Mini 2097 - Make Me Regret This Game Over

[Sujimichi]

Hey everyone. Anything pertinent for me to know?

[Sujimichi]

I will add that to my notes. Anything else?

[Sujimichi]

Don't listen to them if they tell me to vote you, or don't listen to them about anything in general? The former seems to go hand-in-hand with your previous statement. I'm unlikely to adhere to the latter.

[Sujimichi]

Hey everyone. Anything pertinent for me to know?

Yeah we need a vote on elements pls and thank

I was told not to listen to this. Would you like to help me understand why I should?

[Sujimichi]

Suji are you an alt?

I'm not. I am familiar with the site via a friend though.

[Sujimichi]

Hey everyone. Anything pertinent for me to know?

Yeah we need a vote on elements pls and thank

I was told not to listen to this. Would you like to help me understand why I should?

Yes, ele is scum and we’re getting close to deadline

I think my ISO contains good arguments for why he was deeply unimpressive D1 and why that’s scum indicative

At least 1 person (I think eth0s here if you look at his ISO) has made a case D2 for why ele is scum

I'll take a look at yours and eth0s' ISOs then. Thanks.

[Sujimichi]

Is this your first game suji? Also could you say who your friend is?

It's my first game on this site.

[Sujimichi]

I'll vote Elements if I have to, but I would prefer to hear from someone who didn't want me to be lynched before I do that.

[Sujimichi]

VOTE: Elements

[Sujimichi]

The only reason I'm not voting Elements right now is that I am aware it would be the hammer vote and I imagine there would be people dissatisfied with the day ending so abruptly.

You were aware that your vote would be the hammer vote even though four posts ago there was a vote count showing Elements with five votes (which also stated it takes six votes to lynch), and the subsequent post was a vote on Elements? I think you are capable of kindergarten level math.

[Sujimichi]

She was posting while catching up, Suj

I fail to see how this precludes her from seeing posts that are within that close proximity to her own. Especially when one is the vote count.

[Sujimichi]

She would have seen the page she was posting on after her first post.

[Sujimichi]

Let’s get this done peeps, jjh isn’t living until tomorrow after that end f day plau

I have a day 4 ability and also if I take damage I die

That seems convenient to claim today.

[Sujimichi]

Chem who was your pt with again?

I don’t know no one told me

Ask. I had to ask after I noticed I should have access, but was given access after asking.

[Sujimichi]

Also TD really SRed you jjh

I don't think he was (1193).

[Sujimichi]

mastina is a bad vote for today because she dies tonight.

[Sujimichi]

Elements didn't claim a result because he didn't need to distance because he was already being bussed

So adorable, elbirn or suji?

I wasn’t voting elements when he claimed.

[Sujimichi]

Side note:
can someone ELI5 TDs role to me?
what is a recruitable traitor?
I don't at all understand what the implication against elbirn is in jjh's "tinfoily" hot take

1. Copscetic: Ascetic to cops (at least ones that return whether your meet a criteria or not [e.g. Town/Not Town])
   
2. Recruitable Traitor: Traitor that, when shot, is recruited into the main Mafia group instead of dying
   
3. jjh927 is implying that Mafia mistook Son of a Shepherd's post 669 as a Traitor crumb and shot Son of a Sheoherd in an attempt to recruit him. jjh927 states that this statement was directed at Elbirn which implies that Elbirn is Mafia.

[Sujimichi]

I feel like posts a make are being ignored, but we'll see.

[Sujimichi]

@suji do you know why I might be hesitant to vote you?

My predecessor said you would be vital to proving his claim, and I know why. Yes.

[Sujimichi]

I feel like posts a make are being ignored, but we'll see.

I mean I’m reading them for if something piques my interest but I SR you strongly enough that I don’t really wanna bring you into the solving circle atm

I wasn't really talking about you.

[Sujimichi]

Okay someone riddle me this. water is a part of the flavor or TD's role right? but has nothing to do with the role function itself?

then what is the point of someone being informed that there is at least one player with a role that has something to do with water?

like is that actually just useless info or what

I don't believe it to be useless information, but I do wonder what use it had to the person that had the information unless the intent was for them to announce it.

[Sujimichi]

By wondering, that means I have mine as well. What was the point of that post? Would you like to discuss or you just like to post for postings sake?

[Sujimichi]

I believe I see it as well, eth0s.

[Sujimichi]

This is why I said people are ignoring me.

[Sujimichi]

What do you think I'm wrong about?

[Sujimichi]

mastina dying tonight and another thing that I perceive you to be implying

I can say with 99% certainty I'm not wrong.

[Sujimichi]

This is why I said people are ignoring me.

Say something worth engaging with

You're just sitting there bemoaning being ignored but you haven't said anything worth responding to

If you're not getting much out of these conversations, it's probably best you don't engage or interrupt.

[Sujimichi]

Becuase, I would rather not spend today on something that will happen later because she's toast tonight.

[Sujimichi]

Plus if you think she's town (do you?) then there could be someone that can prevent damage from being done to her, or revert the damage. so help me understand where you're coming from.

I do not, and I thought my comments at the end of yesterday would have alluded to that.

[Sujimichi]

On further consideration, I'm fine with this vote.

VOTE: mastina

[Sujimichi]

On further consideration, I'm fine with this vote.

VOTE: mastina

And what further consideration would that be

btw I was hooded with TL, nothing happened there

Futher consideration that:

1. Made me re-evaluate my 99% confidence level
   
2. Made me realize I was approaching the situation from a selfish and individualistic perspective

[Sujimichi]

no

(soon)

I think we need to work on your definition of "soon."

[Sujimichi]

1. I didn't like her end of day play yesterday.
   
2. I don't really care for it today.
   
3. Role-related reasons that I'd rather not get into right now, but will be happy to discuss tomorrow.

[Sujimichi]

Suji is mastina going to die tonight or no?

What didn’t you like about it for 1 & 2 ?

I’m in phone and can explain better later, but I didn’t like her posting after the Elements hammer, and I’m not a fan of her reads today (and overall posting by extension).

[Sujimichi]

Suji is mastina going to die tonight or no?

If I were to make a bet, I would bet yes.

I’m no longer 99% certain, but I have good confidence that she will.

[Sujimichi]

suji why the heck do you think mastina is going to die tonight?

Role related.

[Sujimichi]

Suji is mastina going to die tonight or no?

What didn’t you like about it for 1 & 2 ?

I’m in phone and can explain better later, but I didn’t like her posting after the Elements hammer, and I’m not a fan of her reads today (and overall posting by extension).

okay, I can wait, but why do you think that her reads are bad today? even if you subtract yourself do you not think the other reads are good?

if you think they're bad where is the scum? if jjh/mastina, why is chem claiming a soft clear on jjh?

Isn’t it because of the plastic (weak to damage) claim? I don’t see that as a good clear.

[Sujimichi]

I think I missed that. I’ll look it up later.

[Sujimichi]

I actually looked it up now. Chemist says he believes it to be a negative utility for scum but doesn’t say what it is. I still don’t think it’s a good clear.

1. I don’t know Chemist’s ability to balance setups and thus his ability to make such a determination especially in the absence of full-setup information.
   
2. Even if it is a negative utility for scum, it may be a necessary negative utility to balance the overall setup.

[Sujimichi]

TL’s posting the previous two pages is very bad.

[Sujimichi]

You should probably claim.

[Sujimichi]

at this point maybe...

I'm a Town Inventor...

That’s what your role was actually called in the message from the mod?

[Sujimichi]

Despite my feelings on alignment, I like jjh927.

[Sujimichi]

Who are you?

[Sujimichi]

I am willing to because mastina can still be resolved tonight if necessary.

[Sujimichi]

I am fine waiting, but TL's posting has not improved.

[Sujimichi]

I don't understand any of your points on him for being scum, and I like that he was on the Elements lynch and asked me to join when I said that I was looking for someone who wasn't scumreading me to do so. I don't like that he is somewhat detached from the game recently, but I also like his stance on mastina and JJH (particular the wagon theory from yesterday).

Town read for me.

[Sujimichi]

You thought I was town (however weakly) until I disagreed with you. That's not a good mark. I would like to hammer, but I will honor Menalque's request for mastina to show up.

Would you care to clairify some of your point on Elibirn in the meantime? Maybe summarize and almalgamate.

[Sujimichi]

How long are we going to wait for mastina?

[Sujimichi]

You already called him an openwolf. With bolding for emphasis.

[Sujimichi]

I'm not waiting 5 days. I will wait until tonight.

[Sujimichi]

I don't really care. Waiting indefinitely kills engagement in the game, one person's thoughts isn't worth that, and I won't let that happen if I'm able. She had opportunity but decided to post for posting sake.

[Sujimichi]

Especially given that I don't have a townread on her.

[Sujimichi]

Fine.

[Sujimichi]

I'm a provable town role overnight as I've alluded to already, but sure.

[Sujimichi]

I'm actually somewhat irritated that I am willing to work with you, but you'd rather try and redirect it to me now.

[Sujimichi]

I have been hesitant on voting TL because he claimed Inventor which is always a town role and there aren't that many players I could think of who would be TL's scum buddy. Only players I could think of who would be TL's scum buddy would either be Chemist or Menalque.

It's not always a town role as jjh showed in post 1749. Why do you think Menalque could be TL's scumbuddy?

[Sujimichi]

I'm not waiting 5 days. I will wait until tonight.

I don't really care. Waiting indefinitely kills engagement in the game, one person's thoughts isn't worth that, and I won't let that happen if I'm able. She had opportunity but decided to post for posting sake.

This does not feel like you’re trying to work with me.

Why did you leave out:

Fine.

[Sujimichi]

I acquiesced to your ask to wait, hence I was willing to work with you.

[Sujimichi]

Or, does me "working with you" mean that I am not allowed to have thoughts and opinions of my own that differ from yours?

[Sujimichi]

No, but I don’t get why you’re being needlessly abrasive about it

I'm not trying to be abrasive. Apologies if it comes across that way.

[Sujimichi]

Elements was a scumread of mine the entire game.

You never voted them when they were in danger of a lynch, and you didn't push for it much at all. You even say that you should have but didn't. You were voting me over Elements at end of the day yesterday, and Elements had moved below me and TL in your scum list.

That is undeniable.

[Sujimichi]

Was that it?

[Sujimichi]

When we're lynching the person I want to lynch, I have no reason to give more than what I have.

Didn't you "want to lynch" Elements? We lynched Elements by the way. You didn't really contribute to that.

[Sujimichi]

Lol I’m actually thinking that TL was the designated mislynch and it’s just (suji, elbirn) now
Chem/jjh/Eth0s/mastina hmu when you see this

If TL is town this game he's Korina levels of terrible.

I'll take that risk with the lynch thankyouverymuch.

Wasn't Korina town?

[Sujimichi]

I think you're done now given post numbers and time. Am I wrong?

[Sujimichi]

Site activity doesn't affect any of my other statements, nor preclude you from taking action if you had a real scum read on them. The fact remains they were a convenient scum read for you, and not one of the two you were pushing.

[Sujimichi]

strong townplayer hasn’t weighed in

I would like an explanation to this statement, because I have not seen evidence of this in this game, and the most recent contribution is lacking. Have you played together before as town; and, if so, could you link me to a game so that I could review.

[Sujimichi]

We lynched Elements. Someone I wanted to lynch. So why did I need to contribute to it? It was a lynch I wanted.

Because it's easy to say "I want something," but if you don't do something to try and get it, it's an empty statement and scummy.

[Sujimichi]

It is also undeniable that Elements was lynched when I wasn't around in this game (maybe even on site, would have to check my activity sitewide to confirm that one).

You're right. The lynch occurred one hour before you contributed again to the game after three days of absence. Solid timing.

Spoiler:

Failure to answer question on a directly untrue statement about the past. (Lots of people were scumreading Jjh)

Said statement was used in an attempt to prove self town.

Conclusion: Not-Town

VOTE: Elements

No self hammer for you fishy, muahahahah

Martina, are you town?

Yes, but the real question would be are you? Sure doesn't seem that way to me.

[Sujimichi]

Not taking a stance is scummy, so I don't get why, if this is your typical play, I don't understand why Menalque thinks you are a strong town player (which is a question I asked to him). It allows you to flow to freely with the game and say stuff like "I'm a reactive player."

You aren't contributing much of anything, despite your claims otherwise.

[Sujimichi]

VOTE: mastina

[Sujimichi]

That question was decidedly not directed toward you.

[Sujimichi]

You said things.

Melnaque is scum. eth0s is scum. Elbirn is scum. I am light in reasons as to why.

Look. I've said things. I've now contributed the same as you in that regard.

[Sujimichi]

That question was decidedly not directed toward you.

That doesn't mean I have no commentary to give, nor does it mean that your question will have any less value by reading it and also Menalque's response.

I didn't want your commentary. It's almost as if I wanted Menalque's commentary, and his alone. Which is why it was directed toward him.

[Sujimichi]

I'm done engaging, as it will no longer be productive. You either are lynched today or die tonight. I don't really care which.

[Sujimichi]

Please prod mastina and Menalque. It's a little disconcerting that Menalque disappeared after the postings that mastina made.

[Sujimichi]

VOTE: TL

[Sujimichi]

suji you're probably scum this game for that naked vote out of creationspace

You think everyone who votes you is scum. I'm pretty much ignoring you at this point.

[Sujimichi]

UNVOTE:

This is interesting.

[Sujimichi]

Oh...you are both having a back and forth. Sorry.

VOTE: unvote

[Sujimichi]

I'll catchup in a minute, but my priority really is hearing back from Menalque given my exchange with mastina.

VOTE: mastina

[Sujimichi]

Ok. So, TL scumreads anyone who scumreads/votes him, and mastina is town because Elbirn is openwolf and it's distancing. That's what I got from the catchup. I don't TL makes any sense at all, and probably isn't scum since there is the ability to privately talk during the day.

[Sujimichi]

I don't think you'll like my answer, but it starts with mastina.

[Sujimichi]

I'm not sure how you could read any of her recent posting and think she was town to be quite honest.

[Sujimichi]

yeah suji you might just be scum

It's best if you just be quiet.

[Sujimichi]

yeah suji you might just be scum

It's best if you just be quiet.

VOTE: Sujimichi

This really reinforces my point.

[Sujimichi]

I'm not sure how you could read any of her recent posting and think she was town to be quite honest.

This was kind of something I wanted you to respond to, jjh. Help me understand how her recent posting comes from town.

[Sujimichi]

Menalque has been saying that mastina is a strong town player. I don't believe that posting comes from someone who is a strong town player. So, either mastina is not a strong town player, or mastina is not town. Mechanics play no role in my determining her alignment despite that I may have reason to believe so given her flavor claim.

[Sujimichi]

TL if you're town I want you to know that this is not the way to play mafia

i mean it is kinda an omgus

It's not omgus as I said you were town.

[Sujimichi]

but I fail to see how telling someone to stop posting is not scummy

Becuase your posting is nonsensical and distracting from actually finding scum.

[Sujimichi]

I don't intend offense with that, but look at your posting and voting record on the previous three to four days. You are a distraction.

[Sujimichi]

Menalque has been saying that mastina is a strong town player. I don't believe that posting comes from someone who is a strong town player. So, either mastina is not a strong town player, or mastina is not town. Mechanics play no role in my determining her alignment despite that I may have reason to believe so given her flavor claim.

She's disengaged and I genuinely believe that.

I guess I don't understand why someone who is truly disengaged continues to play the game. It's not mandatory.

[Sujimichi]

Not really. If you believe her to be a strong town player, and that she is not playing well here, then why would you assume she is town not playing well versus not town?

[Sujimichi]

suji/adorbs why do you not wanna vote here? idk if that's necessarily true but bc we're low on time then if your next post isn't intent I'd like to know why

jjh I'd like a full claim from you

I don't have a problem with it. My post 2106 implies that I have him in my scum pairing with mastina. I could lynch either one today.

I see you are basing your opinion of mastina on one game, so that helps me understand the strength of your view.

[Sujimichi]

she’s written an entire academies worth of resources

Non-game related, but could you link me to these?

[Sujimichi]

On day 4 I power up all roles in the game

What does powering up roles do? When you say "all roles" does this mean both roles for town and scum?

[Sujimichi]

On day 4 I power up all roles in the game

What does powering up roles do? When you say "all roles" does this mean both roles for town and scum?

I think it's different for everyone, but my main theory regards the modifiers damn near everyone has

Yes, all roles generally tends to mean that

Your role PM should provide at least some specificity as to what "powering up" means. You should be able to paraphrase that per the mod's ruleset. I'll pretend to ignore the snark since debating that isn't actually helpful.

[Sujimichi]

I believe he was referring to you.

[Sujimichi]

I really can't make sense of where you area coming from. How did you infer that?

[Sujimichi]

are*

[Sujimichi]

well the image makes me think either eth0s is scum or jjh is scum, and it doesn't make sense for jjh to claim scum

I understood that the image made you think that. What was it about the image? The Japanese writing just highlights the sound of their walking, so I'm not sure what else it could be.

[Sujimichi]

according to chemist it would likely be negative utility for scum

What do you think now that we know the full role?

[Sujimichi]

well the image makes me think either eth0s is scum or jjh is scum, and it doesn't make sense for jjh to claim scum

I understood that the image made you think that. What was it about the image? The Japanese writing just highlights the sound of their walking, so I'm not sure what else it could be.

I was paying attention to the characters

I assumed that. What about the characters made you think that?

[Sujimichi]

according to chemist it would likely be negative utility for scum

What do you think now that we know the full role?

it would likely be negative utility for scum

Then why lead with Chemist's assumption since you had your own?

[Sujimichi]

elbirn you realize that's a hammer right

UNVOTE:

LET'S PLAY A GAME

consider TL/Mastina/JJH to all only require 4 votes to lynch, as I am quick hammering whichever one of them hits L-1 first. I will never vote anyone outside of those three today. Good luck have fun

I'm pretty sure he did.

[Sujimichi]

Yes, thanks for modding. This was a fun game.

[Sujimichi]

Fucking great shot whoever killed Eth0s

Thank you. I’m just glad I changed my mind on mastina.

[Sujimichi]

Fucking great shot whoever killed Eth0s

Thank you. I’m just glad I changed my mind on mastina.

EspressoPatronum gets credit for the eth0s kill as well since it took two shots.

[Sujimichi]

Why’d you change your mind on mastina suji?

Two reasons. One, I ended up thinking she doesn’t push her last partner like that all day. Two, she had a water-based ability and not so subtly hinted at being a protective. Part of my role had me die if I was targeted by a water-based ability so I figured it basically meant I was macho to her protection. I figured that meant she was town.

[Sujimichi]

Fucking great shot whoever killed Eth0s

Thank you. I’m just glad I changed my mind on mastina.

EspressoPatronum gets credit for the eth0s kill as well since it took two shots.

What made you go for ethos though? Was it just the fact that EP had already primed that one and you wanted to get a kill off or did you logic it out? Good game save regardless cuz I wouldn't have ever thought ethos was scum I don't think

I had three targets to choose from. I originally submitted mastina but then changed to eth0s given what I said above. I didn’t like his play around the TL lynch which is why I chose him over jjh.

[Sujimichi]

What was it that made you think so strongly I was mafia?

[Sujimichi]

mastina, absent my tunnel on you I would appreciate feedback and/or tips on how I can do better.

[Sujimichi]

In hindsight I dont think there was any way for me to back up his claim as either alignment (as it seems like it all hinges on me taking damage which i did not know of).

Part of our role meant that when we shot you the first time all mod messages the next phase would be missing the letters TOAST.

Heat Up: Each night you may target a player, dealing 1 hit of damage to them. A player with 2 hits of damage on them at the end of the night dies.
Toasted (Feedback Disruptor): due to the pain from being heated in a toaster, feedback received the day after a player is hit by "Heat Up" will lack letters of the word TOAST. This happens regardless of damage nullification.
Short Circuit (Conditional Bomb): if you are targeted by a liquid based active ability, your electrical parts get damaged and you blow up, dying and taking out a player of your choice.

[Sujimichi]

I would be interested in that as well. I had fun with this, but would like to be able to submit my own picks.