Micro 885: Crown on the Ground (Game Over)

[RCEnigma]

I got a page and a half deep before it occured to me I should make my presence known!

To whom it may concern:

Hi!

[RCEnigma]

Page and a half I have pops as hard town. Probably because we're masons together. Hectic and gameplay might(+rand? Maybe?) be scum/scum and correspondence is going to be rough to read, literally and literally.

[RCEnigma]

Lil Uzi Vert, do you not think the crown talk has been productive?

Answering on his behalf. No.

It was a lot of dictating what towns stance should be before clarification on the mechanic.

Also, this setup could potentially be follow the cop and that's testable night 1. Now that that's out there, we can call the crown night 1 and scum has to medic dodge if the crown goes to town. Night 1 is potentially the MOST dangerous night for scum not knowing what the hidden ability is.

@mod: is the hidden ability universal or unique for each slot?

Losing my train of thought. Obviously if there is no protection it doesn't work that way but scum don't know the likelihood, so think of this as a collective Gambit opportunity.

X-shot could also pose a problem if it is anything less than 3. But if there is a protect and an investigative this method could produce potentially 4 soft clears and a psuedo clear in the crown recipient.

Assuming best case scenario.

Each hidden ability is unique. -OS

[RCEnigma]

I have a feeling the crown abilities aren't gonna be as powerful as cop checks, I think they'll be a lot less significant than that.

RCEnigma:

I think you're town, only way you'd be scum was if you were scum with me - so only a slight scumlean for now.

Anyway, why Gameplay as I as the two scum?

Follow the cop doesn't need an actual cop. Anything that soft clears. Not sure role modifiers fit in micro queue but this is like...my second micro so I dunno.

[RCEnigma]

RCEnigma:

I think you're town, only way you'd be scum was if you were scum with me - so only a slight scumlean for now.

What in tarnation

We just finished the purge where he used the same read I think as town?? And got hard pushed for it. I'll double-check though.

[RCEnigma]

+rand just means a better than random chance.

[RCEnigma]

here post 636

[RCEnigma]

Maybe, I stole it from the fake RC.

[RCEnigma]

Ya lately I am really not thinking Hectic is looking good and pops I replaced on and got bad vibes from you, but now I am at a place where I want to sheep you.

But how dare you not call me by my professional name......don't let the happen again.

VOTE: Hectic

Maybe I'm wrong about hectic + gameplay?

Cuz this is meh. Bad vibes from what?

[RCEnigma]

Yeah no I thought the same but it may just be a mannerism. However j didn't like it used here since it could easily just be to pocket myself or egduf.

[RCEnigma]

However j didn't like it used here since it could easily just be to pocket myself or egduf.

Was thinking this. I mean if he really did get hard pushed for it as you say why would he attempt to do it again? It doesn't really make sense for scumhectic to do it knowing it would attract attention but neither does townhectic want to do it.

In retrospect I was the only person pushing him for it. Menalque defended hectic against me over it.

[RCEnigma]

I don't have a problem with the wording this time. But it comes off like "hey remember this thing I did as town that last game?"

[RCEnigma]

Strongest townreads at the moment are pops and egdUf. These reads are little scuffed maybe perhaps could be possibly, so I'll reread the thread and post properly tomorrow, or maybe this evening actually.

For now:
UNVOTE: Correspondence
VOTE: Doctor Drew

Can I Ask why you don't suspect my slot or X Maya's who both lurked out of the game then?

[RCEnigma]

So I've ruled out hectic + egduf as a team and Hectic + Gameplay to a lesser extent. That's not a read on their alignments individually though.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Correspondence

On the grounds of inconsistency.

[RCEnigma]

They still scumread egduf but don't scumread Hectic because their partner would have come to their defense to protect them. Which correspondence' scumread did. That's...not organic to me.

[RCEnigma]

To me it seems like they needed a reason to back off of Hectic so they could push elsewhere and weren't considering how slots are interacting with Hectic.

That's kind of a stretch but plausible.

[RCEnigma]

I'm over having to individually read Hydra heads.

Assuming you're town, I'm town, and hectic is town then it's bad for correspondence to continue pushing hectic as he's getting backup or at least people are flipping to townreads on him.

If correspondence is scum with Drew then even more so since there is a potential 1v1 brewing there. Plus they get towncred where it isn't due if drew flips since they called Drew wolfy a couple times but never really pushed it.

[RCEnigma]

Spicy.

[RCEnigma]

It could be scummy or it could not be scummy. Same as every other person, what is your point?

The onus is on them to settle their reads. I'm not using two different sets of reads to form one opinion of one slot. I'm just not.

So yes I can be over it, I'm not advocating a lynch on correspondence because they're a hydra. Pops was using the fact to defend them. No policy involved.

[RCEnigma]

They still scumread egduf but don't scumread Hectic because their partner would have come to their defense to protect them. Which correspondence' scumread did. That's...not organic to me.

I don't understand this post still which seems to be the crux of your argument.

By the way pick one:

-it doesn't make sense to interpret Correspondence's post as though Correspondence is trying to determine who Correspondence's partner is
or
- you're lazily using "they" instead of egduf's or Hectic's singular pronoun and it makes your post harder to read.

Why would correspondence try to determine their own partner?

And I won't use he/she unless they specify it as a preference. They will suffice.

[RCEnigma]

Thought you meant correspondence I read it incorrectly. Would probably feel weird to me but I'll see what I can do.

[RCEnigma]

Boy hydras are a pain in the ass. No offense correspondence, I like you.

[RCEnigma]

Her last post, I'm extrapolating a bit.

Drew's Hectic vote could be viewed as smokescreening for edguf actually since it's a target Correspondence is partial to

So this is actually interesting, I think along these lines but with Drew and correspondence so break this read down on egduf for me.

[RCEnigma]

But for some reason I really dislike the corresp votes. Like I haven't seen one vote that didn't have some real flimsy reasoning. So in some way I do like corresp as town too.

Wait, what

Is the last sentence here related at all to the first two?

At least one correspondence voter is scum and correspondence doesn't make sense as a bus in this gamestate therefore Correspondence town

Then vote me. I believe in you.

[RCEnigma]

Dunn I am against bullying so I support you!
But you can't really have 0 scumreads... right?

Why not?

[RCEnigma]

What does a Correspondence flip even tell anyone

You get a real reason to scumread me if it flips town.

[RCEnigma]

I haven't tried to diffuse you, I just think you've townslipped this game and we aren't seeing eye to eye on reads.

[RCEnigma]

This hasn't been town!RCEnigma any this game

His first post is saying the first post and a half of the game puts me as hard town

First post and a half of the game I posted memes or something I don't remember

But this is the guy who mislynched me in StarCraft Mafia when I was obvtown and specifically spending multiple night actions trying to doc him

Also out of context, there was a plan that didn't work out. Well it did but unlynchable unkillable etc. Etc.

[RCEnigma]

Hmm... Is scum just two goons I wonder?

[RCEnigma]

This man gets it.

[RCEnigma]

I think I like the gimmick.

Anyways. I am of two minds right now, the game stagnating near deadline made me want to say scum is content with either of these lynch options. But correspondence recent posts and vote on me makes me want to double down on the correspondence + Drew train.

[RCEnigma]

What effort? You're literally calling me scum because we disagree on 1 read and then calling it poor progression.

Drew flips reads on both you and hectic with no interaction and that's fine.
Correspondence flips reads on hectic with no interaction and that's fine.

I flip my read on Hectic after interacting with him and having my concerns addressed but it's my progression that's fake? Weird how that works.

[RCEnigma]

Welp I'm probably going down here. Keep in mind my wagon has 0 substance and while pops is likely town and just wrong that's not a 100% read. I do think scum is using her as a catalyst if town.

[RCEnigma]

I do think scum is using her as a catalyst if town.

Who are you referring to?

You'll find my surprise scumread on my wagon already.

[RCEnigma]

Oh we have 5 hours. So I'm an X-shot bodyguard.

[RCEnigma]

I'm dead by the morning even if this Lynch doesn't go through. Sorry sorry.

[RCEnigma]

@oversoul, is crown voting down directly after the lynch?

Will it be resolved before night actions are taken?

[RCEnigma]

My wagon wasn't being piled on till a couple hours ago so...

[RCEnigma]

But this is why I suggested follow the cop. Pop's theory that there weren't X-shot roles was town and I'll leave it at that.

[RCEnigma]

Strongest townreads at the moment are pops and egdUf. These reads are little scuffed maybe perhaps could be possibly, so I'll reread the thread and post properly tomorrow, or maybe this evening actually.

For now:
UNVOTE: Correspondence
VOTE: Doctor Drew

C

an

I

A

sk why you don't suspect my slot or X Maya's who both lurked out of the game then?

Bg crumb.

[RCEnigma]

Welp I'm probably going down here. Keep in mind my wagon has 0 substance and while pops is likely town and just wrong that's not a 100% read. I do think scum is using her as a catalyst if town.

Oh we have 5 hours. So I'm an X-shot bodyguard.

You could've claimed a few hours earlier when you acknowledged that you were probably getting lynched?

I've got a lot going on. No one checked in. Meh.

[RCEnigma]

I want pops or egduf crowned.

[RCEnigma]

My play has all been around my role including wanting the crown holder to be predetermined. That's not risky.

[RCEnigma]

The wagon can swing to literally anyone.

[RCEnigma]

I mean it's risky if you're scum, hence why I think you're telling the truth. Definitely makes sense to predetermine the crownwearer then. I'm most happy with pops, still like Egduf but she's dropped her activity a lot recently.

A lot of people are barely playing, idk if I would use it as a scumtell.

[RCEnigma]

Good question. I was thinking of the secret service but did CIA instead. It's all related.

[RCEnigma]

Fair point. But you see why I think scum is on my wagon when everyone on it is content to let the protective claim sit at L-1?

[RCEnigma]

I'm kind of banking on you being town here because I'm gonna need you to lead town.

[RCEnigma]

SS not gameplay.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah fair I didnt think about it. As you can tell I generally wing it so.

[RCEnigma]

Still it's why I was hinting at follow the cop.

[RCEnigma]

Ahhh fkk me I don't really want to Lynch drew now.

[RCEnigma]

It's probably just correspondence + gameplay.

[RCEnigma]

Hectic could have hammered, SS could have hammered (though it's not out of his scumrange to let it slide)

[RCEnigma]

Idk. I don't see why scum going down here wouldn't just CC me. It's not like my claim has people on my side.

[RCEnigma]

Idk. I don't see why scum going down here wouldn't just CC me. It's not like my claim has people on my side.

His CC wouldn't be believed because it's overdue, so the CC would be ineffective. The guilt trip is, quite obviously, very effective.

What does scum on the hotseat have to lose? Claim VT and die or claim protective and maybe die.

[RCEnigma]

Hectic could have hammered, SS could have hammered (though it's not out of his scumrange to let it slide)

I don't think that makes Hectic town

I don't think it makes him town in isolation either.

[RCEnigma]

Hmm... Is scum just two goons I wonder?

Why did you say this if your role is bodyguard?

Got paranoid about Pops for a second, the no X-shot comment would have made sense if scum had no abilities themselves or a full low utility role.

[RCEnigma]

Oh we have 5 hours. So I'm an X-shot bodyguard.

How many shots?

More than a few, less than some.

[RCEnigma]

Like, I don't really want to vote either of them. Whichever wagon needs my vote by deadline I'll vote but... I think both are kinda townie.

[RCEnigma]

Meh.

[RCEnigma]

Kill it with fire

It's like this bud. Pops is the towniest person today and led the wagon on me that filled up with everyone going "idk why he's scummy but he's pretty scummy." Except pops giving her reasoning but honestly her reasoning was hot garbage. But she's going to be leading town so I kind of have to give in at some point.

[RCEnigma]

RCE is really mad that we are going to lynch his scumpartner and then he won't be crowned AND he can't shoot at whoever is crowned without losing the game and he has to 1v7 against a series of PRs as a goon

Damn I thought claiming BG as goon so we can never kill the crown target was foolproof. Got me.

[RCEnigma]

Lol i'm never ever in forever crowning rce

Idc about being crowned, I've already got an ability.

Give me one reason pops threw out that wasn't trash.

[RCEnigma]

I'm being toxic. Rephrase that to one reason that was substantiated.

[RCEnigma]

Whatever VOTE: drew it's lose lose. If this flips town I was whiteknighting. If it's scum I'm scum.

[RCEnigma]

I don't think you're trash I just think you're tunneled for personal things.

[RCEnigma]

RCE it's win-lose, if it flips scum you'll get NK'ed by an NK targeting the crown I don't think refraining from shooting at the crown is a plausible line of play with 1 scum alive.

If it flips town IDK how I read it I'm still holding out hope you get shot and I don't have to read you

Why can't you be obvtown like in starcraft please.

I had rvs to get into my groove in StarCraft. It comes off gaudy when I rep in....always.

[RCEnigma]

Well what do you dislike about hectic?

[RCEnigma]

We're crowning pop.

[RCEnigma]

Over my dead body we're crowning gameplay before pop.

[RCEnigma]

I'm not sure how you replacing into this game rather than being here from the start has an impact

You replaced in early too

It doesn't feel the same to me. Rvs is my favorite part of the game.

[RCEnigma]

I would not crown pop.

Who would you crown if you flip town?

[RCEnigma]

I wouldn't mind crowning egduf tbh.

[RCEnigma]

I was. But pop was my preference.

[RCEnigma]

That's fine. I'll vote egduf if you flip town, pop if you flip scum.

[RCEnigma]

That's fine. I'll vote egduf if you flip town, pop if you flip scum.

My apologies for voting you haha.

Didn't want to no lynch.

Same.

[RCEnigma]

Dude hectic's claim is bonkers and rce is scummy af
What's going on

Scum are being strangled out via the claims.

[RCEnigma]

Meh, I have the potential to create false positives. I have to stick to a script to avoid this.

[RCEnigma]

I'm also sure the game isn't balanced around the BG being the first run up.

[RCEnigma]

I have to get acclimated with this game again. I remember thinking it would be nice to be on SS last night but I wouldn't have a way to convey that was my target post death so it would just be a wasted action.

A.) Scum still think they can get me lynched today
But
2.) The argument to be had there is that I'm scum so pops couldn't be killed without outing me. On the flip side I'm just BG and scum couldn't target there.

Hectic what is a seeking mason? Effectively a named townie? You two didn't share a pt right? You just know there's another seeking mason in the game. The same way VTs know there are other town in the game.

[RCEnigma]

I'd argue not to out the crown mechanic yet but that's pops call.

[RCEnigma]

Based on the level of power you got and not what you got specifically. Is it worth the risk of scum picking up something similar?

[RCEnigma]

I have more shots, all good.

[RCEnigma]

Im just wary that leaving scumpops alone with whatever she has gathered from the crown might turn out to be fatal down the line.
Also the whole RCE situation is veryy sketchy.

Pops dies tonight since I'm on Hectic so like... There isn't a reason for paranoia atm. I'm also assuming the power is usable the same night as receiving it.

[RCEnigma]

And scum rolestopper seems like a good fit for this setup.

How?

A roleblocker is too boring with the crown mechanic but a rolestopper can block some of the crown abilities

Umm this makes it seem like you're able to choose from multiple abilities?

[RCEnigma]

Well since Oversoul confirmed that crown powers are not random(at least I remember so?) Hectic probably isn't getting some amazing power but still it's what should be done.

The crown seems more like a supplemental thing at this point. Just having a confirmed townie around reduces the Poe.

[RCEnigma]

Now that you're likely the nk AND have a power can I just out your page 2 claim pops?

[RCEnigma]

I'm saying I think the scum might have a rolestopper, I don't think the scum have a roleblocker.

Oversoul was in Role Call Mafia I with me, that game had a similar mechanic in that a player could gain a power, and the scum would know which player gained the power. That setup had a rolestopper instead of a roleblocker because easily targeting the player with the power is boring and easy, but guessing who they would try to target is fun.

I don't know if this game's design was finished before he played Role Call Mafia but I think he'd use a good design principle like that.

It makes sense with the seeking masons as well.

[RCEnigma]

You know what

Oversoul's phrasing makes me think the power roles won't be X-shot.

I think there might be a lot of benefit to trying to secret groupthink 1 townread. Like don't do townreadslists, just do scumreadslists.
Scum have trouble actually townreading obvtown sometimes if you don't tell them.

The next day if that player's ability was weak or underwhelming they can claim and ask not to be given the crown again. If it is sufficiently awesome, they don't claim. Then we secret vote again, they can dodge NK again, they can do awesome thing again. It might shift to a different person if the scum NK one of the people who voted for that particular crown but we didn't lose anything then.

This only comes from a VT perspective. Especially if a rolestopper or strongman is in play. So being X-shot strongman would imply a protective is likely X-shot and same with rolestopper though not protective related per say.

[RCEnigma]

But I didn't want you to yell at me for outing you as VT. Feels bad.

[RCEnigma]

Is that post "page and a half in and I'm already hard townreading pops"?

Yeah, I was pretty sure you blatantly VT claimed when I made that post.

[RCEnigma]

To be fair it's easier for her to switch wagons then she only has to worry about 1 vote swinging to hammer compared to convince 2 slots to vote their scumreads counterwagon.

[RCEnigma]

Incidentally, I thought the crown vote was going to be pops vs Egduf, I would have voted for gameplay if I had known they would have been crowned with my vote (Due to alphabetical nonsense)

Likewise but end of day made it clear egduf wasn't going to get pushed through.

[RCEnigma]

I agree with pops here, I don't think she should claim. Pops is no way the 100% kill for mafia tonight, town!pop could easily be alive tomorrow if RC is scum or scum target me anyway and kill town!RC. And we don't want to give scum the opportunity to play around any ability she might have.

So scum RCE kills the person he's supposed to bodyguard and then what does he do?

He claims roleblocking/stopping shenanigans.

Think that gets me hung either way.

[RCEnigma]

I'd have to hard flip on pops mostly unprompted.

[RCEnigma]

Correspondence, that's a no brainer.

[RCEnigma]

Well you guys are going to have to really well me on egduf and if the argument is 1 on 1 off then don't bother.

[RCEnigma]

Dunn could be scum but he's more so just there. I don't have any meta with him so I guess my question is, is Dunn the type to let everyone else play the game around him as scum?

[RCEnigma]

I don't get Dunn's gameplay read. Don't know how Drew being mislynched spews gameplay and I hate that gameplay just ran with the reads.

That being said I don't think Dunn and correspondence share an alignment but honestly look at how hard it's been to get a wagon going on correspondence when, as someone put it earlier, that's just going for low hanging fruit.

[RCEnigma]

We have one mislynch right?

[RCEnigma]

Ok, so we are in an ok position I guess. I'd prefer getting scum out today but I'll compromise on Dunn. Hectic makes it to Mylo no matter what and unless scum kill me tonight he's guaranteed to make it to Lylo.

So I'm scum resolved or the game just ends and the townie between like, gameplay/egduf is what it comes down to.

[RCEnigma]

Correspondence hit L-2 once for like a page with two townies on the wagon. That's slowballing.

[RCEnigma]

I've been calling my preferred Lynch and witholding my vote all day, scum are either both on correspondence wagon or correspondence is scum with a partner not set up to bus them.

[RCEnigma]

And I don't buy gameplay + Dunn.

[RCEnigma]

The alternative is correspondence is town and scum don't think I'd quickhammer but it's not like anyone here knows me or my playstyle. Maybe pops a little but the one game we played I literally gambited her life away to catch scum.

[RCEnigma]

That would also imply the scumteam is like pops + egduf.

[RCEnigma]

Is he? Unlucky guy.

[RCEnigma]

I'm sorry I'm not following

Correspondence being on L-2 all day, scum just needs some B's reason to hop on the wagon and give me hammer. I've been saying I want to lynch correspondence since yesterday but haven't voted. My hammer my heat if it flips town. That's like strike 2 or whatever and probably let's scum chain mislynches if they push hard enough.

[RCEnigma]

Oh, no I'm saying correspondence was effectively but not in actuality.

[RCEnigma]

No, I think they're scum.

[RCEnigma]

I can't decide if it's scum off wagon and won't bus or scum on wagon and town hesitating...idk what for.

[RCEnigma]

I don't think there are any good reasons to call correspondence town at this point. It mostly seems like people just think other people are more scummy. Which is kind of my stance on Dunn.

[RCEnigma]

Well corre works with everyone, egduf included.

[RCEnigma]

Dunn + corre is least likely to me, I don't think they share an alignment.

[RCEnigma]

Hey no you are town(I WILL ELABORATE I PROMISE)
But I mean what you are saying makes perfect sense for a dunn/egduf team
Since egduf is on a "discredit all towny towns" mission switching that vote from me to corresp is going to be real bad for her.
PEDIT: Pls dont hammer?

Why would I hammer on someone that's not my scumread? Hectic is conftown.

[RCEnigma]

? I already know I'm town.

[RCEnigma]

You just don't want me to be.

[RCEnigma]

Idk, roleblocker makes sense but I'm assuming they have less shots than I do. Strongman is also still possible and scum was expecting me to wifom the protect on SS.

[RCEnigma]

Dear journal, Entry #121

Correspondence continues the "everyone but me" agenda. But only as long as everyone else approves. It seems like no one else is concerned.

Journal am I crazy? You can give it to me straight I can take it. Should I be worried that none of my peers are woke? What if they don't even Vape? I don't know how much longer I can hang in there before my madness becomes a reality. Or is it my reality becomes madness?

Wilson won't call me back either. Sad boy hours.

[RCEnigma]

As long as I have your word you push correspondence tomorrow if this flips town.

VOTE: Dunn L-1

[RCEnigma]

I mean it's between you and pops.

[RCEnigma]

Shhh.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah no.

[RCEnigma]

Emphatic no.

[RCEnigma]

I mean I would have liked to talk about it.

[RCEnigma]

Scum follower is pretty useless. They find out if the masons found each other that's about it.

[RCEnigma]

If the crown abilities have a target then maybe? But it could still be either way. Issue is it feels like too much town utility so ehh I guess this may flip scum.

[RCEnigma]

Misreading RCE was pretty bad admittedly sorry RCE

Yeah I don't know how bragworthy my reads are thinking back

like 3 IC slots

Bit much

Gives me easy mode

Me being misread and claiming and hectic claiming right after was like the perfect storm for town to win tbh so no worries.

[RCEnigma]

Oversoul is soft.

[RCEnigma]

What I failed to mention, but definitely noticed, was that the crown votes at the end seemed to be ordered in the same order that they were made. I'm not sure if that's the case or if it was just a coincidence, but you'll notice that I was the last person to vote for Pops - if I was town I would have absolutely pointed to that as mafia who was deciding where to vote in their pt vs town who knew what they were picking going into twilight. I'm not certain if it was clear that this information would have been public or not, or if it's just extra stuff that was added. It does mention that the vote result would be revealed so... I guess it was implied, though some additional clarity in the rules would have been nice. Actually, it shouldn't be showing that information at all in my opinion, but as long as it's clear what is happening the specifics don't matter as much. Nobody else seems to have caught onto that this game, but it is the kind of thing that mods really need to be keeping in mind instead of kind of just doing things.
With that said, there were townies who didn't even realize that the crown vote was made public, or who didn't think it mattered (which is bad play and should contribute to your faction losing IMO).

This feels like a scum observation that town can't really base anything on. Like sure I get what you're saying but we can't know if it's randomized or not and that uncertainty makes it weak to begin with. I guess it depends how allegations are responded to but that's another thing.