Large Normal 223 | New Beginnings | GAME OVER

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Rick Dalton

Love you <3

roster is flailing here.
And with that I just made roster 15% more likely to be scum.
A study on mafiascum states that anyone accused of flailing is 15% more likely to be scum.
However, the person accusing someone of flailing is actually made 30% more likely to be scum.
Unfortunately, even though I am 30% more likely to be scum here, I cannot self-vote because I am confirmed Survivor to myself.
So I will have to take the second best option and vote for roster, who is 15% more likely to be scum here:

VOTE: roster

Damn it Hectic. You know as well as I do that I was planning to accuse someone of flailing in my opening post and now it'd just look unoriginal. You know what? I'm going to come right out and accuse YOU of FLAILING. We both know that there's no statistics in the wiki about people who accused someone of flailing AND got accused on flailing so it's going to be interesting to see you forced to stop hiding behind the wiki.

I think I've read about this on the wiki actually.
What he's doing here is

breadcrumbing

. He's essentially giving us clues that he's a survivor, so that when he claims it D4 or something, he can point back to this post.
It's a bit weird to have 2 survivors though, so:

VOTE: profii

Would three make it less weird?

oo 21 players now this is something new. Never been a game with over 15 players before. A stark difference from the days of playig mafia in warring factions side forum for forum games

Ew. I was planning to quote all of Bob's post here then say Ew but just iso him yourself and imagine me sitting there pretending to vomit.

VOTE: Bob

[Hopkirk]

I feel like editing my/a wiki page to include this might be breaking a rule since it would probably get edited out and some people would see it while others wouldn't. Can we pretend that I put the following on a wiki page and linked to it:

'Important note: A recent study jointly authored by Mastina and Radiant Cowbells has proven that 86% of gimmick users were town. 17% of the rest were survivor millers.'

[Hopkirk]

I feel like editing my/a wiki page to include this might be breaking a rule since it would probably get edited out and some people would see it while others wouldn't. Can we pretend that I put the following on a wiki page and linked to it:

'Important note: A recent study jointly authored by Mastina and Radiant Cowbells has proven that 86% of gimmick users were town. 17% of the rest were survivor millers.'

whoops forgot to sign that post, sorry.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

whoops forgot to sign that post, sorry.

-Hop

Please explain

Idk, you'll have to wait until Hopkins gets back.

-Kirk

[Hopkirk]

Is that a reference that I don't get?

[Hopkirk]

'Important note: A recent study jointly authored by Mastina and Radiant Cowbells has proven that 86% of gimmick users were town. 17% of the rest were survivor millers.'

That's 17% of the remaining 14% which is 2.38%.

Hectic is probably town just lying here.
-Hop

Damn it Hectic. You know as well as I do that I was planning to accuse someone of flailing in my opening post and now it'd just look unoriginal. You know what? I'm going to come right out and accuse YOU of FLAILING. We both know that there's no statistics in the wiki about people who accused someone of flailing AND got accused on flailing so it's going to be interesting to see you forced to stop hiding behind the wiki.

Oh no, uhhh, it doesn't mention people who have been accused and are doing the accusing in the table...

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Flailing
IC, please help me out here. Hopkirk is OMGUSing me.

Current reads:
Hop
profii
Elements
Garmr
Bob
Lil Uzi Vert
Kirk

Wow you suck.

-Kirk

[Hopkirk]

I think I've read about this on the wiki actually.
What he's doing here is

breadcrumbing

. He's essentially giving us clues that he's a survivor, so that when he claims it D4 or something, he can point back to this post.
It's a bit weird to have 2 survivors though, so:

VOTE: profii

If you see someone crumbing you don't call it out. Crumbs are hints to attentive town in attempts to communicate something with the chance that a mafia ignorant enough won't see it. Calling out a crumb is like helping mafia rolefish. Completely defeats the purpose.

He clearly said Survivor multiple times in the post. How would anyone miss this. Do you think you sound kind of LAMIST here?

[Hopkirk]

flailing this wifom that buzzword buzzword buzzword blah blah

who made a page 1 list??

and if you keep signing your posts I will treat you like a hydra

You'll ask the mod to modkill me since they're banned in normals, or treat me like a hydra in a good way?

Good to see a lot of these faces in this game.

This ol tv Cowboy hasn’t played with Profii, Tchill, Carcalilly in a minute.

Decent amount of the Boon Babes in here too.

Also, Hectic’s giving me gimmick alt vibes

Why a gimmick 'alt'?

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

more on the terms of "just because you're a hydra doesn't mean it excludes you from being scumy ad"

Doesn't that go without saying though? If I'm 'a regular player pretending to be a hydra' then I'm still just 'a regular player' so why would you treat me 'like a hydra'?

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Hop - Based on meta. As memey as he is in recent town games with me.

We should avoid memes that break site rules/imply breaking site rules like the 'don't talk about ongoing games' one.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Elements - Done nothing wrong and had been active, but his play is oddly regular.

Is this in comparison to my more erratic behaviour in other games?

The wiki tells me that we shouldn't talk about ongoing games.
Your helpful entrance here does parallel your undertale game. So you're a nulltown for me due to paranoia.

Honestly I try not to talk about the undertale game. It was kind of a trainwreck after we realized the omniversal transport deity from that other rolemaddness game on a different site had swapped all the night actions in that game with all of the role actions in our much more simple game. Still don't know why a mod would do that.

-Kirk

[Hopkirk]

*Looks at rules saying you can't play in two games at once under different names and sweats nervously*

[Hopkirk]

Two slots*

[Hopkirk]

Don't like how much he's buddying me. Scumlean.

-Kirk

He's obviously town but kind of dumb? I'm really struggling to explain to him how hydras work.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

I don't Actually Mind hectic pointing out breAdCrumbs. It's Only a Problem if mafia kills tHe person who is doing the breAdcRumming. Don't Care if Losers Aren't In My traIN of thinkinG here, we Can dO this without People like that dragging us down.

Is the flailing thing cumulative? It sounds like we should all just accuse the d1 lynch target of flailing before we hammer (I call the lolhammer btw) to increase their chance of flipping scum.

@Hectic: if anyone gets to L2 and you want to lolL1 I'll lolhammer or vise versa.

[Hopkirk]

@hectic- Trigger happy dayshooter wants to know if you're around if you catch my drift.

[Hopkirk]

"I don't see any sensible option except ending democracy in favor of the Judge" - Hopkirk
"Elements is so good at mafia he caught me before I read my role pm" - Hopkirk
"Tchill is so town I'm reading him as a city" - Hopkirk

If anyone wants sig quotes feel free to ask.

[Hopkirk]

more on the terms of "just because you're a hydra doesn't mean it excludes you from being scumy ad"

I don't get this.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

I'm not joking about disliking Bob btw

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

“When Hectic’s around you have to make the mafia win condition eliminate all threats to your team rather than have a majority. I didn’t believe someone could talk the mafia team into selfvoting on even numbers until I saw Hectic do it with only four words.”

“If I got a guilty on Tchill I wouldn’t actually reveal it. It’s more likely he’ll sub out than you’d be able to get him lynched, and all that’d happen is town loses a cop”

“When I first played with Davesaz I thought he had to be taking deduction enhancing drugs. When I got to know him I realized he was just that good.”

“It’d be less depressing getting destroyed by Billy every game if he didn’t look so dashing doing it”

“I just sheep Carcalilly whenever she votes for me seriously. There’s just no way I’m not getting lynched at that point so why waste time?”

“When Garmr’s around even the mod’s afraid of getting lynched”

“Designing breaking strategies got so much easier after Gamma Emerald joined the site. You used to have to use maths. Now you just need to start with ‘assume Gamma rolled town” and you don’t need any other steps”

“You only need one EeveeLution to catch the entire scumteam. An Army is just unfair”

“Judge Joeseph Dread shouldn’t actually check people as cop. The chance of them being a godfather is actually higher than the chance he’s ever wrong about a read”

“I once saw Kop catch the mafia team without posting just because they didn’t realize he was V/LA. They got so nervous about how he hadn’t already made a post about how he’d caught them that they just conceded”

“Rosterfoster is like the brother I always wanted back when I was growing up. I had these guys from the Russian Mafia after me for four years. They’d have been caught in four minutes if Roster had been around”

“Since the moment I first saw elements play I’ve started referring to OMGUS as OMEUS instead.”

“I only play mafia with people I’m 100% sure will be active since otherwise Rick Dalton can just sub in and instantly catch the scumteam whenever he feels like it”

“Sometimes I think Bob3141 is just the mod playing under a fake account. Nobody’s that good.”

“If Skeelen joins a game you’ve got to label it bastard. They’re so charismatic they just automatically get cult leader as an extra role modifier”

“Sharon Tate’s Finger of Suspicion is stronger than a dayvig”

“You are Great is the reason cops exist. You’d never be able to catch them as mafia otherwise”

“How is there not a rule against playing as well as Fishmonger? We’ve banned posting your role pm and surely that’s less gamebreaking than five minutes of FishMonger”

[Hopkirk]

If you want any of them to be about you then I'm happy to change the names.

[Hopkirk]

How does this knowledge affect your Hectic read?
I liked your entrance.

[Hopkirk]

OH NO i forgot

"If I got scum with Lil Uzi Vert I'd shoot myself night one to re-balance things. It'd be so easy to win if I didn't that it'd make the setup designer look bad"

[Hopkirk]

is hectic an alt

no

he's town then (or rather, not lying about being survivor)

How does this knowledge affect your Hectic read?
I liked your entrance.

because his tone is extremely earnest and passionate about the game. but if it was an old user doing a "haha i'm so new" gimmick then it wouldn't be as genuine

What if he was an experienced mafia player, not necessarily with the experience being from mafiascum, with a 'sordid' history of memeing, and who had a humorous discussion with me last week about the flailing statistics.

[Hopkirk]

Hectic isn't an alt.

[Hopkirk]

I feel incredibly dense because I don't know when to take them seriously or not--

If you want to know for 100% deep dive into Hectic's completed games and follow the right trail then you'll be able to find the answer to this. There's a certain interaction with a certain player with a link to a certain other player in one of those games that will confirm it.

[Hopkirk]

Alternatively, yes it's serious.

[Hopkirk]

some of the stuff he's saying is a meme

I honestly wouldn't be overly surprised if he has a folder titled 'Memes for Mafia' with 10,000 posts on his computer that he picks randomly from pregame, changes the names, then uses them as his first five posts.

Hectic's a hard null for me so far, but I like YAG.

[Hopkirk]

Carcalilly looks like she has legitimate townie frustration.

Hectic/Elements/Hopkirk have a connection of some kind.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

I was just going to say we had a YAG Carca Hopkirk TOWNBLOCK. I like the way you think Hectic. That might mean we need to lynch you before you use your dastardly charisma to infiltrate it and play us like suckers.

[Hopkirk]

I don't like Dredd parking his vote on Hectic, 'fit in memeing', and I think it's too early for those townreads when there's more towny looking stuff going on.

VOTE: Dredd

[Hopkirk]

You have to sort us at some point right? If the mafia think we're funny then they'll keep us around instead of killing us. (On a related note, it was nice knowing you Hectic)

[Hopkirk]

I was just going to say we had a YAG Carca Hopkirk TOWNBLOCK. I like the way you think Hectic. That might mean we need to lynch you before you use your dastardly charisma to infiltrate it and play us like suckers.

Have you ever been wrong about someone in a town block?

According to "M" 's frustrated declarations like 'I hate how this works. It shouldn't work. He just says it and they keep turning out to be right. Probability doesn't work like this. He literally started the game by pointing to people and saying townblock.' Not recently.

[Hopkirk]

@Billy: do you think I'm planning to meme the entire game and never give serious reads?

And as for my comments that I can't read Hectic and Hopkirk, I mean that. The jokey posts come across as though they're not game solving, but they're legit nai, so sorting them is tough. Yet for some reason I decided to torture myself by replacing into this game.

This doesn't sound like a super natural complaint on day one (and I'd voted people/expressed some reads at this point).

[Hopkirk]

@Billy: do you think I'm planning to meme the entire game and never give serious reads?

And as for my comments that I can't read Hectic and Hopkirk, I mean that. The jokey posts come across as though they're not game solving, but they're legit nai, so sorting them is tough. Yet for some reason I decided to torture myself by replacing into this game.

This doesn't sound like a super natural complaint on day one (and I'd voted people/expressed some reads at this point).

Actually just noticed this was a follow up to Billy's earlier post where I don't think I had posted actual content beyond the vote on Bob (who I do slightly dislike here) so not as unreasonable as I thought.

[Hopkirk]

Huh, thought I had the right number there. Sorry about that. I hope this makes up for it.

"If Profii claimed Vanilla Townie when I was mafia I'd concede. If Profii claimed Cop then I'd jump into my bunker and wouldn't resurface for fourty years."

"I once had a dream where Profii was on a different team to me, then I woke up and realized my win rate had been cut in half."

"If the mafia don't kill Profii night one we might as well concede. He'd be confirmed as mafia, but even though it's happened a dozen times so far he's still convinced me it'd be better to selfvote every time!

"It's a good thing nobody else understands how Profii solves games so easily or the fundamental principles of mafia would collapse."

"Whenever I mod a game I could just put Profii in charge of modkills. The way he plays it's never changed the result."

"Honestly Profii shutting his eyes and flinging darts at the playerlist is actually still the best scumhunting technique I've ever seen."

"I always selfvote in lylo if Profii is there. It's more likely that I misread my role pm than that he's mafia."]

"I'd love to wear Profii's skin but I'd just feel so guilty about halving town win rates like that."

"I only beat Profii in a game of mafia and... hey stop laughing."

"I always tell my partners not to kill Profii night one. Obviously everyone wants to kill that kind of play and it takes a while to convince them that no matter what the mod tries they just can't stop Profii reviving three days later."

[Hopkirk]

Kind of hurt Profii didn't thank me for all the nice comments. "I'm almost as disappointed as I feel when I play a game of mafia without town Profii in it and realize I might have to actually scumhunt at some point instead of coasting to an easy win."

I think I gave OUATIH a 4 in the end on IMDB. Maybe a 5.

-Kirk

[Hopkirk]

Ugh, don't remind me about the memecounter from meme mafia. I regret that mechanic already.
I'm a bit busy atm so can you do the memecounter later? Don't think LUV does those for some reason.

Despite the amount of demand from people in this thread, at this time Hectic and I aren't planning to form a stand up comedy duo. We'd also like to deny that we intend to sell resonabely priced tickets (with ample leg room) to our opening show next week.

Don't like JJD doubling down.

Who's this Arnie you mention. Are you hinting something?

[Hopkirk]

I know how to spell reasonably and would like to deny all rumors that I don't. That was just a meme. Mispeelimg words is a meme nowadays.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Hoptic would make an amazing name for a hydra between us.

[Hopkirk]

Ignore Judge. I think I'm bussing him enough here. Would prefer it if he got in on the act since there's no way the entire scumteam would act like this.

Pretty sure Soulreading is something FL just made up. Either that or it's that thing Cowbells has where you sell your soul for enhanced mafia abilities.

[Hopkirk]

Wow, I support Arsenal myself.

[Hopkirk]

Pretty sure Soulreading is something FL just made up. Either that or it's that thing Cowbells has where you sell your soul for enhanced mafia abilities.

Oh, I was wondering why Lil Uzi Vert approached me earlier asking me about some... deal.
I didn't think I needed the extra help though, since I have the wiki by my side.

Don't like JJD doubling down.

What's wrong with him doubling down? Do you dislike the certainty with which he is reading his tone as town?

Upside down question mark

I dislike the certainty because I doubt he could reach a solid read from what Dave had posted (very little) unless Dave has a very low scumrange. Doubling down makes it seem like he's saying it's a town

read

instead of just a town

lean

.

That being said Town shouldn't really want a neutral survivor in the game

Why? I'll be honest:

If I knew for a fact

he was a Survivour I would be all for giving him a joint win with the town. My problem is I don't believe his claim, and I just can't tell if it's town or scum motivated. Right now I'm leaning town, but I guess I am not sold on it just yet.

As for my vote, whatever RVS vote I place I don't need to switch until I have a reason to; i.e. when i;m ready to vote someone scummy for the lynch, or -at the very least- if there's a growing wagon on the person I'm voting that I need to decide if I really want to lynch them or not.

Right now the game is young and most of us are half serious/half fooling around, so I won't bother unvoting my town lean just yet.

For someone who doesn't feel like doing your meta right now, are you saying you don't like starting wagons until late in d1?

I'm town reading hopkirk. I've never experienced them forming a town block as not town

There's no way this can be true. How many games would you say we've player together?

Hectic is giving me S/N concerns.
It's a lot of volume and the posts are not obviously non-game related, but that's going to make it harder to tell if it's mostly non-sequiturs.

I'm assuming that means scum/neutral. If it doesn't then you along with a lot of other people really need to start explaining your acronyms. I get irritating elitist undertones from people doing that.

Terminology cleanup: I use "alt" as a synonym for "not new" as in "the typical relationship between join date and experience does not apply." I realize this is not the same thing as "someone from this site using a different name". I find it useful to distinguish between truly new and experienced, regardless of where the experience comes from.

Hectic has a good deal of experience, especially in irl mafia.

[Hopkirk]

Ok, reading 12 pages for a start is also something new I guess. Will just go on with what stuck to me.

Hectic is hard to read with this memeing behaviour, however I feel a townie mindset is recognizable between all this. I felt particularly in the beginning he tried to sort some players and his votes looked to me like they a had a constructive intention. I guess.

YAG is also giving me kind of positive vibes. More for the development of her thought process on Hectic after him trying to sneak into the town-bloc thing, I feel like scum wouldn't really bother to share this doubt.

Don't like Elements so far. He is one of the top posters here which makes him look quite active but most his posts feel hollow/don't contribute much at all. VOTE: Elements

Don't like this at all.
-The longest part is about Hectic's memery.
-Dislikes Element's semi-memery for being hollow

I don't see how you make this post without mentioning me.

[Hopkirk]

Btw I think Hop's collection of sig quote attempts is honestly one of the towniest things he has posted

Is this a townread or shade.

I was just going to say we had a YAG Carca Hopkirk TOWNBLOCK. I like the way you think Hectic. That might mean we need to lynch you before you use your dastardly charisma to infiltrate it and play us like suckers.

Have you ever been wrong about someone in a town block?

According to "M" 's frustrated declarations like 'I hate how this works. It shouldn't work. He just says it and they keep turning out to be right. Probability doesn't work like this. He literally started the game by pointing to people and saying townblock.' Not recently.

Who is this M

Someone we know irl who has made comments on how 'townblock?' 'townblock!' 'Townblock' (accompanied by knowing nods) really shouldn't have as good of a track record as it does.

@Billy: do you think I'm planning to meme the entire game and never give serious reads?

And as for my comments that I can't read Hectic and Hopkirk, I mean that. The jokey posts come across as though they're not game solving, but they're legit nai, so sorting them is tough. Yet for some reason I decided to torture myself by replacing into this game.

This doesn't sound like a super natural complaint on day one (and I'd voted people/expressed some reads at this point).

Ito be quite honest, I've got very limited experience with both of you. And I'm not entirely sure where the jokes stop and the serious reads begin. I kinda felt like some of the reads may be sarcastic.

Without looking back at my iso to be 100%, I don't think any of my reads weren't serious. I feel like you're grouping my/Hectic here due to the jokey nature when we're playing quite differently in substance.

-Hop

Hop's right

-Kirk

showing my inexperience here, but what the hell is a green pm?

Oooh there's some definite slips here. Carca mentioned green pms. Not sure why. . . Though from post 1 she had a sample of the VT so not sure if that was some sort of test. I think this may be a townslip though.

Surely not knowing what a green pm is would be a scumslip? I don't think it's either, but I don't get why it would be a townslip (please explain)?

I'm liking Carcalilly and youaregreat. I feel like I can kinda lean Hopkirk hectic and gamma town.

help my townblock is getting buddied (I like gamma too)

after skimming Kirk's iso I'm starting to think that my paranoia was pretty unbased. But it still exists and I dont like it.

Wow. It? It? It? I have a name you know.

@Gamma

You remember the game where I rocked it and nailed the entire scum team by day 3 and no one listened to me? Yeah I get the feeling this game won't be like that. I feel as wonky as

FB

. So want to help me find some scum. Because I'm a little lost and I feel like your town.

Can you give it a go now? Nobody expects you to pull it off so there's no shame in being wrong, but imagine how impressed we'd be if you were right.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Ignore Judge. I think I'm bussing him enough here. Would prefer it if he got in on the act since there's no way the entire scumteam would act like this.

Pretty sure Soulreading is something FL just made up. Either that or it's that thing Cowbells has where you sell your soul for enhanced mafia abilities.

Why would I ever make terms up like that...?

I'm 90% sure you've used this in a game we played together and explained it there. The other 10% is that I saw you mentioning it when reading your meta (for a game we were in together) instead.

Was this a serious question and what did you hope to get out of it?

If judge ends up being scum I won't be able to tell until later days.

Howdy everyone. I'm Rick's stunt double, Cliff Booth.

I feel strongly obligated to do this for personal reasons.

VOTE: Hopkirk

@Rick Fuckin Dalton tell me if I'm wrong about this one and I'll back down

Best stunt double a man could ask for.

Hell no, I’ll do you one better.

VOTE: Hopkirk

I felt off the moment he brought up me and making up soul reading apparently.

Maybe our neighbor will join in too

VC

Oh shit no. I'm regrettin' every damn decision I evah made in mah 'hole life if ah just made an enamay of RICK FUCKING DALTON.

Five stars, final offer.

[Hopkirk]

psure those are like signature ideas or smth

Yeah. I've seen a lot of people with those positive comments from other players about how good they are and wanted everyone to have a chance to include one of those

Trying to accurately read Hectic early in the game is never going to work out the way you think it will. Unless he provides me what I ask for, and it actually satisfies me, I'm going to say I've never seen someone pull it off.

Ah, thankfully the hectic whisperer is here. Is the almighty cliff booth a singular or multiple whisperer?

Are you the type of scum hunter that likes to stay tied down and specialize in one account or are do you whisper openly of many accounts on site?

Wait how is he the Hectic whisperer. I've spent about 800 hours in smallish rooms as him, playing mafia/mafia related games most of that time.

@Profii: I'm reading that as Elements put Tchill in the wrong section by accident so actually went Town>Town>Town which seems reasonable.

I'm town reading hopkirk. I've never experienced them forming a town block as not town

There's no way this can be true. How many games would you say we've player together?

A vast quantity. I cannot think of a time you've formed a town block when scum. I definitely remember you forming them when I'm scum and not including me when I've tried to wiggle my way in. Just not you being scum when you've instigated one.

There's no way this can be right can there? Do circles of trust count as townblocks?

[Hopkirk]

I've got fingers of suspicion aimed at Judge, Billy, Bob (I love how this could be one name so far), Skellen right now. I tragically lost the other four finger in a wine in front of me accident a few years back that Hectic has since convinced me was a legit accident. I might have forgotten one or two other people I was suspicious off so if I have can you do the fair thing and scumslip a bit to remind me?

Does Eevee usually play all casual like this?

What do you mean by 'loose with Tchill'? I feel like Tchill's posted enough it's not unreasonable for someone to townread him and that's all Elements seems to have done.

-Kirk

[Hopkirk]

Hectic is currently playing in line with the irl towntell I have on him but idk if it works online. He's had one scumgame (offsite) where a brief skim doesn't show it come up and he does play in line with it in a towngame (offsite) that finished a couple of weeks ago.

@Hectic: just had a look and you started your first scumgame with a 'hey'. Tragic mistake really.
Personally I started mine with 'Has' but I was a SK and idk if that tell works on SKs as well as mafia.

[Hopkirk]

A quick search of my name and the times I've used the word 'townblock' on mafiascum indicates I've only said I have a townblock twice and I was town both times (town won too).
I definitely say it a lot more nowadays though since it's a meme.

[Hopkirk]

He hasn't even self-voted for himself, let alone claimed serial killer yet.

As soon as there's some form of evidence pointing to the existence of a serial killer I will do so. Until then I can't be sure if my claim would be truthful.

I think you're forgetting this.

Day 1 Begins!

BTW, forgot to mention THERE IS A SERIAL KILLER IN THIS GAME. Now just WATER on EARTH are you going to do if they FIRE at you tonight? You'd WIND up dead!

VC 1.00

Not Voting: Kop, Billy Pilgrim, Cliff Booth, Rick Dalton, Sharon Tate, Hectic, EeveeLution Army, Gamma Emerald, Judge Joseph Dredd, Elements, Fish Monger, Hopkirk, rosterfoster, Carcalilly, Garmr, Tchill13, davesaz, profii, bob3141, Skellen, YOUAREGREAT

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-09-20 07:28:35)

[Hopkirk]

My theory was that since water was the only word there used incorrectly it's a red herring.
That leaves Earth Fire and Wind.
This game is set in September.
Coincidence?

-Kirk

[Hopkirk]

uh, can you prove you're town so i don't have to suspect you?

[Hopkirk]

^upon a quick iso

you're definitely missing something, either a large obvious piece of text or a joke involving the elements and a serial killer.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

I like how half of the game is going 'Hectic/Hopkirk are making a lot of jokes and they're both really funny people' while the other half are treating everything we say as completely serious (see Billy/Profii above).

[Hopkirk]

No point voting Elements since he’s obviously getting modkilled for that horrific, unprovoked, and untrue attack on Tchill’s (very cool) name. While we’re on the subject his avatar has good hair too.
@Judge: do you count extra judicial streaming as ‘breaking the law’?

after skimming Kirk's iso I'm starting to think that my paranoia was pretty unbased. But it still exists and I dont like it.

Wow. It? It? It? I have a name you know.

Oh no no I was referring to not liking my own paranoia, not you!! You're lovely hop

Try not to get pocketed. Try not to get pocketed. Try not to get...

gamma!! who should I vote?

Probably Billy or Tchill, and btw I'll take this tome to explain why. I feel like this game is essentially in a protracted RVS like state, and these two feel out of their element in it. Scum are noted to have trouble fitting in during RVS so I think these two are scummy as such.

VOTE: Billy Pilgrim

I was thinking about that a bit. How are you thinking scum would act in a heavily jokey environment (when they've seen a fair few townreads coming out of it). Join in, lurk, or post like normal?

[Hopkirk]

Hectic your idea of putting serious thoughts in a different colour didn’t work out well for me. I literally can’t read the important part of what I just posted.

Just looking through the roll list and sorting people into 1 of three categories this is what I come up with

Town - Cliff, Rick, Hectic, Eevee, Gamma, Hop, carca, profii
Null - Kop, Billy, Fish, garmr, dave, bob, skellen, youare
Scum - Sharon, JJD, roster, Tchill

Idk why Tchill is in the scum bit there. Should be in the town. Probably because I don't like your name

Umm is this strictly based on names?

I don't think that's a scumslip. I'm assumed green PM to mean a town PM, I don't think the colour of the PM is important, and I think Carca was just assuming green=town for the way she used it.

Basically, I think the use of 'green' wasn't in a literal sense of the role PM being

green

.

Yeah, I know what she meant, but she said green. I noticed right off the bat that my town pm was white. And that was unique, because usually they're green. So if I was gonna say I thought someone was town, I'd have said that and wouldn't have said they got a green pm, because I know that in this game they didn't get a green pm, even though usually it would have been green. The whole point of a slip is that it's a mistake that shows allignment. I think that in this game not knowing that the town pm was white is a slip.

I definitely didn't take in the color of the role pm.
Don't think this qualifies as a slipscum since if we've got uncolored role pms then there's no chance the scum got red in their role pms (getting uncoloured too) so they'd also have noticed right? Think the townslip part holds merit though.

pffft elements I might be starting to agree with you on the jjd thing for a different reason

Stay focused. A reputable Judge like myself would NEVER break the LAW. I ENFORCE the law. I AM THE LAW.

I'm agreeing with whomever said JJD is hiding behind his gimmick to not play the game

Are you saying you don't think Judge has any content and you're disliking them based on that? I don't agree with that and it seems like there's other players you should be but aren't going after in that scenario.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

On a quick review turns out Judge doesn't actually have as much content as I thought I remembered and is hiding behind his gimmick.

And so is davesaz

profii & Dalton are town leans pending further evaluation

why is daveaz town? i haven't seen alignment tells from him yet

I'm good at reading his tone. And if you are going to wait for alignment tells from davesaz you would probably have to wait for 3-4 gamedays to get a read on him.

Thought Judge had more reads. Turns out I just disliked all of the ones he posted.

@Tchill: what do you think about JJD putting a very early 'tone' townread on 3/4 of the people you mentioned are strong town players then committing to it further?

That being said Town shouldn't really want a neutral survivor in the game

Why? I'll be honest:

If I knew for a fact

he was a Survivour I would be all for giving him a joint win with the town. My problem is I don't believe his claim, and I just can't tell if it's town or scum motivated. Right now I'm leaning town, but I guess I am not sold on it just yet.

As for my vote, whatever RVS vote I place I don't need to switch until I have a reason to; i.e. when i;m ready to vote someone scummy for the lynch, or -at the very least- if there's a growing wagon on the person I'm voting that I need to decide if I really want to lynch them or not.

Right now the game is young and most of us are half serious/half fooling around, so I won't bother unvoting my town lean just yet.

Have you taken the obvious and immediate step that would quickly resolve your problem with Hectic? I feel like that'd be the town thing for you to do here.

-Kirk

[Hopkirk]

@Gamma - I agree that I'm probably having trouble working my way into this game. It's ALOT larger than I'm used to, and it's insanely active. I think games been up for 36 hours and we're on page 22 already. So I'll be along.

Pedit: I'm not playing devil's advocate. My pm jumped out at me this time, because I'm used to them being green or red. Not sure why that wasn't noticeable for others, but it seems like everyone's letting this slide, and your play felt like you were sorting. That felt like the first scummy thing I could see, so now I'm left with nothing.

UNVOTE: Carcalilly

Wait why didn't you vote me here. Carcalilly using 'green pm' to mean town makes sense, but I clearly didn't realize there wasn't colour in the pm- as you mentioned earlier.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Does this remain intact with strength? Have anyone else in that pool?

You, dave & profii. Oh, and "Hopk", but I still have a minor "irk" to it.

Did your read on Rick change or did you just miss it out from the list here?

People voting judge look like people that want to stay busy by voting an active player that's not been talked about as far as widely town read goes.

Why are ppl voting judge? I haven't seen anything from them scummy.

Do people really not think skellen or YOUAREGREAT are scummy?

I think Skellen is scummy.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

To be fair, there is a sample pm

Not the first game that i'd have played where people didn't read the introductory posts.

I've never read the sample VT town role pm on the first page as town.

[Hopkirk]

Scum who noticed role pms weren't the normal colour would absolutely check the sample pm. Probably more likely they'd notice it with X of them and a PT.

@Prof: Can you explain your reason not to explain the townslip now?

-Kirk

[Hopkirk]

Have you taken the obvious and immediate step that would quickly resolve your problem with Hectic? I feel like that'd be the town thing for you to do here.

What problem?

Meta. For example, in his first newbie he claims town roleblocker knowing there's only a scum roleblocker as an option in the game. He has a history of fakeclaims like that.

Did your read on Rick change or did you just miss it out from the list here?

She asked about "that pool".. that specific pool.. the one where I have a strong TRs in. Risk is a Town read, yes.. but not as strong. How stupid do you think I am to expect me to have a strong TR on FL 48 hours in??

So I mentioned a couple of times that I'm voting you for having such an early townread on people including FL like you said you did so...

[Hopkirk]

Why? I'll be honest: If I knew for a fact he was a Survivour I would be all for giving him a joint win with the town. My problem is I don't believe his claim, and I just can't tell if it's town or scum motivated. Right now I'm leaning town, but I guess I am not sold on it just yet.

Does him claiming non existent roles in previous games change your read of this?
He's said irl he intended to do that as either alignment in that game.

[Hopkirk]

Why? I'll be honest: If I knew for a fact he was a Survivour I would be all for giving him a joint win with the town. My problem is I don't believe his claim, and I just can't tell if it's town or scum motivated. Right now I'm leaning town, but I guess I am not sold on it just yet.

Does him claiming non existent roles in previous games change your read of this?
He's said irl he intended to do that as either alignment in that game.

Change my read? Why? Why would me knowing he does one thing as either alignment make me not Town lean him on this one? Why would I see it as a scummy move if -as you say- he does it as either alignment, i.e. this specific move is NAI for him?

If he's got a history of doing it (as town) then it's unlikely he's doing it purely from scum motivation so should be at worst NAI rather than 'potentially scum motivated' as you were considering.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Disclaimer: Butch is in NO WAY meant to be offending. It was just put right after "cute" to reaffirm that I'm not doing this thing they call "hitting on someone" and that I did realize your location beforehand. After all, I am not AP. THAT's the guy that would hit on anything that moves, even a pregnant ant.

You know I've got a thing for people who dole out justice in heavy body armor

[Hopkirk]

I'm giving up on the discussion about Hectic we were having btw because one of us is clearly missing the other's perspective (either me assuming you're a lot more on the fence than you were, or you assuming I'm saying you looked very much on the fence and there's no point just shouting at each other.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

JJD, I argued you looked like you weren't sure if it was scum or town indicative since you said you weren't sure if it was S/T (but were leaning town)...

[Hopkirk]

@Billy: I notice you didn’t seem to respond to my argument that if town didn’t get coloured pms then neither did scum, so it’s not possible to ‘townslip’ based on pm colour. Do you still count the ‘townslip’ as a townslip?
@Cliff: If you got a problem with me and you’re feeling too brave to hide behind your buddy Rick like usual then I’m right here.

UNVOTE: Judge

??Kop
??Cliff Booth
??Sharon Tate
??EeveeLution Army
??Fish Monger
??rosterfoster
??Garmr
??bob3141
??Skellen

This is a list of players that are not actually playing this game yet. If any pf them has something to contribute it's better to say it no rather than after a wagon had formed on you.

I went and quickly skimmed your post couldn't find like any scum reads only town reads. Do you think the entire scum read is in this list?

This question feels odd.

VOTE: Judge Joseph Dread

So what is your reason for voting him.

Sorry, did you find nothing to comment on in the 500 posts between where you were at and this?

VOTE: Skellen

-Kirk

[Hopkirk]

UNVOTE: Skellen
VOTE: Garmr

Despite quoting him, I still mixed the names up.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

major slow down huh?

Don't worry, I'll take the blame for this one y'all. I've got work, so haven't been posting as much as over the weekend. Naturally, the less fun atmosphere of the thread, also missing Hectic, has been discouraging to people looking for levity in life.

I'm not sure Hectic does?? For one. In fact, I dunno how well Hopkirk, Hectic, bob, Elements, Billy, YAG, Sharon, ELA or Skellen know Rick Dalton. Some of them may, but I don't know that. Some of them I don't even know myself.

I played with him as a mason for iirc about 7 days where he seemed thoroughly reasonable, in line with my thoughts, and I definitely recall talk of him fakeclaiming at least a couple of time. This was a little over a year ago though so may be thoroughly misrememebered.


Ooh Bob can be town. I’m a fan of that tone. JJD can have a townread too. I’m a fan of the frustration.

@Garmar: odd as in disingenuous. I definitely didn’t get the impression JJD was saying ‘all of the scum are in this playerlist’ when he was pointing out inactive players. Your approach to that felt oddly aggressive given your lack of prior aggression. It feels like an odd choice to pick that post as one to pick apart with follow ups (who is the deep wolf) unless you were trying to pressure JJD into trying to overjustify his reads list (which I can see as townie) but that doesn’t really make sense since it was about inactives. What were you thoughts on Element’s reads list?

Not a massive fan of Element’s latest posting. It feels like he’s ran out of things to comment on and has started to move to more fluffy stuff.

@Rick: What’s your current read on Billy. If you have no clue where scum is are you going to mention what you disliked about me and how your read progressed there?

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

I'm not sure how I feel about Dave or Profii.

VOTE: Billy

[Hopkirk]

I think despite the fact I'm going for townreads, I've listed four-five people I'm currently suspicious off so that's on odd question. Do you never vote on something recent that pings you when you're ready to change your current vote?

Not sure what you're implying with 'Then are you actually paying attention to judge dreads posts?' I've definitely posted a lot about JJD/had a fun little wagon.

[Hopkirk]

Hopkirk here. I know I wasn't able to post yesterday. If you want to know why then click on my name. To make up for it I'm going to be making not 7, not 16, but 30 posts today, whether they have any valuable content in them or not!

I think despite the fact I'm going for townreads, I've listed four-five people I'm currently suspicious off so that's on odd question. Do you never vote on something recent that pings you when you're ready to change your current vote?

Not sure what you're implying with 'Then are you actually paying attention to judge dreads posts?' I've definitely posted a lot about JJD/had a fun little wagon.

Think that's a dodge there. Your suspicious over a odd reason right why are you trying to paint my actions as scummy then? It seems like your reaching.

Btw I'm implying that if you didn't get the impression he was town reading a majority of the active players you didn't pay close attention to JJD since I got that from a skim and the fact I said that and JJD said he thought one was deep wolfing and the rest were in the scum list means I was some what right.

Posting a lot and actually trying to comprehending things about Judge thoughts are two different things.

You might want to check your chronology there!

JJD didn't mention the word 'deepwolf' until after your question, so it's certainly not something I'd assume beforehand.

762 and 764 certainly aren't as certain as you're projecting here. JJD mentions he'd want to lynch lurkers due to a general anti-lurking stance, and that he thinks (at this stage) there's likely a few scum in the lurkers/low activity players.

I can see he had a lot more townreads than scumreads and can understand why you asked the question. I feel like you're making what he was saying a lot more certain than he said it. Further, I find your response to my question/vote very aggressive/defensive.

[Hopkirk]

Come to think of it, that was a pretty aggressive reaction to a one night vote I posted before going to sleep and changed the next time I was on. Especially given it sounds like you thought I'd misunderstood what you were asking JJD. Either not trying to understand why I was asking that question or automatically assuming the worst/scummy intent.

-Kirk

[Hopkirk]

bob, who's your current vote on and would you be willing to join us on roster?

I think the rooster wagon is just a bad wagon. Cant see any justification for it even gettign to 3 votes let alone 5. Or how you tried to push it 6.

This is a 21 player game. A wagon of 5 is not pressure.

agreed... tbh I'd encourage some wagons, roster or otherwise as that will help the game sort itself out a bit.

Id prefer otherwise tbh. As it stands a roster flip probably wont be very useful anyway. Since partners might have jumped on to bus a flaker. Or he could just be town who got busy.

Anyone know if hes site-gone or just game-gone?

roster has made some posts though so i'd rather we build up a bit of a wagon and when he gets prodded he comes in to a situation where there is a need to deal with stuff rather than just go 'oh yeah hey that guy is probably scum see you in 5 days'

This is a terrible justification of wagoning Roster but would be a good justification for a Cliff wagon. Whether people join this wagon isn't alignment indicative in any well I can tell?
Do you have a problem with those posts or is it basically a random wagon? I feel you/Dave are switching between these two approaches the wagon. @Dave too

I don't like Hectic dropping out like that.
Lots of slots in prod range.
Fake claims are

fun

but don't really help solve.
Setup spec in a closed game before any flips seems pointless at best, and harmful is more likely.

VOTE: rosterfoster seems like a good place to poke, for now.

It is no longer a good place imo,

Also to everyone voting them, if they come back you can always get back on, hell id probably join you if they dont have a good reason.

If rosterslot ends up being scum we have a candidate for partner here?

Are you saying you can't think of any reason that town would have a problem with voting a random inactive?

I'd prefer a wagon to be on someone who can defend themselves. Even if he gets subbed, the sub wont know his reasoning, or why hes gone.

When you say 'won't know his reasoning' what do you mean? I thought you were arguing he hadn't done

anything

yet, so reasons wouldn't need explanation?

My defense of him is purely for altruistic reasons. Id hate to be a sub, subbed into a slot thats almost dead. Wouldn't you?

I thought you said there wouldn't be any pressure on the new sub since the votes have no backing? What sucks about subbing in, I wouldn't treat it as serious votes.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Woah, what's going on here?

According to my memory of the wiki, wagons on people who probably aren't even reading the thread right now are utterly useless. Move your votes from roster to anyone else, people.
Either roster will get replaced or will make a return and we can judge/lynch him then if he continues to actively lurk.

If that's in a wiki (I have my doubts), the entry is waaay too shallow.
Wagons have a purpose beyond their effect on the person being wagoned.

A lynch on an inactive has purpose if it's a scum lynch, and can be worse than useless if it's not. But wagons are most definitely not equal to lynches.

Any other comments on the things that have happened since you posted last?

You know the wiki thing is a gimmick right?. Are you taking it seriously here or joking in response? Can't fully tell from reading this.

Woah, what's going on here?

According to my memory of the wiki, wagons on people who probably aren't even reading the thread right now are utterly useless. Move your votes from roster to anyone else, people.
Either roster will get replaced or will make a return and we can judge/lynch him then if he continues to actively lurk.

Well, according to my memory of the wiki referring to the wiki in every post is becoming silly. It is also a useless move that's unlikely to convince anyone. Finally, roster (pr his replacement) should feel the heat. I am not going to let lurkers lurk any further, and if there's a wagon on a lurker I am going to join it. Right now I believe this is the largest wagon on a lurker,

Are you saying you think the wiki think is alignment indicative? Do you think Hectic expects it to convince anyone of anything?

VOTE: elements
Look! a wagon is beginning to form! and it's on an active player! Quick join it so it has some significance!

Oh, you know we're going to be voting you soon so you vote yourself in a silly looking way to paint anyone who does the same thing as an idiot eh? Well I'm on to your little game.

I mean, seriously.. games are lost because of letting lurkers be and concentrating on the active posters.

Ik, but there's just soooo much resistance to voting roster

That's one more reason why it should be the wagon we continue to push. Why would scum resist a wagon on a lurker? Because they're scum!
Why would TOWN resist a wagon on a lurker? For fear they might be a TPR.
Now why would Scum PUSH a lurker? They either suspect they're a TPR OR they feel it's an easy push.
Why would TOWN push a lurker? Because it's a good way to read other slots and how they react to the push.

So, keep on pushing roster and see who joins and WHY. See who resists and WHY. If roster ever flips you can go back and see who said what and evaluate based on his alignment.

Don't agree at all with most any of these. My alternatives

Why would town push a lurker- they expect to get reads on it (agreed, I will expect to hear from everyone who joined the wagon what they got out of it).
Why wouldn't town push a lurker- they have scumreads they want to push or prefer to interactive with people to develop reads rather than taking a passive role in looking how people react.
Why would scum push a lurker- to avoid producing content/making enemies etc. Mostly to hide/sit on a wagon pretending they're doing something (interested in who can't conclude on what they got out of it after we either have a lynch or have it collapse)
Why wouldn't scum push a lurker- they're doing other stuff trying to look town and deepwolfing.

I'm really unsure how PRs factor into it. Your 'why would scum push' is super weird given only an idiot would be pushing someone with 4 posts, expect it to lead to a lynch and a lynch on a pr specifically.

Further thoughts/feedback/explanations of your thoughts on what I've raised requested.

Continuation from last night

JJD - shouldn't be today's lynch imo

Hectic - I get a vibe from his iso that he is being active for actives sake. I'd say he perhaps lacked direction until this little roster wagon popped up so that's something to consider

Fish monger - thered be a tumble weed gif here if I was clever

Hopkirk is a little bit similar to hectic in his jovial entrance to the game but I get more of a sense that he is trying to convey opinions as the game progressed so I'm ok with that

Roster - come talk to me or the votes stays, y'arr!

Carcalilly - inquisitive enough to be town

Finish this tomorrow I think

I feel like some of this is a bit out of context as sometimes you only see 1 side of a conversation but whatever I'll reassess once I've done them all - not sure if I'm going to come out with a realistic number of slots of concern so we shall se

Is this a townread on me and if so how does that justify a townread?
If it's not a townread then aren't you just pointing out what's happened (IIOA) without forming conclusions and how is that good?
Is the Hectic read a scumlean or just commentary? There may be a follow up to this.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Even through I haven't be vocal in my interactions.


1.I have a town read on judge dread His answer to my query made me feel warm about him. Plus I don't think scum would react the way

2.Laid out a test for gamma i'll find out if his town or scum and I don't need to use any powers to do all it requires is a bit of faith in him it should become obvious latter on. I guess this can apply to Bob in some extent as well. But I forgot he was in the game tilll recently. Through last game and this game bob feels different his more how to do I put it aggressive which makes me feel like his town.

3.I found Hopkirks vote pretty scummy on me I was going to shift over but I thought I would feel them out more. I feel like a town hopkirk wouldn't of disengaged like he did when it wasn't working out so well. But it honestly surprised me he would jump off me. It feels like he was dipping his toys in the water to see if he could get a wagon off instead of actually hunting.

4.I town read Elements now I don't want to go into it because it involves set up speculation.

5. I'm not feeling the "You are great vote" anymore.


Interactionless read.

Well I like caralilly for town but I don't have interactions with them. I hope to change this maybe like day 2 I'm not really in a rush through since I town read them. She pushes the game so I think she vital to the game at the moment as well.

ew
So what makes you think Town-Hopkirk would have stuck on you there? Would scum Hopkirk reasonably expect a wagon after one question and mostly naked vote?

The direct implication of ' see if he could get a wagon off instead of actually hunting.' is why I said ew. Implying I'm not hunting when I've explicitly made clear who I townread and people I'm disliking/looking at is clearly disingenuous.

For you to have missed my scumreads/townreads existing then you must either
A.) have a problem with my other posts
B.) only care about my vote on you and ignore my other posts
C.) not have read my other posts- which I'm infering from some stuff you've said isn't the case.

Eagerly awaiting your reply at the first available opportunity.
Kind regards,
Hopkirk

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Anyone else not a fan of Billy then, or is it just me?

@Eevee: wait what? Surely getting force replaced is absolute a definitive explanation/reason for why someone hasn't done anything. If he gets replaced then by definition you've already got your answer of why he'd done nothing (because he flaked)

-Kirk

[Hopkirk]

He could have had an emergency or device issues. Its not 10p% a flake reason.

So is a flake alignment indicative (beyond the like 5% or whatever difference in flake rates)?
Are device issues alignment indicative?
He hasn't been online^

I'm struggling to see what 'questions' are essential for him to answer that aren't resolved by him being replaced? Can you tell me anything alignment indicative that I'm missing here?

[Hopkirk]

I never said it was alignment indicative?

Why does hearing 'His reasoning for not being here his reasoning for having done nothing.' matter whatsoever then?

[Hopkirk]

I didn't think anyone had asked questions of Rooster. Did I miss any?

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Idk if they did. If they didnt than they have even less reason to be on him.

I kind of got the impression on him people were on him for the sake of having a wagon, with some people being happy about it being a wagon on an inactive. Did you think differently to this.

VOTE: Elements

[Hopkirk]

A few votes have been made on others with reasoning that could easily also be applied to me. That makes me think that maybe people think I'm something that I'm not?

I can dig it.

It took me until earlier today to realize you have no content. Most people don't seem to have realized.
Was it you or Rick who didn't like me?

VOTE: elements
Look! a wagon is beginning to form! and it's on an active player! Quick join it so it has some significance!

Oh, you know we're going to be voting you soon so you vote yourself in a silly looking way to paint anyone who does the same thing as an idiot eh? Well I'm on to your little game.

What are you on about here

Nothing actually scum indicative/important.
Rephrased- Acting dumb while performing x action links performing x action with acting dumb, so makes people more reluctant to perform x actions as they'll think it makes them look dumb.
I do not think this is what you were going for, and have no evidence it applies in mafia games.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

A few votes have been made on others with reasoning that could easily also be applied to me. That makes me think that maybe people think I'm something that I'm not?

Ooh, let me guess. People think you're town but you're not?
VOTE: Cliff Booth

Did you read my other post before this?

This is a terrible justification of wagoning Roster but would be a good justification for a Cliff wagon... @Dave too

BTW that's not just a joke vote. I happen to agree that the reasoning [not scumhunting] applies to you. Prove me wrong.

Separate topic (slightly related).
Someone made a comment that having opinions is scumhunting. It's not. Taking actions to become informed is what I'm looking for.

If you can find this person they're worth a wagon.

-Kirk

[Hopkirk]

I'm down to lynch elements or hopkirk so far. My gut tells me I want to lynch Gamma but that's why I don't want to lynch gamma. I could compromise on kop

Let me guess, you plan to keep saying you dislike me, refusing to say why despite being asked multiple times, and then complain nobody is doing the wagon you want/you didn't want the lynch we got?

VOTE: Cliff

[Hopkirk]

To clarify, Rick is Flavor leaf and I don't know who you are. Is this right?

[Hopkirk]

My thoughts on your read on me/how you've approached this 'game'

You know you don't have to spend close to three hours getting to your point despite not really having an actual plot or point.
There's definitely reads you've got that don't seem to be going anywhere that could have been cut or should have been covered a lot more.
The whole thing with your wife is just a perfect example of this. I was sure you were going somewhere with that and you never really went anywhere with any of it.
Kind of liked the bit where you went into the village, but I liked cult stuff. There was never any real threat there so it really fell down in terms of tension.
You especially don't really feel like you've had any development throughtout the day phase except being a generic tough player stereotype.
Your stuff with Rick was super generic/predictable.
You're really underdeveloped and don't really change throughout the game. The antagonists feel really underdevloped at the moment despite having potential to be interesting.

[Hopkirk]

As far as I can tell you're scumreading me for giving OUATIH a 5/10.
I liked DU/IB/TR/PF though. Gave all of those 8-9s.

[Hopkirk]

I'm only up to 17 of the planned 30 posts and I'm going to go sleep in about ten minutes. I don't think I'm hitting my target am I.

-Kirk

[Hopkirk]

I'll do it tomorrow dad.
(it's funny because Hop's my dad irl)

-Kirk

[Hopkirk]

If you can understand why I said it why did you portray it as scummy earlier?

The reason I'm very aggressive with my response/vote is because your post/vote on me are scummy.

Because when I voted you, I did not understand it.
The original question is null. I dislike your overly aggressive response.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Even through I haven't be vocal in my interactions.


1.I have a town read on judge dread His answer to my query made me feel warm about him. Plus I don't think scum would react the way

2.Laid out a test for gamma i'll find out if his town or scum and I don't need to use any powers to do all it requires is a bit of faith in him it should become obvious latter on. I guess this can apply to Bob in some extent as well. But I forgot he was in the game tilll recently. Through last game and this game bob feels different his more how to do I put it aggressive which makes me feel like his town.

3.I found Hopkirks vote pretty scummy on me I was going to shift over but I thought I would feel them out more. I feel like a town hopkirk wouldn't of disengaged like he did when it wasn't working out so well. But it honestly surprised me he would jump off me. It feels like he was dipping his toys in the water to see if he could get a wagon off instead of actually hunting.

4.I town read Elements now I don't want to go into it because it involves set up speculation.

5. I'm not feeling the "You are great vote" anymore.


Interactionless read.

Well I like caralilly for town but I don't have interactions with them. I hope to change this maybe like day 2 I'm not really in a rush through since I town read them. She pushes the game so I think she vital to the game at the moment as well.

ew
So what makes you think Town-Hopkirk would have stuck on you there? Would scum Hopkirk reasonably expect a wagon after one question and mostly naked vote?

The direct implication of ' see if he could get a wagon off instead of actually hunting.' is why I said ew. Implying I'm not hunting when I've explicitly made clear who I townread and people I'm disliking/looking at is clearly disingenuous.

For you to have missed my scumreads/townreads existing then you must either
A.) have a problem with my other posts
B.) only care about my vote on you and ignore my other posts
C.) not have read my other posts- which I'm infering from some stuff you've said isn't the case.

Eagerly awaiting your reply at the first available opportunity.
Kind regards,
Hopkirk

-Hop

What did you get out of your vote on me then? You just painted something as scummy then left. It was like you were testing waters. If you were town I felt you would of pushed a bit harder to get something concrete as up to that point you gained no new information or anything to change or confirm your read on me; This shows you weren't looking to sort my slot but to push a case.

Also it's B because my point doesn't revolve around other peoples posts and your comments on them. It's focused on that instance. Trying to spread out and say look at what I did with other people doesn't excuse your actions dealing with me.

The case you're claiming to have on me includes this

see if he could get a wagon off instead of actually hunting [/quote as a fairly central point.

Are you saying you don't see a conflict between that, and you revealing that you don't care if I was town/scum hunting elsewhere?

You're arguing at the same time with the conflicting premises:
-I did something INSTEAD of hunting which is what makes it scummy.
-That it's irrelevant whether I was hunting at the time.

[Hopkirk]

Plus, i don’t buy that he’s actually scum. I haven’t been reading too closely, but i feel like he’s getting pushed as scum for NAI reasons.

What are your thoughts on the Rooster wagon? I notice you never weighed in there.
There's also reasons to push Cliff here. He's dodging my questions.

I think my case on hopkirk is better than the cliff wagon.

What are your thoughts on the Rooster wagon? I notice you never weighed in there.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

I think my case on hopkirk is better than the cliff wagon.

Honestly, the cliff wagon probably happened because he pushed Hopkirk.

He got chainsawed somewhere, I imagine.

Refused to explain why he was pushing Hopkirk*

This game is amazing fr. Ppl can disappear and the active ones are punished for playing the game over and over again. It's hysterical.

What do you mean by this? The two biggest wagons are/have been on low activity/content players and most of the most active players seem to be townread by most people?

Something fishy going on between rick / cliff

I don't see it.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Woah, what's going on here?

According to my memory of the wiki, wagons on people who probably aren't even reading the thread right now are utterly useless. Move your votes from roster to anyone else, people.
Either roster will get replaced or will make a return and we can judge/lynch him then if he continues to actively lurk.

the savior has returned to offer his wisdom!!

Ah yes. People often refer to me as Hec "the saviour" tic.
Could someone edit this into my wiki please?

Woah, careful there buddy. If we let just anyone edit the wiki it wouldn't stay the ultimate repository of scumhunting knowledge would it. You're going to need a LOT more permits for that.

I'm going to let you in on a little secret here btw. It's generally pretty discouraged to use the wiki like you're doing. Obviously all of the information in it is perfect, so you'll easily find the scum, which ruins the game for everyone else. You're definitely going to get killed night one, and a lot of people probably think you're a bit of a jerk since using the wiki is considered cheating by like 90% of us. Obviously people don't like to acknowledge this, which is why they're pretending the wiki isn't perfect, but don't be fooled.

---

@Hectic/Carcalilly: I'll want to hear why you like Garmr's read and why you agree/disagree with it. Nobody else weighed in there which is concerning me.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Good news and bad news friends.
The good news is that tomorrow I'll be doing a catch up with the intent of overtaking current-Hopkirk
The bad news is that prod dodging rules require me to do something to advance the game, and I want to catch up before I do anything. With that in mind, Elements, Billy, and let's say Profii are

confirmed scum

to me here.

-Kork

[Hopkirk]

There's also reasons to push Cliff here. He's dodging my questions.

huh

well he was

I'm going to chuck tchill on my scum list for post 1210. I'm starting to think cliff is town judging how the wagon is forming on him. It's like everyone jumped on something surface level scummy because they have been starved of obvious scum.

Don't see any real merit in the cliff wagon either.

agreed

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

@Lil Uzi Vert: can we have more votecounts? Really hard to keep track of the wagons.

[Hopkirk]

besides that I have a little list, in order. town top.

gamma
hectic/hopkirk
garmr
yag/profi
Bob/billy
Jjd
Dalton/Kop
Eevee/Eleme
Cliff
Dave/tchill

I'm aware I haven't explained the lowest end much yet. I'll do that someday.

Why is hectic so high?

Do you not have a strong townread on Hectic like me?

And I'm pretty sure, in plain terms, the self-vote was an attempt to draw attention back to the game during a dry time/standstill.

Well to me it looked more like him trying to make the wagon and the people on it look stupid. It was a gambit, nothing more than that. To say that it was this attempt to breathe life back into the game is BS

And I'm pretty sure, in plain terms, the self-vote was an attempt to draw attention back to the game during a dry time/standstill.

Well to me it looked more like him trying to make the wagon and the people on it look stupid. It was a gambit, nothing more than that. To say that it was this attempt to breathe life back into the game is BS

why are you so close minded?

What I said earlier about your selfvote^

[Hopkirk]

Sup guys

Woah, is that really AaronFrost???
Been wanting to play a game with you for quite a while, sir.
The wiki tells of the most legendary of stories regarding you.

For example:
"This one time, it was just AaronFrost and 3 mafia left. He was just a vanilla townie, but by using his AaronFrost haggling skills, he recieved 2 dayvig shots from the mod. He shot the first 2 scum, and then bluffed the third into conceding. Masterful play."

I think this is one of mine.

I said I would case out my hectic vote but flicking through the ISO again there is just too many lol-posts for me to go through it and do it seriously - however - i still stand by my vote.
Basically I was going through each slot and marking in a spreadsheet if people town or scum lent on any slot, whilst i did that, hectics leans just stood out like a sore thumb for some reason.
When i thought back to my initial skim of the ISO and called it surfacey, i still agreed with that position so i think it's a good vote.

Perhaps I am giving hectic not enough credit because of all the jokes but some of his votes seem to just be following wagons in any direction and no real scum reasons for anything so im ok with it

Stop scumreading Hectic. He's playing his town game.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

why does tchill get to say he isn't gonna put in any effort on day one and no one really cares but I get bullied into having to play day 1

gIVe mE a fuLL rEaDs LisT or i'Ll dAYviG yoU, yOu iNACtiVe

With that in mind, Elements, Billy, and let's say Profii are

confirmed scum

to me here.

Yet you're voting cliff.
How are we "confirmed scum". It's impossible for anyone to be confirmed anything to anyone unless the play saying they have confirmed reads are themselves scum.
And don't say "it was a prodge so I didn't think it through" because that would be a blatant lie. In fact, do say that. Then we can all lynch scum day 1.

The joke you missed- saying 'Let's say' implies that I've only just decided on it in the moment (imagine a pause and an 'eh er,' between the let's say and the name. This is humorous in conjunction with me bolding confirmed scum. The reader is led to infer that I've decided on the scumread at that moment but am 100% sure of it.

The content you missed- I scumread all of this people. Elements/Billy more, which is why I went for 'let's say' on Profii.

The context you missed- I hadn't read the last ten pages (which is what the post was saying) so I didn't change my vote since I intended to catch up today and didn't know how wagons were going.

-Hip

[Hopkirk]

Is it typical for a mod to edit a replacement's name into all of the votecounts that happened before the replacement? I feel like I'm being gaslighted here.

[Hopkirk]

Town: Hectic, Carcalilly, Gamma, JJD, Bob, Garmr, Dave, RFD, Kop/Cliff
Have you posted: Rooster/Sharon Tate/Titus
Various degrees of ew: Elements/Billy Pilgrim/Tchill/AaronFrost/Profii/Eevee/YouAreGreat

VOTE: Elements

-Hopkirk

[Hopkirk]

Can you remind me if you've got a town game I've seen? For your irl game it's neither.

The reader is led to infer that I've decided on the scumread at that moment but am 100% sure of it

I did infer that until I noticed "confirmed scum " was in bold.

Why did you think I said that?
The scum strawman answer here is 'I thought you were 100% sure on those reads and that's suspicious'.

[Hopkirk]

Haven't read that one.
So what's your read list look like now?

[Hopkirk]

Scum - Cliff, Rick, Sharon

?

[Hopkirk]

Is that individually or as a group.

[Hopkirk]

Why did you ask me if i thought this was your town/scum game @Elements?

I don't even remember whom I'm currently voting for. That's how boring this day has become.

I can picture Eelements being the "scummy townie" of the game. I wish I could be more confident on this, but it's just a feeling, no more.

Right now I want to vote between Sharon Tate & AaronFrost. Is there a wagon on either of them?

Is that a scumread, or just want to wagon low activity players?

-Hip

[Hopkirk]

Who are you on again Elements? I don't feel like looking.

Lmao somebody just invest me instead of asking Ted bundy here to do what he does best.

I'm not sure I believe that sk claim anyway. I think elements just hates d1 and does stupid things during d1 because of it.

Would it have killed you to use Mason instead of Bundy here? Cliff is going to be so disappointed.

-Kork

[Hopkirk]

Manson*

[Hopkirk]

What did/are you get/getting out of that vote @Elements.

Manson is more thematic for this game.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

So I'm assuming you read Cliff worse after it based on your readslist there. Can you point out why?

[Hopkirk]

When I needed to read 10 pages to catch up?

[Hopkirk]

That's a shockingly similar reads list you've got to mine Dave. I like the way you think.
What's giving you a townread on Profii?

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Rick thoughts on my claim pls

Not surprised, there was a weird circular town read going on so I did wonder when I was flicking through

Anyone else you wouldn't be surprised is in that mason group?

[Hopkirk]

So Rick and Gamma are both still town. I read 6 pages for nothing.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Woah, I thought it was just a few of us. Starting to look like role madness with all of us detectives here.

[Hopkirk]

We could always VOTE: Tchill and see what happens.

VCA is getting harder and harder. Tried I think 3 days ago but mod never responded to the VC requested then.

[Hopkirk]

If anyone is missing Hectic let me know and I'll ask the mod if I can post with out 'Hoptic' hydra account.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

7 people prodded/due to be prodded/being replaced/VLA = 14 around (1-2 others prod dodging)
11 required to lynch
2 days to deadline.

I'm not liking the looks of this.

That is what I was expecting Elements would claim when I unvoted.

Can we start a wagon?

[Hopkirk]

@LUV: will there be a deadline freeze or extension while you're looking for a replacement for Rooster? He was due to be replaced a week ago (given not posting for the last 10 days)

[Hopkirk]

hello

oh no

[Hopkirk]

Can I interest you in a Tchill wagon?

[Hopkirk]

Aaron is also somewhere I could see myself voting.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Aaron

[Hopkirk]

Bet you wished you joined the Tchill wagon now huh. Shame there isn't time for another wagon isn't it.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

@Carcalilly: I don't think we get much of anything out of a compromise wagon on Cliff either?

if Tchill is scum and we don't lynch him today I want to wring as much out of him as I can tomorrow, given I'm not fucking dead

If you don't then I'll take up the cause. What are they gonna do, kill all of us? *laughs nervously*

skellen had two (2) posts and if you can tell she was scum off of that alone then hats off to you, you're a mafia God, but I don't believe that's the case here.

I didn't like those 2 posts and was waiting for her to come back before I voted her for a good 2 irl days.

Bet you wished you joined the Tchill wagon now huh. Shame there isn't time for another wagon isn't it.

-Hop

Why are we assuming this? LUV basically said we were gonna get an extension. And regardless we're at 36 hours.

This was in response to Aaron who said he wasn't voting Tchill because he didn't think we had time for another wagon.

-Hip

[Hopkirk]

Snarky?

I'd probably be okay with a Tchill wagon too, but there just isn't enough time for that to happen.

[Hopkirk]

You know my grandfather used to go on long angry rants about the masons.

[Hopkirk]

Not claiming macho I could buy since there's no reason to claim it in the initial claim.

Although if you don't know what macho did then that wouldn't apply. Not sure why you didn't look it up.

More puzzling is the extra modifier you're keeping secret that makes it possibly one shot. Please reveal that right now.

vote elements

[Hopkirk]

f elements flips scum and not scum watcher then he probably doesn't have experienced partners obline

[Hopkirk]

So in your own words....

[Hopkirk]

I'm reading element's post where he mentioned the one shot bit there as stalling because he wanted a better fakeclaim.

Quoting your role pm isn't allowed.
Using your own words to describe it is.
There's going to be something in there if it's real and Elements can clearly point to it in some way and explain why it'd make him wonder if one shot.

Hop

[Hopkirk]

Per rules 'You may paraphrase'.
Are you both implying you don't think rewording is ok

[Hopkirk]

Surely you can narrow it down.
Does it mention 'one' anywhere, does it mention something that happens if a condition is met, does it imply something through flavour?

[Hopkirk]

Fairly sure we had a hammer at some point just now.
G'night.

-Hopkirk

[Hopkirk]

Wow, the mod was online on another site while we were waiting for the Elements flip. I feel very betrayed and think modkilling a scum is the only way to make it up to us. Don't make me reveal which site lil!

VOTE: aaron

I'm doing this or tchill today.

One day a policy lynch will hit scum. Can I insult Elements playstyle if by some weird coincidence I see him around?

Sorry to hear about your terminal illness carcalilly. Kind of offended.

-kork

[Hopkirk]

It should have. Shame we had to policy lynch.

VOTE: tchill

[Hopkirk]

What is it with prs in this game claiming. Really feeling the pressure to claim here.

-hop

[Hopkirk]

And rooster looked like a rather lazy bandwagon. As his lack of posting wasnt evidance that could be used for him being scum. As if anyone checked his games they could tell he doesnt lurk as scum.

Naked votes yes but not lurking.

And if a player isnt posting he clearly aint playing

This logic only works if you assume he subbed out without any legit reason. Did you check whether he's super disengaged/subs out as town? Doesn't hold up and I don't see why you TR the slot.

I am not a fan of Bob. He initially voted for Elements for reasons 'setup spec'ing very early' etc

He then left the wagon, but came back when the lynch actually went through and when he put his vote on he said he didn't believe the macho/one shot claim.

My concern is that if I am casing a slot for being scummy I'd be like "woah guys I'm voting elements because he was setup speccing over in this post, plus now look at this macho claim it's gotta be BS" - i.e. case the whole ISO for a scum evidence - Bob didnt mention his initial setup spec concern when he votes due to his claim concern, which makes me believe he is looking for a reason to be on the wagon rather than actual scum hunting properly.

VOTE: Bob3141

Obviously I will hear him out but I'm just going to vote there for now.

I've looked at Tchill's ISO and someone is going to have to take me through the case here, he doesn't come across super town of the players I've looked at so far but I dont think he is the most scummy either at this point unless I've missed something of course.

That seems pretty reachy to me. Are you going to pick out everyone that voted for elements early in day one. By the time elementis made his watcher claim i was already sorting him as town. With me even calling out those who continued to push him.

Wasn't with till after his one shot macho watcher claim plus himself voting that made me reluctantly vote for him.

Straight watcher i believed. Macho watcher could be possible role but no townie should have mentioned the macho bit. Added to all that self voting. It just looked bad for town

Oneshot talk tipped me over the edge when it came to voting for him. I cant see why he mentioned that as he flipped just a macho watcher. I wonder if he was responding to once

per a night

---

I find it odd you overlook my scum hunting aswell. Did you not think kop has been scummy this game. Has he not done anything in your opinion to justify my vote on him before the wtacher saga. For you to think that doesnt even count as scum hunting.

He has yet to answer any of my points i think

This is basically the same as me. Leaned town just before the watcher claim, scumlean on the 'I can't paraphrase the thing that suggests it's one shot' then policy lynch on the self vote.


Also @Elements: you could have really easily paraphased that 'it says once per game but doesn't say one shot' would be fine right?

[Hopkirk]

why are all of my townreads claiming prs this early? That's over half of the people I townread d1.

not a fan of: Cliff, Hop, gobble

Meh: rick, JJD

Please sign my autograph: Profii, Carca, Dave

(yeah, gonna do reads list with schticks from now on)

what changed for you

[Hopkirk]

Wow, the mod was online on another site while we were waiting for the Elements flip. I feel very betrayed and think modkilling a scum is the only way to make it up to us. Don't make me reveal which site lil!

VOTE: aaron

I'm doing this or tchill today.

One day a policy lynch will hit scum. Can I insult Elements playstyle if by some weird coincidence I see him around?

Sorry to hear about your terminal illness carcalilly. Kind of offended.

-kork

It should have. Shame we had to policy lynch.

VOTE: tchill

Not really a fan of these posts from Hopkirk here. Trying to justify the Elements lynch by using the phrase "policy lynch" feels like a strange narrative to push.

VOTE: Hopkirk

No comment on bob thinking the same thing but longer?

Elements amendments to his pr claim WERE ACTUALLY fake. He could have summarised it/explained it in different words and he said he couldn't. He then self voted/refused to do anything else/explain himself. That's either caught scum, or town that should be policy lynched for trying to make their town game look scummy for future advantage, or town who doesn't care whatsoever. What would you call it?

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

The rest of y’all can eat it, gimme my flask

The hell am i not on the town list with the rest of the obvtown

[Hopkirk]

I can’t tell elements he was anti-town irl so I have to judge him on here and hope he’s still reading.

I can vouch for Hectic's location between the hours of ten and one. Beyond that I'm surprised he hasn't posted yet. I’m looking forward to his logically (and morally) consistent explanation.
Luckily the pr mess only involves my townreads so I’m not changing anything.

Aaron is chainsawing his friend Tchill as we expected.

I wasn’t actually on the Elements wagon (unless the mod missed my vote, then I voted after he was lynched) and I was trying to start a counterwagon after the Watcher claim when the wagon was keeping its momentum. @Aaron: is scumhop consistent with this, and with me saying afterwards that his vote on Element’s was effectively a policy vote for someone declaring they’d do nothing except self vote?

@Bob: your percentages on the Rooster wagon aren’t any better than the chance of a randomly picked player being scum and I’m not totally sure why you’re saying there must be x scum on the wagon, instead of ‘x is acted scummy in relation to the wagon/in the way they voted on the wagon’.

Tchill looked fine with me until I started pushing him.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Welcome back Hectic. I'm glad to see you've branched out into other wikis. Perhaps I can interest you in another one?

https://wikis.fandom.com/wiki/The_Wiki_Wiki

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

We should solve the game together sometime. I'm sure we're thinking along the same lines here.
Anyone mind if we start just posting from our hydra account and not signing the posts?

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

We should solve the game together sometime. I'm sure we're thinking along the same lines here.
Anyone mind if we start just posting from our hydra account and not signing the posts?

-Hop

I don't mind.

-Tex

Can i request this half of your hydra post in

larger

text? Everything is bigger in Texas.

I'll probably need to check with the mod whether my hyrda can be part of another hydra but I'm sure it'll be fine. Don't think LUV is that harsh of a mod that they'd have a problem with it.

-Kirk

[Hopkirk]

Hey Carcalilly, can you put your IC status to good use and vote Tchill, Aaron, or Billy?

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

They're part of the scumteam right?
They're independently scumreads of mine. Billy jumped off Tchill at the first big wagon with fairly bad justification after voting onto it when it was small. Aaron was pushing against it and against me for pushing it. Now they're both on the counterwagon- and if Eevee is town then that's probably the easiest mislynch to push right now since they aren't really posting content.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

I don't want you to eat rope today since it's worth testing that theory, and Aaron/Tchill were bigger independent scumreads than you today. I've voted/ want to lynch Tchill/Aaron today.

[Hopkirk]

Looks like Tex and Aaron are straight up scumclaiming.

Either that or very selectively reading and misrepresenting.

I said I have 3 scumreads. These are the three people I'd vote for today. You're presenting me saying I'd prefer to vote for tchill (who I'm voting now) and Aaron (who I voted earlier) as saying I backtracked. I'd prefer to vote Billy over anyone except Tchill/Aaron as is absolutely clear from my words and vote history. Texcat, I'd like you to reread then substantially expand on what you thought I meant because I'm struggling to see how town could reach that conclusion legitimately.

[Hopkirk]

Things I've said that Aaron is conveniently ignoring

- I've had the three of them in my scumreads D1 too. I said they were all independently scummy and now they've got groupscum points.

Aaron is suggesting I'm only scumreading them as a group.

- I'm voting Tchill/said earlier I'd vote Aaron too. I didn't change my vote to Billy.

Aaron is implying I want to start a billy wagon. The obvious inference from what I said is that Billy is my third preference vote. Aaron is suggesting both that me not voting Billy is a scummy backtrack, and suggesting at the same time that I was trying to push Billy. Can't have it both ways. Definitely misrepresenting the read.

[Hopkirk]

Apologies. Busy until Friday, but I will catchup then for 100% sure.
In the meantime, I'll read up on the history of the Mongolian and Byazantine Empires. This will make sense later.

I can confirm this. I'll add that I'm also busy which Hectic can confirm.

-Kork

[Hopkirk]

Garmar is pretty blatantly town and is a dumb wagon.

[Hopkirk]

UNVOTE: Tchill

Not sure if I buy it, but it gets resolved after enough flips.

[Hopkirk]

I could give education/advice on how to properly use a voyeur as town. Suffice it to say that the claimed result wasn't it.
I could also give advice on how to fakeclaim things to protect a mason, and that wasn't it either.

Team scum would have partners to give advice. Isn't it possible they would try to exploit a team member's meta to try to pass doctor phishing off as silly townie?

@Tchill have you explained Hopkirk? If not, can you?

basically that he's just attacking avenues that dont make sense. I'd expect much more from hop than ive seen. very surprised that he was pushing me (when im inactive i tend to make reads based on my slot objectively. i see my slot as an inactive slot, not my own slot. So this isnt OMGUS. This is basing hops interactions on an inactive slot)

After 150 posts I prefer to call it 'active lurking' to 'inactive'.

[Hopkirk]

infact you did even give your reasoning behind your first post. Your vote on me.

Even when pressed in your post 2123 you only said you had me and few others as scum at glance. But nothing backing it up. no why, no nothing.

You even havnt tried to scum hunt at all since you joined. How mnay players have you actualy tried to interact with

Are you sure this is a scumtell? I'm fairly certain it's not.

[Hopkirk]

Hectic, Bob, and Garmar are superobv town.
I'm going to reread some stuff.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Gobbledygook

[Hopkirk]

How should I feel about Profii/Dave/Gobble/Kop?

[Hopkirk]

Superobvtowning: Hectic, Carcalilly, Bob, Garmr
Obvtowning: JJD, Cliff, Gamma, Rick, Billy

Seems about right?

[Hopkirk]

Tex looks town if Tchill is. I'm going to assume he is for now. Hey Tchill, were your crumbs intentional or not?

[Hopkirk]

That leaves to look at:
Kop
Alonzo
EeveeLution Army
Titus
gobbledygook
davesaz
profii
AaronFrost

Give me a hand with this later Hectic.

[Hopkirk]

May I request that scum hop on my wagon please? It would make it easier for me to sort as opposed to steering away and let the town try to push a mislynch that's not going to happen

Can you people stop using 'Hop' as a negative term.

How do the automated vote counters work. Can anyone add them?

[Hopkirk]

Why's there still an eevee wagon going on.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

I can't think of a single sentence, opinion, or action I'm 100% sure came from Eevee.
Is it a policy lynch?

[Hopkirk]

I thought it was more like 200.

[Hopkirk]

Ok lets do this then

VOTE: AAron

unless you disapprove Hectic?

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

What makes it too big a townlist? 3 are claims/strong meta. That leaves 6 townreads which I'm surprised you'd find unreasonable.
I assume people are reading obvtown as 'townread'.

What's your townlist look like.

[Hopkirk]

Why you put a lot of people in your "would lynch" but don't case any of them?

Can you point out where I said 'would lynch'.

[Hopkirk]

What makes it too big a townlist? 3 are claims/strong meta. That leaves 6 townreads which I'm surprised you'd find unreasonable.
I assume people are reading obvtown as 'townread'.

What's your townlist look like.

To me, "obvtown" is much stronger than "townread"

So you assumed 'hopkirk thinks 11 people are almost confirmed town and it's not weird at all he has no regular townreads' instead of the more obvious 'hopkirk is calling his townreads obtown?'

First category should legit be obvious town. Second category is regular townreads.

Interested in your thought process behind that
Also interested in the reads list you've notable excluded despite having problems with mine

Hopkirk dances on vanity wagons a lot.

There's one wagon. You trying to shade me for not being on it?

Obvtown is way more than just a town read. I have lots of town reads of varying strength but practically no obvtown. In fact Carcalilly is probably the only one I'd call that.

I'm interpreting your votes as would lynch, given there is nothing more behind them. It's fair to ask where you said that, and I don't remember you using those words.
Why don't you actually case any of them?

- did it not strike you as odd that 'hopkirk has super obv town and obv town reads but no regular townreads'? If you're trying to understand my thought process then you're making odd assumptions here rather than thinking 'what does hipkirk mean'.

-that's a scumpool. Not a lynch pool.

-if I case someone then I'll end up death tunneling them. I'll probably look through you and/or Aaron tonight are write more stuff.

[Hopkirk]

@proffi- playing different to his town game, his scum game, or both?

[Hopkirk]

Do you want to do Aaron or Dave?

[Hopkirk]

the comparison is that Elements was the easiest lynch yesterday

[Hopkirk]

Obvtown is way more than just a town read. I have lots of town reads of varying strength but practically no obvtown. In fact Carcalilly is probably the only one I'd call that.

I'm interpreting your votes as would lynch, given there is nothing more behind them. It's fair to ask where you said that, and I don't remember you using those words.
Why don't you actually case any of them?

- did it not strike you as odd that 'hopkirk has super obv town and obv town reads but no regular townreads'? If you're trying to understand my thought process then you're making odd assumptions here rather than thinking 'what does hipkirk mean'.

Of course it stuck me as odd, that's why I commented. I don't try to outguess people or assume the odd things they post are anything else but odd. I say what I think about them and see how they respond. The response is what tells me if the odd things are genuine or not.

Followup question: what purpose does putting obv on all your townreads serve? How does that help us understand you?

-that's a scumpool. Not a lynch pool.

I already covered that. But here's a followup question -- is your lynch pool not the same as your scum pool? I'd be surprised if it's not.

-if I case someone then I'll end up death tunneling them. I'll probably look through you and/or Aaron tonight are write more stuff.

You could start by giving an actual concrete reason for any of your reads. I'm not all that picky. It doesn't need to be elaborate. Just enough to show that you're actually thinking these things and not just making up a list that looks nice.

There's clearly no chance someone has 11 obvtown and no regular townreads. You're trying to overjustify that you thought that was 100% genuine when you know perfectly well that at least half of my posts in this game have at least some kind of joke in them. Do you think I'm actually a hydra too?

-Hop

My lynchpool would be 2-4 of those people narrowed down since it includes semi-nulls.

I could look at Aaron.

[Hopkirk]

I'm not explaining why Hectic is super obvlocktown since he'll just get nightkilled.
When one of us gets nightkilled locktown the other one.
If neither of us get nightkilled we get an extra pair of masons in lylo.

[Hopkirk]

He went V/La for like 2 weeks and prod dodged after he got back. Looks like he's returning

[Hopkirk]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ct[]=33131
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=925
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ct[]=33131

I'm going to go with a nice townread on Aaron actually.

1950- scumgame finishing the same time this started. Aaron doesn't really give a read on anyone for 200 posts. Barely townreads anyone, scumreads aren't particulrly justified.
1949- Catch up is very similar to this game. Gives a lot of reads early on. Changes reads (two townreads for most of the game flip to scumreads)
1954- frequent reads

This game- catch up mirrors thought process in 1949. Mind changes frequently enough (excuse the formatting). Not afraid to give reads. The previous scumtopic (1950) that ended when this started makes me think Aaron wouldn't go into this as confidently as he did with the reads list. Some of the Ate earlier sounds legitimate.

Kop Town lean
Billy Slight Town
Cliff Null
Rick Scum Lean Votes (1465)
Sharon/Alonzo Null
Hectic Town lean 2378 scumreads when disappears
Eevee Scum lean 2586 votes
Gamme Town lean
Dredd Town
Elements Null 1467 aware of E's meta 1717 Elements or no lynch 1806 voted as didn't believe claim 2302 'typical elements'
Titus Null
Hopkirk Town lean 2214 dislikes PL
Rooster/GBG Null
Carcalilly Town
Garmr Null
Tchill Slight scum 1718 okay with Tchill lynch 2065 moves to null town
Dave Strong town
Profii Town
Bob Null 2378 scumreads?
YAG/Tex Null

What I disliked earlier
-Interactions with me: adjusting for distance/conf.bias and this can be playstyle clash.
-Interactions with Elements (saying he was voting him as no other option then adjusting to comment didn't like the claim. Mentioning this kind of play is expected from Elements and not seeming to factor it in).

Don't actually think Skellen would have subbed out as scum here either but that's very minor influence.

Fulls more aligned with towngame by a fair amount. What I disliked can be mitigated by personality.

[Hopkirk]

I assumed hide would work and when it didn't i used 'spoiler' instead. I'll have to check the actual code I guess.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

There's never been a mafia that acts as a backup for town roles or vice versa to date in a normal.

I'm strongly in favour of leaving our T/BT/BW and so on to sort itself out as the game goes on.

[Hopkirk]

Well my internet is yoyoing at the moment.

VOTE: Kop

More after you catch up.

[Hopkirk]

There's clearly no chance someone has 11 obvtown and no regular townreads. You're trying to overjustify that you thought that was 100% genuine when you know perfectly well that at least half of my posts in this game have at least some kind of joke in them. Do you think I'm actually a hydra too?

Where do you get overjustification?
Your reads list is rubbish, I'm calling that flat out. When you're asked to explain them, you just wave your hands.
I don't give a rat's ass about jokes. If anything they just muddy things when town play should be clear.

Give a reason for your reads.
VOTE: Hopkirk

I can play this behavior modification game right up until deadline if y'all want.

Of course it stuck me as odd, that's why I commented. I don't try to outguess people or assume the odd things they post are anything else but odd. I say what I think about them and see how they respond. The response is what tells me if the odd things are genuine or not.

I don't buy that people reading to try and understand mindset think 'oh gee this guy is 90% town on half the game' and doesn't think that's odd. The justification you give here is piss poor.

Half the game isn't explaining reads right now. Am I the only one you've got a problem with? Why aren't you calling other people out on it too?

Which of my townreads do you disagree with?

[Hopkirk]

To repost the list of my townreads:

Hectic- I've played over 600 hours of mafia with him, hydraded with him involving

long

irl talks, and read him right on every forum game we've played (~4). We can read each other. You're attacking him for inactivity which I can vouch for irl. Your scumread here is shitty as hell.

Carcalilly- Mason

Bob- I covered some stuff d1. You don't seem to disagree with this.

Garmr- He claimed. I townread him before then which I covered D1.

JJD- you say you townread him. I explain my townread day 1.
Cliff - I covered d1 after a fairly long interaction.
Gamma- he's dead actually which I got mixed up so let's ignore this one.
Rick- you say you townread him. I think I covered my read d1, but it's largely from other people's meta on him.
Billy- claim based townread at the moment.

What's so 'shit' about this list which you mostly agree with, and that I mostly covered beforehand?

[Hopkirk]

My 'scumreads' (which I've already said is not a list of scum, it's a pool to look into and narrow down) has a pretty simple method behind it

Current playerlist
(Less people I townread)
(Less people who have pr stuff involved that means I don't want to vote there today)
(Less neutral players my scumreads are pushing enough that I'm leaving them for now)- I think there's 2 in this category

[Hopkirk]

Pedit:
(Less neutral players my scumreads are pushing enough that I'm leaving them for now)- I think there's 2 in this category

There was 0 in this catagory at the time.

I'll break it down for you if you're still having trouble there.

[Hopkirk]

Townreads: Hectic, Carcalilly, Garmr, bob3141, Rick, Cliff, Billy, JJD
New addition from scumpool to town: AaronFrost
Claims: Tchill + Proffi (new addition since previous list)

And would you just look at what that leaves us. It’s my list from earlier with Aaron and Proffi removed since the situation has directly changed there.
Kop
Alonzo
Titus
gobbledygook
davesaz
Eevee
texcat

It’s almost like it’s me presenting my townreads then doing POE to make a list of potential scum.
Gosh that must be why it was labelled LIST OF PEOPLE TO LOOK AT.
Gosh, it's odd that you're saying my POE LIST OF PEOPLE TO LOOK AT is a SCUMLIST when I definitely never presented it as that.
It’s almost like it’s completely idiot proof and you’d have to be shit at reading, or reading maliciously to not understand what POEing down into a scumpool is.

[Hopkirk]

To repost the list of my townreads:

If this is a "repost" then what post is it reposted from?
If you're just giving a reason for the people on the previous list then thanks but don't call it a repost.

I'll be happy to read this btw. Just asking a quick question before I do that.

It's a repost of my previous list of townread. That's what the repost part means. You know which list I'm talking about since you've commented on it.
I've pointed out that I already explained my townreads for them, or for a couple of them added a few comments.

Since you're claiming I have a 'shit' list of townreads, you're going to be explaining which are so shit.

[Hopkirk]

Is 3061 even for this game?
What's with all the blacked out spoiler?

Yeah, it's my updated read on Aaron. You'd probably get that if you fucking read it and noticed the fucking stuff I'm saying relates to this game instead of just trying to shade me.

If you read my next post you'll see that's meant to be hidden. It's copied from a spreadhseet to justify a couple of the comments.

[Hopkirk]

Why you put a lot of people in your "would lynch" but don't case any of them?

[Hopkirk]

bullshit

[Hopkirk]

So hopkirk and hectic are both throwing a ton of gimmicks into their play to obscure being read by each other?

that doesn't make sense because only one of them would have to be worried about such a thing unless it's multiball and they're scum on different teams. Why would town be worried about how the other reads them?

Hectic is the one doing the most heavy gimmicks (even more than I have seen from him in the past). I wonder if this holds significance or if they're just town having fun

Not even close. Hectic's had similar/more extreme gimmicks and I've seen him pick what gimmick he's going for before he gets his role pm. It's not AI.

My memeing definitely isn't enough to obscure any scumtells that actually involve how I post since my actual content hasn't changed- it's just had a lot of memery added on top. If Hectic has specifics there then they wouldn't be obscured unless I was only memeing. Doesn't help hide what I'd be so isn't relevant like you're suggesting.

We literally just finished a (town) game where we were hydraing where Hectic styled everything as police reports from 4 difference Officers, while half of my posts were signed by dead players in an attempt at copying how they post- claiming they'd joined our ghost army.

[Hopkirk]

It’s almost like it’s me presenting my townreads then doing POE to make a list of potential scum.
Gosh that must be why it was labelled LIST OF PEOPLE TO LOOK AT.
Gosh, it's odd that you're saying my POE LIST OF PEOPLE TO LOOK AT is a SCUMLIST when I definitely never presented it as that.

Nope, I'm not talking about your people to look at.
Where's your scumlist? And the reasons?

I never posted a scumlist. You're the one who said I posted a scumlist.

I posted a scumpool/POE pool and started voting people in it.

[Hopkirk]

You know what I'm not looking for d2? Deepscum when we haven't lynched scum yet.

Plenty of people can be deepwolfing. That's not what I'm looking for.

[Hopkirk]

Cliff isn't in my townpool anymore. Rick still is.

[Hopkirk]

Cliff's been positioning to get on every wagon except Eevee. I don't like the shade he's been throwing me early game or now.

[Hopkirk]

What's your scumpool look like right now Davey

[Hopkirk]

like what kind of opportunistic shit even is this

VOTE: Cliff

[Hopkirk]

Cliff Booth (8): Elements, Hopkirk, Gamma Emerald, Billy Pilgrim, Carcalilly, Hectic, tchill13

Pure as fuck.
Me, two masons, dead town, my strongest townread, two townclaims that I buy.

[Hopkirk]

Hey Titus, where's your Cliff scumread gone?

Although based on that logic it is possible cliff could be scum but what makes you think you arnt wrong about any of those in that list

Shy do you not think one of the scum would have bussed cliff during that wagon

-4 are literally confirmed town (me/masons/Elements)
-1 is Hectic (I'm not wrong here)
-1 is Tchill (claim)
-1 is Billy (claim)

Does it get to 8 then not get scum on it if it's a wagon on town? Wagons were collapsing at the time and that could've easily become a lynch.
If one of Billy/Tchill are scum 7/8 town is still super pure.

I'm town and I actually was actually coming to a conclusion in my last post how I would think it's more likely that hectic is scum over you but okay

this is supposed to change my mind how?