Pokémon Fusion U-Pick [Game Over]

[itlepip]

Helllllloooooo

[itlepip]

Anything you want to tell me before I read 900 posts?

Also, I've learned what LAMIST is but when did it come up, it was not a thing when I last played. Gamma how was 310 LAMIST, if anything it would be LAMISS. I promise I have more interesting questions than that but that's been kinda nagging at me for not a really good reason.

[itlepip]

What are people's reads on Book kid, that slot feels really scummy but it could be newbie awkwardness? I don't have a great case but none of their posts are sitting well with me.

Probably going to vote GE otherwise here unless something changes in the last few pages. (Not for the lameist thing btw)

[itlepip]

Probably going to vote GE otherwise here unless something changes in the last few pages. (Not for the lameist thing btw)

What reasons are you going to vote for Gamma Emerald? I would appreciate your read on Alchemist. :)

GE
He doesn't give a single good reason for any of his votes, I don't think I disagree with that many of his reads (which doesn't matter at all), but I don't agree with almost any of the reasons. For example 407 is a read I slightly agree with (not nearly as much as some people here but once SS starts actually doing things I expect to have a better read than most of town); however, that really isn't the post that does anything. It clearly is anger/frustration from another game, which isn't necessarily bad but it certainly isn't alignment indicative.

(For the record, SS claimed early that him trying to teach DEB was not alignment indicative, (but that him trying to kill him was :P)

Alchemist - His pushes don't feel terrible, I definitely want way more from the slot but don't particularly want it lynched today. Right now I have a lot of "probably don't want to lynch them today but need to reevaluate later" reads and Alchemist is almost certainly leading that pile.

[itlepip]

VOTE: Gamma

Good sheep :)

Also flippynips could easily be scum here, will wait for catchup though.

[itlepip]

For the record the sheep comment on Oversoul is cause their avi looks sheep like, I wasn't going to comment when Oversoul mentioned it but with two this is a bit silly.

[itlepip]

Oops, thought I already voted VOTE: ʛɑɱɱӔmҽяaldͩ

[itlepip]

He doesn't give a single good reason for any of his votes, I don't think I disagree with that many of his reads (which doesn't matter at all), but I don't agree with almost any of the reasons. For example 407 is a read I slightly agree with (not nearly as much as some people here but once SS starts actually doing things I expect to have a better read than most of town); however, that really isn't the post that does anything. It clearly is anger/frustration from another game, which isn't necessarily bad but it certainly isn't alignment indicative.

I get that you don't agree with most of what Gamma says but is there a reason you expect to be mindmelding with t!gamma?

I feel like this just isn't what I said, I agree with his reads, but his reasons don't feel real. For the record I try really hard to not townread people based on whether they agree with me, which is why I'm trying to not just townclear oversoul because I'm pretty sure we have if not the exact same readlist an exceptionally similar one.

Pages and pages of Mastina and Avengers posts makes Debbie a dull boy.

Vote Gamma with me! :)

MariaR, why is Gamma town?

I feel like I am mostly confused by Gamma completely ignoring his burgeoning wagon. :?

Pink Ball, why is Gamma town

Gamma can be town.

VOTE: love and friendship

VOTE: Gamma

Like I see legitimately NOTHING demonstrating actual thought. There is NOTHING between these posts where you acknowledge anything I or anyone else says beyond the one tome you ask itlepip about his vote on me. It's shitty as both alignments but makes more sense overall if you're scum.

This feels very selective and not very indicative. Like if you have meta that says that oversoul is a tryhard town or something sure, but is an example of pushing something that I don't think an experienced player would push as town. Like if you pushed for reasons I would be super on board but it feels more like an excuse to scumread than an attempt to sort someone,

btw Oversoul I do agree that giving a bit more would be helpful.

gemerald looks really towny

menalque ur read is bad

I mean u think my gemerald read is good

yeah but like RCE and SS who are like the players who actually know how to read me are townreading me and i think you should listen to them

Honestly the fact that half the town cleared you when they knew who you were is probably the main reason I am pushing GE first. That said I believe that for a towny, trusting your own reads even if they are bad (ie random) is better than sheeping town consensus because scum affect that consensus but not your own reads (unless the better read is either from very good logic or from someone very towny). So

[itlepip]

Also did I mention yet that I am currently 3/3 across all my games

What does this mean?

Oi can you like actually do something, I can't say I don't like the gifs but if you just want to post memes there are other threads to do it in. Like if you play like this all game, I think either lynching you or shooting you would probably help town no matter what your alignment. Like if I was a vig I'm probably shooting you before my scum reads cause at least they could be useful if they were town.

[itlepip]

Oversoul, it was a really fun 2 pages, hope everything in your family turns out okay.

Also Piskop that votal isn't right, I'm not voting for Oversoul

[itlepip]

Hey SS can you drop some reads on this thread? You said you would reread and interested to see where you are after that

[itlepip]

If it helps, I think the best way to read the hydra is to read Black Widow's posts and ignore the other heads since they basically don't do anything.

Also what were the RF quips, since that seems to be your spiciest read. Also please explain your mastina read since I don't see it

[itlepip]

Could be SK? But I kinda see what you are seeing (or Red could just be lying :P)

[itlepip]

MariaR
Avengers
Skellen
Dr Easy Bake
Chemist1422
Emperor flippyNips
itlepip

This are the seven players who aren't in my townbloc. From them, Chemist is probably town and DEB is a mistery. If I had to take one more of the five remaining, it would be Avengers. So Skellen, Maria, Flippernipples and itlepip.

Can you justify your town bloc, at least at little bit (especially with GE, the other reads are nice but less important).

[itlepip]

Hey SS can you drop some reads on this thread? You said you would reread and interested to see where you are after that

What do you mean with "on this thread"? Are you implying something?

You may get answers if you give them first honey

My answer is damn you got me I'm actually a mason with SS but I wanted him to post his reads here instead of in our private thread. I didn't want to out it but you forced me to with all that quality pressure honey.

[itlepip]

I'm honestly not even sure what my role is, I basically have my reads, which are probably slightly better than random, and that's it. I really have 0 info for you.

[itlepip]

@Book
Overview of all of GE's reads and votes

Through post 400, his vote is for a tiny post that I guess he explains but he doesn't push and it's basically 0 effort read

407 Is not the correct post to read SS off of.

He then changes his vote to PL for DEB (tbh I kinda feel it, but it still isn't really scumhunting)

624Gives a gut town read to Mastina, which is okay but not great. Like literally everything he's done so far is just meh.

626 Votes for Skellan to sheep PB, if he has an interesting read here he doesn't give it.

673 At this point has defended not voting for RF 3 times, despite having a scum read there. Again not necessarily bad but definitely not good. Especially since the only time he has mentioned skellen so far is to vote them.

674 Passively goes along with someone scumreading SS

684 4 times without actually pressuring his vote at all.

725 Gives a 'snap' (ie lazy) town read on Avengers, again without any reasoning.

734 Gives a snap town read on Maria (the RF slot he didn't vote) (737 doesn't count as a valid reason). 756 Won't vote maria.

883 Says FL book is scum theatre because its taking up 'space'. This was the read that really made me vote the slot, likes its such a nothing read, (ftr still has not mentioned skellen aside from vote).

953 Votes Oversoul for scumreading them basically (imo the progression was fine, the justification for a 'wonky ass progression' doesn't feel like anything for me).

Then is the really terrible 971 from a slot with a way worse progression and even less thought in their reads (Like Oversoul was very towny before the replace out, I think my highest townread, and now after is absolutely my highest). Venge voting a towny slot cause they pressured you is bleh.

973 Huh apparently GE is scumreading RCE, what happened to book kid, skellen, FL, Oversoul, SS scumreads, who knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

1022 Doesn't give any more reasoning for his scumread (maybe) of oversoul

1039 Responds to an oversoul post with a lot of nothing. Basically it boils to "I used my vote for pressure, not for people I thought were scum". Now this may be personal philosophy, but getting voted early d1 isn't pressury, especially (like with skellan), when you don't even mention the person once.

1081 Realizes (as does everyone else I think), that Oversoul's slot is incredibly towny. I mean I'm glad he did but its such an obvious read that doesn't help that much.

Honestly there are people for whom that iso would be bad but not necessarily vote worthy (hi PB and DEB). However this is from someone who acts like they know how to play the game and this either is just really bad town play or scum slowplaying to make sure they pressure the right people. I honestly don't think GE has thought more than a few seconds about whether any given slot is towny or scummy. Maybe he doesn't care because he doesn't want to solve the game or is just a low effort towny. However it makes more sense to me that he's scum who is trying harder to find PR then fake finding scum.

[itlepip]

Please just vote by yourself, I get the gimmick feels funny to you, but its really just kinda boring and making your play more useless than necessary.

Pedit: wut, I'm not grasping at straws, Ausuka asked if I thought that of just that post or all of them, and clearly I think that all of GE's posts are just kinda fluff. Like I don't think its a terrible scum case, but its not supposed to be, I'm just arguing that there is nothing that GE has done that could be useful to town. If he actually thought it was scum theater he should have done something or pushed either of you instead of derping into a weird argument with a towny slot.

Pedit2: PB, again this isn't a push, at some point today I'm probably going to push GE, but this was just explaining why I thought he didn't give good reasons. To quote GE "its a wonky ass progression" and I don't think its comes from town GE.

[itlepip]

Like if town GE just kinda derps around and just makes up whatever reads comes to mind, fine. Like I'm not positive I've caught scum, but its easily scummy enough play for a d1 pressure into either a claim or lynch or both.

You're right, I just think if you are town you pocketed yourself to someone who is slightly likelier than random to be scum. You aren't really pressuring people as much as talking to PB. Like I'm looking forward to your read of PB after this, but to me it feels like coasting right now.

Pedit: huh that was interesting.

[itlepip]

ha

[itlepip]

Honestly I don't have any way of confidently reading pb and have never played with them, and everyone who has is really confident in their read and is kinda all over the place. Rereading I think PB is probably townyish and I have no clue with you so doing your own stuff would be useful for me. My strong feeling kinda went away so idk.

Pedit: uhhh maybe he's softing a n0 green check :P. Honestly I don't know either player so I don't know if this is how they play, I do standby this is just boring play from Melanique. Like especially if PB is confirmed town to you sheeping him is pretty useless since you are spending all your time interacting with someone who you don't need to read.

[itlepip]

Like it feels like such blatant pocketing that maybe people won't actually call it pocketing, which I have seen work. If PB thinks Melanique is town here then I would be more sus.

[itlepip]

Sorry, its a word in french so my mind autocorrects it to that.

[itlepip]

I didn’t reread it and I was born there so I know the language.

[itlepip]

Have you read the game?

[itlepip]

@RCE, mastina

how about making things spicy and hopping on board this wagon to lynch

town

10/10

Honestly I don't entirely know why, I think probably because of SS's town case on Red, but I'm getting massive heebie jeebies off this wagon. I'm really sad that people aren't lynching gamma here, but honestly am interested in most other counterwagons (except on my townreads but most of them are safe at this point).

[itlepip]

Honestly if anything what I did was more shitty whiteknighting than shitty protecting my partner.

Also I think there is a nonzero chance you just scumslipped in your post, like its not certain but it definitely is enough combined with my light townread earlier to not want that slot lynched. I have townreads on like 2/3 other slots, and the vast majority of players I wouldn't mind being lynched.

Also for me the way GE's wagon fell apart feels strange, so I probably want to go back there tomorrow and see what happened.

pedit: None of your arguments against the case make any sense, like it was 3 posts that for a slot putting 0 effort in were unusually towny. Red had the same role pm as Maria so it being a predecessor doesn't matter; those 3 posts were clearly towny, and the rest of Red's posts are crap, as I think most of you realized. But the crap seems mostly NAI.

Basically I don't think any of those posts are in Red's range as scum; Maria's catchup wasn't great tbh, like I was scumreading her for that but it also was mostly for engagement so I think range reads are better.

[itlepip]

lul good luck.

1. I bolded the scum slip
2. I literally have no idea what you mean by TvT. I kinda think you are a bit scummy, but mostly you are just kinda being obnoxious so trying not to let that bias me too much.
3. like I probably should stop responding to this, its just you kinda saying buzz words and arguing semantics against anything I say. But this is my second post responding to you, and you've made almost an entire page responding to me. I'm definitely not getting lynched anytime soon, and I'm definitely not any kind of hook.

I'm just getting a bit frustrated because I've played with people like you before and its really really hard to get you to change your mind on me, so if you are town I'm basically hated for the rest of the game.

Also SS, what are your thoughts on the Maria wagon?

[itlepip]

Oi DEB, if you were a 9x voter, who would you lynch today?

[itlepip]

You clearly are, you don't like my style of pushing/arguing/don't like me talking from memory instead of rereading your iso cause I don't care about your slot today. Like I'm also getting really frustrated with you, I'm just trying to a). not let the game get toxic, and b). not scumread you because you are being obsnitate and dumb cause town can definitely be those things. If you want my reasons for my reads or any other logic I can give them to you.

My current lynch pool is (would prefer) {ge, flippy, FL} followed by (would be fine) {Mastina, DEB, Melanque, avengers, alchemist}. I don't actually think Maria is necessarily townier than some of the people in the second group I just don't like that wagon (honestly glad that Melanque is off of it). If you are willing to lynch somewhere in that pool, otherwise I literally don't care about your opinion of anything, and I don't think responding to "he doesn't think my arguments are good therefore he is scum" is useful for anyone in the game.

[itlepip]

How about Skellen, itlepip?

I thought his reactions to the game early were pretty reasonable (my only catchup note on his slot is that 200 was a decent opening). His apathy towards the game felt genuine and a bit towny. Like he definitely isn't in my town bloc but I don't really see the scumreads on him tbh. Honestly I kinda thought he was being made into mislynch fodder, but after people went for the Red slot, I think it isn't a terrible lynch for today.

Deb, bascially just who would you lynch today if everyone was at L-1.

[itlepip]

Fair enough, I'm going to stay on Gamma for now cause I actively scumread that slot, but I'm definitely willing to join Skellen later if it comes to that.

Also SS wth :P How am I confbiasing?

Also Deb, do you think his whole spat with me is more likely to come from scum or town?

[itlepip]

hehe got a pagetop, suck it mod.

[itlepip]

haha, I'm not voting Melan though. I dunno I kinda think that it comes from scum slightly more than town just subconsciously. Honestly it just made my gut not like the Maria wagon way more than it made me confirm that Melan was scum.

[itlepip]

Honestly I don't have any way of confidently reading pb and have never played with them, and everyone who has is really confident in their read and is kinda all over the place. Rereading I think PB is probably townyish and I have no clue with you so doing your own stuff would be useful for me. My strong feeling kinda went away so idk.

Pedit: uhhh maybe he's softing a n0 green check :P. Honestly I don't know either player so I don't know if this is how they play, I do standby this is just boring play from Melanique. Like especially if PB is confirmed town to you sheeping him is pretty useless since you are spending all your time interacting with someone who you don't need to read.

Saw the last bit quoted, needed context, and I have a question: why wouldn't I interact with locktown? If I trust someone I'd try to get their opinion on things and use them to see if what I'm thinking makes sense.

Difference between talking to confirmed town and sheeping them.

[itlepip]

Where we voting pink ball, I’ll sheep you til I die

I would appreciate people explaining their Skellen read because I do not see it. :nerd: Maybe I need a new prescription.

I thought I was p clear that I’m sheeping pink ball all game

Basically consider pink ball double voter on top of whatever else he has going

I needed to redress the roles somehow because I fucking BET that my role is the best of all

Pink ball is town bc scum wouldn’t share something so pure

VOTE: skellen

Pink, where you at? We staying on skellen or hopping on this deb wagon? I’ve got one or two scumreads but they’re p weak so I don’t really wanna go there yet in case it puts them on the defensive before I’m sure

I wish friendship was enough for a mason thread

Apart from the one I have with mastina obvs

menalque can you talk to me about your book kid read ?

~ black widow

She’s being lurky, which is consistent with her scumgame from what I’ve read of her meta.

Then in terms of the content she has posted some has seemed game advancing but other bits have seemed like just posting to keep her presence here a bit higher.

Not sure though, as I mentioned before I don’t have any strong scumreads yet.

Book kid can be town for now

Gamma can too so long as he promises to stop doubting our shining light’s leadership

I really don’t like the deb wagon, feels weird

That’s super vague but I am tired and a lil wine drunk right now so figuring out why will have to wait until prob tomorrow

Book kid can be town for now

Gamma can too so long as he promises to stop doubting our shining light’s leadership

YOU HAD A SCUMREAD ON BK

earlier, what changed?

It was p weak and she used the phrase electric boogaloo

Thoughts on mastina from those who know her?

Gut town feeling

Cool, we’re melding bc i was thinking that

But I don’t know her so I wanted to hear from someone else

Who’s your top scum/town read?

Pedir: well I guess that answers that

Gamma conf!town for sheeping pink ball

Ooh I know most of those answers and looking forward to how SS respons to it.

Okay, sooo I finally read Melanque's iso. Basically all I remembered of Menalque's iso on my first read was him trolling, sheeping pb and that weird interaction with Maria with that quote twice. On reread he also has a few reads so my issue isn't less there. I never said it was a read so I don't get I keep getting asked questions about it.

[itlepip]

oh fuck, uh

MOD, can you put all of those quotes in a spoiler or something, they weren't supposed to be there[\b]

[itlepip]

yayy 10/10 me, I nailed how MS works :c

[itlepip]

@FL, RCE, gamma

Did SS’s answers to those question ring true to you?

Also is he normally this helpful/friendly or am I being pocketed?

I wanna TR you SS which makes me worried you’re doing a good job of pocketing me

Honestly the only part I was surprised about was that he was scumreading me, pretty disappointed since I thought he could read me a bit better than that.

Like I think I have a decent read on SS and I think he is decently towny so I wouldn't worry about townreading him. That said being helpful definitely isn't alignment indicative. Also the second wagon probably should be gamma, he still has the second most votes and still is scum.

Also SS you could be pocketing Maria since you agree with me that the wagon is bad

[itlepip]

When did self-meta become the meta :p, there's been so much of that recently.

[itlepip]

Also I haven't played here in a while so I kinda forget how to lynch people, any strategies for getting Gamma lynched/wanna join the spicey gamma wagon?

[itlepip]

Nice job Gamma :)

[itlepip]

Its okay, the more page tops you get the more likely you are to win the game.

[itlepip]

Okay I did that ISO and it took all of 2 minutes.

What a mundane slot. What even is the case here? Like I say, I'd compromise vote on it, but it's just really null.

- 'Murica, Hellz Yes!

Which slot is that?

[itlepip]

What about GE?

[itlepip]

Hey, who would be down for a flippy lynch here?

[itlepip]

Well if two people who scumread me are down :P

VOTE: Flippy Nips

[itlepip]

Flippy can you give reads

so we know who your partners are

, so we can read you?

[itlepip]

Is he town-pinging you?

[itlepip]

Do you have any wishes excluding PB?

[itlepip]

Also FL who have you been hard pushing?

[itlepip]

I'd vote RcE Easy bake and Menalque (I don't think Menalque is scum but he's hard defending obv scum so he can go so it's easier to lynch PB)

Do you think all of the more active people are town here?

[itlepip]

Maria has basically only answered that exact question, multiple times, in her iso.

[itlepip]

Why are Gamma and FL town Maria?

[itlepip]

damn sorry :p

[itlepip]

Did I miss anything or is it
"My first reaction was to scumread this vote, blues makes sense considering I’m RF. But I felt like scum FL would want me out of this game right away, but he’d be smart enough to know that I’d call him out for it. So he’s more than likely town"
and
"cum gamma isn't like this it's too confident too much just...Gamma. Gamma does certain stuff he can not fake period and this is town him."

[itlepip]

Debbie, you have posted one read, and literally everything else you have done has been prodging by way of gif. Can you please actually play the game?

[itlepip]

The argument isn't that DEB should live, (cause he shouldn't). But we are in a setup with a lot of vigges (we think), so its better to use it on that slot and pressure a slot that is actually playing that you can make reads off of/ is paying enough attention to claim if they need to.

[itlepip]

Katyusha, if you read the VT role pm it is basically a vig. I think its reasonably safe to assume DEB will die in the night.

[itlepip]

Yo, do people actually think flippy is town here? I'm really suprised that this wagon isn't gaining steam

[itlepip]

YES, LET'S LYNCH FLIPPY

[itlepip]

You could just stop spamming though.

[itlepip]

VOTE: DEB

[itlepip]

If someone attacks DEB, and then claims it, I won't vote them until lylo. I don't understand why you join a game if you literally have no intention of playing it.

meh, I'd rather lynch you here, but will probably go back to flippy so that we don't nl

[itlepip]

It literally is just two people spamming gifs, it could be fucking scum v scum for all I care I just want it to stop.

[itlepip]

OI MOD WHAT WEATHER IS IT

[itlepip]

VOTE: Flip let's just get this over

[itlepip]

This is not the hammer btw

[itlepip]

If the argument is that I would be less frustrated with the spam as a particular alignment I think that's pretty easy to refute.

[itlepip]

Woah

If you hadn't posted that in the middle of pages of spam people might've seen it in time

I'm still down to lynch DEB instead.

[itlepip]

Wait Flip, what actually are you, your claim makes 0 sense right now.

[itlepip]

or WKing

[itlepip]

But also your claim seems contradictory and suspiscous so you are almost certainly mafia here.

[itlepip]

You said you were a COP

[itlepip]

Uh, is someone here to hammer?

[itlepip]

Oi its 11 minutes to deadline

[itlepip]

Oh nvm, Sky changed the deadline.

[itlepip]

Flipps really isn't at L-1 right now.

I do really think Avengers is more likely to be town than flipper.

[itlepip]

Really sad DEB survived the night, there literally is no reason to think that slot is town. Gamma is still almost certainly scum. My other scum reads are kinda all over the place right now, though I think my town reads are generally similar. Also have a decent to large project right now so probably won't be posting for a little bit.

ALSO, Star lord being powerful but immature is literally his defining characteristic, like its what the second movie was about. They built the plot around the characters, at least in that instance (Dr.Strange stopped having a character in that film).

VOTE: Gamma

[itlepip]

Avengers are scum, let's end them

Again, do tell

'Cause I know Nancy, period

. Same reason why Alch is town in here.

No you don’t. You have only correctly read me in one game since MD and that was Undertale. You were convinced I was scum in GS too, remember?

I don’t even gaf that you’re voting me and wrongly sr me but I am seriously tilted that you’d lie about this.

Sr or not. Vote me or not. Mislynch me or not but

do no fucking tell lies about me ever again!

.

In GS I repped in late in the game and I called you obvtown before dying so my point still stands

Sure, that’s why Moon requoted your post, calling me scum, just before he was flipped.

So, if you insist on wrongly sr me, can I at least get an explanation for your read? FYI, I have never been this sick in my entire mafia carreer,

so anyone who is alignment meta-reading me here - whether town or scum is absolutely full of shit

.

Can y'all at least sign your posts, since apparently this slot is important today I have to actually try to read it and its incredibly painful. Currently I am down to lynch nancy and captain america, don't care about iron man and think black widow is town, but fuck knows what I think of the slot. Are we sure they all got the same pm or is this just a secret 18p game.

[itlepip]

I'm voting gamma because I think he is more likely to be scum?

Also, I assumed that Mastina is not a real mason because memes, but if that is real that dramatically changes my reads.

[itlepip]

Why is RCE so high?

[itlepip]

Sorry this weekend has been insane. Avengers if you read literally my next post itle answer your question. Mastina’s reads all feel totally fabricated, I don’t believe that RCE could ever be obvtown here, and things like the gamma read were terrible logic. I think mastina might overrep reads as town (I mean everyone in this game is locktowning random people). Nancy, I am sorry you’re sick and hope you feel better soon, but I feel like Nancy would be less panicked as town than scum since she doesn’t need her partners to bamboozle town. That said I did like Skitt’s posts and mastinas arguments did not change my mind. All being said I have read everything but am not positive what I think of any of the major wagons.

[itlepip]

I don't think this is that kind of game, Pink.

Hey SS can you drop some reads on this thread? You said you would reread and interested to see where you are after that

What do you mean with "on this thread"? Are you implying something?

You may get answers if you give them first honey

My answer is damn you got me I'm actually a mason with SS but I wanted him to post his reads here instead of in our private thread. I didn't want to out it but you forced me to with all that quality pressure honey.

I realize sarcasm doesn’t show up well in type but this is clearly heavily sarcastic. Also 90% sure my role is useless so I can claim if people want.

[itlepip]

Hey y'all.

The last 2 weeks have been preparing for a conference and being at a conference, otherwise I would be all up in that +- analysis (not sure if it works but its nice to do). If I make it to Friday I will have a shit more content that I don't have time for right now.

I am (not a mason FL, come on) a Tangorb :| (why the fuck...), I can "explode" if its hot weather in order to kill both myself and someone else. I think I may have mildly hinted at it at one point, but I mainly was really excited to use it to fake a guilty and then literally blow the game up later in the game, although clearly that isn't going to happen at this point (yay VT).

My current pool would be DEB, PB,GE, SS and the chemists. I've played a shit ton with SS, and there are times where he obvtowns or obvscums or kinda lurks in the middle and this is definitely the third. I thought Melanque reconsidering on me was towny, but his play before that was scummy and he hasn't done anything towny yet. Also all my reads have been wrong so far so ignore all of this. I might actually reconsider my GE read since everyone who knows his meta thinks he's towny, but I still don't understand how that is towny play.

[itlepip]

Jbril, if I am scum why would I claim my actual role if I can’t confirm it

[itlepip]

Also still working on Averngers analysis, but so far pretty sure RCE is town. The day 1 lynch was really up for grabs, Captain America randomly switching from GE to RCE without reading could be dangerous for a partner, and RCE's reactions seem good. Also I've ignored most of PB's posts, but PB is probably town for now. Also 2 avengers slots reading DEB scum meta in order to townread him seems sus. From reading Avengers ISO I'm still pretty sure Gamma is scum but I'm probably too tunneled at this point. Melanque didn't look great from the reread, although the buddying comment was strange and might not come from town. Similarly I don't blame Melanque for being worried about FL, I am a tiny bit, but FL RCE is a bit ridiculous and feels more like scum trying to paranoia a power townbloc than reasoinable town paranoia. I think that's pretty much all there is to get out of the iso.

Pedit: I mean it clearly makes FL telling SS that Mastina was a mason probably irrelevant. SS could be scum here but I don't think pr hunting a mason makes sense anyway.

[itlepip]

Spoiler: Interesting Avengers posts

Oversoul slot town, like skellen town, pb mason, mastina looks more or less like town mastina but might wait a bit more there for me

Widow had friendship hydra as town but we're still talking there

Hmm, @ss why aren't you voting rn?

-IM

Whatever, that doesn't change things really.

VOTE: RCEnigma

I'm guessing anything "hated" was a Team Rocket pokemon, so Arbok or Koffing are my Gen 1 guesses for the sot.
It also leans towards scum even more so yeah.

I'll read more later I suppose.

- 'Murica, Hellz Yes!

PB
Kat / jibril / S_S
DEB / MariaR / itlepip / Ausuka / Boon
Chemist / Mena / Alch / mastina
gamma
RCE / flip

PB looks pretty solidly town, Kat, jibril, and S_S I'm pretty good for town on based on things I saw in skellen and jibril
Solid range of townleans. I don't think boon pushes me as scum day 1, he pretty much danced around my slot in overkill 2 and EICN at least. Him shitpushing me early is like... every game I have ever played with him when town. Ausuka I think might be outside her scumrange and usually I think my earliest read of Ausuka is the right one.
Chemist/Mena/Alch/mastina null line
Gamma slight leanscum
Flip / RCE are both feeling scum to me. Flip feeding into one of Boon's shitpushes when he's under pressure feels like scum flailing. RCE didn't really have a good reaction to our pressure I think.

VOTE: Flips

-IM

hehe

[itlepip]

WAIT

Sky did you delete my post

wtf.

[itlepip]

oh nvm, I see what you did

[itlepip]

Oversoul slot town, like skellen town, pb mason, mastina looks more or less like town mastina but might wait a bit more there for me

Widow had friendship hydra as town but we're still talking there

Hmm, @ss why aren't you voting rn?

-IM

Whatever, that doesn't change things really.

VOTE: RCEnigma

I'm guessing anything "hated" was a Team Rocket pokemon, so Arbok or Koffing are my Gen 1 guesses for the sot.
It also leans towards scum even more so yeah.

I'll read more later I suppose.

- 'Murica, Hellz Yes!

PB
Kat / jibril / S_S
DEB / MariaR / itlepip / Ausuka / Boon
Chemist / Mena / Alch / mastina
gamma
RCE / flip

PB looks pretty solidly town, Kat, jibril, and S_S I'm pretty good for town on based on things I saw in skellen and jibril
Solid range of townleans. I don't think boon pushes me as scum day 1, he pretty much danced around my slot in overkill 2 and EICN at least. Him shitpushing me early is like... every game I have ever played with him when town. Ausuka I think might be outside her scumrange and usually I think my earliest read of Ausuka is the right one.
Chemist/Mena/Alch/mastina null line
Gamma slight leanscum
Flip / RCE are both feeling scum to me. Flip feeding into one of Boon's shitpushes when he's under pressure feels like scum flailing. RCE didn't really have a good reaction to our pressure I think.

VOTE: Flips

-IM

oh shit, my bad.

[itlepip]

Yeah it doesn't mean much, but my wagon is much scummier than Menalque's :P.

VOTE: DEB[\v], getting more convinced this is scum, cause apparently people aren't up for lynching GE yet (also really sad, was gunna fake claim tracker or something then get some junky claim from GE then shoot him, woulda been great, I wouldn't ever be mislynched, we would be down a scum and still have a lynch 10/10 scummies level play).

Also this argument is complicated, and probably someone else should make it, but this is a very very bad place for scum to hard bus since its pretty unlikely that both me and Menalque could both be scum here (we could both be town thought, which would be very unfortunate), so getting a flip, especially without any strong PR flips yet, is basically game for scum.

[itlepip]

VOTE: DEB

[itlepip]

That question implies me knowing that itle is scum, I can't answer without a flip. If you're asking about my reads, then yes, I think DEB could be bussing 'cause he's a chaotic evil. But FL and RCE are both town and so is Alch so I think that the most likely conclusion is that the remaining scumteam is not voting right now to see where they can go with this wagons, since town is driving a mislynch all by themselves.

Doesn't this imply that I am town here?

[itlepip]

Also PB if you are willing to vote Gamma with me, then I'll switch, otherwise this is next likely scum.

[itlepip]

Just none of them stuck in my memory, sorry that was a bit harsh, although you are hard pushing a mislynch with isn't nice :c

Cause you are telling everyone to vote me, gosh

[itlepip]

VOTE: DEB

For great justice.

OH MY GOD SS CONGRATULATIONS YOUR FIRST VOTE IN THE WHOLE GAME THIS IS HUGE

Okay this is hilarious, I really hope SS is actually like a triple voter or something.

[itlepip]

VOTE: DEB

Lol exactly what my paranoia was expecting

Why did you expect this?

Also basically I reread your iso and you have played well, its just hard to figure that out without isoing you and I didn't have time, please don't be salty about that comment, I don't like when my strong townreads scum read me it makes the game much harder.

[itlepip]

Oh, I 100% don't blame you for that, my votes this game have been hot garbage. Pretty sure I stopped a d1 lynch on Avengers to lynch flippy cause I thought Skitt was super town... at least I've had consistently bad reads.

Also no worries, Menalque got under my skin way earlier in the game, you thinking I'm scum is always frustrating cause the point of the game is to not be scumread but I can't say I blame you.

[itlepip]

Can someone who townreads Gamma please explain why?

[itlepip]

PB I mean I personally think its better for scum to try to townbloc with townies than hard bus each other because even a 2v8 where scum is leading town is hard for scum with a bunch of pr results. As scum here I am doing whatever I can to survive, then probably claiming invest either today or tomorrow to try to either sneak away with 2 MLs or get a bunch of MLs.

Speaking of which I'm really shocked we didn't see a doc kill in the night. If they are both real scum almost certainly shoot there unless they have a bunch of Strongmen or something, and if they aren't if town doesn't lynch there (which I don't think we should ftr) they probably have to tomorrow night anyways since a doc save is a really big deal. Alchemist is obviously the better claim (although the I got roleblocked is a pretty neat play), so the reasonable solution is that MariaR is also caught scum (who we shouldn't lynch yet but still). That furthers my theory that scum need to force out MLs, even if they look bad otherwise they just don't have enough numbers.

[itlepip]

Also I agree that single votecount VCA is pretty useless in these sorts of games. That said it isn't useless, and when combined with vote progression stuff I think there are some good results there.

[itlepip]

Spoiler: DEB's Avenger's 'progression'

I've been slammed today with math work so I just popped in when the deadline was up to vote Menalque. I still despise his whole "pure" thing from yesterday. I'm here now, I'm fine with an Avengers thing too, only scum account slips like Nancy Drew.
VOTE: Avengers

I've been slammed today with math work so I just popped in when the deadline was up to vote Menalque. I still despise his whole "pure" thing from yesterday. I'm here now, I'm fine with an Avengers thing too, only scum account slips like Nancy Drew.
VOTE: Avengers

Explain this.

I have said my piece. Only scum posts on the wrong account. Speaking from the one time I did it as scum.

VOTE: Menalque

He was setting up a mislynch chain.

Look at how he was with my slot. He was town reading me to the point where I was paranoid, which i have brought up.

He then goes to say that the debate between DEB and I was NAI.

He then starts to bring up the possibility of us being SvS, the mislynch chain.

This is after his apparent unknown strong town read on my slot followed by stating he thought the discussion was NAI.

This is a strong inconsistency.

BOOM BABY
or should I say...
BOON BABY
VOTE: Menalque

VOTE: MariaR

VOTE: Avengers

L-1

What you talking about

Avengers got lynched because of me, I spent the entire Day 2 saying menalque and avengers were scum.

Y’all bitches lynched obvtown flippyNips when I told you he was town and voting avengers.

Actually, this gains merit tothere potentially being more scum than normal on Flippy because Avengers was the counterwagon, and scum are obviously going to try to protect them Day 1.

You set up the ball, I spiked it. The Avengers wagon was slowing down at L-2. I brought us over the finish line, I scored the winning run, I got us into the end zone, I made downward pressure on the ball to score the winning try.
I ain’t no bitch, bitch.
BTW it’s like Nips’ meta now to get himself killed D1 no matter what.
I can still easily go for a Menalque lynch.

I think there are votes on the Avengers wagon that if they were scum represent true hard bussing. This 100% is not that, as scum its moving on a wagon for credit, as town its derp sheeping, but either way the hard bussing pool of FL, RCE, PB, mastina, jbril (and don't remember asuka or GE's progression well enough) definitely doesn't include DEB. DEB is not nearly a good enough player to start a reasonable counterwagon to an L-2 wagon being hard pushed, so he either is on the wagon when it hits scum or hopes someone else starts one later, but DEB being on the wagon is much safer since 95% of the time just empty voting someone to L-1 doesn't who is going to be lynched that day.

[itlepip]

Also how much longer will it take to cure this?

[itlepip]

DEB is not nearly a good enough player

This fool tryna start a fight.

Do you think you could have stopped the avengers wagon if you wanted to? That sort of thing is really hard, especially with the players who were already on that wagon

[itlepip]

Also how much longer will it take to cure this?

?

Just to cure it cause I can’t ignore if its love love

[itlepip]

Also how much longer will it take to cure this?

?

Just to cure it cause I can’t ignore if its love love

[itlepip]

Probably means we’re wrong somewhere

Yes, on me

Also maybe on itlepip

Idk, if debs is happening I’d rather do that but I’ll do itle over me

Be the change you want in the world, vote DEB!

[itlepip]

Pb if you really think you are the shot to at least wifom the kill by asking for a doc save. I really doubt you would be the shot here anyways. There might be a scumteam that shoots you but you would probably wouldn’t be in my shoot list here.

[itlepip]

VOTE: itlepip

L-2

not gonna be here again tonight but itle isn’t towny and their push on DEB was meh

Do you think DEB is town here? Like I don't think my case was convincing, it was more to refute DEB trying to get credit for killing avengers. I can make a case if people want although I think isoing DEB and avengers should be enough.

Also I've definitely been rusty this game, but outside of VCA arguments I don't see how I've not been towny... I liked my wagon more before town started joining it

[itlepip]

Melanque is voting me opportunistically, pretty convinced DEB and GE are scum so its really just you and jbril.

[itlepip]

I am (not a mason FL, come on) a Tangorb :| (why the fuck...), I can "explode" if its hot weather in order to kill both myself and someone else. I think I may have mildly hinted at it at one point, but I mainly was really excited to use it to fake a guilty and then literally blow the game up later in the game, although clearly that isn't going to happen at this point (yay VT).

I did a while ago

[itlepip]

Do you think Jibril is cleared by the hammer early in the day? I've been playing that way but if all 3 scum were on Melanque the optics of that were probably important (also DEB is such blatant scum, I'm not that mad I'm getting lynched but pretty annoyed its before him)

[itlepip]

I guess if you are convinced MariaR is town this argument is less strong, but I think Alchemist's claim was a pretty towny move. Like for scum to counterclaim a doc and then rescind the 1v1 when they realize their mechanics are the same is an impressive play from scum.

pedit: thanks :)

VOTE: Menal, 1/2 convinced by Ausuka, 1/2 I want to livvvvvveeeee

[itlepip]

Oh shit, wow apparently I can't read. Also I like 90% agree that both of you are town, but the other 10% feels like scum would have killed a doctor last night if there were 2 real doc claims. I mean unless they have a bunch of strongman shots, which doesn't make much sense flavor wise, if I was an invest here I could claim it and still get multiple more investigations. That is really scary for scum.

[itlepip]

the other 10% feels like scum would have killed a doctor last night if there were 2 real doc claims. I mean unless they have a bunch of strongman shots

I think a single strongman shot is enough to justify it tbh. Two-shot docs in a large aren't going to be targeting unclaimed players. As long as they have the means to take out someone important after they claim, the docs are probably not that much of a threat to them.

If Maria is real then its probably because scum have a role blocker, so things make more sense that way. Also @Menalque, if you were a 2 shot doc would your protect a possible mason claim?

[itlepip]

Lol, DEB even if you do get me killed here, when I flip there is noo way you aren't instantly getting lynched

Spoiler: Ignore british faces

[gifv]https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http ... ow.gif&f=1[/gifv]

[itlepip]

Outside of a soft or hard claiming something I can't imagine how scum would stop that lynch.

[itlepip]

I do think its possible that one scum was on the wagon early (guess who I think that is, I promise I am trying to not just confbias) and just didn't have time to get off/didn't think getting off of it would look good.

Pedit: I really would much prefer a DEB lynch today, I've never played with Menalque before so have no clue what his meta/range is, but it seems plausible that this is just someone trying to be confident, since in mafia usually most of your confidence about your reads is fabricated anyways.

[itlepip]

So I think it’s a lot easier trying to interact with people you’ve played with before, yes. Like I said, that’s an error of overconfidence from me as I’ve only got 1 game with her, but I would expect reads to get better the more you play with someone. So yes, I would still be marginally more confident trying to read a good scum player who I’d played with multiple times than a competent player I had never played with before not considered great as scum

But like you haven't even seen her scumgame yet, and when you said that Skitter was a good scum player and that's why you misread her, you didn't seem at all surprised that she defied your expectations after one game. Tbh this thing about being confident on reading her after one game with her feels too convenient for this situation as I think it's, like, the only explanation scum!you can really give here.

@Itle: I don't think that applies here since we're talking about Menal's relative confidence at reading different people and if he's just overconfident he should be confident enough to read the other three as well. I do think that the other players in the hydra were very scummy and I'm confused by any attempt to ignore them.

That I agree with. I thought Skitt was super towny and the rest of the hydra (esp Nancy) were being very scummy, and I think that was a pretty obvious read, though I have learned to be way more wary of skitt

[itlepip]

I was starting to come around to avengers being scum, but I was reading/playing seriously enough to feel confident enough to move my reads.

[itlepip]

What post counts as a case to you? I reread the iso cause I don't remember that and couldn't really find anything. Avengers did start talking a lot to me near the end, maybe cause I was very waffely on their slot and they didn't want me to jump on the wagon? I would assume avengers was still in survival mode there so it must have been to try not to get lynched, although avengers really didn't do anything to not get lynched.

[itlepip]

The mafia planning committee did not order the lynch of the avengers, instead it was done by a grassroots organization.

[itlepip]

Well that's my point. Skitter tried to get townread by defending against the scumreads on the Hydra as a whole. But right before their lunch started pushing on you as fencesitting and it was really the only substantial mention of your slot by them.

Which makes it seem like they wanted to wifom your slot pending their flip.

Sure but I don't think I was an obvious next lynch target today (although I am getting lynched right now so what do I know). I feel like if me and avengers were scum and we wanted to distance I wouldn't have been waffling on the slot right before the lynch though. Like it wasn't even a case, it was just complaining about me being a waffle (waffles are delicious so it wasn't even an insult), so even if people took it at face value I can't imagine anyone looking at those posts and being like "well this could never be scum on scum".

[itlepip]

Honestly I'm usually good at reading SS (at least in person), and I've really got nothing on that slot from the past few days. I think he is definitely within his scum range and wouldn't mind lynching him later on if I surivive. That said I think there are much more obviously scummy players so I don't think its a prioirty. It would be a super good cop check if we have one of those (I also would be :D, save me cop :))

[itlepip]

Lol, DEB even if you do get me killed here, when I flip there is noo way you aren't instantly getting lynched

Spoiler: Ignore british faces

[gifv]Why would I do that? Figure out the gif from the link, properly embedding gifs is for scrubs :P. Seriously though how do you do that?[/gifv]

Learn how to gif properly.

[itlepip]

Yeah well that's kinda his playstyle :P

[itlepip]

Can we please lynch DEB?

[itlepip]

PB why do you think I'm scum here?

[itlepip]

VOTE: DEB

[itlepip]

We should be dealing with this triangle of claims between Ausuka, Maria, and Menalque. I feel like there’s just gotta be scum in there somewhere with Menalque making the most sense.

Why? Like I think Menalque could be scum here, but I don't see why there has to be 1 scum in that 3?

[itlepip]

2 doc claims and a rb claiming to have stopped one doc that just happened to have attempted to stop the NK is a pretty big coincidence to be all Town imo.

Well unless Maria and Menalque are scum together, Menalque almost certainly roleblocked maria that night. I feel like the question is less whether or not Menalque is a rber, but whether rb is more likely town or mafia.

[itlepip]

Which is why I'm voting DEB, more people should do it, I find it very fulfiilling

[itlepip]

Look DEB, I'm trying to get you lynched instead of me so when you flip scum I get towncred. I think its a pretty good strategy that has worked well in the past, although it isn't always easy. Your options are either convince me you are town or convince other people to mislynch me, but either way I don't care where you vote.

[itlepip]

I think for the record there is a bit of overlap, in that both stop NKs, although with the hp mechanic 2 docs and an RB are plausible.

[itlepip]

I don't know anything about balance but it sounds weird, like we have only 3/4 claims and they're all related c'mon there's something weird going on

If this means anything at all...

...it means that FL is scum.

Dead serious on that.

Please please please show your work here, I don't understand how that could be even slightly follow from premise a to premise b

[itlepip]

Wait Oversoul can do that sort of post as scum, that's insane.

So the question is, are DGB and kuribo actually watching the game with scum, or did Oversoul make that up?

[itlepip]

Okay a). Those quotes are me being frustated DEB wasn't playing. People didn't like me being sad DEB wasn't vigged, but it clearly wasn't an actual scumread until today.

B). Those are things that happened in the game, there is no point in lying about them. It's only casing if you think those things happen more often from scumme than townme. Like we can talk about scum strategy and how good protecting your partners are etc, but pointing out that I misread avengers pretty badly is unobjectable.

[itlepip]

Chemist, can you explain why Maria is scum?

[itlepip]

The fact that I don't hard scumread Boon after he's made 400 posts ought to suggest that he's town...

...but I townread literally every player other than him :shifty:

SS, can you explain your townreads on DEB, Melanque, Jbril, Maria and me? Those aren't exactly my scumreads but interested in how all of those are town to you.

[itlepip]

986 is awfully blunt for scum.
Menalque's posts read as natural and unforced.
Oversoul's claim and replace-out were towny.
Maria usually puts more effort in as scum, and her claim and interaction with Ausuka seemed legit, and Katyusha who was townreading her died.
Your claim would be a weird-ass thing for scum to claim, and iirc you softed it way back so you would have been preparing it for a while.

986 is decent but not enough to clear a slot. Oversoul/jbril I need to reread.

Also I'm sorry FL

[itlepip]

Not 100% on you being town, but honestly either way don't like that vote from SS.


I mean the question is whether scum is inactive because they are bored or as a strategic move. Like I really liked Ausuka's push, even though I'm not yet sold enough to vote that slot. (Also Oversoul being town was my only good early game read and don't want to poop it out this quickly).

[itlepip]

Mod could have given it as a fakeclaim?

[itlepip]

PB, I read you iso a little bit and your vote progression makes absolutely 0 sense, can you please explain what has been going through your head?