Micro 891 - Death List (Game Over)

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Undo

This will return me to the micro queue. Then I can join Baezu's game.

[popsofctown]

VOTE: SKIP

[popsofctown]

Nymph, are you an alt? Your join date is July 30. I'd agree this game is stacked, but I'm surprised you'd know of this.


@Hectic: The idea behind the cryptography rule is that, like, if there's only one math PHD in the game, and you know this, you've basically created a neighborhood. Breadcrumbs at a quality where anyone can follow them don't have this problem.


[quote="Nymph]13 feels LAMIST especially with the fake claim.[/quote]
Hectic usually does super crazy wonky stuff, but it usually has a LAMISS flavor instead of a LAMIST flavor. But my sample size is small.

[popsofctown]

Nymph, are you an alt? Your join date is July 30. I'd agree this game is stacked, but I'm surprised you'd know of this.


@Hectic: The idea behind the cryptography rule is that, like, if there's only one math PHD in the game, and you know this, you've basically created a neighborhood. Breadcrumbs at a quality where anyone can follow them don't have this problem.

13 feels LAMIST especially with the fake claim.

Hectic usually does super crazy wonky stuff, but it usually has a LAMISS flavor instead of a LAMIST flavor. But my sample size is small.

[popsofctown]

Hectics = 999^999^999
Dunnstral = 1231997
MariaR - 27
Elements - 12
Dongempire - 9
popsofctown - 6
Azuresky - 4
Nymph - 3
Locke113 - 1

It's possible to lynch anyone here with some combination of commands.
The same goes for D2, regardless of whether we have 7 or 8 people. And it gets even easier beyond that.
I'm currently struggling to understand what use the mafia has with their one shuffle.

Pretty sure I'm unlynchable today, if I understand the rules correctly.

I think the mafia get to shuffle repeatedly if they choose the same method over and over. It says "only one method", not only one shuffle. So they have an imperfectly aimed NK. If you manage to position the list so that both mafia players would be at the top of the list with "no action" and "reuse the action that got locked in night 1", you force mafia to NK themselves.

[popsofctown]

Really sorry everyone, but I'm in far too many games right now, so I'm gonna have to sub out of this one. I have thoroughly enjoyed my time with everyone here, and it was great bantering with the likes of emps and Sushi Martyr.

But the pressure from rolling Rolecop was just far too stressful for me to handle, so I'd like apologise to my scum partner,

teacher

, and to the mafiascum community as a whole for my disgraceful act here.

Don't scumread my replacement for this please.

@mod:

Requesting replacement.

[popsofctown]

Fantastic news everyone: I'm going to claim town. Thought about survivor or lyncher, but I think it'd be hard to justify those, so town it is for now.

The reread that was promised will be delivered tomorrow. For now, I have some enquiries to make to some of the lovely innocent members of this fine upstanding town.

[popsofctown]

I did not go into this game expecting to sort Hectic by page 2, for sure

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My read on you right now is that you are Elizabeth

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Hey

Hey

Why do you think Nymph asked me for examples of Hectic:s behavior, Azure Sky?

[popsofctown]

So they wanted to be entertained?

I think they certainly will without viewing the backlog, then. I don't expect Hectic to behave himself

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Half

[popsofctown]

Oh lol, I am self voting. I assumed half would put 5 at the top.


GiF, I've playtested your setup and I've decided it's too hard.

Ugh, that Nymph kid? They've got to go. The best way to do that is to Layer into Pair
VOTE: Layer
Should be pretty obvious if you ask me.

Why "kid"? I get the feeling it's an experienced alt. And no, I'm not hinting I know the main, I figure that sort of thing out.

[popsofctown]

I moved my vote to half because I decided I didn't want to vote with them anymore after rereading the thread, there's a hint. But I feel confident I'll be able to read the slot as the game goes on due to posting style.


@Azuresky: I think knowing the experience level of a player can help you read them, it can let you know which tells are more strongly or more weakly applicable. For instance, I think "survivor" tells have the most consistency when applied to an experience player, because some players don't internalize during their first few games that it's easy to die and win the game as town (I used to be a master at it) so they will give off survivor tells as town, especially as PR.

[popsofctown]

I doubt I "see what you're talking" about MariaR, I'm pretty sure I'm a piano that is tuned quite differently from you most of the time. I would say what pings me is post 33 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11274380 being easily replaceable with no post at all.

[popsofctown]

I see your point. Hectic was kind of put up a topic at the top of the queue, in a way.

Asking for details instead of opinions seems like they're up to a scheme, and I'm afraid of schemes.

VOTE: Layer

[popsofctown]

Asking for details instead of opinions seems like they're up to a scheme, and I'm afraid of schemes.

Can you explain this?

Just a quote could be used to push him, or not push him. Asking me for a quote and opinion, like "is the nonsense readable, or do you just read the other stuff" gives you tougher options, you either have to fight my opinion, or drop the topic. The latter helps you read me better; I'm going to townread players that seem interested in reading me.

[popsofctown]

Azuresky us humans will have to band together to survive MariaR's death game

Can you post examples for me?

@Nymph
This would be what I was referring to.

I've never been asked for something like this before, actually, I'm not positive how I should be taking it. Only ever been asked for entire game links.

Nah I dont need elements to play my game, but I admit Im not really sure what I should be doing right now for my vote at the moment.

Call it scummy, but I think Imma try to be more passive and laid-back this game. I usually get too aggressive for this site so Im going to wait and see, associate with people, and then vote.

Being passive/aggressive is NAI.

I think being in the minority group when most of the players are one or the other is slightly AI. But I wouldn't actually dedicate very much attention to that.

[popsofctown]

Can you post examples for me?

@Nymph
This would be what I was referring to.

I've never been asked for something like this before, actually, I'm not positive how I should be taking it. Only ever been asked for entire game links.

Wait really? I find questions like that to be NAI. I've seen questions about getting links to past games be very common.

Just go onto show me it was a precursor to solving after all.

Pops, quick question:

What alignment do you like more, scum or town?

My heart is pure, so I greatly prefer to hone in upon the lurking villains.

I get very stressed out as scum and find it really hard. It amazes me how many people prefer it.

[popsofctown]

Pops is probably town, but I do have a tiny tiny tiny reason to believe she is scum, but I do not feel like outing my reason as it is reaching (and somewhat a gut feeling) and I tr pops enough for now to ignore it.

I can't think of a protown reason not to out it.

If you feel that the reason is invalid at its core, there are six townies that can show you so in a collaborative process.
If it's truly valid at its deepest core then scum!pops would possibly NK you n1 or n2 as one of the players with a reservation against you she could never address, or maybe I guess she leaves you alive until LyLo where there is only 1 other townie to figure out whether your idea is dumb or smart and talk it out with you. But like, I don't see how it helps you to hide it.

That said, if it concerns some of my ongoing games that you have read, it is undeed the unfortunate case that you're required to use it to inform your read but not explain it to other people, according to site rules. Expressing a desire that you hope one of those games finish during this one would be o.k.

[popsofctown]

so youre not buying in to wifom?

I can see hectic doing it, never played with dunn, have you? Think dunn would wifom?

I think dunn might have actually put his birthday Or maybe the year he graduated. It's a date in the lifetime of people reading the thread though. Around the time I got my first bike. I don't know what implications that has in terms of wifom

I misunderstood and thought I was only allowed to pick a number between 1 and 9. I picked 6 because it is a perfect number in mathematics. The next one after that is 28, bigger than 9.

[popsofctown]

This may be out of order because I'm bad at multiquote.

The first 3 pages are rolepaying and setup spec, damn.
I guess it befalls me to restart the rvs so we can actually get started.
VOTE: Guyinfreezer because i sure as hell wouldnt mind a more straightforward lynching system.

This seems like red PM behavior. You're not participating in RVS even though you claim you want it to happen for an ostensible protown reason.

Then your joke vote doesn't even match your policy, like.. you start this post encouraging everyone to ignore setup spec and progress to dayplay, then skip some dayplay to make a comment about how the setup mechanics impact the game. The dissonance makes me think you're thinking "town!dongempire would be frustrated by setup spec so I will state that he is" and then your actions are demonstrating "scum!dongempire doesn't mind the setup spec and it's a great opportunity for memes".

Azuresky, is there a shuffle option that lets me vote here?

so youre not buying in to wifom?

I can see hectic doing it, never played with dunn, have you? Think dunn would wifom?

I will not comment about having played with other players or not. I feel like scum!Dunn would be a bit more careful but I can see him submitting his number like that as scum. Hence, the tiny town read.

I don't think I'm more likely to be lynched than other people because I picked a high number

Or maybe the year he graduated.

That would be pretty impressive

VOTE: Reverse

Reverse -> Half -> Skip seems like a good idea to me

Hm. This was on my clipboard and I drafted a post that responded to this, but I lost the post to a login timeout when I went afk, and now I can't remember what I posted about this.
The takeaway would be, I must have not had a strong, memorable stance, proposing a sequence of three shuffles is odd to me but I can't decide which kind of odd.

I'd rather not have my main outed.

VOTE: Layer

I'll entertain this. I feel like MariaR has some weird interaction with Hectic.

@MariaR: What do you think about Hectic?

I see your point. Hectic was kind of put up a topic at the top of the queue, in a way.

Asking for details instead of opinions seems like they're up to a scheme, and I'm afraid of schemes.

VOTE: Layer

Locke hasn't posted yet
why vote him?

We're in a low information phase of the game and I'm interested in using my vote to get information about others, and reveal information about myself.
I sheeped MariaR to indicate I have better vibes from her than from Nymph.

Asking for details instead of opinions seems like they're up to a scheme, and I'm afraid of schemes.

Can you explain this?

Just a quote could be used to push him, or not push him. Asking me for a quote and opinion, like "is the nonsense readable, or do you just read the other stuff" gives you tougher options, you either have to fight my opinion, or drop the topic. The latter helps you read me better; I'm going to townread players that seem interested in reading me.

I'd rather not have my main outed.

VOTE: Layer

I'll entertain this. I feel like MariaR has some weird interaction with Hectic.

@MariaR: What do you think about Hectic?

I see your point. Hectic was kind of put up a topic at the top of the queue, in a way.

Asking for details instead of opinions seems like they're up to a scheme, and I'm afraid of schemes.

VOTE: Layer

wait
you talking about Maria here?

will catchup later btw

I was talking to MariaR, about Nymph.
Also, why do people drop the 'R' off "MariaR"? The R is the best part. I say it out loud in my head every time I read it. "Muuuhreeeuuuuhhhaaaawwwwwrrrr". I'm pretty sure the R doesn't stand for anything. It's capitalized to emphasize that when you say her name, you should strongly be overcome by a desire to roar by the end of the word, because she's so alpha.

Pops is probably town, but I do have a tiny tiny tiny reason to believe she is scum, but I do not feel like outing my reason as it is reaching (and somewhat a gut feeling) and I tr pops enough for now to ignore it.

I can't think of a protown reason not to out it.

If you feel that the reason is invalid at its core, there are six townies that can show you so in a collaborative process.
If it's truly valid at its deepest core then scum!pops would possibly NK you n1 or n2 as one of the players with a reservation against you she could never address, or maybe I guess she leaves you alive until LyLo where there is only 1 other townie to figure out whether your idea is dumb or smart and talk it out with you. But like, I don't see how it helps you to hide it.

Just like I gave a slight townread to Maria for #11, I kinda could see your #6 coming from a scum perspective since you arent too much of a fan of playing it.

Its reaching and an RVS read, but its there. I think your play otherwise suggests that you are town imo.

I can follow that. I'm actually pretty excited about this game and rather disinterested in Baezu's setups, I just have a really soft spot for paradox humor.
I townread you for being willing to articulate a point that goes against your overall conclusion on a slot, empirically I think that's way more town than scum. I've had other reasons to townread you as well. MariaR, are you on this boat yet?

Now that we know how to lynch anyone here, can we please start playing this normally instead of sprinkling crumbs like a pigeon and setup speccing?

Should I townread this? I feel like I should but my gut says no.

I mean, thats why Im not voting just yet, because theres alot to go with involving shuffles.

Re: my previous comment: read his motivations, not how he wants you to perceive his motivations. I haven't been thrilled.

I'm curious what bearing the fact that the lobby is stacked has to do with the point you're making. Also how stacked is this lobby exactly?

Sometimes I have

feelings

about people playing under secret alts and then making meta comments, and saying the lobby is stacked is a meta comment. Sometimes, it varies, I'm not positive on my opinion sometimes. But right now I'll be nice and answer this on behalf of Nymph and consequently make their main harder to PoE (as far as the information component, analysis is up to Nymph of course.)
Elements is newish but really good for his experience level
MariaR has been around the block and is really good
I'm above average
Dunnstral has played plenty and vigged scum n1 in a large recently
Hectic has certainly played a lot of mafia and presumably he's probably good
I think I saw Azuresky /in the newbie queue as new a couple months ago
I don't know you or whether you're part of Nymph's tally.
Is that everyone?
Oh dongempire is at least an SE
Nymph is probably an alt of someone experienced especially since they act like they're in the ennui phase of a mafia career.

So Zetta slow

What does this mean?

I doubt I "see what you're talking" about MariaR, I'm pretty sure I'm a piano that is tuned quite differently from you most of the time. I would say what pings me is post 33 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11274380 being easily replaceable with no post at all.

You do realise there are post tags right? Like you've been on this site much longer than myself so I don't want to be rude, just it seems weird to post the whole url rather than use the post tags

Ah, but you see, being on the site too long is exactly the problem, back in 2008 post tags were never used, I think they maybe were not even an available feature. They certainly were not embedded into the quote function. Much of the time period where they became available and more prevalent overlaps with my hiatus.
I have not figured out how to generate a post tag in a short number of clicks and keystrokes, I usually have to quote the post and delete everything except the embedded post tag which is tedious.

Because I found it weird that you would pivot and not mention anything about Hectic's weird posts.

Why would I respond to nonsense? Seems kinda useless and just clogs of the thread. So, if the interaction is so strange to you what kinda impression does it give you? 'Strange' can mean many things. Why don't you clear that up.

How dare you? Hectic is a treasure, I've only had Hectic for about five minutes tops, but if anything happened to him, I would kill everyone in this room and then myself.

This made me laugh at the screen and I have to comment on this rarity. I've heard the joke format before, but Hectic as the beloved child strikes me particularly funny given everything about him.

I don't understand a strong townread on Hectic this early. But it's little unclear from your posting in what proportions you're townreading him and enjoying his playstyle? Is he townlock to you? If so I guess I have to change my Hectic read immediately: you must be the Elizabeth .

[popsofctown]

I'm going to sheep this because I think this is good.

HALF->REVERSE->SKIP

VOTE: HALF

That is the first time someone has expressed a desire to sheep my read, then immediately voted me
Thank you GiF for bringing us this magical setup.

Since we don't know what the mafia might do at night and any of our reads might be wrong, I think it's going to be best to pick transformations one by one. It is not possible for the mafia to go in 5 player LyLo and become impossible for us to lynch one of them even if we have both of them identified.
Using the votecount to show where you are is always a good idea, though.
I'm going to VOTE: Pair, which is a Dunnstral vote; I think that's the most likely of the 4 lynchable players to flip scum. They're all pretty close, except for the one whose role PM I can view.

But I think it's important to keep sorting all 9 slots.
Not excited by dongempire's reaction right away on that topic.

@Elements: Why are you saying "I think we should do at least one rearranging of the list"? I noticed "Skip" is the only option we can do that reduces scum's agency, actually, whereas every other option gives them the choice of selecting "Undo", "Undo" is identical to not submitting anything if we skip. Why are you drawing the opposite conclusions from me about the mechanics here?

[popsofctown]

I'm an SE player who is 0 for 1 reading you correctly, so I feel a little bit guilty about it, yeah.

I can't wagon you in a literal sense, you're literally unlynchable today.
I don't think I'm usually a very wagony sort of player, though.

[popsofctown]

I can't wagon you in a literal sense, you're literally unlynchable today.

There's no list transformation that immediately kills Dongempire

[popsofctown]

OH YOU CAN DO MORE THAN 1 SHUFFLE PER DAY

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Half

[popsofctown]

OH YOU CAN DO MORE THAN 1 SHUFFLE PER DAY

do you understand now?

not yet, please repeat it in axolotl

[popsofctown]

Should probably get 5 votes agree on all 3 shuffles before executing any of them to minmax this the best.

Straight skip is strictly better than something like Pair, Undo, Skip, because scum then get to choose between doing Undo and locking in undo for the rest of the game, or doing pair and locking in pair for the rest of the game, for the same effect, where with straight skip the scum must choose Pair.
I think we would possibly not even find out which one they did, that could make ending on an undo bad in general?

[popsofctown]

Spoiler: post

sorry everyone
will get to this game tomorrow
will solve it for you because you're probably struggling
but maybe will give you some time first to let you have some fun

i see that attempt to buddy me Locke
and consider it done
you're locktown
anyone counterclaiming Elizabeth?

I day-rolecopped Locke and got the result "Elizabeth", which means my initial read on you of being Elizabeth must be wrong (I didn't burn a shot confirming that hunch, I have to be careful as an X-shot). It's pretty clear now why Locke has you townlocked. I'll spoiler this, both to make dongempire happy, and to give us a better chance of someone showing up and scumclaiming by claiming Elizabeth.

[popsofctown]

I'm going to sheep this because I think this is good.

HALF->REVERSE->SKIP

VOTE: HALF

That is the first time someone has expressed a desire to sheep my read, then immediately voted me
Thank you GiF for bringing us this magical setup.

Since we don't know what the mafia might do at night and any of our reads might be wrong, I think it's going to be best to pick transformations one by one. It is not possible for the mafia to go in 5 player LyLo and become impossible for us to lynch one of them even if we have both of them identified.
Using the votecount to show where you are is always a good idea, though.
I'm going to VOTE: Pair, which is a Dunnstral vote; I think that's the most likely of the 4 lynchable players to flip scum. They're all pretty close, except for the one whose role PM I can view.

But I think it's important to keep sorting all 9 slots.
Not excited by dongempire's reaction right away on that topic.

@Elements: Why are you saying "I think we should do at least one rearranging of the list"? I noticed "Skip" is the only option we can do that reduces scum's agency, actually, whereas every other option gives them the choice of selecting "Undo", "Undo" is identical to not submitting anything if we skip. Why are you drawing the opposite conclusions from me about the mechanics here?

Fake read, and you conveniently didn't notice in my 3 posts that my action to reverse the list wouldn't hit elements, and would instead hit Locke if there were only 1 action per day. This is something that I would expect you to comment on if you were town, instead it seems you called me the scummiest person just because

I glanced at it in preview edit as I was posting the subsequent wallpost, since what transformation was being used wasn't specified I just assumed you'd answered honestly.
I care a lot more about other things in developing my reads.
If you think that miscounting the mechanic is scum indicative for me, why did you not come after me when I accidentally selfvoted on page two or so? Why'd you wait around?
I noticed in Crown on the Ground I have to vote you to get you out of your shell sometimes, so I wouldn't expect you to be so surprised by a Dunnstral vote in a lower information phase of the game.

[popsofctown]

I finished writing a c program that sims this game's mechanic.

I'm gonna keep guessing combinations of 3 things and see if I can figure out a combination mutations that lynches dongempire and makes azuresky bulletproof.

[popsofctown]

"Half, pair, layer" kills Dongempire and makes Azuresky unkillable as it produces "dong, Elements, MariaR, Dunnstral, Hectic, Locke, Nymph, Azuresky, pops"

Someone check if my program is working right.

[popsofctown]

Care to elaborate

In a manner that references people's alignments

Because I probably ought to really get back into that

[popsofctown]

I like "Skip" in that Nymph and Azuresky become unkillable and I think those slots are town, and the mafia lose the undo option. But I'm not really scumreading Hectic and I'm one of those players that is pickier than "nullread" for the day one lynch.

pedit: oooooh a new game now I gotta find a sequence that makes Elements unkillable too
I'm not actually townreading to where I care
but games

[popsofctown]

*townreading him

[popsofctown]

but games

"layer, pair, half" kills Dongempire, bulletproofs Azuresky, and doesn't make you bulletproof, but at least forces scum to lock in their night action without having the option of locking in undo if they want to kill you. That should be plenty good enough.

I think both BPs and killing Dongempire is impossible.

[popsofctown]

Ideally we should pick a player we want to lynch, then one other player we want the scum to have to NK. Then we pick a set of mutations that achieve that lynch and NK that player, unless we've pushed the scum into committing to their shuffle method. Which then gives us wifomable info that that second player was scum.


Elements you've been really underwhelming this game. You've usually accomplished more than this by now when you're scum. Azuresky has even nudged you. Why the naked Half votes? Why not more commentary on...everything? Two slots have lashed back at me so far, do you think I'm scum?

[popsofctown]

Like

There might be some Elements stuff on the first six pages

But what would really matter is that I don't remember any of it

Dunnstral doing, like, a more authentic version of what he did as scum last game is making me think he's not the scum here

[popsofctown]

Day 1 mislynch meta is my old meta and it's beautiful and freeing and you should embrace it.


But, no, seriously - playing to deliberately stick near null isn't good for your winrate, in my opinion (excepting some cases involving a PR, but even then I'm skeptical). You have a harder time sorting other players and players have a harder time sorting you. And mafia's a team game, X% of the time, a teammate who didn't try to play to null is getting mislynched in your place, and who's to say they're more valuable than you are?

If you came into this game planning to play this way I'm not sure I can sway you right away, but I encourage you to consider these things.

[popsofctown]

I'm still foggy on your reasoning for why at least one shuffle method should be used. A couple posts back you kind of hinted at it fostering discussion a la RVS votes, is that a rep or a misrep?

I think we're throwing 3-4 1-shot town bodyguard effects in the trash if we use the options one at a time instead of leashing, I'm not sure I can swallow that pill. UNVOTE: if I haven't yet, btw.

[popsofctown]

There will always be a lynch. Scum can kill by manipulating the list during the night.

You do know scum can only do this once right? I should make it clear for you humans just so you don’t get confused

They can pick one and do it again and again. Like being too dumb to learn different types of magic. It's never fun when a game's too easy

@Mod: The mafia can shuffle more than once per game if they reuse the same type of shuffle method, can they not? That's my reading of "method"

Locke113 or whatever his name is had a pretty bland catch up. I mean, the questions were weak along with a bit of filler. I wouldn’t mind if his name was at the very top of the list at the moment.

Yeah, he can burn. I'd rather punish a past playmate I know can play better like Elements, but I shouldn't spare Locke for making me smile over a joke. Only mercy if he makes me smile by starting good corpsefire.

HALF->REVERSE->SKIP

VOTE: HALF

Anyone who does this should say who they’re trying to lynch and let die. Because you do know whoever gets second of that list will die at the end of the night correct? How careless are you people?

I think it seems like Nymph doesn't think hard about how the magic works. But if they were scum I think they'd think harder. Scum have to think "who's the second person, are we friends?" I think Nymph doesn't have any friends. But that's why they can be my friend

what style?

I think I'm fine letting Pops/Nymph live to the next round so far. They seem useful in my cause.

I think we've become interested in pretty different games by now. In Role Call I threw many a tantrum for playing my games by my rules. That makes me worried what you really want is to beat me at hide and seek again

VOTE: Pair

This would leave Lock out right? Then reverse killing Lock/Azure. I think I'm fine with that right now

I've only had Azure for five minutes, but if anything happened to her I would set you on fire, then

Skip: Rope

in front of GuyInFreezer until everyone died.
You quote things from her I know you should think are "wrong but town" and I think you should be able to learn more. Can you even try to think like a human?

[popsofctown]

it's mentally exhausting


but somehow addicting

[popsofctown]

Spoiler: repeatedly requested Azuresky towncase

For The record, as long as Im alive, I will try to provide everyone with what the action will lead to help with scumhunting. If you want to know how to lynch someone, I will let you know:

For Now: 3 Shuffles Remaining

REVERSE - Hectic
HALF - Popsofctown
PAIR - MariaR
LAYER - Locke113
SKIP (ENDS THE DAY) - Hectic
UNDO (COSTS ONE SHUFFLE, DOES NOT END DAY) - Hectic

(Please let me know if there are any mistakes)

I guess I'm pretty dumb for not noticing the "3 shuffle remaining" in this post, but qualifying this post with "as long as I'm alive" seems town indicative. Scum are less likely to contemplate being dead, on average they live longer. And Azuresky is not even in the top 2 slots - for her to even contemplate dying as some kind of default possibility, her memory has to slip about whether this game has a factional NK that she expects to eat a lot of the time.

Pops, quick question:

What alignment do you like more, scum or town?

Asking this question with the trick she later shows she had in mind for it seems like such genuine scumhunting. Scumhunting that does not look like you have the answer you want in mind and are working backwards to get it is the most town-indicative kind. I may have said "scum", and her read would have inverted.

Nah I dont need elements to play my game, but I admit Im not really sure what I should be doing right now for my vote at the moment.

Call it scummy, but I think Imma try to be more passive and laid-back this game. I usually get too aggressive for this site so Im going to wait and see, associate with people, and then vote.

So, just found out I'm wrong and everyone else is right, and there's just one NK per game. Passive play would work ok in a nightful mountainous, but given additional knowledge that this is closer to nightless mountainous, passive play is really dangerous, that's not how you win nightless setups as scum. Damn if I haven't experienced that the hard way. Soft join date, but she might know this intuitively, and even if she doesn't a partner in the scum PT probably laid out a gameplan. (Hinges somewhat on daytalk but daytalk is pretty site meta now)

I believe Hectic is scum.

The notion for hectic is that theres a pretty good chance hectic believes there will be atleast one shuffle, which allows him to gambit with a huge number for townpoints because “town wouldnt do that,” hectics number ENSURES hes the top, which is why I find this a gambit for townpoints.

He wants to be the top of the list, then I say we grant him his wish.

I think Hectic picked a high number because he's Hectic, but Azuresky's beef with him seems borne of genuine paranoia.

And I'm shifting towards scum on the slot now, so she's definitely not getting any mislynch credloss until Hectic flips. I think he essentially decided to draft 99^99^99 when he /inned for the queue in all likelihood, so the 99999 itself isn't anything, but he seems more concerned with justifying himself than I'd expect with him, and the revelation that the crossword puzzle is a VT claim is especially concerning. It's like, a serious thing to do, not a meme. But if VT is somewhere in the crossword puzzle he should know it's antitown and could cause mafia to shoot elsewhere, it's not a well concealed claim like 'first letter of each word in a random post'. That makes me interpret it as LAMIST.

[popsofctown]

Hectic why are you hedging on Azure? How are you going to brag about how long you've been playing mafia and try to scare someone off your lynch by saying "tunneling is scum indicative"?

[popsofctown]

interesting that you're concerned about how much i'm justifying myself
am trying to get someone i townread to stop deathtunneling me
since she seems really confident on her read

You were asking me to elaborate on why she's town half a post ago; I'm skeptical about this progression where you immediately townread her for pushing you.

[popsofctown]

Yeah scum is the faction that lies. And I can tell the difference from when you're lying for memes and when you're lying to play in bad faith for strategic advantage.

VOTE: Skip

[popsofctown]

I think it seems like Nymph doesn't think hard about how the magic works. But if they were scum I think they'd think harder. Scum have to think "who's the second person, are we friends?" I think Nymph doesn't have any friends. But that's why they can be my friend

You could’ve just said you think Nypth is town because they wouldn’t be this stupid as scum and saved me the time to read ya know. You humans always gotta draw out your stuff.

Nympth is smart, not dumb. If I talked too fast it might sounds like teasing. I don't want to tease my friends.

I think we've become interested in pretty different games by now. In Role Call I threw many a tantrum for playing my games by my rules. That makes me worried what you really want is to beat me at hide and seek again

My old team made me play hide and seek. But the person who found me wasn’t who I suspected. Then ya know, got turned with some dark magic the whole nine yards. I think it’s my turn to be the seeker.

Are you seeking? Or pretending to look, so your best friend can win?
So far you want to hurt someone who seems obviously good to me. Obvious enough I expect you to figure it out. But it doesn't look like you are really playing. Instead of deciding whether her recent casts onto Hectic are in courage or fear, you teased her to brag about how easily you could lie to her? And complained about a joke she LABELLED A JOKE?
So what if I decide:
Maybe you have to be a pyromancer to understand certain things, and not everybody is a pyromancer. And I should look at whether you do the things you are good at.
How have you not posted a read on Dunnstral yet? You have bragged about how well you know him before. You quoted him twice, but your stance on him is unclear even though two players, count me as three, has a townread there.
You can call yourself a seeker when you're really looking.

You quote things from her I know you should think are "wrong but town" and I think you should be able to learn more. Can you even try to think like a human?

Ouch, my feelings. I don’t know if I’m feeling like calling them town. Maybe you could explain it to me huh? Help me think like a human a bit. (Never thought I’d say that)

You had no comment on the story I wrote for everyone. You are replying when you need to tease me for using too many words in a sentence about Nymph, and not replying to the posts that smoulder with meaning about where the werewolves are. You are trying to make me think you aren't a werewolf by pretending you are scared everyone is, but you're not telling me the stories about their howls, or listening when I say someone's clothes are too tight for fur.
I know some of this is your style. You know how to count without holding up your fingers for everyone to see. Yeah yeah. But when you're lightly pocketing me then doing so much wrong with silence as to why, I have to be scared of you. And decidedly disinterested in torching down whom you ask for.

[popsofctown]

I guess Dunn did do stuff. Oh. Still want some reads from him.

This is a lot of "stuff" for Dunnstral, both in volume and in character.

I still read Pops as an innocent soul. I dont like the buddying from her, but maybe cause Im not used to people townreading me this early.

Despite some unawareness and obliviousness to the setup that has been painfully highlighted to me, I've noticed since this game was in queue that "oh, literally everyone is a doctor, that's powerful".
So finding a townread is really relevant. I'd like to have more. Wouldn't take much more quantity of the same quality from Dunnstral for him to be an exciting slot for the unkillable positions too.
Buddying you in the sense that I want to push the ballot on something that puts you unkillable, yes, but I'm not asking you to votebloc or planning to sheep any of your reads I don't agree with.

UNVOTE: btw, the skip vote was a rude gesture for Hectic of course, but I want to pick a 3 transform sequence the way Dunnstral does.
Something that kills two among MariaR, Chemist, Hectic, and Elements, and I want to play some more day 1 mafia to figure out who of those I prefer the most (er and more importantly it will come down to what I can get consensus on).

[popsofctown]

Mountainous means all vanilla.
Chemist's activity may or may not stay low because he joins lots of games. Hectic's activity will be sporadic, because lots of games. Locke seems to actually be here moreso now.
Dunnstral is basically doing high activity for Dunnstral. IDK what is up with Nymph. Elements' activity is low because he's aligned with the mafia.

I hear some amount of echo about just doing something. Role Call was a game I played similar to this one recently that had a similar mechanic in terms of giving town multiple possible things they could vote on, and it created lots of deadlock and scum won landslide. So maybe pushing one slot at a time is a good idea. I'll shut up about my VT doctor fantasies.

Who are you scumreading the most, Azure? Is it still Hectic?

[popsofctown]

Half Pair Half lynches Elements with Hectic and Layer Pair Layer lynches MariaR with him.

Lynching this form of Dunnstral seems irresponsible.

VOTE: Half

[popsofctown]

I started to reread game and came across the crossword puzzle again

cutely it has "ofctown" in it

But more distressingly it has "doctor"
Which is a straightforward crumb and then overrides a convoluted VT crumb if he actually claims to be playing to a crumb
The LAMIST interpretation of the gambit just seems the most natural one, especially when he seemed distressed it endangered his neck instead of happy play was moving forward, the way he more or less seemed in crown when Correspondence shaded him

[popsofctown]

So my school wifi is being completely horrible

Be back in ~1 hour

If you ask everyone nicely and say please, they will get off the Wi-Fi for ten minutes.
If you set everyone on fire they will get off the Wi-Fi for the rest of their lives.
Teehee

[popsofctown]

I feel like there has been too much talk and not enough action at this point.

If you feel like playing the setup game and setting up shuffles to work in towns favor, go right on ahead and start voting. The people that want to do that need to start making ideas and plans to go through.

My vote still stands. Everyone should be able to look at reactions from me/hectic/elements/pops/locke. Theres stuff to work with in there. If the activity wasnt so low Id argue the hesitation on wagoning SKIP makes it town-oriented. I have no plans of messing with the list at this point.

———————

@mRaRrRiRaR: if youre scumreading half this list youre trying too hard.
@Pops: voting skip out of emotion looks bad.
@Nymph: wouldnt scum be more content to sit back than to actually play the game? Dong could have stayed in and twiddled his thumbs. Its a nulltell anyways since he was getting looked at for his hypocrisy.

Honestly, I'm kinda feeling this post

Are you going to do any of the stuff she calls for or are you dongempire 2.0? I'm looking through the thread and trying to figure out how much support half pair half or half layer half might have and I'm realizing I don't know what you want, but you've posted an awful lot of not giving any sign.

[popsofctown]

It looks like Nymph would be on board.

And elements would be onboard if it was switched to MariaR since elements is playing indistinguishably from the scum wincon and trying to lynch everyone but himself. That'd be the dirty way to get an extra vote.

Hectic-Locke would be good but I don't think it's mechanically possible actually

[popsofctown]

Hectic looks worse every reread.

[popsofctown]

I'm going to have to disentegrate you for the integrity of my azuresky townblock, but I see enough on that list for you to vote for half pair half, yeah? Come play with a frenemy. We'll never decide what game we want to play if we don't try some first.

[popsofctown]

Elements' activity is low because he's aligned with the mafia

Elements' activity is low because he's trying to change his game day 1 game style

Excellent scenario of what's going on right now thanks Elements

[popsofctown]

*summary

[popsofctown]

It was a slip
About my desire to have a real board gaming or dnd group

[popsofctown]

I think I ran that one yesterday and it was a no


I can let you know for sure when I'm at work again

[popsofctown]

Working it out by hand with BAC != 0 it also looks like a no

[popsofctown]

Does that mean you townread Elements and MariaR? Show me your soul Nymphistations

[popsofctown]

Is there any way to build a list where Hectic and Dong/Chemist are the first two?

Program says hard no

[popsofctown]

Dunnstral and Hectic are proddable

[popsofctown]

My program is fancier now I can do cute things

There are two ways to kill Elements and Chemist together, the kill immune players offered are either Dunnstral, Hectic, Nymph, Azure, or MariaR, Locke, Azure, Nymph.

[popsofctown]

and what if I don't

that's a serious question btw

My program is fancier now I can do cute things

There are two ways to kill Elements and Chemist together, the kill immune players offered are either Dunnstral, Hectic, Nymph, Azure, or MariaR, Locke, Azure, Nymph.

[popsofctown]

Chemist has not played this game any yet. Potentially never will?

[popsofctown]

I don't understand why you scum read me so much

Pops?

I expect to have to explain to Tibbers why he's a bear, but should I really explain to scum why they're scum?
You're totally focused on yourself.
You don't do anything but if nothing happens Hectic and Dunnstral are the ones that die. But you haven't even said you don't like them.
You have so few stances pretty much anyone can be your secret best friend.
You're not even at least pretend interested in the setup. Which looks bad to me when you're not the top two names.
Even right now you seem like you're trying to make me fail a spelling quiz so my answer isn't "good" enough to lynch you, rather than caring about whether I want to set you on fire because I'm a bad girl.
Maybe I'll use Tibbers, he doesn't know how to spell.
VOTE: Half

[popsofctown]

Half is at L-1.

My preferred lynch/night kill bait pool is {Chemist, Hectic, Elements}.

If any two out of those three are in the top 2, I'll agree to vote that way.

Half Pair Half lynches Elements with Hectic

and Layer Pair Layer lynches MariaR with him.
VOTE: Half

[popsofctown]

Also Annie is fucking garbage

[popsofctown]

You have poked Hectic, at the most.

Your silence on Dunnstral is the important clue.
You are bad and will burn a cone that hurts a possible friend just so you can escape danger faster.
Nymph is brave and will start 3 steps towards clear plan protecting their friends and hurting their enemies even before it is 100% clear we all agree, even though the wheel could stop on them or their partner.
That's because Nymph knows they can win even if they die if they get assists. You seem like you need to not die very much.
You seem like you made up a scumread and voted it because Dongempires who forget to do so move towards the top of the list. You do not seem like you are trying to find the bad guys.

[popsofctown]

ELEMENTS SMELLS LIKE BURNING

[popsofctown]

Interesting, what makes you feel these two are scum partners?

I think both of them are scum

HAMMER HALF AND VOTE SKIP THEN FRAIDY CAT

I KNOW YOU CAN'T BE TOWNREADING AZURESKY BECAUSE ALL YOUR READS ARE MAKE BELIEVE ANYWAY

[popsofctown]

[color=#FF00000]Wow[/color]

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Pair

[popsofctown]

I don't follow. Town!Elements who does nothing day 1 expects to get lynched again. Scum!Elements who does nothing day 1 expects to get lynched again. Both lose win%, neither should exist.

Better interpretation: town!Elements who does nothing day1 thinks he can get the style of "nothing" right this time. scum!Elements who does nothing day 1 thinks he can get the style of "nothing" right this time. The second one is more likely but if you see those two as really close you can nullread it and look at his other play, to the extent there is other play, but I'm really not fascinated by lazy interest in the easiest lynch and then flipping his scumread on me for logic I'd expect him to easily follow.

[popsofctown]

*flipping his townread on me

He townread me earlier this game
And decided to scumread me when I pointed out how scummy he is.

[popsofctown]

popsofctown
Azuresky
Nymph
Locke113
Hectic
Dunnstral
MariaR
Elements
Dongempire

[popsofctown]

If we went Layer->Skip I wouldn't cry about it.

[popsofctown]

If we went Layer->Skip I wouldn't cry about it.

Everything you’ve said recently is wrong or not good for town, I assure you.

Do you really like how easy its been recently to get people to side with you on Elements?

I'm more concerned about my TR disagreeing with me about it honestly

But it does bug me that Dong seems more disproportionately unpressured. Er, Chemist. He like slightly played mafia yesterday

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Mergesort

[popsofctown]

Azure is like actually trying to sort Hectic instead of stating a conclusion and writing a fanfic about it after
just like all game

how are there 3+ mafia in this game feigning an inability to get the free azure sky tr

[popsofctown]

If she was pocketing me she would have just supported the half-pair-half gameplan

[popsofctown]

I will fervently eradicate all pesticides from the immediate area.

[popsofctown]

I want to see the reaction test and what comes of it

[popsofctown]

Nymph is still pretty town

Double Locke's content in a quarter of the quote walls and reads keep seeming accurate/real

Wish they would join the triple paragraph hyperposting cult I'm in

but I keep getting roleblocked when I target them with my recruit

[popsofctown]

By my math you and Hectic can play guessing games around this time on Friday, and for 22 hours after.

And then however much of it you can do before this time Friday.

Friday "even sooner" for him if you're American, he is British.

[popsofctown]

If Hectic absolutely must die and Elements absolutely must be saved, I'd prefer Hectic/MariaR to Hectic/Dunnstral.

But I don't understand the high level of credence you're giving to a previous day 1 lurk.

[popsofctown]

post 293 is plenty enough to fall behind a slot that is trespassing out of his own scumrange

[popsofctown]

"his" refers to Dunn

[popsofctown]

No, I'm not telling you how to read Dunn.
I'm telling you my read on Dunn.
You didn't tell me your read on Dunn until now.
In Starry Night it was your favorite rhyme to tell it.
In Role Call you were eerily silent on it.
Secret secrets are no fun, secret secrets hurt someone.

[popsofctown]

If I see you being solvey I can townread you the old fashioned way MariaR. There's plenty of game left.

Could you tell me how I used meta and failed before? I truly don't remember.
Magical Girls?

[popsofctown]

I'm not doubling down.

The question wasn't rhetorical or a challenge.
I even used the word "truly" so that you wouldnt interpret it that way.

[popsofctown]

VOTE: layer

[popsofctown]

Hey pops, I don't think MariaR is scum or has a <rand chance of being scum as of now.

VOTE: Layer

Would like to vote pair after.

Why are you townreading me?
I've expressed interest in like 6 different lynches today
And mostly I want to lynch the nullscum lurkers which isn't exactly a beacon of innocence
I doubt it can be the same reason Azure has, want to hear it in your own words.

[popsofctown]

META

[popsofctown]

Those are pretty much my reads.

[popsofctown]

Elements and Chemist won't hammer themselves, so the only people who might hammer are Hectic and Locke.

It bothers me that I can't remember enough about Locke in all the walls to know whether to expect him to hammer this. I can't remember Locke doing anything this game besides sometimes showing up and going "but really though?" when I try to build a townbloc.

Whatever between Hectic or Locke wouldn't be bussing will probably hammer this I guess.

[popsofctown]

From what I’ve seen from scum!Elements he’s more than capable of clearing himself so scumreading him for not being obvious town is ???

Like pops you hosted UT semi-open

Yes, Elements has a 100% winrate as scum in games that I moderate.

The required winrate for "too scummy to be scum" to not be a logical fallacy is 101% winrate.

[popsofctown]

Those are literally the same thing.

I'm looking at his play and trying to interpret if he deeply cares about surviving. My best assessment is that he deeply cares about surviving, too deeply to be town. He's willing to omgus kill me for his own survival and I don't see a plausible reason for him to actually make a progression over to scumreading me. The stupid countdown thing painted him as a troll slot and interacted with no other slot.

You shouldn't interpret survivalistic behavior based on how effective it actually is, you should interpret based on how effective the player seems to believe it is. If a newbie claims Miller at L-3, you don't townlock the slot for doing something that almost guarantees its lynch, you scumlock the slot for behaving in a strange way that seems preoccupied with survival rather scumhunting.

Why do I even need to explain this?

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Layer

[popsofctown]

It's not permanent, there's one more rearrange left.

You could vote Layer and make a case for lynching me instead.

[popsofctown]

I'm already onwagon, my vote was a fakehammer. I actually just wanted to revote to say "bad Elements", but since you seemed to think that was a hammer I thought that was worth a shot.

Who do you scumread Chemist?
Nymph, Locke, and Dunn?

[popsofctown]

I thought it was

probably

sarcasm, but I still had to shoot for the moon there.

Why do you townread MariaR and Locke?

[popsofctown]

I'm not aware of that.


I would indeed appreciate the deadline being in each VC.

And a list of players who aren't voting.

[popsofctown]

It would have been faster to do it by hand but I used the program anyways.

Dong(Chemist)
E, what's E again, oh elements
MariaR
dUnnstral
Hectic
Locke
Nymph
Azuresky
popsofctown

[popsofctown]

Patience is a virtue. You know who said that? That's right: Me.

Right now, I can understand you may be impatient, and eager for me to return and hammer down my final verdict.

Only thing is, when you get to my level of skill in this field of work, it can take weeks, or even months to analyse and surmise my findings.

Due to the complexity of the game state, it will take a further ONE day until I return with my solve.

Great. That's sorted then. Now here's some content: Chemist is here. Pops is levitating. Azure is interesting. Maria is foreboding. Locke is pragmatic. Elements is bamboozled.

End of post.

You should answer Azuresky's special question.

[popsofctown]

Skip: Chemist lynched, Elements is the default nightkill, pops, MariaR, and Locke can be nightkilled.
Pair: Elements is lynched, Chemist is the default nightkill, pops, Dunnstral, and Nymph can be nightkilled.

I think I like pair better. Nymph, Dunnstral and I have kind of similar reads, so with pair mafia don't have as much choice in how to manipulate the gamestate.

Forcing the mafia to use their only NK is enough of a win that I don't think the actual order of the first two names matters as much as that.

VOTE: Pair

[popsofctown]

I'm going to have to disentegrate you for the integrity of my azuresky townblock, but I see enough on that list for you to vote for half pair half, yeah? Come play with a frenemy. We'll never decide what game we want to play if we don't try some first.

Actually I have some breaking developments in this game. I just caught it.

If Hectic is town, we are going to find out very very soon.

———————

Hectic, you get 1 post. No bullshit, no gimmicks, all seriousness.

If you are honestly town, then someone should be pinging your scumdar right now. Its not me. Look carefully at the last few pages, take a deep breath, and tell me who is mafia.

You shouldn't have to read posts after this one to answer her.

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Pair

[popsofctown]

Spoiler: I'm not voting these

Layer:
p
A
N
L
H
dU
M
E
D
Half:
L
N
A
p
D
E
M
dU
H

[popsofctown]

Why do you like pair, Nymph?

[popsofctown]

I'm not voting anything that puts one of my townreads in the top 2, so that means I'm only voting pair or skip.

I do think pair is a little better but I'm not sure it's a hill worth dying on.

[popsofctown]

Locke is fencesitty and gross on pretty much every slot, from what I remember. Even when he does make a read he doesn't really back it up or try to persuade anyone. I don't get what's special about his interactions with Hectic. He's probably the worst slot among those actively playing the game, depending on how I make up my mind about MariaR.

Nymph is totally off the table right now, though.

[popsofctown]

Azuresky, I love how you took my point about the importance of the "R" in MariaR's name to the extreme levels it deserves.

Why can't we be friends?

[popsofctown]

The main difference is who is susceptible to an NK when the mafia are forced to do something.

Pair protects you and I think you might solve slots other people couldn't solve.

[popsofctown]

I'm leaving it on SKIP until something better comes up.

This is my favorite post in this thread.

And I'm not sure why.

I just wanted everyone to know that.

[popsofctown]

Alright, MariaR, I'll trust your assessment on that. BP the towniest townreads is pretty standard logic and maybe more reliable logic.

Skip keeps Nymph safe, Pair endangers them. I'm in danger either way.

VOTE: Skip

[popsofctown]

I think that was hammer

[popsofctown]

It's actually surprisingly difficult to lynch N_M
But Pair Layer Half does it, I think, counting that by hand.

We should play social deduction game some today, even if Miltank can't change hearts and minds there's going to another name put at the top.

Dunn, can you explain your Nymph townread?
I want to see some of your thought processes
In a different context from you lunging at me because you think I'm scum
Though that was equally helpful

[popsofctown]

Disappointed but not surprised. Let me think on this a bit.

4 slots 50/50 chance.
I should look at pairs.

Dance with MariaR

[popsofctown]

That's not really the way I usually think about mafia, usually, so my answer is gonna conflict with my read and be Azuresky. She's the most willing to characterize a path besides hers as "wrong" and drives which slots are focused upon sometimes.

[popsofctown]

MariaR probably has a smarter answer

[popsofctown]

Why are you sure the answer is you, Azure? I wasn't sure it was you

[popsofctown]

Am I not subscribed to the right newsletters, why Dunn all of the sudden?

[popsofctown]

Am I not subscribed to the right newsletters, why Dunn all of the sudden?

Do you think our trajectory is correct or needs adjustment?

I think that maybe I need to drop a sandbag of ballast from my hot falling hot air balloon of townreads to correct course mayhaps, but I was leaning more towards hoisting the Nymph sandbag all the way into the basket and trying out looser knots on the Azuresky sandbag and seeing what happens.

As towny as her play started out her motivations have seemed more and more based on some sort of certainties. I don't get how she and Hectic could be convinced Elements would flip town.


That doesn't make me want to kill Dunnstral, I need at least a couple sandbags. To make sandcastles or something

[popsofctown]

A rhetorical question parses as a statement, I think it's fine.

[popsofctown]

Because they looked like town in their posts

This is literally a non-answer.

[popsofctown]

Drunkpops is here to solve the game


I agree with Azure that we should try to flip 1 scum. But, I also agree with MariaR that we should actually start thinking about teams.

Now you are saying, I know what you are saying, pops, you are drunk. But that's rude. It's only ok when I say it. Here is the science. The alchemy

When you put 2 people at the top you basically lynch the top 1 and sane cop the other 1. Because the other 1 will die, unless the mafia uses their only swap to move them away. So using a swap to move them a way tells us it's mafia. There's the trick shenanigan of doing it early to make us think that when it's not true. But you still get to kill 2 people at the same time, so you still have a chance to win. Or like, if it makes you feel better, you can lynch the other mafia not implemented by the trick shenanigan, then come back to the trick shenanigans later. Whatever. I'm not worried about trick shenanigans. Everyone in this playerlist is teddy bears I want to hug and not really tricksie people. Except hectic. So I guess you just do, deathlist the person implemented by the trickshenanigan and hectic, that's another option, one of them flips scum every time. Not mafia maybe would do it too cause he's a troll. I think we're lynching that slot today though for other reasons.

So like, the reason you make teams is, you can put 1 person from 1 team theory at #1 and another person from another team theory at #2. That helps you investigate 2 angles at once. If you double down and just lynch 2 people that would go together. That's dumb. We have a little more time than that. It's like when you play a Phoneix wright game. you want to collect clues on all the quirky npcs not just the one you think really did it. because no matter what you do, maya will convince you it was the other guy, every damn time, so you had better have your clues spread out

so here are the teams, these are the teams i sees

Nymph is scum with Misa, she only makes death lists IRL and not in the context of this game
N_M scum goes with Hectic because that post waffling on Hectics slot was horrifying. Locke never did anything to posture this game in terms of a focus on hectic that would condemn him or even just exonerate him he postured so many other things like asking me to justify my townread on azure and then not caring which was bleh. So I think those are 2 slots you don't lynch at the same time

Ok my my mom called so my eyes went up to "I dont intend to listen to anything N_M hast to say" and like, isn't that kind of a scummy thing to say, like even if N_M's ideas are bad it's like she's trying to shield herself from having to do interactions that are alignment indicative. Azure please come home I miss you you keep doing these things that strain my heart and I want to townread you again.

ok back to pairings

The partner I'd pick for Dunn is MariaR. I see him IDKing her like this as a partner and I think if they rolled scum together they would wanna work really separately and they've been on different things.

The partner I'd pick for Azure is probably also Dunn for like some similar reasons. It kind of explains Dunn townreading her because I didn't really expect him to. If you townread Azure at all to me it wouldn't be the recent play that did the trick.

None of this involves possible bussy pairings I am not ready to open my heart to those. I don't know if we have the etchings in the sands to believe for those

So I really think we should lynch people from different possible pairings

I kind of would rather do N_M MariaR because it follows my pairings rule without touching anything I've ever townread this game

But Dunn was kind of intersectional in the thing I mapped out and now he's refusing to work with me and idk what to do with that.

He kind of refused to work with me in crown so I can't be like oh he wouldn't be obstinate if he cared about saving his hide

so maybe i do need to rethink that

ok that is all

azuresky please don't kill yourself

i like you

ok i'll stop rereading the above post intermittently during my post by people

[popsofctown]

We're lynching Nymph today




shortly after hell freezes over

[popsofctown]

I don't have time for a real post rn.


Running errands

[popsofctown]

Having an agenda isn't the base on why I would find someone scummy. Because I think every player has one to some extent. It's the agenda that your pushing and the actions around it that would make me question it.

Azuresky is really blatant in what they're doing and not trying to hide anything. Along with how they started the game compared to now feels pretty normal to me. You were a lot more of an oddball then that.

Maybe. I just felt like Azuresky was literally lining up lynches which makes the dynamics feel not really town motivated whereas I had probably one read when you said I had an agenda.

I'll let others chime in on this.

mmm fair enough. Can't you say I was doing the same thing? I'm making it no secret who I want my f3 players to be even though I'm lynching around it

What's an f3 player?

Going by just NKA and todays play, my god does it incriminate Nymph.

If you see it from my egotistical point of view, elements should have been shuffled as he was going to get lynched today if he was shuffled because of said shuffle and his D1 play. Now I can think there are a few reasons why Elements was killed:

1. Mafia want to save their shuffle for later, to make sure mafia doesnt get killed at night, making me think its someone with suspison (Dunn/rrrrrrR)
2. To keep giving Pops control of the town, as someone in the mafia is pop’s TR (Locke/Nymph). Given how Hectic and I defended Elements yesterday, maybe mafia was worried that if I could get a townbloc going with Elements/Hectic, mafia would have to try harder. Given how Nymph was looking to raise suspision on me today to her townreads lolR and Pops, Im thinking 2 is the answer.

Nymph says “Why would I put myself at a disadvantage?” But is she? She knows pops is going to WK for her and knows that people are going to follow her so is Nymph really in trouble for making a statement.

A Nymph/NM scumteam autowins tomorrow with my lynch today since Nymph could sheep my previous read on Hectic and get Pops and Maria to lynch.

But hey, its all just NKA, right?

Ok, time for realposting: you opened this post with "going by NKA and todays play", but then basically went on to, "going by NKA and NKA Nymph is scum". And you're right that NKA is weak and all of this is about as weak as any other NKA. It depends on me "staying" "town leader" right after yesterday's lynches were a compromise from my ideal, and

also

depends on my reads staying static, and depends on a lot of perceptions and realities lining up (as an example, as Dunnstral pointed out, he doesn't perceive himself as under suspicion, and if that's equally towntruthtelling and scumtruthtelling that angle is debunked).

I don't get why you're going into nightplay to solve the game, in this setup of all setups. It doesn't seem the natural place to go.
We still need to sort people. If we figure out who the mafia are, we win the game. This setup doesn't turn that on its head or anything. If you want to try to kill Nymph in a way that gives me less than a zillion goosebumps, please case her posts in a way where I believe you believe it instead of this stuff.


I'm a little surprised you're complaining about me ignoring you when I didn't see any direct feedback on the concept of lynching 2 people that belong to different hypothetical pairings today

It's whatever though.

[popsofctown]

GiF posted that he's replacing Azuresky in the Replacements thread. He didn't post about it here.
Did GiF give you the daystart PM Nymph requested Hectic
Or can I be mad about that too

[popsofctown]

It's past 48 hours since daystart and Not_Mafia hasn't posted
The replacements need replacement

[popsofctown]

If people don't play the game we probably get wrecked regardless :/

[popsofctown]

GiF that's not the only vacant slot Not Mafia does not exist

[popsofctown]

..

[popsofctown]

I get the feeling N_M is just going to troll and prodge until we lynch him.

The thing is, with two lynches a day, it matters who the other lynch is, so Azuresky's replacement matters, but that replacement is not forthcoming.

[popsofctown]

I like lynching Locke's slot because we aren't getting more information about its alignment for the rest of the game apparently. Dunnstral and MariaR are going to keep playing. Hectic seems scummy enough that he can just die now whether or not he's going to play later

Could you talk about your Nymph scumread more DDL? I don't effect-in-search-of-a-cause style post mortems over watching how things developed in real time and dongempire was genuinely scummy in a way where you'd really prefer to shake that feeling by seeing further play from that player. I townread Nymph for reaching that kind of stance on the slot in resonance.

Elements is maybe more arguably a lurker mislynch worth some finger pointing, maybe. "I refuse to allow alignment spew day 1" was super weird. But he happened to be next to chemist the way the list ordering played, that's kinda part of this game.

Phone post btw maybe a weird autocorrect

Liking ddl so far

[popsofctown]

Misguided town. R and Nymph’s votes are scummy, at this point it seems like they are fine with letting the game go this way without having a concrete reason for doing so. Active Lurking if you ask me. Also m*R**R’s “catchup” was boring.

Please don't give me this bullshit. We were already extremely tight on time with just over a day left and we haven't bothered to do any sort of shuffle during that time. You're accusing me of being sporadically inactive when I've never came close to a prod timer.

Anyways moving along, we should probably lynch Chemist and have [Elements, Hectic] in the NK pool.

Dong's posts have been bad and using "replacement" as a means to clear the slot is extremely in bad taste.

Im fine with this. Still not liking how the first shuffle went, I think R is still active participating and I feel like scum are just letting us do this.

Thoughts on Locke?

I only surface level read him as town/town-lite because of the sheer amount of bad posts between dong/hectic/elements. I'll give you a better idea what I feel about him after I look at his ISO.

Nymph repeatedly mentions these three players in reads, and this might be surface, but it reads like a 2-town-1-scum type of read IF Nymph is scum

So, it is something you're saying scum would be likely to do. But I'm not getting how it's something town is unlikely to do. To me that seems pretty weak.
Nymph slot has been doing lots of real sorting and doesn't seem to have much survival instinct. You just caught up on the game and didn't draw the same conclusion, somehow.

Re: Dunn: Dunn is kind of always like this. It's possible to read the gentle effort he puts towards his games. MariaR has a pretty good record reading him.


It seems like discussion is shifting toward lynching Hectic and N_M. As I wrote in my drunkpost I think it'd be ideal to follow two breadcrumb trails at once, so I think it'd be better to lynch one of them. The associative Azuresky highlighted was so rancid that I think a red flip on one implicates the other and wins us the game, there's no bonus points for winning faster. But there's a loss of points if we don't lynch someone like Dunn, MariaR, or even DDL (not in a hurry on that) and miss the chance to start figuring out partners for them tomorrow.
Hectic is actively scummier, but N_M is like, scummy slot + policy lynch motivations. I don't care too much which one, I tend to lean towards

policy

lynching people who aren't going to spew their own alignment at all for the rest of the game but Hectic's flip is more informative. +1 for hearing from MariaR why she thinks N_M's lynch can be informative though. I'll take any excuse to do delicious 2009 policy lynching.

For the second lynch Dunnstral is still my leading contender. His last post scumpinged me. I feel like MariaR is demonstrating a town indicative thirst for knowledge. When Dunnstral is only ever offering takes on NAI topics like whether it's ok to replace into a theme micro and play mountainous mafia or not and is being silent Dunnstral the rest of the time, that's not when I feel good about him.

[popsofctown]

VC

Hectic + Dunn (2) : popsofctown, DrDoLittle
Hectic + MariaR (1) :

popsofctown

Hectic + N_M (1) : MariaR
Dunn + N_M (2) : popsofctown, Hectic
Mariar + Dunn (1) : Nymph
N_M + MariaR (1) :

popsofctown

You can vote for multiple options. If you don't let people vote for multiple options you get Compromise Hell like the second day of Role Call 1 and apathy proliferates.
Don't think I've misrepped anyone and please add your votes.
I vastly prefer stuff that doesn't lynch MariaR because I think she's pretty clearly the cleanest among slots getting shaded today, but I dislike lynching pairs that work very well together as scum even more and am not voting those.

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Skip

This is a self vote?

[popsofctown]

During the 60 seconds after voting pair, the swelling tide in your burgeoning heart told you that MariaR is confscum and therefore skip doesn't harm you because removing her !?
Oh wait pair is a more direct self vote.
Dunnstral why are you self voting?
For a second I tried to think whether that would be town-indicative because your pair suicided in Dance. But for the third and fourth second I remembered Bitmap actually left you and you were actually pretty plucky
If you are town please be plucky

[popsofctown]

N_M + MariaR

How do we do this?

I'm mostly sure all pairings are possible, but I did the programming on my work pc and would prefer to answer this on a weekday when it's easier <_<

[popsofctown]

VC

Hectic + Dunn (2) : popsofctown, DrDoLittle
Hectic + MariaR (2) :

popsofctown

, Dunnstral
Hectic + N_M (2) : MariaR, Dunnstral
Dunn + N_M (2) : popsofctown, Hectic
Mariar + Dunn (1) : Nymph
N_M + MariaR (2) :

popsofctown

, Dunnstral

[popsofctown]

VC

Hectic + Dunn (2) : popsofctown, DrDoLittle
Hectic + MariaR (2) :

popsofctown

, Dunnstral
Hectic + N_M (2) : MariaR, Dunnstral
Dunn + N_M (2) : popsofctown, Hectic
Mariar + Dunn (1) : Nymph
N_M + MariaR (2) :

popsofctown

, Dunnstral

[popsofctown]

invaluable feedback miltank..

[popsofctown]

VC

Hectic + Dunn (3) : popsofctown, DrDoLittle, N_M
Hectic + MariaR (2) :

popsofctown

, Dunnstral
Hectic + N_M (2) : MariaR, Dunnstral
Dunn + N_M (-1) :

popsofctown, Hectic

Mariar + Dunn (2) : Nymph, N_M
N_M + MariaR (2) :

popsofctown

, Dunnstral

All actualization methods:
Dunn Hectic: PHR, HR to kill Hectic directly
Maria Hectic: RPR, can't kill Hectic directly
N_M Hectic: RH, PRH to kill Hectic directly
Dunn Maria: This is pair or skip they are just at the top right now
Dunn N_M: IMPOSSIBLE, WOW, shame emoji tear emoji
N_M MariaR: PHR, can't kill MariaR directly



Somehow the function I wrote for half worked when the list was size 9 and fails when it was size 7 even though it didn't directly reference the size.
It's a little fascinating.
Part of me wanted to figure out how that could be so.
Not enough of me, though, I just erased it and rewrote it from scratch and got it working for seven.

[popsofctown]

Mr. Bear Whisperer please participate in the process by which I suck all the fun out of the setup and turn it into standard mafia because town EV is higher in standard mafia.

And cast votes for 2 slots you want lynched.

[popsofctown]

half pair reverse seems to kill Hectic directly and MariaR secondarily so either my program is bugged or I didn't search the possibility listing closely enough

[popsofctown]

how does your voting scheme work? if I cast 3 votes does that mean each has 1/3?

No if you vote for something I take that to mean you're happy enough with it to lynch/compromise lynch it, so if we get to 4 votes on something, which is enough to force through all 3 desired list mutations, then it's hammered and we go for it.

Hectic Dunn and Hectic N_M are both at L-1

[popsofctown]

is it like mariah or maria - ARRR

I explained this earlier this game

LAL you said you were caught up

[popsofctown]

Also, why do people drop the 'R' off "MariaR"? The R is the best part. I say it out loud in my head every time I read it. "Muuuhreeeuuuuhhhaaaawwwwwrrrr". I'm pretty sure the R doesn't stand for anything. It's capitalized to emphasize that when you say her name, you should strongly be overcome by a desire to roar by the end of the word, because she's so alpha.

[popsofctown]

no i read this and she never confirmed whether that's how to say it correctly

MariaR is not the authority on that











MariaR's kitteh is the authority on that

[popsofctown]

If that answers both questions, it must mean you're scumreading the pair so heavily you want skip? Like, there's just no room left for Hectic when both MariaR and Dunnstral need to be studied today, in your view?

I'd posit that lynching just at least 1 of them provides enough of the information you're interested in though. If you lynch one, and one flips town, even if tomorrow is LyLo if you're willing to bet the game on that one-of-the-two theory, lynching just one of them copped the other one then.

[popsofctown]

Dunnstral.
If for no other reason, MariaR might help us solve the game tomorrow, Dunnstral will likely tell us about the agendas against him.

[popsofctown]

Half->Reverse kills Hectic directly and BPs Nymph and pops.
I want to BP my townlock townblock.

[popsofctown]

Half reverse puts nm on top of hectic, i think right

No, when half is performed, the second half is the bigger half, and the first half is the smaller half, which is where you're getting it wrong. It's a little counterintuitive, but shown in the example in the OP.

[popsofctown]

you're right, in the OP the first half is bigger. I could have sworn remembering it the other way

[popsofctown]

Well everything i've posted in the last 24 hrs is wrong

[popsofctown]

Is there a way to lynch Hectic + Dunn?

[popsofctown]

I'm now wondering whether my program was working right this morning

And I just forgot the rules and rejected its result

Have you ever heard the phrase

Problem exists between chair and keyboard?

[popsofctown]

Javascript is gross

[popsofctown]

My alt-hunt guess has turned out to be horribly, terribly wrong

[popsofctown]

So hurtful
All I did is call the language you get paid to write gross
Because it's not the language I get paid to right
And I need to express narcissism
So what did I do to deserve such punishment

[popsofctown]

My alt-hunt guess has turned out to be horribly, terribly wrong

bad pops, don't alt hunt

It's involuntary

[popsofctown]

You're not RC because you're not scumreading popsofctown

[popsofctown]

when i did mine i had to list 9 names

also i had to walk to school in the snow and it was uphill both ways

[popsofctown]

I only have to change like 8 characters in my program to fix it when I'm back at work

But if you are having fun coding you can do one too

[popsofctown]

Scumbag Nymph

tells me not to alt-hunt

dangles time-zone clues and tempts me

so hurtful

[popsofctown]

I'll fix my program tomorrow and then it will have fresh results

which will have been produced by the beautiful language of C

which is beautiful due to its imperfections not in spite of them

[popsofctown]

I actually didn't know that.

That might have to count.

[popsofctown]

Yeah the program was right the first time I just had to reuse the old function.
New table:
Hectic Dunnstral: impossible
N_m dunnstral: impossible
MariaR dunnstral: skip/pair
N_M MariaR: pair reverse half, but pair half half to kill MariaR directly
N_M Hectic: half reverse then pair if you want to
MariaR Hectic: reverse half reverse, can't be reordwred.

Apparently Dunnstral can't be killed alongside someone I find scummy, and he's not total obvscum that makes me willing to kill MariaR or a hard townread with the splash damage.

I'm in favor of N_M Hectic now, which violates my pairings thesis but it turns out two of the pairings that align with my reads are impossible so my choices are limited.

[popsofctown]

Based on last VC it looks like DDL or Nymph would have to support Hectic +N_M lynch for us to hammer it

[popsofctown]

VOTE: half

[popsofctown]

Half reverse skip is [Locke Hectic dunnstral MariaR popsofctown Azuresky Nymph]
Half reverse pair is [Hectic Locke MariaR Dunnstral Azuresky popsofctown Nymph]

I like the first one better because if scum want to kill someone yet pass up on killing Nymph MariaR is the one who has the kind of towngame someone might be afraid of.

[popsofctown]

Replacements in the list are for people who got replaced obv

too much work to rewrite my the names when someone gets replaced

and mental overhead converting from the data dump sheet is taxing

[popsofctown]

Dunn hammer plox

[popsofctown]

VOTE: reverse

[popsofctown]

Both pair an no-pair offer scum the option to shoot an obvtown because they can shoot Nymph. Whether they can also shoot me instead is irrelevant. If you think Nymph is someone that can slip back into lynchpools then like maybe I do need to stay alive to make sure I'm here to yell at you guys, though.

No-pair BPs the slots most likely to re-solve and reconsider this game which is slots scum might shoot if they are winning and coasting right now.

It's not a big enough difference to go to war over but that's my take on it.

[popsofctown]

I'm less worried about the subset of games where Hectic is scum than I am the games where N_M is scum.

Because if Hectic is scum I think only one or two people can be his partner.

And if N_M is scum he could be scum with anybody as far as I can tell

[popsofctown]

DrDolittle it's really cool your mom plays mafia, my mom will only ever play stuff like scrabble

[popsofctown]

I have been trying to learn the new school lingo "lolcatting" that apparently came into being while I was away from site.

Is this "lolcatting" or is lolcatting something different I'm trying to learn the term

[popsofctown]

So this would only be "lolcatting" if Not_Mafia was going to flip town?

Or is the central issue that he identifies as a Miltank and not a feline.

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Skip

If N_M is somehow town I'd rather find out immediately instead of having it mess up our solve tomorrow. If scum do a WIFOM shuffle we could lynch !town N_M tomorrow and lose.

[popsofctown]

I think lightener means I'm awesome. That's what I'm gonna assume.

[popsofctown]

Hectic could townspew or re-solve tomorrow, but N_M is not going to change. So that's definitely the lesser evil.

[popsofctown]

I'll hammer pair if people insist on it.
Pretty sure that would be followed by scum using Reverse, and then I lose Nymph-chan

[popsofctown]

I had a pretty good hopes for Hectic scum but guess not.

I reread Locke's iso during night and felt like he works with everyone pretty well, except that his early interactions with Nymph seemed like they'd require a really broad range to be SvS. That might be confirmation bias because I'm townreading Nymph, but I'm not interested in re-evaluating that slot until LyLo earlier than LyLo.

[popsofctown]

I think if GiF revoked posting privileges besides naked votes that's probably where we would end up. What do you want to accomplish by posting that though, MariaR? I know there's times it's correct to TR fatalism but it can be a trap too, it's not what I want to be the basis for sorting you today.

[popsofctown]

So are you making an avant-garde argument "it's correct to selfhammer as town here"?
It's not necessarily internally inconsistent but I want to confirm that. It's definitely rare. Last time I saw it was maybe unwnd

[popsofctown]

Real?

[popsofctown]

I prefer doing some dayplay and stuff.
Those are the two scummiest slots but Hectic flipped green so they could both flip green and in that case I'd want to hear some input from them before rushing and jamming skip.

[popsofctown]

Why can't you make these category of posts when I'm sober

[popsofctown]

MariaR is smart and she can judge who is the correct town to put on top.

i know i've been drinking but lol slip??

[popsofctown]

it doesn't work as a slip cause you'd have to be scum with mariaR I think and there's just 1 scum

[popsofctown]

math question

if you locktown 2 slots correctly

is that the same as winning?

[popsofctown]

in normal 4:1 you have to locktown 3 slots correctly to win

so that would be

whether this is the same or different

[popsofctown]

no it can't be just 1

Cause say GiF says Nymph is IC

we vote skip
No matter who is lynched between DDL and pops, the other one could be scum and could change the list and survive

I think it's 2