Role Call I (Game Over)

[momo]

These roles are lame. But I guess it is setting up for future days. I want the inventor or the neighbor.

I know it's early but I really don't like this post.

If I was scum there would be 3 roles I want. King, inventor, and neighbor. I wouldn't even think about asking for King because that's blatantly scummy. But neighbor can be presented as fun and inventor as a cool gimmick. The disinterested tone isn't great either.

[momo]

How does that make me scum for wanting Neighbor? I am very good at scumhunting in neighborhoods that’s why I want it

For reference, thought it would be a power heavy normal role game, but makes sense why that wouldn’t be the case :hitoshrug:

Doubt.

This meta dive was done really quick so I could be wrong but...

I checked your wiki. Only updated through 2012 but you weren't a neighbor ever in your first year. That's fine.

So I just went through your post history. The only time in the last three years you've said the word neighbor outside of this game was in this game.

You claimed to be an informed neighbor. Saying that in your eyes, alignment was mod confirmed, banking on your so called ability to read in a neighborhood.

You were scum.

[momo]

Ohayo gozaimasu everyone! Orihime head here! I hope we have lots of fun together!

On first glance I think the roles I want most are: King or Uni back up. Neighbor seems fun but it depends on the neighbor!

Asking for King and Neighbor right after I'm pressuring Oversoul on this makes me thing ur a scumbuddy, especially if scum have daychat. Seriously strange that you request the roles I called sus earlier without even acknowledging that post.

[momo]

If we are talking about roles, I think I would want one shot gladiator. I could solve the game with that role Day 2.

[momo]

I think our main priority should be figuring out who we town and scum read. Proposals can be made by multiple people and we should take advantage of that. This creates better debate than just one person making the proposal (whoever seems towny on D1). I can't remember of the top of my head who proposed that, but it seems like a really bad idea.

Long posts aren't really my style, but I feel like there's too much of a spammy feel going and not enough substansive content, so I feel pressured into making one.

That said these are my reads.

Town Tier (in no particular order)

Almost50 - It's been a while since I have played mafia but when I did, I think I played quite a bit with a50. As far as I remember, a50 plays town and scum fairly similar, with solid scumhunting being a priority, even if it means a little busing. However, the difference tends to be the tone. While some players use fake anger as scum, a50's scum game is played much more on building relationships and being supportive. He uses the strategy of pocketing well. Town a50, on the other hand, is more prone to using saracasm as seen in this post. It is very possible that his playstyle has evolved and I will need to do a deeper meta dive if we both make it to the later stages of the game, but for now, he is a townread.

Vecna - By far the towniest player in the game, imo. I may not agree with all his reads (for example a50) but I like the approach. Honestly, I don't have hardcore meta or logic reasons for this one. It's just the way I feel.

CheekyTeeky - I get the sense that CT is building her meta so that she can be spammy and hide as both town and scum. She's clearly beeen working on it but I don't think it's indistinguishable yet. I've only had time to really look at one of her scum games (this one) but it feels like she tries a little bit more when she is scum. I think that ingrained notion that you have to appear town gets to her. Given that this is a recent game, I'm assuming much hasn't changed since then. The vibes I'm getting from that game and this one are different, and therefore she is town.

Lil Uzi Vert - He only has five posts, so this may be very premature but I think he's town. Scum wouldn't want two of the towniest players being neighbors. That means that they can't silence them both without leaving the King alive for day 3. It would allow those players to live because there would be more pressing kills. Then, when one of them is killed, the other still has access to their thoughts and can use their name to convince people. That move would be too anti-scum for scum to propose.

popsofctown - I have never played with pops but they are showing a great ability to go against what is being accepted. Going against my the reasons for me saying people requesting a role was scum, but still thinking they are scum. Calling out a50 for the Independence Day thing, calling out Vecna, and exposing what would be ideal scum strats. This is town.

Iconeum - This is a weak read and he has said some scummy things. That said, just skimming through a couple of his past games, the tone feels town. This post would probably not come from scum with daytalk. He's treating this gamestate as time for a regular, early game RVS wagon. I don't think having two teammates with daychat would result in someone playing like this. Also, when he backs up his stance with this post, it makes him feel even more town.

The people that have substantial posts, but I'm not sure about

Hidden Happiness - The tone of these posts as happy seems like a real gimmick, created on purpose to make them hard to read. I don't think I have played with either one of the heads and have honestly no idea what to expect. This is the reason I don't like hydras. When you have a grasp on the individual heads, they're fine, but it's situations like these that make meta diving (as opposed to playing with them) weak and honestly annoying. I can't read these guys. If anyone has played with them, feel free to give your thoughts. That said, I would be most comfortable giving them an inconsequential role today.

No content

Apthet - Literally one post just saying he has to go away.

Nero Cain - He has seven posts but they aren't actually substantive. Just usual early game conversation. If this continues, it may be scummy, but for now, it's nothing.

Gamma Emerald - 4 posts. For me right now, the key to getting an early game read on him is clear. His fourth post, the one saying that he will probs have a lot of mechanical questions. I have played with him but it has been a while. For people that have played with Gamma more recently, is a normally mechanic intensive or not.

The Scum Team

As the subheading suggests, this is my scumteam. Given his lack of appearance in the earlier sections, RC is in this scum team (which I'll get to later). Coupled with that and daytalk, it is clear that the scum team has a strategy going into day one. The key, imo is to look for associations and more importantly common themes. I believe that a theme of disdain/disinterest can be found in the scumteam, at least until they get certain powers. Here is my logic.

RC/Baezu hydra - At the time of me starting to write this post, I don't think Baezu has posted yet. I believe that this is because of direction from RC. RC said that at least his head will be relatively inactive. This is the first piece of deception. Knowing RC, I highly doubt that he would allow two heads in a hydra to have completely different approaches. Furthermore, he expressed disappointment in the setup. RC is known for keeping arrogance throughout his meta, both as town and scum. I think he pushed this onto his scumbuddies as well. He knows that normally, his meta required him to be a leader. The perfect WIFOM manipulation would be sitting out the beginning. That said, RC is still active he is directing the other members of the scumteam.

Sadude - This bring us to Sadude. Sadude's own meta (in I think Micro 874 and 877) indicates that as scum he puts slightly less effort as town. He tries to appear more casual. RC in scum chat directs Sadude to appear disinterested in this game. For scum, it is key to manipulate the PRs and get at least one, if not two people into good position. The hardest part is surviving the early game. The easiest way for Sadude to do this is to be active but appear low effort. The disclaimer in the beginning is very telling.

Oversoul - Finally oversoul. He opens by saying "these roles are lame." He also requested roles. On top of this, Oversoul had light buses on both RC and Sadude. Nothing substantial and nothing he needs to commit to, but they are there. This one for Sadude and this one for RC. He is right, RC is active, and he is directing this scum game.

Baezu is also normally an active player. His lack of activity shows clearly that RC is calling shots - private and at a degree of extremity he wouldn't use as town. As of right now, I think this is the scum team.

[momo]

Your win condition isn't to make momo happy it's to kill all the mafia.

If he's truly your top townread you should want him king.
I don't particularly want the gladiator ability to be on someone who's eager to use it. Gladiator days generate less information. It's only a half step away from governor where technically if you fire it very accurately it furthers the town wincon but overall you're subverting the protown mechanics of the game and it's negative utility really.

This post, is town. Especially considering that you say this even though you clarify that you think a50 is town in your next post.

Yeah I think 166 might be at least half as scummy as it is dumb so I'm not crazy about him becoming king.

I'd rather you be king

However, idk about 166 being scummy. RC may not be going for a flawless victory, but regardless of alignment he will be going for a victory. By day 5, it probs will be too late to sort him.

a50, i scumread RC. I also don't think we can afford to wait till day 5 for him to be our IC. We have to figure it out earlier.

[momo]

@momo:

1- Why do you SR RC?
2- My point was "you can SR RC all you want, but getting him lynched w/o an explicit guilty is a pain in the arse", and I see no other investigative roles on the list top use on the slot.

Baezu's silence, the connections in between my other scum reads and him. Especially paired with his normal activity, both in games and around sites. It would be a really smart move for scum RC to declare that he's going to lurk day one.

Of my 3 SRs, I would probs lynch RC last. However, if any one of those two flip scum, the ties to RC become much stronger.

Either way, RC is very hard to read. The best use of the

inactive

role, imo, would be for someone like RC. If he is town, then great. He can help us scum hunt and the incentives to lynch a player like RC would be much lower if we make him inactive. That way town RC stays alive and helps us.

If he is scum, then he can't use any abilities.

Giving RC inactive is probably the easiest decision we have to make today.

This also works out perfectly because the HH hydra is hard to read. Day 5, we get a confirmed read. Just swapping those two would make your proposal better.

[momo]

Ew, preflip associatives. Why do people do those? Especially day 1?

No one seems to see Vecna the same way as me huh. I wonder if I would read him differently with a different avatar. I hate that tv show.

I agree that pre-flip associatives are normally not that strong of a play. If you're wrong, it really messes with your reads for the game.

That said, Baezu's silence is really telling to me. RC def told him to stay quite and then post in this thread saying that he would be quite but acting as if he didn't know about Baezu. If the RC/baezu hydra is scum, which I think it is, associatives are a strong bet.

The best part is, both Oversoul (for his requesting roles) and Sadude (his meta with Micro 874 and 877) are independently scummy. If you have 3 independently scummy people, and you see associations in between them, it makes sense to think that they are scum.

[momo]

Oversoul - Finally oversoul. He opens by saying "these roles are lame." He also requested roles. On top of this, Oversoul had light buses on both RC and Sadude. Nothing substantial and nothing he needs to commit to, but they are there. This one for Sadude and this one for RC. He is right, RC is active, and he is directing this scum game.

I feel like you are incredibly off base with your reads this game if you're going to base the entire scumteam around me. You are too influenced by your own confirmation bias that I

must

be scum. Please read your own reasoning for me being scum.

"Oversoul thinks these roles are lame" Ok.
"Oversoul then ASKS for one of those lame roles" Ok.
"Therefore, Oversoul must be scum"

The only thing I can conclude from your scumread on me is that your preconceived notions about how scum would play this game are entirely wrong since I am your strongest scumread and I

know

you're wrong about that.

1. Objectively, these roles are lame. I was thinking we would get more basic things like 1-shot vigilante, tracker, roleblocker, macho cop, etc. Instead, we got a motion detector, several mechanic specific day abilities, and a slew of negative utility passive abilities. I came into this game thinking it was going to be role madness. Obviously that is not the case.
2. I chose a role that I felt like I could actually 1) have fun with, and 2) give benefit to the town. I think I am pretty good at needling people to better understand their motivations. I love neighborhoods, masons, etc. It is like a game within the game. I really do not see why scum would objectively want neighborhood when it has no bearing on actual night play (at least as far as Night 1 goes).

You seem to be holding me to

your

standard of play when it comes to these reads and what

you

would do. I very much doubt that you and I play similarly. The answers to my questions about Saudude and RC would be very helpful for me to ascertain their general motivations in this game. If Saudude has done this type of contradictory behavior, then it would help frame is motivations as not scummy. Additionally, if RC likes being scum and would try, then his lack of trying would help frame is motivation as not scummy.

Pedit:

No he is not. I thought Almost was Alchemist.

My scumreads all stand by themselves as independent. If I were to say they were based of one person, it would be RC.

"Additionally, if RC likes being scum and would try, then his lack of trying would help frame is motivation as not scummy."
THAT, ^^^, is without a doubt some terrible logic because it is based of incorrect assumptions. RC likes playing mafia. He is extremely talented at both. He does this by using his meta as an advantage. If you think a lack of posting indicates not trying, you are extremely mistaken. Both Baezu and RC are reasonably active players. The silence is definitely a strategy and it says a lot. Then this post acts like it isn't a strat. As if Baezu and RC are both playing in an atypical manner (inactive) and came to this conclusion independently without any discussion. What?

Also "contradictory behavior" in a typical early game is very common. Wagoning different players in RVS to get reactions.

[momo]

RC, the real reason I think you're scum isn't based around inactivity (though that's a contributing factor). It's just that you have literally said before that because of your meta, you have to take charge, both as town, and scum pretending to be down.

Posting from the RC account, then saying you don't want to play, it's only something I can see you doing as scum. Town you wouldn't do it to avoid being mislynched. But scum you can easily state that town you would never do it, and therefor you can't do it. Good mafia players (such as yourself) use their meta. This would be perfect scum use of meta.

I've never known you to choose to lurk just to survive.

Also, I can't find the game rn, but I distinctly remember reading one of your postgames in which you said that when you are scum, you act angry, say something is stupid or disgusting, and expect your idea to go through. That's what you're doing now.

pedit: RC, either way you're not my ideal D1 lynch, largely because of how hard it is to actually lynch someone like you. I honestly can't believe that I'm your number 1 choice for a D1 lynch either, if you are playing from a town standpoint. Why don't you tell us who else you scum read?

[momo]

You don't believe the things that you're pushing me for. You're either making stuff up because you want something that sounds better to push me for, or you're scum.

"RC, the real reason I think you're scum isn't based around inactivity (though that's a contributing factor). It's just that you have literally said before that because of your meta, you have to take charge, both as town, and scum pretending to be down.

Posting from the RC account, then saying you don't want to play, it's only something I can see you doing as scum. Town you wouldn't do it to avoid being mislynched. But scum you can easily state that town you would never do it, and therefor you can't do it. Good mafia players (such as yourself) use their meta. This would be perfect scum use of meta.

I've never known you to choose to lurk just to survive. "

Is anything in that quote inaccurate?

I'm literally using things you've said in the past to make my case.

Also, you're goal this entire day hasn't been to lynch scum. It's been to stay alive. That undeniable fact. You chose to lurk initially to stay alive. When people called that sus, instead of scum hunting, you are making a bunch of posts to counter that point just to stay alive. That's certainly not pro-town behavior. You are playing to make it to endgame. So that you can endgame the town.

[momo]

you are scum, you act angry, say something is stupid or disgusting, and expect your idea to go through. That's what you're doing now.

What stupid and disgusting thing am I supposedly saying? I'm being rather tame. I've reacted to these situations far worse in the past. I'm just over it.

I meant that you say someone else's idea is stupid or disgusting

Which is exactly what you did with my push on you.

Instead of acting like town, you're acting indignant. This is scum RC.

[momo]

I also think that giving us the Day 5 IC removes any even slight motivation for scum to not kill us immediately.

Killing a D5 IC on N1?? Over an Inventor & a Gladiator??

This. His entire plan is based on a false assumption that he would be NKd. Over inventor, gladiator, and KING if that goes to town.

[momo]

I actually want the D5 role but I'd prefer you just give it to us as opposed to banking on someone dying for no reason.

That was my suggestion. Cause I can't read this hydra for shit.

[momo]

Ok the answer is scum, not bad town. That helps me feel less bad about it at least.

@everyone you can take whatever precautions you want about my scum game, ic, whatever, but we're lynching Momo today.

We are not keeping you alive until D5.

[momo]

People have NKed me over known cops before, and won the game because they made that decision.

I actually want the D5 role but I'd prefer you just give it to us as opposed to banking on someone dying for no reason.

I mean I don't care. I literally don't care. I want Momo dead, I'm just offering whatever safeties everyone else wants against me being scum.

The RC patented raw arrogance just push it through everyone else is stupid method isn't going to work.

Also RC, I genuinely enjoy playing with you. You are a great player and it's fun watching you play. I would never lynch you just because you're you. I want to lynch you because you're scum.

[momo]

see

you act all innocent like 'hey i have this real scumread'

then there it is

It is a scumread. One that I'm confident enough in that I don't think we should keep you alive until D5 for.

Also RC, don't take this personally.

[momo]

LUV my guy, how did u write all of that in less than a minute.

Any chance I can buy your hands?

[momo]

it's personal. unless you're scum. then it's not. but even then it's still kinda personal to me, ngl.

Dude I'm town. I'm scumreading you. It's simple.

You may be town. But I think you're scum. It's a game my guy.

[momo]

you're not pushing on me honestly. that's obvious. there's really no point in discussion when you're either scum or not really playing mafia.

wdym not pushing honestly?

i've listed my reasons. they're all based on things that you've either said to me or others. they're based on your meta.

i didn't just pull this out of a hat.

[momo]

Can you stop arguing with your boyfriend, this is incredibly unproductive and if I'm understanding you you don't care what his alignment is, no one's going to lynch momo for scumreading you.

oh shit you just made me realize something

so because of a combination of being banned and before that a voluntary leave from mafia for an extended period of time, most of my games with RC come from my early days on site

back then i was super mislynchable (see my signuature) and could get pushed by scum for an easy lynch D1/D2 ... doesn't really happen anymore but...

[momo]

I think miller and vanilla should be given to universal town reads. They can essentially function as named townies and that’s pretty strong.

That's all cool and dandy, but I would like to see you give your reads so I can have an idea of your provision linking theory to practice.

the idea makes sense except the clearest TRs should be given roles that we don't want scum to get

maybe a somewhat TR gets miller

I don't understand the logic for vanilla?

is it that they won't be worth the NK for scum?

[momo]

i don't think momo is arrogant enough, as town, to talk to me the way that he is regardless of what his read on me is. he already indicated a level of respect.
no one who talks to me like he did in the post about respecting in my play should be saying stupid things like he is about his surety about me being scum.

So you're saying I'm more arrogant as scum (when I'm actively trying to convince y'all not to lynch me) than as town?

[momo]

As scum you don't have to believe the stuff that you're saying. As town, you do.

but i do believe you're scum

why are you unable to believe that people might find a normally active player lurking to survive scummy

and then coming out of lurking just to defend themselves without actually scum hunting being even scummier

[momo]

'whee i respect you enough to call it out specifically but i also believe I caught you on page 2 of a game!!!'

no.

i respect you in general

i just think that you're being suspicious this game

[momo]

because you talk about and justify your read on me like someone who feels caught for the wrong reasons, like you don't believe it but you believe the 'logic' is sound.

other than the fact that i believe it (more and more with every single one of your posts actually)

[momo]

after all, if you think that I'm scum, why are you trying to convince me that your case on me holds water?

because by arguing with you, i get a chance to present both of our cases to the town

it helps for when i want to gladiator you tmmrw

[momo]

you don't make it to tomorrow to gladiator me

Are you saying you'll NK me?

Cause I'm def not about to get D1 lynched

[momo]

also, wtf? 'gladiator me'? you can't possibly believe if you're town here that you would just gladiate me and win versus scum me, with my scumteam's support. literally never.

idt you realize this bro, but ur looking blatantly scummy to everyone else

[momo]

also, wtf? 'gladiator me'? you can't possibly believe if you're town here that you would just gladiate me and win versus scum me, with my scumteam's support. literally never.

also, given how much pressure is on you, it would make for sense for ur buddies to bus

[momo]

do you believe that town!Momo thinks that town!him is going to put me under

so much pressure

that I'm just obviously scum and scum are going to have to bus

or do you think that scum!Momo is just preemptively coming up with excuses for why all the scummy slots are going to end up voting me?

RC i said before that you're not my ideal D1 lynch because i doubt i'll be able to get you D1 lynch (or D2 gladiated for that matter)

but if u r turning this entire thread into me vs you, one of us has to go

[momo]

Does anyone actually believe any of this is an actual thought process?

1) I know RC is an amazing scum player
2) I caught Scum!RC on page 2
3) I'm going to convince Scum!RC my read on him is real
4) I'm going to gladiate RC tomorrow and get townread for it
5) I'm so strong that RC's buddies are going to have to bus him

guys momo is scum.

i didn't "catch" scum RC on page 2...i just scum read him

a couple pages into the game, even a light scum read was enough to make my top 3 scum, because very few people had content

then you absolutely overreacted, blew up when you said you were going to lurk, and i've been getting townread

so yeah, i would say my position is stronger than yours

[momo]

Would you rather he gives you the silent treat (I'm not positive, but I think you don't like to play with Wisdom)

he should be trying to convince other people that I'm scum, not me.
he's trying to back away from this engagement now that I've started hitting back. he still wants to call me scum but he doesn't actually want the 1v1.

i went to the bathroom quickly, i wouldn't call that backing away

and my posts may be addressed to you, because you're the one responding to me

but my logic is there for everyone to see and your responses are not helping you

i think my strategy for presenting information is working

[momo]

I'm willing to take the Day 5 IC and not get to play multiple day phases of the game if Momo is lynched today with us and MariaR hydra takes the universal backup.

How does that sound?

I already think momo's proposed scumteam isn't very good so I'm ok with them being ejected

so you want me ejected not because I'm scum, but because i'm not good at figuring out who's scum? that sounds dangerously like trying to lynch a townie to me.

also, y'all don't realize this, but when i posted my list, it was anything but definitive. it was me organizing my thoughts and expressing where i'd like to see the first proposals be. you know the ones we have 14 of.

i said it earlier and i said it again, proposing would be the best way to move the game forward. than you discuss, and like an rvs wagon it would gain more information.

rc took what was equivalent to an rvs reads list, blew up over it, and made me actually scum read him.

[momo]

Given that the possibility of our slot being scum has been the single largest discussion of the game so far and I don't want to play an entire game of that, I'd rather not try to create incentives for scum not to remove us from the game so let's just give us the IC, kill Momo for having a terrible scumread on me, and make MariaR hydra the universal backup because I scumread the shit out of both heads and would like to find a resolution to that issue that doesn't involve having to push a lynch on them.

I agree with this post quite a lot. Btw the reason I'm okay with momo dying isn't just reads but the way it seems they're trying to command the game, they seem to be wanting a leader position without outright calling themselves a leader. The execution of the scumteam guess feeds into this feeling.

this is actually really valid criticism

my response is that i'm trying to lynch the people that i think are scum...since nobody else is taking initiative, i am...if someone more articulate than me wanted to push someone i think could be scum, i would take a backseat

[momo]

I also think that giving us the Day 5 IC removes any even slight motivation for scum to not kill us immediately.

Killing a D5 IC on N1?? Over an Inventor & a Gladiator??

This. His entire plan is based on a false assumption that he would be NKd. Over inventor, gladiator, and KING if that goes to town.

King is a volatile role like Vigilante: just because the user is town doesn't mean the role helps town.

true, but unless the role goes to someone who is completely of in their reads, scum would want to consider NKing earlier than a D5 IC

[momo]

i think 236 essentially confirms that they're scum in the game

or scum outside of it

. that's the lynch today. again, idc where anything else goes as long as the inventor goes to town.

What does the bolded mean?

My fear is that I don’t want inactive given to someone who easily gets disengaged or is showing signs of disengagement.

Hmm.. why would this cause someone to become inactive? It just makes them a vanilla townie or a goon. Although, if your hunch is true, I doubt a goon would replace out.

Would you rather he gives you the silent treat (I'm not positive, but I think you don't like to play with Wisdom)

he should be trying to convince other people that I'm scum, not me.

I thought that was the purpose of his wall of colors. My primary issue with Momo is that I do not believe him when he says all of his scumreads were independent.

They were originally independent. Then I looked for associations in between them. You yourself agreed that sadude was kinda scummy. I had a light SR on you from D1. And my SR on RC should be clear by now.

I'll admit that out of the three, you were my first, but also the one i'm least confident in. Like I said earlier, my SR on you was the equivalent of an RVS SR.

[momo]

Sothis Stefon Styx is being replaced.

He's scum.

There was a game I played in, Access Point by FakeGod that had RC in it as scum.

I was able to read that slot very well (him, replaced by Alisae, replaced by someone else I can't remember).

He asked to be treated like a normal player, not policy. He brought up one of his previous games out of context. He got mad at the unfair treatment. And then he replaced out.

He was scum. I called it. I got NKd for it.

But eventually the slot got taken care of and town one the game.

Same thing happened here.

He's scum.

[momo]

Oh, shit! One scum lord replaced by one scum lord"ess" (so to speak)

Hello, Titus. I hope your health is getting better. Also, tell Math I miss playing with him.

Now odd we go: let's lynch TITUS.

I honestly don't know about RC's replace out, but if I was in a hydra and replaced out shouldn't the other head take over as dingle player? The fact that Baezu never posted and didn't take over is pinging more than the fact RV replaced out.

Yeah, too many reasons are piling up for this lynch.

I stand by my statement that RC is a good player. But he made clear mistakes.

[momo]

Titus replaces Sothis Stefon Styx.

Titus, I love your avatar, and it's awesome you agreed to replace so quickly.

Sorry you had to be scum.

If you could tell us what's happening in scumchat (which you obviously are checking before you post in this thread) before we lynch you, it would be much appreciated.

[momo]

He probably subbed out to preserve his won percentage.

Hold up, this confirms that RC slot was scum.

Because u only sub out to preseve the win percentage if you're about to be lynched as scum. If you're town, you can still win.

Guys Titus scum slipped. She is drunk.

[momo]

This is the second iteration. I made minor changes overall. I still haven't changed the stronger roles though.

Timid = Hidden Happiness (Shadoweh/MariaR hydra)
Vanilla = Iconeum
Inventor = popsofctown
Day 5 Innocent Child = Oversoul
Miller = apthet
Neighbour = Nero Cain
1-shot Gladiator = momo
Day 3 King = Vecna
Night 1 Universal Backup = CheekyTeeky
Neighbour = Almost50
Odd-Night Motion Detector = Gamma Emerald
Macho = Lil Uzi Vert
Inactive = Saudade
Compulsive Quitter = Sothis Stefon Styx (RadiantCowbells/Baezu hydra)

I'm all for this. You need to change the compulsive quitter to titus.

My only question is why you want to neighborize Nero? He hasn't posted much as far as I can remember. What's your logic on this one?

[momo]

Aw momo, I wanted to ask her questions about that

Unless I'm being pocketed (someone tell me if I am) I don't see scum posting this. Oversoul's recent posts have also been better. He might be a townlean now.

[momo]

Rc quits when it effects his win percentage but that's not role related

But the events leading up to it clearly mirror scum RC replace outs (see Access Point)

[momo]

My only question is why you want to neighborize Nero? He hasn't posted much as far as I can remember. What's your logic on this one?

I just think I can read Nero (and he can read me) well enough. If there are a couple who are known to have good reads on each other I am willing to give them neighbors instead (you're right about Nero not being active, but the game is still young. He

can

disappear for sometime but when he does show up he's sure to make his presence well noticed.)

cool

[momo]

I think it's time we have an official proposal. I think this one is as good as any and I'll be voting for it. Even if it doesn't pass, we need the discussion.

Official Proposal

Timid = Hidden Happiness (Shadoweh/MariaR hydra)
Vanilla = Iconeum
Inventor = popsofctown
Day 5 Innocent Child = Oversoul
Miller = apthet
Neighbour = Nero Cain
1-shot Gladiator = momo
Day 3 King = Vecna
Night 1 Universal Backup = CheekyTeeky
Neighbour = Almost50
Odd-Night Motion Detector = Gamma Emerald
Macho = Lil Uzi Vert
Inactive = Saudade
Compulsive Quitter = Titus

[momo]

VOTE: FOR

[momo]

VOTE: Against

Uh I am not in favor of basically being a hated townie in this setup. (I don't think Maria would mind actually but she's too busy packing to stop me. )

I also can't remember any time two people screaming at each other to death was actually alignment indicative of anything but two townies being stubborn as fuck. I wouldn't support a lynch on that slot at all. I see the hydra replaced out but unless RC has literally replaced out as scum about to be lynched before I'd sooner think he realized he shouldn't be playing.

The reason is, you've basically replaced oversoul as a scumread for me.

RC, who I think is scum, wanted you to be the backup. That means someone who has an excuse for not eating an early NK and would get any power the scum team wants them to if they're scum.

If RC flips scum, you are almost certainly scum.

If he doesn't, that means you have an above average change of being town and you get a legit PR tmmrw.

[momo]

Rc quits when it effects his win percentage but that's not role related

Real time image of Titus watching the fireworks.

What's your vote? I'm assuming a yes based on your previous posts, but since you're online, you might as well do something official.

[momo]

Rc quits when it effects his win percentage but that's not role related

But the events leading up to it clearly mirror scum RC replace outs (see Access Point)

Can you link this game?

This game

He wasn't about to be lynched, but he was being pressured. Things were turning against him.

Everything I said in this post can be confirmed.

[momo]

I think it's time we have an official proposal. I think this one is as good as any and I'll be voting for it. Even if it doesn't pass, we need the discussion.

Official Proposal

Timid = Hidden Happiness (Shadoweh/MariaR hydra)
Vanilla = Iconeum
Inventor = popsofctown
Day 5 Innocent Child = Oversoul
Miller = apthet
Neighbour = Nero Cain
1-shot Gladiator = momo
Day 3 King = Vecna
Night 1 Universal Backup = CheekyTeeky
Neighbour = Almost50
Odd-Night Motion Detector = Gamma Emerald
Macho = Lil Uzi Vert
Inactive = Saudade
Compulsive Quitter = Titus

I don't agree with CheekyTeeky being backup. I think Almost should get that role. I also still want the neighbor role, but if Nero is going to have the other one I will pass.

I agree with you on almost being an idea backup. That said, at least one of the neighbors should be a strong tr and idk if cheeky fits that description. She's town, but idk how strong.

The problem with giving you neighbor means that nero would become Day 5 IC. a50 says he can read nero. And given your D1, I would say that you are one of the few viable options for D5 IC that I actually see making it to D5 with that role.

[momo]

The reason is, you've basically replaced oversoul as a scumread for me.

RC, who I think is scum, wanted you to be the backup. That means someone who has an excuse for not eating an early NK and would get any power the scum team wants them to if they're scum.

If RC flips scum, you are almost certainly scum.

If he doesn't, that means you have an above average change of being town and you get a legit PR tmmrw.

That is a whole ass jank reason for doing this. You're basically proposing to neuter me forever but tomorrow if you're WRONG you'll give me an apology gift. Do you not think Timid is as crippling as I think it is or something? This is ignoring what I think of you thinking I'm scum because RC didn't hate me..

Wait did RC replacing out as scum about to get lynched actually happen

Timid truly isn't terrible though. Like you can't propose but proposals are discussed unofficially beforehand. You can make one, convince even one person, and it gets put up officially. And if you can't convince one person, it wouldn't have passed in the first place.

Also giving people a role because you like them isn't legit. You give them roles to further your wincon (town or scum). If he's scum, the role he gives you furthers his wincon if you are scum. If he's town, that means he thought you were town.

[momo]

I think it's time we have an official proposal. I think this one is as good as any and I'll be voting for it. Even if it doesn't pass, we need the discussion.

Official Proposal

Timid = Hidden Happiness (Shadoweh/MariaR hydra)
Vanilla = Iconeum
Inventor = popsofctown
Day 5 Innocent Child = Oversoul
Miller = apthet
Neighbour = Nero Cain
1-shot Gladiator = momo
Day 3 King = Vecna
Night 1 Universal Backup = CheekyTeeky
Neighbour = Almost50
Odd-Night Motion Detector = Gamma Emerald
Macho = Lil Uzi Vert
Inactive = Saudade
Compulsive Quitter = Titus

I don't agree with CheekyTeeky being backup. I think Almost should get that role. I also still want the neighbor role, but if Nero is going to have the other one I will pass.

I agree with you on almost being an idea backup. That said, at least one of the neighbors should be a strong tr and idk if cheeky fits that description. She's town, but idk how strong.

The problem with giving you neighbor means that nero would become Day 5 IC. a50 says he can read nero. And given your D1, I would say that you are one of the few viable options for D5 IC that I actually see making it to D5 with that role.

If that is the case, would you really want Cheeky then becoming one of the few good roles that we have? I actually agree with reasoning for the Innocent Child role, it is just actually not a fun role. I was an innocent child once and everyone ignored me. And I still made it to LyLo. I feel like that is going to happen again.

Ignoring an IC is literally the stupidest decision you can make in a mafia game. I won't do that for sure.

It isn't fun tbh, but since you're basically guaranteed to not be lynched until D5, you'll def get some other roles.

As for Cheeky getting backup, this is an excellent opportunity to sort her. I don't want to say too much because then scum will easily be able to WIFOM my logic, but I think Cheeky is town. This can confirm it. Calculated risk.

[momo]

This is the second iteration. I made minor changes overall. I still haven't changed the stronger roles though.

Timid = Hidden Happiness (Shadoweh/MariaR hydra)
Vanilla = Iconeum
Inventor = popsofctown
Day 5 Innocent Child = Oversoul
Miller = apthet
Neighbour = Nero Cain
1-shot Gladiator = momo
Day 3 King = Vecna
Night 1 Universal Backup = CheekyTeeky
Neighbour = Almost50
Odd-Night Motion Detector = Gamma Emerald
Macho = Lil Uzi Vert
Inactive = Saudade
Compulsive Quitter = Sothis Stefon Styx (RadiantCowbells/Baezu hydra)

Timid = Lil Uzi Vert?
Vanilla = Oversoul
Inventor = ?
Day 5 Innocent Child = CheekyTeeky
Miller = Momo
Neighbour = ?
1-shot Gladiator = popsofctown
Day 3 King = ?
Night 1 Universal Backup = Hidden Happiness
Neighbour = Vecna
Odd-Night Motion Detector = apthet
Macho = Gamma Emerald
Inactive = Saudade
Compulsive Quitter = Sothis Stefon Styx

This is what I have so far.

If RC is scum, then HH is likely scum.

That means giving HH universal backup results in us allowing scum to choose which power they want.

[momo]

it makes you unable to post for the rest of the game.

What the fuck no

VOTE: against

Punkass cow moomoo go eat grass

If you took the time to read the opening post, you would that this is not what inactive does.

[momo]

If we are talking about roles, I think I would want one shot gladiator. I could solve the game with that role Day 2.

how?

This was kind of a joke just to get me a fun role but it was based in truth to.

It starts with the D1 lynch and the D1 NK. Hard busing early game is rare, and shifts in tone are common but can be highly indicative of alignment. The RC flip tells us a lot. If scum we can build associations. I highly doubt that he is town, but if he is, that tells us a lot too. (Don't want to get into this too much rn so that the scum team can't manipulate the NK into making us think one way).

Vecna is right when he says giving me gladiator can get me lynched. But it's only a one shot ability so the risk is only in the early game. If RC flips scum and I'm NKd N1, the town knows to go after HH. If RC flips town and I'm NK'd N1, chances are that the other reads that I have presented to the town are off too. That said, this could lead to some WIFOM shenanigans from scum, and it will be up to the remaining town to figure out what happened.

As for the gladiator ability, if RC flips scum, I use it first thing tmmrw if I'm alive. This gets us the HH lynch and I agree to take a weaker role tmmrw, which as Vecna said, makes Night Killing me a harder decision. If I die and RC's scum, HH gets lynched anyway.

If I'm alive and RC flips town, my scum reads become much less favorable to the town, and my position weakens considerably. I can use the gladiator to reach a decision that we likely wouldn't otherwise. The fact of the matter is, if RC flips town, then scum is likely being townread rn. (I'm well aware that this could include me).

If I die and RC flips town, when the town sees my townflip, the obvious conclusion becomes that scum support my lynch on RC. This means that the scum are well placed (as confirmed by my TR) and viewing people's interactions with me can help y'all determine who supported me into lynching RC early, and which of those people are scum.

After that, solving the game becomes much easier.

(Note that I have included all 4 possibilities of me with gladiator [alive/dead X RC town/RC scum]).

[momo]

Theme games aint competitive but a chill lounge so giving me the mute role is out of the question for me

Where have you gotten this impression from?

its what I decided for myself

This is ultimately an opinion but as someone who is planning to play exclusively themes for the foreseeable future, games with special mechanics can be very competitive and offer and a different level of analysis than normal mafia.

But it's whatever. Your choice how you play.

[momo]

There’s nothing I’m terribly afraid of scum having there Momo.

what does this mean? like i have no idea what you're saying?

[momo]

There’s nothing I’m terribly afraid of scum having there Momo.

I think he's talking about the roles,
dont be silly momo

Then I wouldn't want to give scum inventor cause they can activate hero and make us lynch someone else when we have identified them.

i don't want to give scum gladiator because that means they are town read and can force a mislynch.

i don't want scum to get king because d3 PRs will probs be nice and scum will take the best ones.

and i want at least one TR in the neighborhood to help us get reads.

and i don't want scum to get d5 IC because then we will be pressured to keep them alive that long.

[momo]

Welcome to the game apthet. My thoughts on this post in

yellow.

Early on for me Saudade is a scumread. I think he falls neatly into the archetype of confident, relaxed scum who wants to get through the early game smoothly and position himself well. 71 seems kind of all-around not a good post. I don't like the way he presented his thought (the shower thing seems extraneous in the way the scum would like people to think they're engaging with the game) nor do I like the thought itself (the first thing I did was think "what role would my original role synergize with the most" and I think that anyone who isn't vanilla would also think of that).

This is good analysis. Many ppl in game are SRing Saudude rn but I don't think this reasoning has been brought up before. The broadness of this post made me think of it as shaky and it's good to see someone else articulating that.

I don't really know what to make of Vecna. That statement about "let's just let people do what they want, it makes for a more interesting game" seems like a town sentiment but I don't really see why town would feel motivated to type that out and press Submit. My heart is telling me that this is a town thing to say though.

More on this later.

Here's a new strategy: Let's all in to games we know we won't play. Like, if you're on a holiday. or if you have exams, or you have a new job.. you're wedding is within a week.. etc.

I'm guessing you're not American, then.

people have already said this

170 is like, moving unusually rapidly into WIFOM it feels like. Reads to me like a bit of an overreaction.

the referencing another game and shrugging it of annoyed me too...i prefer if town engages with each other

If apthet is going to take Friday off from work and combine the weekend into a 5 day vacation I'm definitely with you, though, I missed Pokémon Ruby Mafia because I knew I had a 1 week vacation coming up.

You're in luck. I'm one of three people in my office right now.

momo's big list in 187 is a good way to anchor my thoughts. First of all, good effort. Regardless of momo's alignment I think he makes a lot of intelligent points. One thing I do like that his strongest townread on Vecna is just a shrug as far as justification goes. It feels right to me and something that scum faking a readslist would not easily think of doing.
Other things...

This right here is my biggest problem with you so far. You say that me giving Vecna a TR from my gut is a very towny thing to do, but in the same post you did the same thing. This seems like you're trying to draw a parallel and portray yourself as town. This is a red flag imo.

• Almost50 is leaning slightly scum for me at this point. Good to know about the tone meta thing, though. momo I'd appreciate if you could link a few games that made you think this (also serving the dual purpose of holding you accountable to these claims).
  
• I like his justification for the Iconeum read.
  
• Lil Uzi Vert is a nullread for me. I'm not sold on the neighbors being town as too anti-scum for scum to propose. Would need to see more from him.
  
• I don't know what to make of RC. RC, the game I played with you, you were far more engaged as town even when mentioning that you were probably going to get nightkilled and whatnot, and its weird to see you sort of prematurely turn away from this game for the same reason. Why is this game different for you?
  
• I don't agree with the Oversoul read but I don't necessarily have any reasons to think he's town. I have no experience with him but my intuition tells me he is kind of a person who has a naturally scummy tone.
  
  I've come around to switching my read on him later in this game.
  
  
• I'm with you on Saudade though.
  
• Also, I'm a she.

I don't like the way popsofctown shuts down the preflip associatives in 194. I think it fits with the archetype of scum that is focused on seeming to be rational, picking holes in arguments and lines of questioning here and there to look helpful. I also think that momo's theory is the focal point of the game at this point and his only response is to shut it down.

206 reads as a post I would make in his situation as town.

It seems like momo and RC have some kind of history and that's informing this argument? RC feels really different from the game I played with him. I get the sense he feels very emotionally different about this game and I feel like there are layers to peel back: my brain says momo is on the townier side of the argument but I feel like I can't commit to that. In any case, that back and forth was vaguely unpleasant to read.

This is what surprised me too, largely because I don't have any history with RC. Like I don't know him on a personal level. Rn, my theory is that he made one mistake (choosing to lurk and manipulating his meta), got called out on it, and it snowballed from there.

I already think momo's proposed scumteam isn't very good so I'm ok with them being ejected

What. This statement is ridiculous. Bless your heart.

again something people have already said

Rc quits when it effects his win percentage but that's not role related

What.

This sounds to me like a serious accusation to bring into a game. If this is true that is despicable and possibly a trust tell. Why did you replace in knowing this? Why the hell is this an accusation you're making in public and not with the game mod? Can anyone back this up? Does callforjudgement need to be involved?

this is a legitamate concern...idk, i think he's reading the game so he'll probably know if he wants to take action...but just in case

@mod^^^....if vecna can find his game this has happened to him, kinda happened once in a game i replaced into, and might have happened here, but we could be wrong...

Also, Vecna's posts on page 15 all feel very good.

honestly, i'm not very sure yet how i read you...scummy elements are there, but so are town....speaking of, this made me think about something

[momo]

I actually really like pops reasoning for voting against?

What would you change?

[momo]

A50 slot still seems town I'm kinda ok with A50 deep wolfing me.

This is my thought process exactly...there's a chance a50 is scum (a few good reasons actually) but i just don't feel it rn

[momo]

While I do not need my proposal to be the final one, I would greatly prefer it to what is being proposed rn.

Giving the gladiator role to someone like Cheeky is highly sus imo. The gladiator will basically decide the D2 lynch. If it falls into scum hands, they can basically garuntee a mislynch. They chose someone that is scummy, say that they scumread this person, and think that this is the way that town needs to go.

Also, I doubt scum is going to kill anyone (me or otherwise) because of their roles because there is a backup. The kill will be based on how people have been playing.

The three most essential roles are Gladiator, King, and Backup. All three of those roles need to be strong TRs. As someone who is widely townread, (and knows that I myself am of course town), to me it makes sense to give me one of these roles. I'm aware that this may sound blatantly scummy to some people, but honestly, it's fact. Scum have daychat. If they want me dead, I'm gone anyways.

[momo]

While I do not need my proposal to be the final one, I would greatly prefer it to what is being proposed rn.

Giving the gladiator role to someone like Cheeky is highly sus imo. The gladiator will basically decide the D2 lynch. If it falls into scum hands, they can basically garuntee a mislynch. They chose someone that is scummy, say that they scumread this person, and think that this is the way that town needs to go.

Also, I doubt scum is going to kill anyone (me or otherwise) because of their roles because there is a backup. The kill will be based on how people have been playing.

The three most essential roles are Gladiator, King, and Backup. All three of those roles need to be strong TRs. As someone who is widely townread, (and knows that I myself am of course town), to me it makes sense to give me one of these roles. I'm aware that this may sound blatantly scummy to some people, but honestly, it's fact. Scum have daychat. If they want me dead, I'm gone anyways.

[momo]

I don't trust pops enough to give them UB

Hmm... why? And what would you give him?

pedit:

Why not Vert? I have Cheeky as scumlean and trapping a potential scum with a Gladiator seems like a really good idea.

I feel like their post about "letting the perfect get in the way of the good" was rather shady. I was abstaining for similar reason, mostly to collect info to determine if I should vote for as I did like some things but other I didn't like or understand.

And I agree a scummy person is an okay choice for Gladiator.

I disagree, completely.

For town, the path if Titus (RC) flips scum is clear, lynch Hidden Happiness.

However, a scummy gladiator could force a decision in between themselves and another scummy person. If we lynch the declared, the fact remains that we are set back a day.

Or we could lynch the other person.

This leaves two paths. We lynch the declarer.

Or the other person flips scum.
And the declared could have been busing and is left with a presumption of innocence throughout the game.

Gladiator absolutely needs to go to a townread slot.

Seriously, there are like three relevant roles that are really important to go town (king, gladiator, backup). 4 if you count one of the neighbor slots.

There is no reason to give one of these slots to someone you aren't townleaning/ have a townread on. There have been enough active people in this game to fill the important roles, the roles that control the action of the town, with towny people.

To suggest a need to do otherwise is blatantly misguided and not optimal play for the town wincon.

There are more towny players than important roles. Therefore, towny players should be left in charge of the important roles.

[momo]

Who are your top 3 town reads momo?

Pops, vecna, and you

[momo]

how about we generate consensus that gladiator is an antitown role and that actually using the shot is a scumclaim
and just give it to one of the 80% of the playerbase that doesn't do stuff like fake guilty results as town and lolhammer before the claim in opens.

I could get behind this. If u can’t convince the town, u shouldn’t be forcing their hand anyways.

[momo]

Here are the roles you get to allocate for Day 1! Each role must be given to one player, and each player must get a role.

Day 1 Role Call

• 1-shot Gladiator
  (
  Day
  ): Once in the game, during the Day when no proposal is being voted on, you may challenge a player via bold post in the game thread ("
  Challenge:

  player
  "). All proposals that day are invalid unless they give the Compulsive Quitter role either to you, or to the player you challenged.
  
• Inactive
  (
  Passive
  ): For the rest of the game, proposals that give you a
  Day
  or
  Night
  action are invalid.
  
• Day 5 Innocent Child
  (
  Passive
  ): If you are Town-aligned, your alignment will be publicly revealed at the start of Day 5.
  
• Inventor
  (
  Night
  ): Once each on four Nights in the game, you may grant a new night action to a player in the game (other than yourself). Each of these actions may be given once:
  
  Spoiler: Inventions

  • 1-shot Bodyguard
    (
    Night
    ,
    Protective
    ): Once in the game at Night, choose a player other than yourself. Any
    Eliminate
    actions aimed at that player will be deflected onto you.
    
  • 1-shot Friendly Neighbour
    (
    Night
    ): Once in the game at Night, choose a player other than yourself. If you are Town-aligned, the moderator will confirm that fact to the chosen player. (If you use this ability when not Town-aligned, it acts as a Visitor, i.e. it targets that player but has no further effect.)
    
  • 1-shot Activated Hero
    (
    Night
    ): Once in the game at Night, you may activate this role. On the following Day only, if an accepted proposal would give you the Compulsive Quitter role, you swap places in that proposal with the player who proposed it (so they end up with the Compulsive Quitter role, and you take the role they gave themself).
    
  • 1-shot Announcing Mailman
    (
    Night
    ): Once in the game at Night, you may send the moderator a message, who will forward it on to a player of your choice. The message will be marked as having come from a Mailman, but the moderator will not confirm who sent it (until after the game).
• Day 3 King
  (
  Passive
  ): On Day 3, no other player will be able to propose; as the last remaining player with a proposal, your proposal will therefore be accepted automatically, without voting.
  
• Macho
  (
  Passive
  ):
  Protective
  roles will fail when used on you.
  
• Miller
  (
  Passive
  ): All other roles will interact with you as though you were Scum, regardless of your actual alignment.
  
• Odd-Night Motion Detector
  (
  Night
  ): Once on each odd-numbered night, you may choose a player, and will learn whether or not there was motion involving that player that night. A player has motion involving them if they use a
  Night
  action, or if a
  Night
  action is used on them, or both.
  
• Neighbour
  (
  Passive
  ): You will gain access to read and post in the Neighbour private topic, and may use it to discuss the game with the other players there.
  
• Neighbour
  (
  Passive
  ): You will gain access to read and post in the Neighbour private topic, and may use it to discuss the game with the other players there.
  
• Timid
  (
  Passive
  ): You cannot make proposals.
  
• Night 1 Universal Backup
  (
  Passive
  ): At the end of Night 1, you will automatically gain the role of the player who was eliminated Night 1.
  
• Vanilla
  (
  Passive
  ): This role doesn't do anything.
  
• Compulsive Quitter
  (
  Twilight
  ): You immediately leave the game and are eliminated.

Game status

There is no active proposal.
There have been no previous proposals.

Proposal available

(14): Hidden Happiness, Iconeum, popsofctown, Oversoul, apthet, Nero Cain, momo, Vecna, CheekyTeeky, Almost50. Gamma Emerald. Lil Uzi Vert, Saudade, Sothis Stefon Styx

Proposal unavailable

(0):

nobody

To end day with a particular role assignment, one player must propose it, and 8 players vote for it.
Deadline is currently 00:05 UTC on Friday 12 July (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2019-07-12 00:05:00)

). It will be extended when a proposal is made.

Gladiator - Gamma Emerald
Inactive - Saudude
D5 IC - Almost50
Inventor - Iconeum
D3 King - popsofctown
Macho - CheekyTeeky
Miller - Vecna
Odd Night Motion Detector - apthet
Neighbor - Lil Uzi Vert
Neighbor- momo
Timid - Hidden Happiness
N1 Universal Backup - Nero Cain
Vanilla - Oversoul
Compulsive Quitter - Titus

[momo]

If i could make a proposal now, that ^^^ would be it.

Thoughts?

[momo]

You can always reinvent yourself as scum and you always need to be doing stuff that people won't point to recent scum experiences and be like HEY HE DID THAT AS SCUM.

That said I went undefeated as scum in 2018 while only actually trying in one game and pretty much just lurking the rest of them so you can get away with that even.

Rolling scum is like pressing the easy button

That’s RC in a mafia discussion thread in January. He is def scum.

[momo]

As a general guideline for how we go about this:

Id propose that people that usually get killed off early due to great gamesolving skills get the low impact or negative utility roles, to balance effectiveness of scum nightkills. No doubt thisll result in quite some discussion, which is exactly what the doctor ordered.

the main interesting ones that dont appear that interesting is what well do with the passives. Miller, VT, useless person, etc.

we should just turn this into a monarchy and make me the permanent king.

wed ptobably loose badly, but id have fun

I have an off feeling about a50.
His posts really feel to me like hes trying to immitate his towngame, but it feels different from what im used, slightly less genuine

I have an off feeling about a50.
His posts really feel to me like hes trying to immitate his towngame, but it feels different from what im used, slightly less genuine

like, 152 and 153 dont really feel like things hed nornally get irritated over?

159 isnt really something youd make a surprised post about?

Feels a bit like just grasping for stuff to comment on.

Ill see myself out

Found the slot that's gonna be my "pain in the neck" all game. The last game it was Alchemist, so I hope you'll have the same courtesy as him and apologize post game.

For now, carry on..

yikes

I'm getting at that a difficult to read player seems like the best fit for the IC role.

That would be RC (The SSS hydra) then. They're hard to lynch without a hard guilty, yet everybody wants to lynch them from the word go anyway.

If the RC hydra is scum, theyll probably try for a flawless victory anyway, which means day5 is too late of a sorting for the slot.

Bad allocation there id say.

This is a terrible post. Why are you trying to appeal to fear like this? People talk up RC's reputation a lot but suggesting he can protect all of his partners with 100% reliability is flat absurd.

This is not me appealing to fear. Day5 is too late to sort a slot like RC, and if hes town scum will likely jave killes him by then. So IC is wasted there. You can disagree all you like, but the IC is much better used on a person more likely to survive that.

Oversoul - Finally oversoul. He opens by saying "these roles are lame." He also requested roles. On top of this, Oversoul had light buses on both RC and Sadude. Nothing substantial and nothing he needs to commit to, but they are there. This one for Sadude and this one for RC. He is right, RC is active, and he is directing this scum game.

I feel like you are incredibly off base with your reads this game if you're going to base the entire scumteam around me. You are too influenced by your own confirmation bias that I

must

be scum. Please read your own reasoning for me being scum.

"Oversoul thinks these roles are lame" Ok.
"Oversoul then ASKS for one of those lame roles" Ok.
"Therefore, Oversoul must be scum"

The only thing I can conclude from your scumread on me is that your preconceived notions about how scum would play this game are entirely wrong since I am your strongest scumread and I

know

you're wrong about that.

1. Objectively, these roles are lame. I was thinking we would get more basic things like 1-shot vigilante, tracker, roleblocker, macho cop, etc. Instead, we got a motion detector, several mechanic specific day abilities, and a slew of negative utility passive abilities. I came into this game thinking it was going to be role madness. Obviously that is not the case.
2. I chose a role that I felt like I could actually 1) have fun with, and 2) give benefit to the town. I think I am pretty good at needling people to better understand their motivations. I love neighborhoods, masons, etc. It is like a game within the game. I really do not see why scum would objectively want neighborhood when it has no bearing on actual night play (at least as far as Night 1 goes).

You seem to be holding me to

your

standard of play when it comes to these reads and what

you

would do. I very much doubt that you and I play similarly. The answers to my questions about Saudude and RC would be very helpful for me to ascertain their general motivations in this game. If Saudude has done this type of contradictory behavior, then it would help frame is motivations as not scummy. Additionally, if RC likes being scum and would try, then his lack of trying would help frame is motivation as not scummy.

Pedit:

No he is not. I thought Almost was Alchemist.

This feels like a very honest town-post to me.

Vecna, do you have experience playing with Gamma Emerald?

Also, I do, but its been really hit or miss for me to read his alignment. I used to be able to catch him fairly easily as scum, but he changed up his game and it has become a lot harder for me to tell his alignment.

And when Titus replaces into a scum-slot it usually becomes apparent really quickly. Regardless, I agreed with most of Momo's posts on RC. Its been so long since I saw an RC towngame that I probably dont even remember what that looks like though.

All of these posts struck as me town because of context (originality), nuance, and shifting but well maintained opinions (thought process seems reasonable)

Idk vecna but given that he has been around for a few years, I’m assuming that he wouldn’t be afraid to bus as scum. So him taking against the grain reads feels town.

Also most ppl, as scum, put more thought into posts then as town. Much less open. This leaks into their posts. The tone feels very genuine and I like that.

[momo]

Just distribute prs to the weak players and watch scum forced to either keep PRs or strong town players alive

Guys, as long as the universal backup is a town slot, scum can't kill N1 to get rid of a PR.

Scum is just going to kill who is reading them the best. It's not that complicated Saudude.

They can't get rid of a PR.

[momo]

Just distribute prs to the weak players and watch scum forced to either keep PRs or strong town players alive

Guys, as long as the universal backup is a town slot, scum can't kill N1 to get rid of a PR.

Scum is just going to kill who is reading them the best. It's not that complicated Saudude.

They can't get rid of a PR.

I made this clear in post 530.

[momo]

Catch-ups aren't necessarily alignment indicative, but they are an easy way for scum to pretend to be town. So these are my thoughts on Cheeky's catcup.

I think our main priority should be figuring out who we town and scum read.

Holy crap nice post.

What? How? Why? This post wasn't original (I'm pretty sure someone had already said something similar earlier in the game) and I just repeated the sentiment because I thought it was a good idea. Scum could have just as easily made this post. It was one line and barely alignment indicative.

I'd rather you be king

No, thanks. I mean, I'm much obliged, but that's a BIG responsibility that I'd rather give to someone who has both good reads and a strong personality. (My reads can vary from game to game, but a town leader I know I am not)

P-edit: It took me some time to read that post, but it confirms my read on momo (and why I wanted him to be King initially). Thanks for being a townie, momo

Guys shouldn't the strong PRs go to people we want NK'd? Rather than top townreads?

As has been explained multiple times already. No. As long as the backup is a TR, this is irrelevant.

Given that the possibility of our slot being scum has been the single largest discussion of the game so far and I don't want to play an entire game of that, I'd rather not try to create incentives for scum not to remove us from the game so let's just give us the IC, kill Momo for having a terrible scumread on me, and make MariaR hydra the universal backup because I scumread the shit out of both heads and would like to find a resolution to that issue that doesn't involve having to push a lynch on them.

No.

NAI post I guess. But this is why I don't like catchup posts. You're contributing to a conversation that the entire game has moved on for. This could easily just be town behind, or scum speaking on irrelevant topics hoping to gain towncred.

My guts says Cheeky should get the IC role.

Why?

Scum are gonna try to make quick work of whoever they feel they can push easily, and I don’t think we have the luxury to wait around for someone to be confirmed town in a game like this. I think giving it someone who is unlikely to be lynched or night killed is much more optimal. It could force scum to kill a potential endgame option earlier then they would like to.

I don’t see you as lynch bait and I don’t see you as a high priority night kill. What I can see however is a world in which scum may leave you alive because you’ve been pocketed or just pose no threat to them. You’re pretty solid as town though and I think scum don’t want to deal with a Cheeky that’s going to be taken out of the lynch pool late game.

Uh.. this is so contradictory I'm like wtf.

This post is just WIFOM. Cheeky is turning down IC so she must be town. But scum Cheeky would have known this and could have done it to appear town....So on and so forth.

So you want me to be killed later because I'm not a threat? There's no logic here.

A50 why aren't you commenting on something more useful?

Town.

What? Changing the subject when you're getting pressured is not town.

is it that they won't be worth the NK for scum?

Yes. Vanilla, Timid & Inactive are all low impact roles so unlikely to be NK'd. Unfortunately they are also so low impact they should not be given to the stronger town players.

I'll take one of these.

WIFOM again. Though I can't think of a good reason someone town would specifically ask for one of these roles. Feeling like WIFOM from a scum perspective but idk.

Given that the possibility of our slot being scum has been the single largest discussion of the game so far and I don't want to play an entire game of that, I'd rather not try to create incentives for scum not to remove us from the game so let's just give us the IC, kill Momo for having a terrible scumread on me, and make MariaR hydra the universal backup because I scumread the shit out of both heads and would like to find a resolution to that issue that doesn't involve having to push a lynch on them.

I agree with this post quite a lot. Btw the reason I'm okay with momo dying isn't just reads but the way it seems they're trying to command the game, they seem to be wanting a leader position without outright calling themselves a leader. The execution of the scumteam guess feeds into this feeling.

What...

Even though this is a thing, CT said earlier in her catchup that she thought the slot was town. Could be a light bus but still supporting.

this is actually really valid criticism

my response is that i'm trying to lynch the people that i think are scum...since nobody else is taking initiative, i am...if someone more articulate than me wanted to push someone i think could be scum, i would take a backseat

I feel like this post is articulatist. :/

Sothis Stefon Styx is being replaced.

WTF!!

I thought that was the purpose of his wall of colors. My primary issue with Momo is that I do not believe him when he says all of his scumreads were independent.

You're so scummy it's making me cringe.

There's nothing about this post that is particularly scummy. Oversoul thought I was lying and called me out on it. This and the earlier post about me being town for one of the least alignment indicative things I said makes me feel like I'm being pocketed.

I'd rather the neighborhood go to a townread player or at least someone who I think would use it. There's scenarios where you want to communicate night action results only in the neighborhood so an all town neighborhood can be good and NC is pretty null to me so far.

I'm actually not a hard read it's just that most players lack familiarity with me or are just downright horrible.

Yeah it's quite obvious you're scum here mate.

Why? This is not obvious at all.

Do you feel like asking me things when I'm not around is good fake/scumhunting? b/c it seems a bit manipulative to me.

Better but I'm still not sold. Scumbutt.

Cheeky has specifically used the word scumbutt as both town and scum but I think she uses it more as scum then town. Would need to search her posts to confirm though.

y?

Strong town reads should receive negative utility roles or useless roles to discourage scum from killing them.

Gross. How the eff is Nero strong town?

Why wouldn't he be. He is scumhunting, challenging people that are being generally townread, bring new aspects to the conversation.

Ok I'm going to stop posting before I take up pages on my own.

A50 why aren't you commenting on something more useful?

Town.

yeah, id like some explenation here

Sorry you don't get one. Besides, once titus stops being a drunky I'd like to see some content from her.

Seriously. It feels like ur trying to keep a scumbuddy alive.

Titus/Hidden Happiness/CheekyTeeky scum team?

I think I just solved this game D1. GG guys. If any of you are feeling particularly generous, you know where to find the scummy nomination thread

[momo]

not like its a new thought momo, but yeah it does look like 3/4 in RC/Hh/CT/GE

That's why I added at the end of my post.

[momo]

not like its a new thought momo, but yeah it does look like 3/4 in RC/Hh/CT/GE

Knowing that Vecna, if we reject the current proposal, would you consider proposing this one:
Gladiator - Gamma Emerald
Inactive - Saudude
D5 IC - Almost50
Inventor - Iconeum
D3 King - popsofctown
Macho - CheekyTeeky
Miller - Vecna
Odd Night Motion Detector - apthet
Neighbor - Lil Uzi Vert
Neighbor- momo
Timid - Hidden Happiness
N1 Universal Backup - Nero Cain
Vanilla - Oversoul
Compulsive Quitter - Titus

Weaker roles go to the suspected scum. Greater chance of passing cause more ppl are likely to be happy with it.

[momo]

I feel like Day5 IC is almost wasted on... almost.

Yeah. Swap GE and Almost and I'd vote to pass that

Sure....
However, that would mean that if we lynch Titus/HH/CT and the game isn't over yet, our next lynch is likely A50 instead of Gamma.

Making likely lynch order Titus/HH/CT/a50/GE

By making a50 IC likely lynch order is
Titus/HH/CT/a50/GE

Obviously this is subject to change and heavily dependent to Titus flipping scum.

Is that the path we want to take.

Because rn, reading the game, I'm pretty sure of those five people, 3 are scum.

If only 2 out of those 5 are scum, D6 becomes MyLo.

Thoughts?

[momo]

My thoughts is that planning out the whole game on day 1 and trying to win a 6 day mafia game with 1 game of dayplay instead of 6 days of dayplay is absurdly bad play

big facts

i get ahead of myself sometimes

just gotta wait for the rc flip and go from there

[momo]

My gut TRs are against this but I am ok with my role.

Deliberately stalling on voting.

Why are you okay with this proposal?

My thought exactly.

There's no way town endorses their own lynch.

The only possible logic is scum trying to look town.

[momo]

Am I misunderstanding compulsive quitter?

compulsive quitter = lynch

[momo]

The above series of posts from Titus wins the fakest shit I've seen in a while award.

Does she seriously not understand what a lynch is, not understand her position in the game (it's only been 20 something pages, you can read), or is she hoping to stall the vote to cause another lynch?

[momo]

Momo what's your Vecna read?

Who are your top 3 town reads momo?

Pops, vecna, and you

As a general guideline for how we go about this:

Id propose that people that usually get killed off early due to great gamesolving skills get the low impact or negative utility roles, to balance effectiveness of scum nightkills. No doubt thisll result in quite some discussion, which is exactly what the doctor ordered.

the main interesting ones that dont appear that interesting is what well do with the passives. Miller, VT, useless person, etc.

we should just turn this into a monarchy and make me the permanent king.

wed ptobably loose badly, but id have fun

I have an off feeling about a50.
His posts really feel to me like hes trying to immitate his towngame, but it feels different from what im used, slightly less genuine

I have an off feeling about a50.
His posts really feel to me like hes trying to immitate his towngame, but it feels different from what im used, slightly less genuine

like, 152 and 153 dont really feel like things hed nornally get irritated over?

159 isnt really something youd make a surprised post about?

Feels a bit like just grasping for stuff to comment on.

Ill see myself out

Found the slot that's gonna be my "pain in the neck" all game. The last game it was Alchemist, so I hope you'll have the same courtesy as him and apologize post game.

For now, carry on..

yikes

I'm getting at that a difficult to read player seems like the best fit for the IC role.

That would be RC (The SSS hydra) then. They're hard to lynch without a hard guilty, yet everybody wants to lynch them from the word go anyway.

If the RC hydra is scum, theyll probably try for a flawless victory anyway, which means day5 is too late of a sorting for the slot.

Bad allocation there id say.

This is a terrible post. Why are you trying to appeal to fear like this? People talk up RC's reputation a lot but suggesting he can protect all of his partners with 100% reliability is flat absurd.

This is not me appealing to fear. Day5 is too late to sort a slot like RC, and if hes town scum will likely jave killes him by then. So IC is wasted there. You can disagree all you like, but the IC is much better used on a person more likely to survive that.

Oversoul - Finally oversoul. He opens by saying "these roles are lame." He also requested roles. On top of this, Oversoul had light buses on both RC and Sadude. Nothing substantial and nothing he needs to commit to, but they are there. This one for Sadude and this one for RC. He is right, RC is active, and he is directing this scum game.

I feel like you are incredibly off base with your reads this game if you're going to base the entire scumteam around me. You are too influenced by your own confirmation bias that I

must

be scum. Please read your own reasoning for me being scum.

"Oversoul thinks these roles are lame" Ok.
"Oversoul then ASKS for one of those lame roles" Ok.
"Therefore, Oversoul must be scum"

The only thing I can conclude from your scumread on me is that your preconceived notions about how scum would play this game are entirely wrong since I am your strongest scumread and I

know

you're wrong about that.

1. Objectively, these roles are lame. I was thinking we would get more basic things like 1-shot vigilante, tracker, roleblocker, macho cop, etc. Instead, we got a motion detector, several mechanic specific day abilities, and a slew of negative utility passive abilities. I came into this game thinking it was going to be role madness. Obviously that is not the case.
2. I chose a role that I felt like I could actually 1) have fun with, and 2) give benefit to the town. I think I am pretty good at needling people to better understand their motivations. I love neighborhoods, masons, etc. It is like a game within the game. I really do not see why scum would objectively want neighborhood when it has no bearing on actual night play (at least as far as Night 1 goes).

You seem to be holding me to

your

standard of play when it comes to these reads and what

you

would do. I very much doubt that you and I play similarly. The answers to my questions about Saudude and RC would be very helpful for me to ascertain their general motivations in this game. If Saudude has done this type of contradictory behavior, then it would help frame is motivations as not scummy. Additionally, if RC likes being scum and would try, then his lack of trying would help frame is motivation as not scummy.

Pedit:

No he is not. I thought Almost was Alchemist.

This feels like a very honest town-post to me.

Vecna, do you have experience playing with Gamma Emerald?

Also, I do, but its been really hit or miss for me to read his alignment. I used to be able to catch him fairly easily as scum, but he changed up his game and it has become a lot harder for me to tell his alignment.

And when Titus replaces into a scum-slot it usually becomes apparent really quickly. Regardless, I agreed with most of Momo's posts on RC. Its been so long since I saw an RC towngame that I probably dont even remember what that looks like though.

All of these posts struck as me town because of context (originality), nuance, and shifting but well maintained opinions (thought process seems reasonable)

Idk vecna but given that he has been around for a few years, I’m assuming that he wouldn’t be afraid to bus as scum. So him taking against the grain reads feels town.

Also most ppl, as scum, put more thought into posts then as town. Much less open. This leaks into their posts. The tone feels very genuine and I like that.

[momo]

What did my hydra partner even do that was so scummy? :thonk:
At the moment I think the inventor should go to ice
Sau gets the Glad
Almost gets the king or IC

Momo gets miller
Gamma gets inactive
Cheeky gets timid

Why the fuck do I get inactive

We all moved on from that proposal. Realized that having a town slot in backup makes scum lynching powers irrelevant. That means ppl will be lynched of reads.

Currently the only two options are the one up for voting, and the proposed one in 605 (though we might switch you and almost in the 605 post).

[momo]

What did my hydra partner even do that was so scummy? :thonk:
At the moment I think the inventor should go to ice
Sau gets the Glad
Almost gets the king or IC

Momo gets miller
Gamma gets inactive
Cheeky gets timid

Why the fuck do I get inactive

We all moved on from that proposal. Realized that having a town slot in backup makes scum lynching powers irrelevant. That means ppl will be lynched of reads.

Currently the only two options are the one up for voting, and the proposed one in 605 (though we might switch you and almost in the 605 post).

if u have a proposal that u think is better, feel free to propose

or suggest changes to the one in 605

[momo]

I'll draft something in awhile or tomorrow

dude read the game and the roles first though...not knowing how the lynch works was kind of sad

btw, idk if u realize this, but RC was scummy af

and ur scumslip while drunk wasn't that great too

[momo]

HH is scum, as long as RC is scum.

If RC is town so is HH. (But doubt).

[momo]

Gun to my head if mono is scum, Vecna greater than rand scum

Vanilla: momo - I am not sure if momo is scum but I don't want him to have a pr

[momo]

lmfao at Titus's proposal though

[momo]

Gladiator - Almost50
Inactive - Saudude
D5 IC - Gamma Emerald
Inventor - Iconeum
D3 King - popsofctown
Macho - CheekyTeeky
Miller - Vecna
Odd Night Motion Detector - apthet
Neighbor - Lil Uzi Vert
Neighbor- momo
Timid - Hidden Happiness
N1 Universal Backup - Nero Cain
Vanilla - Oversoul
Compulsive Quitter - Titus

This is the proposal from 605 that was pretty consensus with the change that switches a50 and gamma.

If anyone wants to propose this, you have my vote.

[momo]

is it odd if im like, okay, with just about any proposal that doesnt have me as comp quit

it depends

that's not really a pro town attitude

but if u don't care about winning, then it's whatever

[momo]

Tldr my proposal is

Gladiate: icon
Inactive: Titus [For you told people, it's me realizing my spot's too shaded to be let near power and I'd be shot if I got day 5 if before it's useful).
IC: Oversoul
Inventor: Vecna
D3 King: Gamma
Odd Night Motion Detector: Nero
Neighbors: A50 and Sausuade (I think at least one is scum)
Timid: Cheeky
Backup: Oversoul (Realized he didn't have a role in my last draft).
Vanilla: Momo
Quitter: Aphetet

Lil is odd man out

Your reads are hot garbage.

Apthet has been objectively towny. There's definitely not enough to lynch him.

I kinda like gamma this game, but he's too hard to D1 read to give him King.

You clearly don't understand how to properly utilize the neighbors role. There's two main strats we can take. One strong town person and one person that we can't read that well. Or two strong town ppl so that they can discuss openly.

Your read on me changes (seriously, how do you go from gun to head if I'm not town, to u don't know my alignment). U tried pocketing me, it didn't work, so now ur trying to undermine me.

If you bothered to read the game, you would know that pops has been towny. His points that you found scummy all seemed valid to me.

Obviously nobody is a mind reader but a reasonable assumption is that the roles get better as the days go on. Especially when considering that none of the roles available today are particularly powerful.

[momo]

Town Tier (in no particular order)

popsofctown - I have never played with pops but they are showing a great ability to go against what is being accepted. Going against my the reasons for me saying people requesting a role was scum, but still thinking they are scum. Calling out a50 for the Independence Day thing, calling out Vecna, and exposing what would be ideal scum strats. This is town. [/color

VOTE: Hidden Happiness
It's not unusual for some players to be disinterested by mechanics, but there's so many little things you can comment on here that it seems a little implausible she'd get bored. It's not stuff like hypoclaiming hider it's stuff like, do I want my scumread to become a miller? (I think I don't I think I just want to lynch my scumread).

I don't think the king's actions should be leashed on D3 but I think the king should be held accountable for his actions. It's possible the D3 roster is so powerful that the scum gets positive equity from the king drawing up a blatantly antitown playbook and being lynched the next day, granting inactive to the person we made the inventor or maybe even someone we made a cop day 2, killing the D5 IC, granting himself vengeful maybe... it could be some really bad stuff. So I think the kingship should be granted to a townread. A widely townread king who gets NKed would be good for us, a town king is only slightly better than a democratic day 3 and nothing like the advantage generated by a town inventor, the IC, probably it doesn't matter even as much as motion detector.

You are supposed to kill a negative utility PR, forcing the universal backup to become a negative utility PR. It's opposite day.


I have no idea why you are complaining about the setup design resulting in a nightkill strategy of kill the most protown player because that's the nightkill strategy in mountainous and also the nightkill strategy in basically any closed game where no successful rolefishing took place.

It's a social deduction game you're supposed to want to remove the people who are doing well at the social deduction game sorry you're not going to have some kind of fascinating decision whether it's better to surprise Veigar ult the healer before their heal spell or value removing the ranged carry but I would really consider my expectation betrayed rather than fulfilled if the rolecall mechanic added a separate axis for the nightkills instead of mostly being standard mafia.

Here's a new strategy: Let's all in to games we know we won't play. Like, if you're on a holiday. or if you have exams, or you have a new job.. you're wedding is within a week.. etc.

You're an aussie but many people here treat American Independence day as a one shot, 1 day, 24 hour holiday. My parents planned dinner and a movie. I don't think it's unreasonable at all to /in for a game knowing you'll have a 1 day absence coming up.

If apthet is going to take Friday off from work and combine the weekend into a 5 day vacation I'm definitely with you, though, I missed Pokémon Ruby Mafia because I knew I had a 1 week vacation coming up.

Iconeum replaced into a game about a week before its wedding so we can policy lynch Iconeum here if you feel strongly about this

Your win condition isn't to make momo happy it's to kill all the mafia.

If he's truly your top townread you should want him king.
I don't particularly want the gladiator ability to be on someone who's eager to use it. Gladiator days generate less information. It's only a half step away from governor where technically if you fire it very accurately it furthers the town wincon but overall you're subverting the protown mechanics of the game and it's negative utility really.

There have been no previous proposals.

Current proposal

(by momo ):

• 1-shot Gladiator
  : momo
  Nope not a fan, see my previous posts. Prefer 1-shot Gladiator : Hidden Happiness, since they're too apathetic to dig into mechanics and hopefully additional too hydra to use a high-risk high-reward mechanic. When I play Mario Kart Double Dash co-op I'm too scared to take the fancy shortcuts and embarrass myself and harm my poor teammate, true story.
  
  
• Inactive
  : Saudade
  I'm pretty o.k. with this
  
  
• Day 5 Innocent Child
  : Oversoul
  This seems wasteful as this slot seems legible. I'd prefer to see this on Nero Cain, who I remember difficulty reading, CheekyTeeky who has seemed to start to establish a difficult to read style so far, or even just like "the hydra because hydras are hard to read"
  
  
• Inventor
  : popsofctown
  I'm not going to object to getting the second most powerful role, I think if I sketched out what my INT DEX STR CHR WIS LUK spread was for mafia I'm better at scumreading than at townreading compared to the average player (but it's still easier to townread), for the record.
  
  
• Day 3 King
  : Vecna
  ok I guess I can swallow pride/proxy ego enough for this, certainly not a slot who is going to be lazy and submit rand choices.
  
  
• Macho
  : Lil Uzi Vert
  Yeah I don't think LUV is generally NK bait
  
  
• Miller
  : apthet
  We don't have posts from this player. Miller should go to a high legibility player. It's the opposite of day 5 IC. I'd want to see this on Oversoul or Almost50 or momo.
  [*]

  Odd-Night Motion Detector

  : Gamma Emerald

  This is actually kind of fits GE a bit I think he would tend to survive a to get lots of shots off. It doesn't necessarily need to fall in town hands because a Motion Detector can themselves be caught in a lie at times.

  
  [*]

  Neighbour

  : Nero Cain

  I'd rather the neighborhood go to a townread player or at least someone who I think would use it. There's scenarios where you want to communicate night action results only in the neighborhood so an all town neighborhood can be good and NC is pretty null to me so far.

  
  [*]

  Neighbour

  : Almost50

  I tentatively TR Almost50 so this is ok

  
  [*]

  Timid

  : Hidden Happiness

  This role is basically VT. VT/ "can't become king if callforjudgment distributes a king again". So it's whatever

  
  [*]

  Night 1 Universal Backup

  : CheekyTeeky

  One of the scummier slots in the game for me by PoE so I'm ok with it getting a negative utility role, which it is pretty likely this becomes.

  
  [*]

  Vanilla

  : Iconeum

  This is an excellent role for someone who went 49 hours without visiting the thread in a recent game >_> <_< >_>

  
  [*]

  Compulsive Quitter

  : Titus

The replace-out and the events leading up to it don't look great. I think RC is a guy who maybe has some kinds of principles and sensibilities going on that are not necessarily 100% married to his alignment, but I don't see anyway this lynch is -worse- than rand, I don't think he'd set up a categorical rule against replacing out as scum over issue X or Y.

"color" commentary by drunkpops

VOTE: Vote: Against willing to let the perfect be the enemy of the good here

First quote is my thoughts on him during my colored post. Haven't changed much.

Next 4 quotes are posts that he made that struck me as particularly town. Challenging thoughts even when his reads agreed. Going against the status quo. All great town posts.

The last two are his analysis on the proposal. He got a powerful role, was willing to give up King, and agreed with most decisions.

Then, he voted against saying that good is the enemy of perfect. I don't see scum pops doing that. Nobody would have called him scum for accepting the proposal. But he rejected it anyways.

[momo]

Like every role that has lynch potential control has a scumread on it.

ik u sr a50 but we agreed earlier in the game as town (which you would know if you read the game you fucking replaced into) that using the gladiator role is basically a scum claim.

pops isn't scum. that's facts.

[momo]

Venca, I don't have too many objections to ur proposal. Honestly, i would prefer a neighbor role, because in case RC flips town, (or even if he flips scum), I want to have someone (that I think is town) that I can tell my reads to. That said, actively turning down King as town, isn't a something I would do. The only 100% townread I can possibly have is me.

Giving apthet backup was actually a pretty smart move for town (unless he's scum, then we're fucked). But I doubt it. Putting someone that's super active town in backup would just result in scum killing a negative utility role (say inactive) and that's a shit position for town to be in. apthet is pretty towny but not pushing hard for anything.

My main problem is you giving yourself miller. When I proposed it, it was more of a I trust you and that's fine. But putting yourself in the miller role is kinda scummy. I don't scumread you, but I'd prefer if you gave urself inventor. Ik you don't want to be NK'd but it would be much better on you.

Give iconeum miller. Odds of scum!icon are very low. It just feels better overall.

[momo]

guys, I hate to say it, but im starting to get town feelings from the titus slot here.

i guess

but you have to consider the context this read is coming in

because she claims to have not read the game, she hasn't addressed the valid scumreads on her slot

she's pushing forward trying to act town, but i just don't feel it

completely ignoring the fact that the majority of the game wants you lynched isn't a good look

like i'm known for having an idgaf attitude about wagons as town, but as town in this game, if all the serious proposals had me getting lynched, i'd address the issue

[momo]

j'mapelle Shadoweh, je suis aller a la bibliothèque pour une petite soir

Je mange de la salade verte

Quand je joue mafia, je ne parle pas en francais

[momo]

Proposal 2 - Proposed by Vecna

Gladiator - Almost50
Inactive - Saudude
D5 IC - Nero Cain
Inventor - Iconeum
D3 King - Momo
Macho - CheekyTeeky
Miller - Vecna
Odd Night Motion Detector - Lil Uzi Vert
Neighbor - Popsofctown
Neighbor - Gamma Emerald
Timid - Hidden Happiness
N1 Universal Backup - Aphtet
Vanilla - Oversoul
Compulsive Quitter - Titus

VOTE: For

are you really fine with vecna giving himself miller?

[momo]

are you really fine with vecna giving himself miller?

He's town

i get that, hell my second proposal gave him the role

that doens't mean it's a good look

and since he is town, he should be getting inventor...

[momo]

@Oversoul HH would be the backup. I corrected that flaw later. You're good enough as town and had lurker issues in the past that can make you lynchbait.

VOTE: Against

Can we stop locking in proposals that don't work?

I came in, gave the correct response when I recovered. What more do you want? I can't catch the entire scumteam, explain optimal strategy, stop town from biting it's own head off, block scum from getting the PRs and clear myself alone.

you didn't give the optimal response

you scumslipped for one

then u ignored all the reasons you are scum

and just tried to scumhunt, but only had bullshit reads

[momo]

l

To quote pops, i'm not willing to let good be the enemy of perfect

we still have a lot of time, new proposals can extend the deadline

how about we just reject this one, and have you propose one that gives vecna inventor and iconeum miller

that proposal is better, and town would have nothing to lose

plus a longer day gives us more information

[momo]

Are you that heavily townreading Iconeum?

Let's go with that explanation for now.

[momo]

Are you that heavily townreading Iconeum?

Let's go with that explanation for now.

to be clear i still TR vecna

this switch would just be better

[momo]

oversoul

would you be willing to make a proposal identical to vecna's but switching vecna and iconeum

[momo]

My issue with Momo being neighbor is he wants me to be a neighbor as well and that just isn’t my strong suit.

the other neighbor doesn't need to be you

it needs to be someone i think is town and when i was making the proposal that's just how it worked out

but yeah, neighbor should probs go to someone who would use it more than me

[momo]

Vecna should not be Miller. Vecna in a Miller proposal "must be lynched" after he mislynched a townie unless he gets the FN.

This declaration adds up to the previous ones for why you must be lynched today,

regardless of your alignment.

It has been already mod confirmed that Miller would make FN worthless if given to him, because Miller in this game is Universal, meaning Vecna will be treated as scum ALWAYS. If he can't be confirmed as IC if given Miller then he can't sent a message as a Friendly Neighbor either. (Check 212)

Your "not reading upon replacement" is good enough in Normal games. In Theme Park it's lazy at best, but could very well be an excuse for scum to manipulate the day play.

Let me sum it up for you: You don't know how the roles work, and you don't know how they interact with each other, and you don't know why X has a given read on Y. You really think that's the way to solve the game IF you are town?

a50, bro that was a great post

and then you had to go and say regardless of your alignment



why is sorting ppl so hard

[momo]

how about we just reject this one, and have you propose one that gives vecna inventor and iconeum miller

Where did I state such a string TR on Iconeum to justify giving him the Miller?

true

it's just, icon just doesn't seem scum

and giving a strong tr miller seems like a waste

we don't have any investigative roles yet...we might get more later, but you don't need a guilty to lynch someone

[momo]

how about we just reject this one, and have you propose one that gives vecna inventor and iconeum miller

Where did I state such a string TR on Iconeum to justify giving him the Miller?

but this is a good post

i think i tr you again

idk, ur hard to read

[momo]

and then you had to go and say regardless of your alignment

The way Titus phrased some of her posts suggest she might be town here, and in this case RC was just being RC.

In short, I am not as sure Titus flips scum here anymore, but her play isn't gonna get us anywhere closer to win if she is Town.

And who is us here? The only thing you've done since you got back is needle me over not reading.

Common sense says a miller friendly neighbor can exist. Why would anyone suspect the mod of rewriting the the rules? A simple hey that's not how it works and hunting would be fine but you have to look like you're doing something.

Do something other than bitch about me scumfuck.

and she's scum

[momo]

and then you had to go and say regardless of your alignment

The way Titus phrased some of her posts suggest she might be town here, and in this case RC was just being RC.

In short, I am not as sure Titus flips scum here anymore, but her play isn't gonna get us anywhere closer to win if she is Town.

And who is us here? The only thing you've done since you got back is needle me over not reading.

Common sense says a miller friendly neighbor can exist. Why would anyone suspect the mod of rewriting the the rules? A simple hey that's not how it works and hunting would be fine but you have to look like you're doing something.

Do something other than bitch about me scumfuck.

and she's scum

why do people have to get so emotional when playing mafia

someone scumreading you isn't a fucking personal attack

[momo]

oh yeah i haven't actually voted against yet

VOTE: against

This proposal pops?

Gladiator - Almost50
Inactive - Saudude
D5 IC - Nero Cain
Inventor - Vecna
D3 King - Momo
Macho - CheekyTeeky
Miller - Iconeum
Odd Night Motion Detector - Lil Uzi Vert
Neighbor - Popsofctown
Neighbor - Gamma Emerald
Timid - Hidden Happiness
N1 Universal Backup - Aphtet
Vanilla - Oversoul
Compulsive Quitter - Titus

[momo]

VOTE: for

[momo]

I put forth the following as proposal

Gladiator - Hidden Happiness
Inactive - Saudude
D5 IC - Gamma Emerald
Inventor - popsofctown
D3 King - momo
Macho - CheekyTeeky
Miller - Nero Cain
Odd Night Motion Detector - Lil Uzi Vert
Neighbor - Oversoul
Neighbor- almost50
Timid - Iconeum
N1 Universal Backup - Vecna
Vanilla - apthet
Compulsive Quitter - Titus


VOTE: For

Bolded green for thoughts this time, because I really like the way this color looks (don't judge me).

Mostly I'm in support of this proposal. Voting for this rn because a lot of ppl have used theirs. Don't know if we'll get a better one.

Gladiator HH is fine, as long as we're sticking with pops' idea that using the gladiator 1-shot is a scum claim. If you can't bring town to a consensus, you're doing it wrong. Don't force their hand.

As I said before, neighbor would have been more fun but I agree that a50 and oversoul will use it better than me. Both of you are townleans. On top of working together, your main goal should be reading each other.

Miller Nero is an interesting choice, given that I think he's town, but not 100% sure. That said, strongest town reads have more important roles. In late game, just because he's the miller, doesn't mean that he shouldn't be lynched. Should keep on reading him as normal.

Motion detector LUV is nice. He's town. LUV, I'm reading into your other ideas and secrecy as town who is playing his cards to his chest. I'm assuming you know who you need to track in case RC flips town.

Titus lynch was a given.

If RC flips town and a high scum utility PR dies, Vecna probs scum.

If RC flips scum, Vecna Town.

If RC flips town and a low or negative utility PR dies, WIFOM aspects must be considered and reads must be made.

Overall, this is a good proposal. Combined with the flip, it should give the town a lot of information. We just need to play it right. In case I die before I get to make another post, this is goodbye. If we follow through with this proposal and town plays smart, we should win regardless of the flip.

[momo]

An Old Post Game Post From Gamma

Scum can experience genuine frustration. Gamma said that in this thread, and he has an old post backing it up. It sounded incredibly genuine when he said it, but I wasn't sure. It was one line repeated over and over. Now, we see in the post game of a game in which he was

town

, he made a similar post.

Gamma is town.

[momo]

1-shot Gladiator: Oversoul
Inactive: Gamma Emerald (following partner on this one)
Day 5 Innocent Child: Hidden Happiness (grumble)
Inventor: Iconeum
Day 3 King: popsofctown
Macho: Nero Cain
Miller: momo
Odd-Night Motion Detector: Luv (But we leash him to where we want him)
Vecna:Neighbor
Saudade: Neighbor
apthet: Timid
CheekyTeeky:Night 1 Universal Backup
Titus:Vanilla
Compulsive Quitter: Almost50

Leashing an investigative role is a level of stupid I didn't expect to see on this site.

Giving urself D5 IC, is a nice way to keep urself alive.

Saudude has shown a lack of interest in this game. He's definitely not going to utilize a neighborhood properly.

Making CT the universal backup is stupid. The UB should be someone you think is town. CT has been scummy and is now disappearing, so we don't have chances to read her. If she's scum, that means scum can basically choose which of these roles they want.

Why tf is apthet timid. What has he done to convince you that he's scummy?

[momo]

I put forth the following as proposal

Gladiator - Hidden Happiness
Inactive - Saudude
D5 IC - Gamma Emerald
Inventor - popsofctown
D3 King - momo
Macho - CheekyTeeky
Miller - Nero Cain
Odd Night Motion Detector - Lil Uzi Vert
Neighbor - Oversoul
Neighbor- almost50
Timid - Iconeum
N1 Universal Backup - Vecna
Vanilla - apthet
Compulsive Quitter - Titus


VOTE: For

Why does Ico have Timid?

Honestly wondering this too...

[momo]

An Old Post Game Post From Gamma

Scum can experience genuine frustration. Gamma said that in this thread, and he has an old post backing it up. It sounded incredibly genuine when he said it, but I wasn't sure. It was one line repeated over and over. Now, we see in the post game of a game in which he was

town

, he made a similar post.

Gamma is town.

...I was scum that game.

DID I FOOL YOU POST GAME THERE?

Whelp was just looking through ur old posts...didn’t look through thread itself

My point still stands. It was post game, alignment does t meantter. U were probs genuine then. Making u genuine now too.

But calling out a post where someone townread calls u town is good town play friend

[momo]

I largely grok the pop proposal. VOTE: For

That said, strongest town reads have more important roles.

your town read on me has wanned?

Miller should be someone tr but not someone pushing really hard for things (role can hurt credibility sometimes). That said, I can’t see scum objecting to miller.

Ur still town m8.

[momo]

I put forth the following as proposal

Gladiator - Hidden Happiness
Inactive - Saudude
D5 IC - Gamma Emerald
Inventor - popsofctown
D3 King - momo
Macho - CheekyTeeky
Miller - Nero Cain
Odd Night Motion Detector - Lil Uzi Vert
Neighbor - Oversoul
Neighbor- almost50
Timid - Iconeum
N1 Universal Backup - Vecna
Vanilla - apthet
Compulsive Quitter - Titus


VOTE: For

Bolded green for thoughts this time, because I really like the way this color looks (don't judge me).

Mostly I'm in support of this proposal. Voting for this rn because a lot of ppl have used theirs. Don't know if we'll get a better one.

Gladiator HH is fine, as long as we're sticking with pops' idea that using the gladiator 1-shot is a scum claim. If you can't bring town to a consensus, you're doing it wrong. Don't force their hand.

As I said before, neighbor would have been more fun but I agree that a50 and oversoul will use it better than me. Both of you are townleans. On top of working together, your main goal should be reading each other.

Miller Nero is an interesting choice, given that I think he's town, but not 100% sure. That said, strongest town reads have more important roles. In late game, just because he's the miller, doesn't mean that he shouldn't be lynched. Should keep on reading him as normal.

Motion detector LUV is nice. He's town. LUV, I'm reading into your other ideas and secrecy as town who is playing his cards to his chest. I'm assuming you know who you need to track in case RC flips town.

Titus lynch was a given.

If RC flips town and a high scum utility PR dies, Vecna probs scum.

If RC flips scum, Vecna Town.

If RC flips town and a low or negative utility PR dies, WIFOM aspects must be considered and reads must be made.

Overall, this is a good proposal. Combined with the flip, it should give the town a lot of information. We just need to play it right. In case I die before I get to make another post, this is goodbye. If we follow through with this proposal and town plays smart, we should win regardless of the flip.

with this current proposal we still have way too many high value nk targets.

We achieved the exact opposite of what we set out to do.

As long as UB is town, high value NK targets shouldn’t matter. We might not have a backup in future days and should use this opportunity to get the strongest TRs solid roles.

[momo]

a50 might actually be scum, more on this when I get home

[momo]

a50 might actually be scum, more on this when I get home

[momo]

My top 2 scumreads right now are pops and Hidden.

This is usually the part where you elaborate.

[momo]

there is no way to night kill the PRs in this setup

Clap clap clap

[momo]

UNVOTE:

[momo]

Alright, guys I'm very sorry that I haven't been on that much lately. Last week, because of fourth of July, i took the entire week of, so my activity was unusual. Back at work and my schedule is kinda annoying but here goes.

I'm going to VOTE: for again.

It's possible that a50 is scum. It's also very possible that Titus is scum. It's also possible that they are scum together.
(My thoughts on this: RC was scummy. Like this is basically objective fact at this time. a50's reaction to RC first posts, the ones that were incredibly sus and eventually resulted in our fight and people scumreading him, was that for the first time, he was townreading RC. The first time RC mentioned a50 was asking him why he wasn't doing anything useful. a50 responds that he has already said that my slot (momo) is the towniest in the game, and he's not going back on that. RC doesn't push him further. This seemed very much like an interaction in between two scumbuddies.

Then, when he was sufficiently townread, a50 went inactive. (To be fair, one could argue that I'm doing the same thing, but ik my motivations are different). When pressure comes on him again, he's right back. It was very un a50-like to basically sit out my and RC's argument. He didn't want to alienate town on his side, but he didn't want to push against his scum buddy either.

Ofc, then a50 could have also been town.

@popsofctown's

about 2 obvscum and 1 deepwolf struck a cord with me. In any situation in which a50 is scum, this statement would most likely be true. But then a50 agreed. That response (1047 to 1046) doesn't seem like something scum would make.

Because of this,

a50 is NOT in my D1 lynchpool

.

Now, moving on to the Titus lynch (and why I have voted for again). I hate to make this argument, because it could very well be interpreted as scummy (but could be towny as well), the Titus lynch gives us the most information.

If Titus is scum, this is obvious. We get a scum lynch, and information.

If Titus is town, we also get a lot of information. Let's be fair, the majority of the substantive interactions D1 have surrounded the slot. Lynching town would be a loss, but it would also give us a lot. It would help differentiate in between town and scum. We could view people on wagons, their tones when interacting with the slot, the level of commitment made.

I don't want to lynch town. I don't think Titus is town. But even if she is, her lynch helps town win the game.

The proposal being voted on right now is a solid available path. Lynching Titus is almost certainly the best path forward. This is why, I must revote for, and why I think the rest of town should too.

[momo]

Also, I don't want to assume that RC made a tactical replace out, and there's no way to prove it, but let's consider this. If RC hadn't replaced out, he would have gotten lynched.

He replaces out, and in only the way a replacement can, Titus ignores everything against her and tries to push on.

Then, in a way that is only possible with the help of scumbuddies, Titus looks like she might not get lynched.

This does not look good for that slot.

[momo]

8

Why aren’t you voting yet?

[momo]

Titus putting down 4 people as scum seems like scum trying to fake a townslip to me (cause scum obv knows that there are only 3 scum).

The timing is bad (pressure is mounting against her) and there’s no way someone can be so incompetent as town that they don’t know how many scum are in this game.

She’s clearly scum guys. If anyone can say she’s town after that “slip”, I don’t understand you.

[momo]

Cheeky is almost certainly scum. Saying "you're lynching me over people that have content" almost certainly indicates that she's lurking to avoid pressure.

That said making Titus and Vecna neighbors isn't something that I can vote for. Titus is scummy imo and Vecna is already townreading her. I tr Vecna, but I don't want him to be Titus' neighbor. If Titus is a neighbor, the other neighbor must be a someone that will look at her critically that is widely townread. I'd volunteer, but people seem to want to give me miller. If that keeps me alive, it's whatever.

VOTE: against

[momo]

Does anyone know if pisskop is normally this active, and if he does catch ups in this format as town?

[momo]

I'm not big into "call out the whole scumteam" but if I was it'd be almost50/Nero Cain/CheekyTeeky

Nice

[momo]

This proposal is mad suspicious.

CT gets kept alive until D5, and a50 out here giving himself vanilla.

Doubt.

VOTE: against

proposal failed

[momo]

I'm not big into "call out the whole scumteam" but if I was it'd be almost50/Nero Cain/CheekyTeeky

Nice

idk bout nero tho

a50 giving him backup kinda shady (especially when he is giving CT IC)

but idk about him alone

[momo]

Props to Vecna for post 1700. The only way a game can go from literally a hair away from lynching Titus/RC to completely accepting her as town is if she's scum.

Also, VOTE: Against

I've been busy and haven't had a chance to interact with pisskop, but Saudude didn't play in a way that gave me confidence in him being town. I want D3 King to be a townread.

[momo]

I'm interested in seeing a proposal from

oversoul

.

I would also like to see a proposal that makes me neighbors with Titus. But that might just be a foolish dream.

[momo]

Fine, on the condition that if a50 flips town, we lynch Titus tmmrw.

VOTE: for

More than anything, I want this day to be over.

[momo]

Guys we need to lynch the arc slot (Creature). The slot is so obv scum and everyone is just moving around the lynch.

[momo]

FWIW, actual AP meta:

ime AP tends to refuge in audacity as scum. Reading him is very much like reading FL, in that you look at what he wants to achieve and not how he goes about achieving it. Grain of salt, the vast majority of our interactions are modding, so it's untested, but that's my 50 cents.

Once again a post on A50, with some thoughts on recent devellopments. Talk to me some on this if u want.

I cant help going back and forth. The feeling after I vote against is that A50 is only responding to my posts where I lists reasons to be suspicious. And its the type of "fight it with logic, and generalistic statements". It doesnt feel like A50 wants to convince me of anything. More that he wants to show everyone how bad my reasoning is.

The proposal lynching him gets shot down, but where is his focus? On arguing about the stuff that should matter next? From a town pov, shouldnt it be on creating momentum for what he uncovered? Shouldnt he be trying to convince people.momo is scum? Direct the lynch to momo or HH, Which were the centrepieces of most of his recent posts?

Instead he attacks me because I dare.use meta in a post. This is what bothers me a bit now. Clear rejoicing in surviving, sure, fine, but wheres the followup. Why doesnt he want to see if his theory is correct, and fight for a HH lynch?

And jingle, id like you to confront a50 a lot more as well. dont sit on the sidelines letting others do the work if youre.gonna try to be influential please.

This

I’m flip flopping on the slot because i feel like he could be scum or town.

[momo]

I can’t believe that yall went and lynched iconeum. Also, how tf did I go from widely townread to inactive. And why is the saudude slot now widely townread.

Creature and pisskop guys. Pisskop came in and completely changed the game. And clearly his changes weren’t good for us. Same goes with both the RC replacements. No talk of lynching them anymore.

[momo]

scum are going to fucking cruise because town was going solid early D1, gaining information, the roles that were being considered initially were good

i end up having a busy time at work and now this game has gone to shit and we have the fucking saudude slot leading the game.

Redacted — callforjudgement

[momo]

bingle, as D3 king, who do you lynch

if you had to choose right now

[momo]

I'll accept a treestump, as long as y'all agree to listen to me when i flip town

pops is not scum

that's a fact

[momo]

HH, what do you think about pops' thoughts on delaying solving LUV til tomorrow on the basis he might be cleared by Cheeky scumflip?

I'm not really okay with Creature complaining about mechanics being the focus and then not trying to form reads when pushed to do so, and the whole treestump convo with Gamma feels pretty LAMIST.

I'm lowkey paranoia-ing on apthet/Cheeky, but I guess that can wait til tomorrow still. Definitely give out bg tonight if town, apthet.

I'm really not sure how to grok the whole momo/AP fight, and the fact that momo has been gone basically since I showed up in the thread doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy at all.

So far I feel pretty confident in pops/pk/HH/Gamma town. Probably pk>Gamma>HH>pops, but that's a shades of grey ordering.

That leaves me with a scum pool of apthet/CT/LUV/Creature/momo/AP.

I don't see AP scum as super likely with most of those, so

HEAL: AP

HURT: momo

I'm busy

I've barely been on site in general

Maybe try and consider what I did while I was active and able to analyze the game instead of when life took over

[momo]

momo got banned for telling his partner to go inactive sitewide and also lie about RL too. Visiting the site less often and playing some extra fallout instead without asking his partners to do the same wouldn't violate site rules the same way, but since he has told a partner that lurking is a good strategy as scum like obviously he believes lurking is a good strategy as scum.

From my experience it is not.

It isn't a good strategy and not one I would employ. I don't want to discuss the rationale behind that suggestion, considering it got me banned, other than in this post but basically, he was hyperactive site wide and a family emergency would have been trusted. It's not good to lurk without a reason like that one as scum. It was a dick move and not one I would ever repeat.

pops you were reading me as town. don't let other people sway your reads.

[momo]

anyone for lynching me instead of treestumping me is objectively anti-town

confirming me as town and then having me as a conf IC would be a great move for this town

i have literally solved this game but nobody in this thread is listening to me

treestump me. then we win

[momo]

momo are you gonna be able to possibly attend to this game the way you did D1 if work dies down, on D3 or D4
If so I kind of agree.

If i'm treestumped, yes. I have time after work, but it's a very limited amount of time. I'm naturally going to spend it on things that excite me. Getting ignored by the entire playerlist just doesn't cut it for me.

[momo]

y'all know i'm for lynching creature and treestumping myself

this is ideal

[momo]

y'all know i'm for lynching creature and treestumping myself

this is ideal

Do we? Cuz I don't see your vote for it

VOTE: for

[momo]

pk and I have been discussing our reads more in depth in the neighborhood so if we both get investigative roles it might not be optimal to add an {additional} potential scum to the neighborhood. The alternative would be to neighborize Dunnstral or to

@mod: is Neighbor: popsofctown a valid role assignment, or is that similar to momo: psychologist in validity?

why can't i be psychologist?

[momo]

Guys Creature's post could easily be scum trying to manipulate us as WIFOM and should be viewed as NAI.

And pops, I thought we agreed upon treestumping me?

[momo]

i was reading oversoul more and more as town until he replaced out...give bingle a chance

idk why he was given king instead of vecna or pops but it is what it is

[momo]

Guys before you reject this proposal, does anyone have an actual idea for a proposal that they can (unofficially) post in thread?

[momo]

Hey guys imma go back and read the game. I’ll try and post tonight.

[momo]

Sorry for the necro, but I've been thinking about this and I owe RC a public apology. While I don't view myself as completely to blame, I started viewing RC's emotions as invalid, and made this game worse for him, for the mod, for me, and for the other players.

I accused him of cheating and tactical replace outs and the worst part is, other people went along with that accusation. That was completely uncalled form, and I'd just like to say that I'm sorry.