Mini Normal 2095 - Game Over!

[Alisae]

I am playing a normal game in the normal queue
Wow

[Alisae]

post per page set to 200 [✔]
weed and pocky [✔]
Zombieland Saga OP on repeat [✔]
Room lights functional [✖]

lets play mafia

[Alisae]

o wait a minute i also need hashinshin's tream in the background 1 sec

[Alisae]

okay I have hashinshin's stream in the background so whenever he bitches about how shit league is I have my entertainment
NOW i can play mafia

[Alisae]

[Alisae]

VOTE: DaTitsi

VOTE: datisi

I'm not usually one to joke vote names because some mods get annoyed, and apparently I already have a target on my back with this one (I'm joking) but datits is too good to pass up.

LETS LYNCH THIS ANIMAL HELLO???????????

[Alisae]

UNVOTE:

I'm happy with a starting townblock of myself/Icon/Billy.

yeah
this is fine

[Alisae]

I haven’t played Mafia for ages but I can’t ever remember seeing a specified townbloc - usually there comes a point where you naturally start trying to work with the people you strongly believe are Town - it’s rarely something that needs highlighting in of itself.

VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight

[Alisae]

I think scums talking about how waffles are better than pancakes

what the fuck is wrong with you

French Toast is best fuck off with that pancake and waffle shit

[Alisae]

also if ur not using challah for your French Toast you're a fucking animal btw

[Alisae]

You do know that most of the time, Town players don't purposefully mislynch?

oh u have no idea

[Alisae]

I’m not buying the billy thing. He’s got a D1 pass from me. Rn it feels like Tchill is trying to take attention away from himself & nit pick on a newbie

thats a good post there mister

[Alisae]

Looking over Datisi's ISO - it's full of game theory chat and passive questioning - this is where my slightly below null read originates from. The only real point of interest is 99 - Would scum do such a 'test'? Looking back at it, it felt a bit unnecessary of Datisi because Billy's answer to Klick's original question already provided the 'townslip'. I think I'm leaning towards this being an act from scum who are at a loss of what to do, so choose to do something that appears to be useful Town work, with the additional benefit of getting a Townie onside (which, if this scenario is accurate, would have been successful given Pilgrims TR of Datisi).

This is still very much a work in progress, but my reads are something like this at the moment:

Tchill
Klick
Pilgrim, Icon, Flippy,
Datisi

Incidentally, Flippy's reaction to the same incident looked pretty genuine, which is why I've put him around the null level. I actually dislike such tests as it causes me to doubt myself; such reactions can look so effective, yet be so easily faked by a good player

VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight

[Alisae]

All caught up.. but I dunno whom I want to vote.

VOTE: Kop

Maybe this for now. I need more content from you,

Mr

Herr Klopp

yeah ur town

[Alisae]

Going over Klick's Iso.

40 - I agree with Icon that there is nothing particularly wrong with changing your RVS vote to another RVS vote - it's actually quite a usual thing in my experience. I've seen RVS' that last like three pages with random votes flying back and forth. I'm generally not a fan of RVS myself but I believe there can be bit and pieces learnt from it. Anyway, I'm not reading much into this as Klick was seemingly trying to create some real content, which is quite natural.

51 - This felt Town. I feel scum, whether sober or not, would be more likely to avoid drawing such attention to themselves here. Klick's grammar and language remains pretty much on point, so I doubt he could have been too intoxicated, but the fact he didn't misspell words etc in a way adds to its authenticity (I always cringe when I see 'drunken' posts where the player exaggerates their condition by writing a load of nonsense).

55 - Asks Billy what he thinks scum are talking about. It turns out (122) that Klick was aware that scum have no day chat. Klick follows up the question in 78 and then immediately unvotes Pilgrim following his response. He also doesn't immediately reveal (or try to take credit for) his test. This feels like a really natural progression.

82 - Talks of a townblock, including himself. That would be some pretty gutsy scum work right there.

He hasn't done as much in recent times, but I think I've seen enough to get a fairly solid Town read here.

VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight
VOTE: Luca Blight

[Alisae]

Alright, here's where I am right now: (most to least town)

Billy

- I feel like he's playing like classic Town!Billy. Plus, I think scum!Billy would've tried to pocket me (rather than downgrading his TR), especially as my lynch is starting to get more and more likely.

Klick

- Still having the same vibes from him as in the beginning.

A50

- Granted, we've been in the game together for only a short while, so this is subject to change, but he seems towny so far. Plus I can feel being confused about reads.

Tchill

- He feels genuine, at least enough for D1.

Icon

- I know posting gifs and fooling around is his style, but he seems to be almost pushing it.

Emperor

- I don't see why such activity couldn't be coming from scum who's purposefully trying to have such a playstyle.

Luca

- Their posts seem... fake? I can't explain it well, but I just feel their posts are so devoid of life, like they're cold and calculated. It could be just their playstyle, but it's giving me bad vibes.

Kop

- I mean, yeah.

While I'm fine with voting Kop here, they feel like low-hanging fruit, so I'm gonna VOTE: Luca

WOW
SOMEONE NOTICED
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW
Only took about 14 pages

[Alisae]

This is good to see.

Did you read my response to 366?

pedit @Luca: I don't have a problem with the content itself, as I said the tone/style is what threw me off.

pedit @Tchill:

If I'm assuming that

datisi and iconeum

are scum.

Kop and icon

seem like the type of scum that would just want a lynch to get by, without necessarily playing for the endgame.

?

Do you have any thoughts on anything relevant I’ve said all game?

bruuuuuh

[Alisae]

I'll just wait until you get to the good stuff

ok icon im pretty much caught up
what were you refering here that would make Luca not scum?

[Alisae]

wow you can come up with 8/46 posts

[Alisae]

I'll just wait until you get to the good stuff

ok icon im pretty much caught up
what were you refering here that would make Luca not scum?

I'm also kinda interested in your opinion on Icon/Datisi from the last 5? ish pages

Datisi is at L-1, you should probably take a stance on the lead wagon if ur caught up

lead wagon trash

[Alisae]

Honestly, I'm not feeling too well about Icon right now. He started pushing me, and once seeing that I really had no idea what I'm doing, decided to drop it, since he could probably easily manipulate me into following him. But then realized others still want me to hang, so he had no choice but to join in.

show me this development arc you're talkin about here

[Alisae]

wow you can come up with 8/46 posts

and how many did you quote? 2? 3?/48

hold on there dragonite i don't think i've even touched on what's so garsh darn bad about him

[Alisae]

she posted a (not so great) readslist

ok this is where we differ
I think the readlist is fine

[Alisae]

VOTE: Datisi

The more I look at that reads list of hers the more I feel like it isn't genuine. I feel like it was always her intention to jump on the Kop wagon eventually but she was concerned about picking the easy target, so she stuck a half-hearted vote on me instead and then allowed herself to be

talked into

joining the easy wagon.

and like
this is bad
really bad

[Alisae]

Icon so how do you start from 369 and 371 to end on 490

[Alisae]

I've already explained that I pushed Datisi, why I backed off when I did it, and why I hopped back on

quote it for me?

[Alisae]

oh wait no i see it

[Alisae]

If you truly want to push me over this, it's not gonna end well I can already promise you this.

Especially Ali, if you choose to progress down this path instead of talking about the actual current discussions.

I'm trying to figure out the game????????

[Alisae]

ok just tell me what were the thought processes behind 369 and 371 and u can sleep

[Alisae]

This game just gave me a nosebleed. Hope yall happy with yourselves.

not sure how that's the game's fault

[Alisae]

What's your readslist rn?

gimmie a bit im tryharding how has yours progressed?

[Alisae]

I'm kind of more interested in what changed from your previous reads then what the reads actually are if that makes sense

[Alisae]

Uhhhhh
Billy fell down a lil bit, but we'll see about that
Being a bit more suspicious of Emperor and Icon is becoming a big ???

why did billy fall down and what is causing your read on emperor to grow stronger?

[Alisae]

========
Town
========

Datisi - Her early hunting with Billy and in general is fine and not faked. For the most part, it looks natural and good. I think her read list is definitely fine. Her stance on Kop is perfect and probably comes from a townie because putting pressure on that slot isn't really worthwhile. Her Luca read is fine. When I see her talking about it, I don't really care about what she feels like is faked by Luca, but its enough and specific enough to say that her concern there definitely exists and I believe it. Her wagon is also WAY too quick for my liking. The VCA stuff gets its own post. Also, I definitely feel like her interactions with Icon are good for her. I buy the conclusion she's giving me in 521 considering the progression she's talking about in 612.

Billy - Early game dude
Klick - His early game solving definitely existed and it wasn't bad. It looked natural and fine to me.
A50 - I think him being the first one to mention Kop like at all and wanting to put pressure on there looks good for him.

Flippy - A lot of the posts he's making like, aren't really that bad at all. His reasoning for why Kop shouldn't be voted is perfect. 160 is definitely fine aside from the tchill stuff but I definitely see how he got that conclusion from tchill. And his actual move onto Datisi doesn't really feel that scum motivated? Like through his posts, it seems like he's trying to figure out what's going on and trying to solve and I buy it.

tchill - Super wrong but doesn't really come across as trying to push an agenda or control the town.

[Alisae]

========
VCA
========

Kop (4) [L-1] - Almost50, Iconeum, Datisi, Billy Pilgrim
Emperor flippyNips (1) - Kop
Tchill13 (1) - Klick
Datisi (1) - Tchill13

Not Voting (4) - Luca Blight, Emperor flippyNips

--

Datisi (4) [L-1] - Tchill13, Emperor flippyNips, Luca Blight, Iconeum
Kop (3) [L-2] - Almost50, Datisi, Billy Pilgrim
Emperor flippyNips (1) - Kop
Tchill13 (1) - Klick


So I'm usually not someone who goes to VCA here, but I kinda of want to note that the Kop wagon was around and way more people had time to give actual imput on it. It sat around and didn't really do much.
The Datisi however was put to L-1 VERY quickly.
The only real similar voter here is Icon, who moves from Kop to Datisi.

Kop (3) [L-1] - Almost50, Iconeum, Datisi, Billy Pilgrim
Datisi (3) [L-2] - Tchill13, Emperor flippyNips, Luca Blight
Emperor flippyNips (1) - Kop
Tchill13 (1) - Klick

I think at around this formation is where I want to say that there is 1 scum on each wagon. I feel like thats pretty safe to say considering the speed of each wagon.
Kop's wagon here I feel like from a Micro perspective took way more time to form and its kind of natural. A50's vote is good as explained to why I'm TRing him. Datisi and Billy really don't seem to know whats going on here and kind of feel like they're just along for the ride. And it really doesn't look that bad from both of them tbh.
Then I feel like Icon if anything is like, trying to persue with some kind of plan. I don't think its a reach to say that he's definitely trying to control how the day plays out.

Now the Datisi wagon I really don't like how quickly it was formed.
Tchill was on it before kop was even put to L-1, and I don't really feel like his vote is where scum would be here.
I'm not actually sure why Nips is on the wagon, but like, his posts prior to joining it looked decentish, and his protest against the Kop wagon is good.
And Luca's vote just fucking sucks.

Add Icon's vote onto Datisi's wagon and you have a wagon that feels artificially boosted to L-1.
It definitely screams 2 scum to me.

[Alisae]

========
Scum
========

Luca - His whole ISO sucks. Nothing in there is actually substanial at all. All of his reads come across as making stuff up on the fly (a lot of times when he is talking about a read, he gives himself room for said read to go either way). He's not really taking any risks and is in general playing really safe. I really want to see Luca go after something instead of just do nothing. Because a lot of what his ISO is nothing. And anything that like, remotely looks like analysis is really surface level stuff.
54 is just a gut scummy start mostly because I don't like the fact he has to feel like he has to have a stance first thing.
His shade in 85 is bad and comes across as scummy.
The Klick stance in 214 just sucks because the way he presents it, it really seems like it could go either way depending on what happens.
224 kind of just sucks. I'm not buying the "scum who is at a loss of what to do" narative at all because when I was reading that, I was generally liking that interaction with Billy.
318 is bad because its him just saying that Klick is town over and over again. The individual points aren't anything thats new. Also in the way its presented itself, I dislike this because he's just saying the samething over and over again. Like, he's trying to look like he's solving, but nothing in that post is actually adding anything new to the game. Its just non-stop praise and I don't like it.
Also apparently, accoriding to you, 325 contains content but it doesn't? Like, that can be faked.
488 is opportunistic. The narative being built here sucks. The vote is just scum.

Icon - I like Datisi so I don't like how Icon is pushing it. I hate how I'm immediately attacked in 593 while I'm catching up. I also kinda feel like Icon is definitely trying to control the game in a way I really don't like. Like, the threat in 618 kinda comes across as "how dare you question my authority." I state a scumread on Luca and that I'm not completely buying the Datisi wagon and I'm being attacked for it because its "not current" like????? Also, I'm really not buying how his confidence level goes from "maybe we're all town" to "I have this super confident read on Datisi. I'm using words to make it look like I WAS uncertain to make it look like I'm trying to solve, but I actually just had this really confident scumread the whole time hahahaha." Not to mention what the original fuss was over, is completely irrelevant. "Devoid of Life" and "Fake" who cares they both mean the samething. It seemed just really semantic to me.

[Alisae]

Ali, I have great respect for you as a player so if you think I (and the rest of the wagon) think we are wrong, disprove it please

also dude
where does this respect come from???????
I'm not all that amazing (I am fun tho) and I have a greater reputation as a mod then a player.

[Alisae]

54 - I didn’t feel like I needed to have a stance? I was trying to move the game out of RVS, which is what I always try and do.

85 - how the fuck is that throwing shade?

I’m gonna have to address this bits at a time because I’m on my phone and limited 3g atm.

If thats moving the game out of RVS then you’re REALLY bad at trying to move the game out of RVS

[Alisae]

Considering how far we are into the game, I don’t think page 7 and page 9 is really “the first few pages” I think most slots have atleast something you can build more off of then “This post could be either town or scum loooool”

And 224 does suck. Your conclusion sucks and your analysis is surface level shit.

[Alisae]

318 - Klick was a topic of discussion at that time, so I iso’d him to see exactly where i stood on him. Earlier you called me scummy for being unsure of my Klick read, and now you’re calling me scummy for giving a solid, more confident townread on Klick. That is contradictory BS on your part.

here let me transcribe what your post here essentially is
This post - oh this post is a town post
This post - this post is also town
This post - and so is this one
This post - and this one also

Did anything you say add anything to the game?
No.

And guess what
In that exact same post, you STILL gave yourself room to turn that read into a scumread.

[Alisae]

488 - opportunistic? Yeah right. I’ve been consistent on my Datisi read throughout.

And yet I wasn’t opportunistic on Kop’s wagon (of which you know the alignment already). You don’t mention this, however, as it doesn’t fit your narrative.

and you didn’t vote her earlier because?????????????????????

[Alisae]

Waaaaah my vote isn’t opportunistic my read on her was there before the vote I totally didn’t vote her just then because the wagon was gaining momentum waaaaaah

Ofc you’re not going to vote Kop, no one is going to hammer a slot who wasn’t posting.
I’m flipping town and considering how the day is currently being played out, that brings a lot of attention to you that you don’t want.

[Alisae]

318 - Klick was a topic of discussion at that time, so I iso’d him to see exactly where i stood on him. Earlier you called me scummy for being unsure of my Klick read, and now you’re calling me scummy for giving a solid, more confident townread on Klick. That is contradictory BS on your part.

here let me transcribe what your post here essentially is
This post - oh this post is a town post
This post - this post is also town
This post - and so is this one
This post - and this one also

Did anything you say add anything to the game?
No.

And guess what
In that exact same post, you STILL gave yourself room to turn that read into a scumread.

I do believe I added something to the game - the fact that Klick was the one who actually did the test (not Datisi) and that he didn’t try to take credit for it. No-one else had touched upon these points.

What is wrong with saying multiple posts are townie when Iso’ing someone? I said it exactly how I saw it.

waaaaaah
I came up with 1 irrelevant fact!
Waaaaaaaaah
My 1 irrelevant fact (that ANYONE can figure out just by READING THE GAME so its not actually new) is supposed to make up for the fact that I’m not actually doing anything but Ali isn’t buying it
Waaaaaaah

Seriously fuck off with that noise
You can add 1 thing but like, your iso is still shit and you’re still not doing anything

Also whats wrong with it just repeating that someone is town over and over again is that it can look unnatural and like you’re trying to force a read through to look like you’re trying.

[Alisae]

488 - opportunistic? Yeah right. I’ve been consistent on my Datisi read throughout.

And yet I wasn’t opportunistic on Kop’s wagon (of which you know the alignment already). You don’t mention this, however, as it doesn’t fit your narrative.

and you didn’t vote her earlier because?????????????????????

My read on her wasn’t that strong (given she had hardly any content) until after her reads list and Kop vote. I believe I’ve explained everything with regards to Datisi already.

so lets wait to see if someone else votes Datisi to see if the wagon will actually gain momentum instead of just voting her when she votes Kop
That’ll make me look sooooooo townie

[Alisae]

Waaaaah my vote isn’t opportunistic my read on her was there before the vote I totally didn’t vote her just then because the wagon was gaining momentum waaaaaah

Ofc you’re not going to vote Kop, no one is going to hammer a slot who wasn’t posting.
I’m flipping town and considering how the day is currently being played out, that brings a lot of attention to you that you don’t want.

Voting my biggest scumread when their wagon was gaining momentum is scummy? It felt pretty natural to me.

Yes.

[Alisae]

I believe if I was scum and Kop was Town then I would have handled that situation differently - I wouldn’t have called for him to be replaced for a start, when his dodgy flippy vote already gave grounds for suspicion.

lol nobody cares

[Alisae]

You’re scum and scum aren’t people

[Alisae]

Seriously, you’re telling ME to grow up?
If you can’t handle how vicious I am grow a thicker skin its the internet
I don’t have to be nice to you

Like, I read the game.
Klick asked about that first
Datisi wanted to go into more detail about it

You don’t need to tell me that Datisi didn’t do the test. I know that.

[Alisae]

If you’re Town then you’re a nasty piece of work. Either way, I’m done with this argument.

BYE!!!!!!!!
Eat rope!!!!!!!!!!

[Alisae]

Because its not new to me???????????

[Alisae]

Doesn’t matter

[Alisae]

Its not new to me
You’re not adding anything new to the game.

But yeah, I’m sure that 1 point must mean that you’re ISO is full of very useful contribut-
Oh wait a minute
You’re contributions are awful and you’re scum

[Alisae]

But it was new at the time of writing, and your original point was that I hadn’t added anything new.

Stop moving the goalposts.

like, are you trying to manipulate people?
Are you TRYING to be dishonest?
Calling something “new” when all anyone has to do is read the game isn’t useful contributions. You’re just paying attention to the game more. You’re not trying to analyze it or come up with any read that is even remotely nuanced.
Everything you’ve posted is super shallow and it sucks

[Alisae]

Here is what I am trying to say:
Your content sucks and you should be lynched for it

[Alisae]

Do you understand the concept of that you’re scum and that you need to eat rope????????
Seriously, why haven’t you selfvoted yet??????????
Are you even trying to change my mind????????? It really just doesn’t seem like that and it seems like you’re just defending yourself for the sake of it.

You’re not going to tell me that you’re not scum dude.

[Alisae]

Yeah if I can’t convince scum that they’re scum and they should selfvote I should just stop posting

[Alisae]

Waaaaaaaah I’m being pushed and the person who’s pushing me is being rude and waaaaaaah someone is being rude to me on the internet waaaaaaaaaaaaaah

[Alisae]

Waaaaah someone is trying to hold me accountable for the amount of nothing I did all game waaaaaaaaah

[Alisae]

Yeah yeah whatever makes you sleep at night

[Alisae]

LOL

[Alisae]

Idunno why you expect me to be reasonable when we both know nothing you say to me will change my mind
If you want to change my mind
Do literally
Anything else
But talk to me

[Alisae]

And I can’t believe its not butter

[Alisae]

I don’t see why I should give you that opportunity to change my mind.
I don’t trust you and nothing you’ve said to me suggests that I could be wrong and that I should trust you.
If I am wrong, someone that I trust will talk me out of it, or you’ll just flip.
I don’t see what about my read on you I should question.
You’ve done nothing all game you’ve put a fucking awful vote on Datisi
You’re scum

[Alisae]

You’re still talking to me
You expect me to change my mind
But nothing you’re saying is making me want to change my mind and this expectation is so unrealistic that I think you scumreading me and presenting it as “this is not play townies ever have” is a self-defense measure.

[Alisae]

Then why did you mention several times that town here would think to reconsider?
What did you even say that would make town!me reconsider

[Alisae]

I am playing a normal game in the normal queue
Wow

Since when was your play "normal"??

Straight up: Are you scum or should I save us booth the trouble?

lol
But I’m town

[Alisae]

I "think" this is Town!Ali. That's the good news.

The bad news is I am genuinely lost and I hate this feeling. having too many scum reads is one -lousy- feeling, but having none is much much worse!

okay so let me help you
Why is everyone town?

[Alisae]

I "think" this is Town!Ali. That's the good news.

The bad news is I am genuinely lost and I hate this feeling. having too many scum reads is one -lousy- feeling, but having none is much much worse!

okay so let me help you
Why is everyone town?

Because I haven't seen much that screams scum to me. Nobody's even crumbing or scum slipping! Oh, what has the world come to?

I still have 4 pages to read though. In the mean time, if you would be so kind as to point out what exactly you didn't like about Luca's posts you quoted I'd be much obliged

keep reading also i think what would probably help you out is explaining your own townreads and then sorting from strongest townread to weakest townread and going from there
Who knows, maybe you might find something that you realize isn’t as important/relevant as you thought it might be?

[Alisae]

I’m just sayin dude
If you’re lost
The best thing to do is to talk about why you have each read you have and work with others to help get you back on track

[Alisae]

Spoiler: Ali's 636

========
Scum
========

Luca - His whole ISO sucks. Nothing in there is actually substanial at all. All of his reads come across as making stuff up on the fly (a lot of times when he is talking about a read, he gives himself room for said read to go either way). He's not really taking any risks and is in general playing really safe. I really want to see Luca go after something instead of just do nothing. Because a lot of what his ISO is nothing. And anything that like, remotely looks like analysis is really surface level stuff.
54 is just a gut scummy start mostly because I don't like the fact he has to feel like he has to have a stance first thing.
His shade in 85 is bad and comes across as scummy.
The Klick stance in 214 just sucks because the way he presents it, it really seems like it could go either way depending on what happens.
224 kind of just sucks. I'm not buying the "scum who is at a loss of what to do" narative at all because when I was reading that, I was generally liking that interaction with Billy.
318 is bad because its him just saying that Klick is town over and over again. The individual points aren't anything thats new. Also in the way its presented itself, I dislike this because he's just saying the samething over and over again. Like, he's trying to look like he's solving, but nothing in that post is actually adding anything new to the game. Its just non-stop praise and I don't like it.
Also apparently, accoriding to you, 325 contains content but it doesn't? Like, that can be faked.
488 is opportunistic. The narative being built here sucks. The vote is just scum.

Icon - I like Datisi so I don't like how Icon is pushing it. I hate how I'm immediately attacked in 593 while I'm catching up. I also kinda feel like Icon is definitely trying to control the game in a way I really don't like. Like, the threat in 618 kinda comes across as "how dare you question my authority." I state a scumread on Luca and that I'm not completely buying the Datisi wagon and I'm being attacked for it because its "not current" like????? Also, I'm really not buying how his confidence level goes from "maybe we're all town" to "I have this super confident read on Datisi. I'm using words to make it look like I WAS uncertain to make it look like I'm trying to solve, but I actually just had this really confident scumread the whole time hahahaha." Not to mention what the original fuss was over, is completely irrelevant. "Devoid of Life" and "Fake" who cares they both mean the samething. It seemed just really semantic to me.

OK. Now that I know what pings you about Luca, why do you think Icon is scum rather than town making a bad push?

P.S. I am extra careful with icon because we do tend to hard tunnel each other as town .. both of us. So beare with me on this one, please.

My Icon read is mostly based on the fact that while I was catching up, I felt like he was threatening me instead of trying to figure out my motivations in a less threatening way. If I didn’t feel like I was being threatened, then I would have probably just said that the read was PoE or just wait a day or 2 later where the read would

eventually

sort itself out.

[Alisae]

I do want to say that I could be overreacting and wrong with that and it could honestly just be a misunderstanding or I’m interpreting something wrong
But the in my face of “explain your stance on datisi’s wagon” when I was getting to it but wanted to investigate that more certainly wasn’t helping.

[Alisae]

but I also thing you're being too aggressive to the point he cannot rationally argue back

you’re better off ignoring that and just addressing the case as is
I see my arguement with him as a bunch of noise
Because if you leave room for scum to talk their way out of something, they’re going to talk their way out of it and someone is going to buy it.

[Alisae]

Like
I’m not going to lynch Luca by continuing to talk to Luca
So I don’t think there is much to gain in our conversation where I was purposely being aggressive and not allowing him to argue back
Because I didn’t want him to rationally argue back, he tried to address my concerns, and I wasn’t really satisfied with that. Simply put there’s nothing to really gain by allowing him to argue back.
So by being super vicious, I was hoping that I could make him
A. Crack under pressure and break him
B. Get him to stop posting

If A, that provides something that’s actually helpful.
If B, then the thread has less noise in it and I can have discussions about my actual read on him.

[Alisae]

Chemist be useful and post a votecount

[Alisae]

“The 2 worst disabilities a person could suffer from is laziness and procrastination. I would take blindness over that any day of the week”

[Alisae]

My explanation is flawless and there is literally nothing wrong with it why am I being bullied =(

[Alisae]

[Alisae]

I’m not wrong

[Alisae]

[Alisae]

Oh I’ll acknowledge it
85 is shading

[Alisae]

[Alisae]

I honestly can't tell of Luca's wrath is genuine town frustration or genuine scum caught for the wrong reasons.

@Luca: Can you calm down and remember it's a game? Also, can you talk to someone else other than Ali? I mean, state your case(s) but address me for instance.

just ignore it
Seriously
Its not alignment indicative

[Alisae]

I honestly can't tell of Luca's wrath is genuine town frustration or genuine scum caught for the wrong reasons.

@Luca: Can you calm down and remember it's a game? Also, can you talk to someone else other than Ali? I mean, state your case(s) but address me for instance.

just ignore it
Seriously
Its not alignment indicative

though I do think its faked mostly because he’s trying to paint it as scum indicative

[Alisae]

Like seriously
If you’re actually town
Why would you give a fuck about post 85
Its so insignificant in the grand scheme of things that I could make up any kind of bullshit I want about any post that was super early in the game and he would be furious about it
Like, don’t you think town here would think “Okay, maybe its not so important and I’ll just move on”
Instead, it gives scum!Luca an opportunity to make a really big deal about something that isn’t really a big deal at all

[Alisae]

Like seriously
If you’re actually town
Why would you give a fuck about post 85
Its so insignificant in the grand scheme of things that I could make up any kind of bullshit I want about any post that was super early in the game and he would be furious about it
Like, don’t you think town here would think “Okay, maybe its not so important and I’ll just move on”
Instead, it gives scum!Luca an opportunity to make a really big deal about something that isn’t really a big deal at all

[Alisae]

Didn’t mean to post the samething twice
Mybad
Mobile bugged out for me

[Alisae]

Like seriously
If you’re actually town
Why would you give a fuck about post 85
Its so insignificant in the grand scheme of things that I could make up any kind of bullshit I want about any post that was super early in the game and he would be furious about it
Like, don’t you think town here would think “Okay, maybe its not so important and I’ll just move on”
Instead, it gives scum!Luca an opportunity to make a really big deal about something that isn’t really a big deal at all

I ‘give a fuck’ because you used it to pad out your case and it was nonsense. The fact you deliberately ignored my question regarding it made it seem disingenuous to say the least - I would expect a Townie is this situation to either admit their error or back it up with their thought process.

85 is shading

[Alisae]

Spoiler:

========
Scum
========

Luca - His whole ISO sucks. Nothing in there is actually substanial at all. All of his reads come across as making stuff up on the fly (a lot of times when he is talking about a read, he gives himself room for said read to go either way). He's not really taking any risks and is in general playing really safe. I really want to see Luca go after something instead of just do nothing. Because a lot of what his ISO is nothing. And anything that like, remotely looks like analysis is really surface level stuff.
54 is just a gut scummy start mostly because I don't like the fact he has to feel like he has to have a stance first thing.
His shade in 85 is bad and comes across as scummy.
The Klick stance in 214 just sucks because the way he presents it, it really seems like it could go either way depending on what happens.
224 kind of just sucks. I'm not buying the "scum who is at a loss of what to do" narative at all because when I was reading that, I was generally liking that interaction with Billy.
318 is bad because its him just saying that Klick is town over and over again. The individual points aren't anything thats new. Also in the way its presented itself, I dislike this because he's just saying the samething over and over again. Like, he's trying to look like he's solving, but nothing in that post is actually adding anything new to the game. Its just non-stop praise and I don't like it.
Also apparently, accoriding to you, 325 contains content but it doesn't? Like, that can be faked.
488 is opportunistic. The narative being built here sucks. The vote is just scum.

I will summarize why this case 'fucking sucks' (to coin a phrase).

54 - This is a misrep; nowhere did I say or imply that I felt the need to have a stance (in fact I did the opposite, by saying I normally keep my cards close to my chest early on). My meta is pretty out of date but if you look at any of my previous games you'll probably find that I try and move the game out of RVS as soon as possible; I like to get down to the nitty gritty straight away. That's just how I approach the early game.

85 - I didn't throw shade at all, and the fact that Alisae has avoided my question to explain this not only shows that she fabricated it, but it's just sketchy behaviour in general.

214 - I gave a firm opinion on Klick, but obviously from my perspective it could go either way - I wasn't trying to pretend otherwise. Many times in the past I've been fooled by very convincing scum players, so I always carry around with me the thought that I could be wrong.

224 - I explained this one pretty well already; I felt like Klick was the one who actually did the test and was genuine in his intentions, while Datisi just kind of jumped on it and stole his thunder. This was the only meaningful thing she did until she was called out, so I think my comment was pretty fair.

318 - It's called Iso'ing - it's a standard practice in Mafia. I re-read the Iso giving my thoughts as they came to me, some new, some thoughts that were already established. This is also a complete contradiction to your earlier point that I'm scum because I didn't have a frm stance on Klick - make your mind up.

325 - err, I gave a read and my reasoning behind it. That is pretty much the definition of content.

488 - I will go into more detail about my Datisi progression soon, but it wasn't in the least opportunistic. I could have readily placed my vote on Datisi at any time.

this rebuttal sucks vote this shit

[Alisae]

Ali, I was reading you while you were catching up, and from the very first few posts I had a feeling you were gonna step in and protect Datisi. I just knew it. They way you handled the current gamestate (focusing on Luca rather then the actual current wagon) didn't feel right to me, and you said 'i'm caught up' without ever even touching on Datisi. I was mildly annoyed by this, and I started calling you out.

When you then started shifting perspectives and onto a scumread from me, I tend to overreact but also because I saw it coming from a mile away. You think I'm trying to control town? Well, maybe I am. I'm that kind of player. Especially in games where I feel I'm really into, I tend to try and control gamestate. Also I think I do this way more often as town then as scum, because of the confidence it takes.

My main issue is how easily you brushed the Datisi wagon aside, and I strongly felt that it could easily be just you/Datisi for scumteam.
However, I'm working really hard on my tunneling problems that I have and I'm open to anyone's suggestions so let's do this

how I catch-up has a lot to do with playstyle. I wanted to keep everything to myself and talk about things in one go but I still had some questions that were in my head and both of you were around. So I don’t really see a reason to talk about my concrete thoughts when I could question you and datisi. I was mostly still trying to figure things out and was trying to understand both perspectives.

I really don’t know what gave you this feeling, but I am kind of weirded out by your superstition? A couple of reasons
A. Why is it even there?
B. I think that its a sign that you thought I was going to go against you and you didn’t want to hear me out.
Like the fact you have it kind of tells me that you thought I was working against you?
Are you scum?
Thats the only reason why I would want to work against you.

I’m here to find the truth dude.

Anyhow, why do you feel like I needed to respond to the Datisi wagon immediately?
- Both of you were present while I was catching up
- Because both of you were present, I could have asked you two any questions I wanted giving a stance

Sure by the questions you can tell I didn’t exactly like the wagon and before I stated the wagon was shit.
And it was.
And I was going to address it.
But I didn’t see the point when I could just talk to the both of you before I needed to give an opinion on it. Like, I’m not in some rush or anything.

[Alisae]

Right now i've got an 'all or nothing' read on Ali. It's either Ali/Datisi or town!Ali.
I'm completely biased because of the way Ali handled the Datisi affair.

But there are a lot of worlds where this comes from town!Ali so i'm not touching that today.

I still think Datisi is the correct lynch however. Don't think I want to lynch outside of (Datisi/Nippleflips) today because I share the sentiment by Luca.

You cared so much about my stance on that wagon
But you don’t mention it or try to convince me that I could be wrong?

[Alisae]

this rebuttal sucks vote this shit

it doesn't and your case sucks

saying that everything I posted comes from scum and there is not truth in it whatsoever is a scumtell

Tho tbf
I’ve never been good at cases

[Alisae]

Like seriously
If you’re actually town
Why would you give a fuck about post 85
Its so insignificant in the grand scheme of things that I could make up any kind of bullshit I want about any post that was super early in the game and he would be furious about it
Like, don’t you think town here would think “Okay, maybe its not so important and I’ll just move on”
Instead, it gives scum!Luca an opportunity to make a really big deal about something that isn’t really a big deal at all

I'd make a big deal out of it too. You call him out for shading in that post, and there's literally nothing there. He asks you to explain it and you are dodging/refusing to go into it. Like, part of your case on him is literally a lie on your part, of shading in itself, or just blatant misrep. Take your pick.

it's not insignificant

its only significance is the fact that people are making it significant.
That post doesn’t really shape the

current

gamestate
Therefore it is insignificant
When it was posted-
Oh wait a minute that would go into the reason why that it was shading I can’t post that!

[Alisae]

In fact let me help you some.. THIS is a recent scum game of Ali's

P-edit: Why are you interpreting everything I say as if I'm saying "you're scum because of this"? Is it because I'm currently voting you? I am still trying to figure you out and you're not in "imminent danger" still. (I mean, sure.. this is a bloody MICRO so OF COURSE every vote counts, but by standards of a Micro L-2 is still not dangerous. Consuder yourself @L-4 .. with 5 votes on you in a 17 players game)

something I’ve done before as scum is linked scumgames where I’ve played so fucking horribly that because I wasn’t playing that horribly I was town.
Lets go into why this game isn’t a good example
A. That was multiball and this isn’t. Also I hate multiball
B. I didn’t take that game too seriously

A more recent scumgame thats singleball would probably be stellaris.
But the only thing that is very relevant in my scumgames is the fact that I freak out whenever I don’t feel like things are going my way.

[Alisae]

I don't share Ali's scumread on Luca

can you explain your read?

[Alisae]

I kind of still have my scumread on Icon tbh
I kind of don’t think his Datisi read is natural at this point

[Alisae]

L-1 Datisi sweetheart

Claim

btw
I don’t like this post

[Alisae]

Ali I think you came into this game with the intention of helping Datisi and steering away from her lynch, into a scumread of me.

There, my honest thoughts.

Who is Datisi’s partner
Hint: Don’t say its me

Additionally
Who is scum if me and Datisi are town

[Alisae]

If a game is developing towards the lynch of player x, it's only natural that a player catching up devotes time and attention to that. Especially with player x being at L-1. You saying you don't have to do that, or do it later and 'plenty of time' is just not natural.

see thats where you’re wrong
I’m not in a rush
I can talk to the both of you and try to figure out the truth before I say anything

People can keep cards to themself.
They don’t have to play out their hand.

[Alisae]

My posting isn’t accomplishing anything atm
I think I am just going to go do something else until more people start posting

[Alisae]

Can we talk about the Nipplegifs?

I mean
I won't say no, my read on flippynips is out there.
But I think we need tchill, klick, and flippygifs to start posting.

[Alisae]

VOTE: datisi

Neeed I say why

?!?!

I think not!!!

When I was asking Datisi about motivation behind the votes on her wagon, I was looking for stuff like this. If Datisi is town, this is the kind of scum hop-on we need to be looking out for.

what makes this hop-on scum and not luca's?

[Alisae]

i think i am going to continue my rejuv run instead of play this game

[Alisae]

i think i am going to continue my rejuv run instead of play this game

Ur probably right about waiting for input from the other 3/4 of the players

i'm always right

[Alisae]

I can't seem to find an anime gif to tell you that ur gifs sucks
i'm sad

[Alisae]

oh thats what that post was with the broken spoiler tag

[Alisae]

it sucks

[Alisae]

Luca has multiple posts running up to his vote, questioning and sorting Datisi to come to a scumread.

Nipples went 'lez do dis'

Yeah you just described why Luca's vote more scum then Nipples good job

[Alisae]

Luca has multiple posts running up to his vote, questioning and sorting Datisi to come to a scumread.

Nipples went 'lez do dis'

Yeah you just described why Luca's vote more scum then Nipples good job

I have about like, over 100 games played of mafia for some reason
more often then not, I see town go "lez do dis"
scum can do it too
its not really alignment indicative

[Alisae]

Sure town can do that

but Luca's progression is also what a town does when looking to sort so...

ok see the scum thing about is that you're making Luca's vote sound better then flippynips


its not

[Alisae]

From past game.

also side note what game was this?
the only time I vaguely remember playing with you was when I was playing on Mikan and I was scum in multiball
and was also trolling
fuck multiball

[Alisae]

yeah it was that weird game

don't remember specifically if it was mikan

but fuck multiball

you were a lot more screamy that game to prove your point (you were scum) and i don't see that here

it was definitely mikan and I don’t take multiball seriously
Also that was kinda a roleplaying alt except I’m bad at sticking to gimmicks like that

[Alisae]

I think there was actually only 1 game where I randed scum in multiball and I took it seriously
MAYBE there’s a 2nd but that’s a reach and even that 1 game I’m thinking about, I was V/LA for most of it
It was when I was hydraing with Transcend and Fro99er
A50 was in it
We won because we’re just the better players
But I vaguely remember doing some
Questionable things there
I think?

[Alisae]

@Ali, I'm having a tough time reading you. These short posts that just come off as one liners, that does not help me sort like at all. I think the VCA you did was good, I liked the analysis of Luca's content. But after that I'm lost in what seem to be zingers.

I’m banging my head against the wall trying to talk to scum because it seems like scum are in the major posters
A50 isn’t anywhere around atm (and is likely asleep) and everyone else who I think is town is voting Luca
I kinda need tchill and flippy and Klick to start posting

[Alisae]

Billy I am here if you need to ask me anything tho
All you need to do is just ask

[Alisae]

@Ali, I'm having a tough time reading you. These short posts that just come off as one liners, that does not help me sort like at all. I think the VCA you did was good, I liked the analysis of Luca's content. But after that I'm lost in what seem to be zingers.

I’m banging my head against the wall trying to talk to scum because it seems like scum are in the major posters
A50 isn’t anywhere around atm (and is likely asleep) and everyone else who I think is town is voting Luca
I kinda need tchill and flippy and Klick to start posting

I’m just sayin tho
I’m not accomplishing anything when the only people I’m talking to are scum

[Alisae]

Like right now I am looking for 2 things
A. The said mentioned players to come back into the game.
B. A flip

A comes first since we’re not even lynching anything except Datisi without A

[Alisae]

'm not a fan of how he handled that interaction with Ali, but I don't know how I would have handled that

here let me help you
how would you handle someone who is badgering and fucking with you for not only their entertainment but also reactions

[Alisae]

basically, how would you handle someone who was trolling you with the intent to fuck with you and wasn't looking for anything productive out of it other then a couple of laughs or to see a grown man break down
because thats what I was doing

[Alisae]

I'm mostly lost this game, but I think there may be something there.

thats generally a sign that its time to move onto the next day phase and that you've gotten mostly everything you really need out of the day

[Alisae]

VOTE: Datisi

The more I look at that reads list of hers the more I feel like it isn't genuine. I feel like it was always her intention to jump on the Kop wagon eventually but she was concerned about picking the easy target, so she stuck a half-hearted vote on me instead and then allowed herself to be

talked into

joining the easy wagon.

Luca votes here instead of in response to this

I'd argue scum!Icon needs a sheep more than he needs a mislynch candidate right now, but alas. I'll bite for now.
VOTE: Kop
Also I think this is L-2, but I've lost count, so, pls no lolhammers k thx.

and luca should be lynched for it

[Alisae]

like the timing of Luca's vote is so fucking awful
CAN WE LYNCH HIM ALREADY

[Alisae]

It's the lack of vote despite Luca scumreading Datisi? Ali is this what you mean as well?

It's that coupled with the overall fence sitting. Early on he's making reads, but he's leaving himself ways out of them. It's like he's looking for someone else to sign off. It's like he doesn't want to be out on his own. I get that we were all confused in the early game, but it came off that he didn't want to be pinned down to anything. Like if you asked for clarification he could easily revise it. When Ali had clipped those earlier posts of his it was fresh in my mind, so seeing the way he joined the Datisi wagon when he had been shading and shading and scum reading and then it was a wagon and he could join, it felt scummy.

omg this is literally how i was reading the game when i was reading it

[Alisae]

I think I even mentioned thats what I was reading too 1 sec

[Alisae]

Luca - His whole ISO sucks. Nothing in there is actually substanial at all. All of his reads come across as making stuff up on the fly (a lot of times when he is talking about a read, he gives himself room for said read to go either way). He's not really taking any risks and is in general playing really safe. I really want to see Luca go after something instead of just do nothing. Because a lot of what his ISO is nothing. And anything that like, remotely looks like analysis is really surface level stuff.

[Alisae]

before I was in the game Luca had around 46 posts
he has made 50+ posts since then
most of those consists of him continuing to do nothing and me fucking with him

[Alisae]

Icon what's your tchill read?

[Alisae]

dam
these are some good posts dude

[Alisae]

Billy who else is scum and why if you don't think its icon sell me on something

[Alisae]

yes I find it hard to believe that you didn't see Datisi's vote and think "wow, if I really think this vote is super scummy, I should probably just vote it right away because thats exactly what my natural instincts would do"

[Alisae]

thats not even rash
there's no such thing as rash voting unless the person you want to vote is at L-1 and you accidentally hammered them
Datisi wasn't even close to that point

[Alisae]

Billy, is my explanation for the timing of my vote believable to you; that I was multi-tasking and phone-posting at the time of the Datisi pressure (I’m clearly not making this bit up as I mentioned it just prior to the drama) and then proceeded to vote the following day when I had digested what had happened and had computer access to properly review what had occurred?

It's believable, but I don't think it makes it better. She was already your top scumlean 224. Then from 345 through to 357 you are building your scum read up, and even quoting old posts (I only play on mobile so I know that that shit is hard). So I don't know how mobile posting excuses you not voting based on conviction when you can build a case and quote history. Then the post immediately before you vote Datisi, you shade Icon for hopping off, and then he hops on 2 posts later after saying he never left the SR of Datisi. Honestly your defense about multitasking and mobile posting may make it worse. Even if it's true, why would that impact your ability to vote your read?

I’m not a robot where I make optimal play after optimal play. I don’t know what more I can do to explain this situation but I feel I’ve done my best here. Regarding the mobile, I’m not used to playing on it (especially while multi-tasking) so I tend to save the longer winded stuff until I can write it up properly.

I wasn’t shading Icon - I was genuinely wondering why he had seemingly changed his mind at the time - he answered it, I moved on.

you are so full of shit

[Alisae]

And yet everything I’ve said is consistent and has been backed-up.

this an actual scumclaim

[Alisae]

If you notice, I’ve not had to pause to think amongst this barrage of questioning and accusation, and yet everything I’ve said has been fully supported and consistent with what I’ve said previously. How is this possible? Because I’m being honest with what I’m saying.

you are still scumclaiming
please continue to scumclaim more!

[Alisae]

I'm not actually fucking with Luca
I think he just started to scumclaim over and over again
I can actually prove it too

[Alisae]

hands up
ur caught

[Alisae]

i will now read you your amanda rights

[Alisae]

oh wait
its called Miranda
fuck I'm educated luuuuuuuuuuul

[Alisae]

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, do you wish to speak to me?

[Alisae]

Billy who else is scum and why if you don't think its icon sell me on something

I started typing out a reads list, then j realized I'm still mostly confused. I see how Icon doesn't look good in that interaction, but I've seen Icon play that style before and he was town. I like to look at voting behavior more than anything else personally.

A50, why did Luca's answers seem sufficient to you? Was it just the tone?

okay lets talk voting behavoir
who sticks out?

[Alisae]

Also, I love that Ali just called Miranda rights Amanda rights. I'm also amused that she basically put Luca under arrest. Is that a citizen's arrest?

THEY SOUND SIMILAR WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH ;~;

[Alisae]

Billy who else is scum and why if you don't think its icon sell me on something

I started typing out a reads list, then j realized I'm still mostly confused. I see how Icon doesn't look good in that interaction, but I've seen Icon play that style before and he was town. I like to look at voting behavior more than anything else personally.

A50, why did Luca's answers seem sufficient to you? Was it just the tone?

okay lets talk voting behavoir
who sticks out?

Unfortunately my work calendar just exploded, so before I do vote analysis, I need to be done at work and have the kids asleep. Probably 12 hours.

kk

[Alisae]

> you think something isn't super lynchable
> people start voting it
> suddenly that said thing that wasn't super lynchable is now lynchable

[Alisae]

Billy who else is scum and why if you don't think its icon sell me on something

I started typing out a reads list, then j realized I'm still mostly confused. I see how Icon doesn't look good in that interaction, but I've seen Icon play that style before and he was town. I like to look at voting behavior more than anything else personally.

A50, why did Luca's answers seem sufficient to you? Was it just the tone?

okay lets talk voting behavoir
who sticks out?

Unfortunately my work calendar just exploded, so before I do vote analysis, I need to be done at work and have the kids asleep. Probably 12 hours.

You want to save your analysis until you have time to do it properly, just like I did, so surely you can relate to my situation after all.

Okay but thats literally different then typing
VOTE: datisiVOTE:
(with correct coding ofc)

[Alisae]

thats playing the game and posting content and analysis
if you see Datisi's Kop vote and at a first glance go "this vote is really scummy"
All you need to do on your phone is to click the button that allows you to quote the post
AND THEN VOTE IT
AND THATS IT

[Alisae]

no dude
ur just scum

[Alisae]

dude
sometimes you just out yourself as scum
it happens to the best of us

[Alisae]

its not even your fault things would go smoothly for you and Icon if I didn't replace in
honestly I think its possible you 2 would have won

[Alisae]

flippy just vote luca dude

[Alisae]

she was always better dude

[Alisae]

Luca on the otherhand
not so much

[Alisae]

yay
vote luca

[Alisae]

well
when you want a scumflip
just vote luca

[Alisae]

Dw it’ll be over when you know it

[Alisae]

Honestly just read everything up to where I post my reads and did some VCA
The rest is mostly just me badgering luca and me being as annoying as possible

[Alisae]

My interactions with Luca I doubt you’re going to get anything since I’m being really annoying on purpose

[Alisae]

Why did you want to kill Datisi again?

[Alisae]

Why did you want to kill Datisi again?

The vibes i got from the whole interaction with Icon. Plus somethings felt off from the beginning with her

can u be more specific?

[Alisae]

And yet everything I’ve said is consistent and has been backed-up.

If you notice, I’ve not had to pause to think amongst this barrage of questioning and accusation, and yet everything I’ve said has been fully supported and consistent with what I’ve said previously. How is this possible? Because I’m being honest with what I’m saying.

I kind of want to point out like I said this already by calling these scumclaims but like

This isn’t town mentality.

[Alisae]

Like dude
If you wanna give it a shot that town thinks “I want to be consistent and I want everything I say to be backed up by evidence”
Shoot
I would be very interested to hear it

Pedit: okay I get that it annoys you, but this is serious

[Alisae]

Like hearing that shit would annoy me to
I think this is serious and has some value in it

[Alisae]

Kay

[Alisae]

@ali— who else is scum to you? I know you’ve thrown shade at Icon but is he a real sr & why?

he's definitely a real SR
I explained it in the same post Luca explained it (and while I did tell A50 that I could be wrong there, because quite frankly its definitely possible, I'm not as sure on Icon as I am with Luca) but also there just like some other things
- in 774 he has this superstition that I was going to defend Datisi no matter what. There are a lot of problems with this tho. That implies I'm working against him. If he's town, he wants to work with me. 798 he doubles down on it. And considering he was super interested in wanting me to talk about the Datisi wagon, he hasn't really brought that up my own thoughts on Datisi. I mean, aside from the fact that he was interested in my thoughts on Datisi, but he doesn't want to discuss my actual read on her with me, this supersition itself doesn't make sense. Why is it there? 788 is where I kind of just bring this up
- 836 sucks and 843 also sucks. From your POV you're town so I don't feel like I need to explain this one.

[Alisae]

Also did you read the whole thread before you started?

I started to read the game as soon as I replaced in if thats what you're asking?
I'm not completely sure but like also keep in mind I haven't eaten anything yet, I've been up since 3am, I am tired as fuck, and about to go to a class, so I could be just misunderstanding what you're asking if that doesn't answer your question

[Alisae]

I'd like to know why there are votes on Luca. Specifically from Billy and datisi.

If someone tells me to go back and read I'm not going to do that due to the large number of posts I've missed.

If you refuse to tell me still, that's understandable, but I'm not going to go back and read.

========
Town
========

Datisi - Her early hunting with Billy and in general is fine and not faked. For the most part, it looks natural and good. I think her read list is definitely fine. Her stance on Kop is perfect and probably comes from a townie because putting pressure on that slot isn't really worthwhile. Her Luca read is fine. When I see her talking about it, I don't really care about what she feels like is faked by Luca, but its enough and specific enough to say that her concern there definitely exists and I believe it. Her wagon is also WAY too quick for my liking. The VCA stuff gets its own post. Also, I definitely feel like her interactions with Icon are good for her. I buy the conclusion she's giving me in 521 considering the progression she's talking about in 612.

Billy - Early game dude
Klick - His early game solving definitely existed and it wasn't bad. It looked natural and fine to me.
A50 - I think him being the first one to mention Kop like at all and wanting to put pressure on there looks good for him.

Flippy - A lot of the posts he's making like, aren't really that bad at all. His reasoning for why Kop shouldn't be voted is perfect. 160 is definitely fine aside from the tchill stuff but I definitely see how he got that conclusion from tchill. And his actual move onto Datisi doesn't really feel that scum motivated? Like through his posts, it seems like he's trying to figure out what's going on and trying to solve and I buy it.

tchill - Super wrong but doesn't really come across as trying to push an agenda or control the town.

========
VCA
========

Kop (4) [L-1] - Almost50, Iconeum, Datisi, Billy Pilgrim
Emperor flippyNips (1) - Kop
Tchill13 (1) - Klick
Datisi (1) - Tchill13

Not Voting (4) - Luca Blight, Emperor flippyNips

--

Datisi (4) [L-1] - Tchill13, Emperor flippyNips, Luca Blight, Iconeum
Kop (3) [L-2] - Almost50, Datisi, Billy Pilgrim
Emperor flippyNips (1) - Kop
Tchill13 (1) - Klick


So I'm usually not someone who goes to VCA here, but I kinda of want to note that the Kop wagon was around and way more people had time to give actual imput on it. It sat around and didn't really do much.
The Datisi however was put to L-1 VERY quickly.
The only real similar voter here is Icon, who moves from Kop to Datisi.

Kop (3) [L-1] - Almost50, Iconeum, Datisi, Billy Pilgrim
Datisi (3) [L-2] - Tchill13, Emperor flippyNips, Luca Blight
Emperor flippyNips (1) - Kop
Tchill13 (1) - Klick

I think at around this formation is where I want to say that there is 1 scum on each wagon. I feel like thats pretty safe to say considering the speed of each wagon.
Kop's wagon here I feel like from a Micro perspective took way more time to form and its kind of natural. A50's vote is good as explained to why I'm TRing him. Datisi and Billy really don't seem to know whats going on here and kind of feel like they're just along for the ride. And it really doesn't look that bad from both of them tbh.
Then I feel like Icon if anything is like, trying to persue with some kind of plan. I don't think its a reach to say that he's definitely trying to control how the day plays out.

Now the Datisi wagon I really don't like how quickly it was formed.
Tchill was on it before kop was even put to L-1, and I don't really feel like his vote is where scum would be here.
I'm not actually sure why Nips is on the wagon, but like, his posts prior to joining it looked decentish, and his protest against the Kop wagon is good.
And Luca's vote just fucking sucks.

Add Icon's vote onto Datisi's wagon and you have a wagon that feels artificially boosted to L-1.
It definitely screams 2 scum to me.

========
Scum
========

Luca - His whole ISO sucks. Nothing in there is actually substanial at all. All of his reads come across as making stuff up on the fly (a lot of times when he is talking about a read, he gives himself room for said read to go either way). He's not really taking any risks and is in general playing really safe. I really want to see Luca go after something instead of just do nothing. Because a lot of what his ISO is nothing. And anything that like, remotely looks like analysis is really surface level stuff.
54 is just a gut scummy start mostly because I don't like the fact he has to feel like he has to have a stance first thing.
His shade in 85 is bad and comes across as scummy.
The Klick stance in 214 just sucks because the way he presents it, it really seems like it could go either way depending on what happens.
224 kind of just sucks. I'm not buying the "scum who is at a loss of what to do" narative at all because when I was reading that, I was generally liking that interaction with Billy.
318 is bad because its him just saying that Klick is town over and over again. The individual points aren't anything thats new. Also in the way its presented itself, I dislike this because he's just saying the samething over and over again. Like, he's trying to look like he's solving, but nothing in that post is actually adding anything new to the game. Its just non-stop praise and I don't like it.
Also apparently, accoriding to you, 325 contains content but it doesn't? Like, that can be faked.
488 is opportunistic. The narative being built here sucks. The vote is just scum.

Icon - I like Datisi so I don't like how Icon is pushing it. I hate how I'm immediately attacked in 593 while I'm catching up. I also kinda feel like Icon is definitely trying to control the game in a way I really don't like. Like, the threat in 618 kinda comes across as "how dare you question my authority." I state a scumread on Luca and that I'm not completely buying the Datisi wagon and I'm being attacked for it because its "not current" like????? Also, I'm really not buying how his confidence level goes from "maybe we're all town" to "I have this super confident read on Datisi. I'm using words to make it look like I WAS uncertain to make it look like I'm trying to solve, but I actually just had this really confident scumread the whole time hahahaha." Not to mention what the original fuss was over, is completely irrelevant. "Devoid of Life" and "Fake" who cares they both mean the samething. It seemed just really semantic to me.

[Alisae]

tchill its okay you don't have to read I don't really suggest reading most of what you missed either

If you disagree with anything I would like to have a conversation about it?

[Alisae]

Have you reread the entire game? Specifically the first 15 pages?

yeah I read the game as soon as I replaced in it was a very quick read

[Alisae]

Tchill why do u TR Luca?

[Alisae]

Tchill why do u TR Luca?

I'm about to lay back down. I'll get to this though. It's early game reasons I'll have to look it up, sorry.

No worries I'm excited to see that you are still around and posting and i hope we can talk about it soon

[Alisae]

Lucas's early game was way better than anyone else's from my perspective.

talk to me about it?
When I read the game I found that Luca didn't really do anything significant or substantial like at all

[Alisae]

Ali you invited me to your dance a while ago. Invitation accepted. Lets go.





You think you can fucking shade me like this? I don't care if you are playing the douche deliberately or not, ur dead.

I am the bone of my essay
Procrastination is my body, and caffeine is my blood
I have ignored over a thousand deadlines
Unknown to MLA format, nor known to passing grades
Have withstood responsibility to fail many classes
Yet those classes never teach me anything
So, as I hand in,
UNLIMITED ESSAY WORKS

[Alisae]

tchill gets a response when i'm sober
YAY WEED

[Alisae]

tchill I am probably enjoying my weed and then going to bed so I can address your stuff when I wake up
My brain is off (tbf tho it always is) and I'm tired so...

[Alisae]

Iconeum bruh
Do you

really

want to do this?
Like, really?
Do you really think this is in your best interest?

[Alisae]

I’m gonna bring out some ancient technology
Just for you

[Alisae]

Luckily for you
I am tired and I want to sleep
Hit me as hard as you fucking can because I swear to dog

I will hit you so fucking hard like a fucking wrecking ball
Against me, you’re not a powerful dragon.
You’re a neutered dog

[Alisae]

Ok trashtalking is fun goodnight

[Alisae]

I want to look into Alisae's meta next chance I get, because multiple people have said this is her town game and I want to confirm that for myself before accepting it as fact. Could those who have made that claim go into more detail about the differences between this game and Alisae's scum game?

This isn’t really something I can change due to
A. Perfectionism
B. Insecurities
C. Depression
But more often when I’m scum, I panic more easily and I try to make the game less fun by telling everyone that they suck. When I’m fucked, I have a REALLY hard time hiding it.
I also have way less fun when I play scum and I don’t like it, but my scumrange is pretty far if I want to put the effort in.
I don’t think I’ve been able to fool A50 yet. I remember more games when I was scum and he was town and he was always on my ass, but I hardly ever really remember him being on my ass when we’re both town.

When I’m not fucked tho, I can get to late game easily, I just really have a hard time actually winning in late game, especially when I’m by myself.

I’m not going to link you games, I believe that you can manipulate meta just by the games you provide alone, so you’re going to have to do look through that yourself

[Alisae]

LEGEND FOR ISO MAPS

+ working together with somebody, townreading them, defending them, buddying them, helping them, allying with them
- working against somebody, scumreading them, attacking them, pushing them, discrediting them
= neutral interactions, usually quoting somebody without either attacking or defending them, sometimes these are just interactions about setup spec or passing mentions of a slot, sometimes this is responding to a case someone made against you without making it clear whether you’re scumreading them in return or townreading them.
== stating explicitly that a person is a null read
? I didn’t understand this reaction. this modifies a previous symbol, so +? means “is this an interaction with a townread?” and -? means “is this an interaction with a scumread?” and +?-? means i have no clue what’s going on in that post.
v votes
u unvotes but only if someone says who they’re unvoting because i’m lazy
☾ ☀ marks boundaries between days. (if the thread isn't locked during the night then i use sun and moon both, otherwise i just pick one)
✝ a gravestone to mark that a slot has died.
r the slot they're talking about was replaced
R the slot I'm ISO mapping was replaced
⌾ marks a slot that has been tree-stumped/innocent child reveal
_ conspicuous absences (a post that mentions almost everybody in the playerlist except one person)
k dayvig (real or fake)

[Alisae]

I am ooing to make 2 maps
1 for Luca
1 for Icon

Luca’s will only cover posts he made before I replaced in (when I replaced in, he had 46 or something posts), since I don’t think that most of the posts he made after I replaced in were actually productive, and even then, everything that caused me to scumread Luca is in those 46 posts, and the main focus of my push is what he was doing before I replaced in.
I interpret Luca’s posts after I replace in as not really alignment indicative mostly because I’m trolling him and he’s expecting to get something out of it that he isn’t finding, so most of it is just noise.

Iconeum’s ISO will cover 200+ posts, and I’m very fucking slow so this could take me awhile.

The maps will come first
Then I’ll push Iconeum harder.

If there’s any disagreement about anything, please point it out and use it as a talking and engaging point.

[Alisae]

ali what are you doing up?

I kinda just woke up

[Alisae]

fine i'm gone for the weekend anyway

hardclaim cop

have fun iso'ing me

??????????
did you panic because I was going to draw out your progression for everyone to see because it makes no sense?
I have so many problems with this.
I don't even want to lynch you today, I want Luca and nothing you were going to do was going to divert my attention away from that

[Alisae]

I mean
Icon if you were just going to claim Cop I feel like you would atleast want to waste my time
shit doesn't make sense

[Alisae]

whatever its weird and wacky
you aren't my focus so I'll leave you alone
If anything it just leaves me with questions and I'm not even sure where to start.

A lot of my frustration comes from you not really wanting to poke about my thought processes and try to understand them.

I get that I probably frustrated you but like, why?
This really just bothers me a lot since you kind of just seem to want to push against me instead of try and figure out why I am thinking out reads the way I do.

[Alisae]

Icon jesus christ why are you like this

ignore it, you'll just get a headache

[Alisae]

A lot of my frustration comes from you not really wanting to poke about my thought processes and try to understand them.

nice misrep

did you ever want to talk to me about something you disagreed about my Datisi read?
Show me, I could have missed it

[Alisae]

I know I mentioned this earlier
but I was going to go into this with the mentality to dominate (from my perspective, I've been enjoying this considering its been awhile since I've been in situations as town where I felt like I was in a 1v1, and considering I like you, I wanted to have some fun with it and add in some shit talk).
I feel like I've treated you fine compared to Luca

Are you not enjoying the game because of me?

[Alisae]

597
600
604
774
785
786
799
804
808
815
817

All of these are posts where I engage with you for the intention of reading you/engaging you over your reads or mine

I know in Datisi in particular, none of these posts actually describe what I'm looking for, which is addressing the reason why I find Datisi town and my Datisi read itself.
In these posts, you have never addressed the read itself and instead just said "You came into the thread with the goal to protect her"
Because you never addressed the read itself, you came across as scummy to me.
Your mentality was that I was working against you, and I don't want to work against you
If we are both town, I want to work with you and solve the game with you
I really don't feel like you gave me room to do that when it came to Datisi because you kind of just ignored why I was defending Datisi so hard and refused to be open to town!Datisi

[Alisae]

I know I mentioned this earlier
but I was going to go into this with the mentality to dominate (from my perspective, I've been enjoying this considering its been awhile since I've been in situations as town where I felt like I was in a 1v1, and considering I like you, I wanted to have some fun with it and add in some shit talk).
I feel like I've treated you fine compared to Luca

Are you not enjoying the game because of me?

If you wanna bully your way through the lynches, you'll have to deal with me first. If you have an actual scumread on Luca, that's fine. Datisi is also pushing there and I've come to terms for her reasoning. I have not done so with yours and have dedicated a larger post as to the why.

So why are you 'not' treating Luca fine?

I'm having fun this game don't you worry about me

First off, I feel better that you're having fun. If you weren't, I would have left.
Secondly, a lot of my viciousness, hostility, and aggressiveness towards Luca is because of my mentality that if I give Luca room to talk, he will get someone to townread them, and I don't want to leave him with that breathing room.
I also just
don't see him being town?
I really just don't.

[Alisae]

You pushed hard against Datisi wagon without bothering to explain why it was town, until you were pushed to do so.

I feel like I've said this so many times and you like
don't want to read what I'm saying at all

I don't feel like repeating myself anymore
why do you feel like I needed to urgently respond to your concern as soon as possible?
You and Datisi were both actively posting in thread and I wanted to engage both of you before I describe my thoughts ITT
I wanted to attempt to grasp the situation at its fullest.

[Alisae]

You also don't see him as scum. You vote him, a LOT. Also 'bruuuh'. That was literally the extent of your scumread on him.

I wanted to put my thoughts in 1 cohesive post.
I don't see what's wrong with that?

[Alisae]

Fuck sake, I remember why I stopped playing this game now.

(this post isn't intended to cause anyone any harm or be intentionally hurtful)

I almost replaced out when I saw alisae replace in.

I hope you keep playing. Just ignore the tunneling and vomit posting.

I also share this sentiment, for what it's worth. Seeing 10+ pages of 'Luca is obvious scum why isn't he lynched yet also I'm just trying to piss him off' has really killed any chance I have of catching up any time soon, considering my current circumstances.

Don't read those 10+ pages
you won't get anything out of them

[Alisae]

636 finally is more extensive, but alas made up.

'Luca - His whole ISO sucks. Nothing in there is actually substanial at all. All of his reads come across as making stuff up on the fly (a lot of times when he is talking about a read, he gives himself room for said read to go either way). He's not really taking any risks and is in general playing really safe. I really want to see Luca go after something instead of just do nothing. Because a lot of what his ISO is nothing. And anything that like, remotely looks like analysis is really surface level stuff.
54 is just a gut scummy start mostly because I don't like the fact he has to feel like he has to have a stance first thing.'

Did anyone think Luca was shading/not taking a stance? I sure didn't. Because he was.

After this there is a TON of bullshit posts directed at Luca that contain little more then 'waah waah scum is crying' or worse.

I seriously don't feel like Ali is serious about this case he has on Luca, and it feels like the ketchup was 'steered' onto a Luca scumread from the getgo.

A lot of the content in this post is "Ali isn't explaining anything"
thats intentional, that catch-up was mostly for myself.
I was always planing on writing a few posts wraping up my general thoughts. 602 is where I mentioned that I was going to touch up on it, and I followed through on that.

As for this itself, one thing I saw a lot in Luca's ISO was that he was leaving a lot of room in how he was talking about reads for things to change, and he was doing this about like, mostly everything. It really bothered me. He did it for you, he did it for Klick, he did it for Datisi. His play really came across as adjusting his reads to tailor to what was going on at the time.

Why did you think the catch-up was for you?
It wasn't, it was for me to get up to speed and caught up.

[Alisae]

Klick
Billy
Datisi
Tchill
Icon

Alisae
Luca
A50
Emperor

Top is town to the point that I'm not interested in lynching anytime soon. Bottom is what's left. Datisi in particular has looked townie in her interaction with Icon - her motives in that exchange clearly seemed to be sorting Icon over anything else in a way that seemed genuine.

Also, thanks Ali. I'll have my own look soon.

im here if u need me

[Alisae]

Klick/Icon can I try to sell you on Luca atm or would that be like, a waste of time?
Like if I brought up something on why you should vote him, would you engage on me about it and would we have a conversation about it if you disagree, and if you agreed would you vote him?

[Alisae]

And yet everything I’ve said is consistent and has been backed-up.

If you notice, I’ve not had to pause to think amongst this barrage of questioning and accusation, and yet everything I’ve said has been fully supported and consistent with what I’ve said previously. How is this possible? Because I’m being honest with what I’m saying.

I called these posts scumclaims and I see them as scumclaims and I think they hold some value.

I don't feel like this is town mentality.
I actually had a conversation about this with Llamarble (probably one of the best scumhunters I've ever had the pleasure of playing with) which came from a game where they were pushing scum, and one of the points he used was ["He even admitted X" is one of my favorite scum-constructions!] and I wanted him to explain the concept further on why that was scummy
Source

He thne writes this
Subject: TBD Mafia 2 [game over]

I've noticed in my own (and others' but most of my scumtells are differences I notice between my own scum / town games) play that scum gravitate toward this phrasing more often.
I believe the reason for this is scum feel a greater need to concretely justify themselves to others whereas town know that their own righteousness will clear them eventually.
So scum go for arguments like "Behold the inconsistency or error this player made!" or better yet "they :admitted: to this scummy thing!" because that even claims their target shouldn't disapprove of them.
Sorry if I haven't fully expressed the idea, but I think it's an important one. I guess to summarize, scum want their reasoning to be ironclad and look really good; town want their reasoning to be right.

I feel like this is a correct way to use this, because Luca is trying to say that he's consistent and he backed his stuff up and because of that he's implying that his play is better then mine.
I don't feel like this town because of that.

I don't think Luca comes across as wanting to be right at all, but rather have something thats just very solid and looks good, and him saying that his posts look good and are solid and using that to imply that his play is better really pings me here

[Alisae]

oh yeah btw
the person he was pushing was scum
ik i said that, but I want to reiterate that.

[Alisae]

if you were to take Luca's play here, do you see anything that would suggest that he wants to be correct?

[Alisae]

also what sample pool are you drawing from when it comes to Luca's meta?

[Alisae]

and as for him wanting to be correct here?
I'm not quite sure why you need meta for that.

[Alisae]

@Kilcik I'm decently interested in your thoughts on these 2 people

A50
Emperor