Undertale Semi-Open Dead PT

[Oversoul]

Phew. Did my job

[Oversoul]

Post 326: I can post, just not about your alignment S_S :p

I agree Gamma I feel like Oversoul should be more of a focus and they should be digging even more into the gambit to determine whether it's a town gambit or scum Gambit.

No one noticed that he claimed the role that chemist kinda crumbed day1.

I was so town stahp both of you

[Oversoul]

There is, quite possibly, nothing worse than writing flavor for two hours and then accidentally deleting it.

[Oversoul]

I think you lose Volxen it was a valiant effort though

[Oversoul]

I think I kill SS in this phase though

[Oversoul]

Lmao. They gave it the ole college try

[Oversoul]

LoL. Chennis is salty.

I admit I played in a very antagonistic way but that is because I didn’t need to worry about being lynched or nightkilled. Chennis is right that I wanted to control the town but that is only because I felt like a town with so many lurkers would be bad for the future spares.

[Oversoul]

Well adorable is scum at the very least

[Oversoul]

Pops is the scumteam Chennisden/Oversoul? That would seriously be pretty funny.

I really am town guys.

No, but that is the scumteam that random.org gave me before I decided to ignore it, funnily enough.

Lmao this would have been epic if I was scum

[Oversoul]

I stand by my play to claim and the. Rescind for the PR. It was the only way I could guarantee he got into the spare room.

[Oversoul]

Watching Chennis trying to figure out the machinations of my mind is entertaining because I quite don’t understand the machinations of my own mind.

Hmm. That might get me blacklisted from games.

[Oversoul]

It’s like when I’m playing Smash Bros. I mostly don’t think, I just

do

. Maybe that’s because I’ve been playing it for so long and it is second nature to me. I’ve also been lying for long it’s second nature to me. Whoa Dr. Phil when’d you get here.

[Oversoul]

fwiw the correct answer to "hard claim never rescinding" is always "no" unless you're in LyLo or at like L-1

at least imo

This is fair. Avoids the Lynch All Liars. But I think that philosophy is too archaic in this day and age.

[Oversoul]

So how does Adorable know Chemist protected her exactly? Is that a slip?

[Oversoul]

oh dur, she was in the spare chat

[Oversoul]

I think Adorable is pretty good, she just needs to be a bit more active

[Oversoul]

Hmm, that is interesting. I forgot how different it was back then. I hope it is Adorable because it would be very, very funny for Chennis to choose correctly based off associations with me.

[Oversoul]

I was confused by the DDL kill over Elements as well. But Adorable did somehow pick all the people that I would have pushed as town spares, so maybe she knows something we don’t.

Also, does town only get one lynch after the core has been reached? Or can town no lynch?

[Oversoul]

Adorable is going for it. Hopefully chennis continues to be right for the wrong reasons. I imagine I’m gonna get an earful from him after the game.

[Oversoul]

It is such a good setup. I would play another run of this. Remember the secret scum strat I messaged you?

[Oversoul]

I think this setup excels where others fail because of the options you have available to you. Spare, Genocide, Neutral are all dictated by different things and be moved into or out of at (well Neutral can) at a moment’s notice. Spare contradicts traditional mafia tactics but Genocide also punishes town and scum equally so it forces scum to want to do Neutral

[Oversoul]

Pops, I think you've been a great mod! I have enjoyed myself. Although, that may have come at the cost of the greater game-state and other players' happiness. I did not intend for that to happen. But if town wins I think they'll suck it up.

One day pops, we will be town together and #rekt the scums.

[Oversoul]

In a way, I am happy that I banished Chennis to the shadow realm so he could not poison my mind with heresy such as Volxen town.

[Oversoul]

Adorable's 690 is pretty scummy.

[Oversoul]

I don't know if you've read the whole dead thread but I've calculated the level of fake townspew needed for scum to win Pacifist and Genocide routes to be equivalent.

Both me and my partner didn't really like Genocide because it requires you to pull off four mislynches to win. Usually when scum needs four mislynches it's because there are three scum. Four mislynches is a lot to pull off when there are only two scum. Not to mention that Genocide gives town the most information by far, with consistent flips along with the LOVE mechanic, which can be leashed/controlled.

There are other reasons why Pacifist benefits scum as well. One big one -- which surprisingly wasn't brought up a lot in the game thread -- is that it usually is easier to fake a townread on a townie than it is to fake a scumread on them. With the Pacifist route, the game primarily revolves around townhunting rather than scumhunting, which appealed to both me and my partner. I think on some level the Pacifist route is easier than the Genocide (or even Neutral) route as scum, because with each mislynch wagon that you are on you open yourself up to more and more scrutiny as the town gains more and more information. Whereas the Pacifist route denies town of key information and allows the town (if it is not vigilant) to be lulled into a false sense of security. And in particular, it allows you push your partner towards a spare on the grounds that they are the towniest player in the game. You can do this without consequence as long as everyone is convinced that it is optimal to stay on the Pacifist route rather than switch to the Neutral route. Even if you are unable to get yourself spared after getting your partner spared, it still hurts town when the core is reached in the Pacifist route because no one can ever prove that you were scum.

This is partially the reason I played the way I did. Race to the bottom is a very valid scum strategy and its effects are multiplied in a Spare scenario. It is why I did not trust Chennis for so long, but decided to swallow my ego and spare him

hold it over everyone's head in endgame when he flipped scum

. I think town needs a leader throughout otherwise scum will definitely get in.

Losing 2 of the top 3 townies every phase is hard when you get down to the last two Spares. It is partially why I capitulated with Adorable. At the time, I was never going to spare you, DEB, or Something_Smart. Ideally, we would spare me, but I knew that was a snowball's chance in heck because people

fear

scum read what they don't understand. Adorable was the next best option from my point of view and I did not read her as a team with anyone currently in the Spare room, so I thought it was safe even if I was wrong on my individual read on her.

I think if you played this game 100 times, that town would outright win maybe 25% of the time with 4 straight town spares. I want to narrow my hypothesis even further and state that scum will get into the Spare room more often than not via the last two Spares before the core.

That said, Volxen I scumread you, or at least didn't townread you, because Chennis was so adamant you would make yourself town. When that never materialized, I felt it was better to not let in. I also thought it was weird that you never advocated for yourself to be spared because from a town perspective, that is the only spare you could guarantee being town. Correct me if I am wrong, but I felt like you were deliberately avoiding talking about sparing yourself as a way to engender trust among the town in a "look, I'm being so town/selfless I don't even want to be spared" sort of way. Compare that to Something_Smart's insistence on wanting to be spared, Chennisden's wanting to be spared, my wanting to be spared, etc.

[Oversoul]

Mod can you make that incorrect [/i] a [/s]? TY

[Oversoul]

Guys I can probably just write an endgame scene for Adorable lynch or Elements lynch and just use either one right.

Like this never swings chennis right

Correct.

[Oversoul]

The fact that Chennis is so die hard OS scum is what differentiates him from me. I at least recognized my own tunnel vision and corrected for it.

[Oversoul]

/s by the way in case that wasn’t obvious. Sometimes it’s too dharp

[Oversoul]

volxen I know you really bonded in the scum PT but if you roll scum without Adorable in my next game and play to her wincon over your own I will modkill you

[Oversoul]

Actually, I think it would be fun to be town with Oversoul in this setup. Now that I know what his town game looks like, I think that we could work well together as townies.

What were your and Adorable’s thoughts when I was actin’ like a fool on Day 1 and Day 2?

[Oversoul]

Is Chennis just delaying the inevitable because he barely got to the play the game?

[Oversoul]

It’s hard to be the “reason” you lose