Newbie 1951 (Day 4)

[Menalque]

Far too bright for my hangover

VOTE: skitt

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No, my vote is bc skitt is conf!scum actually

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I forgot about her VLA tbf

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With no investigations available so far, and not knowing any player from previous games, i'd say both votes are for the sake of information fishing. It's ok, but i'd rather hear some reasoning first. I am personally voting you for picking me, i could have voted Menalque for randomly voting a different player, but you have chosen me.

You win

but in this situation what sort of reasoning would you have preferred before a vote?

What does this mean?

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I don’t get a welcome? Rude

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VOTE: NMSA

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Kinda

I was scum in surprise (in a hydra) where we killed you N1

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So “played” not so much, but been in a game together yes

Also hello

Also I’m p sure this is only the second game with the new newbie st up so none of us have experience with it yet

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I’d lean farkran town too

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I also like the addition of the masons mostly bc that’s the role I’ve most wanted to play but haven’t yet

Selynee could you pls use the quote feature on people’s posts to make it easier to see who you’re replying to?

Hi sushi. Are you scum this game?

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I also like the addition of the masons mostly bc that’s the role I’ve most wanted to play but haven’t yet

Selynee could you pls use the quote feature on people’s posts to make it easier to see who you’re replying to?

Hi sushi. Are you scum this game?

Nope. Are you?

Nope

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That’s a mean thing to say farkran, I never troll

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Sup emps

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Hey teacher, you’re like 1/2 on reading me so far, do you think you’ll have a better or worse percentage after this game?

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Briefly thought I’d end up being top poster in this game

Then saw emps was playing

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Discussing jumping questions for the board. All slots kindly answer.

1. What is your experience at Mafia
2. How do you play as town
3. How do you play as scum
4. What do you think gives away a player as scum or tow
5. Time zone/utc/typical posting hours

not that hard

also rqs bad i kinda used it in my scum game to find blue roles lol (i overanalyzed the shit out of them and missed the simplest fucking jk crumb)

oh i kept the all slots kindly answer at the top. that explains a lot

1. 4 completed games, only won 1 tho...
2. i spam a lot, get utred/townblocked d1 then get bullied d2
3. i spam a lot, get utred/townblocked d1 then get bullied d2 (main diff is actually tone i think)
4. idk im bad only time i did something productive was a mechsolve turning the game from d3 win to d6 win and all that.

i actually have like trash reads

5. utc-7, i can manage mornings and evenings.

You read me as scum correctly our first game together

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Tbf, that was legit, if you look at Pokemon Ruby you can see scum!me when I have time. But I was playing weird that game so also prob not a good guide to my scum play.

Sorry emps, bad phrasing. I meant that I’d forgotten how spammy you are

God, I am fuckin hyped for this game

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I dig it a little less now (wasn’t a fan of the readslist), but mostly bc of 12? That seemed like a really weird sheep to make, bc it’s obvious to anyone that I couldn’t have a conf!scum on skitt and I don’t really see the scum motivation for drawing attention to yourself through pretending to believe an obvious joke

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how do you forget how spammy i am

thats like my defining trait/characteristic

My defining memory of you is the fear that you were gonna torpedo the nice, fertile lil scum plan we had

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Basically I thought that farkran’s entrance was too scummy to be scum, and I don’t think that scum!him would prob be that confident to go for that strat in their first newbie

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Discussing jumping questions for the board. All slots kindly answer.

1. What is your experience at Mafia
2. How do you play as town
3. How do you play as scum
4. What do you think gives away a player as scum or tow
5. Time zone/utc/typical posting hours

not that hard

also rqs bad i kinda used it in my scum game to find blue roles lol (i overanalyzed the shit out of them and missed the simplest fucking jk crumb)

1. Played forum mafia elsewhere a long time ago, died n1 majority of the times because i talk too much
2. i talk too much
3. i talk too much
4. just posted about it a few seconds ago
5. CEST, mostly available all day

wow i feel you getting n1ed for talking too much sucks

ive never been n1ed but ive gotten close enough

menalque why couldt you have killed sushi or smth instead of me i just repped into 1938 then i die smh

Cause I thought I had a better chance of getting sushi to lynch MJL in lylo than I had of convincing you to do it

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And in the case of wanting to flip the lynch I also thought I had better odds of getting sushi lynched than you bc we thought you’d be almost conf!town by then due to some sort of nate dogg associationals, but I can’t remember what exactly

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hey menalque trust me you can make really fucking stupid descisions on who you bring to lylo as scum

i speak from experience

Whats this referencing?

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well basically peeps NLed in mylo

there was person a, hard tring b and sring me. and person b, hard tring a and sring me, and person c, deciding between person b and i.

guess who i killed

person c like the fucking legend i am

then i lost

Who do you think I’d kill there?

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I dig it a little less now (wasn’t a fan of the readslist), but mostly bc of 12? That seemed like a really weird sheep to make, bc it’s obvious to anyone that I couldn’t have a conf!scum on skitt and I don’t really see the scum motivation for drawing attention to yourself through pretending to believe an obvious joke

That's why you should be careful of obv jokes

What do you mean?

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Ehh, emps can be town

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Choo choo

VOTE: farkran

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thats L-2

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Hey emps do you wanna put farkran at L-1?

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Why does that matter?

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Oh, I see you

Saving it for that juicy, juicy hammer are you

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Everyone has checked in tho

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I always read your walls, sushi

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That was present tense not past tense

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You’re welcome

I think do you

Some people wall, some people mix between that and responding to lots of individual posts, some both, some neither

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As in “you do you”

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Lmao

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Is page 6 hammer a record?

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Sushi

Why you do this

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I know it was a fakehammer, I was going with it

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I'm kinda thinking exactly 1 scum in (farkran, emps)

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I kind of like Fark's recent posting, even if I am 50% mafia 50% town troll according to their reads post.

what do you like about it? bc I am on the exact opposite trajectory

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I dig it a little less now (wasn’t a fan of the readslist), but mostly bc of 12? That seemed like a really weird sheep to make, bc it’s obvious to anyone that I couldn’t have a conf!scum on skitt and I don’t really see the scum motivation for drawing attention to yourself through pretending to believe an obvious joke

That's why you should be careful of obv jokes

What do you mean?

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not in a way that I understood, so talk me through it

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idk

farks logic is very backwards and weird to me i dont see how they arrive to those conclusions

fuckin preach, emps

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let's do a reads list:

skitt
sushi
NMSA/teacher
emps

epic

seleynee/Farkran

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ffs, the formatting didn't hold

should look like:

_____________________________________________________________skitt
sushi
NMSA/teacher
emps

epic

seleynee/Farkran

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that seems too good to be true tho, cause it'd mean that all the people I've played with before are town

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No, but I always end up TRing skitt so I'm just pre-emptively putting her where she's gonna end up

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you're allowed to talk until the mod closes the thread generally

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Today I learned forum mafia is a game you check every 30 minutes or so, not every few hours.

Reading stuff now...

this game has been super active tbf

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creeper is kinda scummy

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My biggest townread is probably Farkran, for getting people to talk

. The fact that they pointed out they did this kind of negates it though.

for this

I thought that was Farkran trying to get towncred for something he didn't do, and I don't like that creeper is tacitly supporting that view, but leaning off on it just enough to be distancing if Farkran were to flip scum

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oh wait, so were you not actually TRing fark at that point?

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gonna have to say that weakens my read on you a lil bit tbh NMSA, I thought we were mind melding

I think the newbie tell is bullshit site meta

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I can't decide if fark is too scummy to actually be scum or is just scum

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Movile posting so I'm gonna bevlazy, but Menalque and Creeper is my first guess. My farkran read was a reaction test to see if anyone would go along, and Menalaue did. Selynee is town tho for fakehammer. Teacher probtown, emps maybe town.

Skitter is always town

. I'm enjoying this game.

??

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the numbers are sketchy and the sample size is not nearly big enough

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whats up with nmsa saying skitter is always town and menalque saying that he'll end up tring skitter

are they like really obivious as scum or do they always deepwolf/powerplay or smth

Skitter has a bit of a reputation. She rolls VT more than it is humanly possible. I'll assume she's town until I have an excellent reason not to.

that's a weird reason to TR skitt before she's posted

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no, I didn't

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I said that skitt would end up convincing me she's town regardless of whether she is or not

NMSA is saying she rolls VT >% than average which is prob not true long run and a weird reason to pre-emptively TR someone

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the outcome is the same but the thought process leading us there is v markedly different

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I'm deadly serious

VOTE: NMSA

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Ask anyone about skitter, they'll back me up. Or

just read her gtkas, I think she talks about it in there

.

idk if we should talk about this as it's from the speakeasy and I think it's kinda scummy to bring that up knowing that

[Menalque]

Ask anyone about skitter, they'll back me up. Or

just read her gtkas, I think she talks about it in there

.

idk if we should talk about this as it's from the speakeasy and I think it's kinda scummy to bring that up knowing that

That is an incredibly bizarrely reachy take. Speaking about parts of the site is scummy how?

He's bringing it up in support of something he's saying, but multiple people here won't have access I'm p sure, and I thought the rule was that we're not meant to talk about anything in speakeasy outside of it? So it's a way to say "hey, there's evidence for my claim" without it being verifiable/without it being something we should really be discussing, if my understanding of rules about everything in speakeasy is correct

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yeah, I fucked up on the speakeasy thing, it's because I got GTKAS access through applying for speakeasy access so thought the one was inside the other

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when is the first time teacher defends her for V/LA?

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oh, the first post

I didn't think that was serious so I skimmed over it the first time I looked at teacher's iso

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I’m scumreading one of (emps, frak) but I don’t know who yet

UNVOTE:

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I think I’d say I’m kind of at:

Sushi, teacher, skitt (conditionally) all town

Selynee is pretty null

(Emps, fark)(NMSA, creeper) 1 scum in each prob

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Unless I come round to emps v fark as TvT in which case selynee would go into my scumpool

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Just gonna throw it out there now that I think skitt is gonna accuse me of buddying her and SR me for it

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I just have that feeling that that’s how it’ll go

I was actually hoping you’d finish the catch up before you saw that so then I’d have been able to brag that I called it but eh

Also, I would prefer wallposts from you

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I’d like to chat but I think it’ll prob be more fruitful after you finish your catch up if I’m not asleep.by then

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65 is just me shooting the shit

I didn’t want the game to end, but I did want L-1. I had enough doubts that I wanted to see how fark would act under te there’s of hammer coming down, cause I don’t think the pressure is there at the same way for scum unless they’re thinking about the fact that lolhammering could see them die right there and significantly swing the odds in favour of town

You’ve played with me, I think you’ve seen me push people to vote before?

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Re: emps. There’s just been something about the way he’s been tunnelled on fark that pings me a bit, like the whole thing feels a bit exaggerated to me? And I don’t remember him getting this locked in on someone in the town game we had, and I myself have been known to use the lock onto someone and tunnel them approach to get TR

Re: selynee. Honestly can’t remember. I liked the fakehammer, so prob her earlier posts, and also her backing off of the thread as it got more active, but that’s also easily explained by RL. If you want me to go through tomorrow and try to remember why I had her in scum, poke me and I’ll try to remember by looking back at her iso

Re: L-1. Hmm, maybe not. But then there’s also been cases where I would have but didn’t have the credibility, and this game felt active enough that I figured there might be enough folks posting to get a fakehammer off

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intent

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I'm feelibg confident on Menalque-Creeper as the solve rn.

Protip: you shouldn’t be

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Imma talk through where I’m at later if I have time

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It is kinda funny that the two unvotes came from the two people I thought would definitely not unvote here tho, and I’m not sure if it’s AI or not

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Try to get me info lynched and see how that goes for you

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Hmm, I’m not sure I’ve seen you self-meta before teacher

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Unless you did during your 1v1 with urap that time?

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Anyway, yeah, my apologies for being kinda absent

There were quite a lot of posts in the night after my intent where skitt and teacher changed onto my wagon and most of my free time has been eaten up by this new job

This may sound like a prodge, bc it basically is

If I can, I’ll try to play tonight

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I find it weird that you’re as keen for this wagon as you are skitt

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It is kinda weird tho

I think it implies one of the SEs is scum, prob telling their partner to stay off me to keep it looking like it’s not building cause it’s all townie

Idk if you’d do that as scum? But trying to read you is a nightmare anyway

It’s like, everything is basically NAI

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Like I really wanted to TR skitt for 342 bc of this:

“i mean given ~past events~ i'm not entirely surprised this is the approach you'd take for reading me
i'm not sure it's ai; i can see town!you realizing you have no idea how to read me (although i'm not sure defaulting to a townread is the correct way to handle the situation), and i can see you doing this as scum as a way to just like not have to 'read' me”

Bc that’s bang on as analysis

But I can see it coming just as much from scum!skitt as town!skitt

Fundamentally tho, I don’t wanna lynch skitt today bc I am, despite reservations and lack of reading availing, townleabing her

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Also I partly put you as pre-empitve TR bc I wanted to play with you again

And I don’t think scum!me ever pushed you first day anyway, bc I’d rather take you through to lylo in a newbie game and then push you for being good as scum

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So taking skitt!town for now, that means good odds of scum in (NMSA, teacher) idk where I think it is yet

But I think that prob it’s only SEs who would tell a partner to stay off wagon to make it stall

And while it’s not really AI I think it’s marginally more likely that skitt doesn’t make herself the one to point it out if she’s scum?

I guess that emps might tho, and he’s been kinda pinging me for a while. So if I can get to a TR on teacher/NMSA that’s my best candidate

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Fark doesn't die today. He's almost certainly newbtown. Creeper is the best lynch. I'm willing to reconsider on Menalque, but Creeper is almost certainly scum.

VOTE: Creeper

I rly don’t like this? Making me feel like NMSA/fark could be a thing

I haven’t really been reading properly, have they been interacting a lot or kinda ignoring and pushing different directions?

The way and timing seems like a way to get off a wagon that would flip green while it’s low momentum, but giving him the option for a narrative to hop back on me or hammer if the chance comes up/the winds blow that way again

From my admittedly very brief skim, I don’t see why one of fark/creeper is scummier than the other, but I also doubt they’re scum together. Given that, idk why to push creeper, but one explanation is that if gets the lynch off the buddy who is kinda being townread by people, maybe enough to get him through tomorrow as well after creeper!green and if that happened it would definitely be some serious WIFOM in 5p lylo

NB: when I do get around to catching up later, this might completely flip

Not voting until I catch up properly

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That is also the reason why

i'd rather go for an infolynch rather than a scumlynch on d1

. Why do you believe creeper is a good infolynch though? I guess you can see him partnering with me but surely that isn't your only reason?

This is terrible play in general

It’s only worth considering info value if odds of hitting scum are the same between your lynch pool

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Hmm, bit of a wolfy pop-in from sushi there

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Fark is annoying but idk if that makes him scum

I feel less town on town vibes than I would expect from teacher/fark, but that might also be from not being caught up

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Don’t think I’ve seen all the questions for me yet but: my intent wasn’t serious, and that’s part of why I didn’t ask for a claim

How high do you go on your town/scum percentages D1 fark?

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I also think I was caught up at the time ft he intent, it’s since then that I’ve fallen behind

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oh, just looking at my ISO to find where I declared intent: I'd forgotten that I was calling fark/emps as a possible pairing. So that means I've got to Farkran as possible scum in two pairings, through two more-or-less separate reads

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skitt said something that bothered me but can't remember exactly what now: I think about scum!her just pocketing me?

but I don't think scum!her would try and pocket me through buddying me, bc she knows that I know that pocketing is something she chooses to do as scum

I'm also not sure she'd do that to me vs NMSA or teacher bc I don't think scum!skitt would view me as a threat that much

but if she was to not try to pocket me (i.e. what she's done) she might actually be trying to pocket me by not doing what she thinks I would have expected scum!skitt to do

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like, I think there's a good chance scum!skitt just leaves me to push Farkran/someone else she knows is town so I'd take the flak after getting the lynch through

but when my activity took a hit then I became a reasonable first day iynch target bc I'm (1) easier to get through than teacher/NMSA probably (2) I'm less active than emps/sushi so prob also more viable than them (3) I probably become more dangerous late game to scum!skitt as a newbie and I think mislynching me becomes harder the longer game goes on bc I tend towards spewing myself town when I get active

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but I'm also not sure this works because I highly doubt my ability to catch scum!skitt D1 in any given game

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and it does feel like I'm being kinda reachy

prob just fark!scum + maybe NMSA if I trust gut on my wagon

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I doubt scum!skitt bothers to try and pocket fark here but then again I don't consider myself an expert on her and esp I'm not gonna make any pronouncements about being confident in knowing what scum!her would do

100% nothing she's done here is a good reason to put her as solid town

but if she is town then I'd like to have her not dead. also I like playing with her

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The fact that Selynee's sticking around in the thread despite the high tension and has started posting more makes me feel better about her than I did before, especially because her posts seem reasonable.

I looked back over emps' push on Fark; I think it comes from town. The tone is right and the things he points out are mostly reasonable things to point out.

The way skitter keeps defending Fark largely on the basis of him coming from a different site and being used to a different style of play, etc., gives me bad vibes.

I'm still kind of leaning town on teacher, I think? His reasoning is easier to follow than Fark's at any rate, but part of me is a little uncertain whether scum!teacher would use this argument to his advantage, knowing he'd be more capable of expressing himself reasonably.

That leaves NMSA, Menalque, and EpicCreeper.

I don't know where to put you three.

pedit: Do you think it's possible scum!skitt could be trying to pocket town!Fark here?

I think I would be townleaning me based on my play so far

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Farkran why are you doing your best to actively erode the desire I have to not lynch you

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like I almost wanna lynch you not because I think you're scum but just to cut down the number of worthless overlong posts in the thread so it's easier to keep up with

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so if you're town then, you know, play better

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The fact that Selynee's sticking around in the thread despite the high tension and has started posting more makes me feel better about her than I did before, especially because her posts seem reasonable.

I looked back over emps' push on Fark; I think it comes from town. The tone is right and the things he points out are mostly reasonable things to point out.

The way skitter keeps defending Fark largely on the basis of him coming from a different site and being used to a different style of play, etc., gives me bad vibes.

I'm still kind of leaning town on teacher, I think? His reasoning is easier to follow than Fark's at any rate, but part of me is a little uncertain whether scum!teacher would use this argument to his advantage, knowing he'd be more capable of expressing himself reasonably.

That leaves NMSA, Menalque, and EpicCreeper.

I don't know where to put you three.

pedit: Do you think it's possible scum!skitt could be trying to pocket town!Fark here?

I think I would be townleaning me based on my play so far

You're definitely playing differently from Newbie 1938 but one game does not a meta make. (I have not yet looked over your other games. I might try to do so when I get free time.)

Also the fact that you're saying this about your own meta causes me to take it with a grain of salt.

I love self-meta, what can I say

not just because of meta tho, I think my play warrants a light TR aka town lean

I haven't contributed much and have been kinda lurky and not answering questions. That could be scum indicative from town!you's perspective, but it's also reasonable to believe that I'm telling the truth about just being busy

and I think if you look at my posts then you can see that I am scum hunting with the limited time I have available for this game. but that shouldn't be strong enough to hard TR me at this point bc a fair amount of that scum hunting has been me speculating and sharing that speculation with the thread rather than the more time intensive read through/ISO diving

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I also don't think you should look for meta consistency with my scum play bc even if I were scum I wouldn't play like that again with you + teacher + emps in this game

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I find it weird that you’re as keen for this wagon as you are skitt

because i think you've been trying to get in a lynch on lynch-bait-y town

and yeah the fact that the game stalled when you got wagoned is ... slightly concerning

btw the townread i had on selynee has all in all evaporated

surely the definition of Lynch-baity town is that they do things that seem justifiable for lynching

why is this scummy rather than me just disagreeing with you about whether the tells are genuinely scummy vs town being scummy?

I've been more reticent on fark than I think I might have been and I think you know why

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why do I have no strong TRs right now?

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wow, the creeper ISO is bad guys

VOTE: creeper

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fark's walkback of the PR thing is pretty terrible too tho

fyi, fark's been going on about why I'm ignoring him: bc if he's town, he's just really bad

if he's scum, then his posts are actively trying to mislead me

also they're long and annoying

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I am okay with lynching in (fark, creeper) for today

strongly prefer creeper

readslist

selynee -- the fakehammer was towny, lack of content but there is clear attempt to scum hunt there even if it's not great, has got to more or less the same place that I have re:reads
teacher (conditional on fark!scum)
NMSA -- actually townier than I realised, bc I don't think the creeper read is distancing based on the way he's actually been pushing it, I think it's genuine
sushi -- more or less but I've never seen sushi!scum, although she's claimed she's bad at scum when she was town

skitt -- absolutely hasn't done anything that I think is truly AI. absolutely not lynching her today
emps -- just feel like there's something wrong here and I doubt I got both scum on D1 and he feels worse after the others? I wouldn't wanna lynch him unless I could figure out a reason for why his posts have been making me feel iffy about him tho

fark -- playing bad, I feel like everyone else is townier, I'm not gonna not lynch here just bc they might be mislynch bait

creeper -- trash ISO. not lurking or anything, he's in the game but contributing absolutely nothing. when he's been questioned about that he's been evasive, but he hasn't come across in the way I would expect nervous town to (see: sushi in 1938)

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What don’t you like about sushi? What don’t you like about selynee?

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Why would I make it clear that the intent wasn’t serious? I wanted to see if anyone hopped off the wagon bc they were worried about a green flip

I think that’s less likely from you/teacher as a reason to hop off but still possible

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skitt said something that bothered me but can't remember exactly what now: I think about scum!her just pocketing me?

but I don't think scum!her would try and pocket me through buddying me, bc she knows that I know that pocketing is something she chooses to do as scum

I'm also not sure she'd do that to me vs NMSA or teacher bc I don't think scum!skitt would view me as a threat that much

but if she was to not try to pocket me (i.e. what she's done) she might actually be trying to pocket me by not doing what she thinks I would have expected scum!skitt to do

the ways of scum!me are mysterious and inscrutable

really tho i have a pretty simple MO: pocket everyone i can

, nk the threats that i can't, be too 'townie' to be in the lynch pool

i don't push mislynches as scum, or push people at all really; i just kinda waffle back and forth ad position myself well so that when people flip i look good

that's it

like, I think there's a good chance scum!skitt just leaves me to push Farkran/someone else she knows is town so I'd take the flak after getting the lynch through

but when my activity took a hit then I became a reasonable first day iynch target bc I'm (1) easier to get through than teacher/NMSA probably (2) I'm less active than emps/sushi so prob also more viable than them (3) I probably become more dangerous late game to scum!skitt as a newbie and I think mislynching me becomes harder the longer game goes on bc I tend towards spewing myself town when I get active

i really don't think scum!me tries to mislynch town!you here, you tend to obvtown i think and i wouldn't want to deal with that

your reads are decent but not ~great~ so i think i just pocket you and keep you in the game to push mislynches for me

This was funny

[Menalque]

ehhh that wagon is kinda icky; both of the people i'm scumreading are on it rn

still happy wiht my vote i think

Wait, who are you SRing apart from me?

[Menalque]

I actually do think skitt is p scummy so far

[Menalque]

But idk how to respond to that thought: I thought she was p towny the first game we played and she was town, but pfup just finished and I thought she was p towny when she was scum

So idk what conclusion to draw from thinking she’s p scummy this game

[Menalque]

Finally some good content from Mena. Sushi, on the other hand, actually isn't great.

Fine

Just loudly repeating that i still think menalque is scum

VOTE: epic

Oh, I agree. I just think creeper is better for today.

err

qué?

[Menalque]

But idk how to respond to that thought: I thought she was p towny the first game we played and she was town, but pfup just finished and I thought she was p towny when she was scum

So idk what conclusion to draw from thinking she’s p scummy this game

yo skitt, what conclusion should I be drawing from the fact that I am lowkey scum reading you this game?

[Menalque]

hmm, but I also thought I didn't know how to read FL

and then it turned out I did

[Menalque]

UNVOTE:

I wanna think more about scum!skitt

[Menalque]

and this wagon is kinda pinging me for reasons I can't talk about

[Menalque]

no longer convinced I want creeper over skitt today

[Menalque]

I find it rly weird that she's SRing me and setting me up in the case of a creeper town!flip

esp considering that skitt knows I'm hard to mislynch as town

[Menalque]

Sring me but not pushing me*

[Menalque]

oh, just looking at my ISO to find where I declared intent: I'd forgotten that I was calling fark/emps as a possible pairing. So that means I've got to Farkran as possible scum in two pairings, through two more-or-less separate reads

sorry so was it serious or not ?

skitt is a good enough player to know that even if it wasn't serious then I'd want it to look serious or it'd be worthless

acting like this is just trying to paint me as scummy

I think I would be townleaning me based on my play so far

ehhhh this is kinda icky

this is NAI

I find it weird that you’re as keen for this wagon as you are skitt

because i think you've been trying to get in a lynch on lynch-bait-y town

and yeah the fact that the game stalled when you got wagoned is ... slightly concerning

btw the townread i had on selynee has all in all evaporated

surely the definition of Lynch-baity town is that they do things that seem justifiable for lynching

why is this scummy rather than me just disagreeing with you about whether the tells are genuinely scummy vs town being scummy?

I've been more reticent on fark than I think I might have been and I think you know why

because i'm wary of people repeatedly subtly pushing wagons on someone who i believe is town but is playing in a way that makes them imminently lynchable

this is the thing that makes me most thing creeper could actually be town getting pushed by skitt. she's been doing this on creeper by throwing out light SRs on the slot all day but not pushing there at all. there's

just

enough to justify a hop on if the wagon picks up traction, and lo and behold, when it does she does

I think a lot of people are overlooking Selynee and Sushi Martyr. I see good questions from them both, feels like town but could easily be made up.

big oof

we can lynch this too, i think

let me check the vc

like, I think the move to hop on here is super scummy. why not try to move the lynch if you don't like it? why if you SR me do you hop onto the wagon I was just starting to get on board with?

ehhh that wagon is kinda icky; both of the people i'm scumreading are on it rn

still happy wiht my vote i think

don't think her acknowledging it makes it a towny move. also "I'm happy with my vote" to be v shortly followed by a change

vote mena with me!

half heartedly pushing me

prob justifies a hop to me "menalque wasn't really going anywhere" for example, and she's setting up the "if creeper!green then menalque!scum" narrative. and getting me mislynched means she can NK teacher/NMSA if they're town meaning she can bring a bunch of scummy slots to LYLO (like, is anyone really gonna SR it if she was to completely flip round her read on fark? I doubt it)

Fine

Just loudly repeating that i still think menalque is scum

VOTE: epic

keeping pushing the narrative of me!scum to be consistent and avoiding pushing me.

I believe skitt when she says she doesn't really push as scum. what's she doing her? avoiding pushing, but building up narratives to set the tone for D2

[Menalque]

Yes i agree that sitting on your wagon for like 3 irl days and trying yo get other people to vote with me is 'scumreading you without pushing you' , totally

I believe that you're a good enough player that if you'd really wanted to get votes on me, you would have got them

I think you didn't bc it lets you push this angle now

[Menalque]

like, I'm not a great player but I can get votes on people pretty consistently

skitt is definitely a better player than me, there's no way my wagon stalls out like that if town!her is genuinely trying to make it happen

[Menalque]

yeah, I'd rather go here today

VOTE: skitt

[Menalque]

Or

Radical thought

You could just

Tell us why

????

[Menalque]

Spicy

Knew there was a good reason to scumlean emps

[Menalque]

Sushi can be town

[Menalque]

I don’t think you’re wrong so much as I think that analysis is a steaming pile of horseshit bc you’re basing it on trains and VCA is hot trash at the best of times but especially when we don’t even have a flip

[Menalque]

awww man someones scumreading me for hopping off a wagon onto someone else

wait

that... sounds strangely similar. got no idea what it could be

I mean

This is p terrible

I’ve been scumleaning you all game pretty much

And this is basically a misrep

The action may be the same — hop off onto someone else — the way in which it happens and the evolution of the reads is totally different

[Menalque]

I think it’s very easy to see how I got to scum!skitt

Seeing how you got to scum!me as town is a whole lot harder

[Menalque]

I don’t think you’re wrong so much as I think that analysis is a steaming pile of horseshit bc you’re basing it on trains and VCA is hot trash at the best of times but especially when we don’t even have a flip

@fsrk

[Menalque]

Annoyingly, I am now PoE TRing fark

[Menalque]

I’m gonna be online in like 30 and tipsy. Slots happened but leave me any questions you want as well.

Men’s, is like you to put the skit evolution into words, because although I see it I want verbalizatiob.

Emps, same on mena- you earlier said way off scum meta so what changed?

When you say tipsy

Do you mean hammered?

[Menalque]

Also I’m not doing that tonight teach, sorry

On my phone before I go to sleep and that’s a proper writing post

[Menalque]

Also if you can see it why do you want it verbalised?

[Menalque]

I kinda see the point in seeing if the way I write it up i try to make fit or if it fits naturally being AI

But I think the odds of me slipping up there are fairly slim either way? So I don’t think you’re gonna get anything useful out of it

[Menalque]

Yeah, that’s fair

You’re right, I didn’t because that’s the whole segment of game that I haven’t read holistically, only through ISOs (and therefore only hits of it)

I’ll explain both of them tokorrow

[Menalque]

Ffs

Creeper

You no longer had intent, emps is voting me rn

[Menalque]

I think this is prob true incidentally

[Menalque]

I think creeper’s play makes sense from the POV of newb!town not wanting to draw attention

[Menalque]

I haven’t, but I’m busy today so if I do it today it won’t be until 5pm your Time earliest (I think)

Also not sure

I think fark jumping onto me is a lil bit scummy (like, not even really thinking about skitt?) but also I think fark has been bad enough that if town that’s probably just town them still being bad

[Menalque]

Why did you unvote if you don’t agree w/ me?

[Menalque]

yo I just got on, so creeper scum and fark is masons with who?

[Menalque]

oh, NMSA

why did you hammer before I could post about skitt?

[Menalque]

Oh my... VCA analysis is useless? I mean i come from another site and all but it seems to me that you analyze all the wrong things in here. Analyzing progression flow is useless especially in d1, reads flip all the time due to sheer lack of info, people playing tricks on others for reaction test purposes, post count skyrocketing so it takes a lot of rereads from all povs to get a clear idea of what's going on on people's heads, and stupid rvs/rqs to boot (i mean stupid as in they don't make a lot of sense and are usually used to get people to speak). I update my readings a billion times during d1s and so far i only got a secure position on nmsa and emps, everything else may go from TR to strong SR and vice versa in a second.

D1 you mostly analyze VCA and behavior, then possible pairings depending on vca/behav, finally you may look at words used while hunting for scumslips or strong towntells. Actual words used (aka progression) have little importance if not backed up by actions (aka relevant VCA).

i.e. emps has potentially bad VCA but very strong behavior and i can see no pairings on him.

This is how to play imho.

I did forget sushi was on my train at some point though.

short answer: yes, VCA is useless bc scum is aware of the fact that VCA and you don't know if they're going to WIFOM it

like, my first scum game me + my partner both hopped on the wagon for the D1 lynch but people defaulted to "1 on, 1 off" making one of us less susp

so the problem is you never know in a given game if that game is conforming to conventional wisdom, or if scum are aware of that and playing against it, making it worthless

same reason why scum!ranges are worthless -- you never know if the given game you're in is the one where someone is choosing to expand theirs

[Menalque]

I mean I'll try to get it out before nexus locks the thread

[Menalque]

hmmm, you're very wrong on me, so you're not getting a perfect game even if you do mislynch me tomorrow

still, this does suggest prob not teacher!scum bc I don't think he'd suggest such a bad fakeclaim from creeper?

[Menalque]

same prob goes for skitt, but I can at least see her potentially deciding to bus once creeper seemed to be going down, and having enough confidence in her scum game to try and ride this out to the win

[Menalque]

so if NMSA, fark, teacher all town

then who's left?

don't think Selynee buses as early. could be TMI and distancing gone wrong tho

skitt/emps are less likely to advise the fakeclaim I think? but both have been scummy

so PoE is would give sushi as the last scum

[Menalque]

Oh hi there menalque

sup

[Menalque]

teacher, your late day play here is scummy

why the equivocating on the unvotes? why the rush when we have conf!scum?

if I don't think I'm ever the NK here but if I am the mislynch tomorrow I'm actually not sure about teacher!town now

[Menalque]

don't let teacher ride out the towncred here for the win

[Menalque]

posting the skitt case has less equity here than getting it in early that you're scum seeing as I'm so strongly set for a mislynch tomorrow

[Menalque]

kudos for being the first person to actually mislynch me tho

[Menalque]

there's no reason to rush day through here as town

[Menalque]

I've been more reticent on fark than I think I might have been and I think you know why

This is also why I was coming around on Menalque for playing the same possibility.

I dont think Menalque is the solve tho. I think he would have discussed safeclaims - his last scum game involved a counterclaim-off. I also think he coaches in the scum-PT more -> to be active and how to respond. I mean it is certainly possible and would be fine lynching him, but want to raise that.

I need to reevaluate the other newbs.

@Menalque, in case it wasnt clear, its time to talk about your skitter evolution.

Eh, i thought for a while about whether Menalque could be NOT gamesolve, but, well... he jumped off creeper's train when it was given intent, made up some narrative about skitter (which made sense though, that is why i wanted to get menalque before creeper at the time - if he flipped scum as i thought he would, it would have cleared my doubts and we could go ahead) AND changed his playstyle based on what meta!fark did on emps. The narrative and playstyle shift were good - before he jumped off the train i literally said in my PT that i was townreading him. Jumping off the creeper train was a huge mistake.

Also i think that for some reason they couldn't communicate properly. In this setup, mafia can talk during the day in the same way masons can, am i correct? How come creeper has been playing that poorly if he could communicate with... anyone either than him here? Even i, with my inexperience of this site standards, would have told him to actually DO SOMETHING and i swear, no way he would have claimed a PR if i was his partner and he could read me.

jumping off the creeper train is literally why you should be TRing me

scum!me is never hopping off at that point

[Menalque]

ss equity here than getting it in early that you're scum seeing as I'm so strongly set for a mislynch tomorrow

actually more, since without a case on skitter, the lynch pool objectively should be (you-sushi-//-whichever one of me and emps town chooses D4). So if you want her considered, you should type it.

again, I'm never getting Nk'd here because I am so ripe for a mislynch

so it's better for me to be posting actively and catching up than to be going through trying to explain exactly what was off about skitt's ISO and progression only to find a locked thread before I can post it

[Menalque]

do try to be protown with your invincibility though, Fark.

I genuinely tried though. My game experience is A LOT different than yours. Fakehammering was considered a dirty play, days lasted 48 hours (hence some of my posts containing SRs against people not writing much), WAY more PRs in our setups, etc.

We valued VCA and association analysis more than everything, progression is worth nothing on d1

lol you come from a very different place.

I mean seriously. However, look at the result - in the end, we gamesolved based on VCA. True that it's HEAVILY creeper's fault and our CC counts as a flip, so you could say this is already d2, but despite my crappy progression on pretty much everyone except teacher (who turned out to be town, lol, sorry mate), i arrived to the conclusion that Menalque was likely scum through my methods. NMSA didn't instruct me on WHY he thought menalque-creeper was gamesolve (but he did mention it earlier in this thread), and i was still advocating creeper at the time.

NB: remind me to make fun of this after the game, bc it's proof that VCA is trash

[Menalque]

Lynch order should prob be me-->teacher-->sushi-->skitt at this point

[Menalque]

just, fgs, after I flip town lynch teacher next

[Menalque]

if I was scum here I'd concede lol

[Menalque]

I cba because I don't think there's any way to save the mislynch here on D2 and I'm p much as confident as I can be on scum!you at this point

I think you know you've lost but you think that if you eliminate me through mislynch you can maybe coast through to 3p lylo then claim you've been left alive bc scum thought they could mislynch you there

+ I think maybe you're a little salty about 1938

[Menalque]

the fact that the more I think about it the more I think a bad fakeclaim on a scum that's going down D1 anyway does come from a more experienced player after all bc it sets up a newer player as the partner

so this way you get a lovely mislynch chain of me-->sushi-->selynee

[Menalque]

which would bring you through to 3p lylo with I'm guessing emps + skitt and hope that you could sell one on the other

[Menalque]

incl the fact that after 3 newbie townflips you'd be in the perfect position to set up skitt as the lynch for being the most likely person to bus and to carry it through that far as scum

like, I'm so SR right now that I know this won't make a difference. but when I do get mislynched, town can come and look back and lynch you

[Menalque]

Youre off in confbias land. I'll see you on the flip side. I look forward to whatever skitter narrative you come up with in the 48 hours.

scum!teacher trying to discredit my read after I townflip bc if people pay literally any attention to me once I'm conf!town he should be the next to see rope literally 100% of the time

[Menalque]

everyone still here: what is the motivation for me doing any of this as scum?

why do I not just concede here?

answer: bc I'm town and I'm set for a mislynch

[Menalque]

and I'm trying to save town bc apparently there are at least 3 players who can't read me for shit this game (aka skitt, fark, NMSA)

[Menalque]

D1 -- creeper lynch 7-1
N1 -- let's say NMSA nk 6-1
D2 -- mena lynch 5-1
N2 -- fark nk 4-1
D3 -- sushi Lynch 3-1
N3 -- town!kill 2-1

huh yeah okay that does check out

teacher is still scum here tho

[Menalque]

I also don't think town is looking for crumbs so intently

yeah the only doubt I have is about that, but then again I think scum!you would tell him to do that fakeclaim to eliminate suspicion from you bc it would be out of character

and it kinda worked: emps has bought it, and I did at an initial glance -- but once you look past the surface level analysis it actually implies scum!teacher more than it implies town!teacher

[Menalque]

i still don't actually know if i'm hammered or not lol

i can't trust anything here

you are very hammered

if you could conf that teacher is your scum partner that would be v useful for us all

[Menalque]

IF we are both town, emps will know to lynch skitter based on 540. Your wagon would not be all town.

in the vanishingly small number of worlds where you're town then yeah, it prob is skitt scum after all

[Menalque]

my but whole point here is to remind town, if they look at my iso even once, that

my mislynch should lead to a teacher!lynch the next day

100% of the time

[Menalque]

@Creeper, youre hammered but feel free to talk.

@Menalque, town should be trying to get all information it can. It helps town to manipulate their readslists to protect PRs/avoid NKs (why emps was above them in the same post)

right so why would you try to close the game down early? esp when shutting it down before I got online/posted a skitt analysis would give you the chance to say that I fabricated it the next day during night

[Menalque]

now you're so desperate for it bc you want to change my focus away from you

I also think you prob want me dead bc you realised I was the most likely person to question the fact of creeper fakeclaim implying town!you so shutting down night actually benefits you bc I don't get to raise the points today

[Menalque]

I wont even fight that mislynch if you are town. A convincing skitter narrative is about the only thing that will get me to fight against your lynch tomorrow, but it needs to be today. Why the fuck do you think I keep asking you.

bc you're trying to divert my attention away from you and have a convincing skitt narrative to push late game from a conf!town player

[Menalque]

also my skitt narrative is clear from reading my ISO

[Menalque]

My lynch order is mena>teacher>sushi>skitter tbh

@mena i appreciate the effort. Not even joking here, i appreciate it. However, would have we won an award or something if we got a perfect game?

If my math is correct, mechsolving only gives 55% winrate though. But this is hardly a mechsolving matter.

you won't get a perfect game even if there is no NK because you're gonna mislynch me tomorrow

[Menalque]

like I fully accept that I'm the mislynch tomorrow

but I also think town is playing terribly bc there's just no way that I pour in this much effort as scum when I've lost

I'm just trying to make sure that town don't fuck up what should be a winning game

[Menalque]

no

it's obvious to see from reading my posts

teacher is scum

lynch him after me

[Menalque]

I’m gonna be online in like 30 and tipsy. Slots happened but leave me any questions you want as well.

Men’s, is like you to put the skit evolution into words,

because although I see it I want verbalizatiob.

Emps, same on mena- you earlier said way off scum meta so what changed?

doesn't sound like it was unclear

[Menalque]

also my skitt narrative is clear from reading my ISO

ITs not. ITs why I asked for it yesterday and you said it was "fair". So why should it be obvious now?

I’m gonna be online in like 30 and tipsy. Slots happened but leave me any questions you want as well.

Men’s, is like you to put the skit evolution into words,

because although I see it I want verbalizatiob.

Emps, same on mena- you earlier said way off scum meta so what changed?

doesn't sound like it was unclear

this alone should be enough proof that teacher is the second scum once I flip town

but then again town is playing p terribly bc I am obvtowning so hard right now and none of you are seeing it apparently

[Menalque]

skitt is still kinda scummy if teacher does flip town tho

[Menalque]

bc skitt is someone I would definitely expect to TR me this game and she doesn't/didn't so prob lynch skitt before sushi actually

and that happened in Pokemon fusion with FL and I correctly got him as scum there

[Menalque]

nah, I'm going to bed, lynch order should be teacher-->skitt-->sushi

but bc you're (town collectively) bad you're gonna mislynch me first, so my revised order is me-->teacher-->skitt-->sushi

although do be v susp of emps if he's in lylo, but then again prob just be susp of everyone

[Menalque]

bc skitt is someone I would definitely expect to TR me this game and

Dude, you played scummy.

You townread Fark (knowntown) on posts that everyone else found scummy.
You flipped out NMSA (knowntown) for incredibly reachy reasons.

Only when you started to be a wagon did you town it up.

You saw Fark as potential PR and hinted that. Which should have made you flip back onto Fark after the Creeper claim, given that you claimed to believe Creeper, but instead you simply promised the skitter followup without a hint of switching back to Fark. (Also, you gave the initial push to believe creeper - coing online to do that, but not to post what you had said you would.

Like objectively, there isnt a good reason to townread you this game. Im looking for one. Thats why Im being a stick in the mud.

Just incidentally, this is all why I should be being TR and it also implies scum!teacher

He’s familiar with me as scum, and he knows I wouldn’t be this careless as scum

I never saw fark as possible PR or hinted at it

I made it v clear why I wasn’t posting about skitt (I was out) and he knows I don’t do long posts from my phone. That’s established meta for me

Also he (should?) know that I increasingly only start to town it up when I get wagoned

Look at pfup for an example, or purge mafia

I think I was prob on balance scummy in both of those games until I got wagoned at which point I obvtowned like hell

Like I’m doing now

Because I’m town

My scumgame is not good enough to play like this as scum

[Menalque]

Guaranteed after I flip town creature either tired to discredit me/justify his progression on my slot (referring back to posts like the above) or he acts super chill about his own wagon or both

Either way, just make sure he does after me

[Menalque]

Fuck, teacher* not creature

[Menalque]

That was not a PR hint in any way shape or form

[Menalque]

That was my first game, I’ve evolved a lot as a player since then

[Menalque]

Lol actually now you mention it the fact that fark was SRing you forever does vaguely count in favour of town!you

[Menalque]

I’ve been talking about why you’re scum for about 5 pages

[Menalque]

But I might as well add that I don’t think town!you doesn’t have significant doubts about scum!me by this point, so the fact that you’re not having those is a good extra reason to SR you

Like I think when people go back through my ISO after I get mislynched (as they should but prob won’t bc as has been mentioned, this town is playing terribly — I think I was prob unfair when I said town

was

bad. You’re just playing bad) they’ll see how incredibly obvtown I’ve been this evening and the fact that you’ve engaged with me this much here but aren’t having any doubts is scum!indicative too

[Menalque]

yea, but its all to do with literally the last four hours. IF thats enough to convince you, fair, but what would be my scum motivation for pushing creeper as the comp wagon when skitter was on you and I was on Fark? Like the Creeper inevitability I think came from Spam first, but me as the biggest pusher to find a compromise.

I don’t think anything you did before the last 4 hours is outside the range of scum!you efforting obv!town

But I think the last 4 hours is enough to hard scumread you

It’s like, say your partner has been kinda nice, gets you presents, cooks dinner, sometimes gives you a back rub for a year

When you’re evaluating them as a partner, if you walk in on them fucking someone else then you’re gonna weight that more in the evaluation than all the little stuff that came before