Mini Normal 2095 - Game Over!

[Luca Blight]

Good day to you all.

So far getting positive vibes from Icon, Klick and Pilgrim. Somewhat negative vibe from Datisi.

I generally like to keep my reads and reasoning close to my chest early on, but something needs doing here. Does anyone have any slight pings as of yet?

[Luca Blight]

Good day to you all.

So far getting positive vibes from Icon, Klick and Pilgrim. Somewhat negative vibe from Datisi.

I generally like to keep my reads and reasoning close to my chest early on, but something needs doing here. Does anyone have any slight pings as of yet?

why positive vibes on billy?

specifically, i read him and he comes off as purposefully ignorant. what do you see differently here?

You could be right; now you mention it I can see how you've interpreted it that way.

The reason I had positive vibes from Pilgrim is because in 16 he talks about hoping not to mislynch Icon, which seems unnecessarily dangerous territory to enter if he were scum. In general he seems quite open, but as I said I can see how he could be playing the newbie card to an extent.

[Luca Blight]

Good day to you all.

So far getting positive vibes from Icon, Klick and Pilgrim. Somewhat negative vibe from Datisi.

I generally like to keep my reads and reasoning close to my chest early on, but something needs doing here. Does anyone have any slight pings as of yet?

Luca y u not pushing Datisi if the slot's pinging you?

Because the slight ping isn’t really based on anything concrete; was just a feeling based on her play so far, therefore there is nothing yet to base a push on. I was merely giving my early feelings in the hope it would lead to others giving their feelings and thus information would be born.

[Luca Blight]

I haven’t played Mafia for ages but I can’t ever remember seeing a specified townbloc - usually there comes a point where you naturally start trying to work with the people you strongly believe are Town - it’s rarely something that needs highlighting in of itself.

[Luca Blight]

Klick, sorry, didn't realize that was to me. No idea what they'd be talking about. Maybe how they should interact or not interact?

Is that all you think the Mafia would be talking about right now?

What do you think they’re talking about?

[Luca Blight]

I’m very busy this weekend but will try and catch-up every now and then.

[Luca Blight]

Catching up presently.

[Luca Blight]

Just reading up now...

As of the start of page 7, I'm feeling pretty good about Flippy, Klick and Billy. Iconeum seemed Townie based on his start, but I may have to revisit that slot at some point, Tchill's contribution at the end of page 6 seems decent.

Klick's 151 is either townie or confident scum work. I'm leaning towards the former atm.

[Luca Blight]

Tchili mid page 8 is either showing genuine Townie emotion or is a skilled scum player - it reminds me of my own frustration in past games.

Just skimmed the last couple of pages - gonna get myself more comfortable for some deeper reading. Right now I'm not really scumreading any of the active players, which is pretty rare for me. The only one that falls slightly below the null line is probably Datisi based on her content, or lack thereof. Hopefully we get some replacements in soon.

Gonna read back again now.

[Luca Blight]

Flippy is an interesting one - started off slowly and has built up a head of steam. I'm naturally inclined to townread him for his activity and casual style, but could be scum growing in confidence due to having a free playground to do what they want with. A quick skim of his meta tells me he doesn't often play in such a manner as either alignment.

I agree with Tchill's opinion in 184 that Flippy lining up the Billy lynch Tomorrow is pretty sketchy; that is the kind of move I'd expect from an overconfident scum.

[Luca Blight]

I also agree with the 'trying to look Town' bit regarding the topic of whether we should use the full day or cut it short.

Also, as a side point, I never understand why, as a Townie, you would tell scum what you're looking out for (in this case, specifically the interactions between possible scum partners). This isn't necessarily AI in of itself as I see this kind of thing all the time, but it's just something I feel is counter-productive.

[Luca Blight]

Looking over Datisi's ISO - it's full of game theory chat and passive questioning - this is where my slightly below null read originates from. The only real point of interest is 99 - Would scum do such a 'test'? Looking back at it, it felt a bit unnecessary of Datisi because Billy's answer to Klick's original question already provided the 'townslip'. I think I'm leaning towards this being an act from scum who are at a loss of what to do, so choose to do something that appears to be useful Town work, with the additional benefit of getting a Townie onside (which, if this scenario is accurate, would have been successful given Pilgrims TR of Datisi).

This is still very much a work in progress, but my reads are something like this at the moment:

Tchill
Klick
Pilgrim, Icon, Flippy,
Datisi

Incidentally, Flippy's reaction to the same incident looked pretty genuine, which is why I've put him around the null level. I actually dislike such tests as it causes me to doubt myself; such reactions can look so effective, yet be so easily faked by a good player

[Luca Blight]

I don’t believe so - this is my first mafia game for ages.

[Luca Blight]

I don’t believe so - this is my first mafia game for ages.

I only ask cos you said something about my meta

Yes, sometimes I look at the meta of certain players that I feel conflicted about. I find it interesting that you’ve been so much more active in this game than most others you’ve been in. Has this been a conscious change in play style?

[Luca Blight]

Incidentally, Flippy's reaction to the same incident looked pretty genuine, which is why I've put him around the null level. I actually dislike such tests as it causes me to doubt myself; such reactions can look so effective, yet be so easily faked by a good player

Would you otherwise be SRing him?

pedit: strong desire to put him at L-1...

Yes, before I read back over that incident I was going to put Flippy next to you at the bottom, but the ‘townslip’ made me feel unsure of myself.

[Luca Blight]

@Mod

- I think we’re well due a replacement for the Robb slot now.

[Luca Blight]

So far getting positive vibes from Icon, Klick and Pilgrim. Somewhat negative vibe from Datisi.

care to expand a little bit with specifics? Cuz I honestly had no vibes at all from any of the posts I read so far (posts before this one I'm quoting)

I expanded on the Pilgrim vibes in 57. I felt positively about Icon early on mainly due to the fact he seemed to be posting without thinking too much (I’m aware some players can do this as scum, but it’s a half-decent starting point). The vibes about Klick were mainly due to the ‘drunken’ posting. Again, this could be a clever scum move but I felt it was more likely to come from a Townie.

[Luca Blight]

And in case you were wondering about somewhat negative early Datisi vibe, it was because, by comparison to Icon, she seemed rather stilted. She appeared to be accustomed to a similar opening style, and yet it felt like she was holding back a little.

[Luca Blight]

Going over Klick's Iso.

40 - I agree with Icon that there is nothing particularly wrong with changing your RVS vote to another RVS vote - it's actually quite a usual thing in my experience. I've seen RVS' that last like three pages with random votes flying back and forth. I'm generally not a fan of RVS myself but I believe there can be bit and pieces learnt from it. Anyway, I'm not reading much into this as Klick was seemingly trying to create some real content, which is quite natural.

51 - This felt Town. I feel scum, whether sober or not, would be more likely to avoid drawing such attention to themselves here. Klick's grammar and language remains pretty much on point, so I doubt he could have been too intoxicated, but the fact he didn't misspell words etc in a way adds to its authenticity (I always cringe when I see 'drunken' posts where the player exaggerates their condition by writing a load of nonsense).

55 - Asks Billy what he thinks scum are talking about. It turns out (122) that Klick was aware that scum have no day chat. Klick follows up the question in 78 and then immediately unvotes Pilgrim following his response. He also doesn't immediately reveal (or try to take credit for) his test. This feels like a really natural progression.

82 - Talks of a townblock, including himself. That would be some pretty gutsy scum work right there.

He hasn't done as much in recent times, but I think I've seen enough to get a fairly solid Town read here.

[Luca Blight]

Looking after my kid at the moment so hard for me to fully check back, but I think I’ve covered most of the above already. I had a very slight townread on you based on the opening. By the time I made my catch-up post you hadn’t posted for like three days, nor had your ‘serious’ work at that point done much to give me a read on you either way, so I had you as null. Recently I’ve agreed with your points of view on Nippy (or rather you agreed with mine) and on Klick, plus I’ve seen some positive game advancing work from you, so I have you as a town-lean. I haven’t Iso’d you yet but that’s where i currently stand. The rest of your questions I believe I’ve covered already if you look back.

[Luca Blight]

At this point it’s still early given we’ve heard almost nothing from Kop and I haven’t yet got a read on Almost50. From the players who have been active from the start, I would consider lynching Datisi or Flippy, with a preference for a Datisi Lynch.

[Luca Blight]

Your datisi scumread comes from early game holding back? Any update on that?

I did give an update, read my iso.

[Luca Blight]

I approach the game logically, I see it as a logical puzzle (that’s why I much prefer being Town, because I like having something to solve). Devoid of life seems a tad harsh, but whatever.

Can you elaborate with examples why my posts seem fake to you? You never mentioned this at all until now.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: kop

can we pile up here please? 2 posts for the duration of this game isn't phenomenal, maybe we can squeeze his thoughts out of him

Has Datisi’s catch-up affected your read on her?

[Luca Blight]

@Datisi: It seems odd then that you preferred a Tchill Lynch over a Luca Lynch earlier in the day if I’ve been giving you bad vibes the whole time.

[Luca Blight]

This was on page 6:

Slight preference to vote for Tchill over Luca, but neither are pinging me as scum yet.

So I wasn’t pinging her as scum and she preferred to Lynch Tchill, yet now she is saying I’ve been giving her bad vibes and she was waiting to see if I would change....doesn’t quite add up.

[Luca Blight]

@Datisi:It seemed like you were expecting scum to be discussing something more specific (I also wasn’t aware of the no day chat) so I was wondering what your thoughts were.

[Luca Blight]

Also Datisi, are you saying my posts have become faker/more devoid of life since you gave that opinion on page 6?

[Luca Blight]

Busy atm so can’t keep up with the live chat, so bear with me.

@Datisi:It seemed like you were expecting scum to be discussing something more specific (

I also wasn’t aware of the no day chat

) so I was wondering what your thoughts were.

Huh. You didn't read all the game rules? And when going through my ISO later on, you didn't mention it?

pedit: yes, I would say so. Also I realize now "devoid of life" might have been too harsh, but I'll stick with fake.

I actually did read the game rules but I forgot about it.

What should I have mentioned?

[Luca Blight]

What should I have mentioned?

The fact you didn't know about the daytalk. I kinda feel like you would've mentioned that part when going through my ISO, since you did bring up 99

Why should I have mentioned it?

[Luca Blight]

@Luca
There was no need for you to mention it. However, you kinda strike me as a type of player who would try to get as much info out there as he can, and would therefore mention it in the passing? It's nothing major, but it's a thought I'd gotten.

I’m not really that kind of player; I often choose to hold back certain things for various reasons, but also sometimes try to mix it up a bit. It did cross my mind to mention that I had myself forgotten about the day chat, but what use would it have been? I doubt anyone would have just taken my word for it, so I left it out.

[Luca Blight]

@Luca
There was no need for you to mention it. However, you kinda strike me as a type of player who would try to get as much info out there as he can, and would therefore mention it in the passing? It's nothing major, but it's a thought I'd gotten.

I’m not really that kind of player; I often choose to hold back certain things for various reasons, but also sometimes try to mix it up a bit. It did cross my mind to mention that I had myself forgotten about the day chat, but what use would it have been?

I doubt anyone would have just taken my word for it

, so I left it out.

Why not? A couple of other people didn't know, and nobody accused them of anything for it.

It’s not that I was worried about being accused, I just didn’t think it would be helpful - if I saw someone else claiming after the fact that they had also townslipped, would I have paid it any heed? Not really. And as I mentioned earlier, I’m not really a fan of such tests because it causes me to doubt myself, and it can play into the hands of clever, opportunistic scum. I vaguely recall a game where a scum member was given a town pass for something similar.

[Luca Blight]

I realize that "devoid of life" was a wrong way to put it, and I apologize if I did come across as too harsh.

Spoiler: marked in red

I’m very busy this weekend but will try and catch-up every now and then.

Catching up presently.

Just reading up now...

As of the start of page 7, I'm feeling pretty good about Flippy, Klick and Billy. Iconeum seemed Townie based on his start,

but I may have to revisit that slot at some point

, Tchill's contribution at the end of page 6 seems decent.

Klick's 151 is either townie or confident scum work. I'm leaning towards the former atm.

Tchili mid page 8 is either showing genuine Townie emotion or is a skilled scum player - it reminds me of my own frustration in past games.

Just skimmed the last couple of pages - gonna get myself more comfortable for some deeper reading. Right now I'm not really scumreading any of the active players, which is pretty rare for me.

The only one that falls slightly below the null line is probably Datisi based on her content, or lack thereof. Hopefully we get some replacements in soon.

Gonna read back again now.

I also agree with the 'trying to look Town' bit regarding the topic of whether we should use the full day or cut it short.

Also, as a side point, I never understand why, as a Townie, you would tell scum what you're looking out for (in this case, specifically the interactions between possible scum partners). This isn't necessarily AI in of itself as I see this kind of thing all the time, but it's just something I feel is counter-productive.

Looking over Datisi's ISO - it's full of game theory chat and passive questioning - this is where my slightly below null read originates from. The only real point of interest is 99 - Would scum do such a 'test'? Looking back at it, it felt a bit unnecessary of Datisi because Billy's answer to Klick's original question already provided the 'townslip'. I think I'm leaning towards this being an act from scum who are at a loss of what to do, so choose to do something that appears to be useful Town work, with the additional benefit of getting a Townie onside (which, if this scenario is accurate, would have been successful given Pilgrims TR of Datisi).

This is still very much a work in progress,

but my reads are something like this at the moment:

Tchill
Klick
Pilgrim, Icon, Flippy,
Datisi

Incidentally, Flippy's reaction to the same incident looked pretty genuine, which is why I've put him around the null level. I actually dislike such tests as it causes me to doubt myself; such reactions can look so effective, yet be so easily faked by a good player

So far getting positive vibes from Icon, Klick and Pilgrim. Somewhat negative vibe from Datisi.

care to expand a little bit with specifics? Cuz I honestly had no vibes at all from any of the posts I read so far (posts before this one I'm quoting)

I expanded on the Pilgrim vibes in 57. I felt positively about Icon early on mainly due to the fact he seemed to be posting without thinking too much

(I’m aware some players can do this as scum, but it’s a half-decent starting point)

. The vibes about Klick were mainly due to the ‘drunken’ posting.

Again, this could be a clever scum move but I felt it was more likely to come from a Townie.

Looking after my kid at the moment so hard for me to fully check back,

but I think I’ve covered most of the above already. I had a very slight townread on you based on the opening. By the time I made my catch-up post you hadn’t posted for like three days, nor had your ‘serious’ work at that point done much to give me a read on you either way, so I had you as null. Recently I’ve agreed with your points of view on Nippy (or rather you agreed with mine) and on Klick, plus I’ve seen some positive game advancing work from you, so I have you as a town-lean. I haven’t Iso’d you yet but that’s where i currently stand. The rest of your questions I believe I’ve covered already if you look back.

I've marked in red the parts that are pinging me. It simply seems as if he's trying to position himself in a "town-leadrer, voice of reason" position and to appear much more busy/credible than he is. Also note that these posts came after I nulled Luca.

pedit: as I said, I was willing to give him more time. I'm still not certain in this, but you've forced me to out my thoughts, so whatever.

pedit2: Billy and Emperor had single posts that pinged me more, and I was willing to jump on those to see what they mean. Luca has been slowly pinging me across the game.

It feels here like you’ve just zoomed in on the least important parts of my posts and disregarded all the necessary stuff. Do you have anything to say about the actual content of my work? The 224 and 325 examples are particularly laughable for how you ignore all the actual information and highlight the only part that fits your narrative.

[Luca Blight]

To be fair it was Icon who began pressuring Datisi. I’m not yet convinced by the Kop wagon, however; it feels like it could go either way. A quick glance at his meta show him being pretty inactive as both alignments.

[Luca Blight]

This is good to see.

Did you read my response to 366?

pedit @Luca: I don't have a problem with the content itself, as I said the tone/style is what threw me off.

pedit @Tchill:

If I'm assuming that

datisi and iconeum

are scum.

Kop and icon

seem like the type of scum that would just want a lynch to get by, without necessarily playing for the endgame.

?

Do you have any thoughts on anything relevant I’ve said all game?

[Luca Blight]

I’m getting tired of waiting for Kop now. If he doesn’t post anything meaningful in the next 12 hours I’m gonna have to request for his replacement. I can understand being busy and everything, but if you haven’t got time to play then it’s not fair on everyone else.

[Luca Blight]

Iso'ing Icon.

I can see a fair bit of Town-motivation behind a lot of his work. The only only thing I don't get is what changed his mind on Datisi at around the 371 mark? His questioning of Datisi felt genuine, but I don't get what caused him to ease up on it.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Datisi

The more I look at that reads list of hers the more I feel like it isn't genuine. I feel like it was always her intention to jump on the Kop wagon eventually but she was concerned about picking the easy target, so she stuck a half-hearted vote on me instead and then allowed herself to be

talked into

joining the easy wagon.

[Luca Blight]

I'd argue scum!Icon needs a sheep more than he needs a mislynch candidate right now, but alas. I'll bite for now.

VOTE: Kop
Also I think this is L-2, but I've lost count, so, pls no lolhammers k thx.

Remember all that stuff of mine you marked in red?

It seems like you feel guilty for this vote and are making an excuse for yourself.

[Luca Blight]

Just to clarify:

I think there's a decent chance all 3 of us are town here

Icon's motivation for Datisi:

My questioning of her is genuine. I think there's a lot of scum equity in Datisi, and her catchup post is just all scum. However, I'm a sucker for the ladies and I have a history with Datisi that makes me reconsider/hold back/use the soft gloves on her.

I thought that if I gave a bit of breathing room she would either continue to slip or start town spewing so I could better sort her.
In any case I have very little interest in letting a full slot get to D2 with TWO posts in ISO. That's bad for us.

Did I stop pressuring Datisi? Yes. Do I think Datisi is town? No.

You didn't actually mean what you said in 371?

[Luca Blight]

Do either have you have any thoughts regarding Almost50?

[Luca Blight]

either of you*

[Luca Blight]

I'm curious to know his current opinion on Datisi, given he had her as a strong Townread earlier.

[Luca Blight]

I'd argue scum!Icon needs a sheep more than he needs a mislynch candidate right now, but alas. I'll bite for now.

VOTE: Kop
Also I think this is L-2, but I've lost count, so, pls no lolhammers k thx.

Remember all that stuff of mine you marked in red?

It seems like you feel guilty for this vote and are making an excuse for yourself.

I meant that I said. Scum!Icon needs a sheep more than a mislynch.

Could you explain this comment, please.

[Luca Blight]

@Datisi, the point of the comment I marked red was that you were allowing yourself to be talked onto the easy wagon while, using the fact you were sheeping someone you ‘mistrust’ to excuse yourself of blame. At least, that’s how it felt to me.

[Luca Blight]

@Datisi, the point of the comment I marked red was that you were allowing yourself to be talked onto the easy wagon, while using the fact you were sheeping someone you ‘mistrust’ to excuse yourself of blame. At least, that’s how it felt to me.

Ebwop (apologies, phone posting isn’t my speciality).

[Luca Blight]

I’m gonna catch up on this properly Tomorrow when I have access to a computer, but I just want to know why you think my Datisi vote ‘fucking sucks’?

[Luca Blight]

54 - I didn’t feel like I needed to have a stance? I was trying to move the game out of RVS, which is what I always try and do.

85 - how the fuck is that throwing shade?

I’m gonna have to address this bits at a time because I’m on my phone and limited 3g atm.

[Luca Blight]

214 - of course it could go either way, given I don’t know his alignment? I gave an opinion, but I’m not gonna pretend to be massively confident about a read on the first few pages.

224 - It doesn’t just kind of suck - I explained exactly how I came to that conclusion. You may disagree, fine, but try and have a little respect at least.

[Luca Blight]

318 - Klick was a topic of discussion at that time, so I iso’d him to see exactly where i stood on him. Earlier you called me scummy for being unsure of my Klick read, and now you’re calling me scummy for giving a solid, more confident townread on Klick. That is contradictory BS on your part.

[Luca Blight]

488 - opportunistic? Yeah right. I’ve been consistent on my Datisi read throughout.

And yet I wasn’t opportunistic on Kop’s wagon (of which you know the alignment already). You don’t mention this, however, as it doesn’t fit your narrative.

[Luca Blight]

318 - Klick was a topic of discussion at that time, so I iso’d him to see exactly where i stood on him. Earlier you called me scummy for being unsure of my Klick read, and now you’re calling me scummy for giving a solid, more confident townread on Klick. That is contradictory BS on your part.

here let me transcribe what your post here essentially is
This post - oh this post is a town post
This post - this post is also town
This post - and so is this one
This post - and this one also

Did anything you say add anything to the game?
No.

And guess what
In that exact same post, you STILL gave yourself room to turn that read into a scumread.

I do believe I added something to the game - the fact that Klick was the one who actually did the test (not Datisi) and that he didn’t try to take credit for it. No-one else had touched upon these points.

What is wrong with saying multiple posts are townie when Iso’ing someone? I said it exactly how I saw it.

[Luca Blight]

488 - opportunistic? Yeah right. I’ve been consistent on my Datisi read throughout.

And yet I wasn’t opportunistic on Kop’s wagon (of which you know the alignment already). You don’t mention this, however, as it doesn’t fit your narrative.

and you didn’t vote her earlier because?????????????????????

My read on her wasn’t that strong (given she had hardly any content) until after her reads list and Kop vote. I believe I’ve explained everything with regards to Datisi already.

[Luca Blight]

Waaaaah my vote isn’t opportunistic my read on her was there before the vote I totally didn’t vote her just then because the wagon was gaining momentum waaaaaah

Ofc you’re not going to vote Kop, no one is going to hammer a slot who wasn’t posting.
I’m flipping town and considering how the day is currently being played out, that brings a lot of attention to you that you don’t want.

Voting my biggest scumread when their wagon was gaining momentum is scummy? It felt pretty natural to me.

I believe if I was scum and Kop was Town then I would have handled that situation differently - I wouldn’t have called for him to be replaced for a start, when his dodgy flippy vote already gave grounds for suspicion.

[Luca Blight]

It clearly wasn’t that obvious, given most people thought Datisi was the one who did the test.

You need to grow up, it feels like I’m arguing with a toddler.

[Luca Blight]

If you’re Town then you’re a nasty piece of work. Either way, I’m done with this argument.

[Luca Blight]

I have thick skin enough, don’t worry, but basic manners/respect wouldn’t go amiss.

The point about Klick was that it seemed genuine due to his read progression - I’m not sure how you’re not grasping that point.

[Luca Blight]

But it was new at the time of writing, and your original point was that I hadn’t added anything new.

Stop moving the goalposts.

[Luca Blight]

If you’re saying that giving a read and valid reasons (ones which you seem to agree with) for it isn’t adding to the game then I don’t know what else to say to you.

I think your contributions have been pretty shit myself, but now I’m descending to your level of rudeness so I really should end this discussion.

[Luca Blight]

Its not new to me
You’re not adding anything new to the game.

But yeah, I’m sure that 1 point must mean that you’re ISO is full of very useful contribut-
Oh wait a minute
You’re contributions are awful and you’re scum

But it was new at the time of writing, and your original point was that I hadn’t added anything new.

Stop moving the goalposts.

like, are you trying to manipulate people?
Are you TRYING to be dishonest?
Calling something “new” when all anyone has to do is read the game isn’t useful contributions. You’re just paying attention to the game more. You’re not trying to analyze it or come up with any read that is even remotely nuanced.
Everything you’ve posted is super shallow and it sucks

Do you understand the concept of Iso’ing someone?

And I was ‘analyzing’, I mean that is literally what I was doing, I’m not sure how you can pretend otherwise.

[Luca Blight]

Btw you never explained how I was throwing shade in 85? Was they just put in to pad your terrible case out or what?

[Luca Blight]

At this point no, I’m not trying to change your mind, because you’re either scum or confbiasing beyond reason.

[Luca Blight]

You have now twice dodged my question about post 85 - how was I throwing shade?

[Luca Blight]

That’s the third time you’ve avoided the question, so I’m going to assume you can’t answer it and that you did indeed just throw it in to pad out your terrible case.

[Luca Blight]

And yet your biggest townread has clearly done a lot less than I have.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: alisae

I find it hard to believe a Townie could be so unreasonable.

[Luca Blight]

I can’t remember playing with you before, but I would expect any Townie to at least be open to the possibility that they might be wrong. The strange amount of certainty you seem to have and your unwillingness to even question your reads (which were formed pretty hastily) is a scumtell, in my opinion. I really can’t believe right now that the discussion I just had was with a Town player.

[Luca Blight]

Was your point that I was throwing shade in 85 a mistake or do you have anything to back it up?

And no, I don’t expect you to change your mind because I don’t believe you’re Town.

[Luca Blight]

At the start I thought it was possible you were Town therefore it was possible to change your mind, but I no longer believe that. Whatever I’ve said you have just dismissed it or changed the argument, or entirely ignored what I’ve said.

I’ve played with stubborn players in my time, but never someone who has been so sure about something from such hastily assembled reads without a moment’s doubt. It isn’t natural.

[Luca Blight]

And your Datisi read doesn’t make sense to me; I would expect a townie in your position to have at least some suspicion of that slot, yet you seem to have zero.

[Luca Blight]

You say you don’t see what changed, but I literally explained it - it’s not as if I just voted her without further explanation.

[Luca Blight]

Almost50 - can I get an update on your Datisi read?

[Luca Blight]

Alisae, have you thought of an answer as to why you said my 85 post was throwing shade yet? Or are you going to avoid this question for a fifth (or is it sixth) time?

[Luca Blight]

Why not just admit you were wrong?

I will try and explain my Datisi progression a bit clearer when I’m on a computer in a few hours.

[Luca Blight]

I’m not wrong

Then why do you deliberately avoid the question?

[Luca Blight]

I don’t buy this - for the first four times I asked the question you completely ignored it, and now you’re trying to play it off as a joke.

You fabricated the shading in 85 and you’re trying to brush it off like it didn’t happen.

[Luca Blight]

Literally how the fuck is it shading? I was giving my experience (or lack thereof) of townblocs for Pilgrim’s benefit.

If you’re implying I’m shading Klick then that is nonsense, especially as I’ve said that I townread him partly for that remark (which you used as another thing to shade me over)

[Luca Blight]

Almost50 - can I get an update on your Datisi read?

It's on this same page! Post 702

Could you elaborate a bit on the Townread?

[Luca Blight]

I honestly can't tell of Luca's wrath is genuine town frustration or genuine scum caught for the wrong reasons.

@Luca: Can you calm down and remember it's a game? Also, can you talk to someone else other than Ali? I mean, state your case(s) but address me for instance.

Me calm down? My wrath? If you read the argument from about 7 hours ago you’ll see I’m not the aggressor here.

And I literally have been talking to you about Datisi just now?

[Luca Blight]

Almost50 - can I get an update on your Datisi read?

It's on this same page! Post 702

Could you elaborate a bit on the Townread?

While I was catching up, there was a time where everything that sprung on my mind was also said by Datisi in-thread. Every single thought "I would have" brought up at that precise time she brought up around the same time.

I also agree the wagon on her formed too easily that I can hardly see without scum at least contributing to it.

I can’t remember Datisi doing anything of note early game minus the ‘test’, which had already been done by Klick. What else did you agree with?

[Luca Blight]

Like seriously
If you’re actually town
Why would you give a fuck about post 85
Its so insignificant in the grand scheme of things that I could make up any kind of bullshit I want about any post that was super early in the game and he would be furious about it
Like, don’t you think town here would think “Okay, maybe its not so important and I’ll just move on”
Instead, it gives scum!Luca an opportunity to make a really big deal about something that isn’t really a big deal at all

I ‘give a fuck’ because you used it to pad out your case and it was nonsense. The fact you deliberately ignored my question regarding it made it seem disingenuous to say the least - I would expect a Townie is this situation to either admit their error or back it up with their thought process.

[Luca Blight]

Almost, why did 58 ping you as Town? And what do you make of her later work, following the Icon pressure?

[Luca Blight]

I have to get my son ready for school, will check back in about two hours.

[Luca Blight]

I'm asking for elaboration - everything you've said on Datisi so far has been vague.

[Luca Blight]

And just because you happen to share the thoughts of 58, to base a townread on it is really weak - she said nothing that hadn't already been said at this point (including by myself in 54).

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

========
Scum
========

Luca - His whole ISO sucks. Nothing in there is actually substanial at all. All of his reads come across as making stuff up on the fly (a lot of times when he is talking about a read, he gives himself room for said read to go either way). He's not really taking any risks and is in general playing really safe. I really want to see Luca go after something instead of just do nothing. Because a lot of what his ISO is nothing. And anything that like, remotely looks like analysis is really surface level stuff.
54 is just a gut scummy start mostly because I don't like the fact he has to feel like he has to have a stance first thing.
His shade in 85 is bad and comes across as scummy.
The Klick stance in 214 just sucks because the way he presents it, it really seems like it could go either way depending on what happens.
224 kind of just sucks. I'm not buying the "scum who is at a loss of what to do" narative at all because when I was reading that, I was generally liking that interaction with Billy.
318 is bad because its him just saying that Klick is town over and over again. The individual points aren't anything thats new. Also in the way its presented itself, I dislike this because he's just saying the samething over and over again. Like, he's trying to look like he's solving, but nothing in that post is actually adding anything new to the game. Its just non-stop praise and I don't like it.
Also apparently, accoriding to you, 325 contains content but it doesn't? Like, that can be faked.
488 is opportunistic. The narative being built here sucks. The vote is just scum.

I will summarize why this case 'fucking sucks' (to coin a phrase).

54 - This is a misrep; nowhere did I say or imply that I felt the need to have a stance (in fact I did the opposite, by saying I normally keep my cards close to my chest early on). My meta is pretty out of date but if you look at any of my previous games you'll probably find that I try and move the game out of RVS as soon as possible; I like to get down to the nitty gritty straight away. That's just how I approach the early game.

85 - I didn't throw shade at all, and the fact that Alisae has avoided my question to explain this not only shows that she fabricated it, but it's just sketchy behaviour in general.

214 - I gave a firm opinion on Klick, but obviously from my perspective it could go either way - I wasn't trying to pretend otherwise. Many times in the past I've been fooled by very convincing scum players, so I always carry around with me the thought that I could be wrong.

224 - I explained this one pretty well already; I felt like Klick was the one who actually did the test and was genuine in his intentions, while Datisi just kind of jumped on it and stole his thunder. This was the only meaningful thing she did until she was called out, so I think my comment was pretty fair.

318 - It's called Iso'ing - it's a standard practice in Mafia. I re-read the Iso giving my thoughts as they came to me, some new, some thoughts that were already established. This is also a complete contradiction to your earlier point that I'm scum because I didn't have a frm stance on Klick - make your mind up.

325 - err, I gave a read and my reasoning behind it. That is pretty much the definition of content.

488 - I will go into more detail about my Datisi progression soon, but it wasn't in the least opportunistic. I could have readily placed my vote on Datisi at any time.

[Luca Blight]

@Luca: Let's say we somehow agreed Datisi doesn't get lynched today. Now who would be your pick for the lynch?

I'll give you one guess.

[Luca Blight]

I'd still like more information about your thoughts on Datisi after being pressured - what specifically reinforced your Townread on her? I feel like it's important because she hadn't given much content in this game prior to this, so I want to understand exactly why you think she is Town.

[Luca Blight]

My Datisi read progression:

54 - I had slightly negative early vibes on Datisi early on; nothing significant, but I threw it out there in an attempt to get the ball rolling.

215 - I reaffirm my slightly negative view on Datisi, this time more based on the lack of content.

224 - I decide to Iso Datisi in an attempt to establish a firmer read. The context here is that I had been scumreading Flippy and close to voting him until his 'townslip', when I reviewed it, gave me pause for thought, so I decided to look in the direction of my other 'below null' read. In this post I was genuinely trying to establish whether Datisi had town motivation behind her 'test', which as I've said is the only thing of significance she had done by this point. Possibly biased by the fact I had so many TR's and so few SR's at this point, I interpreted it more likely as being scum at a loss for what to do to look Townie. Certainly I could see a mindset of 'if I make it look like I deliberately caused a townslip, I will look Townie myself'. Klick's test had a more genuine feel due to the fact he unvoted Pilgrim yet didn't immediately explain, and therefore try to take credit for the test.

By this point in the game I'm also becoming increasingly aware that Datisi is ignoring everything I'm saying about her. Incidentally, I read in the scum chat of one her previous games where she asked her partner if she should ignore the scumreads she was getting - this gave me a slight ping, but I wanted to keep it to myself at this point to see how it developed.

349 and 351 - I thought it didn't quite add up that she had given no signs of scumreading me at all (quite the contrary, in fact) and yet now she was saying my posts have been fake the whole time.

409 - I felt this was a bit ridiculous from Datisi. Fair enough she's being pressed to expand on a read that she isn't entirely sure on, but she really did just go through my posts and nitpick the most insignificant things. In some of them, she ignored the entire content of the post and marked in red something insignificant to the meaning of what was said like 'This is a work in progress'. It felt a little bit desperate and not very sincere.

488 - I was reading back on Datisi's work and really didn't like her Kop vote or her reads list, for reasons already explained. Kop was L-1 and inactive, while there appeared to be interest in a Datisi lynch, so why would I, as Town, not place my vote here now? In case you're wondering why I hadn't earlier, it was because I had been multi-tasking while phone-posting, meaning I hadn't had a chance to completely digest what had happened. When I had a bit of free time and looked back over it again, I felt pretty good about putting my vote there.

As of this moment I still haven't fully digested what happened recently with Datisi/Ali. I'm going to look back over this in a bit.

[Luca Blight]

I'd still like more information about your thoughts on Datisi after being pressured - what specifically reinforced your Townread on her? I feel like it's important because she hadn't given much content in this game prior to this, so I want to understand exactly why you think she is Town.

As I said.. I may be biased. I had been in that exact situation with Iconeum before.. and more than once, and every time it turns out we're both town. I did explain it, and I did say I could be wrong because I am biased but that's how I feel.

I can understand why you're Townreading Icon for this, but to townread Datisi for it makes no sense unless there's something she particularly did or said that made you think she is Town.

Sympathy, yes, but Townread? I don't get it.

[Luca Blight]

Maybe I'm mixing sympathy with a TR, but you're forgetting about the other factor now: The speed her wagon built up vs how slow Kop's wagon formed.

How is this relevant, given Kop was inactive, and given he was replaced by Ali who you seem to Townread?

[Luca Blight]

And since that Datisi wagon there has been a pretty big tidal shift as well, which suggests a struggle.

Btw, I can see scum motivation behind Ali regardless of Datisi's alignment; obviously if they're both scum then the motivation is obvious. If Ali is scum and Datisi is Town then either way the result would turn out pretty well for scum; I'm lynched and then Datisi is vulnerable, and if Datisi is lynched and flips Town then Ali can continue the tunnel on me with added enthusiasm. I could imagine this scenario is a game where there are so few mislynch targets available.

[Luca Blight]

I am not saying Kop was scum. I am saying this town isn't the type of town to rush for a wagon. That is what Kop's wagon tells me.
Now why would that mentality suddenly change with Datisi? It's not like we have a Cop Guilty on her. Right? So it follows that wagon was more likely supported by scum. Scum are usually reluctant to join wagons on an inactive because and inactive is no threat to them. It's easier to line them up for a mislynch down the road than to flip them on D1. Scum join wagons with cases on them, and most likely cases that have been pushed by others (i.e. by town) so that when the lynchee flips town they can go back and blame that townie and get them mislynched next.

I know if I were scum this game and the Kop slot was Town, I would have been licking my lips. I would not have requested replacement for him. I know the fact that I'm the one pointing this out opens it up for WIFOM, but I feel like it would have been counter-intuitive scum play.

The Kop wagon wasn't rushed because he made a grand total of 2 posts the whole game. It was pointless from my persepctive to vote an inactive player. You're right that an inactive player isn't a threat to scum, but a replacement potentially is (see my point above?)

I agree that scum join wagons with cases on them - see Datisi being 'talked into' joining the Kop wagon?

I was the last one on the Datisi wagon, yet I was the one with the biggest case on her, so that doesn't really apply to me.

What do you think of my explanation for voting Datisi above?

[Luca Blight]

Presuming Datisi is up for voting me, I would be L-1, so pretty much in danger, I'd say. Any thoughts on what I said, anyway?

I haven't yet clicked on the link you have so kindly presented, but I'd be interested to know how you feel Ali would have approached the game had she replaced in as scum?

P,edit: I am being scumread it seems mainly due to my Datisi vote, so it's not really 'preemptive' defence.

[Luca Blight]

How does everyone feel about Nippleflips?

I didn't scumread him previously, but the longer this day goes on the more obvious his sidelining becomes.

From my experience in mislynches (and being mislynched), scum often tends to be exactly where this dude is: participating without actually discussing

He's pretty much my

'compromise lynch'

option for today if we're not lynching Datisi, POE being the reason. I'm feeling inclined to take Almost50's view on Ali on-board for now.

[Luca Blight]

Luca, a lot of your townread on me seems to stem from the fact that you didn't think I'd bring as much attention to myself as I did early on. How does that contrast with your view of Alisae's play?

That was that starting point for my read, but the main reason was that your progression on your Pilgrim read felt genuine.

Ali is a different kettle of fish; I always feel replacing into a game is quite different from starting it. I've seen it on a few occasions where a player (who turns out to be scum) replaces in and goes completely wild. There could be a few possible motivations for this, but as I said I'm not going to dwell on Ali too much for the time being.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

My Datisi read progression:

54 - I had

slightly negative early vibes

on Datisi early on; nothing significant, but I threw it out there in an attempt to get the ball rolling.

215 - I reaffirm my

slightly negative view

on Datisi, this time more based on the lack of content.

224 - I decide to Iso Datisi in an attempt to establish a firmer read. The context here is that I had been scumreading Flippy and close to voting him until his 'townslip', when I reviewed it, gave me pause for thought, so I decided to look in the direction of my other 'below null' read. In this post I was genuinely trying to establish whether Datisi had town motivation behind her 'test', which as I've said is the only thing of significance she had done by this point. Possibly biased by the fact I had so many TR's and so few SR's at this point, I interpreted it more likely as being scum at a loss for what to do to look Townie. Certainly I could see a mindset of 'if I make it look like I deliberately caused a townslip, I will look Townie myself'. Klick's test had a more genuine feel due to the fact he unvoted Pilgrim yet didn't immediately explain, and therefore try to take credit for the test.

By this point in the game I'm also becoming increasingly aware that Datisi is ignoring everything I'm saying about her. Incidentally, I read in the scum chat of one her previous games where she asked her partner if she should ignore the scumreads she was getting - this gave me a slight ping, but I wanted to keep it to myself at this point to see how it developed.

349 and 351 -

I thought it didn't quite add up that she had given no signs of scumreading me at all

(quite the contrary, in fact) and yet now she was saying my posts have been fake the whole time.

What you failed to mention however, is that in that game RC came out with me as his strongest SR (rightfully so - my play was godawful) and kept continuously pushing me, and I was trying to ignore that. You, however, have expressed having "very slightly negative vibes" on me twice. Was I supposed to jump onto that?

Also, you say how me ignoring your "negative vibes" is what made you doubt me,

but you decided to not say anything to see how that developed

.

Yet your literal next sentence is saying how you thought it was weird that I was "sudeenly SRing you", even though I had said that I wanted to give you some time to see if I would be getting better vibes from you.

VOTE: Luca
.

I would have expected you, if you were Town, to engage with me at least after I had Iso’d you. There seemed to be no curiosity on your part as to whether my thoughts were coming from a genuine place or not.

Regarding the second and third paragraphs (nice effects with the bold and italics btw), is your point that I held something back and am therefore scummy for being suspicious over you doing the same thing?

[Luca Blight]

@Luca
That is true. However,
1) your ISO analysis made it sound like "everything's still a work in progrss", "it's a slight SL" etc. I was risking being called defensive.
2) I wanted to wait for more material from you to either make my suspicion of you go away or to help me realize how to explain why I think you're suspicious.

Yes, that's my point.

Btw, you say you checked my scum game (where I was ignoring the SR's on me). Have you checked my Town games? Game theory chat and passive questioning is well within my Town game.

I can see your point, although, as I said previously, it was more the ‘Luca isn’t pinging me as scum’ posts etc that pinged me in relation to your later revelation. It felt at the time like you just plucked that read out of thin air in desperation.

Is this the main reason you now think I’m scum, or is it still due to the ‘fakeness’? And how confident are you on your read?

[Luca Blight]

Sorry, I forgot to answer your last question . I did check out your meta generally but my memory of it is foggy, I’ll re-check.

[Luca Blight]

@Luca
That is true. However,
1) your ISO analysis made it sound like "everything's still a work in progrss", "it's a slight SL" etc. I was risking being called defensive.
2) I wanted to wait for more material from you to either make my suspicion of you go away or to help me realize how to explain why I think you're suspicious.

Yes, that's my point.

Btw, you say you checked my scum game (where I was ignoring the SR's on me). Have you checked my Town games? Game theory chat and passive questioning is well within my Town game.

I can see your point, although, as I said previously, it was more the ‘Luca isn’t pinging me as scum’ posts etc that pinged me in relation to your later revelation. It felt at the time like you just plucked that read out of thin air in desperation.

Is this the main reason you now think I’m scum, or is it still due to the ‘fakeness’? And how confident are you on your read?

And you feel like scum!Datisi saw you as the easiest target to attack?

I still feel like your posts have an unatural fabricated feel to them that I can't explain. The "double standard" isn't the main reason, but it is contributing. And the fact how you seem almost... obsessed with me? You kept insisting that A50 explain his TR on me, it made me feel like you were just waiting for him to say something less vague just so you can debunk it.

I'm not really confident, because this whole game is still a mess for me, but if I could choose a D1 lynch, I'd prefer it to be you.

No, not at all - as I explained previously, I thought your initial vote on me was half-hearted and that you always intended to jump on the Kop wagon eventually.

I’m not obsessed, I was questioning Almost about you because I was genuinely interested in how he formed his Townread on you, for I couldn’t really see it myself. I think it’s quite natural to question why someone is strongly townreading my biggest scumread?

[Luca Blight]

Even better, drawing attention to myself with a poor SR that I keep claiming I don't know how to explain. Outstanding move for scum indeed.

And did him saying he shares my thoughts satisfy you?

I never claimed it was a great scum move - as I said it felt like desperation at the time.

It didn’t do anything to change my mind about your slot, but I’m townreading A50 generally.

[Luca Blight]

Billy, is my explanation for the timing of my vote believable to you; that I was multi-tasking and phone-posting at the time of the Datisi pressure (I’m clearly not making this bit up as I mentioned it just prior to the drama) and then proceeded to vote the following day when I had digested what had happened and had computer access to properly review what had occurred?

[Luca Blight]

@Luca
I recall you mentioning somewhere that you also felt it was natural to vote for your SR once the wagon on them started building up?

Yes, that is true. Is it not natural? Why as Town would I refrain from voting there?

[Luca Blight]

Billy, you’re holding the fact that I was unsure of my very early reads against me? I think I’ve been in the same boat as most in this game in that I’ve had many Townread and few good scumreads. The further the game has progressed the more sure of my reads I’ve become, and I have expressed this.

[Luca Blight]

It feels more natural for Town to vote right away. Your biggest SR just made an awful case on why you're scum? You vote first, ask questions later.

Remember, at this time you still weren’t that big of a scumread; it was only after this episode (after I had time to digest what had occurred) that that was the case.

[Luca Blight]

At the time the drama unfolded (where I was expected to have voted Datisi) I was looking after my two year old in a public playground while typing on my phone, hence I was barely able to keep up with the live developments at the time. Is it so hard to believe that under such circumstances I would rather wait until getting on a computer before making sense of what had just happened? As I stated earlier, I try to play the game on a logical level and don’t tend to make rash decisions unless there’s good reason to.

[Luca Blight]

Billy, is my explanation for the timing of my vote believable to you; that I was multi-tasking and phone-posting at the time of the Datisi pressure (I’m clearly not making this bit up as I mentioned it just prior to the drama) and then proceeded to vote the following day when I had digested what had happened and had computer access to properly review what had occurred?

It's believable, but I don't think it makes it better. She was already your top scumlean 224. Then from 345 through to 357 you are building your scum read up, and even quoting old posts (I only play on mobile so I know that that shit is hard). So I don't know how mobile posting excuses you not voting based on conviction when you can build a case and quote history. Then the post immediately before you vote Datisi, you shade Icon for hopping off, and then he hops on 2 posts later after saying he never left the SR of Datisi. Honestly your defense about multitasking and mobile posting may make it worse. Even if it's true, why would that impact your ability to vote your read?

I’m not a robot where I make optimal play after optimal play. I don’t know what more I can do to explain this situation but I feel I’ve done my best here. Regarding the mobile, I’m not used to playing on it (especially while multi-tasking) so I tend to save the longer winded stuff until I can write it up properly.

I wasn’t shading Icon - I was genuinely wondering why he had seemingly changed his mind at the time - he answered it, I moved on.

[Luca Blight]

And as I’ve said a hundred times, the conviction came after i had digested what had happened, not before.

[Luca Blight]

And yet everything I’ve said is consistent and has been backed-up.

[Luca Blight]

If you notice, I’ve not had to pause to think amongst this barrage of questioning and accusation, and yet everything I’ve said has been fully supported and consistent with what I’ve said previously. How is this possible? Because I’m being honest with what I’m saying.

[Luca Blight]

Datisi, I’ve already explained how I was multi-tasking and wanted to have a chance to properly look over what had happened. If I had just gone straight ahead and acted without thinking it over (which isn’t my style) then that would probably have come to be held against me as well.

[Luca Blight]

I would have a perfectly valid grounds to vote Datisi earlier, but there was literally no rush to make this move.

[Luca Blight]

Would have had*

[Luca Blight]

If I were scum i literally wouldn’t even try to play Mafia while multi-tasking; i would just have waited until I had time to think about what I was doing, to avoid a situation such as this.

[Luca Blight]

I really don’t get what difference it makes exactly when I made the vote; I have made my position on Datisi clear throughout. Delaying my vote wouldn’t have made a difference in terms of accountability.

[Luca Blight]

I’ve just tried to be as transparently clear as I can possibly be here. I hate having to defend myself as i know self-defence can only go so far, but I feel like I’ve given a pretty valid explanation for how my Datisi read progressed.

[Luca Blight]

Billy who else is scum and why if you don't think its icon sell me on something

I started typing out a reads list, then j realized I'm still mostly confused. I see how Icon doesn't look good in that interaction, but I've seen Icon play that style before and he was town. I like to look at voting behavior more than anything else personally.

A50, why did Luca's answers seem sufficient to you? Was it just the tone?

okay lets talk voting behavoir
who sticks out?

Unfortunately my work calendar just exploded, so before I do vote analysis, I need to be done at work and have the kids asleep. Probably 12 hours.

You want to save your analysis until you have time to do it properly, just like I did, so surely you can relate to my situation after all.

[Luca Blight]

But we don’t all play the game the same way, and I still wanted to catch-up properly before committing to a vote.

[Luca Blight]

Fuck sake, I remember why I stopped playing this game now.

[Luca Blight]

There has been so much shit posted recently and I'm completely fed up with this game at the moment, so I'm gonna organise the relevant recent material into this post and then leave it be.

754 - why Alisae's 'case' against me is terrible.

760 - The progression on my Datisi read

764, 765 and 768 - The reason why the VCA is worthless.

890 (etc) - further explanation behind the timing of my Datisi vote.

This shouldn't even need pointing out, but given Datisi has claimed VT and is still very much a dubious slot, and a lynch that would produce a lot of information, it is pretty standard practice to make this the D1 lynch. Even if Datisi were Town, which I feel is unlikely, it would be in Mafia's interest to push another lynch after her VT claim. The reason I'm so frustrated is that one, possibly two townies have taken on board this complete reach of an argument against me and played into scum's hands. I have given a full and frank explanation for why I voted like I did, and there is evidence to back this up. Given this is the case, it makes no logical sense to lynch me instead of Datisi today.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Datisi

[Luca Blight]

With regards to my defence of myself being ‘scumclaims’, I’ve genuinely felt my frustration in this game boil over to the point where I’ve felt the need to bluntly point out certain things that mean I’m Town, and certainly mean I shouldn’t be the Day 1 Lynch. I actually cringe a little looking back at some of it, but it was born out of complete exasperation.

I’m starting to get the feeling that Datisi might be Town after all, and that at least one scum is sitting in the quieter half of the Town. I’m particularly looking at Flippy who has been conspicuous only by his absence since Alisae began her tunnel on me. I’m becoming paranoid that I might have been wrong about Tchill as well. I’m feeling almost resigned to the fact that I’m going to be today’s Lynch given how it’s shaping up, but I’m gonna try and leave some decent reads behind anyway.

[Luca Blight]

@ Datisi: I’ve only skimmed the recent pages, but it’s just a feeling I got from your interaction with Icon. I will try and review it later.

You’re a player that has divided opinion, therefore it would naturally be an informative Lynch. Mine would be also for the same reason, but the difference is that you have claimed VT and I haven’t, and I feel like I’ve done nothing to warrant being lynched on D1, but then perhaps I’m biased on that.

[Luca Blight]

Okay.
So if I flipped VT, what would you take away from that?
If I flipped Mafia, what would you take away from that?

This really is a case of ‘i’ll cross that bridge when I come to it’. I think it’s fairly obvious that information could be gleaned from either one of our lynches, regardless of the outcome.

[Luca Blight]

Okay.
So if I flipped VT, what would you take away from that?
If I flipped Mafia, what would you take away from that?

This really is a case of ‘i’ll cross that bridge when I come to it’. I think it’s fairly obvious that information could be gleaned from either one of our lynches, regardless of the outcome.

This reply isn't sitting well with me though. As if you're afraid to actually say what you're thinking becuase someone might disagree.

I promise you, I couldn’t care less if someone disagreed with me. It’s happened so often recently that I’m fairly desensitized to it. I just can’t be arsed going over pure speculation; I’m having a hard enough time dealing with the current state of this game.

[Luca Blight]

Okay, fine, but your posts can also be taken as "Datisi's lynch, whatever she flips, would provide us lots of information. I won't state that information now. But it definitely would. Also she's already claimed so lynch her please."

I’ve already stated that standard D1 play would be to Lynch you here. I also just said I now think you might be Town, so that is a very strange way to take that post.

[Luca Blight]

I’ve already said I have a townread on A50 - that’s the reason I stopped considering your Lynch for today, because I feel like he’s being genuine in his view.

[Luca Blight]

@Datiti - the fact I’m still voting you is because I haven’t found a better place to put it. It’s not like you’re in imminent danger or anything, and unvoting for the sake of it has never been something I’ve done, but if it makes you feel better:

UNVOTE:

On second thoughts, there might be a better place for it.

VOTE: Flippy

[Luca Blight]

@luca

Why has your datisi read disappeared? Why Are you needing a better place to put it and why are you becoming paranoid about me?

@alisae

You never "returned serve" on my explanations for town Luca.

It’s just a feeling I’m getting; it’s actually been building for a while now but the gamestate felt so rigid that I was perhaps reluctant to listen to it. I will try and explain it when I have time.

I haven’t read too deeply the recent pages, but something Icon said about you townreading me yet not really defending me planted the thought in my mind. Also the fact you’ve been so quiet recently ( along with a few others). Activity is obviously NAI because there could be any number of reasons for it, but I can’t help but feel paranoid when certain players go missing during important stages in the game. Flippy in particular has completely stepped out of the firing line. I also jus get the sense that you’re a really good player and someone who could have me fooled. I haven’t ISO’d you yet but these are just my views as of this very moment.

[Luca Blight]

The first paragraph was regarding Datisi, in case that wasn’t clear.

[Luca Blight]

Looking at Flippy’s recent posts I feel pretty happy lynching this slot today. I get that this game has become more difficult to follow since Alisae replaced in, but I feel like he’s using it as a bit of a cover/excuse to not take any hard stances on the current affairs. He’s being really on the fence with regards to the main wagons (mine and Datisi’s) and I feel he has been slowly getting himself into position to vote for me. If he is indeed scum, I could imagine his plan being to compromise on my Lynch near deadline, knowing that tomorrow the people who so heavily pushed my wagon would be the more likely to come under suspicion.

[Luca Blight]

Even though you don’t seem to scumread me particularly, I’m the main wagon as we head towards deadline, yet you don’t seem too bothered about the situation.

[Luca Blight]

This kind of goes back to my original point - you could be quite genuine in having fallen behind in the game, but you could also quite easily be using it to excuse yourself from taking a stance as we head towards the business end of the day.

Your involvement in the game fell off a cliff the moment Alisae entered and went all guns blazing on me. I could imagine that if you were scum and me and Alisae are both Town, that you wouldn’t want to do anything to get in the way of such a situation.

When do you expect to catch-up?

[Luca Blight]

Wait Luca when did you vote me? & is it cos of the reasons you were just saying?

A couple of pages ago. I’ve held the opinion for a while now that I would only consider lynching either Datisi or you today, and Datisi has been growing on me as being more likely Town.

I’m still skeptical of you for the same reasons you came under suspicion earlier in the day, and your lack of involvement since Alisae replaced in has increased my doubt over your slot.

[Luca Blight]

I’ve already talked about that above.

[Luca Blight]

The reasons why I'm now feeling Datisi is more likely Town:

420 - Looking back, the fact she agrees wth the basis of mosts of the thing I've said yet still maintains the gut scumread on me seems sincere; doing this as scum would only make her scumread a harder sell.

855 - I don't agree with her reasons for scumreading me here, but it doesn't feel like she's reaching or stretching the reasoning. I also don't agree with her reasoning for townreading Ali here (as I said, it would be beneficial for scum to defend Datisi in this situation) but again I can sort of see why she thinks this.

859 - Pertient question to discover Billy' motive.

871 This has an honest, Townie feeling to it.

1021 - I like the question to Icon at the end.

Reading over the Icon/Datisi interaction, I get the feeling they are both Town who are genuiely trying to work each other out. To be fair though, Icon has been a very comfortable townread since before Ali's replace-in: The Town-motivation is so clear to see from his posts that I can't understand why people are scumreading him.

1037 - I can understand this POV.

1049 - Both of her points here have a Townie-feel to them, particularly her point that Icon's actions likely mean he has no agenda behind them.

1066 and 1069 - I like the progression here - questioning the mindset and then logically reconsidering her read.

I could go on, but I feel pretty good about Datisi being Town right now. My vote is pretty well glued to Flippy for today, because I literally have no scumread on anyone else.

[Luca Blight]

I'm starting to really get a feeling that the scumteam is Tchill/Flippy. This is partly based on POE, but also because of the following I've outlined below.

From about 108, Flippy starts going after Tchill early on based on next to nothing. This seemed a Townie move by Nippy at the time, because if we take the scenrio of Tchill being Town and Flippy being scum then it would be unnecessarily risking making an enemy early on D1.

184 - This was a good point by Tchill against Flippy, and this was a big reason why I had an early TR on Tchill; because his argument against Flippy was legit.

187 Again, good points about Flippy, but now he's giving him an 'out' - a scenario where he could be Town despite everything he has said.

195 - Another good point against Flippy

208 - Ends the interest in pursuing Flippy. Just like Tchill's point about Icon and Datisi being possible partners because Icon dropped his push, the same could apply here. The Icon and Datisi situation seems a lot more pure, however, as they have been trying to work each other out throughout the game, whereas Flippy and Tchill pretty much leave each other be (or defend each other) after this.

234 Now, just as the pressure is cranking up on Flippy, Tchill jumps in to defend him. The reason why he is able to commit to such a defence is due to the early distancing work.

235 - Begins his focus on Datisi in an attempt to take the pressure off of Flippy.

321, 403 - Shades Klick. Nothing massively wrong with this, but in a game where there are so few ML targets I could understand wanting to create a bit more doubt over certain players.

410, 411 - Begins the Icon/Datisi association.

Around the 977 mark, Tchill is being consistent with his TR of me, but seems pretty passive about the situation, given how hard my lynch is being pushed at this point.

I completely disagree with 995 - The Datisi/Icon interaction seemed genuine to me.

996 -

"I don't see how you can debate in a hypothetical where icon, Datisi, and Luca were all town."

- I really don't see why we couldn't all be town (in fact I now believe we all are).

1170 - Defends Flippy and tries to get me back on the Datisi wagon.

1235 - Calls for a Datisi lynch again, seems a bit desperate now.

[Luca Blight]

To sum up, I believe Tchill and Flippy intentionally distanced themselves from each other early on, which in turn gave reason for them to be townread for being aggressive/pushing the game forawrd without risking a making a Town enemy in the process. I have literally done the same thing as this as scum myself in the past - it's so much easier to be aggressive as scum against your partner early on than it is against a Townie. They then call a 'truce', and when Flippy's wagon was actually being seriously pushed, Tchill then jumps in and defends him, while trying to transfer the pressure over to Datisi instead. Tchill has continued to defend Flippy when needed and is now desperately trying to push Datisi's lynch as the tide seems to be turning.

[Luca Blight]

what happens when I flip town. who's scum then Luca?

I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

I don't really have any good reason to believe you're Town at the moment.

[Luca Blight]

how long have you been feeling tchll is scum? I don't think you thought that around the time I was pushing him

You're right, I didn't, and I said as much in my post above.

It's been a feeling that has grown recently, based on PoE, paranoia due to Tchill being a good player (which you said yourself earlier) and the fact he seems a bit desperate that Datisi is lynched instead of you.

Looking back, the only reasons I Townread Tchill were because of his arguments against you - which now lose their effect given you're a likely scum partner to him.

[Luca Blight]

and also since when have I really been getting town read? you said you tr me early on for not knowing there was no day chat. then It flipped when I got busy and wasn't here as much. other than that from what I recall everyone has said the jury is out on me

I'm not really sure what your point is; I don't think I ever said you were getting townread? (presuming you're talking generally)

[Luca Blight]

so what if datisi is really scum & she's just sitting back letting you push me so you take the brunt end of things

That's unlikely; she would have been in a position to maintain her SR on me if she wanted, and I haven't really been 'pushing you' until just now.

[Luca Blight]

Oh, that.

Yes, you were Townread by a few (including me) early on, based on activity and making stuff happen, i.e. your Tchill push.

[Luca Blight]

I mean you said you town read me cos of me not knowing day chat was in this game. I dont believe you ever said "that Tchill push looked pretty townie from emp"

I might not have said it, but I definitely thought it.

And yes, the townslip seemed genuine, but as I said it could easily have been faked.

[Luca Blight]

Flippy, what is your Tchill read anyway? Would you consider lynching him today?

[Luca Blight]

I'm currently of the opinion that Tchill/Flippy are the scumteam.

Icon is Town
Datisi is probably Town
A50 feels Town on gut but has been pretty quiet recently
Billy/Uzi and Klick seemed Town earlier
Alisae - I'm struggling to see how 'e is still obsessing over me, but I have a 'gut' town feeling at the moment

So I'm left with a Flippy/Tchill scumteam, which also makes sense for the reasons I provided earlier.

[Luca Blight]

I really need to reassess my reads entirely, though I still feel pretty confident of Icon being Town unless he has me utterly fooled.

I can’t help but think scum have tried to set me up by killing Alisae, but I have to say I’m relieved I won’t have to deal with their BS for another day.

I’m naturally feeling a bit suspicious of uzi given in his catch-up he seemed to hold no suspicion of Flippy, which was something I couldn’t relate to and found odd even before the flip. I will read back in a few hours to reassess .

[Luca Blight]

I said I’ll re-read to reassess in a few hours.

[Luca Blight]

Ok, I'm back home. Reading back now...

Almost50 is certainly a person of interest for me today. He 'felt' Town on D1, but I was becoming increasingly aware that he was on the sidelines towards the business end of D1 and unwilling to take a stance, despite there being more than enough content to do so by then, in my opinion. Also, he could have reason for killing Alisae, due to the experience they appear to have with one another, and that could be another reason why he chose to hold back after she had replaced in. For the most part his catch-up after joining the game was NAI - posts and POV's I could see coming from either alignment, but I've noted a few important contributions below:

287 - A50 hard-townreads Datisi based on very little.

302 - A pressure vote on the inactive Kop. This may seem acceptable at the time given he was just getting into the groove of things, but he didn't really kick on from this.

702 - Decent-sized post, but not much to be gleaned. I don't want to be too harsh given I could relate in part, but his views are wishy-washy for the most part. I can understand his TR on Icon here based on his past experience, but the 'sympathetic' TR on Datisi didn't make sense to me.

711 - Votes me. Again, pretty non-committal as a 'test' while opposing the main wagon.

758 - A hard townread on Alisae. As scum, A50 would be unlikely to find himself in a position where he could push Alisae going forward, so again it leads me back to possible NK motive.

772 - Unvotes me. Ok, fair enough, he is re-considering his view, but after this post he never again attempts to sort anyone or do anything at all for the remainder of D1. I can understand not having any good scumreads, but I can't understand (as town) why you would sit on the sidelines in such a situation instead of endeavoring to be productive and work out the game.

1232 - This was his final D1 post, and at the time of writing the lynch was very much up in the air between Flippy, Datisi and I (all of whom are probably Town), but he doesn't give any relevant thoughts on what should happen in this lynch, or any updated thoughts on Flippy, whose wagon was gaining pace at the time.

A50 has done nothing that you could say is particularly scummy, but I find his lack of effort at the end of the day to take some responsibility for what was going to happen quite telling. I will need to sort everyone else, but I have him as a scum-lean for now.

[Luca Blight]

Next up under the microscope, I present

Klick

.

46 - I don't really like how he tries to paint changing one's RVS vote as being a 'scumtell'.

47 - This is more reasonable

51 - This apparent drunken openness here was a starting point to a D1 TR, although subject to further Townie play.

55 - The 'Billy test'. He follows up in 78 and then in 82 he unvotes. I liked this progression because it felt genuine.

139 - Random Kop vote. I guess it was meant as a pressure vote, but just seemed a bit pointless when Kop had just said he was going to catch-up.

180 - He cranks up the pressure on Tchill - putting him to L-2.

398 - Feels like he is just coasting here.

1028 Re-considers his opinion on Tchill (although SR'ing Tchill wasn't popular at this time) and talks meta.

1112 - Has Flippy as his biggest scumread, so why no Flippy vote here? I can agree with his Datisi comments, but does the same thing not apply to Icon? If not, why not?

1117 - keeps the option of voting me open, but why not push Flippy or even A50 here, given they are apparently bigger SR's of his?

1122 and 1138: fair comments about me, but very much on the fence. At this point I am the biggest wagon and it feels like Klick is slowly allowing himself to be 'talked' onto the wagon, but is possibly concerned about being seen as opportunistic. He also says he hadn't paid any mental attention to A50's posts until this point, so I'm left wondering why A50 was his second biggest SR then?

1274 - Seems to be implying there was a scumslip by Flippy, which leads him to put the wagon at L-1. Again, I go back to the fact Klick has scumread Flippy since 1112, so why only join the wagon now?

I have Klick as a slight-scum lean at this point.

[Luca Blight]

It's already shaping up to be a D2 lynch pool of A50, Klick and Uzi; I think there is a very good chance of there being 2 scum among these three players. I'm going to ISO Uzi next.

[Luca Blight]

Billy Pilgrim:

I'm going to disregard the result of the 'test' at this point, as it really is far from conclusive. I could imagine Billy as Town or scum saying what he did.

83 Questions the legitimacy of the early townbloc, of which he is included. Seems Townie on the surface, but also could be done as scum to look Town.

158 - he has a number of posts like this where he talks at length about his playstyle. This can be an easy method of 'looking townie' from a scum perspective, because it looks like they're talking open and honestly (because for the most part they are) but they're not actually scumhunting or touching on game-related matters.

211 - First bit of real content, TR'ing Datisi and Tchill. He also casts a shadow over Klick and Flippy. His reasoning for TR'ing Datisi at this stage doesn't seem great to me, but I guess it's plausible.

233 - A slightly better explanation of his Datisi read.

250 - Heaps praise on Tchill, but still not particularly scumhunting.

310 - Posts a reads list. Most of it seems reasonable, although the Klick SR seems strange at this point - I could buy Klick's Billy read at this stage of the game based on the progression, I'm not sure why Billy was having such a hard time accepting it.

379 - He votes Kop, and then is lead to believe it was actually the hammer. Not much to be gleaned from this - I could see his reaction coming from either alignment.

551 - Being consistent with his view of Icon's actions being Town-motivated, but this is all very passive and not very interesting.

712 - Billy votes me straight after A50, putting me to L-2 (although it seems he was not aware of A50's vote when typing the post). This was where I began to really feel under pressure as Datisi was likely to make me L-1 in the near future. Billy gives a lot of commentary here, just stating exactly what had occurred, which pads out his post a bit. I think his reasons for voting me here are again plausible, but not great.

866 and 876 - Elaborates on his Luca vote. I don't really buy his argument that my vote should have happened earlier, but I've covered that extensively already. I get the feeling at this point he may be deliberately padding out his posts to make them seem more considered than they really are.

Ok, I've seen enough. What I've learnt from this is that Billy wasn't actually as Townie as I remembered he was. I could kind of see where he was coming from in his Luca push, but at the same time it felt like he was quick to dismiss every explanation I gave to his main point against me - the timing of my Datisi vote. Alisae's playstyle has made it difficult to determine the difference between a lack of effort in sorting and scumhunting, and those who have just legitimately fallen behind. Overall I feel pretty null about this slot. I will analyse Uzi's contributions next, after a break.

[Luca Blight]

It's already shaping up to be a D2 lynch pool of A50, Klick and Uzi; I think there is a very good chance of there being 2 scum among these three players. I'm going to ISO Uzi next.

i need to understand why icon isn't in there.

Aslo luca why is datisi town?

Why am I town?

My feelings about Datisi haven't changed from the end of D1.

Your other questions will be covered in due course. I'm not saying you are Town, btw - I haven't yet considered you based on the recent developments.

[Luca Blight]

Ok, back to work...

Uzi

1231 - unvotes me upon arrival. Decent to see some conviction early on, even though my wagon had lost traction by this point.

1362 - This is actually a good point.

1364 - Some fair points raised here in Flippy's favour

1378 - I like and agree with this.

1381 - I was a bit confused as to why Flippy was a Townread at this point. This is where it would have been interesting to see what Uzi did in defence of Flippy, but Alisae denied us this by hammering Flippy.

Not an awful lot of AI information to work with here, so my read on this slot remains null.

[Luca Blight]

Is it possible to tell us what was in the message you sent to Alisae?

[Luca Blight]

Tbh I saw the claim and thought it was a fake-claim by Town at the time. Right now I need to look over stuff (I will continue later) but I'm leaning towards Icon telling the truth here.

I actually quite like Klick's questioning here - makes me feel a bit better about him.

It's funny how Tchill missed the original claim - I'm not sure right now if it makes him more or less likely to be scum, but on first impressions possibly the latter.

[Luca Blight]

if you truthfully think i am going to claim COP of all things as SCUM, you don't know what you are doing

why would I even claim anything at all at that time as scum? i was under little to no pressure. and COP of all things

If this was addressed to me then I don't think scum would claim Cop there - I didn't think Town Cop would either, that's why I suspected it was a fake-claim by Town.

I think you're Town but I always need to question myself and reassess to make sure, which I'll be doing a bit later.

[Luca Blight]

Talk to me about Luca? I disliked his flip on his read of me today - with me being one of his stronger townreads D1, I'm confused by the 180.

He's used a few of the same posts he used to townread me to now scumread me

. His lynchpool is me/LUV/A50; I'm town, and I'm fairly confident the LUVslot is town. There's also an implicit townread on all of you/Datisi/Icon that's just kinda there.

No I didn’t?

And as for my TR on the likes of Icon and Datisi implicitly ‘just being there’ - what game are you reading?

[Luca Blight]

Anyway, my reads are evolving all the time. Right now I’m feeling Klick is possibly Town based on the recent developments. The reads I haven’t fully covered I will cover tomorrow. Right now, I think A50 is the most likely to be scum.

VOTE: Almost50

[Luca Blight]

I’ve said all I have to say about A50 for the moment in 1423.

[Luca Blight]

Ok, I'm back.

Without having re-read anything further from Yesterday, this is where I'm currently at:

Iconeum - Town, but will ISO to confirm my belief.
Lil Uzi Vert - Null, perhaps a slight-scum lean based on PoE.
Klick - Slight Town-lean
Datisi - Town, but I'm a bit disappointed by her start to this day. Hoping to see more involvement soon.
Almost50 - Scum-lean
Tchill13 - I *think* he's Town, but I will ISO again today.

[Luca Blight]

Tchill:

145 - Doubting Pilgrim early on, and this seems to be the origin of his TR of me.

147 - This is an interesting TR of Klick, given his usual apparent high standards for TR'ing someone.

184, 187 - As I've said before, I liked his points against Flippy here

Looking back at his 'frustrated' posts when he was under a little pressure regarding his Billy read, I'm getting slightly more of a scum vibe because of the 'pushed without reason' stance. This is something which is obviously annoying as either alignment, but that early on I could see scum feeling more irritated than Town.

234 - If Tchill is scum then this was a clever move - knowing Flippy was likely to get mislynched at some point, his unvote and reconsideration here certainly seems Townie. This also seems to be the origin of his Datisi scumread.

303 - Seems confused why Klick would be a Town-lean for A50, despite Tchill having earlier said Klick is 'probably Town' himself? 321 is also a bit contradictory to his earlier opinion.

404, 405, 406 - I had a similar thought-process myself to this event.

407 - trying to turn the attention to Datisi, which was a reasonable thing to do here in my opinion.

408 - Why is Billy so high on his reads list suddenly?

411 - felt like I was being manipulated a bit here into the Icon/Datisi scum team idea

977, 980 - This feels a bit icky.

983 - Again, what is the point of this really?

993 - Says my early game was better than anyone else's, yet hasn't directly disagreed with Alisae over any of their points. I feel a bit like he's treading on eggshells a bit here. At this point I'm actually confused myself as to why Tchill TR's me so highly.

995 - don't buy this

996 - Why couldn't Icon, Datisi and I possibly be all Town? I've never understood this PoV.

997 - First line: decent point. second line: I don't see why that's necessarily a scum trait, especially on D1.

1167 - Some decent questiong.

1170 - You did defend me to an extent, although I didn't feel the kind of urgency I would have expected given I was by far your strongest TR and heading towards being the D1 lynch at this point. Fair enough regarding his Flippy PoV here, but why isn't Tchill suspicious about Flippy's sudden disappearance after Alisae joined the game?

1235 - I could understand why he would want a Datisi lynch here from his standing in the game, but has he not had cause to reconsider his read at all by this point? Feels a bit like coasting on an easy SR. I would kind of expect more power behind this push if it were genuine, because Datisi is not in danger of being lynched at this point.

1385 - I'm usually also of the school of thought that scum generally don't play really badly, but given Flippy's development in this game I really thought we were onto something by this point. It would have been interesting to see how Tchill tried to save Flippy here but again Alisae denied us this view by hammering so quickly.

1399 - A strange view- why would Flippy have flipped a PR when he lied about being a 2-shot vig at L-1 before admitting he was a VT? I'm wondering if Tchill even read these developments, or just skimmed over it.

Lots of potential WIFOM here with all the Ali/Datisi talk in twilight.

1411 - More WIFOM? And I'm looking forward to hearing his thought-process behind his read on me. Also want to hear his thoughts regarding Datisi.

1463 - It's interesting how he appeared to be unaware of Icon's D1 claim. It really does feel that Tchill has skimmed through large sections of this game. It could be possible that both scum were unaware of the claim (note to self to check if Uzi commented on this event).

1467 - this is fair, I guess.

Tchill's frustration regarding Icon's fake claim feels genuine, particularly in 1523.

I need to take a break and go over Tchill's more recent posts more carefully, but right now I'm feeling pretty ambivalent. If he is scum then he is playing an intricate game. His recent posts are making me lean-town on him. This one is still a work in progress but Tchill is definitely not the correct lynch for today.

[Luca Blight]

Icon:

227: Uzi later raised a few good points against this post, but I still feel like it was decent and fair at this stage.

320: unvotes Flippy and ups the pressure on Kop. Doesn't really get much towncred here as he was following the trend at this point.

324, 325, 326: Felt like he was genuinely trying to sort me.

331: Votes Datisi and starts to question her. I generally like this questioning and it aligns with how I was feeling about Datisi at the time.

344: I found this a slightly odd time to shift his vote, but not inherently scummy.

353, 356: I like Icon following up on this point: it was a pertinent one.

365: I like this mindset.

366: This is good.

369, 371, 372: This confused me at the time, but I do feel as scum he would feel justified in sitting comfortably on this Datisi SR.

490: This is fine

Basically his entire view of Datisi here mirrors my own thoughts.

I also (although I am biased) like his reaction to Alisae's 'catch-up' - he isn't for a second buying her BS, when at this point he could perhaps have allowed himself to be persuaded.

His view on Alisae's Datisi read and his resulting exasperation all feels very real and understandable to me. I like how willing he is to confront Alisae and is not afraid of holding back - it all feels very townie to me.

1015: This is good

1035: His interaction with Datisi from this point on feels like they're both Townies trying to sort each other.

I also like his reaction to Flippy's fakeclaim etc - it seemed like he genuinely thought a scum-flip was imminent (as did I).

This is why I went into D2 with quite a comfortable TR on Icon - I don't think he plays anything like this as scum. Also the Fake-claim (which I assumed was a fake-claim at the time) would have been an unnecessary move to make as scum.

For a moment I had pause for thought when Icon came under questioning from Tchill and Klick earlier this day, but overall I think he's legit and I'm maintaining my firm TR.

[Luca Blight]

Icon
Datisi
Tchill, Klick
Uzi
A50

That's kind of where I'm at right now. Hopefully we're gonna get some content soon from the likes of Datisi, Uzi and A50.

[Luca Blight]

I don't have any clear scumreads based on content alone, and just because I was wrong on D1 doesn't automatically mean I will be on D2.

I have given a full explanation behind my Icon read, so I don't get why you're surprised he is my highest TR.

Until the three I mentioned come back and start participating there's not much I can do to further sort my reads.

Anyway, it's now time for you to explain your thoughts and opinions.

[Luca Blight]

That seems a bit weak, Datisi. If you look at the time stamps you can see it was a pretty fast and furious interaction, so it’s understandable that he would be skimming given he’d want to get his thoughts and explanation down as quickly as possible. I have to admit I didn’t even notice Tchill’s error myself until you pointed it out.

What are your current thoughts on the other players in the game?

[Luca Blight]

His play today I've not been a fan of. He's mostly ONLY developing reads on other players due to his interactions with them. Very scummy imo. .

It’s already been established that you’ve been negligent in your following of this game, but I’m starting to wonder if you even read half of what I actually write. I’ve clearly developed my reads after having taken each player’s entire ISO into consideration. The fact you’re shading me in this way while saying I’m Town is dubious to say the least.

[Luca Blight]

So you want me to take a stance, except for when that stance doesn’t suit you. I haven’t been fence-sitty in the least - I have two decent Town reads, a Town lean and a scum read. Given two of the the 6 haven’t posted all day, I think that’s decent going. No-one has done more to sort their reads than I have today. And why do I have to have a hard stance on you right now? I have no reason to automatically trust you whatsoever, in fact you are the one I currently trust least out of the active players. And yes I was quick to Town read Icon after his claim, because I was already townreading him, and with sufficient reason.

And your point about me only judging people from interactions with me is complete nonsense and only serves to try and diminish my Icon TR while shading me in the process. My reads on you, Datisi, A50, Klick, in fact anyone else have nothing to do with their interactions with me, which you’d know if you read my posts, and even the Icon read is only partly based on it.

[Luca Blight]

Billy was blatantly obvious town.

Is this just based on the ‘test’ or is there something I’ve missed?

[Luca Blight]

Seriously though, what game are you reading? I have re-evaluated all of my reads this game, and the Datisi read in particular I explained on D1.

I have no agenda against LUV, I just don’t see him as blatantly Town as you seem to.

[Luca Blight]

Klick, my TR on you was based on early D1 play, stuff which didn’t hold as much water as the game progressed. I have re-evaluated you again based on your D2 play so far and still believe you are probably Town.

My Datisi read changed right at the end of D2, and I had spent D1 basically trying to work out that slot. I had much more solid foundations to this read and haven’t yet cause to doubt it. I did become slightly more hesitant after her quiet start to D2, which I mentioned, but she is still a Town read for me.

[Luca Blight]

Right at the end of D1*

[Luca Blight]

Tchill, I did enter D2 TR’ing you on gut, but I’m becoming more unsure of it. I’ve never said I scumread you.

Your point about judging people based on their interactions being very scummy, and then unfairly casting that shadow over me, was very dubious. I’m at work atm but you’re still very much in my sorting pile.

[Luca Blight]

TR'ing luca at the time.

I believe my reasoning on tr luca makes sense but his play today, and overall, leans scum. I'm solely TR'ing luca because he pushed me and flippy as scum d1. Of course that may not be a great reason to TR him.

Wait a second, you were solidly ownreading me before I had ever made the association between you and Flippy, so perhaps you’d better explain that one.

I’m sick at the moment so my involvement is going to be limited until at least Tomorrow.

[Luca Blight]

At the beginning of day one you were the only player that was playing in a manner that wasn't crazy imo.

You have progressively gotten worse as the game went on.

I'm trying to give time to let other people participate but...

Not buying this at all.

Why is not being ‘crazy’ a reason to townread someone in the first place?

You’re saying I’ve gotten worse, which really isn’t the case; if anything I’ve put more effort into sorting my reads today than I did D1, despite the general lack of activity.

I want a direct example for how my recent play is ‘worse’ than my early play.

[Luca Blight]

Btw I saw earlier that Tchill said if Icon flips green then I’ll become a bigger scumread of his - this feels like he’s setting me up for what would be the game-winning Lynch on D3.

[Luca Blight]

A50, at the moment I'm between you/Icon/Luca as likely scum, and you're mostly on the list because nothing your slot has done has given me any reason to think it's town.

This is good. So what for think about my town case of Luca? Where you puts me and flippy as scum due to poe. He then talks himself into a flippy/tchill scum team.

I don't see why he'd suggest a scum team when he could just push flippy and be fine.

I also don't know how much credit to give him on THIS (the main reason I TR him) because he's still leaning scum on me. He trusts me the least atm and I'm still not sure why.

I think my argument for town Luca would hold more weight if he had opened the day TR'ing me.

Yes its convenient my lock towing of Luca depends on him TR'ing me. If you keep my point in mind though I think it's understandable why I believe he should have opened the day TR'ing me.

He still scum reads me. I'm not sure how to react to that in terms of what scum would do here after pushing a team and one of them flips town. So they go ahead and continue to push the other as scum? Then why even mention the pairing as a team?

If I KNEW icon was town then Luca is probably my next bet at scum among the active slots.

Klick has managed to obtain a TR from me.

This is just such utter bollocks. I am seemingly the only one in this game opposed to an Icon Lynch, yet if he flips Town (after Tchill pushes it through) then I’m the one who must be scum? Tchill has been Tr’ing me all day while gradually discrediting his own read based on nonsensical reasons. He wants others to disagree with his Luca tr, so when it comes to pushing me during LYLO he will appear the one being lead onto my wagon, and he will appear the reasonable one who had tried to read me as Town from D1, but it’s superficial rubbish.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Tchill

[Luca Blight]

I’m the one who has no idea this game? That’s rich.

I’ve explained in full detail my Icon read, you refuse to accept or apparently even read it.

You’re coming for me regardless of Icon’s flip then? Good to know.

I’m sick atm, as I said earlier. Will continue this tomorrow.

[Luca Blight]

If the claims show very little town power without Icon's claim then that will have an affect on how much I believe Icon.
Like if there's only one protective/utility role outside of Icon then I'd probably oppose an Icon lynch.

This seems fair. I would agree to a mass claim if it’s decided that Icon is today’s Lynch.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: iconeum
Alisae's last read was a luca/Icon scum team.
.

This is a falsehood - if I recall correctly Alisae was starting to townread Icon by the end of D1. They thought the most likely scumteam was Uzi and I.

[Luca Blight]

I think if Icon is lynched and flips Town then the game is close to being a lost cause, especially given the current state of affairs. The possible protective, if we Lynch Town!Icon is going to be of limited effect anyway, especially with the game state as it is with no-one really being universally townread. Presuming Icon is telling the truth, the mass claim could stop his Lynch and, depending on how the claims go, possibly ‘confirm’ another townie, and would leave us in much better stead to actually Lynch scum today, which I think is vital.

Datisi, who would you go for if not Icon?

[Luca Blight]

It’s true that scum could fake claim, but it would be a risk to do so. If fake-claiming means Town!Icon is lynched today then they will come under fire tomorrow.

I have a strong feeling that Klick is Town. A50 would be the safest bet - he says he isn’t this passive as scum, but why would he be as Town? I can imagine scum taking such a stance as there is no ‘easy’ push, but Town should be trying to work out the game regardless.

[Luca Blight]

Also Klick was willing to be the one to begin the mass-claim - so he would have been at a disadvantage if he intended to fake-claim.

[Luca Blight]

If there were a Mafia RB (and presuming Icon is Town) then they would have blocked him N1, which I guess would explain why he is still alive. I believe, however, that if your action is blocked then you get a pm from the mod confirming this? Which Icon didn’t mention.

[Luca Blight]

Ok, that’s interesting. That would be a pretty obvious explanation for why Town!Icon is still alive, then. This also pretty much devalues Icon’s role, because there’s no way of knowing if someone didn’t receive a message because they’re scum or because Icon was roleblocked.

I can understand the argument here that Icon’s position is almost untenable, but I can’t help but think he’s Town.

Datisi, forgetting Icon’s roleclaim etc, what is your gut feeling about him?

[Luca Blight]

If you knew I were Town, would it affect your read on Icon?

I can’t see why he would, as scum, go toe to toe with Alisae over their scumread of me and then, in apparent exasperation, fake-claim cop without himself being under any serious pressure of being lynched.

And it doesn’t feel like buddying or anything - he questioned and ‘sorted’ me in a way that felt genuine, and it felt like he was genuinely trying to sort you as well.

[Luca Blight]

Yeah, I could be wrong in my thinking which is why I wanted another perspective on that. The fact no-one else seems opposed to his Lynch right now also gets me.

In terms of Town motivation, I could imagine him making such a claim out of sheer annoyance, given how utterly annoying Alisae’s push was (I was close to quitting the game myself at one point) but clearly it was not the correct thing to do regardless of alignment.

[Luca Blight]

Why not Tchill?

[Luca Blight]

I’m never gonna stop pushing you? You do say some odd things. I’ve made about two posts ‘pushing you’ all game.

My preferred claim order would be: A50, Tchill, Uzi, Klick, me

[Luca Blight]

I will agree to Uzi - Tchill - Luca - Klick

[Luca Blight]

That’s a strange thing to come out with just before he’s about to claim.

[Luca Blight]

Given that you townread me and I am much less sure about you, does it not therefore follow that you should claim before me?

Just like I Townread Klick, but he is much less sure about me, so I am willing to claim before him.

[Luca Blight]

I'm bored and no-one is around, so I'm gonna detail some of the reasons I dislike Tchill's D2 play.

Spoiler:

Icon should target LUV.

We lynch A50.

counterproposal to town steering my power

make a list of 2 players from which i choose

that way scum can't both kill me and fake a message if i target them
that way scum can't kill my target and continue to wifom the crap out of me
that way if scum is in the 2 they can't fake a message (unless the bracket is both scum but rip then)

or we could just lynch you.

Haven't decided yet.

I mean whats more convenient? You being alive after d1 cop claim or scum killing the person you investigated?

He's had a scattergun approach to D2, which makes me feel like he's deliberately trying to cause confusion and keep his options open as much as possible, while trying to make out he's doing the opposite.

Spoiler:

Also on Luca.

I wanted to lock town him. He was the FIRST person to suggest a "tchill flippynips" scum team. He highlighted that me and flippynips both fell short of a town read due to PoE. THEN he makes a case we're both scum together, which is convenient enough for him considering we're both scum leans due to PoE.

I seen this as "pre confirmation bias" that's how a town!Luca got to this scum team.

Now the key is it does not bode well for scum to suggest a scum team d1 when they don't have to. Tchill/flippynips loses traction when flippynips flips town.

Luca could have easily just pushed flippynips as scum.

So the fact that he was the FIRST to suggest that team and the fact that I can see how he talked himself into it with pre confirmation bias... I think he's town.

His play today I've not been a fan of. He's mostly ONLY developing reads on other players due to his interactions with them. Very scummy imo.

But I'm pretty confident about my initial read. I ultimately think Luca is town.

I really dislike this post. He's townreading me, but then saying I'm '

very scummy

' for '

developing reads on other players due to his interactions with them'

. This is not something that is inherently scummy at all. It feels like he wants others to disagree with his read and push my lynch, so he'd have another Flippy situation on his hands (scum gold - the player you defended and didn't want lynched flips Town), or at the very least keeping me as a viable ML for D3.

Spoiler:

The longer A50/LUV doesn't post the more I think town wins this game if we lynch in this order:

A50/LUV/(icon or klick)

I'm willing to stand firm on my Luca read.

I'm willing to trust Ali on her datisi read after my town lean there.

I really dislike how he's using Alisae's reads to justify his own - he is cherry-picking parts that suit him and ignoring the parts that don't. If Alisae was so wrong about her main read in the game, why would you trust whatever else they said? It feels really insincere on Tchill's part.

And here he is again dictating the tempo and changing his mind, causing more confusion.

Spoiler:

@Luca I got a few things wrong and I'm not following the game... That hurts man. That hurts... It's actually a staple of my play. I do this all the time. Extremely annoying ik but this is my first game back in a year.

STOP TRYING TO SIT ON THE FENCE ON MY SLOT. EITHER SCUM READ ME OR TOWN READ ME. TAKE A STANCE.

you're most in depth breakdowns come from interactions you have with others. Regardless of whether not you do the WHOLE iso or not.

You were very quick to lean town on icon after his claim. A claim that involves: claiming cop d1 and not dying. Sending a note to the player icon believes most likely to die if they're town. (this action DOES NOT determine Alisae's alignment btw)

And the way I'm forming my, endgame here. I have no way to push you out of the blue. I obviously believe scum is in (A50/LUV/Icon/klick)

Hell, I'm going great lengths to town clear you. I NEED 2 townies I can trust in. Alisae is a good player. She scum read you hard. I have to have a reason to disagree with her, a town Alisae, while also having a reason to agree with her on datisi

.

This translates as '

Alisae scumread you but I'm doing you a favour by not agreeing with her, now behave and do as you're told'

.

Spoiler:

VOTE: almost50

Votes A50, but this will soon change again.

Spoiler:

A50, at the moment I'm between you/Icon/Luca as likely scum, and you're mostly on the list because nothing your slot has done has given me any reason to think it's town.

This is good. So what for think about my town case of Luca? Where you puts me and flippy as scum due to poe. He then talks himself into a flippy/tchill scum team.

I don't see why he'd suggest a scum team when he could just push flippy and be fine.

I also don't know how much credit to give him on THIS (the main reason I TR him) because he's still leaning scum on me. He trusts me the least atm and I'm still not sure why.

I think my argument for town Luca would hold more weight if he had opened the day TR'ing me.

Yes its convenient my lock towing of Luca depends on him TR'ing me. If you keep my point in mind though I think it's understandable why I believe he should have opened the day TR'ing me.

He still scum reads me. I'm not sure how to react to that in terms of what scum would do here after pushing a team and one of them flips town. So they go ahead and continue to push the other as scum? Then why even mention the pairing as a team?

If I KNEW icon was town then Luca is probably my next bet at scum among the active slots.

Klick has managed to obtain a TR from me.

Again Tchill discredits his own Luca TR, and then unbelievably says that if Icon is Town then I am the next most likely to be scum? That is a ridiculous and, in my opinion, scummy progression to make.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Lil uzi Vert

He seems like he's saying a lot but he's not actually saying much at all after you read through it.

Another change of direction.

Spoiler:

The more datisi just lurks the scummier she's getting.

More shading.

Spoiler:

TR'ing luca at the time.

I believe my reasoning on tr luca makes sense but his play today, and overall, leans scum. I'm solely TR'ing luca because he pushed me and flippy as scum d1. Of course that may not be a great reason to TR him.

More discrediting of his Luca TR. His whole progression of his Luca read reeks of insincerity.

Spoiler:

VOTE: iconeum

Dude was on every wagon that reached L-1.

Dude claimed cop when he didn't have to. Some say scum wouldn't claim dop d1. Well I say scum also wouldn't be on every L-1 wagon unless he's just that aggressive... He could be.

Alisae's last read was a luca/Icon scum team.

He used his action on the player most likely to be killed if town.

If icon is still alive next day phase he will automatically be my lynch. I'm not gonna risk scum skating by on a fake claim to a victory like that. That's on town if scum win by, fake claiming cop d1.

Another change of direction, with poor reasoning to boot.

Being on many wagons D1 is not a scumtell. Ali's last read was not a Luca/Icon scumteam. And then excusing himself for what would be, as town, potentially game-losing play on D3.

Spoiler:

I'll tell you rn if icon flips town and you're still on the board A50 your primary suspect number one

Now he changes to A50 being most likely scum if Icon is Town.

Spoiler:

We could just lynch obv scum luv. Dude hasn't done a thing.

And Billy being hard tr is so weak it hurts.

Another change in direction, and he says this just before Uzi is about to claim, which is dubious. It's as if he is preemptively discrediting whatever claim he might make.

[Luca Blight]

And just to show the other side of the coin, I actually liked Tchill's D2 play: his frustration about Icon's claim felt genuine, and of course he got some Townie points for the Flippy defence, which is why I entered D2 with a gut townread on Tchill.

But as I said above, there is also scum benefit in defending someone who is very likely to be mislynched - how many times has Tchill reminded us about Flippy during D2? He is seeking that towncred. In my opinion, I could see Scum!Tchill defending Town!Flippy on D1. He got a few townie points for it, but it isn't anywhere near enough to clear him, which he should acknowledge himself given his own apparent high standards for TR'ing someone (although these high standards seem inconsistent this game).

[Luca Blight]

I actually liked Tchill's

early

D2 play*

[Luca Blight]

Also the point about Alisae - it could be possible scum-motivation for the NK if their reads were way off the mark.

I remember a game where I was killed N1 and my reads were off, and the following day one of the scum players kept referring back to my reads and using it as a reason to justify their reads/shade certain players.

Tchill's whole '

do you really not trust Alisae's reads at all

' line is really rubbing me up the wrong way, especially given the way he himself is cherry-picking from said reads.

[Luca Blight]

Luca, I think you've mentioned everyone in 1727? Who would you put as Tchill's partner?

I'm not playing that game again after D1.

If Tchill is scum then I would fully expect him to be including his partner in all his flip-flopping.

[Luca Blight]

Luca, if Tchill is scum then he deliberately chose not to NK me in order to wifom the crap out of my claim. If he's scum, he knows i'm town and it's probably a PR in any case. He then has to come into D2 to push me, and he will have a lot of dirt in his ISO going the next days for pushing a mislynch on a town PR.

He could opt to kill the threat that is Ali, and wait to kill me the next day but I strongly doubt scum would actively try to mislynch me.
That comes from (frustrated) town a LOT more then scum.

He seemingly wasn't even aware of your claim until D2, and if there is a Mafia roleblocker then that's ample reason to keep you alive.

[Luca Blight]

I hate to keep uing PoE, but unless the scumteam literally is A50/Uzi, which seems way too easy, then the only other player I'm doubtful over is Tchill.

[Luca Blight]

Another Flippy reference, you really are riding that one all the way to the bank.

To be fair 1739 seems like a more natural thought process, so I'm willing to take a step back from this.

UNVOTE:

I'm feeling pretty good about Klick, perhaps I could be wrong about Datisi (I've generally liked her content and observations recently, but she is a bit on the sidelines which occasionally pings my paranoia).

Hopefully Uzi gets round to claiming soon so we can progress with this.

[Luca Blight]

A50 feels like scum who knows they're getting lynched at some point so has ceased to put in any effort. The fact he townreads literally everyone means that if he is lynched there will be little information to associate him with a potential partner.

I would like to believe that if he were Town then he would at least put some effort in to solve this game.

[Luca Blight]

I’m VT.