Newbie 1943: Crosswords (Game Over)

[Cyan Talon]

Hello! I'm your resident SE!

What's your experience with Mafia?

Might as well reintroduce myself to this (mostly) new PL:

I'm a relatively new player in Forum Mafia coming from the Pokemon Showdown Mafia chatroom and its forums extension. I've played in the chatroom for several months, and have played a total of 3 Mafia games on forums (one D6 and an Open Setup on PS as well as a Newbie Game on MafiaScum). I don't have much in terms of actual skill or experience, but I do like to play to the best of my abilities and I often take games seriously.

I expect a game that's fun from everyone on here, even if the only person I've met so far is Cyrus.

[Cyan Talon]

VOTE: Cyan Talon tell me if i do better this time

Depends on you, buddy.

[Cyan Talon]

from what i see so far on only see town

FYI this counts as a read

[Cyan Talon]

VOTE: Phone0Ix

back, and why is the cop claim self-voting

[Cyan Talon]

VOTE: Phone0Ix

back, and why is the cop claim self-voting

he said it was a rvs vote trying to get a laugh.

W-wat

No idiot would self-vote for RVS and claim to be the cop at the same time. Ph0enix, please do something a little more useful.

[Cyan Talon]

You know that's one of your town games, right?

[Cyan Talon]

Too many players have been focusing on Robbnva and the only players who haven't been focusing on him are Spangled, Cyan, Cyrus, and me. A player who is getting focused by multiple players I tend to think that player could be town. If you guys think Robbnva is scum, then that would mean either Spangled or Cyan would be his scum buddy. The interaction between Robbnva and Cyrus doesn't look like a scum pair. I think Robbnva could be town since so many players have been focusing on him.

@cyan and spangled your thoughts on this post please?

I actually haven't been paying attention to Robbnva, now that I think about it. Sorry about that.

Anyway, I find this slot moldy suspicious. For one, he's definitely on tunnel vision mode. I really don't see why a bad play history and an RVS vote are solid reasons for a lynch, and the way he tries to force someone to 'slip' makes no sense.

Keep the wording in this post in mind;

lol just give up and claim scum already

You're just trying to get me to prematurely claim.

It makes no sense for me to claim when it is D1 and

nobody has voted me yet.

Never in this post did he allude to the notion that he would be claiming scum. This isn't a definitive scumslip, and Robbnva should know that by now.

[Cyan Talon]

why don't you ever defend yourself? I have made many accusations towards you and you just ignore them.

Like if I somehow ignore the fact that you didn't just admit you are scum, how do you explain the 180 on me? Walk me through that thought process. I didn't add anything new overnight so you go to bed thinking I am scum. You wake up and now you aren't so sure and you vote somebody else. The moment I mention that is suspicious behaviour, you vote me again.

explain how all that works in the mind of a "townie"

Even so, this is still a solid argument. The flip-flopping he's pointed out doesn't seem likely to be town behavior, and I can see TL's focus on survival from this point.

[Cyan Talon]

Never in this post did he allude to the notion that he would be claiming scum. This isn't a definitive scumslip, and Robbnva should know that by now.

uh, read what i asked him to do and read his response.

You don't know me, you don't know what I should and shouldn't know.


I asked him to claim scum, he said he isn't going to claim without votes on him. He never denies he is scum.

No one has the need to outright deny that they are scum when asked directly to claim that they are scum. What he's saying is that you have the intention of trying to force claim,

any claim

, out of him.

If you think this is a good reason to lynch him, you're a little out of it.

[Cyan Talon]

Everyone is scum reading Robb except for two players. I was hoping to hear from Connor but he never came back and this slot will probably get mod killed or subbed out.

Cyan looks like he is just following other players scum reading Robb which looks sus and normally scum follow other players.


VOTE: Cyan Talon

Fixed

Not entirely true; if you look at the chain of two posts I made earlier, you cn see that I noted that even though his tunnel-like behavior is suspicious, he has a fair point against TemporalLich.

[Cyan Talon]

gonna shift my vote because I'm thinking TL/Robb is TvT and because of 243 maybe.

VOTE: Cyan Talon

Reading his ISO, 177's read on cyrus doesn't feel genuine and the rest feels lukewarm. Mulling between this and RedFlavor (entire ISO is lukewarm at best) tbh.

Not sure what you mean by 'lukewarm' so I'm making assumptions here:

If you think my behavior has been passive so far, I can't really argue with that. I'm not all that great at forming deductions or making reads when compared to other players with similar levels of experience. So far, it's only D1, and I generally do most of my thinking on later phases where I have more information to work with. That, plus ongoing medical issues, is hindering my play ability as of now.

I'm aware this post probably reeks of AtE, but this is the best explanation I can offer.

[Cyan Talon]

Cyan, Adorable, cyrus, FL, connor, can you give us your perspective on this Robb vs. Temporal battle?

Really not sure what to think here. As others have pointed out, Robbnva seems too aggressive to be scum at this point, and I can respect TemporalLich for admitting to the fact and not directly fighting back (which is frankly only mildly townie). However, the way Rob's pushing the 'slip' still irks me.

Maybe I'd call this a nullread, but I'm leaning on a TvT interaction here.

[Cyan Talon]

Sorry for late entrance. This game started when I was asleep. I'm new to the forum and I have played mafia on 2 other forums.

Your avatar triggers my PTSD

consider taking a Chesto Berry with you next time

[Cyan Talon]

connor might be scum they havent said nothing this whole time just one post

Activity check tells me he hasn't posted in over 36 hours.

@Baezu I think a prod might be in order here.

connorcompton has requested replacement

[Cyan Talon]

this game is going stale and I can't even form reads from the last few one-line posts anymore

reminds me of my roots of Chatroom Mafia

[Cyan Talon]

Pro tip: do not PM to players in the game even if you think someone is cheating, PM the mods.

Weird protip. Has that ever happened?

You'd be surprised how many times I've witnessed it happen in all of the places I've played Mafia in. The only place where you can legally PM someone mid-game is in ToS (the game, not the forums).

[Cyan Talon]

Also, everyone, Baezu said on a game of theirs they'd be V/LA through Sunday, so...
How much time do we have left?

About 2 days before he comes back, then another 5 days before deadline hits.

I'm going to facepalm if I find out that this game was abandoned in its entirety.

[Cyan Talon]

Hopefully. I think by this point most of us have given up trying to keep it running with the host gone.

[Cyan Talon]

reds a friend but i like temp play so far i may vote red have to see what connors replacement brings to the table or maybe we should all vote connor so we dont have to wait for a replacement and then look closer at day 2 depending on what the night beings .

If we're talking about replacements, we probably need one for the host.

I'd rather not go for a Connor lynch today, since we're very short on info and we need to have some discussion. I'd love to hear from him, but part experience tells me that there will always be some people who join a game and never play just because they suddenly don't feel like it.

[Cyan Talon]

So we should probably find something to spark discussion with.

Starting with, I'd like to actually express some doubts about Cyrus here. While I appreciate that he's towning up, the town game he previously mentioned shows him being all over the place with his words and actions. Oddly, I find him more organized in this game than in that one, and it's pinging a few alarms.

I'm not keen on voting him for just this, since it could also be a result of him improving and not being fed information by a partner, but I really don't know how someone suddenly goes from newbie spewer to town leader level in the interval of, like, 1 game.

This is probably the weakest of things to suspect someone from, but let's talk about Cyrus if it helps.

[Cyan Talon]

Phone0Ix has requested replacement

And Connor Compton?

[Cyan Talon]

i got hung in my 1st game becuse the tracker didnt know that cyrus went no where ment he was town

Yeah, uh...

We lynched you because you were acting so oddly that our tracker decided you were scum in spite of the lack of night targets you had.

[Cyan Talon]

Replacement arrives and I don't think I'll ever find the chance to truly read through Sera's slogs of posts. There are a lot of words there, and the words show me she's putting in a lot of effort. I'm feeling she's town here; if scum wanted to fake a towny entry I don't think they would consider building up a case on a player so quickly.

In regards to your case, your arguments on Temporal seem really convincing, and it does make me doubt the TvT thing I mentioned earlier somewhat (although to say I'm sure here would be wrong). I'd like to hear Temporal give counterpoint or whatnot before deciding if the lynch should go through.

I somewhat disagree with your read on Cyrus, mainly because he tends to play about as messily as he is doing here and his behavior doesn't really align with traditional Mafia meta (please look at the town game he posted for an idea of how he works).

To end my post, hey guys I'm back. School's already started but if that's an obstacle for me I never would have signed up for MafiaScum in the first place.

[Cyan Talon]

You do suggest me, Adorable, Cyrus or Cyan as potential candidates for being Temporal's scumpartner because we publicly supported him. I'm inclined to think that scumpartners tend not to do that so as to not draw attention to themselves.

In a case where someone's being blatantly scummy, that might be the case, but it doesn't take much effort to say an interaction looks like two bickering town if it isn't, and scum can probably do that without really gathering too much attention. Scumpartners are generally focused on two things: gaining towncred and surviving to the end, so if they can move closer to the second goal without straying from the first then they probably will. The suggestion makes perfect sense.

[Cyan Talon]

OK, back again and here are my thoughts:

On one hand, I'm not really a fan of Spangled pushing for the claim, since any PR claim is grounds for scum to make a PR kill later at night. But it's even less beneficial for town if we lynch the PR in question, so this puts Cyrus's argument in the spotlight as being fairly flawed. At the moment, I think that Spangled pushing for the claim sounds like paranoid town, but it's another of those things which is indicative of both alignments.

I still think Sera's case makes some sense, but with the claim coming from Temporal I'm going to have to call it probably a wasted effort unless it turns out he's faking the claim as scum. I just wish her posts could be a little on the shorter and more concise side of things, but having a lot to say isn't any hurtful for town.

[Cyan Talon]

Alright might as well mediumclaim:

I know 300% Phone's "claim" is a fakeclaim

A cop claim. Alright.
If there are real PRs out there, could one claim?
And if anyone lolhammers you are trying to gamethrow.

and on this note, anyone voting TemporalLich should probably get off right about now

[Cyan Talon]

i now however scum red spangled and the new guy for pushing for a pr clime so easy.

They pushed for the claim because they had suspicions and wanted them confirmed. If a person behaving weirdly is trying to allude that they are PR or is unintentionally doing so, asking them to confirm it actually makes it a little more helpful, since scum are much better at catching such softs than town, and claiming allows the town to gain the advantage scum would have had regardless.

[Cyan Talon]

They pushed for the claim because they had suspicions and wanted them confirmed. If a person behaving weirdly is trying to allude that they are PR or is unintentionally doing so, asking them to confirm it actually makes it a little more helpful, since scum are much better at catching such softs than town, and claiming allows the town to[/quote then lets hope theres a doc right other wise all this did was get a pr killed

Have you been paying attention to what I said? If Temporal had already softed PR, he'd be dead no matter what. By claiming he lets the town know as well, so scum don't have any greater advantage.

Temporal is most likely going to die tonight. Claiming wouldn't have changed that.

[Cyan Talon]

OK, back again and here are my thoughts:

On one hand, I'm not really a fan of Spangled pushing for the claim, since any PR claim is grounds for scum to make a PR kill later at night. But it's even less beneficial for town if we lynch the PR in question, so this puts Cyrus's argument in the spotlight as being fairly flawed. At the moment, I think that Spangled pushing for the claim sounds like paranoid town, but it's another of those things which is indicative of both alignments.

I still think Sera's case makes some sense, but with the claim coming from Temporal I'm going to have to call it probably a wasted effort unless it turns out he's faking the claim as scum. I just wish her posts could be a little on the shorter and more concise side of things, but having a lot to say isn't any hurtful for town.

so im bad for getting pisst you realize there is only a 25 chance of a doc and cop so we could end up with no pr

Would you rather we lynch the PR?

[Cyan Talon]

scum lurk and prod doge so they don't get seen as much as town and so ofc i thought connar and phone were scum and he also rvs voted him self and then replaced out he also fake cc a cop role yet you don't aim at phone but instead aims at temp then my self then cyan and then red your not helping town at all .

You're forgetting two things:
1. Sera replaces Connor in this game.
2. The fake claim was most likely a joking attempt, and we discussed and dismissed it earlier right when it happened.

[Cyan Talon]

If by that you're referring to attacking me and Sera over what was ultimately a mistake, I don't believe you are, and I think I've shown why.

let me ask you this why would scum care if you outed a pr. i am calming down now i was pisst off i don't like to lose. i can only sort so much on so little post in 9 days.

This is interesting for me. While I still disagree that forcing Temporal to claim was any more hurtful for town than making him stay shut, the fact that Cyrus showed frustration made me lean him as town for a short moment. Suddenly, he uses that as a point for his defense, and I'm feeling the lean wear off since scum are more likely to do actions that they are aware would be easy to justify, defend or gain towncred for.

[Cyan Talon]

The issue is that I really think that Adorable, Spangled, and Robb are town, we're not lynching a claimed cop with no CC, and I don't see much of a case against phone and want to wait for a replacement. So unless we're lynching Cyrus, that leaves Red and Cyan due to POE, even if I don't really have strong arguments against either. It's a compromise lynch for me.

So you suspect me as part of POE. Fair enough, but I still don't think we should ignore phone. There isn't much reason to lynch him right now, but we can't forget that the slot is staying here in this game.

On that note, since you scumread Cyrus, is there anyone you think who might be a possible partner to a scum Cyrus?

[Cyan Talon]

what come on im bored right now lynch me then if you so sure im scum then when i flip town maybe your realize a 2nd time i dont lie .

Maybe you'll realize that dying for the sake of it is never a good thing for you or your team.

[Cyan Talon]

@mod: What is the current deadline?

Paused until we find a replacement (or hopefully, two).

[Cyan Talon]

Well, I confess. I pretty much put down looking at this game altogether until recently because I don't like us having to wait for replacements.

Game's not as dull as it was two days ago, so I should probably (read that as definitely) get back into it.

[Cyan Talon]

Town

: cyrus62

Townlean

: Cyan Talon, Adorable, Robbnva

Meh

: Spangled

Scumlean

: RedFlavor

Scum

: Sera Masumi

this readslist is ass-backwards.

to be very clear, lich is not conftown in my mind. The absence of a counter claim does not mean a claim is valid (

especially

for a softclaim). i'm willing to trust this slot d1 to some extent, but I don't discard the possibility of scum here

Disagreeing with one read is one thing, flat-out contesting the whole read list is another. I'd like an explanation on every slot on here, please.

[Cyan Talon]

spangled ask red and ask cyan i always spam alot .. most of it is me thinking and posting my own thoughts. i am trying to slow the spam though as i am learning and trying to use better wording i been called unstable illogical and i liability by teacher so yes i am trying to improve and help more.

Could you give me a link to a scumgame of yours?

Phone could be newb!scum for me, but he could also be newb!town.
I am tending toward scum, though; his awkwardness hopping on the Robb wagon and his bad logic in doing so. The fact that he unvoted shortly after is NAI to me, but it doesn't clear him of the sheer, unadulterated

awkwardness

of his ISO.
I know it's Day 1, but I think I will go ahead and VOTE: Phone0Ix

Pedit:
Some of those fast votes were really suss, especially Phone's for me.
Pedit 2:
I think it's slightly town indicative; scum are fine with town players being stupid, but only town should react with annoyance.

Hey your wrong but I like the vote!

not a fan of this reaction ngl, just triggers the wrong alarms in me

Be clear on what you mean by 'liking' the vote, please.

[Cyan Talon]

I dont make cases kido

Do you mean you don't make cases in your head, or you won't give us your reasoning?

If you have to make a case then they aren't scum

Assuming scum can blatantly act scummy, maybe. But on this site, that's doubtful.

Making cases is an essential skill in scumhunting; you can't make a push without forming and presenting a case against a target, and generally trying to make a case will help you reinforce or reconsider your reads.

[Cyan Talon]

At this point RedFlavor might actually be scum, who has me in his scumteam list because I'm still an easy lynch apparently

scummy post

that's your cop your calling scummy.

Woah don't spoil me I haven't gotten that far yet!

just didn't want you to look scummy.

Why are you deliberately trying to protect someone else's image, and why are you literally announcing that?

[Cyan Talon]

so basically what you're saying is that it's impossible to meta read you at this time

It is and it isn't. If you look at his game there, you actually get a peek at how he operates, which I'd say is along the lines of 'moderately unreasonable'.

He might be aware of his meta, he might also be a pretty weird player overall. Right now, I'm leaning on Cyrus being town as a carry-over from said game; there's just the idea that he's being too scummy to be scum that I had in said game, and honestly I'm feeling it here.

If anything is nagging me now, it's the moment he took charge of the town early (current) game before reverting back to his old self.

[Cyan Talon]

Spoiler:

Town

: cyrus62

Townlean

: Cyan Talon, Adorable, Robbnva

Meh

: Spangled

Scumlean

: RedFlavor

Scum

: Sera Masumi

this readslist is ass-backwards.

to be very clear, lich is not conftown in my mind. The absence of a counter claim does not mean a claim is valid (

especially

for a softclaim). i'm willing to trust this slot d1 to some extent, but I don't discard the possibility of scum here

Disagreeing with one read is one thing, flat-out contesting the whole read list is another. I'd like an explanation on every slot on here, please.

I’m excluding my slot from this list for obvious reasons
you’re fairly towny, so you’re just about the only read I agree with on there
spangled is a bit townier than null, but not by much
Sera is obvtown
haven’t got a read on red
haven’t got a read on adorable
Cyrus scum

As an addendum, you’re asking questions that are too pedantic and at times reachy, so you’ll inevitably get meme replies in normals (I’m particularly guilty of that). You get town points for asking good questions in a scumhunting sense, but sometimes you need some finesse - mafia is a game where a lot of things happen implicitly and go unsaid. Not game related, it’s just so you know

Here I was thinking that you disagreed with literally everyone's position on that list, but fair enough. I can sort of understand your stances on Sera and Cyrus, but I think you'll need to flesh out your read on Adorable. I remember a good portion of the players read her as towny, and I'd like to see what you think.

[Cyan Talon]

Of course, scum can fake annoyance, or be annoyed on principle because it's just silly to self-vote, especially for absolutely no reason.

this sounds like a bad statement why would scum care about town self voteing . wouldnt scum only get mad if it was thire partner doing it?

Spangled is saying scum can

fake

being mad... I'm not sure how you missed that.

[Cyan Talon]

And sorry about not responding for a while. Life stuff. Anyways...

I can't really refute the argument that I haven't voted this entire game because, duh, I haven't. I'm not keen on voting in general, unless something big catches my eye, and so far nothing explicitly scummy has come to my mind yet. I'm just not the kind of guy to vote on slight leans or things I deem as minor.

Let me reread a bit, I'll see what comes to mind.

[Cyan Talon]

TL I don't think Wheme's refusal to effort is scummy, but it is somewhat antitown.
But scum don't generally tend to not effort, I think; it would draw too much attention to do it outright and talk about it. So they do it without talking about it. Wheme is talking about it. Sure, that doesn't make him any smarter, but it does make him a little more towny.

This I slightly agree with; some people will try to push a lynch without providing any reason while being aware of the fact. I've seen this as either an indication of bad town, PR with information, or scum (which is the most common in my experience, but then again, I play in a chatroom). But in general, scum wouldn't try to draw too much attention to themselves.

But I'd like to know what other reason you have to vote me aside from me not voting anyone.

[Cyan Talon]

This I slightly agree with; some people will try to push a lynch without providing any reason while being aware of the fact. I've seen this as either an indication of bad town, PR with information, or scum (which is the most common in my experience, but then again, I play in a chatroom). But in general, scum wouldn't try to draw too much attention to themselves.

But I'd like to know what other reason you have to vote me aside from me not voting anyone.

question is directed at WhemeStar, whoops

[Cyan Talon]

Cases are boring and scummy

no they aren't, they give town a reason to follow your reads, and can be useful to catch scum

Cases are boring and scummy

no they aren't, they give town a reason to follow your reads, and can be useful to catch scum

Be my blind sheep

Idk spangled just read Cyans iso dude is so neutral on everything and hasn’t placed one vote all game

Just screams scum too me

alright I think I can agree with this case. Yeah, no vote is scummy AF.

VOTE: Cyan Talon

Sera is still a worthy lynch

lol what the fuck
are you actively trying to look scummy, lich? this is quickly reaching levels beyond human comprehension

you've dug a hold so deep that i'm actually really considering voteparking you

What about 805 is scummy?

Nothing in 805 - I quoted it to show the apparent complete lack of a reasonable thought process

807 is where it really zaps my brain. He’s backpedaling hard from his previous stance of strongly disagreeing with RF. All it took was “be my blind sheep” and he turns a complete 180, from “you don’t have a case and therefore you’re scummy” to “you have an ok case, I’m willing to go with it”

disgusting, really.

He could have gone back and reread.

Would he have flipped his read in between two posts, though?

[Cyan Talon]

yeah sera is still my vote

meanwhile, you're still on me

Let me ask a question here. Would you rather have me or Sera lynched as of now, and why?

[Cyan Talon]

Back again, and considering the deadline's probably cutting short and I'm about to die...

I'd like to inform you that if I am to believe everything I currently do as of now, there is a Mafia Roleblocker among us. Meanwhile, let me catch up.

[Cyan Talon]

case of cyan:

177/178 felt towny to me

he was passive in early D1, 269 acknowledges that

334 isn't indicative of efforting

353 is relatable

382 doesn't feel like a good reason to SR cyrus imo

567 can either be towny or scummy, but never null

733 is a good point

737 seems a little unfair

814 is a really bad post, I can't discern Cyan's reads and this post is just salt in the wound

Cyan Talon has

still

yet to vote

My SR is modest, but still an SR. Cyan looks towny at a quick glance, but... cyan hasn't given any useful information

I suppose that in response to this, I'll be posting my reads on everyone as of now. Let me know if I miss anything.

cyrus62: He played a fairly strong early game, but lost the gleam as the day progressed. He's currently null-town to me, since if he were scum his partner would likely be controlling his actions or taking advantage of his lost position, and I don't see any indication of either.

Spangled: While I must admit I like this slot by virtue of gut feeling, he rubs off as fairly neutral to me. Nothing obvtown, and nothing obvscum, so I'm leaning on him being town (albeit slightly less that I do in Cyrus). On the other hand, he seems to want to jump on my wagon while saying outright that he doesn't want to, which is odd.

TemporalLich: Early game was more than a little odd, but the claim he made along the way made me have to revisit any suspicions I had against him (of which there weren't much). I will take his claim for what it is for now, but if anything comes up that tells me he's lying I won't hesitate to push further.

Adorable: Null-town. She's not very active, but seems to be honest with her plays. Everyone seems to be townreading her, so I get the feeling someone's trying to pocket her. Who it is, I can't be sure, but pocketing more likely to be directed at town than at scum.

Sera Masumi: This slot is who I'd believe to be town more than anyone else. She was actively catching up with the game and put in a lot of effort into scumhunting; that's generally a more towny thing than scum for obvious reasons. However, as Adorable pointed out, she has gone inactive, which hurts my stance on her a bit.

Osuka/WhemeStar: Bunching these together because they're fairly new in the PL (referring to join time not experience). I feel like people who replace in give out a sort of aura that makes them easier to read as town or scum than players who have been playing the game for longer, and my feeling here is that Osuka is more likely to be town than WhemeStar slightly. The difference is small, though, and I might just be unconsciously biased against WhemeStar for lynching me, so I'd rather refer to both of them as nullreads.

RedFlavor: Blank slate; neither he or his sub have spoken much. Can't read text that isn't existent.

[Cyan Talon]

yeah my vote isnt moving, You are not cop, My guess is there is a mafia RB, and you are claiming a role that exists 2/3 of the time. you want a CC so you can RB the cop. and kill someone else, effectively canceling out the cop. You are likely not the RB, as you made the claim.

Post 893 has some information that would argue otherwise.

[Cyan Talon]

yeah my vote isnt moving, You are not cop, My guess is there is a mafia RB, and you are claiming a role that exists 2/3 of the time. you want a CC so you can RB the cop. and kill someone else, effectively canceling out the cop. You are likely not the RB, as you made the claim.

Post 893 has some information that would argue otherwise.

um, sorry, i meant 892. whoops

anyway, consider what i'm implying behind my statement. it would tell you that there likely isn't a Mafia RB if TL is lying with his cop claim

[Cyan Talon]

yeah my vote isnt moving, You are not cop, My guess is there is a mafia RB, and you are claiming a role that exists 2/3 of the time. you want a CC so you can RB the cop. and kill someone else, effectively canceling out the cop. You are likely not the RB, as you made the claim.

Post 893 has some information that would argue otherwise.

um, sorry, i meant 892. whoops

anyway, consider what i'm implying behind my statement. it would tell you that there likely isn't a Mafia RB if TL is lying with his cop claim

what are you implying? that you are a PR too? because if you are stop. Otherwise you are willing to accept a claim, even though a fake one has already been made. Are you not curious why a PR wouldnt interrogate a fake claim, or atleast ask them a question? also why hard claim when no one asks for it? we had a soft claim, it satisfied everyone apparently up to this point, why be explicit?

Said fakeclaim was most likely an obvious attempt at a joke. I'm not sure how you seem to be seeing it, but it doesn't look like a claim people would take very seriously. He didn't interrogate it because he thought Phone was fucking around, plain and simple.

And yes, I am willing to accept this claim. I hinted at myself being PR because I was (and still am) in danger of being lynched. There's also the point you made that he decided to hardclaim out of the blue; need I tell you that he was being pushed by

you?

He implied in his claim that he shifted to a hardclaim because you were pushing him.

[Cyan Talon]

Right, I think hes the best lynch right now, if hes cop 2 people on the original wagon are scum, as he wasnt hammered after his claim. when he flips scum we know we are on the right track with PRs. He is the best lynch, Since we dont have a VC I would encourage a shift this way. Also the first post SE intro is a proven scum tell for new SEs btw. Look at my scum games, look at the completed ones, its something new SEs do when they get excited about being scum.

I am fairly certain in a game like this, if he claimed PR he would die for it if it was real. Like how did he softclaim and not die at L1 to scum?

his actions dont make sense with his role.

I think one scum was on his wagon bussing or none at all.

Don't forget that placing a hammer vote out of the blue puts the hammering slot in suspicion. Sometimes, scum can be more concerned about surviving than eliminating PRs.