Alisae V Pine: Trees Apparently Make Good Treestumps
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VOTE: Aristophanes
Last game, Pine first picked Aristophanes to be scum.
Pine would never do the same thing twice.
Therefore, Aristophanes is scum.
My logic is flawless.- mastina
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Skygazer
MariaR
Gamma Emerald
Firebringer
Chickadee
xofelf
chennisden
Dannflor
PenguinPower
Formerfish
Menalque
Pink Ball
Untrod Tripod
Katsuki
GreyICE
Lady Lambdadelta
Krazy
popsofctown
DrippingGoofball
Ankamius
jjh
Aristophanes- mastina
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Would you have it any other way?In post 105, Pine wrote:It's a bit early for a readlist- mastina
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Same.In post 147, Ankamius wrote:I thought I'd get a PR for sure- mastina
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You're at the bottom because you're scum.In post 166, jjh927 wrote:It's one of the 3 valid reasons Mastina could have for putting me near the bottom of her readslist but I won't go into the other 2.- mastina
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Same.In post 201, Alisae wrote:okay I need to get the fuck out of this thread posting is too fucking addicting
bye bye- mastina
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BTW debated on whether or not to actually claim this, but ehhhhh, fuckit, I'll take the risk.
I'm a bulletproof vigilante with a "masonry" (read: neighborhood) with Pine.
Decided to claim because neighbor with confscum, Vig I won't use, and Pine probably already guessed the bp part, so.- mastina
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You commented on Alisae's guess accuracy but not mine. I feel neglected.In post 272, Pine wrote:
Damn. Ali got half of you. This may be more difficult than expected.In post 241, Alisae wrote:Not sure with how willing people are on fire when it comes to that but like also
I really think Pine’s dreamteam is
Firebringer, Gamma Emerald, jjh, the worst, Katsuki, and GreyICE
And if thats the fucking team I am going to shit bricks dude
Pull back the wide-eyed innocence, it's awkward on youIn post 258, GreyICE wrote:
Oh, Pine hands them out for WIFOM purposes. Gee. So Katsuki was goodvoting I see.In post 256, Gamma Emerald wrote:Fruit is a game mechanic, read the OP- mastina
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Skygazer
MariaR
Gamma Emerald
Firebringer
Chickadee
chennisden
Iconeum
Dannflor
PenguinPower
Formerfish
Menalque
Pink Ball
Lady Lambdadelta
Untrod Tripod
Katsuki
xofelf
GreyICE
the worst
Krazy
popsofctown
DrippingGoofball
Ankamius
jjh
Aristophanes- mastina
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Oh I supposed that's something which should be claimed, yeah. Surprised Pine's willing to poke himself.In post 573, Gamma Emerald wrote:I just got a message and now I'm scared
(If you got a message you get this joke.)- mastina
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Oh whoops, it's not into the tree, it's FROM the trees. Joke doesn't work then.- mastina
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Small confession: I've been skimming about 80% of the pages offline: I haven't read every page, there's many pages that I missed, and the pages that I did read I didn't really put more than the bare minimum into.
I haven't been commenting tho because I've wanted to read in detail all the pages and give commentary on key issues, but the thread creating new content faster than I could respond to it makes the task daunting, so the intimidation factor has kept me from weighing in.
There's only about half a dozen (maybe like eight total) posts which I want to respond to, but I can't remember where they are off the top of my head and would need to read to find them.
In the mean time, tho:
LLD, regardless of her alignment, is a distraction.
Town, scum, doesn't matter. Pine wants us to be focusing attention on her.
Personally: while I recognize that there are reasons for both LLD and GreyIce to be scum, I think that at most one of them would be, and that it's quite probable that both are town in spite of my reasons to find them suspect.
Ditto for LLD/xofelf. I recognize the validity of LLD's case, but while I see the logic, I'm not convinced that it's actually right.
I am quite dead serious about my jjh/Aristophanes scumreads; I am sure AT LEAST one of them is scum, quite possibly both.
There's other players who I should give feedback on, but I wanted to do so on a full readslist wallpost where I explain where I am coming from on all of them.- mastina
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My main suspicion on lld is exactly this, the role claim being one which feels more like scum than town, but I can still imagine it as a town role albeit one which doesn't mesh well with others.In post 1891, Alisae wrote:Full Commuter sounds amazing for scum!Lexi tho- mastina
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And.In post 1906, Ankamius wrote:Okay, I'm just going to go into this now because this shit is very relevant to my alignment.
1. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that Jingle almost always drafts me in his first set of picks; if not his first, always his second. He's seen enough of how I playand I've literally HARD STOMPED HIS SCUMTEAMbefore. He's either modded or played in a lot of my stronger games on my main account this year, and he was in my strongest scum game of this year. Because of this,Pine has to draft me first if he wants me on his team. He can't rely on being able to pick me for his team after the first draft, and that's even assuming that he is aware of Jingle and my history on the site.
2. The way I'm playing this game makes absolutely no sense for scum!me. I'm very well aware of my weaknesses as scum, most notably being that I am able to fake the majority of my towntells, but not at the same time. I can't hyperpost, make believable trajectories, AND be consistent tonally at the same time. In this game, I have been among the top posters for a lot of the game, outputted a lot of reads, and yet nobody has been able to pick up on any major tonal discrepancies up to this point. This is my scumgame of the century in the case that I'm actually scum this game.
3. I'm purposely holding myself back. I'm partially doing this because of the hyperposting thing and I don't want to create another Starry Night out of respect for those that don't want very fast games, but the more prevalent reason for why I'm holding myself back is becauseit will not end well if I go hard and start going by my own rules and mindset towards how I play.I work best when I have enough sway over the game to get the flips I need to narrow down the game to a winnable state, and I learned a harsh lesson from Anuket Topaz that when I try to go that route when there's enough leader/rebellious/etc. types in the game, I compromise my own ability to reach the flips I want and tilt out of the game, literally becoming useless to everybody. This playerlist is very very likely to resist me if I go this route and just cause a bunch of drama bullshit in the thread that it really doesn't need. It's better for me to hold back and do what I can from the background to keep the playerlist focused.
4. I'm pretty much always a nightkill by scum this game as town, most likely in midgame somewhere before I hit my stride and start hitting outright solves. I'd be surprised if scum didn't have at least one person that was aware of this, and Pine has seen a recent enough example to believe it.
5. Alisae, this is specifically to you: I've literally never played with Menalque before. I don't know how he plays. He fits the specific type of player I've been trying to hunt for because the way I'm seeing the game, that specific type is the most likely to hold scum. His response to me was horrific. At best, he has a playstyle that will always result in false positives for me, but I don't actually understand what about him is townreadable unless he just has one of those weird playstyles I can't actually read.
What if I told you.
That in my planned readslist wallpost where I'd explain my read on you.
The entirety of what I was going to say was,
"There's only one world in which Ank is town, and that's if Jingle sniped her before Pine could pick her up"?- mastina
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Kind of, yes. Last time that I was town, I caught 2/3 of his scum picks. Not immediately, but before the end of D1.In post 1979, Firebringer wrote:
yes because your such a master at figuring out what pine would do.In post 1972, mastina wrote:"There's only one world in which Ank is town, and that's if Jingle sniped her before Pine could pick her up"?
So, yes.
Statement stands. Ank would only be town if Jingle stole her from Pine. Admittedly that's fully possible; Pine might not first pick her whereas Jingle very well might. But I have very good reason to believe that Pine wanted Ank on his scumteam, and that Jingle wanted her to be town.- mastina
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For what it's worth, while I am a certifiable moron, you'd have to be a whole level of stupid far more than I could ever muster in even my derpiest of moments to Vig Ank N1. That's never the right power role to use on her N1.In post 2009, Alisae wrote:im sorry i was laughing and enjoying myself and you weren't
it was a bad joke- mastina
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Skygazer/Titus
^When it comes to Skygazer, I will admit: I am quite aware that Skygazer is the perfect pocket pick for Pine to make as scum. She's a smooth operator when it comes to worming her way through towns, and yet she's lowkey enough that none would really suspect her of doing so. A solid choice for him to make. So why is she my top townread? Because while I know she'd be a perfect pick for Pine, she's just an obvtown slot.
Plus.
If replacements in this game work anything like in previous iterations of the game.
Pine controls who replaces into his scumteam and Jingle controls who replaces into the town, and Titus is more of a Jingle replacement than a Pine replacement. Yes, there's value in Titus being scum, but it's a pick more likely to come from Jingle.
Ankamius
^I said it before: the only way Ankamius is town is if Jingle sniped her away from Pine before Pine could pick her. The thing is, I actually believe that's exactly what happened. It's dangerous territory to tread, but I legit think that when Pine said that Jingle did snipe away picks from him that he wanted, he was telling the truth--and Ankamius would be an obvious example of exactly that. This is why she's much higher up on my readslist compared to where she previously was.
MariaR
^Pine could pick MariaR because she's an absurdly good scum player and not really the best town player. Could. I don't think he did tho. I admit, I don't have any logic, any reasoning behind this. Just gut, that she's town this game.
Gamma Emerald
^Gamma's similar to MariaR, but better as town and worse as scum. Still GOOD as scum, and reasonably decent as town. So Pine could pick Gamma. I just don't think he did. Again, no reasoning tho. Just gut. I know from experience I can't really read Gamma, but I just FEEL Gamma's town.
Firebringer
^Firebringer is the ultimate slot of me being utterly unable to read him. Like, I think my read accuracy on him sits at some impressive number like out of 40 games having it at like 5%? No joke, it's that low. I can't read him and I don't really have a metric for whether Pine would recruit him or not. He's an underestimated player regardless of his alignment. Skilled town, skilled scum, but with a playstyle which makes you think he's neither. So he'd be a decent pick for Pine, I know this. And I also know that I can't read him. But in spite of that. I agree with those who say he looks town; if I had to guess, I would think exactly that.
Chickadee
^Honestly the only way Chickadee is scum is if Pine deliberately chose her as a pocket pick nobody would expect, think like the Aristophanes of last game. Admittedly, that's not impossible--after all, Pine did in fact pick Aristophanes last game. But while it's not impossible, I don't think it particularly probable. I'm not really feeling Chickadee as scum. This feels like her usual towngame performances I've seen. Admittedly, I am unfamiliar with her scumgame; I have seen her multiple times as town but I can't recall the last time she was scum. So this is a flawed perspective especially since Pine gives coaching to his partners on how to play. But push come to shove, lacking any alternative assessment, she's town to me.
Pink Ball
^This is probably Pink Ball's towngame. It's not definitive. It's questionable. But I'm willing to take the gamble on it. Sure, he's underperforming, but I don't think the underperformance is because he's scum; I actually think if anything it's kinda proof that he's town. I do think that Pink Ball could be selected by Pine; he knows PB's good regardless of his alignment, denying him from the town would be smart and he'd still deliver as scum. But if I had to guess, I'd say he didn't.
Iconeum
^If Iconeum has contributed content, I've missed it in my not-very-thorough reading of the game. He's someone Pine could select as a pocket pick; he's not incompetent as scum and is someone who can fly under the radar for ages. I initially placed him under chennisden (see below) for exactly this reason. However, that having been said. I've seen Iconeum as scum recently. He doesn't seem to be the same Iconeum from that game, and that's why I bumped him up to here; I know I should probably investigate this more, but for now I'm okay calling him weakly town.
chennisden
^This is about where my null list starts. I don't have a read on chennis one way or another. I also have no clue how Pine would assess him.
Dannflor
^Dannflor is an amazing town player but I've zero idea how Pine would think of him in terms of selecting him as a scumbuddy. That having been said: his play this game is incredibly underwhelming given what he's capable of. It's a little bit iffy as a result.
PenguinPower
^Honestly does PP play the game much regardless of his alignment? I get the impression that regardless of his alignment 95+% of his posting's just going to be memeing. Pine could easily select PP, but I've no gauge on whether he actually did or not.
Formerfish
^Formerfish is another player who, in spite of his content thusfar, I'm finding difficult to get a grasp on. He's the kind of pocket pick I can see Pine making, but I can't really tell if Pine did or not.
Menalque
^To be honest. Menalque's someone I probably scumread regardless of his alignment, not gonna lie here. I believe we've played twice together and I scumread him both times--sure, in one game he was scum, but in the other game he was town and I'm not sure I can tell the difference between the two. I can say that as town he seemed to give more content than as scum, which would be a bad sign for him this game, but he's also not exactly showing the things I'd expect from him as scum, which is a promising sign.
Untrod Tripod/xReckonerx
^Pine knows that UT can carry a scumgame and Reck is the type of replacement Pine would love to make. So I can easily see this being a scum slot. That having been said. While I can see it as a scum slot, there's nothing which makes me convinced it IS a scum slot. Gun to my head I'd actually lean otherwise, which honestly makes me think he might be placed too low, but I've been debating on whether he's too high or too low on my readslist a lot because I'm weary of the slot, which is why he's here.
GreyICE
^There are reasons GreyICE could be town. Namely, if LLD is scum then GreyICE isn't because while they COULD bus like this easily and it's within their scum metas to do so in this fashion, I don't think Pine would approve--not because of any strategic reason, mind you. Just because the resulting gamestate from their fight is INCREDIBLY unfun and Pine wouldn't want to win because his scumteam orchestrated an unfun gamestate for the game.
There are also fairly strong reasons for GreyICE to be scum.
He's used meta, when he is a strong proponent of meta being bullshit.
His play is vastly underwhelming because aside from pushing LLD he's done basically nothing.
He's someone that Pine knows is good at both town and scum and is someone Pine could easily pick to get some oldguard in the game.
So overall this is where my "could be scum" list starts.
Katsuki
^Pine picked Katsuki as a replacement in the first iteration of this game for damn good reason. Katsuki's a skilled scum player, who also has a knack for pulling impressive townplays if left unchecked, so picking Katsuki is a good denial pick. That having been said, while I think Katsuki's play here could be scum, I know that Katsuki's alignment should become more obvious as the game progresses and right now I'm not sure it's scum.
DrippingGoofball
^Honestly DGB's a bit past her prime. She used to be one of the best town/scum players in the old meta but in the current meta she's only so-so. She's this low for a combination of "Pine could pick her because of nostalgia and hoping to bring back her at her prime" and her play being vastly underwhelming, but that having been said, similar to UT/Reck, I've debated on her positioning here; I almost put her much much higher in my readslist because I'm not convinced she's scum.
xofelf
^When I made my original readslist, xofelf was quite high up. This was through a combination of reasons. I didn't believe Pine would be a dick enough to make her be scum and have such an unfun time and I liked the content which she had given. LLD's case made me reconsider both of these points. I am notconvincedthat LLD's case was on the money, on point, accurate and correct. But if nothing else I admit it hasmeritto it, and the idea is certainly at least plausible. I'm not convinced it'sprobable, but the plausibility of Pine picking xofelf as scum exists enough for her to be about here.
Lady Lambdadelta
^Honestly my main suspicion on LLD is the Commuter claim in that it is a role that Pine would want more than Jingle would, it is a role which feels like there's better players for Jingle to give it to, and it is a role that feels like it'd mesh poorly with other town roles in the setup. These are all very solid reasons for LLD's claim to be suspect. But I can also see the other side; I can understand why LLD's Commuter role could be something Jingle would give her. I understand that Commuter IS a role Jingle could use, in spite of it probably meshing poorly with other town roles in the setup; I actually can see the logic and reasoning behind Jingle giving it to her even if I think there's better choices.
From a pick perspective, LLD would be a player of high value to Pine, but also to Jingle. She is a VERY strong scum player and a damn good town player, too. She is also an obvious choice for Pine to pick--Pine can choose obvious choices, but he's under no obligation to do so. Plus, there's the whole matter of how regardless of her alignment, she's a distraction.
Ali, I disagree that lynching her removes her as a distraction. You know why? Because once she flips, regardless of what she flips, the division between the town established today from the two sides, those fighting for her being scum and those fighting for her being town, will continue after her death. Whichever side was right will feel vindicated and the distraction will remain after her demise as a consequence of this interaction.
If I had to give a guess, my guess would actually be that she's town. My heart wants her to be scum because I want to believe in the players pushing her as being scum having the right reasoning, having locked on to accurate facts, good sound logic that holds true. But I'm somewhat skeptical of this. I can't really articulate why I'm skeptical, so call the skepticism gut if you must. I'm just hesitant to commit here because while I objectively see all the reasons for her to be scum, something about it doesn't feel right.
Also, sidenote: the jjh-Aristophanes division on her feels ridiculously orchestrated by Pine.
popsofctown
^I'll be honest, I don't really have much of a read here and have no clue how Pine would treat pops. Pops is this low purely through gut reaction of me not liking what I've seen. I've no judgement on the accuracy of this gut, but it's all I'm going on.
the worst
^If the worst is town this game, he is vastly, VASTLY underperforming. This feels a lot more like his scumgame than his towngame to me. He's also the kind of player I think that Pine's more likely to pick and while I can see Jingle having selected him, I think that balance of probabilities, this is probably not his towngame. I know that the worst can as town have vastly underwhelming performances as town and that the worst as scum doesn't necessarily underperform. But I just feel like it's more likely in this case for this game that the worst is scum underperforming not town underperforming.
Krazy
^So my thoughts on Krazy can be summed up as: If Pine picked Krazy to be scum, it would be a dick move. Pine would know from experience that Krazy is burned out from playing scum and wouldn't have much fun in the role. Pine would know that while Krazy is an amazing town player, he's only so-so as a scum player. But the reason I think that Pine could pick Krazy in spite of it being a dick move is a combination of:
1: Pine could feel that, with his involvement in the scum PT, he could revitalize Krazy's scumplay. He could see it as a challenge, to try and make Krazy have fun in a role he currently abhors.
2: Pine could value Krazy as a player to help balance and round out his scumteam composition.
3: Pine could pick Krazy to deny the town access to one of its better scumhunters, which is especially true if Pine was denied the chance to grab Ankamius. (You don't want Ankamius and Krazy to be able to work together.)
4: Krazy is not an obvious choice to pick, which means that Pine could get away with it without anybody really thinking about it.
Probably more reasons that I am forgetting about.
So there's a case to be made both ways. I can see Pine thinking Krazy's a good pick; I can see Pine not picking Krazy. Heck, I can even see Jingle denying Pine the chance to pick Krazy albeit not as likely as with Ank.
So why is Krazy so low?
Because my stance on him thusfar this game can be summed up as such: I haven't seen anything which makes me particularly townread him, nor have I seen anything which makes me particularly scumread him.
The last time I had that stance on him...he was scum.
So I think that it's more likely that he's scum.
jjh
^jjh is a scumread because simply put he's scum this game.
Aristophanes
^You know my initial joke reasoning for scumreading Ari? Not in any way a joke. Aristophanes was a clutch pick by Pine last game. The entirety of the scumteam--Aristophanes included--thought that Pine first picking Aristophanes last game was basically Pine trolling/borderline gamethrowing. But last game, the entire reason the scumteam won was BECAUSE Pine first picked Aristophanes as scum.
Now, Pine probably, legitimately, wouldn't first pick Aristophanes as scum again, that much is probably true. But I still think that Pine picked Aristophanes as scum anyway. In part, because people wouldn't think he'd do it twice. In part, because Aristophanes is fun to have as a scumbuddy. In part, because Aristophanes would be a glue to help hold the team comp whatever it is together. In part, because Aristophanes still had room to grow and one of the things Pine likes to do in these games is to coach his scumbuddies into growing as scum players, to become better at scumplay than they were before and Aristophanes still had room to grow.
Aristophanes had stated that he always has looked up to me to perform well as scum and while I'm not scum this game so he wouldn't have me to be that direct source of inspiration, he'd still have good reason to try and impress, to do his best, to exceed any and all expectations of him as scum. And I think that his play here is exactly that. I think that his play here is his evolved top-form scumplay, not his signature townplay.
I realize that I have far too few townreads and far too many suspects and far far FAR too many people who I am wishy-washy about. But this is the best I can offer given this gamestate.- mastina
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Explicitly so, yes? Some of the picks I don't see the worth in them--that doesn't mean that there isn't any worth in them. If there were a player Pine wouldn't at leastIn post 2641, Gamma Emerald wrote:You know mastina you make some good point but some of them if seems like you don't see the worthplausiblyhave reason to recruit, simply put: they wouldn't be in this game. Every player has at least a possible reason Pine would want them. But while I feel like I have at least a reasonable grasp on many of these reasons, fucked if I know what all of them would be.
I generally have reasonably good psychological profiles of players and have some idea of Pine's own profiles of players but explicitly these two profiles while there's overlap are not identical. My psychological profiles won't match his psychological profiles perfectly so there will always be picks where I don't see the worth in them that he does and there will always be picks that I see the worth in them which barely if at all entered into his mind.- mastina
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mastina SheFalse Prophet
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Apparently.In post 2642, Krazy wrote:
Huh? I mean I know I'm not one to comment on an empty iso, but are we reading a different set of ten posts or something?In post 2637, mastina wrote:Because while I know she'd be a perfect pick for Pine, she's just an obvtown slot.
Not gonna outright say I won't do that sometime, but will decline to do so right now. Just not in the mood to be honest.In post 2643, jjh927 wrote:Mastina, do you want to maybe talk to me now that it's absolutely certain you're not doing that thing where you pretend to scumread me and see who jumps on- mastina
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VOTE: Krazy.
May or may not be counted depending on whether a hammer has happened or not, but doesn't matter--this is a statement on read strength. Aristophanes is still scum; jjh is still scum. But Krazy went from probably scum to just definitely scum.- mastina
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To be clear I recognize that there are three other scum in the game and while I have reads which suggest that they could be some players those reads aren't definitive.In post 2974, mastina wrote:VOTE: Krazy.
May or may not be counted depending on whether a hammer has happened or not, but doesn't matter--this is a statement on read strength. Aristophanes is still scum; jjh is still scum. But Krazy went from probably scum to just definitely scum.
These three are scum tho so my vote won't leave one of those three.- mastina
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Basically: players like xofelf could be one of the three other scum.In post 2977, mastina wrote:
To be clear I recognize that there are three other scum in the game and while I have reads which suggest that they could be some players those reads aren't definitive.In post 2974, mastina wrote:VOTE: Krazy.
May or may not be counted depending on whether a hammer has happened or not, but doesn't matter--this is a statement on read strength. Aristophanes is still scum; jjh is still scum. But Krazy went from probably scum to just definitely scum.
These three are scum tho so my vote won't leave one of those three.
I recognize that.
But I'll be voting the definite scum over the possible, plausible, or even probable scum. Because definite scum > probable scum > plausible scum > possible scum.
And Krazy, jjh, and Aristophanes are all lockscum.- mastina
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Sorry that I am quoting the whole post with no spoilers, but phoneposting makes edits/spoiler tags difficult.In post 2637, mastina wrote:Skygazer/Titus
^When it comes to Skygazer, I will admit: I am quite aware that Skygazer is the perfect pocket pick for Pine to make as scum. She's a smooth operator when it comes to worming her way through towns, and yet she's lowkey enough that none would really suspect her of doing so. A solid choice for him to make. So why is she my top townread? Because while I know she'd be a perfect pick for Pine, she's just an obvtown slot.
Plus.
If replacements in this game work anything like in previous iterations of the game.
Pine controls who replaces into his scumteam and Jingle controls who replaces into the town, and Titus is more of a Jingle replacement than a Pine replacement. Yes, there's value in Titus being scum, but it's a pick more likely to come from Jingle.
Ankamius
^I said it before: the only way Ankamius is town is if Jingle sniped her away from Pine before Pine could pick her. The thing is, I actually believe that's exactly what happened. It's dangerous territory to tread, but I legit think that when Pine said that Jingle did snipe away picks from him that he wanted, he was telling the truth--and Ankamius would be an obvious example of exactly that. This is why she's much higher up on my readslist compared to where she previously was.
MariaR
^Pine could pick MariaR because she's an absurdly good scum player and not really the best town player. Could. I don't think he did tho. I admit, I don't have any logic, any reasoning behind this. Just gut, that she's town this game.
Gamma Emerald
^Gamma's similar to MariaR, but better as town and worse as scum. Still GOOD as scum, and reasonably decent as town. So Pine could pick Gamma. I just don't think he did. Again, no reasoning tho. Just gut. I know from experience I can't really read Gamma, but I just FEEL Gamma's town.
Firebringer
^Firebringer is the ultimate slot of me being utterly unable to read him. Like, I think my read accuracy on him sits at some impressive number like out of 40 games having it at like 5%? No joke, it's that low. I can't read him and I don't really have a metric for whether Pine would recruit him or not. He's an underestimated player regardless of his alignment. Skilled town, skilled scum, but with a playstyle which makes you think he's neither. So he'd be a decent pick for Pine, I know this. And I also know that I can't read him. But in spite of that. I agree with those who say he looks town; if I had to guess, I would think exactly that.
Chickadee
^Honestly the only way Chickadee is scum is if Pine deliberately chose her as a pocket pick nobody would expect, think like the Aristophanes of last game. Admittedly, that's not impossible--after all, Pine did in fact pick Aristophanes last game. But while it's not impossible, I don't think it particularly probable. I'm not really feeling Chickadee as scum. This feels like her usual towngame performances I've seen. Admittedly, I am unfamiliar with her scumgame; I have seen her multiple times as town but I can't recall the last time she was scum. So this is a flawed perspective especially since Pine gives coaching to his partners on how to play. But push come to shove, lacking any alternative assessment, she's town to me.
Pink Ball
^This is probably Pink Ball's towngame. It's not definitive. It's questionable. But I'm willing to take the gamble on it. Sure, he's underperforming, but I don't think the underperformance is because he's scum; I actually think if anything it's kinda proof that he's town. I do think that Pink Ball could be selected by Pine; he knows PB's good regardless of his alignment, denying him from the town would be smart and he'd still deliver as scum. But if I had to guess, I'd say he didn't.
Iconeum
^If Iconeum has contributed content, I've missed it in my not-very-thorough reading of the game. He's someone Pine could select as a pocket pick; he's not incompetent as scum and is someone who can fly under the radar for ages. I initially placed him under chennisden (see below) for exactly this reason. However, that having been said. I've seen Iconeum as scum recently. He doesn't seem to be the same Iconeum from that game, and that's why I bumped him up to here; I know I should probably investigate this more, but for now I'm okay calling him weakly town.
chennisden
^This is about where my null list starts. I don't have a read on chennis one way or another. I also have no clue how Pine would assess him.
Dannflor
^Dannflor is an amazing town player but I've zero idea how Pine would think of him in terms of selecting him as a scumbuddy. That having been said: his play this game is incredibly underwhelming given what he's capable of. It's a little bit iffy as a result.
PenguinPower
^Honestly does PP play the game much regardless of his alignment? I get the impression that regardless of his alignment 95+% of his posting's just going to be memeing. Pine could easily select PP, but I've no gauge on whether he actually did or not.
Formerfish
^Formerfish is another player who, in spite of his content thusfar, I'm finding difficult to get a grasp on. He's the kind of pocket pick I can see Pine making, but I can't really tell if Pine did or not.
Menalque
^To be honest. Menalque's someone I probably scumread regardless of his alignment, not gonna lie here. I believe we've played twice together and I scumread him both times--sure, in one game he was scum, but in the other game he was town and I'm not sure I can tell the difference between the two. I can say that as town he seemed to give more content than as scum, which would be a bad sign for him this game, but he's also not exactly showing the things I'd expect from him as scum, which is a promising sign.
Untrod Tripod/xReckonerx
^Pine knows that UT can carry a scumgame and Reck is the type of replacement Pine would love to make. So I can easily see this being a scum slot. That having been said. While I can see it as a scum slot, there's nothing which makes me convinced it IS a scum slot. Gun to my head I'd actually lean otherwise, which honestly makes me think he might be placed too low, but I've been debating on whether he's too high or too low on my readslist a lot because I'm weary of the slot, which is why he's here.
GreyICE
^There are reasons GreyICE could be town. Namely, if LLD is scum then GreyICE isn't because while they COULD bus like this easily and it's within their scum metas to do so in this fashion, I don't think Pine would approve--not because of any strategic reason, mind you. Just because the resulting gamestate from their fight is INCREDIBLY unfun and Pine wouldn't want to win because his scumteam orchestrated an unfun gamestate for the game.
There are also fairly strong reasons for GreyICE to be scum.
He's used meta, when he is a strong proponent of meta being bullshit.
His play is vastly underwhelming because aside from pushing LLD he's done basically nothing.
He's someone that Pine knows is good at both town and scum and is someone Pine could easily pick to get some oldguard in the game.
So overall this is where my "could be scum" list starts.
Katsuki
^Pine picked Katsuki as a replacement in the first iteration of this game for damn good reason. Katsuki's a skilled scum player, who also has a knack for pulling impressive townplays if left unchecked, so picking Katsuki is a good denial pick. That having been said, while I think Katsuki's play here could be scum, I know that Katsuki's alignment should become more obvious as the game progresses and right now I'm not sure it's scum.
DrippingGoofball
^Honestly DGB's a bit past her prime. She used to be one of the best town/scum players in the old meta but in the current meta she's only so-so. She's this low for a combination of "Pine could pick her because of nostalgia and hoping to bring back her at her prime" and her play being vastly underwhelming, but that having been said, similar to UT/Reck, I've debated on her positioning here; I almost put her much much higher in my readslist because I'm not convinced she's scum.
xofelf
^When I made my original readslist, xofelf was quite high up. This was through a combination of reasons. I didn't believe Pine would be a dick enough to make her be scum and have such an unfun time and I liked the content which she had given. LLD's case made me reconsider both of these points. I am notconvincedthat LLD's case was on the money, on point, accurate and correct. But if nothing else I admit it hasmeritto it, and the idea is certainly at least plausible. I'm not convinced it'sprobable, but the plausibility of Pine picking xofelf as scum exists enough for her to be about here.
Lady Lambdadelta
^Honestly my main suspicion on LLD is the Commuter claim in that it is a role that Pine would want more than Jingle would, it is a role which feels like there's better players for Jingle to give it to, and it is a role that feels like it'd mesh poorly with other town roles in the setup. These are all very solid reasons for LLD's claim to be suspect. But I can also see the other side; I can understand why LLD's Commuter role could be something Jingle would give her. I understand that Commuter IS a role Jingle could use, in spite of it probably meshing poorly with other town roles in the setup; I actually can see the logic and reasoning behind Jingle giving it to her even if I think there's better choices.
From a pick perspective, LLD would be a player of high value to Pine, but also to Jingle. She is a VERY strong scum player and a damn good town player, too. She is also an obvious choice for Pine to pick--Pine can choose obvious choices, but he's under no obligation to do so. Plus, there's the whole matter of how regardless of her alignment, she's a distraction.
Ali, I disagree that lynching her removes her as a distraction. You know why? Because once she flips, regardless of what she flips, the division between the town established today from the two sides, those fighting for her being scum and those fighting for her being town, will continue after her death. Whichever side was right will feel vindicated and the distraction will remain after her demise as a consequence of this interaction.
If I had to give a guess, my guess would actually be that she's town. My heart wants her to be scum because I want to believe in the players pushing her as being scum having the right reasoning, having locked on to accurate facts, good sound logic that holds true. But I'm somewhat skeptical of this. I can't really articulate why I'm skeptical, so call the skepticism gut if you must. I'm just hesitant to commit here because while I objectively see all the reasons for her to be scum, something about it doesn't feel right.
Also, sidenote: the jjh-Aristophanes division on her feels ridiculously orchestrated by Pine.
popsofctown
^I'll be honest, I don't really have much of a read here and have no clue how Pine would treat pops. Pops is this low purely through gut reaction of me not liking what I've seen. I've no judgement on the accuracy of this gut, but it's all I'm going on.
the worst
^If the worst is town this game, he is vastly, VASTLY underperforming. This feels a lot more like his scumgame than his towngame to me. He's also the kind of player I think that Pine's more likely to pick and while I can see Jingle having selected him, I think that balance of probabilities, this is probably not his towngame. I know that the worst can as town have vastly underwhelming performances as town and that the worst as scum doesn't necessarily underperform. But I just feel like it's more likely in this case for this game that the worst is scum underperforming not town underperforming.
Krazy
^So my thoughts on Krazy can be summed up as: If Pine picked Krazy to be scum, it would be a dick move. Pine would know from experience that Krazy is burned out from playing scum and wouldn't have much fun in the role. Pine would know that while Krazy is an amazing town player, he's only so-so as a scum player. But the reason I think that Pine could pick Krazy in spite of it being a dick move is a combination of:
1: Pine could feel that, with his involvement in the scum PT, he could revitalize Krazy's scumplay. He could see it as a challenge, to try and make Krazy have fun in a role he currently abhors.
2: Pine could value Krazy as a player to help balance and round out his scumteam composition.
3: Pine could pick Krazy to deny the town access to one of its better scumhunters, which is especially true if Pine was denied the chance to grab Ankamius. (You don't want Ankamius and Krazy to be able to work together.)
4: Krazy is not an obvious choice to pick, which means that Pine could get away with it without anybody really thinking about it.
Probably more reasons that I am forgetting about.
So there's a case to be made both ways. I can see Pine thinking Krazy's a good pick; I can see Pine not picking Krazy. Heck, I can even see Jingle denying Pine the chance to pick Krazy albeit not as likely as with Ank.
So why is Krazy so low?
Because my stance on him thusfar this game can be summed up as such: I haven't seen anything which makes me particularly townread him, nor have I seen anything which makes me particularly scumread him.
The last time I had that stance on him...he was scum.
So I think that it's more likely that he's scum.
jjh
^jjh is a scumread because simply put he's scum this game.
Aristophanes
^You know my initial joke reasoning for scumreading Ari? Not in any way a joke. Aristophanes was a clutch pick by Pine last game. The entirety of the scumteam--Aristophanes included--thought that Pine first picking Aristophanes last game was basically Pine trolling/borderline gamethrowing. But last game, the entire reason the scumteam won was BECAUSE Pine first picked Aristophanes as scum.
Now, Pine probably, legitimately, wouldn't first pick Aristophanes as scum again, that much is probably true. But I still think that Pine picked Aristophanes as scum anyway. In part, because people wouldn't think he'd do it twice. In part, because Aristophanes is fun to have as a scumbuddy. In part, because Aristophanes would be a glue to help hold the team comp whatever it is together. In part, because Aristophanes still had room to grow and one of the things Pine likes to do in these games is to coach his scumbuddies into growing as scum players, to become better at scumplay than they were before and Aristophanes still had room to grow.
Aristophanes had stated that he always has looked up to me to perform well as scum and while I'm not scum this game so he wouldn't have me to be that direct source of inspiration, he'd still have good reason to try and impress, to do his best, to exceed any and all expectations of him as scum. And I think that his play here is exactly that. I think that his play here is his evolved top-form scumplay, not his signature townplay.
I realize that I have far too few townreads and far too many suspects and far far FAR too many people who I am wishy-washy about. But this is the best I can offer given this gamestate.
I wanted to give some updated thoughts:
I am now more sure about both Chickadee and Pink Ball being town. Dannflor shoots way up to near the top of the townlist, just below Ank. Former fish is tentatively a weak townread. PP is too high; I remembered that Pine would remember how PP mislynched him, demonstrating the value of PP as scum. How much lower, not sure, but he's too high up right now.
Menalque, not sure that he's town enough to be a townread, but he's probably too low on the list.
IF LLD is scum (her attempted self hammer makes that look likely, but it's not definitive), both GreyIce and Katsuki become strong townreads. If lld flips town, they remain where they are.
Notably: regardless of llds flip, xofelfs position doesn't change. This is because if lld is scum, there's the very real chance that her xofelf case was pushing the player she perceived as the weak link on her scumteam.
So regardless of town or scum, xofelf remains plausible scum. She could be town with lld mistaken/pushing for the mislynch; she could be scum lld nailed/decided to bus. I can see it any of those four ways and cannot yet tell which is the most likely.
Still, given that: will lynch jjh, Ari, or Krazy.- mastina
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I will admit that in my skimming through the thread it is fully possible that I missed your questions, but I can tell you that if I saw any questions I thought were worth answering I'd have already answered them.In post 3179, Aristophanes wrote:Hey mastina I think I asked you some questions. Care to respond?- mastina
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Mostly lack of interest. If my scumread on you is wrong, you don't need me to explain the erroneous scumread; all you need to do is prove that you are town, something which if you are town you will do without me needing to prompt you on it. Thus far, you have not. But if you are town, you'll do it on your own, given the appropriate time.In post 3182, jjh927 wrote:Like, I'm pretty sure you can give reasoning so I don't understand why you are avoiding it
If my scumread on you is right,then I only need to explain it when I am pushing for your lynch. That's not happening today and frankly probably isn't happening tomorrow, either.
Either way, I don't really see a need to explain it. I don't see a need to engage you on it. Mind you, that doesn't mean that I have no reason to engage with you; bring up a subject with me which isn't about yourself and I guarantee you that I will either engage with you or if I don't, my lack of engagement is utterly unrelated to you/my scumread and said lack of engagement would exist even if it were Ank making a literally identical post. (Basically, I can't promise that I would engage with you because frankly sometimes I am just not in the mood to engage, but I can promise you that if I failed to engage with you about a non-you-centric subject, said lack of engagement is purely lack of desire to engage with anyone, with you not being singled out.)- mastina
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BTW on the logic of, "If LLD is scum, Ari must be town because Aristophanes wouldn't hard defend a scumbuddy like that":
No.
Just no.
That logic literally couldn't be any more wrong.
1: Pine is adverse to bussing. He will bus when necessary, but in general dislikes it. While I expect some scum contributed to the lld lynch, more of the scumteam is either going to be neutral or in defense of her.
2: Pine is fond of forming scumblocs. He will encourage scum to defend, even hard defend, each other. That doesn't mean that everyone defending lld is automatically suspect, but it does mean that you should never clear a player for said hard defense of scum.
3: Pine loves to take advantage of "scum would never do that!", and hard defending a scumbuddy is absolutely in this category.
4: Even without Pine's influence, I can envision a scum Aristophanes defending a scumbuddy, because it feels like the kind of move that he would think of.
Also, obviously the whole defense rides on lld flipping scum. Given her attempted self hammer, this is the far more likely outcome of course, but in the event lld flips town, there's a much simpler name for what Ari did: scum whiteknighting the mislynch for cheap towncred.- mastina
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Lazy vca, assuming lld flips scum:In post 3132, Jingle wrote:
The lld wagon is mostly towndriven. Even if every possible scum on the wagon was scum (the worst, Krazy, jjh, pops), it'd still be 9.5/13.5 town voting her. And that is the MAXIMUM number of scum. Far more likely is 1-3, let's say two.
If lld is scum, and if we go with two scum on, that's three off. Possibilities: chennis, Ari, PP, DGB, xofelf, Reck.
Of that grouping, I'd go Ari > PP = xofelf > DGB = Reck = chennis.
On the wagon, of the four possible scum, it'd go:
Krazy > jjh > the worst > pops.
Those ten most likely contain five scum.
The trick lies in finding which five man combo it is.
My guess of guesses: Ari, PP or xofelf lean PP, Krazy, the worst, jjh or pops with outside chance of chennis.
This is just a hypothetical guess as to a coherent scumteam pick tho. It doesn't reflect read strength; read strength and scumteam guesses not being one and the same is a concept I'm not sure how to explain so hopefully you get the idea without me needing to.
Basically, for my reads, refer to my readslist wall post; for the most likely scumteam combo, refer to here; the two aren't identical even though there is significant overlap between the two.- mastina
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Speaking of the readslist, to give it without the accompanying wall:
Skygazer/Titus
Ankamius
Dannflor
LLD-scum GreyIce
LLD-scum Katsuki
Chickadee
Pink Ball
MariaR
Gamma Emerald
Firebringer
Formerfish
Iconeum
Menalque
Untrod Tripod/xReckonerx
chennisden
DrippingGoofBall
PenguinPower
xofelf
LLD-town Katsuki
LLD-town GreyIce
popsofctown
the worst
jjh
Aristophanes
Krazy
Thereabouts. This is the best I can give.- mastina
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Fuck this game.In post 3254, the worst wrote:super rushed ISO check I think she crumbed Mastina
I am a bodyguard.
I bodyguarded Ankamius last night.- mastina
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Not a fakeclaim:In post 3267, Firebringer wrote:
ohh go fuck yourself. stop fake claiming.In post 3266, mastina wrote:
Fuck this game.In post 3254, the worst wrote:super rushed ISO check I think she crumbed Mastina
I am a bodyguard.
I bodyguarded Ankamius last night.
You know what IS the right power to use on Ank N1?In post 2013, mastina wrote:
For what it's worth, while I am a certifiable moron, you'd have to be a whole level of stupid far more than I could ever muster in even my derpiest of moments to Vig Ank N1.In post 2009, Alisae wrote:im sorry i was laughing and enjoying myself and you weren't
it was a bad jokeThat's never the right power role to use on her N1.
A protective, because she will ALWAYS die N1.- mastina
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Yeah if you think that's not a real 'crumb you don't know fucking shit.In post 3273, Firebringer wrote:
You do this everytime you fake claim. Ive seen it a dozen times. You rewrite history of your posts to pertend you crumbed shit. Stop lying.In post 3271, mastina wrote:You know what IS the right power to use on Ank N1?A protective, because she will ALWAYS die N1.
I PMd the mod about my role, twice, talking about it. Once was telling Jingle "You know I'll never get a successful protection off, right?"
The other was exactly that: telling him, "You know what IS the right role to use on Ank N1?" more or less.
Then there was also submitting the night action where I said that Pine was probably killing someone he thought was a mason, but fuckit, that I was protecting Ank because I wouldn't be able to predict who he'd kill when mason-hunting but COULD predict who would be a probable nightkill.
There is no other player in the game who I would've protected N1.
Least of all given she was my second strongest townread D1.- mastina
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Actually I just realized the mod has incredibly lax rules on quoting. You know what that means?In post 3287, mastina wrote:
Yeah if you think that's not a real 'crumb you don't know fucking shit.In post 3273, Firebringer wrote:
You do this everytime you fake claim. Ive seen it a dozen times. You rewrite history of your posts to pertend you crumbed shit. Stop lying.In post 3271, mastina wrote:You know what IS the right power to use on Ank N1?A protective, because she will ALWAYS die N1.
I PMd the mod about my role, twice, talking about it. Once was telling Jingle "You know I'll never get a successful protection off, right?"
The other was exactly that: telling him, "You know what IS the right role to use on Ank N1?" more or less.
Then there was also submitting the night action where I said that Pine was probably killing someone he thought was a mason, but fuckit, that I was protecting Ank because I wouldn't be able to predict who he'd kill when mason-hunting but COULD predict who would be a probable nightkill.
There is no other player in the game who I would've protected N1.
Least of all given she was my second strongest townread D1.
I can fucking prove it.
Jingle sent me my role PM at about 11:30 am on Saturday. I'm a Bodyguard Loyal Retainer. Each night, I may target a player. Any attempts to kill that player will fail. If I successfully prevent a kill this way, I will die instead.
At 2 PM, I said "You know that bodyguard is a role which I'll never successfully use, right?"
Jingle's response to this:
At about 2:10 pm.
On Wednesday, at 7:15 pm, I told Jingle in a PM:
Quoting this post,
Guess what IS the right power role to use on her N1?
(I love breadcrumbs.)
Then on Friday at 11:22 pm I submitted to Jingle,
Bodyguard: Ankamius
Pine's probably shooting at someone he thinks is a mason but fuckit.
This should be legal by Jingle's rules to quote.
So yes I can fucking prove I am a fucking bodyguard who bodyguarded Ank.- mastina
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You know my claim D1 was, explicitly, a joke right?In post 3304, Dannflor wrote:I don't see what Mastina gains by changing her claim now to a failed protective
I have none of those things.
I don't have a neighborhood with Pine.
I don't have a bulletproof (though I considered intentionally "typo"ing 'bp' into 'bg', but when I checked the keyboard and realized how far away the p and g keys were, I decided against it because I thought it might be too obvious if I did).
And I don't have a vig.
That claim was made because I thought it'd both be fun and funny--to get a laugh out of Pine.
It was obviously not my real role.
Like, people immediately after I claimed it called me out on it not being my real role and no fucking duh it wasn't? It was something I thought would give Pine some entertainment, my logic more or less being that in a game designed around the concept of him messing with us, I might as well mess with him back. (But that post contained a kernel of truth, in that I did fully expect for Pine to have figured out what my actual role was. I wasn't playing like a bulletproof role; I was playing as a role with a finite lifespan that was supposed to get itself killed early on. Which is why I went out of my way to provide my readslist; I knew that if I did my job, D1 would be my only chance to do so.)- mastina
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mastina SheFalse Prophet
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I knew I'd get a PR.
This is where I considered making the typo of bg instead of bp, but opted against doing so.In post 330, mastina wrote:Pine probably already guessed the bp part, so.
The reason I said this? Because Bodyguard and Commuter are roles that don't mesh well together. What 'others' would I be referring to if not my own role? I thought I was all-but giving away the fact that I legit was a PR by saying this.In post 1903, mastina wrote:
My main suspicion on lld is exactly this, the role claim being one which feels more like scum than town, but I can still imagine it as a town roleIn post 1891, Alisae wrote:Full Commuter sounds amazing for scum!Lexi thoalbeit one which doesn't mesh well with others.
This is where I breadcrumbed my intended N1 protection--I went out of my way to avoid leaving any hints after that which could've been misconstrued as defending anyone else because at this point I was set in my mind to protect Ank.In post 2013, mastina wrote:
For what it's worth, while I am a certifiable moron, you'd have to be a whole level of stupid far more than I could ever muster in even my derpiest of moments to Vig Ank N1. That's never the right power role to use on her N1.In post 2009, Alisae wrote:im sorry i was laughing and enjoying myself and you weren't
it was a bad joke
What town roles would I be referring to if not my own?In post 2637, mastina wrote:Lady Lambdadelta
^Honestly my main suspicion on LLD is the Commuter claim in that it is a role that Pine would want more than Jingle would, it is a role which feels like there's better players for Jingle to give it to,and it is a role that feels like it'd mesh poorly with other town roles in the setup.These are all very solid reasons for LLD's claim to be suspect. But I can also see the other side; I can understand why LLD's Commuter role could be something Jingle would give her. I understand that Commuter IS a role Jingle could use,in spite of it probably meshing poorly with other town roles in the setup; I actually can see the logic and reasoning behind Jingle giving it to her even if I think there's better choices.
I literally never refer to generic unspecified town roles unless I am myself one.- mastina
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In fact I am pretty sure I can go one step further and just copy paste the role PM and that by Jingle's rules I won't be modkilled for it, so here you go:In post 3312, mastina wrote:
Actually I just realized the mod has incredibly lax rules on quoting. You know what that means?In post 3287, mastina wrote:
Yeah if you think that's not a real 'crumb you don't know fucking shit.In post 3273, Firebringer wrote:
You do this everytime you fake claim. Ive seen it a dozen times. You rewrite history of your posts to pertend you crumbed shit. Stop lying.In post 3271, mastina wrote:You know what IS the right power to use on Ank N1?A protective, because she will ALWAYS die N1.
I PMd the mod about my role, twice, talking about it. Once was telling Jingle "You know I'll never get a successful protection off, right?"
The other was exactly that: telling him, "You know what IS the right role to use on Ank N1?" more or less.
Then there was also submitting the night action where I said that Pine was probably killing someone he thought was a mason, but fuckit, that I was protecting Ank because I wouldn't be able to predict who he'd kill when mason-hunting but COULD predict who would be a probable nightkill.
There is no other player in the game who I would've protected N1.
Least of all given she was my second strongest townread D1.
I can fucking prove it.
Jingle sent me my role PM at about 11:30 am on Saturday. I'm a Bodyguard Loyal Retainer. Each night, I may target a player. Any attempts to kill that player will fail. If I successfully prevent a kill this way, I will die instead.
At 2 PM, I said "You know that bodyguard is a role which I'll never successfully use, right?"
Jingle's response to this:
At about 2:10 pm.
On Wednesday, at 7:15 pm, I told Jingle in a PM:
Quoting this post,
Guess what IS the right power role to use on her N1?
(I love breadcrumbs.)
Then on Friday at 11:22 pm I submitted to Jingle,
Bodyguard: Ankamius
Pine's probably shooting at someone he thinks is a mason but fuckit.
This should be legal by Jingle's rules to quote.
So yes I can fucking prove I am a fucking bodyguard who bodyguarded Ank.
Hello, mastina! I'm Jingle and I'm here to welcome you to Alisae's Revenge! You're a Bodyguard Loyal Retainer to the rightful Lord of the Land, Alisae. Unfortunately, the wicked tree that controls the Dark Forest has been acting up, causing insurrections left and right. Alisae has called an end to this nonsense, and is preparing to ride forth. Some of my messages have been compromised, however, and a few among you were recruited by the terrible monster to put an end to our quest before it even begins!
We must purge our party of those who have no loyalty, or we shall surely fail.
Abilities:
(Bodyguard) Each night, you may target a player. Any attempts to kill that player will fail. If you successfully prevent a kill this way, you will die instead.
The town win condition is: You win when all of Pine's minions have been killed.
The game thread is here:
This is not PROVABLY quoting privileged information, so it should be legal for me to do.
That was Saturday September 7th.
I submitted my bodyguard on Friday September 13th.
My message to Jingle where I mentioned my breadcrumb was Wednesday September 11th.- mastina
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mastina SheFalse Prophet
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Hey, when the mod leaves legal loopholes...damn right I will exploit them.In post 3383, Gamma Emerald wrote:Aren't role PMs supposed to be insanely customized or some shit? Mastina quoting hers is extremely ehhhhhhh
As long as I don't eat a modkill or ban, anything's fair game--and by the looseness of Jingle's rule, nothing I did was modkillable because I didn't break any rule. I pushed the rule to the furthest it could be without being broken, but there's no provable quote of privileged information.
When people call me a fucking liar.
When I am not fucking lying.
Damn fucking straight.
I will prove that I'm not fucking lying.- mastina
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mastina SheFalse Prophet
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Exercise.In post 3409, Alisae wrote:You literally could have asked Jingle for a fakeclaim of that natur-
Find a single fucking scumgame.
So much as ONE.
Where I fucking fakeclaim.
I've been scum, like, 120 times?
Find one.
I'll let you in on a secret.
In all of those scumgames.
I can't say "it's never happened", because it has.
Once.
Let's see if you can find it.
Because I don't fucking fakeclaim as scum.
Sure, yeah, I will lie and mislead as town. I'll troll as town. I'll tell obvious falsehoods as town. And as scum, I am capable of faking that process, of exaggerating the truth, of making it seem like I'm something I'm not--but push come to shove when I actually claim my real role. As scum I don't fucking lie and as town it's not nearly as common as people fucking think.
Because the truth is the greatest weapon you have at your disposal, and if you weaponize the truth, you're more sincere. Staying true to your role PM makes you more genuine, and that genuineness garners townreads.
It's a fucking stupid idea to fakeclaim as scum because it's setting yourself to a narrative you know is a lie and when you know your narrative is bullshit it's hard to keep bullshitting to it.
This is my widely-known, widely-established, stance on roleclaiming which you have literally fucking hundreds of games to track down me saying this shit in. Like, I've said it in MD, I've said it in dozens of games as both town and scum albeit usually town because when I am making this rant it is usually because people aren't fucking believing my claim when I make it in spite of literally every reason to be telling the truth.- mastina
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Wrong answer.In post 3449, jjh927 wrote:In A Story Revisited, jjh927 wrote:In post 241, jjh927 wrote:In post 92, mastina wrote:Find a single instance of me lying about my role as scum.In post 77, mastina wrote:BTW investigatives should stay off me; they'd be wasting their action.
I'm a D3 Innocent Child.
If you are wondering, no, not automatic; I have to manually trigger it.
That game I didn't lie. In fact, I distinctly recall rebuking you:
Subject: A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6
I claimed my real fucking role there. I was an N2 Vig; I SAID I was an N2 Vig. So I claimed my real fucking role there.mastina wrote:
While technically true, this is incredibly misleading.In post 236, Innocent Children wrote:She fakeclaimed D3 IC iirc? but was in actuality mafia vig, so I would definitely think it’s wise to take hers and probably most early claims with a grain of salt.
I fakeclaimed D3 innocent child...as a N2 Vigilante. (And once D3 rolled around, I realclaimed my role. So no. Didn't lie. Told the truth!)
Given my stance on Vigilantes.
That in of itself was not a lie.
It was misleading, sure.
But my stance on vigilantes is that when they successfully shoot, theyareconftown; they are proven to be town, and thus, proven innocent, just as if they were an innocent child. (Why this, in spite of my stance of roles != alignment? Because I am a member of the NRG and I am strongly in favor of the argument of vigs not being mafia-controlled. Nontown, sure. Even antitown, fine. But mafia vigs are a fuck no to me and are borderline bastard. They're not QUITE there, in that they're akin to a mafia Godfather; it is something TREMENDOUSLY powerful for the scum to have and NOT something I want in games out there willy-nilly.)
You can see my full realclaim the moment D3 unfolds, right here.Sure enough.Spoiler: The Posts in Question
Exactly as I roleclaimed.
N2 Vigilantewasmy real role, andI really didshoot Purcocet using it.
So like I said.
I don't lie about my role as scum.
BY NECESSITY, I will mislead; the reason I by necessity need to mislead as scum is because I love to do it as town. BY NECESSITY, I will exaggerate, I will play up things, I will make very careful usage of very specific wording. BY NECESSITY, I will try to imply something, when it is something else, but this is done purely to mimic my town meta, and I will always claim the actual real role later.
All fakeclaims have an end date.
All fakeclaims are made knowing a realclaim will need to be made later.
And when I reveal the real claim, the reason for the fakeclaim makes complete and total sense when you view it, because you go, "Oh, I understand why that was done" instantly just by knowing the real role.
You can think of it in this term.
Macho <-> Bulletproof as a switch to make, is in fact a lie.
I would tell it gladly and have done so, specifically because I knew that upon a realclaim, the reasons for me having done so would be abundantly clear. The kind of thing where I don't even need to explain it. I could end up a corpse, and that fact alone, just seeing my flip, would instantly explain my actions.
That's how "lies" of mine work. And that's why I say they're not actually lies. They are, technically speaking, not the truth. But they are a lack of truth, which when you see the truth, you understand why they were done and follow it as having been the optimal play.
Claiming D3 Innocent Child as a N2 vig was abrilliantplay move,regardlessof alignment and I'm actually sad I was scum that game because that move would have actually been better were I town. It wasn't really a lie, just me playing the closest I've ever played to my town meta in spite of how little I actually played the game. (Through little fault of my own, mind you.)
If the town hadn't kept quicklynching and I hadn't been so swamped with real life stuff at the time that game coulda been a contender for best scumgame I ever played, but since they did and I was busy I barely got to do anything. BUT I DIGRESS.
Point being.
I don't lie as scum; the closest I come to lying as scum is mimicking my town lies, and when I lie as town, I am most definitively not doing so just for the lulz; there is a clear, role-based reason for the lie and when you see the real role you can understand how it wasn't really much of a lie at all if it was in fact really something you could call a lie because my fondness for wordplay and precise usage of words leads me to carefully selecting words which IMPLY the meaning I want BUT ACTUALLY are me confessing to my real role.
There is precisely one game where I lied about my role as scum.
You didn't find it.- mastina
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mastina SheFalse Prophet
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I mean.In post 3518, Alisae wrote:mastina, am I allowed to leash you?
I put all my eggs into the basket of protecting Ank last night.
I really don't have any better ideas.- mastina
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If you think Ank EVER hides behind me.In post 3549, Titus wrote:My vote is bc I suspect Ank hid behind mastina based on her ISO.
You don't fucking know Ankamius's history with me at all.
That's not a hide she ever makes.
EVER.- mastina
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mastina SheFalse Prophet
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You know Pops.In post 3551, popsofctown wrote:
I missed this the first time.In post 3442, Alisae wrote:Pops why MariaR?
If you want more of my thought process, I had a list of about six perceivedly widely townread players. One thing that made MariaR different from any of the other five is that she was townreading chennisden. When thinking ahead to the D2 lynch, as a possible mislynch, chennisden seemed like a frontrunner for a -mis-lynch amongst players in the thread (xofelf and Ari have pretty good chances of being lynched but I'm confident in others to drink the right wine from the right glasses and lynch them only with accuracy. For obvious reasons I'm not confident in myself right about now). Chennisden is scummier than rand to me, still, it's not contradictory for me to be aware that I'm -probably- wrong about him, and in the case that he's town, he seemed like the most viable mislynch.
If you had said "I watched MariaR because I thought Pine believed she was a mason and that he'd try to kill a mason last night"...I'd have believed you because last night I thought Pine would PROBABLY be aiming at a mason last night (but since I didn't really know who the masons were decided on Ank).
This explanation?
This explanation is pretty damn bullshit.- mastina
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I have never.In post 3577, DrippingGoofball wrote:
It's the outrage - it rings fake.In post 3547, Titus wrote:What did mastina lie about?
Ever.
So much as once.
In any fucking game.
Faked rage.
You can argue the rage isn't alignment indicative; that much is accurate. I'll rage as scum even though townrage is far more common and the type of rage is usually different.
But the rage is always fucking real because no fucking shit?
I don't fucking lie, I don't fucking fake. I play with my heart on my sleeve; that's my niche. That's my shtick. It's what I do.- mastina
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mastina SheFalse Prophet
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(Speaking of: I'll be making an edited readslist when I'm caught up and Firebringer will be MUCH lower on it as a result because he fucking KNOWS I don't fucking fake this shit and yet him saying I did is a red fucking flag because no I fucking don't and he fucking KNOWS that no I fucking don't. Him pretending that I do is something he absolutely shouldn't be doing.)- mastina
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Like I said.In post 3586, GreyICE wrote:I can't shake the feeling that Pops watcher of Maria was designed to catch town power roles more than it was to catch scum.
If pops was using the watcher to try and protect a mason, I'd have believed his logic. For obvious reasons I shouldn't really speculate on who the masons are, but I believe it's safe to say that, at least PLAUSIBLY, that Pine could at least believe MariaR is a mason.
His actual stated logic is absolute bullshit tho.- mastina
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Really like this post btw and it increases my already large townread on Chickadee.In post 3600, Chickadee wrote:
Mine looks like Mastina's copied role pm. Does yours not?In post 3383, Gamma Emerald wrote:Aren't role PMs supposed to be insanely customized or some shit? Mastina quoting hers is extremely ehhhhhhh
Again....does your role pm NOT follow the standard script?In post 3417, Gamma Emerald wrote:Okay I guess the "personalized role PM" thing never happened
I checked Ank's flip and the role wasn't woven in the flavor in any way
But there's the fact that Mastina had that available to just change to a bodyguard role PM so I'm not convinced by usage of the role PM to prove anything
My biggest thought is that DGB has a small, opportunistic ISO.
VOTE: DrippingGoofball
Technically speaking: I did land a shot; I correctly called that Ank would die.In post 3624, popsofctown wrote:I'm hesitant to lynch a bodyguard, but admittedly it'd take a long time for her to land her shot in a large.
Which is why I called fucking bullshit because when a bodyguard correctly calls that someone will die, they should die in place of that person. I was ready to go to the dead thread fully content at having saved Ank for one more day.- mastina
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He is a strong townread for what it's worth.In post 3631, popsofctown wrote:I think I'm never voting GreyICE this game.- mastina
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VOTE: Aristophanes.
I said it yesterday will say it again today.
I was only going to vote one of Ari, Krazy, or jjh today.
And Aristophanes has earned it.- mastina
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Pretty much, yes.In post 3671, GreyICE wrote:In post 3662, Aristophanes wrote:Ank crumbed Xof pretty obviously imo. Also I'm at daystart so if this has been said in the last 20 pages or if the subject has moved on then I apologize.
The hider obviously hid behind Xof.In post 3666, Aristophanes wrote:Ohay a mastina wagon! I'm down, but I'd like more info
Who knows what killed them? I'm down for a mastina wagon!
...
COULD YOU BE SLIGHTLY MORE OBVIOUS ABOUT BEING SCUM
Vote: Aristophanes
NO- mastina
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No, I'd have killed Ank. (Which is why she was my protection.)In post 3702, Titus wrote:I think mastina would make that kill too.
Nacho's not been playing recently as far as I know--whereas Ank has been. Ank is more in touch with the meta. Ank is writing (or maybe has written, haven't checked MD yet but she let me know about it) a guide which is basically "how to play town and not be shit at it". Nacho isn't. Nacho would be a kill based on the reputation of what he used to be, not the reputation of what he is RIGHT NOW. And I've learned not to kill people off of the reputation of what they used to be (e.g. not to kill DGB), and to instead kill off of the reputation of what they are right now in the current site meta.
Players who used to be good CAN still be good when returning--can. But just as often, they go from being awesome to really just being...kinda...mediocre.
Also, as a slot: UT the original holder of the slot wasn't a likely mason pick for Ali. Whereas Ankamius was, quite plausibly, a mason pick. Which meant that if Pine were going to shoot for a mason, Ank was the more likely target between the two.- mastina
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Nacho was obviously a fear-kill, and to be fair, it's my fault for not remembering that Pine is one of the few people who WILL make fear kills. Fear kills being kills based off of past reputation regardless of current competency (e.g. "We need to kill DGB because DGB is a legendary goddess of townplay" when DGB's not as good as she used to be--similar logic applies to Titus who was singlehandedly the reason why I protected Ank instead of the Skygazer slot because while people working off of Titus's reputation would say it was a trade-up, in my opinion it was a trade DOWN and it was for damn good reason that I changed my plans from protecting Skygazer to protecting Ank once Titus came in).In post 3706, the worst wrote:anyone who says they wouldn't make that kill is a liar. the second I saw the replacement announcement I figured I was still destined to miss out on playing with Nacho. Back to buissness work.
There's plenty of players who would be smart enough to NOT make fear kills, so no. Anyone saying they wouldn't kill Nacho isn't lying. Anyone who makes fear kills saying they wouldn't kill Nacho? Yeah THEY are lying. But not every scum does make fear-kills.- mastina
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The bulletproof vig with a hood with pine was painfully obviously a fucking joke.In post 3715, chennisden wrote:
bp vig bodyguard with a hood with pine, sureIn post 3266, mastina wrote:
Fuck this game. I am a bodyguard. I bodyguarded Ankamius last night.In post 3254, the worst wrote:super rushed ISO check I think she crumbed Mastina
There was a kernel of truth in that post--I expected Pine to have probably figured out that I was a protective, possibly even specifically a bodyguard because I was quite clearly, self-evidently, not playing with longevity in mind. The entirety of my play was heavily showing my hand that it was in my gameplan to die quickly. I knew I wasn't going to be living long if I did my job and my play reflected it heavily. So if Pine had an idea I wasn't planning on living long and if Pine had an idea I was a protective (and the focus on having townreads kinda gave that away), I expected him to figure out that I am a bodyguard.
So when I said I expected Pine to have figured out the bg, I meant it, but that was literally the only thing true in that post.- mastina
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The only name in there I wouldn't vote is Chickadee.
Try again.- mastina
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mastina SheFalse Prophet
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Have you actually read my iso.In post 3798, popsofctown wrote:Mastina hasn't really impressed me yet this game.
There's a few notable posts which nobody who comments on me remembers.
Nobody townreading me, nobody scumreading me, nobody nullreading me, has commented on anything I've done. And what I've done has not been jackshit. What I've done hasn't been nothing. I've done shit. Yet nobody with any sort of commentary on me, has commented on what I've done.- mastina
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mastina SheFalse Prophet
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Expecting it isn't the greatest idea, sure.In post 3807, Krazy wrote:I feel like expecting her to be "impressive" in a way that's comprehensible isn't a great idea.
But when it happens it shouldn't be ignored and I've pulled my fucking weight.- mastina
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Have I mentioned that the worst is a scumread.In post 3827, the worst wrote:i feel null about all of these people. any suggestions on who i should feel more strongly about? i'll start with them.
mariar
firebringer
mastina
chennisden
popsofctown
Krazy
PenguinPower
Pink Ball
also have outdated townread on chickadee in particular which i'll be reevaluating- mastina
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mastina SheFalse Prophet
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And that's why you're scum.In post 3857, the worst wrote:i have no feelings about mastina at all.- mastina
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I could probably catch up right now but by the time I finished I'd probably be late for work, so:
Skygazer/Titus
Dannflor
GreyIce
Katsuki
Chickadee
Formerfish
Pink Ball
MariaR
Gamma Emerald
Iconeum
Menalque
PenguinPower
chennisden
DrippingGoofBall
Firebringer
xofelf
popsofctown
the worst
jjh
Krazy
Aristophanes
This is about where I'm at right now.
Need to explain the positions of Chickadee, Formerfish, Gamma Emerald, Menalque, DGB (she might be too high), more on Firebringer, xofelf, more on pops, and if I've the time to spare, more on my stronger scumreads.
But for now...like I said. I'm going to be late for work unless I leave like...five minutes ago.- mastina
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To quote the PM I sent to Jingle:
Knowing my luck I'll be protecting scum now but Ali didn't give me a target in spite of asking to leash me so this is Alisae's fault for forgetting to follow through after I actually said I had no better ideas.
Protect: GreyICE.
Now watch it be Katsuki nightkilled. Or a mason. Or...like, literally anyone other than GreyICE.
Soyeah. I protected GreyICE last night, lacking any better ideas.
VOTE: Aristophanes - mastina
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