Role Call I (Game Over)

[popsofctown]

@all: which player are you least confident in your ability to read?

[popsofctown]

From every player's POV they want Uni backup and King to keep them from falling into scum hands, unless they're scum and want to guarantee that. Why is it scummy for HH not to post something disingenous like "I like inactive and inventor"?

[popsofctown]

I'm never silly.

[popsofctown]

I'm getting at that a difficult to read player seems like the best fit for the IC role.

[popsofctown]

I have some omgus feelings about CheekyTeeky

[popsofctown]

HURT: Whimsicott

[popsofctown]

RC you better say Protoss

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Hidden Happiness
It's not unusual for some players to be disinterested by mechanics, but there's so many little things you can comment on here that it seems a little implausible she'd get bored. It's not stuff like hypoclaiming hider it's stuff like, do I want my scumread to become a miller? (I think I don't I think I just want to lynch my scumread).

I don't think the king's actions should be leashed on D3 but I think the king should be held accountable for his actions. It's possible the D3 roster is so powerful that the scum gets positive equity from the king drawing up a blatantly antitown playbook and being lynched the next day, granting inactive to the person we made the inventor or maybe even someone we made a cop day 2, killing the D5 IC, granting himself vengeful maybe... it could be some really bad stuff. So I think the kingship should be granted to a townread. A widely townread king who gets NKed would be good for us, a town king is only slightly better than a democratic day 3 and nothing like the advantage generated by a town inventor, the IC, probably it doesn't matter even as much as motion detector.

[popsofctown]

Leashing the king gives him 2 options, perform the democratic proposal, or defect and anticipate being lynched for it and do as he likes. He gets to find out what's in the proposal before he chooses, so he can choose not to defect because we've put antitown stuff in the proposal by accident.
Leaving the king unleashed only gives him 1 option, defect, he's always accountable for what he does with the proposal.

If the roster of actions day 3 is weak enough that it'd never be worth sacrificing a scum teammate to control them, I think leashing is worthwhile in that case. But if defecting is a realistic play then I think it's better not to put the ball in scum court. And the scum won't get to influence the proposal if it's not democratic.

[popsofctown]

Please sign hydra posts

[popsofctown]

You are supposed to kill a negative utility PR, forcing the universal backup to become a negative utility PR. It's opposite day.


I have no idea why you are complaining about the setup design resulting in a nightkill strategy of kill the most protown player because that's the nightkill strategy in mountainous and also the nightkill strategy in basically any closed game where no successful rolefishing took place.

It's a social deduction game you're supposed to want to remove the people who are doing well at the social deduction game sorry you're not going to have some kind of fascinating decision whether it's better to surprise Veigar ult the healer before their heal spell or value removing the ranged carry but I would really consider my expectation betrayed rather than fulfilled if the rolecall mechanic added a separate axis for the nightkills instead of mostly being standard mafia.

[popsofctown]

@callforjudgment: if we were given this exact same role list tomorrow, and we gave the miller role to the player who we previously made day 5 IC, that player would receive no modconfirmation of innocence on day 5 regardless of alignment, correct?

[popsofctown]

HEAL: mankey

[popsofctown]

If the roster of actions day 3 is weak enough that it'd never be worth sacrificing a scum teammate to control them, I think leashing is worthwhile in that case. But if defecting is a realistic play then I think it's better not to put the ball in scum court. And the scum won't get to influence the proposal if it's not democratic

If the roles from today were the roles for Day 3, what would you suggest we do to the King?

Weak enough to leash for sure. But I expect Day 3 to be stronger.

[popsofctown]

Here's a new strategy: Let's all in to games we know we won't play. Like, if you're on a holiday. or if you have exams, or you have a new job.. you're wedding is within a week.. etc.

You're an aussie but many people here treat American Independence day as a one shot, 1 day, 24 hour holiday. My parents planned dinner and a movie. I don't think it's unreasonable at all to /in for a game knowing you'll have a 1 day absence coming up.

If apthet is going to take Friday off from work and combine the weekend into a 5 day vacation I'm definitely with you, though, I missed Pokémon Ruby Mafia because I knew I had a 1 week vacation coming up.

Iconeum replaced into a game about a week before its wedding so we can policy lynch Iconeum here if you feel strongly about this

[popsofctown]

I'm getting at that a difficult to read player seems like the best fit for the IC role.

That would be RC (The SSS hydra) then. They're hard to lynch without a hard guilty, yet everybody wants to lynch them from the word go anyway.

If the RC hydra is scum, theyll probably try for a flawless victory anyway, which means day5 is too late of a sorting for the slot.

Bad allocation there id say.

This is a terrible post. Why are you trying to appeal to fear like this? People talk up RC's reputation a lot but suggesting he can protect all of his partners with 100% reliability is flat absurd.

[popsofctown]

From what I know of RC he gives a similar high level of effort as both alignments making effort=town less indicative for him than it is in a vacuum. You have to read him with different methods.

[popsofctown]

Can my proposal assign an avatar to RC hydra

[popsofctown]

Why are you positive you'll be NKed?

[popsofctown]

Your win condition isn't to make momo happy it's to kill all the mafia.

If he's truly your top townread you should want him king.
I don't particularly want the gladiator ability to be on someone who's eager to use it. Gladiator days generate less information. It's only a half step away from governor where technically if you fire it very accurately it furthers the town wincon but overall you're subverting the protown mechanics of the game and it's negative utility really.

[popsofctown]

Yeah I think 166 might be at least half as scummy as it is dumb so I'm not crazy about him becoming king.

I'd rather you be king

[popsofctown]

Ew, preflip associatives. Why do people do those? Especially day 1?

No one seems to see Vecna the same way as me huh. I wonder if I would read him differently with a different avatar. I hate that tv show.

[popsofctown]

All players are multiacting and both the NK and the rolestop are factional. Deactivating RC does very little. If Day2 has a watcher it maybe helps scum!RC's partner not misplay, lol. Oh, actually we have motion detector today there's that.

An inactive RC is weakened as last scum standing but I thought your stance was that you agree with Vecna about presuming a game with a lategame scum!RC is lost (which I still think is toxick and defeatist)

[popsofctown]

Aw man I missed watching the post that would change my title.

It changed sixish posts ago

[popsofctown]

Looking at the log, at 4:01 p.m. I had 4999 posts and Almost50 posted saying he wants me to be an inventor. At 4:03 pm I posted in the anime discussion thread and became a Jack of All Trades which is kinda similar to inventor

[popsofctown]

There have been no previous proposals.

Current proposal

(by momo ):

• 1-shot Gladiator
  : momo
  Nope not a fan, see my previous posts. Prefer 1-shot Gladiator : Hidden Happiness, since they're too apathetic to dig into mechanics and hopefully additional too hydra to use a high-risk high-reward mechanic. When I play Mario Kart Double Dash co-op I'm too scared to take the fancy shortcuts and embarrass myself and harm my poor teammate, true story.
  
  
• Inactive
  : Saudade
  I'm pretty o.k. with this
  
  
• Day 5 Innocent Child
  : Oversoul
  This seems wasteful as this slot seems legible. I'd prefer to see this on Nero Cain, who I remember difficulty reading, CheekyTeeky who has seemed to start to establish a difficult to read style so far, or even just like "the hydra because hydras are hard to read"
  
  
• Inventor
  : popsofctown
  I'm not going to object to getting the second most powerful role, I think if I sketched out what my INT DEX STR CHR WIS LUK spread was for mafia I'm better at scumreading than at townreading compared to the average player (but it's still easier to townread), for the record.
  
  
• Day 3 King
  : Vecna
  ok I guess I can swallow pride/proxy ego enough for this, certainly not a slot who is going to be lazy and submit rand choices.
  
  
• Macho
  : Lil Uzi Vert
  Yeah I don't think LUV is generally NK bait
  
  
• Miller
  : apthet
  We don't have posts from this player. Miller should go to a high legibility player. It's the opposite of day 5 IC. I'd want to see this on Oversoul or Almost50 or momo.
  [*]

  Odd-Night Motion Detector

  : Gamma Emerald

  This is actually kind of fits GE a bit I think he would tend to survive a to get lots of shots off. It doesn't necessarily need to fall in town hands because a Motion Detector can themselves be caught in a lie at times.

  
  [*]

  Neighbour

  : Nero Cain

  I'd rather the neighborhood go to a townread player or at least someone who I think would use it. There's scenarios where you want to communicate night action results only in the neighborhood so an all town neighborhood can be good and NC is pretty null to me so far.

  
  [*]

  Neighbour

  : Almost50

  I tentatively TR Almost50 so this is ok

  
  [*]

  Timid

  : Hidden Happiness

  This role is basically VT. VT/ "can't become king if callforjudgment distributes a king again". So it's whatever

  
  [*]

  Night 1 Universal Backup

  : CheekyTeeky

  One of the scummier slots in the game for me by PoE so I'm ok with it getting a negative utility role, which it is pretty likely this becomes.

  
  [*]

  Vanilla

  : Iconeum

  This is an excellent role for someone who went 49 hours without visiting the thread in a recent game >_> <_< >_>

  
  [*]

  Compulsive Quitter

  : Titus

The replace-out and the events leading up to it don't look great. I think RC is a guy who maybe has some kinds of principles and sensibilities going on that are not necessarily 100% married to his alignment, but I don't see anyway this lynch is -worse- than rand, I don't think he'd set up a categorical rule against replacing out as scum over issue X or Y.

"color" commentary by drunkpops

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Vote: Against willing to let the perfect be the enemy of the good here

[popsofctown]

why can't voting work like it did in 2008

[popsofctown]

I played One Night Ultimate Werewolf with my roommate and some friends last night and tried to explain that the rulebook says the troublemaker "may" exchange two other player's alignments, so I refused to use the ability since it's anti-town, but I was actually town troublemaker. My roommate said that was very logical but what about something from my heart. I said the odds I was not a werewolf were currently 25% with current gamestate information. I was told once again that that was not from the heart. Then I was mislynched and lost.

[popsofctown]

I am pretty disappointed that the SSS hydra has replaced out. Hydras are sort of inherently unfair but at least they replace out at a drastically lower rate because a single head can play the slot. But not in this case? Can you either get an unfair advantage over me in your games or damage the integrity of the games I play but not both, pretty please.
I don't have the answer to these ethical questions about the replace out but actual strategic replace-outs are definitely/obviously gross and bad human. I think I've only replaced out of 1 game because I needed to focus on my grades and had to drop down to 0 ongoing games of mafia. The idea that some people start to develop a replacement meta is.. blegh.

[popsofctown]

oh then we should get the neighbor roles so that cfj doesn't have to bother making a Private Topic I guess.

[popsofctown]

Saudade slots is scummy but after a post like 426 I'm willing to like, BoP a slot in lieu of lynching it.
Vecnis (sp?) slot is getting better.

I feel like apthet has managed to post an awful lot without really towntelling, Saudade slot scumread seems like the kind of scumread that's not that hard to redraw with one hand holding a red role card so I find it less town indicative than even little stuff other players are doing.

A50 slot still seems town I'm kinda ok with A50 deep wolfing me.

Cheeky hasn't posted in a day or 2 I don't know if it's literally proddable.

Iconeum seems to be going along to get along, simply voting for on the first proposal pings me. Such a low radar cross section, I'd even be happier with someone who voted For and obnoxiously criticized one of the assignments in spite of themselves.

[popsofctown]

360 summarizes what I'd change, the main difference I've thought about since then is I would swap Iconeum and Hidden Happiness since I think Iconeum wouldn't have a problem viewing Timid as a French Vanilla Townie and Hidden Happiness is having trouble viewing it that way (in such a fashion that one can respectably agree to disagree about).

[popsofctown]

HEAL: whimsicott

[popsofctown]

HURT: Gamma Emerald

[popsofctown]

VOTE: callforjudgment

[popsofctown]

I don't like the way popsofctown shuts down the preflip associatives in 194. I think it fits with the archetype of scum that is focused on seeming to be rational, picking holes in arguments and lines of questioning here and there to look helpful. I also think that momo's theory is the focal point of the game at this point and his only response is to shut it down.

Links to townpops bitching at people that preflip associatives are not good mafia:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 2#p7739942

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... +#p7668605

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10920972

Links to scumpops bitching at people that preflip associatives are not good mafia:

<I don't have any but it wouldn't stop being true so I promise it's just I haven't rolled scum enough times>

Links to townpops playing from the heart:

[popsofctown]

It did have a point, which was pretty strongly implicit but is even more explicit in a subsequent post but you're responding to stuff as your catch-up progresses I guess.

I reserve the right to make posts that are asymptotically close to being perpendicular and irrelevant to my wincon on top of that though, in some ways I take mafia pretty seriously but it's still a game I play with imaginary people in a world of electricity tubes and decide which ones are my imaginary friends or secretly my imaginary enemies with no objectively coherent basis for doing so.

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Nero Cain

[popsofctown]

how about we generate consensus that gladiator is an antitown role and that actually using the shot is a scumclaim
and just give it to one of the 80% of the playerbase that doesn't do stuff like fake guilty results as town and lolhammer before the claim in opens.

[popsofctown]

Some people pull off a gladiate without the PR actually anyway. There's a dayplay pattern for it.

[popsofctown]

does he count replace-outs as defeats?
I count them as defeats.

[popsofctown]

HEAL: vecna

[popsofctown]

Because of the Universal Backup you can just give the PRs to townreads. The mafia cannot remove a PR from the game by shooting at it until MAYBE N2, maybe not even then, we don't know what will be in the pool tomorrow, there might be a watcher or doctor who knows.

TBH it seems like a design flaw and cfj think 8 chess moves ahead on what this setups N0 unlimited mafia rolecop shots does to the NK game.

This is mostly in response to 554

[popsofctown]

ok just ignore me then

[popsofctown]

I feel like Day5 IC is almost wasted on... almost.

Yeah. Swap GE and Almost and I'd vote to pass that

[popsofctown]

My thoughts is that planning out the whole game on day 1 and trying to win a 6 day mafia game with 1 game of dayplay instead of 6 days of dayplay is absurdly bad play

[popsofctown]

As has been explained multiple times already. No. As long as the backup is a TR, this is irrelevant.

You're irrelevant.

If people keep the roles the whole game and the backup is just one night...what do you think happens after that?
ALSO giving top town reads top roles and not caring if those top town reads are killed is beyond foolish.

By the time the scum can shoot the PRs, our townreads and scimreads are likely to have changed anyway

[popsofctown]

RCslot is better than randscum and high enough to lynch but not higher than 50% to flip red, unpopular opinion though it may be

[popsofctown]

I read the post as a poor quality that inoffensive joke suggesting that Gamma Emerald was planning to tempt Nero with crack so that he becomes readable after partaking, rather than saying "499 is incoherent and GE must have been on crack when he wrote it". I thought maybe rile has different slang meanings in ... Africa

499 is such a coherent post it just made even less sense to read it the other way

[popsofctown]

*poor quality but inoffensive

[popsofctown]

Oversoul van be my ride or die homey

The frustration from the HH slot also feels somewhat genuine

Scum can experience genuine frustration
Scum can experience genuine frustration
Scum can experience genuine frustration
Scum can experience genuine frustration
Scum can experience genuine frustration

I like this post

[popsofctown]

@HH Who is !Maria in your hydra?

I think OS can be weak town and pops might be scum wanting to have Gamma and Vecna fight.

That's literally the opposite of what I posted?
And I'm a little offended you'd think I'd employ that as scumplay? That's gross?

[popsofctown]

Do you really think that on night 2 the Universal Backup's Motion Detector (can't be deployed that night) Inventor (one shot already consumed) or... neighbor...?.. is going to be the most powerful PR available for the mafia to shoot at after D2 roles are distributed?

I couldn't come up with a 12 item list of approved normal roles that are valid that all duck that.
There is no actual capability for the scum to combination town-hunt_PR-hunt

[popsofctown]

people think townreads should be bad roles so that scum can't shoot a townread and a power role at the same time.

Something they can't start doing until night 2.

Maybe.

[popsofctown]

oh i thought you were referring to my previous post

[popsofctown]

sure you can think i am scum for taking GE's side on interpreting HH that's whatever

[popsofctown]

There's plenty of consensus the main issue is that the current proposal needs to be rejected before a new one can be proposed.

[popsofctown]

That puts Against at L-1, someone hammer it

[popsofctown]

also, can you walk me through your strong townread on pops? Ive forgotten why I wasnt susp of that slot.

My avi is super cute pls learn my ways

[popsofctown]

I came in, gave the correct response when I recovered. What more do you want? I can't catch the entire scumteam, explain optimal strategy, stop town from biting it's own head off, block scum from getting the PRs and clear myself alone.

You could case an alternative day 1 lynch with something more than a vague platitude and skip all those other things.

[popsofctown]

I don't really like the idea of giving scummy players a miller role b/c assuming we get a cop @ some point they can just use but "im a miller" as an excuse for why they invested as red. Miller should go to someone that's town and a that's being heavily town read by the majority.

And for that reason, I'm out.

VOTE: against

[popsofctown]

Yeah I would not actually lynch someone for being an irresponsible player if it hurts my wincon.

It would be great if Titus could stop calling people a curse word, I know compliance is at -25% when I've requested that in mafia games but on I go.

VOTE: Vote:Against

Would have proposed momo's post if I got to the thread before someone else did.

[popsofctown]

I put forth the following as proposal

Gladiator - Hidden Happiness
Inactive - Saudude
D5 IC - Gamma Emerald
Inventor - popsofctown
D3 King - momo
Macho - CheekyTeeky
Miller - Nero Cain
Odd Night Motion Detector - Lil Uzi Vert
Neighbor - Oversoul
Neighbor- almost50
Timid - Iconeum
N1 Universal Backup - Vecna
Vanilla - apthet
Compulsive Quitter - Titus


VOTE: For

[popsofctown]

ESTABLISH NEW BONDS

[popsofctown]

[popsofctown]

2 people who know eachother and want to neighbor have not come forward except Saudade but CheekyTeeky ignored him.

I know you used your mason PT

to hone confirmation bias and better mislynch me

effectively in SC mafia and Oversoul is enthusiastic about being a neighbor so at least the PT would get used

[popsofctown]

reasons to date oversoul:
- cute whimsicott avi
- pretty old school 2011 is like 2008-lite
- good grammar
- probably has a soul
- only counterplay to dragon types

[popsofctown]

I would maybe put Titus in a neighborhood

If I wasn't more interested in depriving her of her final breath in this one.

I see some shards of her scumgame in the last couple pages, opposite reaction from Vecna

[popsofctown]

I mean maybe a50 said that

but did i remember it?

no i did not

if iconeum is gonna lowkey scumside and vote yes every single proposal and maybe like 2-3 other people do that i wanted to jam a proposal rather than take a moment to research my choices better because now there's strategic edge to proposing at that point

[popsofctown]

Good we have the same read on Nero you should like Nero Miller. Please vote yes on my proposal so you can share investigation results on N3 with my other townread I put in the neighborhood

[popsofctown]

Whimsicott can Fling Berries, doesn't that sound at least a little like monkey business?

[popsofctown]

Iconeum has demonstrated a lack of concern for the details nitty gritty details of each proposal so he should be minimally damaged by the (already minimal ) debuff.

I'd have given it to myself if I could simultaneously give myself inventor

[popsofctown]

I do not feel like he has done any real scumhunting this game. He called you out for wanting King, among other roles, and then when momo did it he looked the other way. I feel like he is purposefully trying to keep a low profile in a game with a lot of head strong players.

Also, your proposal is so far out of left field I don't even know what to do with it. For the record, I would never use my gladiator ability (unless I had a guilty).

I think the way ice has played the game has been fine compared to other players. I know a fact no one would ever say yes to my proposal but I felt if I threw it out there it'd draw some attention to my slot so people would stop ignoring me

This is a poor way to draw attention. A player of your calliber is perfectly capable of getting attention. Throwing away your proposal like that seems fishy.

I mean maybe a50 said that

but did i remember it?

no i did not

if iconeum is gonna lowkey scumside and vote yes every single proposal and maybe like 2-3 other people do that i wanted to jam a proposal rather than take a moment to research my choices better because now there's strategic edge to proposing at that point

I voted yes on one (1) proposal this game. One. I've been playing this game, and was VLA for the weekend. How is that lowkeying?

The V/LA is what makes me upset about the For vote. Because any reasonable timetable for that proposal passing has you performing no further dayplay and coming back on Monday to perform night actions. Town!Iconeum wants a larger part in D1 than that.

If you, for whatever RL reasons, were active on MS.net during the process of the proposal passing I'd be less pissed that you voted For. You're either scum or were willing to put very little effort into Day 1.

[popsofctown]

there is no way to night kill the PRs in this setup

[popsofctown]

The following roles are worse than VT, VT, or slightly better than VT.

1-shot Gladiator

Day 3 King

"big" but negative utility)

Miller

:

Neighbour

:

Neighbour

:

Timid

:

Inactive

:

Vanilla

:

Macho

:

The following role is X-shot and can fire off every single meaningful shot, Universal Backup in consideration, before the mafia kill it if they dedicate their lives to shooting at it:

Inventor

:

The following role essentially performs it's function in the process of being NKed. And it averages itself out by getting NKed at a higher rate on towny players, but providing greater benefit on towny players since such players would have deepwolfed a full win:

Day 5 Innocent Child

:

The following role is cheaper to rolestop than it is to double NK and has lots of false positives and is odd-night and watered down. All that taken into account, it is the closest it comes to NK argument being true which is why I gave it to a soft townread instead of a hard townread:

Odd-Night Motion Detector

:

The following role is the reason this is all actually dumb and mafia are actually going to NK inactive or miller rather than dismantle us by shooting our townread King and forcing us to play mafia on day 3 oh noes:

Night 1 Universal Backup

:

[popsofctown]

If my proposal doesn't pass, as new proposals are generated I want people to look at the miller and universal backup assignments that are in mine and the other one that got close to passing and reuse those. Because the idea that mafia are playing dumb about this NK strategy stuff and trying to reroll until they get a mafia miller is horrifying to me.
The mafia are even less likely (I guess I shouldn't say even less likely, enough of you seem to refuse to see this the same way as me that at least a couple have to be town) to perceive an proposal as being flawed because it has a strong optimal play of shooting a certain PR slot, because they know which slots are town and scum and can plan the hypothetical N1 kill and look at how the hypothetical N1 kill moves onto the N1 backup. It's kind of like as a beginner at chess it's a little easier to see that a move makes check if you're allowed to physically move the chess piece into that position and will be able to take it back if you don't like how it looks, versus having to imagine possible moves. So they're the ones pretending not to follow because they see it's an acceptable position because townies are taking it, but they're actually hoping for a miller reroll. Don't give it to them. You can reroll the motion detector into whatever the worst possible position is, I don't care, but a miller deepwolf scares me.

[popsofctown]

there is no way to night kill the PRs in this setup

Wait what?

Figuratively not literally. See 938

[popsofctown]

Odd-Night Motion Detector: Lil Uzi Vert I haven't actually been paying too much attention to the proposals until now, but this is the role I'd prefer to get. I think it has potential to synergize well with

my role

, although there's no guarantee that it will really pay off in any impactful way

Could you explain the underlined bit? Are we not all just vanilla townies?

Apthet can multiact her factional rolestop

[popsofctown]

VOTE: CheekyTeeky

[popsofctown]

I just wanted to get the inventor role and change my avatar to Miu.

But none of you will let me have a nice thing.

[popsofctown]

I don't think I'm ready to say more.

Is this a softclaim?

[popsofctown]

Let apthet answer

[popsofctown]

wait gross now it's a townslip not a scumclaim

I wanted free d1 scum

[popsofctown]

cfj probably formatted the scum role pms as "you are a multiacting mafia" or something so it's not impregnable townslip but still townslippy/would require her to think of that and etc

I like 994 even less now

[popsofctown]

Baezu is still active on site
RC is still active on site
Why did the hydra replace out

[popsofctown]

@mod

recommend if you rerun the setup to send alignment PMs instead of role PMs. FakeGod did that for Guns and Roses and I think it worked out pretty well.

[popsofctown]

@

mod

I motiondetector and rolestopper target the same person, does the motion detector get "no motion" or "no result"?

[popsofctown]

Glork is God's gift to mafia.

But God is taking him back

[popsofctown]

Apthet misunderstood that everyone has multiacting, and receiving motiondetector N1 synergizes with receiving doc or something N2 with the multiacting.

She asked you politely to pay attention to her pronoun and start using it.

[popsofctown]

Nero momo is scum or agency captured dude

I am also drunk

This game is probably over because scum will just spam all the smart town are scum protect the strong PRs they gave themselves

Like every role that has lynch potential control has a scumread on it.

ik u sr a50 but we agreed earlier in the game as town (which you would know if you read the game you fucking replaced into) that using the gladiator role is basically a scum claim.

pops isn't scum. that's facts.

You agreed to be an idiot or help scum. I didn't.

Pops is almost certainly scum. So is A50.

Could you explain your transition?

[popsofctown]

momo mentioned suspicion of A50 I still have him in the town half of the playerlist.

[popsofctown]

Agency captured can town, sure, so I'm more suspicious of your progression on me. Not sure why town!Titus is giving me credit for an a50 stance I haven't taken and not sure I'd buy the shift even if I had actually done so.

[popsofctown]

Oh jesus. I thought my modifier was unique. Carry on. I'm so embarassed.

Who told you? I don't suppose you "suddenly" decided to look at the OP at this point, so "someone somewhere" must've pointed it out for you.

It largely depends on whether you see town!apthet visiting the OP in reaction to post 999.

I bought that but I see less than 100% equity in that and some equity in her figuring it out the other way.

[popsofctown]

I often don't see the role pms posted in the OP. This setup subverts the point of the feature so it's quite possible CJF did not post the (duplicate) role PMs into the PT

[popsofctown]

None of Titus's read progression seems authentic. She's as of now suspicious of both a50 and apthet even though those slots are very much in opposition to eachother. I don't know what HH or Vecna see in this slot.

[popsofctown]

A50, who is scum? Who is town?

[popsofctown]

I have this weird feeling the game is probably 1 deepwolf 2 obvscum, because otherwise the proposals would have either butterglided or hardbounced.

Am I crazy?

[popsofctown]

Would you be content NOT lynching one of your own?

Yes especially if you are a flying black dragon

[popsofctown]

I'm criticizing iconeum for its action of lolwhatever approving proposal1 with no critical thinking not criticizing it for being a black dragon that is ok I won a prerelease with Skithryx the Blight Dragon once it was very strong please don't modkill me callforjudgment

[popsofctown]

Why aren’t we lynching scum yet?

Who's the scum then, Uzi?

[popsofctown]

@pops, how are A50 and apthet in opposition to each other when I've highlighted A50 not posting game related content since I came in?

The closest he has is hard core needling my mistakes while babying Apthet.

Yet he votes against my lynch.

But sure, I have a wierd progression on A50 because he's been obvscum since I came in... and apthet may have tried to fake a townslip.

They don't work very well as town together.

I kinda don't like A50's recent posting either.

I'd maybe vote a proposal where you bus him if it has me getting a rocket launcher or something in it.

[popsofctown]

Titus putting down 4 people as scum seems like scum trying to fake a townslip to me (cause scum obv knows that there are only 3 scum).

The timing is bad (pressure is mounting against her) and there’s no way someone can be so incompetent as town that they don’t know how many scum are in this game.

She’s clearly scum guys. If anyone can say she’s town after that “slip”, I don’t understand you.

I would do that as town. The number of scums doesn't matter because you're not trying to lynch a certain number of them, you're trying to lynch all of them. You don't really lose anything if there are fewer scums in the setup than you thought. You won't lynch any townies trying to find the last one, the nice modman will stop and interrupt you to let you know that you won already

[popsofctown]

I have this weird feeling the game is probably 1 deepwolf 2 obvscum, because otherwise the proposals would have either butterglided or hardbounced.

Am I crazy?

Im afraid this type of setup (while fun and awesome) has a tendency to make a certain crowd "proposal-tired"

+1

It's good game design to give players lots of possible options. With a group of more advance players you can offer even more options. It takes a lot of options before you've offered players too many options.

44 billion is a lot of options though.

[popsofctown]

Cheeky is a pretty good lynch, especially if she's not going to play the game enough for our read on her to change.

[popsofctown]

Do you want to propose something Uzi?

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Against
Vote against and then propose that in your next post and it will become the proposal

[popsofctown]

VOTE: For

Checks enough of the bosses for me right now

[popsofctown]

*boxes

plays-video-games-slip

[popsofctown]

This is the first official proposal to put you as macho

[popsofctown]

@Offical Proposal:

Timid: Hidden Happiness

@mod: proposal listed in votecount is not correct

[popsofctown]

Maybe Titus was a correct lynch and Cheeky is a mislynch and the displeasure with being Timid is actually a cover for displeasure for losing a third of her faction

[popsofctown]

Is that where you're going with this?

[popsofctown]

I really don't like CT's response to her wagon.
And I don't like A50's play lately.

Some games I townread everything and can't find anything I want to die.
This game does not have that problem

[popsofctown]

If Titus is scum it's not particularly random

[popsofctown]

I'm concerned about whether I actually believe that LUV is actually townreading Titus.

[popsofctown]

Whenever you cast a spell that targets only a Titus planeswalker, change that spell's target to another nonTitus permanent it could target at random. Then each other planeswalker loses all loyalty abilities until end of turn. Draw a card.

[popsofctown]

cheekyteeky are you not voting against because we gave your scumpartner miller or something

[popsofctown]

Saudade is proddable

[popsofctown]

That guy's replace-out rate is pretty high

[popsofctown]

HH slot can both claim part of the hydra actively desires a role scum would never want, yet plausibly put forth a proposal that does not give themselves that role because the other head doesn't want it. No nonhydra slot could do that and this is why I so quickly /in when I see a no-hydra game in a queue..

[popsofctown]

HH slot can both claim part of the hydra actively desires a role scum would never want, yet plausibly put forth a proposal that does not give themselves that role because the other head doesn't want it. No nonhydra slot could do that and this is why I so quickly /in when I see a no-hydra game in a queue..

It'd take me a moment but I can link you games where I've said I hate being IC
pedit: No problem mr A50.

I 100% believe you, that doesn't resolve the issue. Earnest or not your slot is still able to townspew by wanting the IC slot yet not obtain the IC slot. That generates advantage whether your town or scum, maybe even more advantage as town.

In this particular game-state I don't think HHslot has enough control of the game for the hydra edge to matter but it's an annoying hydra edge if it were to actually matter.

Also this is something that would bug me even more if I were scum this game which is why I shouldn't post it but I'm gonna follow my town backspace key rule

[popsofctown]

VOTE: against

[popsofctown]

I'm unfamiliar with the Varsoon game.

[popsofctown]

Saudade is proddable

why would you do this

so pisskop can read the thread sooner?

[popsofctown]

Saudade frequently replaces out like this, I saw him do it as town somewhere, I don't think it's very alignment indicative for him.

[popsofctown]

pisskop are you fully caught up?

[popsofctown]

You don't plan to read the whole thread you mean?

[popsofctown]

There is a page I wanted to highlight to you if you're not going to read everything idk what's lamist about that

[popsofctown]

Glork has a couple GD posts in the past month.

[popsofctown]

1294 is resonant enough I townread this slot too much to want it inactive

[popsofctown]

I think I've seen cfj submit evens open setups without vigs before but that might have been somebody else
It's definitely pretty low on the list of things that are important right now

[popsofctown]

14 player themes are a statement the mod wants to dodge the slower mini-theme queue and have maximal chance of the game filling and run a game similar to a minitheme

[popsofctown]

1348 seems like a scummy post
Since it benefit Vecna to be good at reading Saudade now that Saudade is gone
Unless Vecna is thinking about the next time he plays with Saudade
But uh that's not something most people wanna spend time thinking about

[popsofctown]

Vecna to what extent should I think your argument with Nero Cain indicates you two don't share an alignment?

This game needs more old fashioned scumhunting and less arguing over the watered down PRs. Probably.

[popsofctown]

like, Vecna is trying to pretend like he's happy about something, like his win% went up based on pisskop's posts

But if pisskop just rose up to the same townread he had on Saudade his win% didn't go up that much.

Also he lost a possible opportunity for win% if pisskop replaced in and had a mega-scummy catchup

It seems like he's making sure to display an emotion but it turns out to be one that's not quite appropriate

I'm not like looking to assign him inactive or compulsive quitter just the kinda thing I feel like pointing out in case someone rereads the game in some intense 3 man lylo or something

[popsofctown]

pls no ego.mafia
the game is so much more fun when we all play humble

[popsofctown]

VOTE: against

Vote this down quickly for this game's damn pace
We are not D1 lynching apthet that's beyond dumb.

[popsofctown]

Why aren't we lynching the slot that contributed the least so far? pisskop already managed 4x as many posts as apthet had all game.

Cause CT's posts in your scum PT don't count as contribution

[popsofctown]

a50 what the flip thats unambiguoussly within the bounds of the game

[popsofctown]

they said i could be anything so i became a bashful monkey

[popsofctown]

apthet you're the best roommate I ever had

[popsofctown]

Shadoweh am I town?

[popsofctown]

The word "fluff" has been used in like 6 of my career mislynches.

Thanks for answering my question Shadoweh

[popsofctown]

but I wanna have fun with you Shadoweh

[popsofctown]

I'm not big into "call out the whole scumteam" but if I was it'd be almost50/Nero Cain/CheekyTeeky

[popsofctown]

No cause it's not the "Eliminate" action

[popsofctown]

yeah that's like 100% preflip assoc

[popsofctown]

Why did you pick who you did for the neighborhood and the ON MD? Is Vecna Inactive because of your seat or some other reason?

I liked Pops thing about giving LUV a hood role b/c he's "bad" at them. MD and Vecna's role stayed the same. Where would you like to see ppl?

Think you might be giving me credit for someone else's work

[popsofctown]

The proposal mechanic is obligatory.

This is one of those situations where provable randomness could actually provide a different option for how to play the setup. I'm not going to check the OP to see whether cfj is in the 1%, I am sure that's banned.

[popsofctown]

I'm pretty happy with a CT-Titus lynchpool, in that order, and some sane assignment of roles.

[popsofctown]

someone draw up a lynch Cheek proposal
I don't even feel picky about the PRS anymore

[popsofctown]

It's suspicious AF to shift to a very similar lynch with marginally better (if better at all) equity after people voting down a CT lynch proposal "because of the roles".

It's very circumstantial

[popsofctown]

It really bugs me for you to have a seven card lynchpool

[popsofctown]

*cries in fairy type* I like playing with oversoul


Iconeum is far enough on the scummy side of null that I'm ok with PLing there to be humane to the mod and go a lil bit against my wincon with that, esp. if the replacement need has doubled.

I kinda like OS's readslist Nero Cain being the freshest and newest addition to the bottom list for me after his lynchpool was so fat.

[popsofctown]

that was vecna
my lethargy is palpable isn't it

I find it implausible in this game state that a fellow townie wouldn't have five lynch cantidates they found head and shoulders better than lynch number six. I would go so far as to repeat that statement for X=3

[popsofctown]

VOTE: buy what hiddenhappiness is selling me

[popsofctown]

luv is just going to not use the neighbor PT, and his refusal to use the neighbor PT will not be alignment indicative for lil uzi vert

[popsofctown]

I think putting a proposal out so overtitus can look at it while they read the 60 pages is much better than not doing so because some notetaking/learning styles would prefer that.

I think not hammering a proposal until our replacements are caught up is an o.k. policy though

[popsofctown]

Nero has enough scum equity at this point I'm not worried about him having scum gladiator, I could just lynch him and feel like it's a good %age lynch.

It's not like momo where I think he'd gladiate town as town and I townread him right now.

[popsofctown]

I think I attributed the vecna post to him again i have a hard time correcting something after i misread it the first time. bleck

ok i think i stand corrected and there's some risk to nero cain having gladiator but I think the game might need the tempo bad enough to pass a slightly flawed proposal.

Nero Cain please be a pal and don't use gladiate if you get it I promise to give serious and thoughtful attention to cases you make on another player without you jamming the PR behind it

[popsofctown]

[popsofctown]

tfw the mod is the most active player

[popsofctown]

Ugh. 5 day if vecna is a little wasteful. But do I wanna drag today out longer?
I'll hear from the replacements some

[popsofctown]

seems like a special kind of alignment indicative replacement

[popsofctown]

A50 I don't like some of your play this game but I do like you as a player and person

let's dance

[popsofctown]

I insist that dancing with A50 is a mana ability that doesn't use the stack

:PPP

[popsofctown]

Cheeky's reads seemed terrible iirc if she is actually left alive she should get inactive timid or vanilla

[popsofctown]

Only first shot on inventor matters. Inventor should be fine on your TR. It's bad on your scumread where none of the shots will happen they'll be given to a partner or a player who will misuse it or given to the nightkill. Or fake rolestopped.

[popsofctown]

HEAL: post 1669

[popsofctown]

post 1669

[popsofctown]

whether the lynch is titus, CT or A50......dont even mind so much. the role distri is good

...yah imma need that neighborhood

[popsofctown]

king is a day role and can be leashed. overslot is widely townread. this is correct.

[popsofctown]

CT isn't a lurker wagon what few posts she has are awful

[popsofctown]

VOTE: against

[popsofctown]

i'm no longer voting for any proposals unless they have me as a Timid Neighbor Quitter

[popsofctown]

I think part of why the game is going slowly might be because there are 44 billion choices and that might be contributing to activity and replacements.

[popsofctown]

LUV has fallen from "would grant motion detector" status for me too.

[popsofctown]

VOTE: For good enough

[popsofctown]

wait you can vote without manually typing in BBCode?

[popsofctown]

[tweet]CheekyTeeky openwolfing is somehow town indicative[/tweet]

[popsofctown]

Gamma you live in a castle of lies

[popsofctown]

it's been sixteen seconds and none of my followers are retweeting

[popsofctown]

I proposed without telegraphing it in advance. Some people fish around to ask how popular something would be before using up their one proposal on it.
N1 setup doesn't look remotely breakable due to the factional rolestop and one role per player

[popsofctown]

This game more badly needs some semblance of dayplay than it needs to get slight edges from figuring out whether inactive is for scumreads or townreads or whatever

[popsofctown]

I don't keep up with my W/L record but if I did I would probably count all replace-outs as losses and I would definitely treat all "replaced out because I anticipated a loss"es as losses
But really what does your record matter anyway
The idea of someone maintaining a record is also concerning because there's a family of strategies including but not limited to trust telling that are more effective for winning groups of games than they are for winning each game as though it's your last. But the latter is far more interesting and more fair to teammates and opponents.
IDK offtopic rant.
I'm not sure it's alignment indicative that A is saying he anticipates a loss here. He has a meta for being townread in the right places frequently and if on a rare occasion that didn't become a component of the dayplay when he was town I'd think that'd annoy him.

It's still pretty damn alignment indicative that Titus was saying she thought RC was replacing out of a loss for his record I think. She may have perceived his scum replace-out in hope plus one as being for the same reason. It only feels like too obvious a scumslip but since it is technically a statement that doesn't describe one's own alignment it becomes plausible. We can set aside the drunk modifier.
RC finished winning as scum in Any Dead Player Can Post yesterday which was concurrent so I think that counts against the slot.

I still am at, it's much scummier than rand but not an auto red flip. I'd prefer to supplement it by reading a player playing inside of the slot, but RC wasn't here all that long, Titus never actually got invested and she seems less readable when she's not invested, and welcome Creature.

[popsofctown]

• 1-shot Gladiator
  : CheekyTeeky
  Negative utility role put on a widely scumread player
  
  
• Inactive
  : Creature
  Negative utility role put on a widely scumread slot. Little bit of a bad fit given the permanence of inactive being a mismatch for a replaced slot. but eh. can't get these things perfect
  
  
• Day 5 Innocent Child
  : Nero Cain
  Many players express difficult reading Nero Cain in general, and he hasn't taken any unusual actions that push him towards the edge of his townrange or scumrange today
  
  
• Inventor
  : apthet
  Positive utility role on a widely townread slot. Between the Universal Backup and the fact that only 2 of the inventions are good there's no reason to be concerned about allowing the mafia to shoot a townread and a PR in the same shot here
  
  
• Day 3 King
  : Jingle
  Oversoul was widely townread. D3 king sounds kinda like double daykill vig in a way so it's scary for it to not be on a townread
  
  
• Macho
  : Lil Uzi Vert
  Negative utility role on a scummy player but also one who is hardly slicing the game apart with his solves so why would you be in a hurry to protect him even if you TR'ed him
  
  
• Miller
  : momo
  Both a widely townread player and a player who plays in such a fashion that we should be able to read him based on future play without relying on investigations
  
  
• Odd-Night Motion Detector
  : Gamma Emerald
  People kinda townread him I think? this role is positive utility and we lose a useful n1 investigate if this doesn't go to town, but would lose little if it was NKed between universal backup and the odd-knighting. I would put Vecna here but no proposal is perfect
  
  
• Neighbour
  : popsofctown
  it would maybe be nice to return to TRing Vecna if he could spend 48 hours overnight explaining to me why his lynchpool is so damn huge
  
  
• Neighbour
  : Vecna
  
• Timid
  : Hidden Happiness
  People keep putting this in every proposal because Hidden Happiness made a post on like page 3 saying she wasn't excited about the setup complexity and core mechanic. She then made it clear it bothered her a lot to lose access to proactive play and she was not happy with the idea of having the role, while several players, myself included, think you can just get someone else to propose what you'd want and it's whatever and wouldn't mind. It'd seem like a meme to me if Shadoweh didn't already seem to be having an unfun time this game and not giving her timid could help with that in a way that I don't see in any conflict with wincon
  
  
• Night 1 Universal Backup
  : pisskop
  One of the really wide townreads so he gets a role which in some scenarios becomes positive utility but importantly can become the special negative utility of Miller
  
  
• Vanilla
  : Iconeum
  Iconeum proposed and knew better than to ask for anything better than vanilla because a few people scumread him.
  
  
• Compulsive Quitter
  : AP

He has been pretty scummy this game and memeing casts into doubt his ability to solve. Getting this lynch might raise the question of why Titus or CT lynch was harder but having that question will be something to work with

[popsofctown]

1834 is for creature's request

[popsofctown]

oh vecna and I are both widely townread so we get positive utility roles. the combo with neighbor is getting investigative roles on later nights and putting them on one of the neighbors, then reporting clears in the neighborhood but not reporting clears in the thread. When one neighbor is NKed the other neighbor reports what all the clears are without those clears having been put at risk for NK. There's some shakiness to it including what if 1 neighbor is scum but like there's some tricks you can try to pull I guess

[popsofctown]

The nice thing about flipping a50 is I don't see him misgendering apthet this much if he shares a PT with her so it'd clear her even harder

[popsofctown]

However if I get the inventor role and change my avatar to Miu and then I get killed and then the universal backup becomes inventor role, they also need to change their avatar to the same pic of Miu, not a less equipped pic of Miu. It's in site rules.

[popsofctown]

it's more about it as an interaction as something she's complained about and he keeps doing it. SvS bussing usually doesn't have that kind of bridge burning.

it wouldn't have to be gender it could have been anything else instead

[popsofctown]

Besides, it won't change a thing for you. You and I both know that. You will try to lynch him regardless, and if given a Vig shot you're still going to shoot him.

Mate, it is not easy to quote certain stiff from Nero to call him town. That's not how it works. It's how he posts, and the general way he approaches the game that enables me to read him. In this game he clearly does not have a scum agenda. He's not being cautious or fictitious or even overly survivalistic. There's nothing that scum!Nero gains from playing the way he is playing this game.

You know what? I'm gonna go mechanical.

VOTE: against

I'll put my trust in Nero

I could bother with all the little droplets but bucket of it is 1060. It just eerily like the proposal he initially voted for was either a day5 IC bus or straight bus and his concept of how much elbow room he had is what changed rather than spontaneous reverence for "mechanics", which went unexplained.

It is a day1 4th place read for me really. What can I say I tried. I thought my proposal was just dandy. But I think AP lynch is plenty good enough as better than rand chance of red flip and keeping the game heartbeat up. Not at all a statement I would have made on page 40 or whatever

[popsofctown]

oops I forgot to deselect 1470 and 1472 when I decided to not actually pick at little things

ok I guess it is, class 1470 and 1472 are known to be proven theorems but they are being left as an exercise for the reader

I will solve 1060 for you as a sample problem

Of course 1060 bears almost no similarity to the other two problems and wouldn't help in your exercises

but i'm roleplaying a college professor not a middle school teacher so this is accurate roleplay

[popsofctown]

oh and wow that is a post I would not actually want to page top
the friendly janitor asked if my day was going well
he must have asked too soon I lied to him
why do I hurt people like that

[popsofctown]

eh sometimes I make some stupid reads. I can't read all of the people exactly right all of the time.

When I have the handicap of not being able to get my first choice lynch nor my second choice lynch preference yeah I am going to miss a 3/13 shot a lot

[popsofctown]

Ico is delaying CT redflip so CT can perform the kill without worrying about motion detection.

[popsofctown]

I don't think he would bus you, so a redflip of you clears a slot I am suspicious of, rendering this a high information flip.

I'm not a huge believer in preflip assocs and expecting to name the entire scumteam day1 so it's very reasonable to find you individually scummy.

[popsofctown]

I don't think it takes much confidence to make a shitposty speculation.

My last jillion posts have expressed displeasure with this unsatisfying compromise lynch so it shouldn't seem dissonant at all

if you want to protect scum!pops from pushing her EZ mislynch agenda by all means repropose one of the better two lynches I voted for and insist I be less picky about role assignments this time.

[popsofctown]

I replaced in for scum!RC in Hope Plus One like 3 months ago