I was the neighborizer, if I didn't have to

I very much prefer to keep my cards close to my chest if at all possible. Especially in the case where Vork, Joan, and Bins all already knew my role and could vouch for it later if people were really doubtful.

[Something_Smart]

What's mechanically dubious about it? We talked about PT copping DEB and as a result he claimed a role that it's impossible to get a good PT cop result on. If we could find a way to make that work, would it not be worth our while?

Pedit: if I was discussed as a possible check, then yeah, but I hadn't been and I didn't think I would be necessarily be.

[Something_Smart]

Any information I neglect to share now I can always choose to share later, but I can't change my mind and take something back once it's been claimed. So I'm very much a "need-to-know basis" kind of player in that regard.

[Something_Smart]

Hmm

Mostly cause I think town you knows a fn double checked is way better than an ascetic check since one tells us an alignment and the other doesn't. I know fypov joan is already confirmed but even so... Meh

The point of sending DEB to ofrhz isn't to confirm ascetic. It's so FA can check DEB.

And statistically speaking, it's likely scum will kill me or Joan before LYLO, so the double friendly neighbor confirm really isn't worth that much. Especially from my point of view because I already know it's legit.

[Something_Smart]

what's the result of your vork pt discussion?

He was V/LA for a while so not much. He seems to trust me a lot for reasons I don't really understand (to the best of my knowledge, he's just assuming I'm town because he's screwed anyway if I'm scum and can manipulate him in a hood), and he's also claimed to me.

[Something_Smart]

Deb targets ofrhz tonight, fa does deb tonight, deb does joan tomorrow night, ez

DEB is only one-shot, unfortunately.

How scared are you actually of a me/Joan team?

[Something_Smart]

Would Boon really be so cruel as to have three traitors and make it 10:5?

(Okay, he totally would.)

But regardless, we don't need to lynch traitors to win. So the innos are pretty good, at least for now.

[Something_Smart]

I don't like the hood claim even though I'm inclined to believe SS.

I mean the hood is incontrovertible; Joan can confirm I'm a neighborizer and I claimed my target on Vork at the beginning of the day.

Now, that doesn't make him town, of course.

[Something_Smart]

I'm split, obviously (because I targeted multiple players last night), and I'm X-shot. That's it.

[Something_Smart]

I'd rather just holster tbh.

[Something_Smart]

Oops.

[Something_Smart]

feel like as a neighborizor usually I would target people I townread strongly and think I can solve with so yeah, idk

Well, so I intended to use it for sorting. Actually, initially my plan was to do a gambit where I claimed traitor and that I knew my hoodmate was mafia and tried to get them to admit being scum, but uh, then two traitors flipped. So I was initially going to run that gambit on Vork but I figured after the RCE flip he would never buy it.

[Something_Smart]

Hood has been completely dead though...

[Something_Smart]

Ripski.

I will be saving my last shot until we get a scumflip, since there are hopefully only two scum left.

[Something_Smart]

Nah, I only had one left to begin with. I didn't act.

[Something_Smart]

Watchers don't normally see themselves.

I really don't see why FA would check Titus and Joan, two people she already had info on. So either she didn't submit, or she was roleblocked N1 and Titus is scum IMO.

[Something_Smart]

Although, I don't see why she would target Joan either, since that just seems like a waste of a shot. I guess because according to her role PM if one target was in a PT and the other wasn't, she would not be told which was which, so she targeted someone she knew for sure was in a PT so that she'd know for sure what the result of the other shot was.

[Something_Smart]

Creature said she should check joan to confirm she was not being roleblocked each night. I disagreed but fa never said she disagreed.

was Joan ever neighborized or something?

Joan is a neighbor and was neighborized twice, lol.

[Something_Smart]

I mean Shiro is supersaint so we can get them both at once if we want.

I think Titus first is probably better though.

[Something_Smart]

Also wait a minute.

@Boon: If a player is confabulating, and they target a player with no PT, would a tracker see them visit that player?

[Something_Smart]

Obviously would've preferred Titus first if Shiro didn't claim supersaint.

This is why I still prefer Titus first.

And no, I don't think she did.

[Something_Smart]

If confabulating works like loyal/disloyal/simple/complex do, then actually they're both scum.

[Boonskiies]

dawg i already asked this and he answered yes it would show

(even tho I wholeheartedly disagree that it should, fine)

Oh, so you did.

I'm honestly pretty sure Boon makes this stuff up on the spot tbh. There isn't any consistency.

That’s what the mutation of BooneyToonz section is for. Duh.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, if FA would only be seen visiting someone in a PT, then either you're in a PT and Titus killed FA, or she's in a PT and you killed FA.

Irrelevant though, because it doesn't work like that.

[Something_Smart]

me being alive at endgame is autowin for town.

Huh?

[Something_Smart]

Nice.

It's a shame, my traitor gambit would have been great if the traitors didn't die so early