Newbie 1951 (Day 4)

[Selynee]

Annoyingly hot.

VOTE: Farkran

[Selynee]

Why do you think I'm targeting you? What do you think of Menalque vote?

[Selynee]

With no investigations available so far, and not knowing any player from previous games, i'd say both votes are for the sake of information fishing. It's ok, but i'd rather hear some reasoning first. I am personally voting you for picking me, i could have voted Menalque for randomly voting a different player, but you have chosen me.

You win but in this situation what sort of reasoning would you have preferred before a vote?

[Selynee]

You win

but in this situation what sort of reasoning would you have preferred before a vote?

What does this mean?[/quote]

Less boring way of saying "you are correct"

[Selynee]

L-1?

VOTE: Farkran

Last words?

[Selynee]

Nah, not against the rules. Also, if there was a real hammer against town page 6, person would be lynched 90% of the time D2. Not such a great deal for mafia.

Why is Notspam town?

[Selynee]

I'd like to ask Selynee what they were trying to do with their fake hammer.

Get an answer from them that would help deciding town or mafia. Didn't go so well.

NMSA's reaction test was interesting (because I didn't know it was a reaction test till they mentioned it) and given that they weren't under any pressure for the read- most probably real.

[Selynee]

I guess more obvious and a more well, dramatic result given that they could talk with their partner.

[Selynee]

You are trying to give reads on people based on potential teams which is not very helpful right now given that mafia we don't have any confirmed mafia and they could be on sring each other just as well as defending each other. A bit like planning what you are going to do with a promotion when you are called in your boss's office.

Menalque- doesn't seem trollish. What exact analysis did you like?

Sushi- trying not to end the day too soon can come from both town or more cautious mafia.

Teacher- What exactly you mean by analytic.

[Selynee]

It wasn't about hiding your thoughts or not making people talk, it was about analysing each people individually being more productive at least till we have a confirm mafia.

Anyway.

Menalque- I agree, 181 brings a good point. 336 is plausible but don't see it as a read that could only come from town.

Tone? Tbh, I've read it more like somewhat sarcastic and assertive than passionate but not an expert of reading it even IRL.

[Selynee]

Epic, what happened between 309 and 346? Talking about your read on emps? Like walk us on what exactly you didn't like in emps's responses and what makes you still think they are town?

[Selynee]

Why decided on doing a reaction test on emps (as opposed to another player)? Also, the argument between Farkran and emps was already happening at that time...how was their reaction to your vote town as opposed to mafia?

[Selynee]

Actually, not sure teacher is town. More of a townlean. So far: your V/LA debate wasn't that informative, especially since you might have a different idea of what the term means. Game-related explanations- this is true but might be play style.I find their read on sushi to be...plausible. Has NMSA as town- I agree here with the fact that the reaction test most likely comes from town). I think their trajectory on Menelque actually makes sense reading it from the beginning of the game.

[Selynee]

@Farkran- Not rushing to hammer D1 is very possible- maybe mafia are just more cautious or don't trust themselves for one of them to be in the spotlight D2 and so on.
To be fair, you actually didn't say you have a scum read on Menalque or explain it till now.

I don't see much of a defence there...their scumreads at this point are basically based on an assumption on the bandwagons. And Emps on tunnelling (if still actual). Also, they never actually explained the strange scumread on NMSA at that point. You are right about forgetting about you.

How do you read the townlean on Skitter while also saying they wouldn't push her as scum D1?


@SushiMartyr can detail your read on emps (after catching-up)

[Selynee]

Also, they never actually explained the strange scumread on NMSA at that point

wait, who is "they" referring to?

Used gender-neutral pronouns. Not the best in this case, sorry.

@Farkran: Quick clarification thing, when you say someone's moving down in your suspects list, does that mean you find them more or less suspicious than you did before?

doubt that fark/sushi is a scumteam tho

Interesting. Think I agree with this.


Don't know why both of you call it "lynch for information" when you gave reasons to scumread them. Even if not your first choice.


Farkran, do you have a read on NMSA?

[Selynee]

EC, what is your opinion about teacher's answer to your question?

[Selynee]

Menalque.

[Selynee]

Don't exactly expect a readlist.

Emps- pretty locked up on you. Not something I think most scum would be doing for so long D1. Also, his reads on EC and sushimartyr (partially till now) seem genuine. Townlead-townread.

NMSA- Already said plus I feel like him giving town reads wouldn't be so great for mafia later in game.



Sushi Martyr- 182 and 216 fair questions, 498 seems an in-depth read on Menalque, 220 was actually ehmm....not sure how they'd read me based on this, "I'd like a chance to do that before you condemn me though" (450) seems to me way too polite more like fear of being scumread, reads are....plausible, but tbh, not a huge fan of announcing you are basing your read on someone else's meta. Scumlean


Menalque- 181 has a good point, not a fan of scum reading NMSA there (or in 606, not sure how EC is comparable to Fark even if you consider both scummy plus NMSA gave a townread on Fark), not going to read much into changing reads because in general people who give reads very early in the game tend to change them almost entirely somewhere along the line but not much interest in Farkran after giving intent (whatever it was for creating discussions or not).

EpicCreeper- I mean the reads on Farkran and emps were based on "talk and asking question is good" which is pretty generic stuff, I agree the reaction test could have been just them deciding to back out of a scumread on Emps. No clue what his partner would be doing.

Farkran- First reads seem forced to me. Not in the way that you've changed them, but mostly that I couldn't understand them. My fakehammer- guess I'll have to believe it is game play difference...Some of the reasons for your early reads as I said, I either don't understand or don't agree with: being careful with votes, intend and so on. Your reaction being to L-1 and so has been pretty...unafraid to be lynched though and you scum read the person defending you- makes me think it was a genuine read. Menalque, as I said, you do have a point there that he gave intent and then sort of ignored it, but I find the trajectory 50 to 0 strange. Gun to my head, I'd say town for lynched-related behaviour (mostly)

Skitter- Interesting thoughts on town!Farkran- the progression of the read seems real (though I'd say the vote itself wasn't half-bad in this situation). Most questions were on point and advanced the discussion.

So, calculating the score:

VOTE: EpicCreeper

[Selynee]

Pretty much tired and decided my last read on you is accurate, regardless of your change in vote.

[Selynee]

Basically 519, a bit more in-death. No promise will be understandable.

As I said, I found their read on sushi plausible coming from town. Not that I agree with it. First, the greeting point- seems at least some people believe it and he thinks sushi might have deliberately used it to "evaluate the board".Possible this is genuine. Did agree with Sushi early in the game about you, so, that would be accurate. Same for thinking those questions are game-solving (though I gave my opinion on 220.

Trajectory on Menaloque also made sense (I mean, 223, 358, 417).

Later read: possibly genuine he'd consider Farkan's vote on Menaloque as coming from scum given the PR speculation (even though he said he doesn't actually think Menaloque is PR there).

[Selynee]

Sorry, not so sure in my abilities to start analysing pairs so early. I'll say I don't think Menalque is scum with EC based on the fact he was the first to start scumreading his first post- don't really think this would happen if you see your mafia team is so new.

Not seeing a teacher/Menalque team here. Teacher scumread and voted Menalque for a long time, and while I have no idea how good of a player is Menalque he wasn't that engaged in this game for most of it. Would be a way too high risk to get his partner killed day 1.

[Selynee]

Sushi Martyr- 182 and 216 fair questions, 498 seems an in-depth read on Menalque, 220 was actually ehmm....not sure how they'd read me based on this, "I'd like a chance to do that before you condemn me though" (450) seems to me way too polite more like fear of being scumread, reads are....plausible, but tbh, not a huge fan of announcing you are basing your read on someone else's meta. Scumlean

i'm not entirely following why this is a scumlean

450- As I said, it could be mafia deciding to play safely there. It's not that she'd want to clarify her position regarding Farkran, but the "before you condemn me though"
Basically partially placing a read on someone else. And, yes, I know that a lot of players do it at some point, but I feel like when you are saying "I say X is town/scum partially because I trust Y" it is a pretty easy way out both of explaining it and if you are wrong. Actually played with someone who did just that with pretty great success.
220- What I said, but was a cool theoretical question.

sorry, where did this happen ?

181

[Selynee]

Why would I make it clear that the intent wasn’t serious? I wanted to see if anyone hopped off the wagon bc they were worried about a green flip

I think that’s less likely from you/teacher as a reason to hop off but still possible

I mean, it makes sense in theory if you believe whomever is pushed is town, but while you didn't ask for a claim, it was asked.

[Selynee]

I looked back over emps' push on Fark; I think it comes from town. The tone is right and the things he points out are mostly reasonable things to point out.

The way skitter keeps defending Fark largely on the basis of him coming from a different site and being used to a different style of play, etc., gives me bad vibes.

I'm still kind of leaning town on teacher, I think? His reasoning is easier to follow than Fark's at any rate, but part of me is a little uncertain whether scum!teacher would use this argument to his advantage, knowing he'd be more capable of expressing himself reasonably.

Umm....I mean I agree with read on emps, though I wouldn't look only on Fark, but reads on others as well. If Fark town- there would be pretty easy to appear more reasonable (PS: I mean language differences and maybe gamestyle )

The same for teacher.

[Selynee]

wait why sely? is creeper/mena just not a thing?

Doubt it, Menalque was the first one to scumread the first post EC made. Doubt he would have made it if he knew his partner was so new.

[Selynee]

[quote="I

Agreed, almost best possible answer from town!skit. Still scares me but analysis is top quality.

[/quote]

Yeah, top quality. Actually, care to walk me through it? Cuz I've seen skitter's reasons, though I obviously disagree with me-scum, but not from you.

[Selynee]

Farkran, don't forget to explain- why is Menalque scum if EC is town when you last had him as town, why I am scum with EC here and when did you formed this view given that you've considered me as potential scum partner with teacher and at least someone else but as far as I remember never said anything about me-EC. Thx.

[Selynee]

Yes, you are assuming there is no possibility of a no-scum on a town lynch. Which totally could be the case especially if you have a slot like EC. Also, a strong mafia player could vote their partner if it is obvious they are going to be lynched (or maybe if they are a liability).

Also, I assume top-quality means you either agree with them or that they provided some great reasons there. She scumread me (partially, I think) on an interaction with EC. Who do you think she would pair scum!EC with as either alignment? Some random slot?

[Selynee]

That is, before mena jumped off it. Now we'd all target mena i guess.

Nah, the logical way here is to look at me if you believe the whole "bad associations" as well as mena and others if EC flips scum. Voting because you feel like you can save your scum partner is a thing. Problem is you never mentioned said associations.

Because they havent been much of a presence in the game but have been on almost all the wagons except Menalque - where she certainly wasnt pushing against. Like lowkey flexing them through. Mostly because Id want to see them react to pressure.

Makes sense though I don't exactly see why I could have had a TR on Menalque.

[Selynee]

@Teacher

I didn't have a TR on Menalque. I was answering Farkran and agreed with at least a post that I thought was trying to sort us, and some reads they brought that I said were kind of....well, could have come from either mafia or town. I had doubts on the NMSA read. The intend things I've read in two ways- town seriously trying to lynch a scumread (yeah, thought he was serious even if discussions would obviously be part of it) or mafia trying to get a claim.

I have a tendency to believe someone acting like they don't care to defend themselves or saying they'd do the same if they were X that they are actually telling the truth (IRL but guess in game as well). Still this is not objectively true.

So, yeah, I didn't really find enough reasons to try to push against against it.

[Selynee]

Great. See no setup with both masons and tracker.

[Selynee]

Ahh, lol at NMSA's reaction testing not actually being a reaction testing

[Selynee]

Don't know. To be honest, I've expected scum to try to use "the busywork question" here (which I've felt was misunderstood) as the more easy narrative to push.

[Selynee]

Hey, Manalque, why exactly did you unvote there?

[Selynee]

Yes

[Selynee]

Is 791 something you can talk about now or still off-limits?

[Selynee]

Why on Earth you did this? I know you strongly believe teacher is last mafia here but you just closed the day.

[Selynee]

Think it was a mistake to self-hammer here. But anyway, see you in post game.

[Selynee]

Hey, that's not very nice. I am horrible of this game but I'd have at least told EC not to claim that was a reaction test out of all people on his townlean. Or at least I wouldn't ask about it.

[Selynee]

So you think it’s almost certainly the very experienced players (me, skit, emps) not the ones with total lack (Selene, sushi) that lent creeper limp on like he did all game?

That’s my issue. I have a TR on sushi. I’ve accepted that I’m the mislynch for tomorrow when you will eat crow. I’m trying to help town for D4 in picking btw emps, skit, and selynee. I think I would encourage them to go seleynee. Either live with that advise or convince me why I’m wrong.

Like I can understand me- inactive, EC does badly. Plus me-mafia would have been even worse. But, pride- I am not that stupid to start asking my partner to detail his pretty obvious fake reaction test...or let him claim reaction test there if I could stop him.

[Selynee]

Both teacher and skitter were pretty reluctant on EC wagon. Which is quite understandable, but makes me wonder if one of them was subtly pushing someone else. Teacher would be me, skitter would be Menalque. So, questions (whenever you see them, today or tomorrow): teacher, when did you started to SR me and skitter: why vote Mena today over me given that you said the whole thing about going to me if EC is scum?

Sushi- no experience with her so...I hope she shows up.

Also, Mena's plan will probably end with me in lylo and I think I will be the easiest mislynch ever. So, I think we should avoid this at all costs.

[Selynee]

When you do, take into consideration with EC, there was talk of info-lynching him. I mean I wasn't obviously opposed to it, but we actually had very few information if he flipped town. Also, he had just written that he doesn't know how to analyse so I've thought asking for a readlist would have been indeed the definition of asking stuff just to be asked. Decided to ask for at least a concrete read on a question he's asked. Granted, could have been more specific and asked "you think teacher's answer come from town or mafia?".

Also, I know you didn't give a SR on skitter, second part was for skitter.

[Selynee]

Also, pretty much no one outside Mena had a SR on skitter. Cuz her questions and answers were reasonable and did advance the discussion. Well, outside the SR on me because I expected to follow up with them, but might be play style. Also, to look at me more likely than Mena D2. But you know, should finish this today and she should try to give me lynched today if she still think I am mafia cuz it is the last mislynch town affords.

[Selynee]

i thought mena was kinda scummy (between his ate end of day freakout and him leaving the epic wagon at l-1)
and overnight night1 i was kinda rethinking my scumread of you - you were the first vote on epic, i'm not sure that scum!you hops on that early or stays on as the wagon builds; not sure it's really beneficial for scum!you to bus that way

OK, though I don't get why you'd see the leaving at L-1 so damning (not only you).

I think NMSA voted first there.

What you think about teacher?

[Selynee]

I find 417 and the going back to check if Mena was on the wagon pretty difficult to fake, especially since he could have not written 358 and just say the equivalent of "D1 reads- not very sure of anything". Same for defending Mena after Fark voted him. Granted just like you, somewhat wanted someone else outside EC. And that he didn't really consider that not wanting to give a scum read on you is not necessarily mafia given that at that moment he became convinced teacher is last mafia. But think my first points outweigh the second ones.

If I'm wrong- well, guess Mana will have at whom to be angry postgame.

[Selynee]

Why emps?

[Selynee]

Well, sushi would make sense as EC's partner but the fact is they haven't posted anything and we still had NK's.

[Selynee]

ehhh actually a pretty similar progression on epic imo

Thing is if emps was going to encourage votes on his partner so early and he'd know the PR claim (assuming they discussed at least this) would more probably be CC'ed, I think he'd at least want to be on him when that happens...voting for Mena there doesn't make much sense. Unless EC really butchered the plan (as in not paying attention to where we were and how many votes there were).

[Selynee]

However you want. Though I think a page or two in this game wouldn't be a problem.

[Selynee]

Don't really see any benefit from scum!teacher to pretend he doesn't know Mena was town after the self-vote and continue that whole conversation. Think it would have been easier to say "sorry, my bad I was really wrong" and bring up that he wasn't the only person who wanted him lynched.

Also, once the whole Fark being killed first to frame teacher was aired, it sort of became too confused to try to read (IMO).

[Selynee]

I think emps's interaction with EC doesn't make much sense for them as partners. Went pretty strong on him, encouraged people to vote him but in the end he wasn't on his wagon (he gave intend and later voted Mena). As I said, not making much sense to me: if he wanted to throw his partner under the bus, I think he'd want to get maximum advantage from it and be on him.

Granted, I can see the case where he was just trying to disperse the wagon on EC after Mena unvoted, EC came in and didn't paid attention to the fact he didn't have intent yet and claimed. But eh, I feel that assumes he didn't talk with emps as partner about when to claim and to give him time to be in the "best position" regarding him (considering emps-mafia would knew that the PR claim would most likely be CC'ed, he made the probability calculus himself). Think there are too many assumptions here.

[Selynee]

a) i don't understand your read on emps rn or where you're getting the 'i'm supposed to be townreading emps' / 'emps is an angel or whatever so okay' bit from

Eh, felt like the reason was pretty clear there though I am not a huge fan.

Emps's case- I wasn't a great fan though I guess I could see where she'd come from. I think it sort of missed Emps tended to make pretty quick reads and be somewhat hard on fallowing them. So, those posts weren't that different on how he treated the read on mena and sushi himself. Like, 814 didn't bother me in this context, though it would if it would have been made by other players.

But I doubt mafia!pops talks so much about LYLO and spends so much time on it. No interest here.

Other than that, not sure. Better ideas when my IQ miraculously increases.

[Selynee]

There's plenty of back to basics reasons to want to lynch teacher, including, the level 0 wifom VCA on day 2 giving him basically all culpability for Menalque's death. There's reason to hesitate too.

I kind of want to switch from teacher townbloc to skitter townbloc over the lack of continuity in his read progression and also his insistence EC had coaching in the PT and how firmly he seems able to hold the belief. It gets to the point I want to be paranoid he's just scumslipping on my face and marries that stance because he actually heavily interacted with EC in the scum PT, and EC just said, "I want to post in this particular way anyway", so like, when I try to engage him in some kind of debate about speculating on to what extent there was interaction he doesn't want to engage because it's like engaging Neil Armstrong about whether the moonlanding really happened for his side.

I do still like some of my post1 arguments about skitter!scum but I think I should flip. I really doubt I survive enough days that this is something other me/emps/sel guessing correctly between skitter or teacher and winning or losing off of that aside from minor side dish possibility emps or selynee is deepwolf (which is increasingly unlikely the way they've been vote holstering)

pedit: there's some time in the morning to review a bit and think
I'll be around near hammer to avert no-lynch but I have a VOTE: teacher preference as a course for the game right now.

Nope. Yes, they did get into a 1 vs 1 but Fark and NMSA were convinced Mena was the right lynch since he came off the wagon, emps and skitter blank voted D2, then Mena voted himself. Don't really see how you see this as only teacher's culpability here.
Also, the whole speculating on how much EC talked in the scum PT isn't that helpful (or I suppose hard to fake as mafia): EC isn't coming to confirm till the end of the game.
Don't get the 180 degrees read change based on this reasons.
VOTE: popsofctown

[Selynee]

Hey! GG everyone. Congratz, pops and emps- nicely played here.

[Selynee]

Yeah, tbh no idea what I'd have done in lylo. Also, the reason I didn't give much of a read on you is because I didn't know how to read you. I mean I did found your points reasonable ( didn't see anything on your progression on Farkran till Pops brought it...) but there were a few small things disturbing a clear read on you. On the other hand, small stuff that I do find it suspicious but not even I am sure are not simply me reading too much into something or your play style wasn't much of a read. So, I just sort of avoided given a clear answer.