Micro 885: Crown on the Ground (Game Over)

[Egduf]

VOTE: Correspondence
I can use whichever fork I want for salad, and I don't think it's your place to correct me. Only the King can tell me how to eat salad.

[Egduf]

It should be self explanatory why, but Gameplay now has my full full unconditional trust.

Early crown tactics: We don't openly declare who we're voting for? Don't want scum to know for sure who gets the crown, and give them information for picking NKs and roleblocking/playing around potential abilities. We can claim who we voted for at the start of the next day though.

Hectic is right here. Claiming who we voted for also potentially stops mafia from voting for themselves every night, on the condition that everyone claims who they voted for before the person that wins the crown reveals.

[Egduf]

I’m assuming we can’t vote for ourselves, I meant just voting for other mafia.

[Egduf]

No, I don't know how to convince people to give me something that would benefit me regardless of my alignment and do so in a way that is alignment indicative. If I'm going to post about something that's not an inherently town indicative topic I may as well post about why Advance Wars is a dead series or why I am obsessed with eating eggs lately and other bizarre stuff I've posted d1 to try to townspew before, without being boxed in or railed by someone who might not even share my alignment.

If it's NAI why are you scum reading him for it? I'm genuinely not seeing the logic here, it feels to me like you're just being overly nitpicky about a jokey RVS post.

I think there might be a lot of benefit to trying to secret groupthink 1 townread. Like don't do townreadslists, just do scumreadslists.
Scum have trouble actually townreading obvtown sometimes if you don't tell them.

The next day if that player's ability was weak or underwhelming they can claim and ask not to be given the crown again. If it is sufficiently awesome, they don't claim. Then we secret vote again, they can dodge NK again, they can do awesome thing again. It might shift to a different person if the scum NK one of the people who voted for that particular crown but we didn't lose anything then.

Strongly dissagree here. Not giving reads will make it far easier for the mafia to not only blend in but hide their scum partners. If you're that worried about the mafia guessing who gets the crown and killing them, just vote for your second biggest town read instead of the first.

Also true. An alternative approach is giving townreads, but not ordering them so we don't show who we're likely to give the crown to. Catching scum out for bad townreads and fabricating reasons is a big part of the game.

This is an ok compromise.

Lil Uzi Vert, do you not think the crown talk has been productive?

VOTE: popsofctown

[Egduf]

Correspondence is going to be incredibly hard to read if they only interact with each other, the only thing I’ve really seen in their letters so far is that they don’t trust Hectic, but it’s just his play style to jump between things.
I’m going to be busy for the next three days, I will still be able to check the forum and post but I won’t be as active as normal.

[Egduf]

Post 74 reeks. Very disingenuous reaction to a self-imposed post restriction. No actual town frustration with having an "unreadable" slot, or policy Lynch stance, or constructive words of any kind, just "don't lynch me when I refuse to play 12.5% of my mafia this game, thanks in advance".

How am I implying this at all? I’m not going to refuse to read Correspondence, I just think it’s going to be difficult and that’s what I said.
The lack of actual “Town frustration” is because I’m not that mad about it. I didn’t need to post an angry rant to get my point across.

[Egduf]

Of course you are disappointed the self-imposed post restriction is going to make Correspondence harder to read, Hectic. So is literally everyone except the mafia, Correspondence, and Oversoul. It doesn't need to be said. So it strikes me IIoAish. If she was more heavily frustrated then it'd make sense that she'd post it for a different reason, but she seems about as forgiving about it as I am so it's out of place.

Sure, I really just wasn't overthinking everything I post. Here is my thoughts on the game so far though if that helps.

Hectic - Maybe Town

He's playing how he normally plays as town. I'm getting good vibes from his posts, he's asking a lot of questions and scum hunting.

gameplay506 - Slightly Town

I've only played with gameplay once before, but this seems consistant with his playstyle there so far. More good vibes.

Dunnstral, X Maya, Doctor Drew - Null

They've not posted enough so far for me to get a proper read on them either way. I don't know what to think about Dunnstal vs Popsofctown, could one of you link to the game you're referencing?

Correspondence - Null

Hard to read for reasons previously mentioned. I don't like their reads so far though.

Lil Uzi Vert - VERY Slightly Mafia

I don't like their first post. I don't properly scum read them yet due to the lack of posts, but if Doctor Drew is right and the mafia are trying to lurk then he would be my first guess.

popsofctown - Slightly Mafia

They seem overly agressive, and willing to jump on any reason to scum read people. Someone mentioned this could just be a difference in playstyle, but in my (small) expiriance people who play like this are normally scum. I think the suggestion of not giving any reads this game was also unnessisary and likely to be scum trying to hide.

[Egduf]

We give he crown to a town read, definitely.
I looked at Dunnstral’s entrance in the game pops linked, but she Town reads him now anyway. I agree with Dunnstral though in that the circumstances of his entrance there were different.

[Egduf]

Hectic ALWAYS does this. Day one, he’ll say something deliberately weird to see how people react. In the Purge it was this, in the Newbie game with Gameplay he claimed Town Roleblocker. I can see him posting this as Town, and although he gets pushed for it almost every time, as far as I know it’s never a actually got him lynched.

[Egduf]

Unfortunately that's not something you can be over (I get what pops is saying now)—if you consider that it's a hydra then that's not scummy for them, so voting them amounts to a sort of policy vote. Or am I wrong?

But the inconsistency isn’t between hydra heads, it’s within one post from Henrietta.

I begin to suspect we were wrong with regard to Mr. Hectic. While he is certainly erratic and strange, the rush to condemnation seems overly hasty. I suspect that if he were part of some nefarious enterprise, his partner would rather protect him, and conversely the real criminals would be all too eager to use him as a scapegoat. Therefore, I believe he is guilty of little more than being a young man, prone to the eccentricities of callow youths and little more.

My greatest concern continues to be Miss Egduf. While I consider her most likely in league with Mister Drew, she continues to be suspicious of her own accord.

Fondest regards,
Henrietta

[Egduf]

Also, as far as I am aware, Correspondence has never explained their read on me despite mentioning it in multiple posts and being asked directly by Hectic.

[Egduf]

Playing IRL mafia frequently is weird/rare. It may still be somewhat widely played in Russia but in all other areas it's used as a party game (and parties theoretically don't occur "a lot") and in board gaming groups it's not preferred against the other made up social deduction games like Coup and Resistance.

I meet with a group that play 3 times a week for a few hours, specifically for social deduction games rather than board games. My comment about having a small amount of expirance is in regards to forum mafia.

Egduf's position is that she demands equal treatment to Hectic, even though Hectic's interacted with far more of the thread without garnering any kind of White Knight or even much of an apparent smoke screener, and that that is scummy

I don't think it's an inconsistency. And even if it is an inconsistency I think it requires a specific configuration of flips to be a scummy one.

You're doing quite a lot of extrapolating there to get to that. I said correspondance hadn't explained their read even when asked. It has nothing to do with Hectic. Of course I don't expect people's reads to be the same on me and him, we're different people.

I thought it was over multiple posts?

Henrietta said Hectic's scum partner hadn't defended him if he has one, and that I was a scumread.

Gameplay, can you explain why the votes on Corespondence are scummy?

I like Aa so far.

I'm not seeing what everyone else is seeing in Doctor Drew's ISO. He's been really vague, but that looks more to me like someone who isn't following the game particularly closely than scum.

[Egduf]

Egdof:

Why do you still scumread pops? Who do you have in mind when you're thinking of aggressive players being more likely to be mafia? That didn't seem like the case at all in the past two games we played on this site. And neither for the last one we played off-site either. Any other reasons you're scumreading her?

This is 100% not true. In our first off site game Jackoclypse was the most aggressive and mafia. In the second game Panda was the most aggressive and TP. At the moment it feels like Pops is quoting many of my posts, twisting it into the least charitable interpretation possible, and using it to scum read me. Exactly the same as Panda. I will admit my read on her softened a little bit when I read the game she linked with Dunnstral, but it’s very hard to give someone a town read when they’re against me for bad reasons.
I disagree with many of Pop’s reads, her biggest scum read Dr Drew for example. I haven’t played with him before though, so maybe his tone really is different.
Her suggestions of not talking about reads seems anti Town and a great way for scum to hide. Her suggestion of giving the crown to a scum read is a great way preemptively justify voting for a partner when votes are revealed.

We should start agreeing on a few wagons and do those.

I could compromise with a Correspondence lynch.
VOTE: Correspondance

[Egduf]

Oh, you have a point there, Egduf. I wasn't considering the Leader game with Jack, and I don't know how I managed to forget about Panda last game, probably because he was TP over mafia. Pops' aggression has been productive though. Panda was zoning in on you because he was a lyncher, so I think the two cases are very different.

While I find it hard to believe you forgot about both cases, I don't see why you would admit it like this as mafia so I guess it was a genuine mistake. You also have a point about Pops being more productive.

[Egduf]

Gameplay, at the end of the last day I think I remember you saying that you didn’t trust Hectic’s claim. This seems pretty scummy to me. He had good evidence for it, and it seemed clear that Aa was the same role. If you were going to distrust one of the claims RCE’s was the most suspicious because no one else could confirm it. (If I’ve remembered this as the wrong person I’m sorry)
I also don’t agree with your point that Hectic is playing differently from last game. He was essentially playing a character early on, but his later posts were very similar to what he’s done in this game.
You would be my preferred lynch today.
VOTE: Gameplay

[Egduf]

After looking back it was you Dunnstral and Pops who thought the claims were shady.
Dunnstral said that before Hectic had explained himself and revealed Aa as his partner, so there’s not really much reason to scum read him there.
Pops just said that one of the claims was scummy, not Hectic’s in particular. She even specified that RCE’s was the most suspect out of all of them, and I have a slight scum read on her anyway for other reasons.
Yes that is my reasoning. I think all your behaviour at the end of the last day was a bit suspicious.

[Egduf]

^ This is directed at Gameplay

[Egduf]

Gameplay, that’s true but I don’t see why you being a naturally suspicious player excuses you from scummy behaviour, and it’s not like you couldn’t have backed off of the vote at that time.
I have mixed feelings about Pops claiming the exact crown power. Even if the mafia don’t have have a roleblocker/stopper it could still give them information to play around.
On the other hand, not claiming seems like a really easy way for scum to get out of having to claim anything potentially confirmable about the crown, and gives town less information about the abilities they are voting to crown people with.
I could probably be persuaded either way.

[Egduf]

I agree with Hectic here, RCE has to be Town at this point.
I don’t think it makes sense for me and correspondence to be a scum team. Speaking of correspondence, I’m still not a fan of them, and really didn’t like their recent reads list.
I know I haven’t really been keeping up with the game properly recently, sorry about that.