Newbie 1943: Crosswords (Game Over)

[Spangled]

Hello! I'm your resident SE!

What's your experience with Mafia?

Hello there.

I've played one scum game here, and none town, thus I'm quite inexperienced - I'll do my best though
Yourself?

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VOTE: teacher
What are you willing to bet circumstances are reversed this time?

[Spangled]

Hello there.

I've played one scum game here, and none town, thus I'm quite inexperienced - I'll do my best though
Yourself?

I've played a few games here, and have tried epicmafia once.

Spoiler:

What have you played outside of the Newbie Queue?

VOTE: Cyan Talon tell me if i do better this time

Ah good, I was worried we weren't doing RVS for whatever reason

[Spangled]

starting to think my timezone dose not match most people eastern time zone whats your guys time zones?

That makes you UTC-5 (for reference) - I'm UTC+9.

[Spangled]

Seeing as you still seem to be up and around, could you give us some early reads, Cyrus?

[Spangled]

Sup

The ceiling is up.

[Spangled]

VOTE: Robbnva

The selfvote was RvS btw if that wasnt clear, I earlier said I had a redcheck on myself and wanted to know how to vote remember?

But Robb's reaction to RvS is a big overreact

Why would scum have a strong reaction to self-voting? He'd love it; it means the town is being silly and he'd be fine with that. Only town care if fellow townies are stupid.

Sorry for late entrance. This game started when I was asleep. I'm new to the forum and I have played mafia on 2 other forums.

Anyone else seeing what I'm seeing in this post?

[Spangled]

If you looked at the fight he and I had, you’d probably agree town teacher would stay away from me. So I don’t believe town teacher votes me until he has a reason to do so.

Scum teacher definitely doesn't vote you, though - he'd know it would get him lynched. As scum you like confusion, but not attention on yourself - which a fight with you would definitely cause.

It's too early to tell if teacher's slot is scum.

Pedit: Yes.

[Spangled]

Scum teacher definitely doesn't vote you, though - he'd know it would get him lynched.

Explain this. How would teacher voting me get him lynched?

He knows you're a tunneller, and a good one at that. He has played with you before. No one targets a tunneller; it's utterly foolish; a good way to get lynched. His post might have been a bad attempt at humour, but I think it was one nevertheless.

To everyone else:
I don't think anything Robb's done so far is particularly scummy. I have only played one game with him, and he did replace out, but I think I played enough with him to know that how he's playing this game is his town self; brash and confident. He's quick to form reads, and sticks with them. I will say I haven't played with scum!Robb, but this Robb feels like town!Robb.

[Spangled]

Or at the very least NAI Robb.

[Spangled]

VOTE: Phone0Ix

back, and why is the cop claim self-voting

he said it was a rvs vote trying to get a laugh.

W-wat

No idiot would self-vote for RVS and claim to be the cop at the same time. Ph0enix, please do something a little more useful.

I'm not really sure he gets what RVS is: a way of applying pressure.

[Spangled]

Adorable's giving me towny vibes, especially #85.

#69 feels a little awkward, but in a newb!town way.

[Spangled]

He knows you're a tunneller, and a good one at that. He has played with you before. No one targets a tunneller; it's utterly foolish; a good way to get lynched. His post might have been a bad attempt at humour, but I think it was one nevertheless.

But nobody ever lynches who I say. My tunnels usually go nowhere.

Maybe, but he still wouldn't want attention on him. He'd probably let you turn your attention to someone else, thinking you would eventually, or at least wait.

Besides, what was he hoping to gain out of it? What responses might you have had, besides making up with him, or what you did?
There are only two responses you were likely to make; neither would have made confusion. He replaced out when he didn't get the result he wanted; you making up with him. That is not the action of scum wanting confusion; he'd stay in, having got what he wanted.

Besides, if you tunnel the slot, you'll be creating confusion; exactly what he would want if he's scum. If you think he is scum, don't give into it; take your time, wait. Wait 'till the slot slips up and

then

pounce.

Pedit:
I have more of an NAI lean on Robb; a not-proven-guilty outlook, because half the PL seems to think he is, and I really don't. Okay, maybe it is a townlean then.

I don't really have many other opinions (besides on Adorable); I'm bad at forming reads.
Maybe slight townlean on you or Cyan, but they are the slightest of slight, and mostly because I feel you're contributing somewhat...

[Spangled]

But then again, your spam doesn't necessarily make you town, cyrus.

[Spangled]

Adorable's giving me towny vibes, especially #85.

#69 feels a little awkward, but in a newb!town way.

Although maybe it's just because of the slightly-poorly-phrased sentence there.

[Spangled]

spangled ask red and ask cyan i always spam alot .. most of it is me thinking and posting my own thoughts. i am trying to slow the spam though as i am learning and trying to use better wording i been called unstable illogical and i liability by teacher so yes i am trying to improve and help more.

Could you give me a link to a scumgame of yours?

Phone could be newb!scum for me, but he could also be newb!town.
I am tending toward scum, though; his awkwardness hopping on the Robb wagon and his bad logic in doing so. The fact that he unvoted shortly after is NAI to me, but it doesn't clear him of the sheer, unadulterated

awkwardness

of his ISO.
I know it's Day 1, but I think I will go ahead and VOTE: Phone0Ix

Pedit:
Some of those fast votes were really suss, especially Phone's for me.
Pedit 2:
I think it's slightly town indicative; scum are fine with town players being stupid, but only town should react with annoyance.

[Spangled]

Of course, scum can fake annoyance, or be annoyed on principle because it's just silly to self-vote, especially for absolutely no reason.

[Spangled]

I'm not feeling anything much on Lich at the moment. He's scumreading Robb but that's not really a reason to scumread him; it's somewhat understandable but doesn't take into account Robb's meta or his history with teacher.

[Spangled]

For reference for everyone (particularly those scumreading Robb) here's my one and only game with Robb, and here is my and Robb's ISO's respectively from the game. I was scum, he was town.

[Spangled]

Oh, okay. Sorry, cyrus.

Sorry everyone, I think I keep putting general proclamations to the thread at large next to responses to quotes.
I'll try to differentiate better in the future, but I think y'all can sort it out.

[Spangled]

Everyone is scum reading Robb except for two players. I was hoping to hear from Connor but he never came back and this slot will probably get mod killed or subbed out.

Cyan looks like he is just following other players scum reading Robb which looks sus and normally scum follow other players.


VOTE: Cyan Talon

Fixed

Can you scumcase Cyan for us a bit more than that?

VOTE: connorcompton

Not too much feeling Robb scum anymore. Phone is still a bad vote.

Why? Towncase him (Phone) for me, or at least Don't-Lynch-Yet-case him for me.

Too many players have been focusing on Robbnva and the only players who haven't been focusing on him are Spangled, Cyan, Cyrus, and me. A player who is getting focused by multiple players I tend to think that player could be town. If you guys think Robbnva is scum, then that would mean either Spangled or Cyan would be his scum buddy. The interaction between Robbnva and Cyrus doesn't look like a scum pair. I think Robbnva could be town since so many players have been focusing on him.

@cyan and spangled your thoughts on this post please?

Those are solid thoughts, and part of why I'm townreading Adorable. Also generally a good (if not always applicable) theory on players who get a lot of attention (as it were).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FL, you don't have a single helpful post to the town at this point, unless you count voting and then taunting Robb, which at this point I am not.
Please try to scumhunt, and don't hide behind 'but Robb is scum'. If he's scum, then I think he's taking a great effort to play to his town meta. I could be wrong here, but I don't think I am.

By and large, a policy lynch

doesn't help the town.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Robb, do you have a scumgame we could see (just in case)?

[Spangled]

Phone is probably town for meekly unvoting Robb after being pointed out it was L-1

Not sure who FL is in this game but I would rather vote an actual scumread (even if the reasoning is nonsense) over a singleposter

See, that seems to me more of a scummy thing to do - following the crowd, and then when he's told that something else is what he should be doing, just changes it... But then again it could also be newb!town... I am feeling a bit better about him since his most previous vote, and your reasoning does make sense, but I'm keeping my vote there as pressure.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cyan, I will say your ISO is a bit lacking for me, but your reasoning in 177 and 178 and 180 are good - and I'll take cyrus' explanation of your meta over looking over it myself; I don't have that much time and we're in the newbie queue anyway; people's metas aren't established yet (or so I'm lead to believe).

[Spangled]

i think he ment red

When he said FL? Aye, I know; I'm just cramming two sets of posts in one; one post to Red, one to Cyan after looking over his ISO.

[Spangled]

I wasn’t talking to you beetlejuice

Robb you can't complain about his lack of explanation then tell him to piss off when he does try and explain himself.

[Spangled]

I feel somewhat like this is TvT, actually, and Robb, over-aggressiveness and insulting everyone ('town deserves to lose') doesn't help you get your point across; it makes everyone want to not engage with you because they don't want to get yelled at. It also makes people instinctively not want to agree with you because you're personally attacking them.

I see your point on Temporal, Robb, but I don't think it's enough to lynch, especially when connor hasn't posted yet (almost) and no one else has given their perspective on this 1v1.
I do prefer him being lynched to you, but I'm really not sure one scummy post makes him scum, especially when the rest of his ISO isn't that bad.

[Spangled]

Seriously town deserves to lose.

if this is ever town I will be shocked

I don't think scum!Robb is this aggressive or in-your-face.

[Spangled]

He doesn’t even admit his mistake and apologize? Just drops it like it never happened?

Jfc

Just because he didn't explicitly apologise doesn't mean he hasn't realised his mistake. We are trying to play a game at least somewhat civilly, not based on bait and counter-baiting people.

[Spangled]

And he does have some of a point on Cyan. Some.

[Spangled]

What would having him 'on the hook' achieve?
Again, if you think he's scum, wait until he slips up properly.
Don't complain about his bad etiquette; ask him (or others) pointed and game-advancing questions, and don't just blindly insist he's scum.

[Spangled]

Cyan, Adorable, cyrus, FL, connor, can you give us your perspective on this Robb vs. Temporal battle?

[Spangled]

My vote is on the scummiest. Literally nobody scummier than you.

I think the reason that there's no one scummier than Temporal at the moment is because everyone who's really putting effort in (cyrus, Adorable, Robb, Temporal, Cyan) is being fairly townie, with only a few scummy comments. This isn't really a townbloc yet; there are some people who I'm iffy on and/or waiting to see if they slip up, but we need all of the lurkers to get posting.

Because if we go for the scummiest talking people, we might be missing the not-talking, potentially scummy people. Everyone understand?

We still have 8 or so days left, right, y'all? Keep that in mind.


Pedit:
That is true. You're agreeing with Robb there, right?

[Spangled]

And FL is totally ignoring this game; he's playing his others but not this.
I wonder if he's lurking, or if he's just forgotten it exists.

[Spangled]

Oh, wait, we don't have FL, we have RedFlavor.
I just read the Flavor bit it seems
Everything I've said to or about 'FL', please apply it to Red.

[Spangled]

Ah, no, RF is an alt of FL. So.

[Spangled]

Ah, no, RF is an alt of FL. So.

If serious, lynch him even more.

Is Flavor notorious for not playing if he's scum or something?

[Spangled]

Nope, wait, I'm an idiot - FL is not RF. Misread something in one of those mafia discussion threads.
Sorry Red, sorry everyone!

[Spangled]

Mind playing the game, RF?
Starting with reading everything, and giving us your reactions, especially to Robb and Temporal's skirmish?

[Spangled]

I claim cop. My n0 redcheck is on somebody called phone..? Lets wagon him. How can I vote them?

Phone almost definitely does not do this as scum

Why not?

[Spangled]

Still, keeping mine there as a pressure vote. He needs to speak.

[Spangled]

There's nothing to say at this point; we need to get the game going. How does one do that, those more experienced than me?

[Spangled]

like we havent had a vote count in forever so no one knows the wagons right now i know temp voted you red after voteing cyan and then voteing rob and then back to cyan but they stoped on you.

I think the only real wagon is on Robb, but goodness knows how many votes he has left on him at this point.
Pretty sure RF has two votes on him, and I have one on Phone.

[Spangled]

connorcompton
Cyan Talon
TemporalLich (SE)
Robbnva (SE)

I think scumteam is between these people and i think temporal is most likeliest mafia here, least likeliest probably alpha m

Scumcase Cyan and Robb please (and please try and take into account Robb's meta; to not do so is bad play, unless you're suggesting a policy lynch).

[Spangled]

I dont make cases kido

So PoE. Fair enough.

I am seeing scum!Temporal, kind of.
245 in particular, with it's ultra-opportunistic switch from Robb after I finished making a decent argument. I've known the feeling he might have been feeling as scum; wanting to get out of an argument because you know you're losing, and doing it in the way that saves the most face. Aye, I'd accept a Temporal lynch, but I want D1 to take as long as it can before we settle on any kind of lynch candidate.

Also, I want connor and Phone's slots talking.

[Spangled]

like i feel bad temp has me as stoung town

There's this cool thing called pocketing, and Temporal may be doing it to you (although I don't really think so; I have you as town too, but you never know).

[Spangled]

I dont make cases kido

Do you mean you don't make cases in your head, or you won't give us your reasoning?

[Spangled]

i have to ask red why is temp scum and temp why is red scum or phone scum for that matter

That's indicative of refusing to effort and honestly not playing naturally.

Sounds like you're suggesting a policy lynch to me...

@mod, could we have D1 paused until a replacement for connor is found or similar?

Day will be paused until a replacement for connorcompton will be found

[Spangled]

this game is going stale and I can't even form reads from the last few one-line posts anymore

reminds me of my roots of Chatroom Mafia

Yeah I'm just sitting here with some vague townreads, some getting old, but no legitimate lynch candidates or proper scum reads yet. Gah.

[Spangled]

Also, everyone, Baezu said on a game of theirs they'd be V/LA through Sunday, so...
How much time do we have left?

[Spangled]

I still think redflavor is scum, cyan is seeming more townier

Why is Cyan townier? What's townier about his recent posts than the rest of his ISO?

[Spangled]

Funnily enough I still feel like we're in/just out of RVS/RQS mode.
Not much is happening.

[Spangled]

Then it would be sunset for two days

[Spangled]

not discounting phone scum yet, but still feels too early

Aye, he needs to get here and talk. He'd have a few prods by now I think.

[Spangled]

Phone didn't really have a reason at all, and I think his backtracking is NAI. I thought it was scummy, but Red made a good point somewhere about why it could be town indicative.

[Spangled]

We do, I think, there's just not much to say.

[Spangled]

So we should probably find something to spark discussion with.

Starting with, I'd like to actually express some doubts about Cyrus here. While I appreciate that he's towning up, the town game he previously mentioned shows him being all over the place with his words and actions. Oddly, I find him more organized in this game than in that one, and it's pinging a few alarms.

I'm not keen on voting him for just this, since it could also be a result of him improving and not being fed information by a partner, but I really don't know how someone suddenly goes from newbie spewer to town leader level in the interval of, like, 1 game.

This is probably the weakest of things to suspect someone from, but let's talk about Cyrus if it helps.

I do think he's just gotten better and less spammy, as that has been the advice he's gotten at the end/during several of his games. He's played three games since the one he linked, I think.

And he's still spews town to me, looking back.

[Spangled]

Phone's last post was today, when he '/out'ed in a queue...
I'm hoping his replacement will be better.

[Spangled]

I think that could be true. Like we have some SRs/SLs flying round between Temporal, Red, and Robb, but I think they're all

probably

town.
You mean connor/Phone (by people who have replaced out) right?

[Spangled]

I kind of hope it is true actually, and shows itself to be, because if it isn't/doesn't, I don't know where to look for scum.

[Spangled]

What does your name have to do with it?

[Spangled]

Also that sounds like you're referencing ongoing games cyrus, especially if you only have one completed - you know that's against the rules.

[Spangled]

Could be your profile pic... (somehow)
Or your playstyle; lots of people think spammers are scum trying to look like they are contributing.

Pedit:
Who is scumreading you?

[Spangled]

Rereading Adorable's ISO, I'm yet more convinced she's town. I hate to say it again, but #85 and #126 are really towny; I'm not sure scum is capable of having those thoughts.
#318 is a tiny bit awkward, but still generally towny.

[Spangled]

So we should probably find something to spark discussion with.

Starting with, I'd like to actually express some doubts about Cyrus here. While I appreciate that he's towning up, the town game he previously mentioned shows him being all over the place with his words and actions. Oddly, I find him more organized in this game than in that one, and it's pinging a few alarms.

I'm not keen on voting him for just this, since it could also be a result of him improving and not being fed information by a partner, but I really don't know how someone suddenly goes from newbie spewer to town leader level in the interval of, like, 1 game.

This is probably the weakest of things to suspect someone from, but let's talk about Cyrus if it helps.

this one

He's just trying to get discussion rolling, and he has a bit of a point - or would, if meta-ing people in the newbie queue wasn't mostly useless.
I don't think scum are more cool and collected than town though; I disagree with his perspective on that.
But I don't think he thinks you're scum; I think he's just putting ideas out.

Pedit:
I know how to use spoilers, it's like

Code: Select all

[spoiler=title]text in the spoiler[/spoiler]

[Spangled]

if you think about it phone and conner are helping us because the days paused so we have longer to find scum .

But we're kind of spending the time doing nothing.
And if Phone and connor are scum they aren't helping us because we have nothing solid to point at them with.

[Spangled]

Meh I really wish Phone posted more... I'm getting worried phone is scum.

Lol wtf is dis

So you don't think Phone is scum?
If TL is scum - which I'm pretty sure is what you believe - who else do you think is scum?

[Spangled]

k wish some one told me on my 1st game was just trying to help .lol i didnt know how to vote either and had no idea what the rvs was lmao.

On my first game I was scum and just didn't understand what being a member of the town meant. The tracker was modkilled tracking me and a cop got a redcheck on my partner, and I CCed JK. We lost fairly swiftly.

[Spangled]

On my first game I was scum and just didn't understand what being a member of the town meant. The tracker was modkilled tracking me and a cop got a redcheck on my partner, and I CCed JK. We lost fairly swiftly.

The funniest shit I’ve ever seen was the old setups. scum faked cop with guilty on his partner. His partner cc’d. The real cop claimed. It was good times.


As town I had probably one of the best unvotes in the history of this site. I voted and had been refreshing in lylo. First scum voted. I unvoted at the same time scum was trying to hammer. Time stamp was the same. It literally must have been milliseconds.

That is pretty awesome.

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There is nothing to say here, people. We're just waiting for replacements.

[Spangled]

Phone0Ix has requested replacement

And Connor Compton?

Yes. It was in my mod notes in VC 1.01

Newbie 1943: Crosswords, Day 1, Page 15 needs a replacement for connorcompton. This is a newbie slot, so preference will be given to newbies for (expired on 2019-07-07 09:02:00). Send me a PM if you're interested and you are not currently playing your first game of mafia!

Newbie 1943: Crosswords, Day 1, Page 17 needs a replacement for Phone0Ix. This is a newbie slot, so preference will be given to newbies for (expired on 2019-07-08 12:25:00). Send me a PM if you're interested and you are not currently playing your first game of mafia!

[Spangled]

yea connar and phone could be scum maybe as of now both of them are bloging the game now

I honestly won't be surprised if they are both a scum team. They both voted Robb fast and it looked like they wanted to end the day early.

Maybe...
Quick-voting isn't always scum indicative; it can often be newb!town indicative... but the whole situation does look a bit sketchy, aye.

[Spangled]

Hello, Sera Masumi. If you catch-up, please react by and large to the whole of this thread.
And not catching up is fairly scum indicative, so keep that in mind.

[Spangled]

That would be nice - and maybe by people's reactions to the reactions I hope our replacement will display we will find further reason to town/scum-read people.

[Spangled]

This is a Bad Take, OPs. If you have townreads on everybody except the paths of absolute least resistance, that indicates to me that you probably have too many townreads, not that scum happen to be the easiest targets in the game and just happily going along with that.

I will freely admit that I have too many basic townreads, but it's silly for you to assume I don't have cases that I'm building in my head, and that I'm waiting for people that I'm currently saying I'm townreading to slip up. This might be a bad position if I took it very far, but I am not taking it all that far.

Wagoning somebody who made a grand total of 1 post

cyrus was not wagoning anyone in 360; he was just thinking about it. To wagon someone is to truly push and get everyone involved; cyrus was not doing anything of the sort. He was suggesting a thought.
And, let's face it, connor's slot does have scum equity; that vote on Robb was hella suspicious.

and you don't give the role the ability to claim and therefore potentially ram a lynch on a power role through

I hope you're not soft-claiming PR here.

I'm also not very comfortable with the fact that cyrus floats this possibility out there and doesn't, you know, vote my or phone's slot.

So you don't like that he pushed a random thought out and then didn't act on it when you've previously said he was making a wagon (indicating action)...? You can't have it both ways.

Spangled-scum

I don't mean to sound condescending (although it make come off like that), but a cool thing we do on this forum is say scum!Spangled rather than Spangled-scum. To me it has a better ring to it (as it were).

1. Why you feel this way
2. Why would tell me this before I post, since it seems like a useful tell to have in your pocket

1. Not catching up indicates a lack of a willingness to engage - the action and attitude, I believe, of scum. 'Nuff said. (If you disagree, feel free to give me reasons).
2. Because on the whole I want you to engage with the thread; I'd rather be able to push a lynch of you based on sketchy things you said in a catch-up than just SR you on a lack of helpful contributions. (Or, of course, townread you based on your catchup). I'm also acknowledging you as a thinking person, potentially of the town; you too can provide helpful contributions.

[Spangled]

but I strongly disagree cyrus could be scum.

Echoing this thought right here.

[Spangled]

This is a Bad Take, OPs. If you have townreads on everybody except the paths of absolute least resistance, that indicates to me that you probably have too many townreads, not that scum happen to be the easiest targets in the game and just happily going along with that.

I will freely admit that I have too many basic townreads, but it's silly for you to assume I don't have cases that I'm building in my head, and that I'm waiting for people that I'm currently saying I'm townreading to slip up. This might be a bad position if I took it very far, but I am not taking it all that far.

And it was a little bit wishful thinking.

[Spangled]

The interaction with me and Robb is said to be TvT because it went to a point where we were pretty much hard bussing each other.

Aye I don't think you too were SvSing, certainly.

[Spangled]

Robb, can you give us your perspectives on... everything, basically.
You too, RF.

[Spangled]

Like, I'm really skeptical of two decently-experienced townies

Please keep in mind, I'm not decently experienced as a member of the town. This is my first town game (I'm playing another at the moment but this one I got started in before that; I'm not breaking site rules by implying anything).

[Spangled]

Scum can pretend to do those things though? Phone gave reads. I gave reads. Everyone in the game has given reads at one point or another. What about Spangled's hunting feels genuine to you?

Pretty sure you're not scumclaiming or outing your partner here, but the wording is ambiguous.

[Spangled]

Personally I think Sera maybe town, but I'm not counting the opposite possibility out yet.
They are staying in the null pile.

Pedit:
cyrus that post has somehow messed up in formatting.

[Spangled]

@Sera
I'd take a TL lynch as a compromise, but not a cyrus one. No way. To me he is towning it all the way up this game, and displays good reasoning and town-thinking in so many places.

[Spangled]

Looking back, I like posts like 157 and 136 and 137 and 127 a fair bit.
I do feel a little less confident in my cyrus read, having reread his ISO, but he's till fairly town for me.

[Spangled]

I like your analysis of Robb; it echoes my thoughts by and large. You also considered something else no one had considered; the genuineness of his posts and tone.
I don't like that I'm mentioned only once (as making a decent case on Temporal), but still pushed up to a TR. Why else do you think I'm town?
You make an excellent case for scum!Temporal; I'm going to sheep you on this. I've been putting off reading his ISO for a while. I think I was subconsciously clinging to wanting to be the mediator between him and Robb... but I think I'm done with that now.
VOTE: TemporalLich

You do suggest me, Adorable, Cyrus or Cyan as potential candidates for being Temporal's scumpartner because we publicly supported him. I'm inclined to think that scumpartners tend not to do that so as to not draw attention to themselves.

@Temporal, as this I believe is L-1, could you towncase yourself for us please, and then perhaps claim?

[Spangled]

Just saw I got to L-1 and then instead of being put in the tent I'm taken off L-1. I'm not claiming yet.

I mean, I unvoted solely to make sure no lolhammer shenanigans went on and gave you time to respond to the in-thread arguments or claim. Choosing to do neither isn't really the best look...

To be fair, anyone who lolhammers is dead, straight away (at least in the newbie queue). One scum for one town (if Temporal is town) is a great trade.

linking things is honestly quite a bit of effort

A cool trick I learnt only yesterday. To link a post, you do

Code: Select all

[post]Post#[/post]

and it will autolink.

I'm wholly convinced Sera wants to have me at L-1 and not have me at L-1 at the same time. That's not how mafia works.

I am not claiming until L-1 with intent to hammer.

Spoiler:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4MqPOzoS4Y[/youtube]

But to be fair, you

are

at L-1 now. Please claim or similar, and make an actual case for your defense.

So Temp is getting scum read for unvoting Robb and then voting him again? In past games I have seen town do this and I don't think scum are capable of this kind of play. I have already said I think Robb vs Temp is town vs town and the only player I could think of who could be Temp's scum buddy would be Cyrus if you guys think Temp really is scum.

About #483, why would Temp get hammered if he was to claim a pr? Pr are important and lynching a pr is actually what scum would do or who ever does hammer him could be seen as a counter claim if Temp claims the same pr as someone else.

I have a theory if Red is scum, Sera would be his scum buddy and I also find it interesting Red said Phone is town and it looked like to me Red would be scum if Phone does flip town since he was feeling confident Phone is town.

I still don't see anything towny on Phone's vote on Robb and I did not like the vote reason. Phone voted Robb for overreacting to an rvs which is a really bad reason to vote someone and it looked scummy.

Adorable, have you read the rest of Sera's scum!Temporal case? It does not just consist of 'unvoting then voting Robb again'; it consists of Temporal flip-flopping all the way through this game, and being super opportunistic at many a point, never really displaying good reasoning or thinking like town should. Please read the case in its' entirety; I feel that it makes lots of good points about Temporal and his ISO.

[Spangled]

Or maybe for youtube links work like

[Spangled]

So Temp is getting scum read for unvoting Robb and then voting him again? In past games I have seen town do this and I don't think scum are capable of this kind of play. I have already said I think Robb vs Temp is town vs town and the only player I could think of who could be Temp's scum buddy would be Cyrus if you guys think Temp really is scum.

About #483, why would Temp get hammered if he was to claim a pr? Pr are important and lynching a pr is actually what scum would do or who ever does hammer him could be seen as a counter claim if Temp claims the same pr as someone else.

I have a theory if Red is scum, Sera would be his scum buddy and I also find it interesting Red said Phone is town and it looked like to me Red would be scum if Phone does flip town since he was feeling confident Phone is town.

I still don't see anything towny on Phone's vote on Robb and I did not like the vote reason. Phone voted Robb for overreacting to an rvs which is a really bad reason to vote someone and it looked scummy.

any one can say i am pr and then be lieing in so i can see them being hammerd as day 1 you cant prove your pr either way

Yes, but it gives us a further reason to lynch them - or to not.
A claim is just more info, which always helps town.

[Spangled]

The fact there's no resistance on my wagon means I might be done for.

So claim.

[Spangled]

I'm wholly convinced Sera wants to have me at L-1 and not have me at L-1 at the same time. That's not how mafia works.

Which is why I outright voted you and put you at L-1. The math checks out.

Are you going to actually respond to my explanation for why your responses are flawed at best or...?

Also @cyrus- You didn't care about it being L-1 when Phoenix voted Robb back in early Day 1, you were happy to contemplate running my slot into the ground based off a post that you didn't even think was scummy because it was dragging out the day, why is Temp being at L-1 such a big deal for you?

Also I expect you to actually dig into these Red and Robb and Phone suspicions now.

if you think my defence in temp is a ai then by all means lynch them im willing to bet my life they are town but are you? are you so sure they flip scum to the point your be d2 lynch? the only way you would keep up is if theres a cc in which case your role fishing on d1 which isnt towny becuse if they out them self we our giveing up are pr before they can help. i say stop at the soft at soft and dont push . pushing for a pr so early dose not help town.

Someone being wrong on a lynch doesn't mean you should lynch them the next day, cyrus. That's just bad tactics.
And we should get Temporal to roleclaim. If he claims PR, and someone CCs, then we lynch one of them and either way we catch scum (because a VT should never fakeclaim. Doing that is gamethrowing).
One scum for one PR is actually not that bad. I don't know what the maths is on that, but I don't think it's bad.

[Spangled]

no i dont want a pr to out them selfs it gives scum a free shot

@cyrus

And we should get Temporal to roleclaim. If he claims PR, and someone CCs, then we lynch one of them and either way we catch scum (because a VT should never fakeclaim. Doing that is gamethrowing).
One scum for one PR is actually not that bad. I don't know what the maths is on that, but I don't think it's bad.

[Spangled]

I'm wholly convinced Sera wants to have me at L-1 and not have me at L-1 at the same time. That's not how mafia works.

Which is why I outright voted you and put you at L-1. The math checks out.

Are you going to actually respond to my explanation for why your responses are flawed at best or...?

Also @cyrus- You didn't care about it being L-1 when Phoenix voted Robb back in early Day 1, you were happy to contemplate running my slot into the ground based off a post that you didn't even think was scummy because it was dragging out the day, why is Temp being at L-1 such a big deal for you?

Also I expect you to actually dig into these Red and Robb and Phone suspicions now.

if you think my defence in temp is a ai then by all means lynch them im willing to bet my life they are town but are you? are you so sure they flip scum to the point your be d2 lynch? the only way you would keep up is if theres a cc in which case your role fishing on d1 which isnt towny becuse if they out them self we our giveing up are pr before they can help. i say stop at the soft at soft and dont push . pushing for a pr so early dose not help town.

any way im done untill a se wighs in you guys dont understand what your doing

We're trying to lynch scum...

[Spangled]

Someone being wrong on a lynch doesn't mean you should lynch them the next day, cyrus. That's just bad tactics.
And we should get Temporal to roleclaim. If he claims PR, and someone CCs, then we lynch one of them and either way we catch scum (because a VT should never fakeclaim. Doing that is gamethrowing).
One scum for one PR is actually not that bad. I don't know what the maths is on that, but I don't think it's bad.

I hope this isn't deliberate rolefishing...

I'm not rolefishing, Temporal, I'm convincing cyrus that a PR outing themselves and one scum doing the same isn't a bad trade.
In the worst case scenario, it is C1, and Temporal is a town PR and claims, and scum CC. We lynch Temporal, someone takes the NK, and then we lynch the scum the next day, and someone takes the next NK.
That leaves us at D3 with 1 scum and 4 town, and lots of associative reads. That isn't even MyLo.

[Spangled]

if me saying dont pr hunt is scummy then this town doesngt understand the way the game works .

Gonna have to agree, rolefishing is scummy.

look at the date they started playing they dont understand pushing for a pr is bad it could be town that doesnt know

For the last time, we're not PR-hunting, we're trying to lynch scum. Temporal if you don't want to claim I'm fine with that. But understand, you've are softing PR by doing this. Even if we don't lynch you, if scum have a brain you'll eat the NK.

[Spangled]

Now, scum might not CC, and we might lose a PR in Temporal by the NK. But I'm willing to turn away from Temporal if he claims, if only for this day, and turn my attention to others for the lynch. He'll eat the NK, yes, but if we lynch scum that day it's 6 town 1 scum D2. Worst case is we miss scum with the lynch and it ends up 5 town 2 scum D2, which is not even MyLo.

And we still get associatives and information.

[Spangled]

Someone being wrong on a lynch doesn't mean you should lynch them the next day, cyrus. That's just bad tactics.
And we should get Temporal to roleclaim. If he claims PR, and someone CCs, then we lynch one of them and either way we catch scum (because a VT should never fakeclaim. Doing that is gamethrowing).
One scum for one PR is actually not that bad. I don't know what the maths is on that, but I don't think it's bad.

I hope this isn't deliberate rolefishing...

I'm not rolefishing, Temporal, I'm convincing cyrus that a PR outing themselves and one scum doing the same isn't a bad trade.
In the worst case scenario, it is C1, and Temporal is a town PR and claims, and scum CC. We lynch Temporal, someone takes the NK, and then we lynch the scum the next day, and someone takes the next NK.
That leaves us at D3 with 1 scum and 4 town, and lots of associative reads. That isn't even MyLo.

do you see the rows if temp is cop we may just have 6 vt and then we lose are only pr

But we have so many leads at that point.

And he's already softing PR

; he'll eat the NK for sure.

[Spangled]

Unless he's scum.

[Spangled]

By this logic, anybody can softclaim a PR and we can never even push them to a claim, meaning that scum that fake hint at being PRs would win every time outside being investigated by an investigate PR that we might not necessarily even have, or can get killed in the night. Lynches have great return, but with that return comes an inherent degree of risk and that's something that one needs to always counterbalance.

Some call it rand (random), and I believe Temp is scum above the random chance.

[Spangled]

are you realy willing to get are only pr killed.

But he will be killed if he's a PR; he's softing it so hard (if that makes any sense).
Any way we do it at this point he will be killed, but if he hardclaims (and he's not scum) we might catch the real scum out of it at this point.

[Spangled]

What on Earth are you even talking about? There's two players out of 9 actively pushing against your lynch as hard as they can right now! In the last two pages!

There's no counterwagon.

Cyrus being against my wagon isn't going to derail the wagon.

But it is resistance. I hate to play a semantics game but you're dodging the truth of Sera's statement.

Pedit:
What do you propose then, cyrus?

[Spangled]

Alright might as well mediumclaim:

I know 300% Phone's "claim" is a fakeclaim

A cop claim. Alright.
If there are real PRs out there, could one claim?
And if anyone lolhammers you are trying to gamethrow.

[Spangled]

Or you're scum.

[Spangled]

This is my first town game, I will admit.
But if no CC is forthcoming for a while I'll say Temporal is Cop.

And remember that SEs are not allknowing, and they can be scum.

Pedit:
And Robb isn't here either.

[Spangled]

Okay.
So, Sera, everyone, for now let's assume Temporal is conf!town.
Who is scum?

[Spangled]

cyrus, I think you're town.
What I do want to know is - why did you think Temporal was a PR?

[Spangled]

So that explains why Temp was suspicious of Phone's post on page 2. I have seen alot of town flip flopping and they do this because they try to figure out who is scum and they sometimes get mislynched for flip flopping.

Aye, but Temporal's flip-flopping looked opportunistic to me.
But! That debate is over for now. We are assuming Temporal is conf!town for now.
Adorable, who do you think is scum?

Pedit:
Anyone tries to fight their own lynch hard.
Can you elaborate on that second point; what about their scumreads made you think about those being hints on who they were going to check?
Do you mean the flip-flopping?

[Spangled]

i now however scum red spangled and the new guy for pushing for a pr clime so easy.

Why?
Could you flesh your reads on us out a bit?

[Spangled]

@Sera
I do think this is just cyrus' mode of thinking, and doing this, and he might have been caught up in the idea that it was C1.
But it gives him better scum equity, for sure, and while I don't think I'll consider him as a lynch today, I'll think about it.

Pedit:
But, cyrus, you stated it as a certainty before. You're now admitting it could be different when someone else pointed it out.

[Spangled]

RedFlavor is still ignoring this game.

[Spangled]

i now however scum red spangled and the new guy for pushing for a pr clime so easy.

Why?
Could you flesh your reads on us out a bit?

you dint like that did you however i am willing to bet temp now feels the same so if your town all you did was make temp waste thire check and get them kill so yes your play is scum i will pull a red and say i dont need cases i will let the cards fall where they will,
town dose not pr hunt only scum do.

We were not hunting for PRs, we were looking for scum. I honestly believed that Temp was scum; I can't help that. Then when he was softing PR he was lost to the NK anyway.
We couldn't have done anything different.

[Spangled]

And cyrus to scumread someone based on one thing you think is vaguely scummy is not how to find scum.
It's hard for scum to look towny, and refusing to look over someone's ISO or case them doesn't help town, especially when said ISO could show them to be towny.

[Spangled]

And cyrus to scumread someone based on one thing you think is vaguely scummy is not how to find scum.
It's hard for scum to look towny, and refusing to look over someone's ISO or case them doesn't help town, especially when said ISO could show them to be towny.

you pushed after they soft you wouldnt back down you were told it was bad for town scum could have used it later or thougt they might not be tellung the truth you only hurt town and now we have a less cance of wining this game . i dont think anything you two did helped town in any way and i will let red cyan and rob wigh in on this.

I actually didn't realise it when Temporal started softing; only looking back (albeit two minutes later) did I see it. And I doesn't matter anyway; the moment he softed he was lost to the NK.

[Spangled]

spanled if i if anit hard on you on this they think im scum i know you didnt know better so i anit as pisst off at you as i am at her k you didnt push so hard .

Question: You think Temp is scum. What do you do in this scenario?

i wait tell theres more poe where i can build a better case and then i go for it there wasnt very much poe you went with they are flip floping what do you think town dose .

We didn't really have many other scumreads though. It would be nice if the PoE grew smaller, but especially as Red and Robb are staying far away from this game, we didn't really have many options other than the ones we took.

@Temporal, who do you think is scum?

[Spangled]

Spoiler:

spanled if i if anit hard on you on this they think im scum i know you didnt know better so i anit as pisst off at you as i am at her k you didnt push so hard .

Question: You think Temp is scum. What do you do in this scenario?

i wait tell theres more poe where i can build a better case and then i go for it there wasnt very much poe you went with they are flip floping what do you think town dose .

We didn't really have many other scumreads though. It would be nice if the PoE grew smaller, but especially as Red and Robb are staying far away from this game, we didn't really have many options other than the ones we took.

@Temporal, who do you think is scum?

you do realize all you did was help scum right not town temps most likely going to point at you two now so now town is fighting and this also doesnt help town.

cyrus, I want Temporal's opinions, especially since we're treating him as conf!town.
And what we did only helped scum, in the long run, true, but there's a flip side; we thought Temporal was scum, and wanted to lynch him.
And if he was scum and we lynched him, then that would have been good in the long run; better even than this was bad.

[Spangled]

OK, back again and here are my thoughts:

On one hand, I'm not really a fan of Spangled pushing for the claim, since any PR claim is grounds for scum to make a PR kill later at night.

But if he hadn't claimed, we would have lynched him. At least this way we have a chance to lynch scum.

[Spangled]

i now however scum red spangled and the new guy for pushing for a pr clime so easy.

They pushed for the claim because they had suspicions and wanted them confirmed. If a person behaving weirdly is trying to allude that they are PR or is unintentionally doing so, asking them to confirm it actually makes it a little more helpful, since scum are much better at catching such softs than town, and claiming allows the town to gain the advantage scum would have had regardless.

in that case I guess I did what I had to do.

You did. This definitely wasn't best case scenario, but we would have suspected you at some point - because your ISO was really not great, let's face it - and I think it is better you claim when us disbelieving you isn't game-losing (i.e. when scum aren't going to CC you).

Pedit:
Which wagon, cyrus?

[Spangled]

Alright might as well mediumclaim:

I know 300% Phone's "claim" is a fakeclaim

A cop claim. Alright.
If there are real PRs out there, could one claim?
And if anyone lolhammers you are trying to gamethrow.

and on this note, anyone voting TemporalLich should probably get off right about now

Fair that.
UNVOTE:

[Spangled]

I have to admit, this is a debacle we've all got the town into.
Let me just throw my thoughts out:
I thought Temporal was scum. Sera made by far the best case on anyone I've seen in this thread.
For these reasons and more, I really think Sera is town.
I think, also, for many reasons explained before, that Adorable and Robb are town.
How cyrus is increasingly not seeing reason and seems to be refusing to even read Sera's scum!Temporal case is anti-town behaviour, I think, but not super scummy.
I also don't see how cyrus scumreads me and Sera for pushing for a lynch. Anyone could be a PR; we can't let that stop us lynch scum. And you can't mentally talk yourself into not pushing for the lynch of people on the basis of 'they've looked a bit like a PR'. Because, especially in this case, if you're pushing for their lynch, they've looked like scum.
Which Temporal did to us.

[Spangled]

scum lurk and prod doge so they don't get seen as much as town and so ofc i thought connar and phone were scum and he also rvs voted him self and then replaced out he also fake cc a cop role yet you don't aim at phone but instead aims at temp then my self then cyan and then red your not helping town at all .

So you're saying phone and connor are scum... and that trying to get someone you think is scummy lynched doesn't help town...
cyrus, we couldn't see things from your perspective. Only you can. We thought that Temp looked like scum, and pushed for his lynch.

What is so scummy about that

?
I really don't get it; I've explained this over again and again (or I feel like I have).
Temporal could have been scum, and we felt like he was, so we pushed. It didn't help town in the long run, but

we weren't to know that

.
Gah. We did the best we could to do what we thought would help town.

[Spangled]

If by that you're referring to attacking me and Sera over what was ultimately a mistake, I don't believe you are, and I think I've shown why.

[Spangled]

I don't think you're scum, cyrus; I've said it before.
But I don't think Sera is either.

[Spangled]

The issue is that I really think that Adorable, Spangled, and Robb are town, we're not lynching a claimed cop with no CC, and I don't see much of a case against phone and want to wait for a replacement. So unless we're lynching Cyrus, that leaves Red and Cyan due to POE, even if I don't really have strong arguments against either. It's a compromise lynch for me.

So you suspect me as part of POE. Fair enough, but I still don't think we should ignore phone. There isn't much reason to lynch him right now, but we can't forget that the slot is staying here in this game.

Aye, and we have four days (or something) and the timer is still paused. I say wait for replacement before we try to lynch someone.

[Spangled]

You mentioned you see a lot of potential town thought process shining through Red and where was that?

I liked the way Red called out Temp's slight shift on Phone in #407, I like his general argument against Temp in #339, I like his lack of desire to push for a convenient connor lynch in #365. Overall I can agree with his thought process often when he shares it, and given that I'm town if somebody else is thinking like me I'm more inclined to think that they're town too.

But he's also way too lurky and my townread is very quickly wearing off, partially as a result of that and partially as a result of the fact that he just generally isn't as town as my towncore, and if we need a lynch I'm willing to go for him over somebody I really think is town.

Scum can also come up with cases for town too. Normally I see scum parroting other players also agreeing they think that person is scum. On #556 I listed players I think who could be scum.

Have you played scum, Adorable?
'Cause I'm telling you, it's not easy to look towny - scum necessarily see the game differently to town; they have different priorities and they have to invent their own reads more or less out of nothing (because they know who town is and who isn't), and they have to work to make their interaction with their partner seem legitimate.
It's hard playing scum, which is why we can sort people at all. If it were easy to fit in with the town, the game wouldn't be playable.

[Spangled]

Just realised that that was a bit of a rant that didn't really respond to your post at all.
But oh well.

[Spangled]

@mod: What is the current deadline?

Paused until we find a replacement (or hopefully, two).

Aye, but he's asking how long the timer has left in its' paused state.

[Spangled]

...So are you saying that you know how to play scum or not?

[Spangled]

Eh, I've seen games with more replacements than this before. We'll be right.

[Spangled]

Yes, there are things up on the newbie queue. Baezu is looking for replacements.

[Spangled]

I don't think they've gotten up to the part where you claim without a CC.
But aye, there's no real reason to vote someone until you read

everything

.

[Spangled]

seems legit

[Spangled]

But you could be helping scum.

[Spangled]

connorcompton
Cyan Talon
TemporalLich (SE)
Robbnva (SE)

I think scumteam is between these people and i think temporal is most likeliest mafia here, least likeliest probably alpha m

I like 100% agree with this list holy god

Red said he thinks the scum team could be either Connor/Sera, Cyan, Temp, Robb. I don't see Rob and Temp being a scum team because they have been scum reading each other, and I don't think Robb and Connor/Sera are a scum team because Connor was the 3rd person to vote Robb or did you think Connor voted Robb to get town cred if Red or you think Connor and Robb are actually a scum team?

People scumreading each other doesn't always mean they're not partners. See Bussing.

[Spangled]

Town

: cyrus62

Townlean

: Cyan Talon, Adorable, Robbnva

Meh

: Spangled

Scumlean

: RedFlavor

Scum

: Sera Masumi

this readslist is ass-backwards.

to be very clear, lich is not conftown in my mind. The absence of a counter claim does not mean a claim is valid (

especially

for a softclaim). i'm willing to trust this slot d1 to some extent, but I don't discard the possibility of scum here

Disagreeing with one read is one thing, flat-out contesting the whole read list is another. I'd like an explanation on every slot on here, please.

I’m excluding my slot from this list for obvious reasons
you’re fairly towny, so you’re just about the only read I agree with on there
spangled is a bit townier than null, but not by much
Sera is obvtown
haven’t got a read on red
haven’t got a read on adorable
Cyrus scum

As an addendum, you’re asking questions that are too pedantic and at times reachy, so you’ll inevitably get meme replies in normals (I’m particularly guilty of that). You get town points for asking good questions in a scumhunting sense, but sometimes you need some finesse - mafia is a game where a lot of things happen implicitly and go unsaid. Not game related, it’s just so you know

So you reckon I'm a bit townier than null, but also that

206 is the first obviously town post this game

How do those work together?

[Spangled]

Maybe make yourself V/LA for a bit if it gets serious.

[Spangled]

Alright sorry catching up now

do let us know in case you decide to catch up

That would be nice.

[Spangled]

Town

: cyrus62

Townlean

: Cyan Talon, Adorable, Robbnva

Meh

: Spangled

Scumlean

: RedFlavor

Scum

: Sera Masumi

this readslist is ass-backwards.

to be very clear, lich is not conftown in my mind. The absence of a counter claim does not mean a claim is valid (

especially

for a softclaim). i'm willing to trust this slot d1 to some extent, but I don't discard the possibility of scum here

Disagreeing with one read is one thing, flat-out contesting the whole read list is another. I'd like an explanation on every slot on here, please.

I’m excluding my slot from this list for obvious reasons
you’re fairly towny, so you’re just about the only read I agree with on there
spangled is a bit townier than null, but not by much
Sera is obvtown
haven’t got a read on red
haven’t got a read on adorable
Cyrus scum

As an addendum, you’re asking questions that are too pedantic and at times reachy, so you’ll inevitably get meme replies in normals (I’m particularly guilty of that). You get town points for asking good questions in a scumhunting sense, but sometimes you need some finesse - mafia is a game where a lot of things happen implicitly and go unsaid. Not game related, it’s just so you know

So you reckon I'm a bit townier than null, but also that

206 is the first obviously town post this game

How do those work together?

@osuka

[Spangled]

My compromise lynches are RedFlavor and Spangled, still voting Sera right now

why do you think sera is scum? I don't think spangled is a good lynch and I would be willing to compromise on redflavor, though I would rather not lynch this slot because of the lack of content. I just don't have a good read here

Aye, Red's not a good lynch because of the almost-complete lack of associatives or practically anything it will bring if they flip town.

[Spangled]

And I'm not really willing to bet that they flip scum.

[Spangled]

Thing is, I really don't think Sera is scum either.
She has displayed, to me, a lot of great reasoning and town-thinking.

[Spangled]

No... no other thoughts?
Why is Cyan scum, first?

Pedit:
Phew I thought you were leaving it there.

[Spangled]

Rob slot probably town

So spangled osuka Lich adorable town

That leaves redflavlor cyan cyrus right?

You're also missing Sera Masumi.

[Spangled]

No... no other thoughts?
Why is Cyan scum, first?

Pedit:
Phew I thought you were leaving it there.

I don’t make cases sry bud

Then do you expect us to lynch them, then?

[Spangled]

what's your feeling on WhemeStar then?

This catch-up is NAI.
They just don't have enough content to read.

[Spangled]

OMGUS ain't always good TL.

[Spangled]

TL I don't think Wheme's refusal to effort is scummy, but it is somewhat antitown.
But scum don't generally tend to not effort, I think; it would draw too much attention to do it outright and talk about it. So they do it without talking about it. Wheme is talking about it. Sure, that doesn't make him any smarter, but it does make him a little more towny.

[Spangled]

Idk spangled just read Cyans iso dude is so neutral on everything and hasn’t placed one vote all game

Just screams scum too me

alright I think I can agree with this case. Yeah, no vote is scummy AF.

VOTE: Cyan Talon

Sera is still a worthy lynch

I did like Cyan's genuineness when he was confronted about this earlier; see 269.

[Spangled]

TL I don't think Wheme's refusal to effort is scummy, but it is somewhat antitown.
But scum don't generally tend to not effort, I think; it would draw too much attention to do it outright and talk about it. So they do it without talking about it. Wheme is talking about it. Sure, that doesn't make him any smarter, but it does make him a little more towny.

I think I can agree, yeah trying to openwolf now would be suicide

Aye, I think it would.
I do have a question though - how do scum normally go about openwolfing? How do they survive that; do they ever?
And why would scum do that?

[Spangled]

Town

: cyrus62

Townlean

: Cyan Talon, Adorable, Robbnva

Meh

: Spangled

Scumlean

: RedFlavor

Scum

: Sera Masumi

this readslist is ass-backwards.

to be very clear, lich is not conftown in my mind. The absence of a counter claim does not mean a claim is valid (

especially

for a softclaim). i'm willing to trust this slot d1 to some extent, but I don't discard the possibility of scum here

Disagreeing with one read is one thing, flat-out contesting the whole read list is another. I'd like an explanation on every slot on here, please.

I’m excluding my slot from this list for obvious reasons
you’re fairly towny, so you’re just about the only read I agree with on there
spangled is a bit townier than null, but not by much
Sera is obvtown
haven’t got a read on red
haven’t got a read on adorable
Cyrus scum

As an addendum, you’re asking questions that are too pedantic and at times reachy, so you’ll inevitably get meme replies in normals (I’m particularly guilty of that). You get town points for asking good questions in a scumhunting sense, but sometimes you need some finesse - mafia is a game where a lot of things happen implicitly and go unsaid. Not game related, it’s just so you know

So you reckon I'm a bit townier than null, but also that

206 is the first obviously town post this game

How do those work together?

@osuka

how do they not? having a towny post does not a townie make

I guess 'obviously town' isn't

quite

obvtown. I took it as that; thank you for correcting me.

[Spangled]

@mod
could we have the deadline paused until a replacement for RedFlavor is found?

[Spangled]

Cases are boring and scummy

no they aren't, they give town a reason to follow your reads, and can be useful to catch scum

Cases are boring and scummy

no they aren't, they give town a reason to follow your reads, and can be useful to catch scum

Be my blind sheep

Idk spangled just read Cyans iso dude is so neutral on everything and hasn’t placed one vote all game

Just screams scum too me

alright I think I can agree with this case. Yeah, no vote is scummy AF.

VOTE: Cyan Talon

Sera is still a worthy lynch

lol what the fuck
are you actively trying to look scummy, lich? this is quickly reaching levels beyond human comprehension

you've dug a hold so deep that i'm actually really considering voteparking you

What about 805 is scummy?

[Spangled]

We're really getting into these quote pyramids. Never seen that happen before.

[Spangled]

Bah.
How many replacements can this game get?

[Spangled]

why would I be openwolfing?

that's my question to you

I wouldn't openwolf on D1, I'd surely be lynched

and wasn't that exactly what was about to happen before you claimed pr?

Aye, but no CC has appeared.

[Spangled]

Bah.
How many replacements can this game get?

I’d rather have replacements than shitty activity

Aye, but I don't want to have to read a whole new PL rather than the old one. Half of the PL is bad enough, to get a double rep-out is just super annoying.

[Spangled]

why would I be openwolfing?

that's my question to you

I wouldn't openwolf on D1, I'd surely be lynched

and wasn't that exactly what was about to happen before you claimed pr?

Aye, but no CC has appeared.

that doesn’t mean one won’t appear, and it more importantly doesn’t mean the claim is undoubtedly true

But it does mean we shouldn't lynch him until a CC does show up.

[Spangled]

Cases are boring and scummy

no they aren't, they give town a reason to follow your reads, and can be useful to catch scum

Cases are boring and scummy

no they aren't, they give town a reason to follow your reads, and can be useful to catch scum

Be my blind sheep

Idk spangled just read Cyans iso dude is so neutral on everything and hasn’t placed one vote all game

Just screams scum too me

alright I think I can agree with this case. Yeah, no vote is scummy AF.

VOTE: Cyan Talon

Sera is still a worthy lynch

lol what the fuck
are you actively trying to look scummy, lich? this is quickly reaching levels beyond human comprehension

you've dug a hold so deep that i'm actually really considering voteparking you

What about 805 is scummy?

Nothing in 805 - I quoted it to show the apparent complete lack of a reasonable thought process

807 is where it really zaps my brain. He’s backpedaling hard from his previous stance of strongly disagreeing with RF. All it took was “be my blind sheep” and he turns a complete 180, from “you don’t have a case and therefore you’re scummy” to “you have an ok case, I’m willing to go with it”

disgusting, really.

He could have gone back and reread.

[Spangled]

I don’t know.
Maybe.
We’re definitely not lynching him without a CC though.

[Spangled]

I am not good with a Sera lynch. Her thoughts fitted with, and added to, mine in so many places I felt like we mindmelded and I couldn't see any of that perspective coming from scum.

[Spangled]

Seriously, osuka?
Sera did not blindly compliment me on my play or similar - she made good, towny points about the game that often happened to fit with mine, and displayed good reasoning in places I had not even considered.
I don't think I was pocketed, personally.

[Spangled]

I don't think I was pocketed, personally.

that's exactly what someone who was pocketed would say

So you don't think a single action she made or thing she displayed came off as towny?

And do you think someone pockets someone only to completely siteflake with no explanation later?

[Spangled]

What are the pros and cons of no lynch D1?

[Spangled]

And especially with a claimed PR, there is no reason to let scum have the killing and the night all to themselves.
Alright.
I don't really like a Cyan lynch, but I like it better than many lynches the town seems to be going for right now, and we have 12 hours left.
This is an okay compromise lynch. Not great, and we might lose a valuable player for lategame, but we kind of need to lynch someone, so I will
VOTE: Cyan Talon

[Spangled]

why would a towny want a no lynch?

I was just thinking about it.
A no lynch can be of use in Role Madness game or ToS, but not here.

[Spangled]

i wii make this know here and now im not okay with a cyan lynch so i will not vote them

Would you take a Cyan lynch over a no lynch though?

[Spangled]

I don't think I was pocketed, personally.

that's exactly what someone who was pocketed would say

So you don't think a single action she made or thing she displayed came off as towny?

this is a misrep of monumental proportions

Sorry, the so was not really meant to be there. I was trying to concede the point to you (that I could have been pocketed) and ask another question.

[Spangled]

Who would you prefer lynched, osuka?
'Cause we need a lynch.

[Spangled]

Oh, whoops. Other than me, maybe?

[Spangled]

now that you gave your reasons let cyan defend it .

We only have 12 hours though.

[Spangled]

I don't think I was pocketed, personally.

that's exactly what someone who was pocketed would say

So you don't think a single action she made or thing she displayed came off as towny?

this is a misrep of monumental proportions

Maybe so, but I do think you're stepping around and trying to avoid her towniness.

[Spangled]

And especially with a claimed PR, there is no reason to let scum have the killing and the night all to themselves.
Alright.
I don't really like a Cyan lynch, but I like it better than many lynches the town seems to be going for right now, and we have 12 hours left.
This is an okay compromise lynch. Not great, and we might lose a valuable player for lategame, but we kind of need to lynch someone, so I will
VOTE: Cyan Talon

this reeks of scum

as of this post, i am 100% okay with lynching spangled

Could you tell me which parts of that post you found scummy? I can see how certain parts of it could be seen as scummy, but I'd like you to tell me what

you

found scummy.

[Spangled]

but I have a feeling Cyan could be pocketing Sera

Cyan is probably about to die and Sera has repped out. I see no pocketing there.

[Spangled]

Spangled: While I must admit I like this slot by virtue of gut feeling, he rubs off as fairly neutral to me. Nothing obvtown, and nothing obvscum, so I'm leaning on him being town (albeit slightly less that I do in Cyrus). On the other hand, he seems to want to jump on my wagon while saying outright that he doesn't want to, which is odd.

I don't want anyone lynched more than you, and we need a lynch (or so I'm lead to believe).
All the rep-outs have made the game really hard to read, and I'm having trouble finding scum.

[Spangled]

And, after a few hours, I won't be able to check this site again until about 4:00 tomorrow (my time; about 9 hours from now), so I kind of need a wagon and a case to form now-ish if we're not going to lynch Cyan.

[Spangled]

I am still willing to vote Cyan, but he's now just a compromise lynch.

I don't recall Sera repping out.

Either way, Cyan and Sera are unlikely to be SvT

She hasn't posted in five days (or something); if that isn't grounds for replacement I don't know what is.

[Spangled]

mod can we get a vote count

At this point I’m pretty sure 3 people (myself, TL, adorable) are voting Cyan.

[Spangled]

Everyone, TL’s lack of death might be scum trying to make us WIFOM.
Or it might not.
TL, what did you do that night?

[Spangled]

Also, osuka, I would have killed you in that situation every time, as you are the only one scumreading me so far.

@mod Sera also needs replacing

Where did she request replacement? I must have missed that

[Spangled]

your votes manage to get 2 prs to out them selfs on day 1 and now ones dead

Where did Cyan out himself?
What do you mean?

[Spangled]

i was also scumm reading you spanglead

Oh, true that. I had forgotten.
I guess I would have shot one of the two of you, but more likely osuka.

[Spangled]

A no-read is not mech!scum.
If scum have an RB and you’re actually a cop, of course you’re getting targeted. You’ve bloody well claimed.
A no-read is literally a no-read; it is what it says, especially in this scenario.

[Spangled]

I think osuka might be scum with Spangled

What interactions make you think this, pray tell?

[Spangled]

Yeah at this point the white X might as well be a red check

sounds like he might have blocked you since he knew who the two prs were by voteing you and cyan

What the heck is this bad logic?
If scum have an RB they bloody use it on the claimed PRs.

I can accept this from cyrus, but TL, seriously?
Read the bloody setup.

[Spangled]

I do think you’re probably cop; I’ve said it a fair few times by now, I think.
But being suss of a suss player isn’t scummy, and TL you’ve been suss in half your posts. To be fair I don’t know if I’ve been much better; that’s a discussion for post-game, really, but I can see how people could have seen you as fairly scummy.

I still think you’re probably cop, though. Especially without a CC.

[Spangled]

and considering I was roleblocked instead of shot... well... scum are more likely to be in the people who don't think my claim is true.

But there were two PR claims to shoot. Which they chose doesn’t really matter. But maybe they shot Cyan instead of you because you’re introducing discord into the town; they’re fine with you being ineffectual in the night and helping them during the day. That would make sense.

[Spangled]

I will consider you conf!town for the purpose of today’s lynch.
For the purpose of today’s lynch.

[Spangled]

Unfortunately I have no idea what you mean by that, and a doubtless clever joke is utterly wasted to me.
But VTs don’t often soft PR, so I can see why scum would consider it an actual claim.

[Spangled]

and considering I was roleblocked instead of shot... well... scum are more likely to be in the people who don't think my claim is true.

But there were two PR claims to shoot. Which they chose doesn’t really matter. But maybe they shot Cyan instead of you because you’re introducing discord into the town; they’re fine with you being ineffectual in the night and helping them during the day. That would make sense.

@TL

[Spangled]

cyrus, you can’t self-meta.
If you’re aware of your meta, you could be using it to your advantage.
It doesn’t work.

[Spangled]

That is pretty much what osuka is proposing, cyrus.

[Spangled]

self-meta doesn't work but cyrus is still town

Oh, I agree, but you just can’t self-meta; it doesn’t work.

[Spangled]

No. I was agreeing with you that cyrus is town regardless of his self-meta.

[Spangled]

eth0s I feel a wee bit pocketed; I don't know if I featured as much in the game as you're making out.
I don't know what I'm feeling here; I'm probably just paranoid.

[Spangled]

See, eth0s, I felt pocketed because all throughout your catch-up you were pointing at me as town, even semi-complimenting me at some points...
Now I'm just weirded out; I don't really see where your read evolution on me is straight from town to scum.
You've been accusing cyrus of flip-flopping (and although I do see the case on him), you seem to be guilty of the same.
Mind showing everyone - and me - where my 'questionable posts' have been?

[Spangled]

A no-read is not mech!scum.

what do you mean by this?

IIRC, early on in the day, TL claimed a no-read on me, and said that that made me cleared as scum by mechanics, or something to that effect.
I was showing how utterly stupid that viewpoint was.

[Spangled]

Also, osuka, I would have killed you in that situation every time, as you are the only one scumreading me so far.

This is WIFOM

It was a bit of a dumb post to make but it was the truth as regards what I would have done with the NK if I'd been scum. (Remember at that point I had forgotten that Cyan had softed PR; I keep on losing the narrative of the game because of all the rep-outs and stagnation.)

[Spangled]

I do have to agree on eth0s post on #1131 and it's like half of the players have different scum reads and we can't even come to an agreement on who to lynch. Whoever are scum, I start to wonder if they are posting for the sake of posting and plan on having another no lynch.

Since the clock has been ticking ever since Sera left like 10 days ago, and now we even have Cyrus going on vacation until after the deadlin, pretty sure it is gg lol

The clock's been stopped until we get a replacement for Sera though.

[Spangled]

Wheme your ISO has been devoid of stance-taking or, pretty much, anything.
Could you give us a readslist, please?

[Spangled]

A no-read is not mech!scum.

what do you mean by this?

IIRC, early on in the day, TL claimed a no-read on me, and said that that made me cleared as scum by mechanics, or something to that effect.
I was showing how utterly stupid that viewpoint was.

See 1001 to sum up TL's viewpoint and read a few posts forward and backward from there.

[Spangled]

See, eth0s, I felt pocketed because all throughout your catch-up you were pointing at me as town, even semi-complimenting me at some points...
Now I'm just weirded out; I don't really see where your read evolution on me is straight from town to scum.
You've been accusing cyrus of flip-flopping (and although I do see the case on him), you seem to be guilty of the same.
Mind showing everyone - and me - where my 'questionable posts' have been?

@eth0s

[Spangled]

Case osuka for us please cyrus. Why are you SRing them?

[Spangled]

I disagree wholeheartedly as to Robb, but you do need to look at people's replacements in case your initial reads are wrong.
Hm. I'll look back at osuka.

[Spangled]

I disagree wholeheartedly as to Robb, but you do need to look at people's replacements in case your initial reads are wrong.
Hm. I'll look back at osuka.

This post was at cyrus.

[Spangled]

See, eth0s, I felt pocketed because all throughout your catch-up you were pointing at me as town, even semi-complimenting me at some points...
Now I'm just weirded out; I don't really see where your read evolution on me is straight from town to scum.
You've been accusing cyrus of flip-flopping (and although I do see the case on him), you seem to be guilty of the same.
Mind showing everyone - and me - where my 'questionable posts' have been?

@eth0s

To put it bluntly, you scare me. I can't even say that I scumread you. Half of the time I feel scumlean, half of the time I feel townlean. While I felt that your actions on day one were mostly indicative of a townie taking charge and scumhunting, I began to psych myself out on the possibility of you just being a smart scum player. The aftermath of your pushes on day one were fruitful, but outed potentially 2 prs. And I need more time to determine fully if I think you did that on purpose.

I am hesitant to say that you did, because TemporalLich was being so flaky that he really brought it upon himself. And Cyan was kinda the same, but in a different manner. Temporal was reckless and couldn't stick to a wagon, Cyan was too quiet and passive the majority of the time. I don't think you expected to get a PR claim from Temporal, but I think you might've on Cyan. And honestly I originally thought maybe Sera is who I should be worried about rather than you, but ultimately her lack of activity, and your constant guiding town discussion made me stick with you as my choice. I just don't see scum!sera coming in, putting in all that effort, and bouncing.

So really it's not that I want you lynched because I suspect you're scum, although part of me thinks maybe you are, but that I want you gone because I'm not sure I will ever be able to shake my suspicions on you. Note that you are 4th in priority for me, and if Cyrus or Temporal flipped scum, I don't think I would worry about you anymore.

Also I don't think that our reads align very well anymore, which makes me believe that going to MyLo or LyLo with you would just make this harder. But I think your reads would likely change with a scumflip, as mine would. You also have a lot of interaction with everyone that I would be

very

interested in revisiting after your flip. So that's the gist of it. I would still much rather see Cyrus go, as I would say there's about a 75% chance he is scum. And I still want to hear more from Osuka, but Robb's play really struck me the wrong way after reading his ISO again. I know the town won't lynch Temporal today, although I am still not convinced that it is a bad move. I just can't let go of how scummy he was in day one, and the fact that even if he is a cop, he is essentially a VT against a roleblocker, and dead immediately if the roleblocker gets lynched.

I'll say this now, and it might come off as AtE. I'll try my hardest to keep that out of here.
But I personally believe (now that this game has progressed) I'm not very good at town; you say that I've led discussion but so far I haven't actually led it anywhere in particular. I'm terrible at making reads and following up on them.
And in going for TL's claim I think I was subconsciously trying to follow "the rules" as a first-time-townie.

Alright, semi-AtE over.
eth0s, you feel really town to me after that post; I have felt that feeling ('To put it bluntly, you scare me') on others some times.

[Spangled]

I disagree wholeheartedly as to Robb, but you do need to look at people's replacements in case your initial reads are wrong.
Hm. I'll look back at osuka.

This post was at cyrus.

that's the point of lamist is to fool every one in to thinking they are town i get scum bumps where i can as to not see me coming off as to townish but rather you agree with my read or not my vote wont change .

Are you threatening me with your vote, or am I reading that wrong?