Mini 2091: The Purge - Game Over!

[Carl Tuckerson]

Whole lotta posting not a whole lotta voting

I do not love it my peeps

VOTE: Menalque

[Carl Tuckerson]

Votes are to determine who has no night actions tonight, yeah?
I'm trying to figure out the ramifications of the fact that you're not actually killing the person you're voting for, necessarily (though presumably anybody who earns a majority vote to be stranded will get shot by someone).
Of course voting a mafia is ideal, but beyond that is it right to publicly state your suspicions or just put someone up that you don't want to commit night actions and then shoot somebody you actually suspect, so they won't barricade?

[Carl Tuckerson]

Votes are to determine who has no night actions tonight, yeah?
I'm trying to figure out the ramifications of the fact that you're not actually killing the person you're voting for, necessarily (though presumably anybody who earns a majority vote to be stranded will get shot by someone).
Of course voting a mafia is ideal, but beyond that is it right to publicly state your suspicions or just put someone up that you don't want to commit night actions and then shoot somebody you actually suspect, so they won't barricade?

At 13-3, the less maverick we all play with our guns the better? Yes? That's like getting a day lynch and a night lynch, and we only lose a max of three people per night? Not that I don't realise Euguf already said that...

10-3 yeah? Unless I misread the setup.

I heard that the last group was not quite as disciplined with their fire. Problem is, how do you get people not to shoot their suspects?

[Carl Tuckerson]

I really don’t like the fact that votes don’t remove someone from the game. :/

Well, we're here now. Got to make the best of it.
Presumably they

de facto

remove someone from the game, since if someone got a majority of players to agree that that player shouldn't get to take a night action, one of those voters will just shoot him.

[Carl Tuckerson]

I really don’t like the fact that votes don’t remove someone from the game. :/

Why?

Essentially force someone to waste their shot on a specific player. Plus, strongman is going to mess with my mind on who is cleared or not.

Can you elaborate on this idea for me? How would someone end up cleared?

[Carl Tuckerson]

4 pages overnight isn't bad.

Dare I call it slow?

VOTE: Icon

He knows why.

Oh boy, here we go.

[Carl Tuckerson]

VOTE: emps

I saw this guy mechanically solve a game before, he doesn't need night actions cuz he can just tell us what to do with ours. Ez

[Carl Tuckerson]

Do we even get punished for no-"lynching" in this format? Aside from the fact that it means we didn't lock down a mafia's night actions.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Do we even get punished for no-"lynching" in this format? Aside from the fact that it means we didn't lock down a mafia's night actions.

Surely we do, yes? Any sort of random action works against town. So a missed lynch favours mafia? Random shooting is even worse?

I don't get what you're saying here, walk me through it.
No "lynching" here means that we aren't depriving anybody of night actions. The main logic to lynching on d1 is not that town is likely to hit mafia on day 1 (they aren't) but that the flip is worth the likelihood of hitting town. That doesn't hold in this game because a "lynch" doesn't give us a flip. If we think we're unlikely to strand the mafia then isn't it better to strand no one than to take a ~70% chance of stranding town?

[Carl Tuckerson]

I see no way to publicly clear anyone based on night actions. Due to the nature of the setup, any other random person may have taken the shot.

Yeah I don’t know what I was thinking

We can treat our shots like pseudo-trackers. Hear me out:
- let's pretend everyone not mentioned in this scenario barricades.
- town A dies (barricades)
- Scum B shot town A.
- town C shot person D (who barricades)

If we trust C when they tell us they shot D but D didn't die, we know that D isn't the strongman.

This method gets way muddier when we factor in people lying about their targets and such. I'm not sure if it'll be super helpful right away, but we should truthfully report our night actions on the subsequent day.

When/if people flip town, the survivors can look back at the night reports and piece together hints. It'd be like pieceing together a bunch of "not-rules" in a logic game.

I am skeptical of the ability to rig scenarios to get information, but I agree that if we're truthfully reporting our night actions, we should be able to logick out a high-% solution.

[Carl Tuckerson]

EP is making sense to me? Is there any reason why this isnt a good idea?

The main issue I see is that rigging barricades and shooters tells scum who they can shoot, letting them get three kills instead of two. They have plausible deniability by claiming barricaded. That does narrow things down to some extent (you shoot among the previous night's barricades) but it also means we're down an extra guy unnecessarily.

To be fair, Espresso did only set up a partial frame of reference (for 3 towns and one mafia) so maybe I'm just not seeing the whole picture where all 13 people are involved.
Of course I'm interested in a solve like this if we can figure it out.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Do we even get punished for no-"lynching" in this format? Aside from the fact that it means we didn't lock down a mafia's night actions.

Surely we do, yes? Any sort of random action works against town. So a missed lynch favours mafia? Random shooting is even worse?

I don't get what you're saying here, walk me through it.
No "lynching" here means that we aren't depriving anybody of night actions. The main logic to lynching on d1 is not that town is likely to hit mafia on day 1 (they aren't) but that the flip is worth the likelihood of hitting town. That doesn't hold in this game because a "lynch" doesn't give us a flip. If we think we're unlikely to strand the mafia then isn't it better to strand no one than to take a ~70% chance of stranding town?

I think you've convinced me. Someone who has played more will give an opinion. I'm confused about the maths in relation to the flip. Is this right?

I just eyeballed 10/13, it's actually closer to ~76% (9/12 = 75%, 12/15 = 80%). That's assuming a completely random vote, which it won't be, but getting above 50/50 on day 1 is pretty hard (both in my experience and based on what I've seen more experienced players here tell me about this site in particular).
Plus, in a counterintuitive way, it might actually be

good

to let suspicious people have their night actions. They have to do

something

and they have to have reasons for doing that something.

[Carl Tuckerson]

I don’t think the math checks out because it isn’t accounting for masons from first glance.

Lol I forgot there were masons.

I think my point stands but the odds of hitting mafia do get better. Now a random strand hits mafia 3/11 times instead of 3/13, so roughly.......... 70%.
Man I'm good.

[Carl Tuckerson]

You're right, that's back to ~77% to hit town.

Point being, we have a lot of work to do before we're stranding someone who has a reliable shot of being mafia, and in any case I suspect that much like in normal games where lynching town because it yields information is an acceptable price, allowing more night actions than fewer helps us too.

UNVOTE: emps[/vote]
VOTE: PURGE

[Carl Tuckerson]

triggered.

UNVOTE: emps
VOTE: PURGE

[Carl Tuckerson]

I think objectively we should still vote for people because potentially hitting a goon is still better than not even attempting to hit a goon. Even if we hit a random townie, it is still better for town because I’m average people are wrong with their reads anyway.

Why is it better to take away town night actions than not? That's my hangup.

p.edit: I think I want everyone to have their night actions. I can be talked down from that but I want info and we don't get it by stranding people.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Got cockblocked by the site

Because the person we are going to strand is a person we already do not trust, so it doesn’t matter if they die and it definitely matters that they do not shoot. I agree if we are just choosing randomly that isn’t good, but we aren’t.

We could very much lose Day 1. Stranding someone makes that chance less, regardless of alignment.

I agree with the trust bit, and I think it would be constructive to have people place votes and reads as if we were lynching.
However, I'd expect someone who would otherwise be stranded, but is given a chance not to be stranded, would almost always choose to barricade, because some number of the people who failed to strand them

will

come after them. If that would-be stranded is town then in theory I think we're reducing our risk of losing night 1 (or subsequent nights). Stranding someone guarantees that the mafia can kill them if nothing else (although it's not clear to me that they'd actually take them up on the offer).

I like your first argument though, and in any case we have a lot of time to figure it out.

[Carl Tuckerson]

I guess all my meme votes don't count lol.
UNVOTE: Menalque

[Carl Tuckerson]

Dude just because I said some naughty words doesn't mean I'm raging


Go do you a meta dive and then come back after you know where the bar is set

-k

Are you gonna be like this all game? Your answer decides if you live to day 2.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Dude just because I said some naughty words doesn't mean I'm raging


Go do you a meta dive and then come back after you know where the bar is set

-k

Are you gonna be like this all game? Your answer decides if you live to day 2.

???

In my 2nd game on the site, scum decided it made sense to be very combative and unhelpful and bank on people thinking scum would never do that.
In my 3rd game on the site, I replaced out because somebody was being a toxic dickbag. It's ongoing so I can't say more.

As long as I have a gun this game, that shit is not flying with me again. I'm tired of having to deal with people like that in every single game and I'm not afraid to back it up with a bullet.

Ball's in Serene's court.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Dude just because I said some naughty words doesn't mean I'm raging


Go do you a meta dive and then come back after you know where the bar is set

-k

Are you gonna be like this all game? Your answer decides if you live to day 2.

It's so cute you think you have any say in how long I live.

Do you know who I am?

I don't give a fuck who you are, if the answer to my question is "yes" then I'm putting a bullet in you. My tolerance for assholes is zero after the last couple of games I'd had to deal with.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Fish and Iconeum can confirm to you that this is not a stunt and that I take this aspect of the game

very

seriously. In Newbie 1942, we all played together, and we had to work through some very testy times. I only lost my cool with the one guy I referenced before. I can work through many things, I don't have the patience for needless assholery. If someone is going to revel in their reputation for raging then I'm just going to put a round in them and be done with it.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Boring. Guess I know what I'm doing tonight.

Time to catch up on the rest of the thread.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Boring. Guess I know what I'm doing tonight.

Time to catch up on the rest of the thread.

Cross-killin each other bitch, bullet club 4 life


See you in the dead PT homie

Well as long as we understand each other.

Why'd you act like a dick to Gandalf's attempts to solve the game when you townread him?

[Carl Tuckerson]

I

agree

that the setup discussion has been

useful

, and I just noticed this game has only been up

for

1 day, thought it was more for some reason. Been hard for me to formulate any scumreads so far but got a few

classic

townreads on Delta, Egdfu and Gandalf. Delta is the only townread I have based on setup discussion, because the strat they

presented

genuinely seems like it can break the setup and tilt

the

odds in town's favour massively. Eudfg

for

getting started with

some

nice reads, and Gandalf for that nice BBCode self-tutorial and genuinity.

EspressoPatronum: no?

I thought edfug voted you, why are you saying he has nice reads?

[Carl Tuckerson]

Man now I'm in a sour mood

I was having a good ol time


I was being nice


And some dumbass calls me an asshole outta nowhere

Like fuck you on the real man and fuck you, the actual person behind the account for starting shit

I did nothing to you or anyone else, you fuck

You were needlessly dismissive to a guy you were townreading who was trying to solve the game. That's pretty rude to me...

[Carl Tuckerson]

Hey Serene, enlightenment and tranquility are more difficult to achieve when one is full of negative thoughts :^)

[Carl Tuckerson]

Just cause I townread someone's tone and attempt to solve the game doesn't mean I understand the math on a fundamental level or that I have to contribute pointlessly to it


I don't play mafia mathematically, I play it psychologically

If that makes me a dick then I guess I best cum elsewhere

You could also just ignore it instead of putting the guy down. That's what set me off. What's wrong with letting the guy work?

[Carl Tuckerson]

Just cause I townread someone's tone and attempt to solve the game doesn't mean I understand the math on a fundamental level or that I have to contribute pointlessly to it


I don't play mafia mathematically, I play it psychologically

If that makes me a dick then I guess I best cum elsewhere

You could also just ignore it instead of putting the guy down. That's what set me off. What's wrong with letting the guy work?

Who the fuck said he can't? Who the fuck is stopping him?

What constructive purpose does you being rude to him serve?

[Carl Tuckerson]

Bah. I guess I should have just shut up and done the deed at night. I wanted to give you a chance to be off that rage meta you seem to be so proud of. But it's clear I've only made it inevitable.

@Menalque, I'm confused by edfug's vote on Gandalf and Hectic's read on edfug's reads. Hectic said edfug had good reads, but edfug briefly voted Gandalf and claimed the latter had bad intentions behind his confusion re: the game solve gambit, and edfug voted Hectic right before Hectic showed up.
I can give some town reads that I think are pretty obvious but I don't think I have anything really interesting in town reads right now. Hopefully after some clarification from Hectic on his reads I'll have something for you.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Gandalf, EspressoPatronum, Delta Klim. Not really groundbreaking stuff but I liked that their first instinct was to figure out how to break a strange setup, since that's where my head went as well. Setup talk normally doesn't mean much to me, but trying and somewhat succeeding (contingent on catching a mafia first) in breaking a game

does

, because while scum can talk setup shop they're not going to tell the town how they figured out a mechanical solve for town.

[Carl Tuckerson]

I've only slept about two hours in the last two days, imma let DGB deal with y'all for a bit

Makes more sense now. I'll let all this slide. Get some rest for that journey to enlightenment and tranquility lol.

[Carl Tuckerson]

You said you’ve played with icon and Formerfish before

How does former compare to that game based on first impressions?

Not as impressive, but there's an important caveat--he replaced into a slot near the end of a pretty active day 1 where many things had happened, and Iconeum lolhammered within a couple hours or so of his arrival IIRC, so he had a lot more to react to.
He was

very

active, caught out one of the mafia pretty early, got a bit tunneled on Iconeum but overall was solid.
I planned to let those two slide until the weekend was over, since Iconeum would be back by then (he told us in Newbie 1942 that he permanently on V/LA for weekends) and Fish would presumably have enough things to do.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Carl

and

Serene

, I recommend you guys settle this

dispute

with a friendly game of

rock paper scissors

, and then proceed to realise the result doesn't matter and you were good friends

joking

around all along.

Here, I'll count you down:

3
2
1

Please proceed with your hand formation of choice.

Lol nice. But you see, the mod already gave us a way to play a higher-stakes RPS game tonight, and I think we're gonna do that.

Why are you so sure we're friends though? I'm not sure he's town.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Top.

I'd rather let either the other half of Serene take the wheel or let kuribo get some badly needed R&R lol. He's not going to be any use to anybody answering questions like he was.

Hectic, you agree Gandalf is mafia then? edfug is currently voting for Gandalf (I believe I misspoke earlier about this).

[Carl Tuckerson]

Lol fucking destroyed. Worst pagetop effort ever.

I'm not seeing what he and edfug are seeing re: Gandalf, which I'm getting hung up on.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Welcome to the game Hectic! I think the set up and night stat dissucssion has been useful, but I agree with moving on from that a little bit more.
With that said, here are my town leans so far, in no particular order:

[...]

Gandalf - Because I think he seems pretty geuine so far, and if he was mafia I think he would have been getting more help with vote formating and other questions in the mafia day chat rather than having to ask them here.

[...]

It doesn’t matter if you can’t check the exact maths. If you can provide a single scenario in which it wouldn’t work (no maths is required for this) then you are opposing it for a bad reason.
VOTE: Gandalf

Specifically this progression bothers me about edfug so far. I don't see how Gandalf became less genuine or helpful from the former post to the latter post.

[Carl Tuckerson]

No, I mean I agreed with her previous

assessment

of Gandalf's posts feeling like genuine newbie!town. I don't agree with her flip on him and her vote. I think it's unlikely Gandalf is newbie€scum who's against Delta's strat because he realises it's

great

for town, and

bad

for him. He's newbie¥town who simply doesn't

understand

it.

Oh duh right. That's my fault. I got mixed up on the order of the posts. You had said that before edfug's read changed. This checks out, thank you.

And sure what the hell.

VOTE: edfug

[Carl Tuckerson]

[float=][/float]this progression bothers me about edfug so far. I don't see how Gandalf became less genuine or helpful from the former post to the latter post.

He didn't. I was moving my vote off of Hectic, since it was only there to get him to contribute something. I moved it to Gandalf because I wanted to pressure him to explain his reasoning better as I don't think "I don't like the look of those numbers" is a good reason, or one I would expect from him.

(we have played mafia before in person)

. I mostly liked his answers to my questions though and was genuinely trying to help him with my responces. I'll move my vote to someone else later on when I have an actual scum read or some new questions to ask. I wasn't trying to push for a Gandalf lynch, and if it had got close I would have unvoted.

[Ed. note: boldface is mine]

You've played with Gandalf? I know online and irl are different, but how does this compare to his irl play as either alignment?

[Carl Tuckerson]

UNVOTE: edfug

[Carl Tuckerson]

By my count I think Edfug is L-1

You knowingly put her to L-1? Lord have mercy...

[Carl Tuckerson]

May I humbly suggest that we make it a habit to prioritize vig'ging pagetop spammers? I will help control the rage they make me feel.
DGB

I take resposibility for Carls bad habits. We played a long and horrible game together and pagetops kinda became a thing with a few people and the mods and i sat silently and let it happen.

You're not the boss of me! And I only went for it once, and missed at that!

[Carl Tuckerson]

Pagetop

ffffffffffffffffffffffffffff uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Fooooking pagetop spam

ARGH

MAKE IT STOP

I'm twisting like William Shatner's Captain Kirk when the aliens torture him with high pitch sounds.

CAN WE MAKE THIS A REASON TO MODKILL???????????????????????

DGB
see what you made me do

Hey Serene, enlightenment and tranquility are more difficult to achieve when one is full of negative thoughts :^)

[Carl Tuckerson]

Call me slow if you please, but is the joke behind the Most Serene name that both players have short fuses?

[Carl Tuckerson]

Hey Serene, enlightenment and tranquility are more difficult to achieve when one is full of negative thoughts :^)

I dont remember you poking bears as much in that game as you are in this game.

When'd you grow balls?

I'm not goading

that

much... besides, he literally told us to tell him that, who am I to disagree?
You're probably right that this isn't constructive. I'm just annoyed with myself from misreading Dong and insomnia in our last game together, and [redacted because game is ongoing]. I know I have to change my approach to rageposters but I don't know what the right one is.

[Carl Tuckerson]

You’re gonna have to reconcile that with kuribo shooting carl

Maybe they'll take Hectic's advice and play RPS for it

[Carl Tuckerson]

Hey Serene, enlightenment and tranquility are more difficult to achieve when one is full of negative thoughts :^)

I dont remember you poking bears as much in that game as you are in this game.

When'd you grow balls?

I'm not goading

that

much... besides, he literally told us to tell him that, who am I to disagree?
You're probably right that this isn't constructive. I'm just annoyed with myself from misreading Dong and insomnia in our last game together, and [redacted because game is ongoing]. I know I have to change my approach to rageposters but I don't know what the right one is.

You could start by not exhibiting the bad traits your are railing against.

Then once you stop waving your erection around you could read what Kuribo was actually saying.

You figure out if someone is being an asshole by watching them act like an asshole. You figure out if they are a fan of explatives by watching them post.

You figured out eventually that I was town in that game but I wasn't the nicest of people. Insom was scum and was an asshole. Icon had his moments and was town. Look for motivations, not tone.

I want to fight against this but you're right. I made things worse. I'll do better.

[Carl Tuckerson]

TOWNZES I DONT KILLZ TONITE

Tucker Carlson

is town.

Can't wait until kuribo reads this lmao. This game is gonna be a trip.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Is edfug supposed to be on the townies list?

[Carl Tuckerson]

Most Serene DBG, I am confused by a couple of your reads.

You didn't list edfug. But I thought you were pretty certain she was town from all her town reads given.
And you have Tet in the mafia pile, but your reason is that Tet wants to shoot everything and that makes him town. I don't think him wanting to shoot everything makes him mafia (I'd consider it a weak but nonzero reason to think him town), so I'm confused by this placement because I don't believe you typoed by calling him town there.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Votecount 1.2

Iconeum (1): Formerfish
Gandalf (1): Egduf
Most Serene (2): TiphaineDeath, Hectic
TiphaineDeath (1): Gandalf
Egduf (2): Menalque, Oversoul
Formerfish (1): EspressoPatronum
EspressoPatronum (1): Most Serene

Not voting (4) - Tet, Iconeum, Carl Tuckerson, Delta Klim

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to strand.

NOTE: I will be away on a previously scheduled camping trip with no internet access starting the afternoon of Thu 8.1 Until sometime on Sun 8.4. My apologies for interference to the game.

(expired on 2019-08-01 05:30:00) remain until day end

“I think that’s L-1” lmao

Carl I can’t believe you fell for that

I'd tell you to go read Newbie 1942 but I wouldn't wish that on Satan.
The last game I finished had three consecutive lolhammers

[Carl Tuckerson]

This is a finished game right?

Yes. I met Fish and Iconeum in the longest newbie game on site record. Expect many references to it

[Carl Tuckerson]

Yeah I know about that game but do you not have at least some sort of instinct for how close we are to hammer?

Like when Oversoul said he thought we were at L-1 I had no idea what the count was but was are it wasn’t even at L-2

Sure but it didn't really matter. I put it on edfug in the first place just to put some weight behind my question to her. She had an interesting response (that she had played mafia with Gandalf IRL) and now I'm waiting for an answer to my followup to that.
I thought it was weird but didn't have a convenient vote count around, knew a couple of votes had gone her way and didn't feel like risking something stupid happening.

[Carl Tuckerson]

I can see Serene being scum - but only with me, town otherwise, so only a slight scumlean

I honestly feel like I got what you were trying to say until you said "only a slight scumlean." Consider me very confused.
"X could only be scum with me" is a plausible thing for town to say to townread someone else. Something like "Because of X's interactions and blablabla, the only way X could be mafia is if X were partners with me, so [because I'm town] X is town."
I don't get why Serene is leaning scum to you in the world where Serene can only be scum with you.

[Carl Tuckerson]

PageBottom

Fucking lol

[Carl Tuckerson]

ebwop: idk Hectic says it's a joke but I'm not sure I buy it.
but also don't know why mafia would do that so...

Hectic, is your serious read on Serene that Serene is town?

[Carl Tuckerson]

I honestly feel like I got what you were trying to say until you said "only a slight scumlean." Consider me very confused.
"X could only be scum with me" is a plausible thing for town to say to townread someone else. Something like "Because of X's interactions and blablabla, the only way X could be mafia is if X were partners with me, so [because I'm town] X is town."
I don't get why Serene is leaning scum to you in the world where Serene can only be scum with you.

I have a bad habit of making poor jokes which can be interpreted as scum

slips

- I invite you to look at the start of my previous games if you want some good examples.

(

@Mod:

Please sent this to Carl via PM please, don't post it to the main thread)

I'm glad you referred me to your past games. I haven't verified this claim yet,

but I did notice that

edguf*

was in your first newbie game!
Since you two have some past history, why don't you both tell me what you think of the other's play.

Never mind, leaving this up for posterity in the event that game finishes before this one, but it's an ongoing game so don't actually do this lol.

(*: I can't believe I just realized this is supposed to be "fudge" backwards. I've been misspelling it the whole time.)

@all: What are the rules on posting known information from an ongoing game? Hectic has flipped in one that hasn't finished yet and I don't know the extent to which I can cite that game to make a point here. Sorry if this is already too much.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Uhhh for totally unrelated reasons to anything happening anywhere else I swear, I townread Hectic.

[Carl Tuckerson]

FF, how serious are you taking this game?

That worries me a bit because you didnt make sense in our last game and you got pocketed by scum and pushed all bad wagons, so this feels more like you could be scum because you have too mcuh info.

What do you think this says about my alignment if this is true?

Iconeum, you had the exact same reaction I did to Hectic's posts about the "slip" yet you suspect me? Shouldn't you have seen all my posts saying what you're saying now and thought "good, Carl saw what I'm seeing, town"? Weird progression.
I get you not buying my sudden townread and I regret that I can't explain it but hopefully you can figure this one out on your own and see what I'm seeing.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Yeah, I do, because I actually did the assigned readings of his past games. It's clear you didn't so I'm going to wait until you do.

I get you not buying my sudden townread and I regret that I can't explain it but hopefully you can figure this one out on your own and see what I'm seeing.

I don't care about this. I'm judging actions and play from this game. You feel like trying to help cover up a scumslip

Why is your entire read on me based on me "shitposting" more often this game than in 1942 if you're only judging actions and play from this game?

[Carl Tuckerson]

**yeah, I do think it is, because

[Carl Tuckerson]

I don't get what you're not getting here.
I had literally the same reaction you did except I stopped to think that mafia would probably filter himself more than Hectic did, but still had the same general reaction to the same comment and same subsequent response Hectic gave.
Then Hectic said "check my meta" and I did and I now believe his story.

I'm open to you disagreeing with my conclusion but I'm not happy that you're not trying to figure this thing out. Pointing out that a self-admitted "scumslip" is weird is easy. Figuring out what it means is the hard part. You're only doing the easy part right now.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Yeah, I do, because I actually did the assigned readings of his past games. It's clear you didn't so I'm going to wait until you do.

I get you not buying my sudden townread and I regret that I can't explain it but hopefully you can figure this one out on your own and see what I'm seeing.

I don't care about this. I'm judging actions and play from this game. You feel like trying to help cover up a scumslip

Why is your entire read on me based on me "shitposting" more often this game than in 1942 if you're only judging actions and play from this game?

I'm not going to meta. I rarely do that. If I have previous game experience with players that obviously helps in forming reads, which is why I use that with you.

With what I just said these previous posts, do you think my 'entire read' is only based on your posting style?

I'd be less disappointed if it were. You're right that relative to my day 2 onward game in 1942, I was durdling a bit more at the beginning. If that's why you're scumreading me then I can just set you straight by EOD by figuring things out.
If you really want to hold onto this "Hectic scumslipped and Carl is doing damage control" narrative then I'm thoroughly unconvinced that you're trying to solve this thing.

[Carl Tuckerson]

I had literally the same reaction you did except I stopped to think that mafia would probably filter himself more than Hectic did

He didn't filter, and afterwards he realized he messed up and tries to cover it up. First by saying 'mistake, just ignore', but then trying to twist it into a

deliberate

joke is what is off here.

That's part of the joke you dolt
He's literally done it before. It's plain as day if you would do the homework. You're killing me Smalls.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Not doing your homework for you

[Carl Tuckerson]

You oughta go to law school if you can read that fast.
I stand by my townread on Hectic and I maintain that your explanation of that sequence of events is absurd

[Carl Tuckerson]

Going to bed
VOTE: Iconeum

[Carl Tuckerson]

I don't buy Carl's explanation that he was trying to get me to play less pissed off by intentionally pissing me off. I think he wanted to drag a fight out and push my buttons and when he got called out, he apologized.

I didn't intentionally piss you off. I did what I thought at the time I'd have wanted someone to do for me, but I went about it very poorly and made things worse. Fish rightly called me out for it and I apologized. You don't have to like it or accept my apology or even not ro-sham-bo me with guns tonight, but I at least hope you can see that I'm telling the truth here.

[Carl Tuckerson]

PL=Anti Town

Man, I can do some crazy shit sometimes when there are only a couple of people left but with all the people alive at the beginning of the game my track record for actually doing anything useful is so fucking negative that it honestly just seems better for me to chill the fuck out and do what I can and then maybe win the game later than to try to go all gung-ho and shite. Any time I go balls-to-the-wall as town I seem to be wrong.

You should do it anyway.

(1) Practice makes perfect, or in this case accurate enough;
(2) It would help us (me, really) read you better. Frankly, I think making yourself clearly townie is more valuable in a lot of places than actually catching mafia, since you deprive mafia of reasonable mislynches to win the game. Mafia can lose all but one teammate and still win if they have enough mislynch targets; but it doesn't matter if the town sucks at catching them if the town is also very good at being clearly townie and depriving them of mislynches.

Your ISO is a bit low on alignment-indicative statements to me so you going balls-to-the-wall would help even if you got the mafia wrong.


p.edit: lol @ the flavor of "Most Serene" aggressively trying to be rid of "Hectic." achieving tranquility, one corpse at a time

[Carl Tuckerson]

Carl I read your GTAKS. You are a cool person

Glad you liked it. Run over there and ask me something if you want. I had fun writing it out.

[Carl Tuckerson]

egduf, can you talk to me about Gandalf's play here vs the in-person games you two have played together? I asked earlier but it got lost in the shuffle.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Look, a player list, I shall use it to create reads, muahahahah!

Spoiler:

Delta Klim: Has plan, is town, nuff said.
Hectic: Wierd scum-joke shit needs lynching, with fire. Since we lack both fire and lynching I will accept guns.
Formerfish: Like, everything this man posts feels like fluff. I isoed him and couldn't find ANYTHING worthwhile. Might still be town, but feels wieeeeerd.
Egduf: Could be scum trying to protect Hectic? But the first set of his posts feel REALLY townie to me. This wagon seems dumb and the people on it should feel bad.
Menalque: The intentional rage-inducing irks me, and could be cheeky-scum, but reads kind of as more town to me. Also likely to get shot by Serene so doesn't matter all THAT much.
EspressoPatronum: Kind of gut-town feel here? I don't like the vote on EDGUF but bad-votes does not=scum.
Most Serene: Has felt scum to me all game, but the fact that they are on hectic so hard is concerning. Gonna call Hectic v Serene SvT one way or the other, leaning towards Serene being town for now but I'd rather just see them both shot tonight TBH.
Tet: Post#400 feels townie, but also VERY fluffy and no votes at all. Needs more stuff. Town-lean though.
Oversoul: Doing an actual quick ISO this slot seems SCUMMY AF. Like, burn it the fuck down scum. Might well be with hectic too, or Serene, so hard to associate which is the scum there off this slot, but it feels scum. The vote flops around like a drunk air-breathing fish with about as much explanation or real usefulness to game-state. Super-down to lynch this.
Gandalf: Miiiiight be overplaying the newbie-card? Feels kind of off. Also stopped posting when we stopped poking it. Could well be our third scum here.
TiphaineDeath: It me! I town, fuck off. <3
Iconeum: The speed on 477 feels REALLY off to me. This could be scum. If it is that means hectic is town F-sure but serene is less likely to be scum from the referenced SVT up top because having two scum-players pushing it seems weird to me. Could be scum with Serene though?
Carl Tuckerson: Post#543 is ridiculously townie, and the interactions with Serene already read as pretty town to me, firm-town.

Town Pile:
Carl Tuckerson
Delta Klim
Edguf
Tet(Low-tier)
Tiphaine Death
Serene(Could be scum with icon trying to hard-kill hectic for weird-joke or maybe town? Dunno, probably should put this in the needs more sorting pile but it also is definitely scum or town, not neutral, so it belongs here. Don't judge me it makes sense in my head.)

Scum Pile:
Iconeum
Gandalf
Hectic(Though not with Icon)
Oversoul(No it's not Omgus, shaddup X_X)

Needs more sorting Pile:
Formerfish
Menalque
Espresso Patronum

Hectic or icon being stranded is good and hectic seems easier, gonna keep my vote where it is. Probably going to shoot oversoul tonight though <3.

[EDITOR'S NOTE: Added spoiler tag for readability in event of quote tower]

What did you see about Oversoul's posting that clearly jumped out as suspicious to you?
By chance, did you notice that your suspects all revolve around Hectic and people who are sure Hectic is mafia? Does this tell you anything about Hectic's alignment?

[Carl Tuckerson]

FML.

@Mod: if you don't mind can you please convert that to the pop-open spoiler tag instead of the one that doesn't accomplish what I want. TIA and sorry for being a tard.

[Carl Tuckerson]

egduf, can you talk to me about Gandalf's play here vs the in-person games you two have played together? I asked earlier but it got lost in the shuffle.

He’s not particularly controversial and tends to go with the flow of town. If he figures something out he’s normally pretty sure of it and has good reasons, I don’t see him flip flop often. He plays more based of reads and interactions than numbers. This is why I thought the dismissal of plan was odd, because he didn’t have any strong reasons for going against what was popular opinion at the time.

I see. Is there anything alignment-specific that you can tell me about his behavior?
I ask because I gave him a townread early in the game for being an invested part of the mechanical solve conversation, but I sense he's dropped off quite a bit once we moved to real scumhunting, which bothers me.

Actually I should just ask him. But please do answer as well edfug.

Gandalf, where do you stand on suspects right now? Your recent posts look very noncommittal to me.

[Carl Tuckerson]

I'm not really worried about reticence to accept the plan, I didn't fully get it myself for a bit and was worried I was missing something. His reaction felt about right to me.
More worried that he's not really

done

anything since. Talking shop about the setup in an unusual format to get some early brownie points and then checking out of the thread is a classic scum play.

[Carl Tuckerson]

@CT Re: Hectic: It tells me that his flip is very indicative of many others and may help solve the game so him dying is probably good?

@CT Re: Oversoul: The start up posting seems fluffy, the vote on me is random, the vote on hectic is indicative, and then not discussed whatsoever before flipping on to EDFUG, the L-1 post is terrible, either in counting or alignment, one of the two, 394 is the first time icon is brought up, like, at all, and no explanation is given. Could TOTALLY see icon/over as scum together. Vote on EDGUF also never really explained before jumping on me, then some omgus accusations, and where TF did the icon read go? Like, I dunno man, their posting just all feels meh or off.


Mmmm, might be worth stranding oversoul or icon and sorting out hectic based on how that goes come to think of it.

Not the take I expected on Hectic, but a pretty good one honestly. I just plain think Hectic is town so I don't want to do this, but from your standpoint that's a very reasonable solution.
Some of what you're saying makes sense on Oversoul but why do you think the L-1 bit was bad? I thought the way he questioned me about it after I moved my vote was pretty townie. It looked just like a gambit I saw someone do in my last completed game. I see where you're coming from but I liked the way he questioned me for "falling for it."

I’m gonna be so sad if my hunch is correct

Vagueposting like it's Instagram over here... what's your hunch?

[Carl Tuckerson]

Pretty sure his "Hunch," is that I'm scum since he hasn't actually based voting me on anything xD.

Meh, I always distrust gambits. It's so easy to just go "Oh that was me gambiting, yes, sure, let's go with that." To literally anything.

I'll go pull the posts I remember that make it look very planned

[Carl Tuckerson]

Nvm I got mixed up with Menalque's questioning. I liked Menalque's questions about the fake L-1 claim and my unvote.
Oversoul's reaction to my reaction is uninspired.

[Carl Tuckerson]

I agree with Carl. I think Hectic’s “scum slip” is the Towniest thing he’s done so far. It’s moved him up to a town read for me. I don’t think Icon’s reaction is scummy though, deliberately playing scummy as Town for a joke is a weird move, and being suspicious of that is fine.

This is so town.

agreed

This is awesome.
Definitely going to hydra a game soon.

What's got you thinking Hectic is mafia?

[Carl Tuckerson]

What's got you thinking Hectic is mafia?

i'm sorry, the hydra head you are calling is unavailable. DGB will be with you eventually


for now, I, kuribo, have already explained why hectic is scum


I even made sand art about it

Ah I thought the other head was at the beach. Hope you are enjoying it. I moved away from the Gulf and haven't been able to go in a while, but my favorite times of year that I would actually recommend to others were April (dodge spring break and summer crowds) and September (especially after Labor Day).
...are you at the Gulf? I just assumed but I guess you could be anywhere lol.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Ah I see. I think I know why I thought you were at the Gulf, you mentioned New Orleans in another thread and I'd just associated you with home. Sounds like fun!
I would not have guessed that ending from skimming your ISO lol. Happy enough ending.


Anyway enough flirting. I see you think Iconeum is town. How much of that is related to his read on Hectic vs other things in the thread (if there are any), and if there are other things in the thread pointing you to Iconeum being town, what are they? I'm reading the opposite of you on both players, so I'm curious how much of the one is dependent on the other (since my scumread on Iconeum is mostly rooted in thinking his read on Hectic is incorrect and not coming from the right place) and how much we can independently discuss.

[Carl Tuckerson]

We have two factions gaining traction right now--one faction suspects Hectic, the other Iconeum. Some (like me) have interrelated reads on this issue, most (like Most Serene, and maybe Gandalf here?) have independent reads that Hectic and Iconeum are different alignments.

I sense there's something significant to this but I'm running out of steam to figure it out tonight. Someone ping me tomorrow if I forget and I'll dig into it. At a glance I expect the following to be true:
(1) There's at most one mafia between them;
(2) If one is mafia, his partners will be in his detractors more than his supporters.
~
(1) is easy enough, I just don't think they're busing. Mafia Hectic doesn't deliberately scumslip for mafia Iconeum to then call out and press, and mafia Iconeum has no real reason to be invested in showing the world that his partner slipped when I gave him plenty of room to say "oh yeah you're right, meta that's difficult to discuss right now clearly shows he is NOT guilty, good job Carl" and back off of it with plausible deniability if Hectic got burned later.
(2) If you accept that (1) is true and accept the premise of (2) (that there is a mafia here), the mafia's partners know that they'll be taking a lot of heat when we find the mafia between them, if the mafia are caught out supporting their guy (whether they be supporting scum Hectic in the wake of a scumslip or scum Iconeum for pushing a fake scumslip unreasonably hard). The safe spot for mafia to be right now is softly against their guy, probably not voting him but certainly naming him as a suspect.

Sorry that's so generalized, I plan to look through the two factions tomorrow and come up with something more actionable.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Maybe I'm tripping but I thought I remembered someone saying that Iconeum and Hectic should shoot each other. This is a decent step to solving IMO. Those two flips would tell us a lot about the game state and I'm pretty sure we'd catch a mafia.
I would obviously prefer we just strand and shoot Iconeum and be done with it, but I don't think I'm going to be able to persuade people that the scum between them is just Iconeum, and I kinda think Hectic is getting shot regardless of what I think, so I'd settle for the compromise that Iconeum and Hectic cross-fire and a couple townies volunteer (but do not post in thread that you are volunteering) to shoot into those two to prevent barricade balking.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Oddly enough, the above strategy means I should not be stranding Iconeum.

UNVOTE: Iconeum

[Carl Tuckerson]

Maybe I'm tripping but I thought I remembered someone saying that Iconeum and Hectic should shoot each other. This is a decent step to solving IMO. Those two flips would tell us a lot about the game state and I'm pretty sure we'd catch a mafia.
I would obviously prefer we just strand and shoot Iconeum and be done with it, but I don't think I'm going to be able to persuade people that the scum between them is just Iconeum, and I kinda think Hectic is getting shot regardless of what I think, so I'd settle for the compromise that Iconeum and Hectic cross-fire and a couple townies volunteer (but do not post in thread that you are volunteering) to shoot into those two to prevent barricade balking.

If scum know we're planning on having a bunch of ppl shoot, they'll shoot wide + possibly kill 3 town. I'd rather stick to the earlier plan of stranding one and having a select number of town decide whether they should shoot.

Forcing scum to focus fire is in our best interest unless we bait them into shooting wide but actually barricade.

I agree with your principles here but I don't think this plan contradicts them--we're just rigging the moves of two people who the town suspects and saying that

someone

should clean up the mess. Since we think there's at most one mafia between Iconeum and Hectic, that leaves us 9 townies, two of whom can clean up and seven of whom are doing something undeclared.
I wouldn't want to go further than this (Menalque's idea to rig something like 6-7 people's actions is too far IMO--we start to get exploitable at that point) but I think there would be significant value in resolving those two slots and it wouldn't commit too many actions.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Ok, kids in bed, dishes are done, bowl is packed, lets fucking do this.

Icon being stranded means its likely scum kill him right?

Got to be the other way around, mafia won't shoot their own and I'd think mafia would think not to bother shooting someone that got enough townies to vote to strand them b/c one of the townies would do it.
I think it's likely

town

would kill him but not scum.

[Carl Tuckerson]

If any of you think that you can control my gun target this night ur wrong. I'm not barricading, and i'm most likely shooting Gandalf.

If ya'll wanna strand me go ahead, i'm dying either way tonight

If you're not gonna play ball and shoot Hectic then

Intent on Iconeum.

You can stop this by:
(1) explaining why you no longer scumread Hectic (or at least scumread Hectic more); and
(2) giving me a plausible narrative for the world where neither you nor Hectic is scum.

~

This reminds me, how should we handle mason claims? I don't want to strand a mason but I also think it's probably terrible to have them out to prevent a stranding since that outs someone else for the strongman.
I'd be stunned if Iconeum is a mason so hopefully it never matters, but masons are the only people whose stranding should worry us so I'd like to figure out an answer. Hopefully they're just in the town piles so it won't matter.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Well, we should always have time to delay it I'd think, even if it meant piling up quick on somebody else

[Carl Tuckerson]

Don't tempt me with salt value, especially after you buck up on me like you aren't worried about getting stranded.

Humor me a bit. I read it, and I didn't clearly see why you changed your mind on Hectic. I see why you moved on Gandalf and I thought your progression made sense, but you reaffirmed your (bad) conclusion that Hectic isn't on his previous town meta, said he was misrepresenting you/the situation regarding who was pushing who at one point, and I don't see why you decided otherwise. That's why I asked you why you changed your mind and why I should believe we're suddenly in a world where you're both town.

I suggest you play along with my questions while you have the chance.

[Carl Tuckerson]

That's not what I'm asking. You said this shortly before moving off Hectic:

I'm gonna cry if this is TvT with gandalf the laughing scum

It's plausible to me that you'd think voting for Hectic is counterproductive, but that's not the point.
The point is that your read appears to change, and you appear to believe Hectic is town. Is this correct?
If so, I don't get what changed about Hectic's behavior to make you think this, and I don't get how it is that we had such divergent opinions about his behavior before your recent exchange with Hectic, how you said that you still didn't see the meta point I raised based off his self-reference, but you ended up thinking he was town.

[Carl Tuckerson]

The point is that your read appears to change, and you appear to believe Hectic is town. Is this correct?

My tunnel on him is gone. I still kinda scumread him for it, but i'm much less sure about it. Let's say I can now see a world where he is actually town. Especially with the short deadline I dont see it as productive to keep pushing a single slip, when there isn't general support for it. I literally can't do or say anything more to push him then I already had.
What's worse is that I'm being scumread for my push (which happens to me nearly every game). So yeah I don't see much benefit in keeping that up.

Still confused a bit by this--these reasons make it sound like pushing Hectic was tactically poor rather than a poor read. If the day were longer and you weren't being scumread for pushing Hectic, would you still be pushing?

VOTE: unvote

VOTE: menalque

What's going on here Gandalf?

[Carl Tuckerson]

I had Icon and Menalque as my top scumreads when i was pushed to set out where i was. So I thought it was an opportunity to get some more information from Menalque. We're all guessing at the moment, but

leaving my vote on someone who others were unvoting seemed a bit pointless

, plus i've called Edguf likely town (although I be interested to hear your scumreads @Edguf) and Hectic prob town (although i'm now undecided on Hectic either way, as i thought he might be town for niaive reasons) and they have their votes here

The bolded bothers me because it's such an overtly tactical reason to vote. Like you are just trying to put your vote somewhere that can strand someone instead of voting your suspect.
Why do you think Menalque is mafia, and how did you intend to get information from Menalque without asking him any questions?

[Carl Tuckerson]

shrug
VOTE: Iconeum

Not as confident in this as I'd like to be but the transition from being sure Hectic is scum to not being sure didn't make sense to me. Reasons given for leaving felt like tactical considerations to avoid being stranded and killed rather than a genuine change of heart. Not feeling as good about this as before but something just isn't right here.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Looks like we got Iconeum. Today was tough but I think we got out of it okay, no promises once he flips town though. I'm going to take some heat for pushing him so hard even if I think it was something I'd have done as town. Don't know how long I can keep this up if I'm alive as a near universal TR.

I think we can push FF tomorrow for sure but beyond that we're kinda running out of reasonable targets. Hopefully a bunch of people who aren't FF die and we can just ride it out with what's left. We'll play this by ear and see who's even alive lol, I heard town killed like six people last time this setup got used so maybe we'll get it gift-wrapped too.

Just keep doing what you're doing and don't worry--you always look more suspicious to yourself than you do to other players. Y'all are doing fine.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Oh no.

[Carl Tuckerson]

They're even separate backgrounds, how the fuck.

[Carl Tuckerson]

VOTE: Carl Tuckerson
sorry guys

[Carl Tuckerson]

egosearch is a cruel mistress

[Carl Tuckerson]

k glhf
sorry team

[Carl Tuckerson]

Unvote

Vote: Carl tuckerson

His head belongs to me.

You could let me keep my gun and we could have that battle we talked about earlier

[Carl Tuckerson]

Most of what you're saying makes sense, Serene.

No one else shoot Carl. If he lives, Serene is scum.

He ain't going a god damn place, I've been waiting twenty pages to cap that fool

I'll cap you without a gun bitch. Meet me at the Sonic parking lot

[Carl Tuckerson]

I think you should all shoot yourselves

Good night and get tucked

[Carl Tuckerson]

feed the murdercock

i hope i will someday understand this

The murdercock is a righteous bloodlust for scumfucks that harnesses energy passed onto it by townies. It becomes engorged with the blood of thousands of dead scum, seeking always to feed on more . It can never be sated, it is never satisfied. It throbs and it undulates, seeking out scum with its turgid vengeance.

#ThingsIHopeTheNSANeverTiesToMe

[Carl Tuckerson]

From the scum PT:

I'm not sure how dogged kuribo gets about people that piss him off

GreyICE got me mislynched one time and I spent like four years waiting for him to roll scum against me so I could lynch him. CuriousKarmadog got me mislynched in 2008 and I'm still waiting to get his head.

That's not personal though that's just business.


Carl, one thing I didn't mention at the time, because it seems so unbelievable to be honest, is that people trying to piss me off for "reactions" or to get me to ragequit has become such a thing over the years that it's actually become a decent scumtell. See, scum like it when the game dissolved into incomprehensible garbage, and the quickest way to do that is to pick a fight with me, or one of the other people I won for rageposting. I've caught numerous scum--- indeed entire scum teams--- based initially on the fact that they intentionally tried to push me for a reaction.

That's why I fully intended to shoot you, even after your apology for baiting. It wasn't a matter of "imma remove this guy from the game," but "yeah this thing is scum and I need to calm down and do the work."

Ah that's unlucky then, I didn't react as a gambit to throw you off your game, I saw the post after replacing out of another game for people being dicks and thought "fucking hell here we go again." I overreacted sincerely but it was going to get me a bullet anyway lol.
Worked out well enough that the gambit went the way it did then, except that we didn't barricade FF