Large Normal 223 | New Beginnings | GAME OVER

[profii]

Hiya all.
This is one of my first forum games so I'm quite excited!
So I thought I better prepare myself because I've heard all the stories of wolfgods (that's what we call in them in the inner circles) of the likes of Sharan Tate and Skellen solving games by page 5. Insanity?!
So I've been up all night reading through the mafiascum wiki and I am now a walking encyclopedia of knowledge.
I'm serious, if you want to know about ANYTHING, whether it be about what an abbreviation means, or some obscure study or guide into how often people who mention self-meta are scum: just ask me, I've got you covered.

So while reading through the wiki, I discovered that it's site meta to claim the Miller role right from the get go, so without further ado:

I am the

Miller Survivor

.

I know you may have reservations given the Survivor part of my claim. But I give you my honest law-abiding word that I will strive to and will always work with the town's best interests from here on out.

In fact, here's a pledge:

I, Hectic, will self-hammer myself in any situation where the number of mafia are equal to the number of town.

That pledge up there stops me from siding with scum and winning the game with them in a LyLo situation. With this fallback, you guys can just use this failsafe to spite me out of a win. Therefore, I will never betray you.

I look forward to finding scum with you all.

You're a survivor (what), you're not gon' give up (what)
You're not gon' stop (what), You're gon' work harder (what)
You're a survivor (what), You're gonna make it (what)
You're will survive (what), keep on survivin' (what)

VOTE: kop

[profii]

it was

[profii]

I think I've read about this on the wiki actually.
What he's doing here is

breadcrumbing

. He's essentially giving us clues that he's a survivor, so that when he claims it D4 or something, he can point back to this post.
It's a bit weird to have 2 survivors though, so:

VOTE: profii

not a crumb, saw your role and sang you a song. that was it.

[profii]

now I feel like i should have said

nah probably wasn't a crumb, or was it?! It's a mYsTeRy!!"!

I've been done here

[profii]

Hectic, what does the wiki say about gimmicks?

[profii]

I believe I know who hectic is

[profii]

Also, Hectic’s giving me gimmick alt vibes

Alt of someone who is in charge of editing the wiki? NO WAY!

Some classic detective work there well done

[profii]

“When Hectic’s around you have to make the mafia win condition eliminate all threats to your team rather than have a majority. I didn’t believe someone could talk the mafia team into selfvoting on even numbers until I saw Hectic do it with only four words.”

“If I got a guilty on Tchill I wouldn’t actually reveal it. It’s more likely he’ll sub out than you’d be able to get him lynched, and all that’d happen is town loses a cop”

“When I first played with Davesaz I thought he had to be taking deduction enhancing drugs. When I got to know him I realized he was just that good.”

“It’d be less depressing getting destroyed by Billy every game if he didn’t look so dashing doing it”

“I just sheep Carcalilly whenever she votes for me seriously. There’s just no way I’m not getting lynched at that point so why waste time?”

“When Garmr’s around even the mod’s afraid of getting lynched”

“Designing breaking strategies got so much easier after Gamma Emerald joined the site. You used to have to use maths. Now you just need to start with ‘assume Gamma rolled town” and you don’t need any other steps”

“You only need one EeveeLution to catch the entire scumteam. An Army is just unfair”

“Judge Joeseph Dread shouldn’t actually check people as cop. The chance of them being a godfather is actually higher than the chance he’s ever wrong about a read”

“I once saw Kop catch the mafia team without posting just because they didn’t realize he was V/LA. They got so nervous about how he hadn’t already made a post about how he’d caught them that they just conceded”

“Rosterfoster is like the brother I always wanted back when I was growing up. I had these guys from the Russian Mafia after me for four years. They’d have been caught in four minutes if Roster had been around”

“Since the moment I first saw elements play I’ve started referring to OMGUS as OMEUS instead.”

“I only play mafia with people I’m 100% sure will be active since otherwise Rick Dalton can just sub in and instantly catch the scumteam whenever he feels like it”

“Sometimes I think Bob3141 is just the mod playing under a fake account. Nobody’s that good.”

“If Skeelen joins a game you’ve got to label it bastard. They’re so charismatic they just automatically get cult leader as an extra role modifier”

“Sharon Tate’s Finger of Suspicion is stronger than a dayvig”

“You are Great is the reason cops exist. You’d never be able to catch them as mafia otherwise”

“How is there not a rule against playing as well as Fishmonger? We’ve banned posting your role pm and surely that’s less gamebreaking than five minutes of FishMonger”

Hey man

[profii]

profii

Carcalilly

[profii]

Ok makes sense. It's early, so this was basically my way of directing a question to Carcalilly while we are still in LIVS. LAMIST means look at me I'm so town. Her comment about worrying about Hectic pointing out breadcrumbs in response to what I thought was a pretty obvious joke came across to me as her trying to score easy townpoints. That's why I asked if it was a joke. And I didn't read it as a joke initially, which is why I directed the vote there.

And as for my comments that I can't read Hectic and Hopkirk, I mean that. The jokey posts come across as though they're not game solving, but they're legit nai, so sorting them is tough. Yet for some reason I decided to torture myself by replacing into this game.

Could I ask what LIV means please? I don't see it anywhere in the wiki.
If you believe the jokey posts are NAI, can't you just disregard them?

Some people (myself included) believe the RVS stage is never truly random and you always pick someone for some reason, so it's a "low information vote stage"

I think it's a minority opinion

[profii]

profii

Carcalilly

what's shakin', bacon?

Just trying to find my feet in this game - not played too much mafia for a while and dont get involved in too many games with so many players but I thought this game had a cool player list in the queue

Liking that things are nice and active so just trying to post and see what people wanna talk about you know

But anyway

What's happenin' cracklin'?

[profii]

"I always tell my partners not to kill Profii night one. Obviously everyone wants to kill that kind of play and it takes a while to convince them that no matter what the mod tries they just can't stop Profii reviving three days later

I replaced into a slot where that happened once

[profii]

Some people (myself included) believe the RVS stage is never truly random and you always pick someone for some reason, so it's a "low information vote stage"

I think it's a minority opinion

Hmm, there's probably a statistic for scum being more/less likely to pick their buddies during RVS, but I couldn't find anything like that on the wiki unfortunately.
We could start gaining info for that now if you like? What alignment are you and was your RVS your scum buddy?

I actually picked kop because he totally duped me in a past game once ha ha

I am town of course

[profii]

Woah, I am on a roll of PageTops here. I think I read on the wiki somewhere that consistent PageToppers are 11% more likely to be town.
This statistic is incorrect however, since I am a Survivor this game. Silly wiki.

What I think you may find interesting is that there was this old statistic/graphic that "scum tend to post less" in general, so the likelyhood of pagetopping is less.

I've been wrecked by exceptions before, so it doesn't really help you in my book. Everyone's got an equal chance of being scum here. Except maybe gamma.

I was reading through Mastin's Insane Tells in the wiki and apparently a lot of these statistics and guides become obsolete once people actually start reading them and playing against the tells.

What's your history with

Omega Ruby

Gamma Emerald?

Some people are God meta manipulators and following what you know can be a weakness for them to exploit. They take no prisoners.

I have a little bit of history. He's just town.

Like who

Hey man long time no play, you good?

[profii]

Kind of hurt Profii didn't thank me for all the nice comments. "I'm almost as disappointed as I feel when I play a game of mafia without town Profii in it and realize I might have to actually scumhunt at some point instead of coasting to an easy win."

I think I gave OUATIH a 4 in the end on IMDB. Maybe a 5.

-Kirk

Oh man I laughed all the way through it was great

[profii]

Profii Profii Profii Profii Profii Profii Profii profii

This player list is hype, right?

[profii]

Profii Profii Profii Profii Profii Profii Profii profii

This player list is hype, right?

It really is. A decent amount of Boon Babes are here.

I hope Hectic is actually just Unabombah, but I know this to just be wishful

Wrong continent I think

[profii]

I think correct continent, wrong country.

Una’s Finland

Yeah I knew that we have different guesses

Dun dun dunnnn

[profii]

Could I ask what LIV means please?

Short for LIVERPOOL. Check his avatar!

The greatest city and football team in the world fyi

[profii]

Wow, I support Arsenal myself.

Comiserations

[profii]

Ignore Judge. I think I'm bussing him enough here. Would prefer it if he got in on the act since there's no way the entire scumteam would act like this.

Pretty sure Soulreading is something FL just made up. Either that or it's that thing Cowbells has where you sell your soul for enhanced mafia abilities.

Why would I ever make terms up like that...?

Dont let them hatchet you man

[profii]

and the hectic townbloc jump was pinging but it's just not something scum would do. Unless they're reckless.

It's hilarious to me that carcalilly seems to be the only one trying to actually play the game amongst the "hellos" and "how do you do's"

Carca town so far. Got nothing on anyone else. The familiarity will make this game a more difficult one, but a fun one indeed.

15 odd pages in and this is where I'm at too ha ha

[profii]

I'm assuming that means scum/neutral. If it doesn't then you along with a lot of other people really need to start explaining your acronyms. I get irritating elitist undertones from people doing that.

I had no idea what it meant but I look at this problem slightly differently

If someone wants me to follow their point of view and lynch someone, explain it to me in a way I understand or I will just scroll on by

[profii]

Just looking through the roll list and sorting people into 1 of three categories this is what I come up with

Town - Cliff, Rick, Hectic, Eevee, Gamma, Hop, carca, profii
Null - Kop, Billy, Fish, garmr, dave, bob, skellen, youare
Scum - Sharon, JJD, roster, Tchill

Idk why Tchill is in the scum bit there. Should be in the town. Probably because I don't like your name

Just clear this up- within about 1hour you've gone

Chill town -> scum -> town

I'm guessing you made a mistake but explain your thinking here

[profii]

Surely not knowing what a green pm is would be a scumslip? I don't think it's either, but I don't get why it would be a townslip (please explain)?

If we are going to make a point about this then.... if anything.... Billy made a scum slip tbh

[profii]

@Profii: I'm reading that as Elements put Tchill in the wrong section by accident so actually went Town>Town>Town which seems reasonable

I get that but I want to know a bit about how that read list was made because there have been a few comments on the lines "ho a lot of fun shitposting so far"

So a) how has he sorted the whole gang and b) why so loose with tchill

[profii]

I mean accidentally put him in a scum category of 4 people literally 1 post after saying he is town... that's a weird mistake to make given you only have 3/4 suspects

[profii]

Am I being dense but that isnt in post 3

[profii]

Though I like more music references

[profii]

^upon a quick iso

you're definitely missing something, either a large obvious piece of text or a joke involving the elements and a serial killer.

-Hop

Just a joke it seems

[profii]

pffft elements I might be starting to agree with you on the jjd thing for a different reason

Stay focused. A reputable Judge like myself would NEVER break the LAW. I ENFORCE the law. I AM THE LAW.

I'm agreeing with whomever said JJD is hiding behind his gimmick to not play the game

That's juicy enough to sheep
VOTE: Judge Joseph

I think I was in a game where he maintained either a gimmick or some kind of controversial claim to the death instead of admitting he was trying something so just gonna post to say not sheeping here

[profii]

Surely not knowing what a green pm is would be a scumslip? I don't think it's either, but I don't get why it would be a townslip (please explain)?

If we are going to make a point about this then.... if anything.... Billy made a scum slip tbh

Where was my scumslip?

Will explain day 2

[profii]

I'm assuming that means scum/neutral. If it doesn't then you along with a lot of other people really need to start explaining your acronyms. I get irritating elitist undertones from people doing that.

I had no idea what it meant but I look at this problem slightly differently

If someone wants me to follow their point of view and lynch someone, explain it to me in a way I understand or I will just scroll on by

Ah, another opinion. Town should be inquisitive about the meaning fwiw.

I guess I categorised it as "ah something only half the player list will know if I was meant to know I would"

But if it was a test then fine

[profii]

I’m in a neighborhood with Tchill and Aristophanes.

That's a hood I'd wanna be in, is the chatter flowing?

[profii]

To be fair, there is a sample pm

Not the first game that i'd have played where people didn't read the introductory posts.

Guilty

I was inferring you didn't realise town PM were actually plain

Which begs the question - why did hectic opt to make his role blue when he claimed survivor miller

[profii]

Also FYI

JJD has town slipped

[profii]

Also FYI

JJD has town slipped

Explain

After the game but in my mind hes town now for sure

[profii]

oi oi Rick Dalton, tell me more about your hood

[profii]

Also FYI

JJD has town slipped

Explain

After the game but in my mind hes town now for sure

Why would you not explain? This is a massive game and I think he's currently the biggest wagon. There's also a fair few low activity players. That means well want to decide on a lunch relatively early so they can defend and we can get the votes.

let's put it to the test

JJD have you purposely tried to ask me a question that would let me know you are town ?

(the answer is no but i might btw)

[profii]

oi oi Rick Dalton, tell me more about your hood

It was a joke because Tchill, Aristophanes, and myself pulled off a beautiful scum gambit by saying all 3 of us were in a neighborhood together, and I claimed Vigilante but i claimed Aristo’s role, and Tchill claimed gunsmith clearing me, and we won the game through that. Or something like that.

Is Ari an alt here or not ha

[profii]

Also FYI

JJD has town slipped

I did??

Ok you didn't damn it

[profii]

That was low-key a check request. Although I have doubts that we have a cop.
If we do then mafia might also have a pr.

21 players and you are thinking scum might not have any PRs?(!)

[profii]

VOTE: davesaz

Also townreads on gamma, carcalilly, tchill13. I wont be lynching them so dont ask me too.

Really? Why Dave?

[profii]

i like bob

[profii]

I'm bored but I have beer, that will still change

[profii]

Some people (myself included) believe the RVS stage is never truly random and you always pick someone for some reason, so it's a "low information vote stage"

I think it's a minority opinion

Hmm, there's probably a statistic for scum being more/less likely to pick their buddies during RVS, but I couldn't find anything like that on the wiki unfortunately.
We could start gaining info for that now if you like? What alignment are you and was your RVS your scum buddy?

I actually picked kop because he totally duped me in a past game once ha ha

I am town of course

Your going to have to refresh my mind, what are you on about?

@profii did you answer this.

dont think so posting to get wiki link to go find the game...

[profii]

There was a game ages ago and I think I got to lylo - I think you replcaed into a slot cursed with inactivity that went through about 4 replaces during the game and I voted with you causing a town loss and your scum win

so i RVS'd you because i hold huge grudges and that seemed as good a reason as any... i'm not over that loss

[profii]

This one

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=74615

[profii]

I'm ok with the push on roster

VOTE: rosterfoster

[profii]

Let's go ISO by ISO and provide a short summary of each player because I'm bored and I feel like I haven't really analysed this game in any substantial way yet

I feel like some of these will be easier than others but what the hell...

1 Kop:
I'm surprised about his interest about my RVS vote, probs NAI though
Notable comment that he expects more than 1 NK
Naked vote on roster - note to self check later as this out of context when in ISO mode

2. Billy Pilgrim
Hehe liverpool fans on top of the player list - I'd lol if I was #3 (or jjd)
I get the carcass vote in context of first few pages
I also like that he retracts upon explanation
Note to self double check the supposed carca pm slip thing, assume negative due to no press but curious anyway...
Note to self - check why billy might like JJD

3.Cliff Booth
The main thing from this ISO is I wonder what I was close about Hopkirk with.. Cliff?

4. Rick Dalton
I have a way to read Rick which says town so far, wont be revealing my secrets here

5. Sharon Tate
Largely inactive. Did google the real sharon tate and read about her murder, you learn something new every day

6. Hectic
Miller claim, I'll make a call on this when some conflicting wagons and stuff make hectic pick a side. For now its irrelevenant
Interesting that he says I have picked guessed his alignment previously...

Eevee
My gut feeling is we do not see things in a similar way, is that AI? Unsure so far

Gamma
I dunno, always struggle to read gamma:(


Tired now. More later

[profii]

I dunno, always struggle to read gamma:(

Try pls

When there is more wagons was my thinking, not really much to go by rn

[profii]

I think we were up to here when I made that post. I was literally flicking through ISOs as quick as possible and I was falling asleep so let's see what I was thinking haha

Gamma is NOT scum

tbh i agree with you on this

as i mentioned I can never read him, I put him in the 'town until he suggests otherwise' kind of sorting pile but i wouldnt make a bold statement until i was really sure so we differ i guess but it's minor

idm day 1 its just not always as entertaining. but its still a part of the game

I actually like day 1, so much so I am always wary of people who say they dont...

Gamma is NOT scum

tbh i agree with you on this

Eevee, what are your thoughts on the game as a whole?

i think its going rather well, havent seen much that pings scum yet, everyone seems friendly too

to be fair i agree with that.

Hectic. Name 5 or more normal/non-bastard roles. all but one of which aren't your role, and one that is. Randomize the order. I want to see if I'm right about you.

Bulletproof Jester
Survivor Miller
Lynchproof Lyncher
Town Bus Driver
Mafia Day Vigilante

irl. Unless you know to the contrary?

I remember specific examples of him doing it as town for sure, but can't actually specifically remember him doing it as mafia. I feel like he has done so though.

interesting how all are different factions, idk how to take this information though. nice list though

i didnt know what you meant by different factions but i kinda glossed over the roles, i dont even know what some of them are so I guess I just noted in my brain that you know that stuff and i dont really consider it too much in my play...

I'm starting to realise my game play is heavily influenced by my mood.

this happens to me too. it is an emotional game tbh

so what mood are you in now then

Im in the mood to vote some up.

VOTE: Eve

I actually really like this post

i also like this post, though my meta probably wont work as well here as it does on PS! but i can still try it out

i didnt like it sorry

VOTE: davesaz

Also townreads on gamma, carcalilly, tchill13. I wont be lynching them so dont ask me too.

I have no beef with Dave

Also i lowkey think there is a vig

I'd probably not have said that

Which is my point. Don’t prematurely lock anyone.

You mean townlock right?

Are we talking about setup now?

Preferably not. I like to focus on play thanks.

Cant we do both~?

Not a fan of setup spec this early, that's part of the day 1 fun, it's still pretty pure in that respect.

Inspecting a miller claim is wasting the inspect, just decide if you believe it not

and to be fair this is correct too


so on the whole I feel like we just approach the game differently. dont think it will be a problem unless you get all scummy but it was just an observation...

[profii]

bob, who's your current vote on and would you be willing to join us on roster?

I think the rooster wagon is just a bad wagon. Cant see any justification for it even gettign to 3 votes let alone 5. Or how you tried to push it 6.

This is a 21 player game. A wagon of 5 is not pressure.

agreed... tbh I'd encourage some wagons, roster or otherwise as that will help the game sort itself out a bit.

[profii]

bob, who's your current vote on and would you be willing to join us on roster?

I think the rooster wagon is just a bad wagon. Cant see any justification for it even gettign to 3 votes let alone 5. Or how you tried to push it 6.

This is a 21 player game. A wagon of 5 is not pressure.

agreed... tbh I'd encourage some wagons, roster or otherwise as that will help the game sort itself out a bit.

Id prefer otherwise tbh. As it stands a roster flip probably wont be very useful anyway. Since partners might have jumped on to bus a flaker. Or he could just be town who got busy.

Anyone know if hes site-gone or just game-gone?

roster has made some posts though so i'd rather we build up a bit of a wagon and when he gets prodded he comes in to a situation where there is a need to deal with stuff rather than just go 'oh yeah hey that guy is probably scum see you in 5 days'

[profii]

I guess but still it seems like a waste of time. What are your plans if he does get subbed?

why would i change plan?

Still gives the person a reason to get themselves into the game.

[profii]

Continuation from last night

JJD - shouldn't be today's lynch imo

Hectic - I get a vibe from his iso that he is being active for actives sake. I'd say he perhaps lacked direction until this little roster wagon popped up so that's something to consider

Fish monger - thered be a tumble weed gif here if I was clever

Hopkirk is a little bit similar to hectic in his jovial entrance to the game but I get more of a sense that he is trying to convey opinions as the game progressed so I'm ok with that

Roster - come talk to me or the votes stays, y'arr!

Carcalilly - inquisitive enough to be town

Finish this tomorrow I think

I feel like some of this is a bit out of context as sometimes you only see 1 side of a conversation but whatever I'll reassess once I've done them all - not sure if I'm going to come out with a realistic number of slots of concern so we shall se

[profii]

Something fishy going on between rick / cliff

[profii]

Haha woke up, caught up, posted that, had shower, had shower thought:

Cliff, what's your read on Rick right now?

[profii]

See I dont like that you coordinated parody accounts and still trust Rick after the metaphorical dice roll of roles being handed out

Rick I think I know your game >_>

[profii]

so I sheeped to see what would happen

well this is what i meant by i know your game so thats good ha ha

[profii]

Something fishy going on between rick / cliff

I'm pretty sure this is just some cute gimmick of theirs.

nah I'd picked up on Rick sheeping

[profii]

Why'd you feel the need to Express a read on Fish Monger on particular? There are other relatively inactive players this game. What makes him different?

I am working my way through ISOs literally in playerlist order from post 1.

I wouldn't call what I put there 'a read' - I just wanted to make a joke about a player still have 0 posts at time of writing given we were about 30 odd pages in

[profii]

Why'd you feel the need to Express a read on Fish Monger on particular? There are other relatively inactive players this game. What makes him different?

I am working my way through ISOs literally in playerlist order from post 1.

I wouldn't call what I put there 'a read' - I just wanted to make a joke about a player still have 0 posts at time of writing given we were about 30 odd pages in

Ah, I didn't realise they literally hadn't posted yet.

Hmm well former fish never posted ever - Titus took over so it's a given

Interesting

[profii]

Dave, Gamma, Elements, profii vs the Flavor should be fun.

I think we are ok

[profii]

I was going to go through the rest of the ISOs but nothing is really standing out so i can't be bothered.
I have another plan for the weekend to try and find something that stands out so that's ok.

I feel like I get reads when some drama kicks off and nothing major is really standing out, there are little spats but it's not really leading to anything

so I'll apply some logic and see if anyone stands out probably tomorrow evening. (subject to checking when the deadline is... ha)

[profii]

I'm saying that there is a reason that the people who play with me frequently aren't very worried about me being scum, yes.
There is a valid concern that most of the slots I'm talking about are falling into the "not scumhunting" category.
It's true that some of the slots in that category have to be town, because the category is waaaay too big right now.
During the work week, this is what I have time to look at. Plus the average slot usefulness for this game is a bit under what I'm used to, so I'm trying to light a fire under some of them. With less success than I'd like unfortunately.

I'm used to smaller games where I'd probably suggest a slow game like this suggests scum dont mind where our focus is

But seeing as the wagons aren't really getting too serious I am not sure that's a valid logic here

[profii]

VOTE: Hectic

I think that's the best way to go. I'll case it out for everyone when I'm not half asleep. But the gist is a lot of surface level stuff, even once you get past the gimmick and look at what he's actually doing.

[profii]

I said I would case out my hectic vote but flicking through the ISO again there is just too many lol-posts for me to go through it and do it seriously - however - i still stand by my vote.
Basically I was going through each slot and marking in a spreadsheet if people town or scum lent on any slot, whilst i did that, hectics leans just stood out like a sore thumb for some reason.
When i thought back to my initial skim of the ISO and called it surfacey, i still agreed with that position so i think it's a good vote.

Perhaps I am giving hectic not enough credit because of all the jokes but some of his votes seem to just be following wagons in any direction and no real scum reasons for anything so im ok with it

[profii]

VOTE: Hectic

I think that's the best way to go. I'll case it out for everyone when I'm not half asleep. But the gist is a lot of surface level stuff, even once you get past the gimmick and look at what he's actually doing.

please dont tell me you're doing this to play devil's advocate, is that, for sure, the #1 place where you want your vote? Everyone considered?

sounds like I've missed something?

[profii]

why does tchill get to say he isn't gonna put in any effort on day one and no one really cares but I get bullied into having to play day 1

Interestingly that was the reason I suicide copped tchill in a game once and sacrificed myself to get a guilty. I'll see what I think but maybe I just got lucky with going against his meta that time

(I had a loyal visiting type role, last post of the day was "imma cop you tchill >=( and then I died from the visit ha ha, rick was in the game too, I cant flipping find it)

[profii]

Tell a lie, weak fruit vendor
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... hilit=Imma

[profii]

Rick thoughts on my claim pls

Not surprised, there was a weird circular town read going on so I did wonder when I was flicking through

[profii]

Yes

[profii]

There has been a lot of posts since I last checked in and it looks a bunch of posters - is there some important information i need to take from 10 pages or so

[profii]

Elements claimed SK but make of that what you will. I don't believe the claim personally.

I forgot about this.

Honestly, it could be mafia claiming SK to try to be “leashed”.

I hate that idea of leashing SK’s. Just kill them.

Saying things like that got me caught as scum in the past you know

Though I agree with the logic

[profii]

Someone summarise why I should help cliff or element wagons please

[profii]

Very much a gamble


VOTE: elements

[profii]

Fuck it I'm jumping back on tchill if we get a extension.

VOTE: Tchill

You too, Garmr. I really don't care about individual reads at this point. We can all get back to this on D2. The thing is Aaron scum claimed because there is absolutely NO TOWN MOTIVE behind voting a claimed PR on D1 (not even a direct CC in a game this size). "not really a crumb" isn't even feasible either. What's a crumb to Mr Aaron? From my PoV it's a valid crumb and it proves Elements had "Watcher" in his mind all day at the very least. If he's faking he will be caught in his own lie in D2/D3 at max. He has already locked himself to produce results. If he is for real then scum will take care of him anyway, so either way we do NOT lynch a claimed PR on D1.

On the other hand, we still don't push more people to claim (or even fake claim). What IF you push C and they claim another TPR? Then another?? We might as well mass claim right now and get it over with.

So, in sum.. a scum claim is a scum claim, and EVEN if by some Godly miracle Aaron's play came from Town then it's worthy of a PL, and the best time for a PL to happen is DAY BLOODY ONE.

Thank you.

eh changed my mind

UNVOTE:

[profii]

Where do I vote and why - cliff or tchill?

[profii]

VOTE: aaron

I voted elements before because I thought we needed a lynch

Then JJD pointed out it was stupid and other lynch options become a thing at the same time so time to move

[profii]

VOTE: elements

[profii]

UNVOTE:

[profii]

VOTE: elements

[profii]

VOTE: elements
UNVOTE:

VOTE: elements
UNVOTE:

[profii]

weren't you voting me already?

Why did you do that then?

[profii]

VOTE: elements
UNVOTE:

VOTE: elements
UNVOTE:

Are you going to try and steal the hammer from me?

Do you really care?

[profii]

VOTE: elements

[profii]

Guess you don't care

[profii]

I hope Gamma sent something funny

[profii]

I am not a fan of Bob. He initially voted for Elements for reasons 'setup spec'ing very early' etc

He then left the wagon, but came back when the lynch actually went through and when he put his vote on he said he didn't believe the macho/one shot claim.

My concern is that if I am casing a slot for being scummy I'd be like "woah guys I'm voting elements because he was setup speccing over in this post, plus now look at this macho claim it's gotta be BS" - i.e. case the whole ISO for a scum evidence - Bob didnt mention his initial setup spec concern when he votes due to his claim concern, which makes me believe he is looking for a reason to be on the wagon rather than actual scum hunting properly.

VOTE: Bob3141

Obviously I will hear him out but I'm just going to vote there for now.

I've looked at Tchill's ISO and someone is going to have to take me through the case here, he doesn't come across super town of the players I've looked at so far but I dont think he is the most scummy either at this point unless I've missed something of course.

[profii]

The doctor is a rather awkward position now.

[profii]

leap to illogical conclusions cough profii.

This is unnecessary- just move on

[profii]

I am not a fan of Bob. He initially voted for Elements for reasons 'setup spec'ing very early' etc

He then left the wagon, but came back when the lynch actually went through and when he put his vote on he said he didn't believe the macho/one shot claim.

My concern is that if I am casing a slot for being scummy I'd be like "woah guys I'm voting elements because he was setup speccing over in this post, plus now look at this macho claim it's gotta be BS" - i.e. case the whole ISO for a scum evidence - Bob didnt mention his initial setup spec concern when he votes due to his claim concern, which makes me believe he is looking for a reason to be on the wagon rather than actual scum hunting properly.

VOTE: Bob3141

Obviously I will hear him out but I'm just going to vote there for now.

I've looked at Tchill's ISO and someone is going to have to take me through the case here, he doesn't come across super town of the players I've looked at so far but I dont think he is the most scummy either at this point unless I've missed something of course.

That seems pretty reachy to me. Are you going to pick out everyone that voted for elements early in day one. By the time elementis made his watcher claim i was already sorting him as town. With me even calling out those who continued to push him.

Wasn't with till after his one shot macho watcher claim plus himself voting that made me reluctantly vote for him.

Straight watcher i believed. Macho watcher could be possible role but no townie should have mentioned the macho bit. Added to all that self voting. It just looked bad for town

Oneshot talk tipped me over the edge when it came to voting for him. I cant see why he mentioned that as he flipped just a macho watcher. I wonder if he was responding to once

per a night

---

I find it odd you overlook my scum hunting aswell. Did you not think kop has been scummy this game. Has he not done anything in your opinion to justify my vote on him before the wtacher saga. For you to think that doesnt even count as scum hunting.

He has yet to answer any of my points i think

to be fair that an eerily accurate description of what I did

I felt like day 1 was a drag so I figured a logical way to start sorting was ISO all the element voters, ctrl+f my way through the word element and see why people were voting for him and what stood out

Your response is pretty cool though so I'll go look through my notes for where I'll be looking next

[profii]

There is a chance Rick Dalton is scum

[profii]

I don’t have enough control on this game to be scum

Interesting

[profii]

And if you took a BP, Garmr could be doing the doctor cover thing but I think a doc claimed but I am high sooo

I'd suggest we ignore it and scum hunt for now

[profii]

@JJD - Just to mention, I now have a notekeeping thread, obviously if you want you can read it post game. It's not that exciting yet but I'll probably go page by page like your game to break the game into bite size chunks

[profii]

Why do you want to be lynched?

Oh eth0s

[profii]

Wow

[profii]

So I read a pretty good strategy on the wiki where you convieniently "forget" when D2 of a game starts. Therefore, allowing you to lurk for half the day and not have to deal with pesky

people.

Unfortunately, I recently discovered this strategy was one targeted at scum, not town (which is what I am - town, not scum, just in case you were wondering). And since I am

town

, and definitely not

scum

(scum are the mafia btw, town are the good guys), I have realised that I should come back and start contributing again.

So give me the rest of today to brush up on my knowledge again, and I will return with a game solve, courtesy of the wiki tomorrow.

Good luck, fellow townies (unless you're scum, then bad luck, because I am town and don't want you to win, because I am on opposite teams as you. (To clarify, I'm talking to the scum here.))

-Hectic

So you're not a survivor?

[profii]

TCHILL get your ass here with an excuse that better please the gods

tf do you want me to say?

Particularly, I want you to explain:

1. Why you seem to be putting 0 effort in solving the game
2. Why you're constantly lurking (even if you're just busy you could at least tell us all)
3. Why you don't bother to back up any of your statements

your presence in this game became a strange kind of downwards spiral

Is there anything else as to why tchil has such a wagon on him?

[profii]

Why are we talking about mass claims on day 2

[profii]

My preference is to make no further claims until our remaining mason dies

[profii]

I'll give you a sneak peek into something in my notes JJD...

Why setup a new IC with this nea/VT business when scum already have to think about mason!carca.

We know carca is a mason

What if someone messes around with this nea business to try and catch someone out - we move the doc off the mason and potentially lose out

I say go with what we know- keep our mason alive as long as possible

[profii]

WAIT! I knew I was forgetting something.. CARCA IS ASCETIC. She's ALREADY dead.

Or is she? Wifom

Is the assumption I'm making

[profii]

WAIT! I knew I was forgetting something.. CARCA IS ASCETIC. She's ALREADY dead.

Or is she? Wifom

Is the assumption I'm making

She explicitly claimed it when the Voyeur said a Doctor visited her.

We need to elect a new IC in her stead.. and one that a Doctor/Jailer can actually protect

I'll re read I thought garmr was trying to help which caused that but if it's true then fine make a new IC

[profii]

@profii: Who should I vote? Give me 2-3 options please

I was actually going to put forward Rick Dalton because I have only seen him hard buddy someone as scum (in overkill 2 actually - hebichan) but in the mafia PT of that game he said hed do it as town anyway

On the one hand you could say he is hard buddying our IC on the other hand you can say carca may well die soon so it's not a major scum asset to buddy an IC so openly anyway

Kinda back to square 1 I suppose

I'm happy ish with my Bob vote - though he did say look at his scum hunting on kop, who is a player who has lurked as scum with me before so that could even be as simple as "I'll bus my buddy the goon as I am the PR"

I'll be looking into tchill in work lunch breaks to try and decide what my thoughts are there

[profii]

Is the forum broke or is it just me ? Saw something yesterday in site chat but I'm still struggling to get on

[profii]

spreading paranoia that will cost town the game.

i dont know if I'm reading into that too much...

[profii]

but actually it's a good reason to scum read me i have been relatively apathetic towards this game and expected more scum reasons sooner. It might make you more towny heh

[profii]

I get the tchill push but i always feel like we can do better than going for the lack of activity. I'm also conscious I am guilty of letting inactive scum off the hook on the premise of 'lets hear what they have to say' whilst town rush in and lynch someone else so I'm kinda meh about that.

I recall a bit about Texcat - i dont see the issue with Texcat at all really so I'm not voting there.

Still ok with my bob vote.

Eevee has popped up so let's look there: there is that issue over use of the word "we" in relation to 1 kill. I guess that is interesting as it was pretensed with anything like 'the theory is we believe blah' it was just 'we believe' also looking at the iso I get a kind of undertone of 'my team doesnt seem to have as much PRs as I'd want for such small numbers' hence the comments about the game being stacked or whatever.

Weirdly, if you said to me are you going to vote Eevee or Tchill today and limited me to that lynch pool, I'd probably vote either - my levels of confidence are probably equal and not fully there, however, the reasons are totally different - I'm a little bit paranoid about letting inactivity go (Also Kop sits in here as i've seen him beat me as inactive scum before) however there is some thing going on with Eevee I'm certain but I dont know what

[profii]

I'm inclined to believe a tracker claim

[profii]

So we now have 2 inspection role claims.

But garmr said he was just trying to wifom the scum / mason situation right?

I'm less inclined to believe that claim

[profii]

I dont know what that means, where is hectic with the wiki

[profii]

I can’t tell elements he was anti-town irl so I have to judge him on here and hope he’s still reading.

I can vouch for Hectic's location between the hours of ten and one. Beyond that I'm surprised he hasn't posted yet. I’m looking forward to his logically (and morally) consistent explanation.
Luckily the pr mess only involves my townreads so I’m not changing anything.

Aaron is chainsawing his friend Tchill as we expected.

I wasn’t actually on the Elements wagon (unless the mod missed my vote, then I voted after he was lynched) and I was trying to start a counterwagon after the Watcher claim when the wagon was keeping its momentum. @Aaron: is scumhop consistent with this, and with me saying afterwards that his vote on Element’s was effectively a policy vote for someone declaring they’d do nothing except self vote?

@Bob: your percentages on the Rooster wagon aren’t any better than the chance of a randomly picked player being scum and I’m not totally sure why you’re saying there must be x scum on the wagon, instead of ‘x is acted scummy in relation to the wagon/in the way they voted on the wagon’.

Tchill looked fine with me until I started pushing him.

-Hop

this caught my eye.

If you tried to start a counter wagon after the watcher claim I couldn't spot it

Perhaps ISO is taking some of the context of your C/W away but hmm

[profii]

And watcher?.... Who gives a fuck about a watcher? Lol. I doubt it's true. Lynch it with fire

Let's not lynch tchill today!

[profii]

@cliff

Riding solo or hydra? Sorry cba to go and look

And also when you get here who are your scum reads today please

[profii]

VOTE: garmr

Really?

[profii]

If no one directly cc's that they are also a tracker, I believe tchills claim but if there is another tracker they should definitely say

[profii]

If no one directly cc's that they are also a tracker, I believe tchills claim but if there is another tracker they should definitely say

Profii confirms tchill being scum here going by his track record of last game.

can you just stop this and behave...

[profii]

But it feels like another kreag profii.

then you've not read what i said as I put something totally different.

[profii]

well I am informed that a tracker is in this game, so seeing as you are not going to read my posts I'll just repeat it

If someone else is a tracker, they really should counter tchill.

[profii]

meh might as well full disclose as I can't really answer that... I am the backup tracker, so to be fair, i could exist without a tracker existing but that seems stupid. I am obviously town but I dont know if backups have to be the same alignment as the actual dude

[profii]

hey Cliff Booth, what do you know?

[profii]

meh might as well full disclose as I can't really answer that... I am the backup tracker, so to be fair, i could exist without a tracker existing but that seems stupid. I am obviously town but I dont know if backups have to be the same alignment as the actual dude

UNVOTE: T-chill

I will trust you on this one.

so are we saying a role and it's backup must be aligned ? Because if that isn't true, Tchill can be scum here

Also - i just looked back and tchill hasnt said what he did on N1, so before we let him off the hook, we should get him to say what he chose to do as this may inform us better i think

[profii]

@profii where are you at with reading rick? I know you said you thought you learned how to read him. So how's that coming along

On the one hand, he was hard buddying Carca which I've only seen him do as scum
But on the other hand, he hasn't done something else I've only seen him do as scum (I'm not revealing it as he doesn't know what it is)

So I'm saying town lean for now.

I ignore all his claims just fwiw haha

[profii]

meh might as well full disclose as I can't really answer that... I am the backup tracker, so to be fair, i could exist without a tracker existing but that seems stupid. I am obviously town but I dont know if backups have to be the same alignment as the actual dude

UNVOTE: T-chill

I will trust you on this one.

so are we saying a role and it's backup must be aligned ? Because if that isn't true, Tchill can be scum here

Also - i just looked back and tchill hasnt said what he did on N1, so before we let him off the hook, we should get him to say what he chose to do as this may inform us better i think

Oh they can be opposite alignment I didn't think of that. Still it at the very least means I was wrong on one of you.

you asked and i said i dont know, you literally did think of it.

christ

[profii]

dohhhhh!

[profii]

I can't believe I forgot Tchill tracked Texcat - I literally have it in my notes ha ha

I want to know why

Their interaction in day 1 was obviously YOUAREGREAT rather than Texcat and consisted of YOUAREGREAT asking for more info on reads but feeling like Tchill didnt respond and calling it scummy.

of all the slots, does that seem like a logical one to track? idk, I'd like to hear more

[profii]

I am ok with a policy lynch on Garmr but I'd be very shocked if he flips scum. Garmr tends to be off the wall ridiculous as town.

What the

[profii]

This is probably town garmr, annoyingly

[profii]

I can’t really put it into words, but I think Profii might be scum.

Nah

[profii]

I would enjoy a garmr lynch

But I dont think he is smart enough to do those wacky claims as scum

[profii]

I mean if you are town you can say what you mean and be like lol fake claim guys I'm so cRaZy

But as scum if you give a result that catches you out you're probably getting lynched and when you are on the minority team if you die the stakes are higher - taking such a risk would be dumb imo

[profii]

I choose not to speculate

[profii]

I mean if you are town you can say what you mean and be like lol fake claim guys I'm so cRaZy

But as scum if you give a result that catches you out you're probably getting lynched and when you are on the minority team if you die the stakes are higher - taking such a risk would be dumb imo

But what was the risk, really? Who was going to catch scum!Garmr out? The doc was the only one, and that would be assuming that the doc exists and did not actually protect Carca. And generally trading a scum for the doc is not that bad a trade. Scum!Garmr just got really unlucky when Carca claimed ascetic on D2. Most might have thought that she would have at least hinted at it, if not outright claimed on D1. Plus he's still relying on the fall back position of cRaZy town, and so getting caught out seems like it was no risk at all.

So garmr potentially lied about this supposed doc voyeur result

It seems unusual to me that no one has jumped on it and said "omg lynch all liars" which usually happens

I agree with you that sacrificing a scum for finding the doc is probably worthy for scum but we either have no doc or a smart doc who stayed quiet in this scenario

I suppose in this instance the claim is designed to appear like a mason saving move so it takes away the scrutiny but also potentially lure out a doc

So sure it can be scum but wed have to also believe that Garmr, who likes a fun claim managed to roll the scum goon or least useful scum PR which would be too coincidental for me to go with it - there is a higher probability that garmr could coach someone into this claim I think.

So I think it was genuine attempt to mason save that backfires a bit... the risk if you are scum is people are going to constantly throw shade at you the longer you live because you wont be considered trustworthy which will harm your long term plans I guess

[profii]

I would enjoy a garmr lynch

But I dont think he is smart enough to do those wacky claims as scum

Can you rephrase that to too cautious as scum.

Because I probably have a slightly above average scum game just my town game needs a little work in convincing people. Also while you say to stupid 2 games ago I literally worked out the entire scum team, their night actions, the reasons behind their night actions ect and no one listened to me which broke me that game still won through. (Bob can attest to this despite disagreeing to how I got there)

So what I like to gambit every once and a while as town sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. One time it worked I got scum to kill a scum read of mine (bob was my mason partner) another time I claimed weak hider day 1 (which i was) and literally out thought scum with my hides.

Stupid would be being the masons (the only power roles in a small game) and seeing a scum claim roleblocker and being like they are town.

Loool

[profii]

#PrayForGarmr

[profii]

VOTE: alonzo

[profii]

@profii: Final answer? Shall I sheep you here or would you be switching votes within the next 50 posts??

I'm not a particularly fast vote switcher but I'm not going to tell anyone what to do

[profii]

I dont think we should lynch gobble tbh

[profii]

I'm starting to not feel anxious about Titus but I don't know why.

I can dig this. Theres a few posts that are a bit like "this post could be scummy, but might not be"

As in, I need to manufacture a reason to vote here, but also need to backtrack later

[profii]

VC 2.2

Tchill13 - (6):

- gobbledygook, Hopkirk, Cliff Booth, Titus, Hectic, Garmr

EeveeLution Army - (5):

- Judge Joseph Dread, Rick Dalton, Billy Pilgrim, bob4131, AaronFrost

bob4131 - (2):

- profii, Alonzo

Garmr - (1):

- texcat

Rick Dalton - (1):

- Carcalilly

Not Voting:

Kop, Hectic, EeveeLution Army

With 19 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-10-10 05:35:11)

Just shy of 3 days to go and we have considered Tchill who we seem to think made a legit claim because I said I'm the tracker backup - but I haven't spotted anyone say they are fluent enough with the rules to 100% confirm that backups and main roles are aligned - however it seems to be the general consensus so the wagon died which seems right

Eevee was up there, personally I am not feeling that lynch but if someone else wants to sell it then feel free.

Alonzo has cropped up, as far as i can tell, he has been quite low profile compared to his normal game so I'm ok with my vote being there.

Also in counter to Alonzo we have Titus, I'm in a bit of a predicament because does a counter wagon necessarliy mean someone is being saved? I feel like both are scummy- there has been mention of multiball, it may well be.


But yeah I think this post is just a call to the group to focus as we have had plenty of time now

[profii]

@proffi- playing different to his town game, his scum game, or both?

playing different to his town game, not sure I've played with Alonzo scum in any previous games to reference.

[profii]

I haven't spotted anyone say they are fluent enough with the rules to 100% confirm that backups and main roles are aligned

It's not

a rule

and it's theoretically possible to be of different alignments. However, it's a balancing concept. Like, it'd be a double penalty if Town lynched its Tracker and -as a result- Scum gained one, or vice-versa. Unless -of course- it's a MB and if one scum side loses it's Tracker the other scum team gains one. Just saying.

That's helpful

[profii]

Dave did you ever check me compared to the boon game

[profii]

I'm just going to claim

I was the other neighbour. There is no one else. Gook claimed he gunsmithed me on N1 and he was 99% sure I was town (or a scum doctor) he said he would gunsmith someone tonight, but not sure if he was going to fake the result or not. I dont need to reveal that just yet.

I will go dig through the other thread for some reads, I assume I can't quote verbatim so I will paraphrase what I find

Also, for clarity and to pre-empt questions, I'm a neighbor backup tracker. That is my full and final claim.

[profii]

So here is how the game has progressed for me:

Firstly, I think I scum read rooster early on, certainly in my mind, but I think i did also post - there wasn't much reason in the thread but he was posting in the hood, but not in the game which bothered me, I felt it was too early in the game to call it out but it adds up something wasn't right

Rooster left with nothing really happening in the hood.

Gook straight up asked me who is scum and I said IDK. In hindsight, this will be my best move of the game ha ha

Gook talks about elements a lot without actually giving a stance. It was still in the 'I dont trust you and you dont trust me' section of the hood

Gook tried to pressure me into giving more reads, but I couldnt be bothered reviewing 80 odd pages when a flip was incoming and he didnt like that at all, but I am lazy ok. I guess he wanted to know if i should be pushed if my reads were decent, idk be hard to influence that from his position.

He thinks JJD is town

He then says he thinks him being a gunsmith + elements role meant a scum doc exists (not sure what elements claimed if anything - i dont have a note here?)

He also says it's confirmed a scum doctor targetted a mason, but i dont know if this is true and i guess from our hood position he doesnt know if his known scum-mates made the n1 kill or if they got blocked - i.e. if it's single or multiball

He then does say depending on how big the scum team is there is most likely a serial killer (and earlier he asked how big i think the scum team is, so i think that gives something away)

He said he didnt want to claim because he'd probably die (sorry if you are reading)

He speculates eevee is the doc.

He said he would gunsmith Hopkirk or eevee but then I pointed out we thought eevee was a doc and he then picked from a pool of players i presented.

then he died.

[profii]

hmm. that makes sense for 2869 as posted above

my 'breadcrumb' was specific to JJD

he asked me if I had a personal PT (I had one in a game he modded and he liked reading it) I think i initially said not right now, knowing that i had a PT but I'd need to trust my hood-buddy before I could go into full note taking mode

then when gook said he gunsmithed me I said fine I'll go with his word for now (ok naive but hey) and that's the point I said to JJD I have a thread now - as i am using the hood as my note keeping space.

[profii]

Also - I think I reciprocated 2869 as i believed the claim

[profii]

Also - I think I reciprocated 2869 as i believed the claim

could you search if he mentioned titus in your chat, also if he thought i was doctor why was he pushing my lynch?

no mention of Titus

he only mentioned you twice - 1 thought you were legit the doc, 2 considered you for gunsmith action

[profii]

Proffi is as close to confirmed town as anyone outside Carca/hectic are going to get.

I'm happy to see my scumpool appears to be the only people we are considering voting for.



-hop

Why hectic I missed that
Why not query anything I said

[profii]

He also says it's confirmed a scum doctor targetted a mason,

I am guessing this was after Garmr claimed but before Carca outed she was Ascetic? Cuz it looks like an attempt to push the Doctor who was expected to claim so as to confirm Garmr.

P.S. How does that make Garmr look? I am not sure myself, as I could see it both ways.

The comment would sit as post 2211 on page 89 if it was here... I'll check for context later

[profii]

Cliff Booth, what are your reads on JJD and Billy Pilgrim?

[profii]

Rick, whats your read on Kop?

[profii]

@JJD - Just to mention, I now have a notekeeping thread, obviously if you want you can read it post game. It's not that exciting yet but I'll probably go page by page like your game to break the game into bite size chunks

This is as close to a crumb you will get from me
When gobbldegook said he gunsmithed me I figured he was paranoid about me as I didnt give much away in the hood so wanted to check me and essentially make us like masons

So I believed his claim and just used my hood thread as a note keeping place from when G claimed gunsmith

So I said this as a reference to reveal I have a PT - ie the hood thread

I think its more subtle than trying to shoehorn in some weird expression like "heard a weird noise coming from next door last night" or whatever

[profii]

Also JJD posted that if Tchil was a scum tracker and he died, not only do scum lose a tracker, but town gain one which is a huge swing in the game

So we have to decide - is that feasible given the claims so far or if there is a tracker lurking , do we want them to CC

[profii]

Rick, whats your read on Kop?

Strong town PR.

I get it

[profii]

Who knows titus well enough to answer this:

The theory that I could be scum in a hood with the traitor is pretty out there - I am sure most would agree.

So do we think Titus is posting this because she is considering a crazy mechanic or has some paranoia over my very close to conf-town status

Or

Is titus the sort of player to raise a crazy theory to appear paranoid, ie does Titus, as town, usually come over a bit more rational with these sorts of theories?


Personally, I think this is town motivated paranoia but I haven't played much and I dont recall playing with Titus (sorry if we have played before!)

[profii]

Titus, Gobble clearly crumbed that he was traitor in 2143, and his first post of the day was 2028 which I think could be a crumb of his role cop results, but I'm not sure how to interpret the italized oven.

I dont understand the 2143 reference

[profii]

proffi can not be scum with gobble. why would gobble be traitor then>

Loss mechanic. White flag partially. Reduce scum power by forcing a game of telephone. Pretty ingenious actually.

doesnt that defeat the point of scum not knowing who the traitor is

That assumes that's the purpose of the traitor.

@Profli, I'm well known for checking out confirming logic. I'm not voting you for a reason, you're not confirmed town though.

I'm assuming you are town unless half the player list jump in and say you are some kind of scum genius that would do this

I said very near to conf town which isnt unfair I think

[profii]

Tbh, some would say I am.

What about Garmr?

Hes on my reading list I'll get back to you

[profii]

I'm not forgetting hectic claimed miller if that helps

[profii]

Nah

[profii]

I mean who cares about town right now, let's find scum

[profii]

JJD if I gifted you a day vig shot right now who would you shoot and why?

[profii]

It's interesting to note in the neighbourhood, we noted somewhat unusually that there isnt a player list of neighbours

So technically there could be a 3rd neighbour who has lurked the entire game (ps hope you are enjoying my stream of consciousness in there )

[profii]

It's interesting to note in the neighbourhood, we noted somewhat unusually that there isnt a player list of neighbours

So technically there could be a 3rd neighbour who has lurked the entire game (ps hope you are enjoying my stream of consciousness in there )

Be interesting if there was a 3rd person who was scum and read your convo believing that he was a gunsmith.

Why do you assume that makes them scum, opposed to me scum them town

[profii]

Gobble talked a lot about a vig, fakeclaimed gunsmith to profii. Why exactly

He fake claimed gunsmith and claimed he checked me n1 - this was like

"I'm so paranoid of you in this hood so I checked you so unless you are a scum doc you are cool let's be masons get in my pocket bro"

[profii]

Okay. No answer?

I'm a loyal fruit vendor. Jjd on N1 and Billy on N2.

I made it obvious that I targeted jjd n1. Made it pretty obvious I was gonna target billy d2. And billy received the fruit.

Now lynch jjd

This was why I asked you about those 2 specific players

You gave different reads so I knew I'd be voting one

I needed to double check the sorts but now its out there

Christ this did not need to be outed at all

[profii]

Softs not sorts

[profii]

VOTE: JJD

[profii]

In my notes I reflected that JJD was really trying to buddy up to me but also I considered he asked me about my personal PT and I thought he was trying to work out if I had a PT but then he said he thought I was trying to work out if he thought I was a cop which I thought was not natural logic... unless he was scum and knew I wasnt in scum PT in which case that would be more logical

It probably doesn't make sense to anyone but me but hey ho

[profii]

Any chance he rolecopped you?

No idea

I told him my role after he said I had no gun as I believed him

I would say it's likely just because if I was him id want to pass info to scum so if i could pocket my hood buddy and get his PR results then it would ultimately help

Obviously being a backup and in theory with tchill alive I am a disappointment to him so unlucky!

[profii]

UNVOTE:
Maybe I'm rushing

[profii]

JJD... are you SURE nothing weird happened last night... like... really sure

So there is this in day 2. I'm happy Cliff did something to JJD n1, or at least that is the narrative he is going with let's say

[profii]

On a serious note, from what I have gathered, I think I essentially have negative town utility

I need to know why cliff said this when it's obvious a loyal fruit is really useful

[profii]

I feel refreshed and full after last night.

Killing the traitor when gobble wasn't particularly townread is interesting. So I'm gonna iso him to see if I can make sense of that.

But also, that's two nights in a row with only one kill. So either theres been a protective that's quite lucky with targets or theres only one killing faction and no vigs.

I immediately figured this was someone who got fruit so that's cool

[profii]

I dont really recall Cliff advocating for JJDs lynch yesterday, despite having a guilty on him

That's why I unvoted

[profii]

JJD - without saying who just yet, did you send any fruit n2 ?

[profii]

I was wondering if JJD was going to claim that he gave Billy the fruit on N2 and did so because Billy claimed VT, ergo, establishing the existance of a fruit and giving some credence to the simple claim.
However, as Billy rightly points out, JJD totally missed the crumb and it was a homing beacon of a crumb, so that is ruled out.

On the Cliff side of things, he was expecting JJD to say he received a fruit and he did not, I think Cliff gave JJD a lot of leeway for essentially having a guilty, but given that Cliff told us his role was a negative utility, which it isn't really either means he didnt understand the power his role posseses or he was scared of claiming a hard guilty for fear of being killed.

I'm inclined to side with Cliff here but I want to check the VC before I re-vote.

[profii]

My guess is either JJD is going to flip as a reflexive role, which explains Cliff's n1 fruit claim or there is another FV somewhere to dilute the power of Cliff's role.

[profii]

could be either alignment if the purpose is just to confuse results but i would assume it would be scum, yes.

[profii]

Just ignore that bit, garmrs narcissism is showing again

[profii]

Cough cough the dead thread of last game where you can't be confronted cough.

try as you might

[profii]

My guess is either JJD is going to flip as a reflexive role, which explains Cliff's n1 fruit claim or there is another FV somewhere to dilute the power of Cliff's role.

Pardon my newb-ness but what do you mean by reflexive role?

it's probably a bit of a stretch. Reflexive can be if you are reflexive and i track you, then your reflexive role would kick in by itself

so in the example, JJDs reflex would be in the scenario of receiving a fruit, to give a fruit back... which is weird so probably unlikely.

[profii]

I was wondering if JJD was going to claim that he gave Billy the fruit on N2 and did so because Billy claimed VT, ergo, establishing the existance of a fruit and giving some credence to the simple claim.
However, as Billy rightly points out, JJD totally missed the crumb and it was a homing beacon of a crumb, so that is ruled out.

On the Cliff side of things, he was expecting JJD to say he received a fruit and he did not, I think Cliff gave JJD a lot of leeway for essentially having a guilty, but given that Cliff told us his role was a negative utility, which it isn't really either means he didnt understand the power his role posseses or he was scared of claiming a hard guilty for fear of being killed.

I'm inclined to side with Cliff here but I want to check the VC before I re-vote.

I think it would be the latter part for Cliffs thinking.

Fruit vendor is not a strong role as such but can demonstrate the truth in your role, but the only hold back is the fact that there is a mafia version of it, so it wouldn't necessarily mean he's 100% town confirmed in my eyes.

do you think JJD might be getting bussed by cliff?

[profii]

Unlike Profii who thinks it's narcissistic

because he always assumes the worse in people and can't self reflect

. It's just another way to view the game and aim for victory.

au contraire mon ami

Your issue lies on your belief that I should have claimed Mason on day 1 to inform the town that the roleblocker(or whatever it was) claim was unlikely

So look at this game- I took your point and revealed I'm the backup tracker after tchill claimed tracker which killed a wagon. It remains to be seen if this stopped a lynch or a mislynch but I assume tchill is town for now so in this example it's all good and we assume something positive has come out of the whole situation

So I can easily point to an example of where I reflected and changed my behaviour based on your feedback despite how stupid I think you look by continuing to try and get say digs in

So why dont you go ahead and get the last word in...

[profii]

JJD - without saying who just yet, did you send any fruit n2 ?

I did. OF COURSE I did.

You could have been x shot but ok

[profii]

Unlike Profii who thinks it's narcissistic

because he always assumes the worse in people and can't self reflect

. It's just another way to view the game and aim for victory.

au contraire mon ami

Your issue lies on your belief that I should have claimed Mason on day 1 to inform the town that the roleblocker(or whatever it was) claim was unlikely

So look at this game- I took your point and revealed I'm the backup tracker after tchill claimed tracker which killed a wagon. It remains to be seen if this stopped a lynch or a mislynch but I assume tchill is town for now so in this example it's all good and we assume something positive has come out of the whole situation

So I can easily point to an example of where I reflected and changed my behaviour based on your feedback despite how stupid I think you look by continuing to try and get say digs in

So why dont you go ahead and get the last word in...

Nah not claim just hammer like you said you would. He was l-1 and both mason were off him...... Don't know where you got the idea I wanted you to claim masons.

I think you look by continuing to try and get say digs in

Kinda like your narcissistic comment. Like I was even talking to you and dropped it

. But you need self awareness to figure that out.

If you are going to go cough cough profii then expect a response. Dont make out like I start any of this as it's simply untrue

[profii]

Unlike Profii who thinks it's narcissistic

because he always assumes the worse in people and can't self reflect

. It's just another way to view the game and aim for victory.

au contraire mon ami

Your issue lies on your belief that I should have claimed Mason on day 1 to inform the town that the roleblocker(or whatever it was) claim was unlikely

So look at this game- I took your point and revealed I'm the backup tracker after tchill claimed tracker which killed a wagon. It remains to be seen if this stopped a lynch or a mislynch but I assume tchill is town for now so in this example it's all good and we assume something positive has come out of the whole situation

So I can easily point to an example of where I reflected and changed my behaviour based on your feedback despite how stupid I think you look by continuing to try and get say digs in

So why dont you go ahead and get the last word in...

Nah not claim just hammer like you said you would. He was l-1 and both mason were off him...... Don't know where you got the idea I wanted you to claim masons.

I think you look by continuing to try and get say digs in

Kinda like your narcissistic comment. Like I was even talking to you and dropped it

. But you need self awareness to figure that out.

If you are going to go cough cough profii then expect a response. Dont make out like I start any of this as it's simply untrue

As untrue as you claiming I wanted you to claim masons day 1? While you don't always start it I will admit. You did this time and refused to acknowledge it. You have a habit of altering what happened in the past to please yourself.

I am not bothered enough to check to be perfectly honest I really dont care. I got the impression you wanted me to say i was a mason. I did not get the impression that you wanted me to just hammer

I have no idea of your exact wording and as I said... who cares

[profii]

But talking about narcissism, trying to rationalise their actions to avoid blame profii is another symptom of it. Are you sure you aren't projecting?

I absolutely love myself brother

[profii]

I do think we need to reduce the JJd wagon until we have thought this through properly

[profii]

@billy

Can I ask why you voted me over JJD. Because I think I was pretty much on point catching Goob trying to tell JJD about his pt.

It shouldn't surprise you honestly, and I'm a bit confused by your reaction. I scumread you the last game you were town when I was town. Theres something about your confidence level that throws me off. Now, maybe you did pick that up. It's also possible that that's not what you think it is.

Hey @Profii was that comment from Gobble around the time that you told JJD you had a pt?

Pedit: Feel better Hectic. Sorry to hear about the chokeslam though a steel chair. Hopefully you can recover and give your problem a stunner.

Which comment?

[profii]

@Profii - what the fuck are you waiting on here? I cant see any scum motivation in what you're doing, but its sure as hell weird.

I'm not hammering until we know why cliff didnt pursue a guilty yesterday?

[profii]

I'm happy for him to see reactions and then answer we dont need to rush - the lynch will be jjd or cliff today so let's get it right

[profii]

Hmm probably scum
Otherwise youd help out with that 2nd fruit issue which is unresolved

[profii]

Large Normal 223 | New Beginnings

Players	Status	Role	Death
Kop	Alive
Billy Pilgrim	Alive
Cliff Booth	Alive
Rick Dalton	Alive
Sharon Tate Alonzo	Dead	Town Macho	Lynched Day 2
Hectic	Alive
EeveeLution Army	Alive
Gamma Emerald	Dead	Town Mason Mailman	Killed Night 1
Judge Joseph Dredd	Alive
Elements	Dead	Town Macho Watcher	Lynched Day 1
Titus	Alive
Hopkirk	Alive
roosterfoster gobbledygook	Dead	Mafia Traitor Rolecop Neighbor	Killed Night 2
Carcalilly	Alive
Garmr	Alive
Tchill13	Alive
davesaz	Alive
profii	Alive
bob3141	Alive
Skellen AaronFrost	Alive
YouAreGreat texcat	Alive

If this flips green, then scum have a FV (may or may not actually be Cliff) or Billy's also scum btw.

Not to mention, if JJD is green, and the role he claimed, and he didn't reveal N2 target, then I'm gonna be a bit annoyed.

Indeed

[profii]

If you dont think you made your crumb obvious Cliff, you didnt really blink when I specifically asked you about JJD and Billy in one post

Surely you should have thought I was on to you and you could have suggested we push JJD at that point - I was essentially asking if you got the same or different results on the 2 slots so we can assume a guilty

I am quite paranoid that you thought your role was a negative utility because it's going to be scum simple fruit vendor and you thought it was role madness

However, Billy's claim of VT has just given you the opportunity to trade 1 for 1 on your n1 target which happens to be JJD, unlucky for him


On the other hand, it's probably paranoia as I wouldn't expect JJD to flip self hammer, so I can only assume that's to kill the day and stop us co-ordinating moves


I mean we dont even have our tracker so if he turns up and has to pick a track we probably want to help him catch up right

[profii]

If you are a loyal fruit vendor he is flipping scum

Past that it's all just paranoia