Chennisden's mini normal review, July 2019


Forum rules
User avatar
implosion
implosion
he/him
Polymath
User avatar
User avatar
implosion
he/him
Polymath
Polymath
Posts: 13497
Joined: September 9, 2010
Pronoun: he/him
Location: zoraster's wine cellar

Chennisden's mini normal review, July 2019

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:10 am

Post by implosion »

chennisden wrote:TOWN:

5 VT
1 Announcing Doctor
1 Announcing 1-Shot Cop

SCUM:

1 Goon
1 Loud Rolecop

The Goon will be provided a fakeclaim of 1 Shot Tracker. I'll send the role PMs shortly, and I don't have a rules setup ready yet.
implosion wrote:There is no formal mechanism for giving scum fakeclaims in normal games, though you could do something like an informed goon who is told that there is no 1-shot tracker in the game and is therefore basically given it as a fakeclaim.

I'll set up the review thread.
chennisden wrote:
Spoiler: Role PMs:
Vanilla TownieWelcome!

You are a
Vanilla Townie
.

You have no special abilities.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.


The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.


Announcing One-Shot Town CopYou are an
Announcing One-Shot Town Cop
.

You may target one player during one night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed if they are
Town
or
Mafia
. In addition, they will be informed that they have been copped, but not by who. If you are roleblocked, you will receive no result.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.


The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.


Town DoctorWelcome!

You are an
Announcing Town Doctor
.

You may target one player per night phase. This player will be protected from kills during that night phase. In addition, they will be informed that they have been protected, but not by who. You cannot target yourself.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.


The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.


Informed Mafia GoonWelcome!

You are an
Informed Mafia Goon
.

You have been informed that there is no
Town Tracker
of any form.

You and your partner share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.


The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.


Loud Mafia RolecopWelcome!

You are a
Loud Mafia Rolecop
.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed of their role but not their alignment.
Vanilla Townies
and
Mafia Goons
will both return "Vanilla". In addition, they will be informed that you have targeted them with a night action, but not what night action. If you are roleblocked, you will receive no result.

You and your partner share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You may commit the kill and perform a role cop in the same night phase. You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.


The game thread is here.
Last edited by implosion on Fri May 08, 2020 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
implosion
implosion
he/him
Polymath
User avatar
User avatar
implosion
he/him
Polymath
Polymath
Posts: 13497
Joined: September 9, 2010
Pronoun: he/him
Location: zoraster's wine cellar

Post Post #1 (ISO) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:10 am

Post by implosion »

Primary: RadiantCowbells
Secondary: callforjudgement
User avatar
chennisden
chennisden
Macho Pichu
User avatar
User avatar
chennisden
Macho Pichu
Macho Pichu
Posts: 8907
Joined: February 11, 2019
Location: sheltered in place

Post Post #2 (ISO) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:13 am

Post by chennisden »

I did a goof up

I meant Loud Tracker not one shot tracker, obviously. One shot would be a stupid fakeclaim
User avatar
callforjudgement
callforjudgement
Microprocessor
User avatar
User avatar
callforjudgement
Microprocessor
Microprocessor
Posts: 3972
Joined: September 1, 2011

Post Post #3 (ISO) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:31 am

Post by callforjudgement »

Fakeclaims aren't Normal (basically because they're a modWIFOM rather than direct way of giving information about the setup; the Normal alternative is to give the information directly with a role like Informed).

The balance of the setup seems like it's in the right space, anyway. Town are particularly likely to try Follow the Cop (because the Cop will probably claim D2) but in this particular setup, they gain neither an advantage nor a disadvantage from doing so, so it doesn't really matter.

I'd have no problem with this setup if the fakeclaim were removed. I'd recommend against trying to replicate the fakeclaim with Normal mechanics, as scum have easily enough information without it and telling them that there isn't a tracker (or similar) is more likely to guide them into an inappropriate fakeclaim than it is to help. (That said, although I'd
hope
scum would be smart enough to fakeclaim the Rolecop as a different role, I suspect that many scum actually wouldn't do this in practice. At some point I'm going to have to find time and mental energy to write a Mafia Discussion article on how to fakeclaim as scum.)
scum
· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·
town
User avatar
chennisden
chennisden
Macho Pichu
User avatar
User avatar
chennisden
Macho Pichu
Macho Pichu
Posts: 8907
Joined: February 11, 2019
Location: sheltered in place

Post Post #4 (ISO) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:32 am

Post by chennisden »

Alright

Then I'll kill the fakeclaim (get rid of the informed)
User avatar
chennisden
chennisden
Macho Pichu
User avatar
User avatar
chennisden
Macho Pichu
Macho Pichu
Posts: 8907
Joined: February 11, 2019
Location: sheltered in place

Post Post #5 (ISO) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:29 pm

Post by chennisden »

TOWN:

5 VT
1 Announcing Doctor
1 Announcing 1-Shot Cop

SCUM:

1 Goon
1 Loud Rolecop

Spoiler: Role PMs:
Vanilla TownieWelcome!

You are a
Vanilla Townie
.

You have no special abilities.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.


The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.


Announcing One-Shot Town CopYou are an
Announcing One-Shot Town Cop
.

You may target one player during one night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed if they are
Town
or
Mafia
. In addition, they will be informed that they have been copped, but not by who. If you are roleblocked, you will receive no result.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.


The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.


Town DoctorWelcome!

You are an
Announcing Town Doctor
.

You may target one player per night phase. This player will be protected from kills during that night phase. In addition, they will be informed that they have been protected, but not by who. You cannot target yourself.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.


The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.


Informed Mafia GoonWelcome!

You are an
Mafia Goon
.

You and your partner share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.


The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.


Loud Mafia RolecopWelcome!

You are a
Loud Mafia Rolecop
.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed of their role but not their alignment.
Vanilla Townies
and
Mafia Goons
will both return "Vanilla". In addition, they will be informed that you have targeted them with a night action, but not what night action. If you are roleblocked, you will receive no result.

You and your partner share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You may commit the kill and perform a role cop in the same night phase. You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.


The game thread is here.
User avatar
RadiantCowbells
RadiantCowbells
Smooth Criminal
User avatar
User avatar
RadiantCowbells
Smooth Criminal
Smooth Criminal
Posts: 70566
Joined: February 24, 2013
Contact:

Post Post #6 (ISO) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:59 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

I could potentially pass as is.

Give me till tomorrow
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
User avatar
callforjudgement
callforjudgement
Microprocessor
User avatar
User avatar
callforjudgement
Microprocessor
Microprocessor
Posts: 3972
Joined: September 1, 2011

Post Post #7 (ISO) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:11 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

On a side note: have we standardised what Announcing actually does yet? I don't think it even has a wiki page.

I don't think it matters for balance, but there's a distinction between "You were targeted by an investigative action" and "You were targeted by a Cop action".
scum
· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·
town
User avatar
chennisden
chennisden
Macho Pichu
User avatar
User avatar
chennisden
Macho Pichu
Macho Pichu
Posts: 8907
Joined: February 11, 2019
Location: sheltered in place

Post Post #8 (ISO) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:14 pm

Post by chennisden »

Darn I don't think we have.

I'd be inclined to lean towards the former because I feel like that gives more depth to the game?
User avatar
implosion
implosion
he/him
Polymath
User avatar
User avatar
implosion
he/him
Polymath
Polymath
Posts: 13497
Joined: September 9, 2010
Pronoun: he/him
Location: zoraster's wine cellar

Post Post #9 (ISO) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:18 pm

Post by implosion »

It's formalized:
In post 194, implosion wrote:
Announcing:
When acting, whatever player you target will be informed that your role targeted them. For instance, if an announcing doctor targeted player X, player X would receive a message saying "You were targeted by a doctor ability during the night". It should not explicitly state the entire role, only the ability that was used (so the message shouldn't be "you were targeted by an announcing doctor"). If an announcing mafia made a kill and their target survived, the target would be told "You were targeted by the mafia kill during the night". This is a direct complement to the existing Loud, which informs a player of a player that targeted them, but not what role.
Anything said in that thread is gospel and should be added to the wiki, either by me (but i basically never get around to it) or by anyone who has the time/skillset to do so :p
User avatar
chennisden
chennisden
Macho Pichu
User avatar
User avatar
chennisden
Macho Pichu
Macho Pichu
Posts: 8907
Joined: February 11, 2019
Location: sheltered in place

Post Post #10 (ISO) » Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:30 am

Post by chennisden »

User avatar
RadiantCowbells
RadiantCowbells
Smooth Criminal
User avatar
User avatar
RadiantCowbells
Smooth Criminal
Smooth Criminal
Posts: 70566
Joined: February 24, 2013
Contact:

Post Post #11 (ISO) » Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:34 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

I feel like the rolecop should be announcing instead of loud? Idk.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
User avatar
chennisden
chennisden
Macho Pichu
User avatar
User avatar
chennisden
Macho Pichu
Macho Pichu
Posts: 8907
Joined: February 11, 2019
Location: sheltered in place

Post Post #12 (ISO) » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:16 am

Post by chennisden »

I dunno

I think I like loud because it gives scum room for a spicy fake claim

and if you get rolecopped you can just say "I was rolecopped so I can claim that I'm a VT/Cop/Doctor/whatever!!"
User avatar
chennisden
chennisden
Macho Pichu
User avatar
User avatar
chennisden
Macho Pichu
Macho Pichu
Posts: 8907
Joined: February 11, 2019
Location: sheltered in place

Post Post #13 (ISO) » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:16 am

Post by chennisden »

It gives town a lot of room to prepare for scum's actions and force them down a path too early? idk
User avatar
callforjudgement
callforjudgement
Microprocessor
User avatar
User avatar
callforjudgement
Microprocessor
Microprocessor
Posts: 3972
Joined: September 1, 2011

Post Post #14 (ISO) » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:29 am

Post by callforjudgement »

I think the only issue with Loud is if town use it to modWIFOM the setup. It's more interesting than Announcing in scum hands. The main problem is if town deduce that.

You could perhaps remove the Announcing modifier from the Doctor? That would hurt town, but I don't think it's directly important for balance purposes, its only real use for town is making the setup easier to predict.
scum
· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·
town
User avatar
chennisden
chennisden
Macho Pichu
User avatar
User avatar
chennisden
Macho Pichu
Macho Pichu
Posts: 8907
Joined: February 11, 2019
Location: sheltered in place

Post Post #15 (ISO) » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:33 am

Post by chennisden »

I could remove it for the cop instead

I think that'd be
maybe
better, but if we remove all the loud/announcing stuff this is definitely scumsided so I'm not sure if it's even an issue or not

If I added a Mafia doctor or something maybe it'd be mod wifom? But the strong roles already have credibility and I don't think there's a lot for Mafia to claim
User avatar
chennisden
chennisden
Macho Pichu
User avatar
User avatar
chennisden
Macho Pichu
Macho Pichu
Posts: 8907
Joined: February 11, 2019
Location: sheltered in place

Post Post #16 (ISO) » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:38 am

Post by chennisden »

I think loud tracker+announcing doc+one shot announcing cop vs roleblocker+whatever weakish scum pr scum want to claim is a believable narrative.

If it's unbalanced in the favor of town I could remove the announcing on cop.
User avatar
RadiantCowbells
RadiantCowbells
Smooth Criminal
User avatar
User avatar
RadiantCowbells
Smooth Criminal
Smooth Criminal
Posts: 70566
Joined: February 24, 2013
Contact:

Post Post #17 (ISO) » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:38 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

Loud tells you who targeted you, not what role. And if town (and it's not hard) deduces that the doc and cop are the only PRs, it's essentially a guilty.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
User avatar
chennisden
chennisden
Macho Pichu
User avatar
User avatar
chennisden
Macho Pichu
Macho Pichu
Posts: 8907
Joined: February 11, 2019
Location: sheltered in place

Post Post #18 (ISO) » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:40 am

Post by chennisden »

Mavbe make doc loud then
User avatar
chennisden
chennisden
Macho Pichu
User avatar
User avatar
chennisden
Macho Pichu
Macho Pichu
Posts: 8907
Joined: February 11, 2019
Location: sheltered in place

Post Post #19 (ISO) » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:41 am

Post by chennisden »

Or make the rolecop a fruit vendor as well
User avatar
chennisden
chennisden
Macho Pichu
User avatar
User avatar
chennisden
Macho Pichu
Macho Pichu
Posts: 8907
Joined: February 11, 2019
Location: sheltered in place

Post Post #20 (ISO) » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:41 am

Post by chennisden »

(and remove loud)
User avatar
RadiantCowbells
RadiantCowbells
Smooth Criminal
User avatar
User avatar
RadiantCowbells
Smooth Criminal
Smooth Criminal
Posts: 70566
Joined: February 24, 2013
Contact:

Post Post #21 (ISO) » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:42 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

i would be fine with

combiend fruit vendor rolecop, sure.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
User avatar
callforjudgement
callforjudgement
Microprocessor
User avatar
User avatar
callforjudgement
Microprocessor
Microprocessor
Posts: 3972
Joined: September 1, 2011

Post Post #22 (ISO) » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:43 am

Post by callforjudgement »

In post 15, chennisden wrote:I could remove it for the cop instead

I think that'd be
maybe
better, but if we remove all the loud/announcing stuff this is definitely scumsided so I'm not sure if it's even an issue or not

If I added a Mafia doctor or something maybe it'd be mod wifom? But the strong roles already have credibility and I don't think there's a lot for Mafia to claim
I think Announcing on the Cop actually helps scum to some extent. It lets town know that there's a Cop in the setup when it gets an inno, but more importantly, if it gets a guilty, the scum will know there's a guilty on them and be able to adapt accordingly.
scum
· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·
town
User avatar
chennisden
chennisden
Macho Pichu
User avatar
User avatar
chennisden
Macho Pichu
Macho Pichu
Posts: 8907
Joined: February 11, 2019
Location: sheltered in place

Post Post #23 (ISO) » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:52 am

Post by chennisden »

okay

change loud rolecop to combined fruit vendor rolecop

i'll change the PMs

i think this is good because the setup is still hilarious in the way i intended it
User avatar
chennisden
chennisden
Macho Pichu
User avatar
User avatar
chennisden
Macho Pichu
Macho Pichu
Posts: 8907
Joined: February 11, 2019
Location: sheltered in place

Post Post #24 (ISO) » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:57 am

Post by chennisden »

TOWN:

5 VT
1 Announcing Doctor
1 Announcing 1-Shot Cop

SCUM:

1 Goon
1 Combined Fruit-Vendor Rolecop

Spoiler: Role PMs:
Vanilla TownieWelcome!

You are a
Vanilla Townie
.

You have no special abilities.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.


The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.


Announcing One-Shot Town CopYou are an
Announcing One-Shot Town Cop
.

You may target one player during one night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed if they are
Town
or
Mafia
. In addition, they will be informed that they have been copped, but not by who. If you are roleblocked, you will receive no result.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.


The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.


Town DoctorWelcome!

You are an
Announcing Town Doctor
.

You may target one player per night phase. This player will be protected from kills during that night phase. In addition, they will be informed that they have been protected, but not by who. You cannot target yourself.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.


The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.


Mafia GoonWelcome!

You are an
Mafia Goon
.

You and your partner share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.


The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.


Loud Mafia RolecopWelcome!

You are a
Combined Fruit-Vendor Mafia Rolecop
.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed of their role but not their alignment.
Vanilla Townies
and
Mafia Goons
will both return "Vanilla". In addition, you will give them a fruit. Your target will not be informed who gave them the fruit, and the fruit does nothing. If you are roleblocked, you will receive no result.

You and your partner share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You may commit the kill and perform a role cop in the same night phase. You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.


The game thread is here.
Post Reply