Newbie 1959 | Stuff I Found Online Xv | Over

[Chibiie]

Well, good luck & have fun!

[Chibiie]

So, this is my first game on this platform and did not expect people to vote day 1.
I will abstain until more chatter and a chance to start accusing people.

FeelsBadMan 'cos I'm a newbie.

[Chibiie]

Since this is RVS and you're teaching me about that, I will gladly VOTE: Saladman27

I guess this is how it works, am I right?

[Chibiie]

So let me understand, after all this voting, we get the results, but what's next phase?
8 Days deadline, wow.

//off-topic: teacher, I've updated my avi, hope you like it
Also hope that it'll be recognized by the community later after more games.

[Chibiie]

Most games on here start off with RVS which is where we all randomly vote someone for bullshit reasons.

It helps to promote discussion and get us talking. Eventually someone is bound to say something scummy or do something to get us out of RVS.

The long deadline is there to account for real life circumstances such as work/school/etc.

I know Mafia, is that I do not know what time are we on right now...
Still Day 1, not Night 1, right? I guess the thread name will change when Night 1 comes and stuff.

[Chibiie]

Yup. Its to keep the game balanced and ensure that everyone gets to play. Also so the randomness factor is minimized and scum dont get lucky/unlucky kills.

Are you anxious to chat with your scummate, and thats why you're asking?

I appreciate your help
That question can lead to a perfect scum-read, but that only depends on the scum reaction, however, I must ask you, how would you answer that question as Town?

[Chibiie]

That was me, not aaron but no problem.
I would say "yeah, cant wait." Its a bit of a loaded question but i am gesting so however you answer that is fine, so long as you answer it naturally.

I'm trying to get used to this forum and reply system...
Haven't been browsing a forum in a long time, sorry.

[Chibiie]

1. What is your experience at Mafia
2. How do you play as town
3. How do you play as scum
4. What do you think gives away a player as scum or town
5. Time zone/standard posting times

Firstly, apologies for the late reply, I have a pretty busy schedule... I'm working in a corporation, so I believe you can understand why I say "busy schedule"...

1. I play a ton of IRL Social Deduction games, Mafia included, this is my first time playing on such a platform (forum) and the games seem very very long and too little information, also I have to re-read the whole game to connect dots.
2. I usually hide my role as town until I read at least one more Townie and then do my best to show myself to them only, creating a circle of trusted players to work around with... It does happen that sometimes I misread and add a scum in the circle, but 90% my Townie playstyle shines.
3. Pretty much the same as my playstyle as scum, however, I add confusion and try my best to

not

push lynches because any mislynch pushed by someone will automatically put some suspicion on me.
4. Aggressive plays, trying to team up with confirmed players and pushing them into sharing the same vote. Also acting "confirmed" after a scum-buddy is being lynched.
5. Bucharest, GMT +3

[Chibiie]

From my point of view and my understandings from this game, (disclaimer, this is my first time playing a game of Mafia that lasts DAYS, so gathering info can be pretty hard due to long discussions) I can see that everyone has some kind of logic behind their posts.

IMO, just so I can try and lift a little off my "suspicious" silence and "suspicious" cute name, I will share my thoughts:

Saladman started strong initiating the RVS and voting against teacher, but that's RVS and he voted teacher probably due to previous encounter in a different game, that's how it looks to me. (ofc, I needed more info which was later revealed, I couldn't assume this based on Salad's first post, so thank you for getting more in-depth with your discussion).

Short about Salad: I believe he had a pretty straight and logical play there, showing that they know each other, so they do have some kind of experience reading each other, therefore I UNVOTE: Salad

Dong for some reason seems like he did encounter these two (Salad and teacher) in a previous game, however, there was a sudden shift in your opinion over his calmness and teacher highlighted these himself (post #56 and #102 are contradictory, but posts are in between, moods change with the discussion's flow).

In between there were a couple of other peeps that showed up and these are Aaron, George, Yoda and Spartan, but weren't as influencing to me as the 3 peeps mentioned earlier.

Spartan did have some kind of logic, but it's clear that he hasn't encountered all or even any of you in previous games.

Merfin did pushed me to post since "There is that chiibi person.", however, too little information on me, especially due to lack of participation in the conversation by my side, although I appreciate not putting a vote on me, so I'll call it a soft pat on the back to speak my thoughts.
It looks like he's interested in information and I totally agree, Day 1 is pretty much just chatting on different game subject or general logic just to have grasp of the peeps you're surrounded in-game.

With all said and done, I will currently VOTE: Spartan only because of #38 where he "has no issue with hammering anyone here provided he thinks they are scum."

Sorry for the long post, busy schedule so whenever I make time to post, I try my best to add all info I gathered and present my logic.

[Chibiie]

I’m hating the slowness of the game. I’ve got like 2 reads out of rand and we are a couple days in. Let’s try some getting to know you questions to hopefully start things off into the week. All slots kindly answer.

1. What is your experience at Mafia
2. How do you play as town
3. How do you play as scum
4. What do you think gives away a player as scum or town
5. Time zone/standard posting times

I believe these are the questions, Dong.

[Chibiie]

Chibiie
In post 98, Chibiie wrote:
2. I usually hide my role as town until I read at least one more Townie and then do my best to show myself to them only, creating a circle of trusted players to work around with... It does happen that sometimes I misread and add a scum in the circle, but 90% my Townie playstyle shines.

I'd worry if Chibiie is town that he could be impressionable and get pocketed by scum, although its very hard when you get strong feelings of someones townie behaviour, I've been pocketed in the past its very frustrating.

In post 131, Chibiie wrote:
With all said and done, I will currently VOTE: Spartan only because of #38 where he "has no issue with hammering anyone here provided he thinks they are scum."

Can you please explain to me how having no issue hammering anyone here that I think is scum is a scummy thing to say? Sure as the game goes on and myself and I'd hope all of you get town reads of people we tend to be less likely to want to hammer/lynch them. if anything its NAI.

In post 131, Chibiie wrote:
Saladman started strong initiating the RVS and voting against teacher, but that's RVS and he voted teacher probably due to previous encounter in a different game, that's how it looks to me. (ofc, I needed more info which was later revealed, I couldn't assume this based on Salad's first post, so thank you for getting more in-depth with your discussion).

Short about Salad: I believe he had a pretty straight and logical play there, showing that they know each other, so they do have some kind of experience reading each other, therefore I UNVOTE: Salad

Also could you explain to me your reasoning for why you unvoted salad as I cant seem to understand your reasoning here.

In post #19, Spartan votes himself (RVS), however, IMO, in Mafia type games, regardless of being a Townie or a Scum, everyone plays Town... That is the basic idea where the game starts... Everyone. Is. Town.
Does Town wants Townies to die? Nope... Will a Town vote a Town if they know they're town? Nope...
For me, that's a unjustified play that can be used in order to break the ice of the game, however, will always be a bad play in my opinion, regardless of game phase...

Later on in #36, after a little chatter and ideas exchange, he turns around and votes teacher to an L-1 // "If anyone has intent to hammer announce so that he has a chance to roll claim." // legit play, not gonna lie, that's a solid play from what I see as game mechanics on this platform, 'cause being able to fluster someone, maybe even straight-up scare someone and get a reaction out of it, is a solid play and a good information-gathering tool.

However, the fact that in #38 he enforces the hammer part of his #36 makes me feel like his true intent is to have someone lynched D1, which I'm completely against.

I'mma be straight honest here, I'd rather be killed in Night 1 and have my death help Town track down the Mafia than have a mislynch D1.


///// Regarding Salad, I' ve stated my reasoning for unvoting him pretty clear... His play shows relationship to me, I want Salad, teacher and Dong (these 3 seem to know each other) alive so they can talk and read eachother, they'll either end up in the same team or different, right? Having a group of players that already have a grasp of each other's playstyles is a strong weapon for us, who didn't played with them before, because we're new and they need time to adjust with our amounts of posts, the level of interest in conversation and strategies overall (I am more of a logical, connect-the-dots type of player, will use any little information, even the order of ideas in one's post, even yours, I take notice of player's order in your post), but they can read each other to a certain level based on previous games... I want to have that, as a new player here, I will honestly abuse this.

[Chibiie]

Also, I would like to throw a disclaimer:

"Chibiie, if you're against lynching D1, why did you vote him?"

I'm spreading the votes, keeping them unorganized and making sure that people don't actually lynch someone D1, that would be a mess and may or may not give a lead start to scums.

[Chibiie]

-snip-

I'mma be straight honest here, I'd rather be killed in Night 1 and have my death help Town track down the Mafia than have a mislynch D1.

-snip-

I have always gone with lynching, even if it's a mislynch. IMO, a no lynch doesn't give as much information as a mislynch.

In a 9 players situation, there's 18% chance of mislynching... It doesn't look a lot, but having no information, think about it this way: We mislynch, there's a chance of losing of a good detective role (tracker, cop, jailkeeper, yes jailer is a detective role since he can isolate players and have 1-on-1 anonymous conversation with them, he's also a big threat to scums and also a protector for Townies in special situations of high threat towards confirmed Townies, mislynching this role is the biggest Town loss).

If we're part of A3 or C3, then losing on Town Mason is bad too, because there's already a 2/9 players that already know each other's alignments and can work together in solving this puzzle. A3 / C3 Masons have the Town majority and should be treated as important roles too, we must not mislynch these.

Think about it this way: You mislynch and lose the Doctor... Cop / Tracker, depending on the setup will suffer since he will not be able to bluntly put down his info in thread as he will be targeted next instantly...

Mislynching puts pressure on Town and good scums take advantage of this... Yoda, idk what to say man, but your reasoning don't feel very well-tought to me and if I may join the Town/Scum thingy, I would say I don't trust anyone, which is normal for this point in-game, but the bottom of my list ends with Yoda.

[Chibiie]

A3 / C3 Masons have the town's majority as early game confirmed roles (not really confirmed, but I believe you understand my logic)

[Chibiie]

-snip-

I'mma be straight honest here, I'd rather be killed in Night 1 and have my death help Town track down the Mafia than have a mislynch D1.

-snip-

I have always gone with lynching, even if it's a mislynch. IMO, a no lynch doesn't give as much information as a mislynch.

I agree with yoda here. With a lynch whether it be town or scum thats lynched, you get to see the journey to it, giving you information on those who pushed it, those who didnt and stayed off, and everything in between.
With just the night kill all the information you get is the persons role and half the alignment of the convos that person had with other people which anyone can say it is just a TvT argument without the pressure, with a lynch you get the reactions of the person lynched and all those involved, so for Chibiie to go through the effort of avoiding lynching is anti town imo, not sure yet if its necessarily scummy, I want to know what everyone else thinks on this.

When you admit to everyone that you are trying not to lynch anyone the weight of your words to them and your vote lose a lot of value and pressure.

I completely disagree and stand by my #156 post.

[Chibiie]

Where do you get 18% mislynch? at any town players perspective there are 6 other town and 2 mafia, would you not have a 6/8 chance for a mislynch which is 75%. Your whole argument against a lynch seems that if we get a mislynch not only do we lose a town that there is a chance we lose a power role, which is why we have people like myself say declare intent to hammer before you do so that they can claim their role so as to not lynch a power role, as if someone claims a power role they are either that role or scum so that gives us info there, obliviously I do not want the power roles to be known but I don't think avoiding a lynch just because there is a risk of lynching town is the way to go.

What is your scum read on yoda based on, can you elaborate, is it just that he doesn't agree with you?

1. I did my math wrong, I'm sorry, you are correct on the percentage.
2. At one point in-game, the most standard Town playstyle is that at least one power role that can gather info will show himself to the world while protective roles stay hidden and protect them as many nights as possible while Vanilla Townies will most likely try to mislead scums into targeting them.
3. I didn't say I "scumread", but I don't see him very aware of the consequences of a mislynch...
4. You don't look very aware either...

In my experience in social deduction games, I've never considered throwing someone random under the bus for info as a valid play... My goal as townie is to win with as many Townies alive as possible.
Whenever I play Mafia, my perfect strategy is to have Mafia mess up N1. Here someone will say "but how you gather info then?"... We have POWER ROLES, this is their job... "What does Mafia mess up N1 means?" Attacking a healed target. Someone will figure out why that person is attacked, people will turn heads towards the attacked person and will know that 1. He's Townie confirmed for being targeted by Mafia and 2. People will investigate his relationships with everyone and it'll lead them to who could possibly be Mafia and throw their best shot of getting rid of one scum in D2 lynch.

Power roles are there for a reason... They're offensive, support and investigative... Make the best out of them.

[Chibiie]

I hope everyone understands my point of view... I'm against a D1 lynch. Not against pushing people to make them talk, but against actually lynching someone. I see no misplay in any of your posts, you're all having valid arguments, looking for slip-ups, but D1 isn't the perfect time.

I will stand by my word and that rather than having both D1 mislynch and N1 Mafia kill, I'd cut it down to N1 Mafia kill or hopefully to a N1 Mafia healed target. That's more info in my opinion, that's where good reactions come from. D1 mislynch will not gather very much info, just one person less to argue and possibly a lost power role.

If it's a mislynch, it could lead to pushing towards the one who first pushed the vote and if that person is also Townie, I can only think about the biggest mess ever... You guys have your own experiences and you know how to play your way, I'm very excited to see different playstyles on this platform. I'm curious on how will I enjoy this website later after this game is over.

[Chibiie]

I'm starting to see the benefit for scum, to starve us of information by pushing for a no-lynch as weird as it may sound.

As bad as that sounds, It has been proven before, in most games, that scums mess-up in that situation.

Also, I would like to point out that even if we kill a Vanilla Townie... That vote is important, that mind is important and his opinion, even if we don't know he's Townie... His information is important because this is a game of accusations. We accuse each other, we throw confusion, we throw facts, sometimes we make up scenes and sometimes we play prophet. (btw, off-topic, but prophet plays are king, idk if you have experienced this "prophet" play but is a bluff strategy where, usually, a townie power role manipulates Mafia targeting a player by using words only and foresees the following night actions perfectly, it is all manipulation, btw)

There are no benefits to scums to be honest... They're in the same boat as us.
We can either mislynch a townie power role, we can lynch a Mafia power role, we can mislynch a vanilla townie, we can lynch a vanilla Mafia, there's countless outcomes for this game overall.

For D1 however, I wanna keep it 9/9. This is my playstyle, if peeps are against it, there's no need for 9/9 votes to lynch anyway. I just wanna play D1 safe and have as many people help me on solving this puzzle.

[Chibiie]

Also, I'm pretty sure that scums will always be happier with a D1 lynch... That's one target less on their list.
It is risky for both scums and townies, true, any alignment may die in this situation, but I'm pretty damn sure that in a 75% chance of mislynch situation, scums will ALWAYS be happier with D1 lynching... D1 is not about pressure, is about getting to know each and every player's playstyle as in: way of talking, logic behind decisions, thought process, etc.

[Chibiie]

I come from a different background of social deduction games.
My Mafia games were not this long, so I can understand the D1 lynching reason.

[Chibiie]

That being said, I think Chiibie gets some town points for bringing up the idea. I can see why scum would want to push a no lynch but I think it's more likely that newbie town would think that no lynching is beneficial (heck I had the same thought process in my first game). Chiibie seemed to bring up the idea with good intentions so I don't think it's scum motivated.

But couldn't that go both ways? A newb scum could think that's a good idea to bring up.

That's just a weird question to ask and a simple, yet complex statement you're bringing.

After studying the "meta" of this forum, I understand how Mafia is played here, however, it is still Mafia and my thought process does not change based on platform I play on. D1 lynching is still a no-no for me, that's just how I play and everyone's logic works different, we find and inspect different clues for the same case.

Anyway, what's interesting to me and would like to ask you, if possible, to walk me through the logic of saying "A newb scum could think that's a good idea to bring up".

Chibii:

Although suggesting that there shouldn't be a d1 lynch seems scummy, It sounds like it was just a misinfo play, rather than a play trying to stall the game.

I mean, logically speaking, you not talking bulls, you're working some logic and everything that a player says can be interpreted as a townplay or scumplay, however, I see a little bit of contradiction here.

Sorry for quoting these in the wrong order, but I'm a messy mind myself, my thought process and logic work a little slower due to trying my best to work in-depth details.

Anyway, I don't see you playing scum at all, on my TL you were around mid-way, kind of, however, scumreading Salad, which from my point of view looks very netural (I cannot get a proper read out of his posts and actions), looks unjust to me. Salad play in his last post, in my opinion, is a scumbait and now he's waiting on people to react on his action in order to scumread someone.

I honestly have no idea if that's any relevant to Salad's true intent behind that play or he's actually just very indecisive and has legit used a website to decide on the vote lmao.

I agree, we need to lynch anyone today, rn I honestly don’t care if it’s a mislynch today, info is better none. So let’s spice things up.
Using random.org I will vote one of the top 2 wagons.
Heads = Spartan
Tails = Dong
random.org says

Tails

VOTE: Dong

I would like to know everyone's opinion on this play.
As I mentioned earlier, even if I ruined it now, I believe it is a scumbait and I consider this a townie-play.
My updated list is below. Let me know what you guys think.

Spoiler:

Town:

Salad

AaronFrost

Spartan (I'm leaving my vote on him, but it means nothing)

Teacher

Neutral:

Dongempire (I'm still studying him and his posts)

Merfin (Haven't seen him joining and move the game in a direction yet)

Yoda (Following along, taking part into arguments, however, not very big impacts on the game progression)

Scum:

GeorgeBailey

[Chibiie]

Anyway, I don't see you playing scum at all, on my TL you were around mid-way, kind of, however, scumreading Salad, which from my point of

view looks very netural (I cannot get a proper read out of his posts and actions),

looks unjust to me.

Salad play in his last post, in my opinion, is a scumbait and now he's waiting on people to react on his action in order to scumread someone.

[...]

Town:
[*]Salad
[*]AaronFrost
[*]Spartan (I'm leaving my vote on him, but it means nothing)
[*]Teacher

Neutral:
[*]Dongempire (I'm still studying him and his posts)
[*]Merfin (Haven't seen him joining and move the game in a direction yet)
[*]Yoda (Following along, taking part into arguments, however, not very big impacts on the game progression)

Scum:

GeorgeBailey

Just thought I'd highlight this point where Chibiie says they dont think george is scum at all then put him at the bottom of the list as scum...

I would like to point out you only partially highlighted my post, as I mentioned why I've put him at the bottom of my list.

IMO, Salad is the most neutral read I have, therefore I gave him towncred. His plays are literally just... I haven't seen him getting too involved and that either because he doesn't want much attention on him (assuming he is PR, anyone can be at this point, we still haven't pushed someone to claim), or he's taking part of this game out of respect (assuming he's just a Vanilla Town with no other power, but to help us solve the puzzle).

I could've also assumed he's scum, however, I trust that a scum will select a target to try and push for a lynch. A specific target, someone that can be read as a big influence for Town... ANYWAY, moving on, I'm getting too much into my head and will end up with another huge post, not all information I'm running through is important, I'm still having trouble organizing the game in my head, too many thoughts on these interactions.

ANYWAY, reasons for why I've put George at the bottom of my list are the followings:

[*]Pushes - He voted Merfin's slot (Gimm1ck) which was ok and stuff, game was progressing, questions were being asked and so on, however, once Dong became a wagon, his mood changed... He started to attract attention off of Dong... There's 2 explanations in my opinion: 1. They're scumbuddies, simple as that; 2. They're Masons, interesting, but he should be more townie if so...
[*]Calling my play scummy, but not scummy... Is it newbtown that plays a no lynch-D1? Is it newbscum that has such a play? I mean, whenever people want to point fingers, I want to see solid reasoning behind.

So far, I've put George at the bottom of my list because of his uncertainty...
He's fidgeting between pushes, he's not really jumping on a wagon... I don't do either, but I've explained my reason earlier and I stand by my word

I understand the D1 lynch meta now that I've studied the forum and would like to join in, however, that would turn me into a "scum" for not backing-up my play.

[Chibiie]

Or am I missing something? If so please tell me what you have put that shows your scumread on george with explanation.

I've literally did...

[...]

ANYWAY, reasons for why I've put George at the bottom of my list are the followings:

[*]Pushes - He voted Merfin's slot (Gimm1ck) which was ok and stuff, game was progressing, questions were being asked and so on, however, once Dong became a wagon, his mood changed... He started to attract attention off of Dong... There's 2 explanations in my opinion: 1. They're scumbuddies, simple as that; 2. They're Masons, interesting, but he should be more townie if so...
[*]Calling my play scummy, but not scummy... Is it newbtown that plays a no lynch-D1? Is it newbscum that has such a play? I mean, whenever people want to point fingers, I want to see solid reasoning behind.

So far, I've put George at the bottom of my list because of his uncertainty...
He's fidgeting between pushes, he's not really jumping on a wagon... I don't do either, but I've explained my reason earlier and I stand by my word

I understand the D1 lynch meta now that I've studied the forum and would like to join in, however, that would turn me into a "scum" for not backing-up my play.

[Chibiie]

I've literally did...

Was that from #204 no its from #280 which is 28 hours later, I'm asking where you have said why you put george as your hard scum read in #204 maybe you put it in a previous post

before

#204 if so great show me, but strictly in #204 you said

I dont see you playing Scum at all

with no counter point as to why you actually think hes scum as you put him as your hardscum read, anyone can post a day later with reasons after they have taken the time to go through and cover their tracks, but

at that time

I don't see it, so if its there at #204 or before show me, thanks.

If you read my #204 post a couple time, you should understand what I am implying. Mafia, just like Plotinus said it too, is a psychological game where we try to guess the colour of people's role cards based on their behaviour. (I can feel the british in your colo

u

r and behavio

u

r )
Scums will act as Townie as possible in order to not be lynched early on in the game and I can see the reason behind D1 lynching, as info is very important here, where the game goes on for a solid week and more. The only leads we get in these past days are strictly from human interaction right now... We're challenging the logic of each other in order to try and guess who's Town and who's scum.

In #204, I've asked George what does my play mean to him, requesting a no lynch-D1, is it scummy or townie? I've actually pointed out that there is a contradiction in his posts, ultimately claiming that my play isn't scummy, nor townie, but a newbplay and should be considered neutral basically, am I right, George?

"Anyway, I don't see you playing scum at all, on my TL you were around mid-way, kind of, however, scumreading Salad [...]"

^ This is what I call a bit of a words play, because everyone was pretty much equal on my trusted list, it's just D1, we're still deciding on who to lynch and start to

actually

accuse people under valid reasons and study the links between players and I've never called him

scum

, however, out of everyone's engagement in the game, his is the strangest to

me

(This is my point of view), but that's due to defending a wagon for quite a while and also for his lack of confidence when trying to prove his process of decision-making.

I've updated the list afterwards and called Towns, Neutrals and Scums, but you all really are just unknown to me in this early-stage of the game and all I'm doing is analyzing your chatter, but also trying to engage and pull opinions and thoughts out of y'all.

I really enjoy this platform, the game is very fun to me, enjoying the process of a days-long Mafia game.

[Chibiie]

Time to explain something about what I look for when I am scum hunting;
Scum generally want to avoid being lynched day one and individually do not want attention on themselves (which is why pressure and rvs swinging is very beneficial to give reads). Scum want to appear nonchalant for the majority of day one to avoid being lynched, giving reactions to town, or making any hint towards their partner(s).

A side affect from this is that scum tend to not make any extremely polarizing reads in fear of either being caught on lackluster logic and counterwagoned onto, or being OMGUSsed /FOSed due to their reads. That leads them to play somewhat passively and attempt to maintain a neutral posture on wagons.

For D1, I believe this applies for everyone. Nobody wants to get lynched D1, regardless of alignment, be it scum or town, however, I don't really agree on your statement "That leads them to play somewhat passively and attempt to maintain a neutral posture on wagons."... Scums know each other, they shouldn't be scared to push someone, their goal is to push town to mislynch and kill at night, but make it in a way that won't backfire on them...

In the same time, it depends on players and how they believe they can win and however they plan their moves.
Anyway, I just wanted to point that out because walking through the pages of the game, you can see that at some point everyone was pointing fingers at someone for a reason, nobody was passive. Your statement is real, but in this game... You could call me the passive one for refusing a D1-lynch, however, I do have someone I would like to lynch too due to my reads and I've already mentioned that in #204 and later explained more in-depth in #280, ultimately (and hopefully) completely cleared things out in #290.

I agree that scums could play passive, but in this game, nobody was passive.

[Chibiie]

Actually, I could call Salad as being the netural and passive one, but at the same time, I doubt his reasoning for that is being scum.
I stand by my #280 regarding Salad.

Let the game progress!

[Chibiie]

I'm currently in a location with limited access to internet and only my mobile phone, tomorrow morning I will be back and will put down my thoughts on these recent plays, I'm sorry for inactivity, I travel with work.

[Chibiie]

1) To confuse us. Pretty much everyone expressed some concerns against him during the last day phase, so keeping him alive and having the town pressure and possibly mislynch him would be the optimal choice, but sometimes scum will make sub-optimal choices for the purpose of throwing us off. This seems unlikely to happen, especially in a Newbie game.

Disclaimer: I'm on phone, the following text might be confusing and completely messed up order-wise.

Aaron, I thought about this as well and sincerely, my opinion is that this kill is a framing / blackmail kill.
George was indeed in a soft conflict with probably everyone, however, being that it was D1, it was unfortunate that Dong got mislynched and fact happens that George was defending him, but IMO defending someone who isn't pushed to L-1 and NOT having a solid reason behind (being Masons), looked suspicious to me (I didn't read entirely through all posts so I'm not 100% sure on everyone else's thoughts about that). I'll call that George's misplay.

I believe this was a blackmail kill and will be used for the next lynch. I will write a longer and more detailed post tomorrow and I also hope that people will talk more about it by that time so I can also place my vote.

[Chibiie]

To bring some sort of substance that’s probably been said before, scum probably killed George because his posts sounded PR like.

Regarding this, I'm not a really big fan of this post...
I'll take Gimm1ck's post and put it here as a reply to you, Salad. Will also add my thoughts at the end of the post.

Georgebruedly kill can be taken three ways:

1. Obvtownies are really scum.

2. Null kill to prevent reads from flips and/or an attempt to throw off town.

3. PR read.

I am inclining the third option as incorrect as I see no real reason to PR read George from anywhere on site.

Given the first case scenario, I believe the two most obvious townies to be teacher and Aaron.

Given the second, it is possibly a scum tactic to divert attention to the obvious townies and to shine some negative light on them, which I find to be the most plausible explanation of the night kill.

Going over yesterday's lynches and seeing what we can see. I am still mobile and having some internet connection issues, but I'll get out as much as I can, when I can.

I disagree that Dong should have been lynched yesterday, which is why I am returning to VOTE: Saladman

I agree with Gimm1ck on this one for the sole reason that everyone was in a soft conflict with George. IMO there was not a single PR read through his posts... Maybe that of Masons (Dong - George), but that was quickly erased once he decided to protect himself and admit that he was defending Dong too much and also that he voted against him.

As of now, Salad has been pretty chill, which makes me think that he is indeed scum. He's not really sharing full thoughts in-game and just keeps a low-profile. This is kind of a throw off for me since I could also say he's PR then and does not want attention, BUT keeping too low of a profile can backfire...

I'm not really sure who to vote, because when reviewing the game, I can also see Yoda being a little scummy.

My bottom 3 are Dong(maybe), Salad(more than likely), George(more than likely).

Remember this? I think I can connect some dots now, but it is just a speculation, BUT I might be correct, idk.

Scum1 will vote for scum2 to distance themselves, especially if they know that the other person is caught. That way, they(1) can say that they were town because they(1) were part of the vote that lynched scum2.

Next post after saying this (distance of 72 posts, lol a few pages later), he votes against Salad after having somewhat kind of logic behind, but IMO that logic was scumlogic which himself wrote it right ^there (#205).

Plus, I know that my post count is the lowest but if you look at the actual content, I think Salad has had the least to add. I only mention this because people keep talking about my post count. I honestly think that Merfin added more to the game than Salad. At least Merfin had a post explaining why they voted for someone and had examples.

VOTE: Salad

This is what makes me a little uncomfortable, because I see Yoda going against Salad, but not before posting #205 and neither before #186. It is a little sketchy because I have the feeling that I've solved the game, but at the same time I have a strong feeling that one of them is Town, but not both.

Another thing that makes me suspicious of Yoda is that he doesn't really share thoughts and has mostly replied with one-liners that are not helpful to solving the game.

As I said earlier in #353 and could also tell in this post, I believe this was a blackmail / framing kill (or as Gimm1ck and Aaron said, a kill to throw Town off). There's not much that I can add about this NK.

Peeps, y'all pushing Salad on the chopping block and I couldn't agree more, but I will abstain from voting until I read everyone's thoughts on this NK...

Spoiler: Here's my updated list

Town:

AaronFrost

Teacher

Gimm1ck

Neutral:

Spartan (could even put him as Town, but there are a few questions I need answers to, hopefully before we lynch someone)

Scum:

Yoda

Salad

I wanna hear everyone thoughts on the NK before I place my vote. That would be (in order of

Not Voting:

posted by out dear mod Plotinus) Saladman27, Spartan117, teacher.

Side-note: I would really like your thoughts on my speculations, Aaron and teacher, since you are the most loved Towns in my eyes (and probably everyone else) and I trust that you will have the biggest part in solving this game.

[Chibiie]

I guess that's because during the main parts of the conversation, things I would have said were already stated and I didn't want to come off as parroting. My mistake for keeping a low-ish profile.

This is the thing in Mafia, in order to solve the game, players must share their thoughts, regardless of repeating a statement. It is impossible for two individuals from different parts of the world / state, to have the exact same reasoning...

It is possible to have the same mindset (I'm not sure what other word to use, but basically believe the same thing), however, you can't have a 1:1 thought process. There must be something one didn't mention, so even if you repeat the same statement, I'm sure there's stuff you can add from YOUR perspective.

Just like I did earlier, I'm 100% agreeing with Gimm1ck's post, however, I've added my stream of thoughts in there so we can elaborate on the same assumption and have the game progress further.

Will keep you on my list as it is.
Still not voting until I hear everyone's thoughts on NK and I also wanna see lists, I'm curious of current relationships.

[Chibiie]

What changed your read on Salad between days?

So, I'm not sure how to answer this question since I've pretty much explained everything so far, but I'll reinforce my reasoning then... At the end of the post so I answer both you and Salad at the same time.
In the meantime I'll address the followings:

I think the likely explanation for GeorgeBailey's death was that scum thought he was a PR.

If that's the case, I truly believe that none of the SE or experienced with Mafia overall is actually scum. In an earlier post you said that all I did feels like newb!town to you, I would like you to define "newb". Is it platform-wise or general Mafia game-wise?

I'm actually curious because you're also the one who said that this NK was something an SE would do to throw Town off, yet now you say that it is likely that George was read as PR.

Any experienced Mafia player should be able to see that (and this is my point of view only, as always) George had no PR-hints in his posts, besides the possible Masons (Dong / George), otherwise, I, personally couldn't see any other PR-hints.

I call this a contradiction, which makes me wanna lower you down on my TL, there are so many games where obvtown is actually scum and plays a perfect Town.

It is still possible, I'll still count it.
Is this

probability

or

possibility

?

I think Salad/Chiibie could be the team. Salad/Yoda is also possible.

I don't think Salad/Gimm1ck are ever a team.

I would like more info on this. You've already posted your list and then came up with a contradiction, I mean, at the end of my post I've posted what everyone can read in the Mod posts, so don't take my request as FoS. I'm genuinely curious of how you associate me to Salad. What puts me in this light to you?

What changed your read on Salad between days?

@Chii, I’m wondering what made my posts chill!town to chill!scum.

I've put you on my first list as Town, however, I've never respected the order. This is something I usually reveal later in-game, but seems like I do have a FoS on me (Aaron), so I should start explaining my game-flow.

First list I've never intended to put real thoughts on it, since D1 is a info-gathering day without any other tools but talking, however, people can argue between them and you start seeing how humans interact with each others. Humans are animals of habit and therefore if someone argues with you or becomes a little more aggro, people are most likely to either trust or target that person. There's no in-between.

Aaron is an example, he's been talkative, shared thoughts and his effect on people was positive, so people trust him, however, I can also say Salad-Gimm1ck is an example. Gimm1ck became pretty pushy against Salad and so Salad voted against him. These are humans habits.

Anyway, I get way too much into details.

TL;DL

- You were never on my Town list as highly trusted, I even called you "my most neutral read" in #280:

[...]

IMO,

Salad is the most neutral read I have

, therefore I gave him towncred. His plays are literally just... I haven't seen him getting too involved and that either because he doesn't want much attention on him (assuming he is PR, anyone can be at this point, we still haven't pushed someone to claim), or he's taking part of this game out of respect (assuming he's just a Vanilla Town with no other power, but to help us solve the puzzle).

I could've also assumed he's scum

, however, I trust that a scum will select a target to try and push for a lynch. A specific target, someone that can be read as a big influence for Town...

[...]

Now you've pushed Gimm1ck, which is somehow strange to me. It was sudden, but you did mention about his own contradiction on Dong's mislynch, however, instead of questioning and pushing him to explain stuff, you voted on sight. That's off to me, IMO Town should always try and push their scumreads to say something wrong and then vote. Once you push someone and they say something wrong, that's when you can support your arguments and start a conflict, I would say, or what is it called here, a wagon.

As I said earlier, you were never highly trusted, Salad. I've also stated during D1 that I want people that know each other in-game because I can abuse that and such a coincidence that I've put you on the list of people that looks like they've played together before (Dong, Salad, Teacher which I've stated in #152) and so of course that I've put all three of you as not-scums. I wanted you to show me how much can you read each other and make my job easier here.

Just share your thoughts on who you think is scum as they come to you, and

don't be afraid to change your mind

.

Technically, I've never actually changed my mind. This reasoning started since #131 and has developed as time passed and conversations were taking place. I just gathered more info during this time to back-up my actions.

Now that I've explained my game-flow and reasoning behind my plays, I would like y'all to share feedback, especially you, Aaron. Let me know why am I associated to Salad.

[Chibiie]

I hope my posts are aesthetically pleasing to y'all. I am enjoying doing this a lot.

[Chibiie]

[...]

1) To confuse us. Pretty much everyone expressed some concerns against him during the last day phase, so keeping him alive and having the town pressure and possibly mislynch him would be the optimal choice, but sometimes scum will make sub-optimal choices for the purpose of throwing us off. This seems unlikely to happen, especially in a Newbie game.

2) Scum thought he was PR. PR's tend to play a little bit scummy/low-profile so that scum won't kill them, but not too scummy that they'll get mislynched. This seems the more likely scenario to me since it's important for scum to PR hunt and get rid of any advantage that the town has.

This is the kind of kill I see coming from someone who's experienced with mafia and/or someone who's being coached by an experienced player. I think at least one of our remaining SE (Salad/teacher) players is scum.

[...]

I will leave both of these here.

I think the likely explanation for GeorgeBailey's death was that scum thought he was a PR.

It is not FoS. It is info that I use to back-up my analyses.

I'm actually curious because you're also the one who said that this NK was something an SE would do to throw Town off, yet now you say that it is likely that George was read as PR.

To continue this assumption, I would like to say that the contradiction was in one post only actually.
Re-reading these two posts I can see that the contradiction took place in #351 only. I really doubt and SE would have read George as PR, however coming up with this analysis (and I don't wanna be looked at like the black sheep of this game) really lowers you down on my list.

Will I sound like trash? I might be, but I do have a feeling that this might've been your NK and was planned since D1 once George started defending Dong. That was the perfect setup for a scum 200 IQ blackmail NK.

Can I be wrong? Of course. Is this actually an FoS if I think about it? Could be, actually.

Anyway

, will count you as neutral for now, Aaron.

Any obvtown can flip scum by the end of a game.

[Chibiie]

Will reply soon.
I see strange behavior changes and confusing plays.

[Chibiie]

Nope, did not open like that in 1952.
[...]

This will be a long and interesting post, I'm getting kind of excited with the flow of the game. The real puzzle-solving begins now.

I've took the time to read through your ISO and start connecting the dots for our plays. You'll be pretty surprised by the end of this long post. First, I will open by saying that I can now clearly understand who played before together and that is you, teacher, Dong and Salad. You and all SEs played together, that puts us in a funny situation.

I've added my thoughts under your answers:

Sure I'll bite at the questions. Been working on schoolwork all day today so haven't been around much.

I’m hating the slowness of the game. I’ve got like 2 reads out of rand and we are a couple days in. Let’s try some getting to know you questions to hopefully start things off into the week. All slots kindly answer.

1. What is your experience at Mafia

A handful of games on MafiaScum. A few irl games of Ultimate Werewolf here and there.

I can tell, you do have a solid grasp of Mafia and social deduction in general.

2. How do you play as town

I usually observe, ask questions, pressure those I find scummy and generally obvtown it up.

I have yet to roll a PR

so no clue how I'd play if I did. Probably try to be less obvtown if I was a PR.

That was your claim right there. Since you do have some experience on this platform, I could call that a safe post, as a new player on this platform, I will start my next game by somehow obvtowning it up like that too.

3. How do you play as scum

If my only scum game on here is any indication, badly. But seriously

I try to emulate my town playstyle.

Everyone does to a certain extent, scums do have to do additional stuff in order to win, soft pushes and so on.

4. What do you think gives away a player as scum or town

Scum will tend to push an agenda more than town will since scum already knows everyone's alignment. They'll also appeal to the crowd by posting things that appear townie on the surface, but don't fit the game state or just aren't very helpful. Town players will question and observe and more than likely change their reads often.

Townies in general should also be less afraid of how they look and more focused on either hunting scum.

That's what I do, I'm probably too focused on solving the game that I don't mind your vote on me. I'll keep going strong with my analyses and support them and like I said in D1, when standing by my no-lynch newb!play (I admit, now that I'm learning about this platform, I'll go for D1-lynches), even if I'll be targeted, my posts and theories will help Townies win.

5. Time zone/standard posting times

EST. I'm in university and work part time so whenever I have free time really.

Yeah distancing is a pretty common scum tactic but I think it's pretty unlikely that scum would be distancing from each other on Day 1, especially in a Newbie game.

Yep, I get the logic behind the tactic, however, I don't see myself and Salad doing this. I will make time to come back with a "briefing" post on my own ISO and chain my posts in order to present my logic so far and who I think scum might be.

Alright so looking through Saladman's meta, so far it does seem pretty consistent with town!Salad. I think my vote is better placed here honestly.

VOTE: Dongempire

Really did not like their case against teacher. teacher wasn't responding to the fact that he was at L-1, he was responding to Spartan when he seemed to imply that he was okay with hammering on page 2 and I think teacher's response is fine because of that. Not necessarily saying it's townie, but it's definitely not scummy.

So you did town!Salad too back in D1, right? Indeed, you first voted him for his #54 and mislynch concerns, but you did later read his meta as consistent and town!Salad. I've noticed you didn't post a list D1, only recently you did.
This is getting interesting, seems like I am not the only one that has changed his mind.

Never seen him scum.

117 is gross af.

I’m in school so pretty limited

It stinks right? or am I just missing some sort of meta where he acts all random looking for a lynch.

My issue with you putting things down to his townmeta especially now I know youve not seen his scum meta is what if they both look the same, what if this is scumsalad?

I think Salad mentioned earlier that he's never rolled scum before so he doesn't really have a scum meta. I could see scum Salad playing to his meta of being random and lynchbaity and us shrugging it off as just "that's his meta"

This is actually where I started planning my list for #204. I've been watching Yoda too tbh, I've mentioned that as well with my second list. Yoda was on my #204 list as a bottom Neutral for a while, now I've moved him to Scum :)

Probably gonna go back and reread some stuff when I get a chance

That's what I'm doing too, buddy. Eats a lot of time though.

[...]
George's hop on feels scummiest to me right now. Yoda is still a hard null for me, but his vote on Dong also feels pretty sheepy. Salad's is okay because it seems like he had a purpose for putting Dong at L-1 (trying to increase their activity level), but I'm still having a hard time reading that slot. teacher is probably the towniest person on the wagon right now, and of course I'm obviously town :D

So even though the votes in the last page are troubling, this is fine if we get a town flip. And if Dong flips scum, then that's even better because we can look at who was defending them/trying to bus them at the end of the day.

Well, I think that George's hop was scum too... Yoda jumping on that wagon too? Yep, fishy.
Salad had a reason, yes, teacher had one too after being pushed in RVS, however, what was your reason?
I'm not really sure how people read obvtown on this platform... I don't see very solid reasoning behind your jump, was it due to teacher being pushed in RVS? Were you backing up town!Salad's attempt to increase Dong's activity? It was D1, not much info, lynch was needed, I'm not going to assume this was scummy. It was a standard D1-lynch process.

Well thanks for narrowing down my scum pool I guess. I was going to push George today because he was playing pretty scummy.

I know, right? Scum should've known that he was going to be pushed too and get a different target in order to clean Townies easier for D2/N2. NK was a throw off. Salad's randomness? Yoda's lurking? In my own ISO "briefing" post that I want to post before we lynch, I will present my thoughts on who's scum.

I think Salad/Chiibie could be the team. Salad/Yoda is also possible.

I don't think Salad/Gimm1ck are ever a team.

I would like more info on this. You've already posted your list and then came up with a contradiction, I mean, at the end of my post I've posted what everyone can read in the Mod posts, so don't take my request as FoS. I'm genuinely curious of how you associate me to Salad. What puts me in this light to you?

Yeah I can expand.

Basically it's the sudden shift in your read on Salad. I read 280 as you were townreading Salad, and even if the read was neutral at that point, the sudden shift just feels unnatural to me. Seems like you were trying to distance from him on Day 1 and now you have an opportunity on Day 2 to go with the crowd that's scumreading him. Not 100% sure if Chiibie would bus him that quickly into the day though, so for now Chiibie/Salad team is just a theory.

Funny that this idea of me changing my mind has been pushed by someone who voted Salad in the beginning of D2, when earlier in D1 he was calling him town!Salad, right? So am I the only one changing his mind? Your change was faster and more sudden than mine.

Such a plot-twist of behavior

To continue this assumption, I would like to say that the contradiction was in one post only actually.
Re-reading these two posts I can see that the contradiction took place in #351 only. I really doubt and SE would have read George as PR, however coming up with this analysis (and I don't wanna be looked at like the black sheep of this game) really lowers you down on my list.

Will I sound like trash? I might be, but I do have a feeling that this might've been your NK and was planned since D1 once George started defending Dong. That was the perfect setup for a scum 200 IQ blackmail NK.

Can I be wrong? Of course. Is this actually an FoS if I think about it? Could be, actually.

Anyway

, will count you as neutral for now, Aaron.

Any obvtown can flip scum by the end of a game.

351 was not a contradiction, just me thinking about possible theories as to why scum went for George.

I don't like playing the whole "well I'd do this as scum" card because that gets very WIFOM-y, but I will say one beneficial move for scum here in my eyes is to keep George alive and kill one of the more active players so that this already slow-paced game becomes even more slow paced, which is what's starting to make me think that one of the more active players is potentially scum.

You brought up the possibility of one of the more obv-town players pulling the wool over our eyes. I think teacher is a good candidate in this case and ever since the day start I've been reconsidering my read on him. Not really sure why this is the case and it's mostly a gut feeling. Gonna reread that game I played with him (1954) and see what I can make of it.

I admit I might've rushed through the post and read it wrong. Like I mentioned in my previous post #385:

It is still possible, I'll still count it.
Is this

probability

or

possibility

?

I'm glad I took the time to re-read your ISO as I have completely forgotten what happened during D1. I believe I have a progressive list and no "sudden" changes... I will reinforce that Salad was put as Town in my first list, however, I did call him my most neutral read. It was not a

sudden change of mind

, but a progressive one, logically speaking. What's written down may not be 100% relevant to what's in my head.

teacher is by far the towniest of the two, but I don't want to rule him out completely. I've learned that even the most obvtown players can still turn out to be scum and according to teacher, he obvtowns it up as either alignment.

He was also the driving force behind the Dong lynch yesterday, which does concern me a bit.

However, Salad is easily the scummier looking of the two. For now...

VOTE: Salad

You joined that driving force and from my point of view, that because you found players that could be easier lynch targets. You could obvtown it up, right? Even if it was D1 and it's all that RVS and D1-lynching stuff, I believe Salad and teacher had more solid reasons to vote Dong in D1.

I am not ruling them out, I will take the time to re-read ISOs and add comments for everyone.

I haven't head Spartan's point of view on all this what's happening right now, I would really love if that could be a thing :)

[Chibiie]

I don't like playing the whole "well I'd do this as scum" card because that gets very WIFOM-y, but I will say one beneficial move for scum here in my eyes is to keep George alive and kill one of the more active players so that this already slow-paced game becomes even more slow paced,

which is what's starting to make me think that one of the more active players is potentially scum.

I would like to ask a question, now that I think about it.
Could you define "active player" to me?

If you talk posts-count, I'm not really an active player.
If you talk

involvement

, you have all the rights to accuse me of being potentially scum, but my card still flips green.

I have a dumb feeling that this might actually be a townie-townie clash and scums are excited about this, but calling that I had a

sudden change of mind

scummy, when you were also the one who said the following:

Sure I'll bite at the questions. Been working on schoolwork all day today so haven't been around much.

[...]
4. What do you think gives away a player as scum or town

Scum will tend to push an agenda more than town will since scum already knows everyone's alignment. They'll also appeal to the crowd by posting things that appear townie on the surface, but don't fit the game state or just aren't very helpful.

Town players will question and observe and

more than likely change their reads often

. Townies in general should also be less afraid of how they look and more focused on either hunting scum.

[...]

Are we both Townies then?

Reading your slot is hard, I admit that, but I am very happy with this platform's Mafia experience.

I didn't expect a forum long-play Mafia to be this much fun and also brain-straining.

[Chibiie]

I hope my posts are aesthetically pleasing to y'all. I am enjoying doing this a lot.

Im concerned that the level of your involvement, and level of skill, has changed so much across days. Why did you hold this back D1?

Are you questioning my game involvement and deduction skill or my posts aesthetics skill?
If you question my posts aesthetics skill, then I am a Graphics Designer. I love pixels. Image, text, renders, drawing, aesthetics in general.

If you question my level of involvement and all this sudden "OMG, Chibiie's a detective" or such, then that's because I play a lot of social deduction games and have also mentioned that I'm the

connect-the-dots type of player

in my D1 posts. I gradually become more and more involved because you can gather information out of every post.

Players are aware that here, if you post something, there's no

edit button

. Everyone is careful with that they say, but I'm sincerely not. I just think all this while writing. I do have multiple tabs open and research as I prepare these posts to be launched in-game. This is my nature. I blame it on my astral sign. (Earth sign - Virgo - OCD / Perfectionist / Careful with details / Very in-depth research / Good observer / Strong logic / Rational person)

That's about me :)

[Chibiie]

Alright come on now.

Just because I'm on V/LA doesn't mean everyone else can't post either.

I think everyone's looking forward to the continuation of our clash.

I'm personally waiting on Spartan's update on his thoughts and list.

[Chibiie]

Posted from phone:

@Spartan

, you answered my questions, which puts you on a solid Townread on my list.
I think my posts are pretty clear, is just that I add a lot of irrelevant info to the actual game, but relevant to the Mafia game overall. It's my play style. Expect this from happening in future games too. I'm live-streaming my thoughts on puzzle-solving.

@teacher

, I don't really understand how my play style changed, it's been like this since D1, but as I said, I had no info to work around. Now that there's D1 + N1 green flips, I can connect dots. I don't really like being put in this "coached" area.

I was just about to claim my intention to hammer in within the next 10 hours (I really don't want to reread a slot), but Gimm1ck just claimed tracker. While this may be true, I'm curious if anyone else counter-claims that. Tracking George and unfortunately he died, could be a lie.

In the meantime, I will put my vote here:
VOTE: Yoda

[Chibiie]

@Salad

, I do believe that my "sudden change of mind" is the only reason for why Aaron voted me. If is not, then I believe he doesn't really like my logic? I'm not sure if there is another reason besides that, I cannot seem to find in his posts.

I would like to know better the reasoning of my voters.

Spoiler: Updates list

Town:

Spartan
teacher

- somehow null-ish town

Neutral:

Aaron - his push doesn't really makes me turn against him, I don't even feel like defending myself in this situation, yet he's the one who started this "coached" thing and associated me with Salad. My clash with him could actually be pointless, but will not drop this and will sort this slot as the game progresses towards D3.

Gimm1ck - if nobody counter-claims, he straight-up Town 'til the rest of the game.

Scum:

Salad
Yoda

[Chibiie]

@Aaron

, I doubt you read my posts because they're long, but I'm not the one who placed a vote on you. Never associated you with someone and ultimately never pushed you. I presented my logic, you, yourself said that changing reads is a towny trait yet you scum read me for scumreading Salad?

I don't see the logic. You're contradicting yourself.

[Chibiie]

I'm glad I took the time to re-read your ISO as I have completely forgotten what happened during D1. I believe I have a progressive list and no "sudden" changes... I will reinforce that Salad was put as Town in my first list, however, I did call him my most neutral read. It was not a

sudden change of mind

, but a progressive one, logically speaking. What's written down may not be 100% relevant to what's in my head.

If he's in your town list, then he can't be a neutral read. Also...

I'm pretty god damn sure I said "Salad is my most neutral read, therefore I give him Towncred"... It was D1... You're pushing this idea of me changing my mind when it is so easy to read my ISO and see for yourself that I've never called Salad a solid townread. You're really, really pushy on this and I haven't seen you quoting any of my posts in order to back-up your argument...

You're also completely ignoring this:

[...]
Regarding Salad, I' ve stated my reasoning for unvoting him pretty clear... His play shows relationship to me, I want Salad, teacher and Dong (these 3 seem to know each other) alive so they can talk and read eachother, they'll either end up in the same team or different, right? Having a group of players that already have a grasp of each other's playstyles is a strong weapon for us, who didn't played with them before, because we're new and they need time to adjust with our amounts of posts, the level of interest in conversation and strategies overall (I am more of a logical, connect-the-dots type of player, will use any little information, even the order of ideas in one's post, even yours, I take notice of player's order in your post), but they can read each other to a certain level based on previous games... I want to have that, as a new player here, I will honestly abuse this.

What's written down may not be 100% relevant to what's in my head.

?????

Explain what you mean by this?

My wording was bad, English is not my native language. I meant to say

accurate

, not

relevant

.
I am a human being, I might rush things due to real-life events. I do my best to post as often so I won't get replaced. I also do my best to read and understand everything before I post, but sometimes, my mind is a mess.

Let's clear my #296 out, Aaron -.-

Actually, I could call Salad as being the netural and passive one, but at the same time, I doubt his reasoning for that is being scum.
I stand by my #280 regarding Salad.

This was the continuation to my answer for Gimm1ck's #292. My answer was in #295:

Time to explain something about what I look for when I am scum hunting;
Scum generally want to avoid being lynched day one and individually do not want attention on themselves (which is why pressure and rvs swinging is very beneficial to give reads). Scum want to appear nonchalant for the majority of day one to avoid being lynched, giving reactions to town, or making any hint towards their partner(s).

A side affect from this is that scum tend to not make any extremely polarizing reads in fear of either being caught on lackluster logic and counterwagoned onto, or being OMGUSsed /FOSed due to their reads. That leads them to play somewhat passively and attempt to maintain a neutral posture on wagons.

For D1, I believe this applies for everyone. Nobody wants to get lynched D1, regardless of alignment, be it scum or town, however, I don't really agree on your statement "That leads them to play somewhat passively and attempt to maintain a neutral posture on wagons."... Scums know each other, they shouldn't be scared to push someone, their goal is to push town to mislynch and kill at night, but make it in a way that won't backfire on them...

In the same time, it depends on players and how they believe they can win and however they plan their moves.
Anyway, I just wanted to point that out because walking through the pages of the game, you can see that at some point everyone was pointing fingers at someone for a reason, nobody was passive. Your statement is real, but in this game... You could call me the passive one for refusing a D1-lynch, however, I do have someone I would like to lynch too due to my reads and I've already mentioned that in #204 and later explained more in-depth in #280, ultimately (and hopefully) completely cleared things out in #290.

I agree that scums could play passive, but in this game, nobody was passive.

Will you completely ignore these?
I still believe that your argument is not valid.

[Chibiie]

@Chiibie

Even if the wording was off, you just admitted to giving us an inaccurate depiction on what you're really thinking, which a townie has no reason to do.

Jesus, I understand this is a long-play forum Mafia, but you're really misunderstanding so many things...
I haven't seen you getting into as many details as I do, but whatever... You're obvtown and already pissing me off enough.

I'll hammer in 7 hours (October 16th, 14:00 UTC +3), right before leaving the office.

[Chibiie]

Intent to Self Hammer

I claim VT, if anyone wants to ask any final questions before my or chibiee’s hammer, feel free.

I'll wait until the time I've mentioned previously (14:00 UTC +3 / 5 hours left) before I hammer.

[Chibiie]

I'll hammer in 7 hours (October 16th, 14:00 UTC +3), right before leaving the office.

I've put the correct time, but I've calculated the wrong hours, 7 should've been 6*
Early shifts kill me :(

[Chibiie]

One hour before I hammer, if anyone has something to say, please do.

[Chibiie]

Can we not get a bit more time to hear from Salad, we do have 30 hours till the end of D2.

I'm ok with more time, sure.
Personally, I would keep my vote on Yoda, but since peeps have the majority on Salad, I don't want to stall the game too much.

It's down to Aaron and Salad... Salad wants to self-hammer and Aaron said he will hammer once he wakes up.

[Chibiie]

Welcome to page 20, boys.

[Chibiie]

I mean, if you guys want to ask me questions, now’s the time, I guess.

I did, why do you want to self hammer yourself if you are vt?

Reverse psychology? *thinking emoji*

[Chibiie]

I mean, if you guys want to ask me questions, now’s the time, I guess.

Just in case somebody else hammers, could you please do a quick rundown of your reads and your reasoning?

[Chibiie]

EBWOP: The reasoning -- avoid protective candidates, and seeing friendly neighbor possible claims -- suggests to me that we are in Row B.

Right now I am actually town reading Teacher a lot less than I have currently. What I am personally feeling is that he has some townie contributions earlier on in the day, but this one comment really puts me off, especially with my claim - especially considering that if scum are in row b, they have a rolecop; they then know they are in b3. This leads me to believe that teacher is either scum or another town power role.

Given the knowledge that I am tracker I am likely going to be night killed (or RBed in the case of row a). Jailkeeper should attempt to play as a roleblocker in this case.

Ok, I might have Mafia experience, but I do have a question about this platform, to be more precise, setups...
Where is that B3 coming from? We only have one PR claim and two VT flips...

If anyone could explain me how people read setups, please do, because all I know is that we are in column B based on teachers post and then your claim. Where did you read someone as Doc? Or are you informed about being healed even when not NK target?

Gimm1ck, is either I am stupid and can't read slots properly or you just gave away 2nd PR and scums will try hard to read who's Doc...
I should read all setups and role PMs :)

[Chibiie]

I don't even know where we at anymore...
Let's talk business now, is anyone here going to hammer Salad?
I start reconsidering my reads now with Gimm1ck's latest activity

Chat or lynch?

[Chibiie]

Didn't he said "possible friendly neighbor claim" right there?
Imma go to sleep and be up in 6 hours, but if you guys could elaborate on this topic, I'll join once I'm in my office in the morning.

[Chibiie]

That makes sense, but will get in further details tomorrow morning.

Off-topic: Double "i" is second in my name :)

[Chibiie]

VOTE: Saladman

Let's see how this flips.

Oh damn, ok.
Welcome to page 21, where a sudden hammer has been dropped.

[Chibiie]

I think that the Aaron/Chibiie conflict is more of a town v town situation. I don't think that Chibiie's position change was too unnatural.

If you think chibiie and aaron are both town, do you think Gimm1ck is lying on his tracker claim, otherwise who do you think are the two people in the scum team?

With Gimm1ck's claim, I guess that my scum team would be Salad/teacher. This is all based on what I thought would have happened Night 1. I'm pretty sure that Salad is scum.

I have a bad feeling about this. Will elaborate with the following quotes.

EBWOP: The reasoning -- avoid protective candidates, and seeing friendly neighbor possible claims -- suggests to me that we are in Row B.

Right now I am actually town reading Teacher a lot less than I have currently. What I am personally feeling is that he has some townie contributions earlier on in the day, but this one comment really puts me off, especially with my claim - especially considering that if scum are in row b, they have a rolecop; they then know they are in b3. This leads me to believe that teacher is either scum or another town power role.

Given the knowledge that I am tracker I am likely going to be night killed (or RBed in the case of row a). Jailkeeper should attempt to play as a roleblocker in this case.

[...]

Where is that B3 coming from? We only have one PR claim and two VT flips...

[...]

Gimm1ck, is either I am stupid and can't read slots properly or you just gave away 2nd PR and scums will try hard to read who's Doc...

[...]

I am speculating given the only

two

plausible setups, which are Row2a, Row1b, row3b. These are my reads given the current situation with teacher.

Here's my point of view on this: In your first post you seem pretty confident on that Row3B "speculation", which is what makes me think either or these: Doc healed you N1 (assuming that your PR claim is real, then of course that you know the current setup) / You're scum and actually the rolecop himself and got a jackpot invest N1. In the second post you say that you're speculating, claim

two

possible setups, but count

three

which I shouldn't even mention because it could've been just a little mistake while posting, but could also be due to little panic. I might just overthink this.

[...]

Chibie is kind of sheeting you, my strongest tr, and because I can’t pair saladman otherwise (possibly yoda). I also really don’t like the push on you - could be chainsaw

(I found on Wiki the term "Chainsaw Defense", I believe this is what this term stands for?)

in addition to omgus.

I’m in class but a little around. What didn’t you like?

Also just realized I never answered this.

It was mostly the Chiibie vote I didn't like. If me vs. Chiibie is town vs. town, then this could be an attempt to pocket me and push a mislynch on Chiibie.

(FeelsBadMan my name misspelled)

PEDIT: Yeah but that ended up being false with George flipping vt. The fact that teacher pointed it out actually makes me more suspicious of him.

This actually makes a lot of sense. I didn't want to defend against any votes unless I was put in a L-1 situation, because I wanted to see how many peeps will jump on Aaron's wagon against me and I was actually expecting both Spartan and teacher to hop on, but teacher's jump (I even questioned it twice) felt unnatural and I don't really know how "pocketing" works since I've never used that tactic (I understand the general idea of it, but I mainly try to solo solve game), but I assumed that he was hugging you a little too much and never doubting you at all. AT ALL.

Tbh, I think the real PR isn’t cc’ing because they might get NKed. AFAIK, Gimm1ck has posted nothing hinting at a PR before his claim and IMO the claim was a way to find scum’s next target.

I tend to believe this. Especially now with Gimm1ck's "speculations".
Aaron might leash at me again, but right now, I'm about to change my reads again and call, with ~70% certainty, that Salad will flip green. He doesn't seem to look bothered by this hammer. Inspires to me that he's confident about the win and I don't know, statistically speaking, what are the odds of scums winning if they end up in a 4/1 situation D3, but I doubt scum would not try to defend in this situation or at least fake claim as an attempt at survival.

There are 3 possible scum teams from my point of view: Gimm1ck/Yoda, Yoda/teacher, teacher/Gimm1ck
2 out of these 3 MUST be scum.

Unless Salad flips red and I overthink too much, but these are probably my last reads of the game. Aaron & Spartan MUST be Townies. I just need to sort out who's the last Townie out of the 3 potential scums. (assuming Salad flips green)

[Chibiie]

This also confirms Chiibiie as town (no reason for teacher to role cop or roleblock their partner).

Definitely not roleblocked.

PEDIT: Can you even cc any PR anymore if you visit two players while tracked?

VOTE: teacher

[Chibiie]

VOTE: teacher

That's self-hammer, does this mean day already ends? o_O

[Chibiie]

Also, I'm very sorry for not calling L-1, this is my first game here and actually the first vote I've placed to L-1.
@Mod, forgive me please :(

[Chibiie]

I was actually expecting to die, I thought I cover 2nd PR pretty well and get targeted instead. I also was pretty sure that Yoda is last scum and Aaron was PR because of the hammer on Salad, which was dropped quickly after I asked Gimm1ck if he was doc'ed N1.

Gimm1ck, I know Yoda was your neutral read, but please tell me that you've tracked Aaron and not Yoda or me.

I'm on the phone and can't really bring quotes and prove my analysis, but don't you think is strange how all of Aaron's neutral / scummy reads (also shading teacher, but not pushing him) were townies and how he backed out of my clash with him after I started using his ISO against himself? He seen me as a late game threat and tried to get rid of me by lynch. Funny how teacher backed him up with a vote against me without much explanation, probably after sharing thoughts in their private chat.

My question is: Why wasn't I killed during night if I was a threat to scums? Is this the best possible framing outcome? Become obvtown and then let Chibiie live last so you can easily win in LyLo?

I even pointed out stuff about Aaron before that looked sketchy, but he was "obvtown" and people won't trust a new player...

Is all down to you Gimm1ck. Aaron will definitely vote me and I will vote him. You're the tracker, all I hope is that, out of curiosity, you tracked Aaron.

[Chibiie]

VOTE: AaronFrost

I will be back in a few hours, Gimm1ck, take your time to go through both our ISOs and see who you trust more. That only if you didn't tracked Aaron instead and then boom, let's get this win.

Talk to y'all later.

[Chibiie]

Aaron's at

L-1

.

[Chibiie]

I don't have access to a PC until Tuesday and to be honest I won't even bother to try quoting here. The whole D2 clash between me and Aaron should give you enough evidence on Aaron/teacher plays...

All who were pushed, were pushed by these two. Once I refused to follow their lead, they voted on me. Once spartan townread me, they got rid of him and now, they took Yoda away who was the last to accept my analyses.

Even Salad, who I doubted and accepted to lynch townread me before being hammered by Aaron, when Spartan asked for more time and I took back my intent for hammering. Then Aaron hammered in order to get rid of Spartan who was my biggest townread.

It's funny how all these are now connected dot-to-dot.
Gimm1ck, down to you, I will be back only to celebrate our win.

[Chibiie]

"[...] honestly feels like the kind of play teacher would make [...]"

Is not the first time he made this remark throughout this game.

Past games should not be assimilated to the current one, which makes me think you did have something to do with teacher this whole game.

[Chibiie]

I believe the sole reason for why you weren't killed, Gimm1ck, is because you didn't townread me completely like the others.

[Chibiie]

Gimm1ck, down to you, I will be back only to celebrate our win.

Someone got cocky all of a sudden...

Not cocky, but really, take the time to read your own ISO. Also, as I said, I'm on the phone, it'll take me the whole day to make a post and explain everything, that's why it's easier to re-read our D2 clash which ended in like 3 pages.

Also, the fact that even after our clash, you asking peeps about our clash and people calling it town v town, that's probably when you thought it'll be the perfect outcome to frame me.

I hope this game will be the perfect example of obvtown flipping red :)
And I'm not saying your pushes were scum completely, you played a solid Townie. Just like you said you would while answering teacher's questions. Also good emulation of your townie playstyle.

I had doubts about you since N1 NKA started and teacher also, but couldn't push an obvtown that early, that would've get me lynched, so I'm actually glad of this outcome, because peeps trusted you and therefore everyone who died was Town. teacher's wagon for Dong's lynch D1? George's death N1, the Salad's push in D2 right off the bat without a proper explanation? Gimm1ck and Spartan caught my attention since D2 and had proper town vibes.

The only reason for not scumreading you is because I would've went against majority and as I noticed Yoda was not involved and Spartan was mostly busy and never getting into many details, it was left for me to keep a low-profile and back-up Gimm1ck while keeping you a townread in order to prevent myself from being lynched.

This is intense end game :)
I doubt Gimm1ck would've even considered waiting if there was someone else instead of me.

If Yoda was alive, he would've not trusted his PR claim (you took advantage of him being Gimm1ck's neutral read and I should've pointed that out yesterday but I honestly thought Yoda was scum too and Aaron was my neutral read since early D2)
If Spartan would've been alive he was a conditional town, so Gimm1ck would've hammered him already.

My question is, how did you misplay and let me live in Lylo?
This was your mistake. I was your clash, thing is, I had solid reasoning to argue with you after being pushed for a reason like "oh you changed your mind". Ofc I changed my mind, I'm not scum, I don't have all info needed to prepare killing order, I have to solve the game with no info.

I wanna hear your defense, Aaron.

@Gimm1ck

trust me and re-read his ISO and order of events. Also our clash out of which he backed off calling that a OMGUS reason on my side. That was panic for me being right against him.

//OFF TOPIC: This post took me 30 minutes and is only text, imagine trying to post quotes and highlighting all the stuff.

[Chibiie]

I phrased the earlier post so badly smh

[Chibiie]

Even Salad, who I doubted and accepted to lynch townread me before being hammered by Aaron, when Spartan asked for more time and I took back my intent for hammering. Then Aaron hammered in order to get rid of Spartan who was my biggest townread.

I had stated my intent to hammer previously. We had less than a day on the deadline when I hammered which is plenty of time as far as I'm concerned. He wanted to hear from Salad and he did.

Gimm1ck hasn't been killed because we have a doc and scum was afraid that the doc would be on Gimm1ck so they went for Spartan. Then it was between me/Yoda for who the last pr was. You guessed right but you probably would've been better off killing me honestly since you could easily win a 1v1 against Yoda. I guess you just enjoy our interactions too much ;)

Wow, remember before hammering, plenty of time left, I said "imma go to sleep and get into more details in the morning?". Well I didn't get the chance to have a proper talk. You hammered, there was a soft conf between Gimm1ck and Salad, which made me change my mind, but was too late... (I wasn't part of the vote against Salad and it means nothing because I was pro lynching him, but I wanted the most info I could've possibly get)

You rushed it. That was your second mistake.

[Chibiie]

Another quick thing... it just clicked, Aaron, you're smarter than that, yet you just said something stupid, out of your character.
So you took advantage of Gimm1ck's neutral read on Yoda and took him out, now having a 1v1 with me. Reason is simple:

You knew Gimm1ck would've tracked his neutral read and killing me in order to cc Yoda would've been impossible since Yoda would've visited Gimm1ck, both still alive, yet I would've been dead...

This was your only option for a win. You trapped yourself in this situation LOL

[Chibiie]

Another quick thing... it just clicked, Aaron, you're smarter than that, yet you just said something stupid, out of your character.
So you took advantage of Gimm1ck's neutral read on Yoda and took him out, now having a 1v1 with me. Reason is simple:

You knew Gimm1ck would've tracked his neutral read and killing me in order to cc Yoda would've been impossible since Yoda would've visited Gimm1ck, both still alive, yet I would've been dead...

This was your only option for a win. You trapped yourself in this situation LOL

How am I supposed to know what Gimm1ck is gonna do? Smart move would've been to no kill actually then that eliminates any chance that the tracker gets a result on you. This would work out even better with gimmick getting the result he did (Yoda visited him) because then scum can claim doc and claim they protected gimmick. Yoda is lynched then boom easy win.

That would've put you in MyLo... why am I even breaking down your scum actions?
If MyLo, guess who would've been lynched? Exactly, Yoda and whoever cc'ed doc then would've been D5 lynch... I have no reason to cc PR, I was actually trying to cover 2nd PR and get targeted during night so I they both survive as long as possible. Was hoping that you were PR because we were set perfectly for a win, but well, not all stories have happy endings.

Can we get over this already? Check your interaction with teacher in #434 where you ask if my push was OMGUS, that's where our clash pretty much ended due to you backing down.

Also, when was teacher ever obvtown? He was trusted, but I don't think we had 2 obvtowns in this game, you were the only one with that status.

Last point, when replying to my posts, please answer to proper segments that are connected and don't break one idea into multiple sentences. That's misleading and total scum.

[Chibiie]

But thing is, cause I forgot to mention, is that MyLo, we would agree most likely to not lynch and let Gimm1ck track someone (ofc, without calling the target beforehand)... scum must NK, MyLo can go forever if scum doesn't kill. MyLo is full Town advantage, you didn't want that.

[Chibiie]

I miscalculated that D5 speculation, now that I think about it, the only thing we would've done if MyLo is no lynch and let you pick a target.
A sacrifice for the win... same outcome anyway. You literally trapped yourself in this situation omg I shouldn't laugh.

[Chibiie]

Here is the thing...
Gimm1ck votes, game ends.

I don't see much logic in your posts, just taking what I say and bending it.
That doesn't look like you're defending yourself too much... You don't really have what to defend with, but ok. I'll accept that you've tried.

In the meantime, work on accepting defeats, Mr. Goon.

[Chibiie]

Homework for Chibiie - why do you think teacher believed he was going to be tracked over Aaron, even when I stated I townread Aaron over teacher? Do you think teacher would take that risk?

I don't know what teacher's plan was, I just speculate, however, fact doesn't change that everyone was talking about how scums keep distance from one another and it is known to be a common tactic, everyone analyzed that, but these two kept close in early game and gradually put distance.

I read your question multiple times, but didn't you just answered it yourself?
You did claim PR, nobody cc, you've also stated that you townread teacher a lot less in D2...

I would've thought the same tbh, but I personally wouldn't have taken that risk. I don't have teacher's experience on this platform and this might've been a winning trick from his past games. He will let us know his thought process after the game is over (assuming that dead players can post after game ends).

In the meantime, Aaron + teacher throughout the game have been gradually distancing from each other, more one-sided to be honest (Aaron showing more that he's distancing from teacher) for voting against me, but have he ever questioned teacher's vote on you, Gimm1ck, in D2? Nope. Also once you claimed tracker, that's when Aaron started pushing me... So his vote in D2 was Salad>Gimm1ck>Chibiie>Salad [hammer].

I will also stress that I backed my hammer intent and also said that I will get into more details before we hammer Salad, but I wasn't given a chance by Aaron, which is strange behavior for a Town.

Anyway, if there is any other question, ask away.

[Chibiie]

My prediction* :)
teacher wanted me to target Aaron

[Chibiie]

GGs everyone, it was a pleasure playing with you all!
Let's meet in future games.

Aaron, great opponent :)

[Chibiie]

The thing is, it was masterminded since D2, but I was 100% sure that Spartan is 2nd PR, that's why we NK'ed him.

teacher's spontaneous decision to rolecop me actually threw me off too, because I originally wanted to out 2nd PR and then push Aaron in D4, but overall, teacher was a great guide on this platform and an open, talkative and great teammate to work with, I owe him this win and hope that next time we meet as Townies and get along just the same :)

[Chibiie]

Well, it was nice playing with you all, hope that we meet again.

Aaron, you annoyed me at some point because you are so clever and was such a reliable Townie that I actually thought I'm taking the L.
Gimm1ck, I'm sorry for deceiving you, but I had to :(
teacher, so glad to have worked with you.
Spartan, great logic and a very interrogative Townie playstyle, I like it.
Yoda, I'm not sure if it was intentional, but you kept a nice low-profile as a Doc, I had not a single PR read on you.
Salad, such a lynchbait lol, let's meet again
George / Dong :) D1 only I don't have any grip of your playstyles, but nice playing with both of you!

Thank you very much, Plotinus, for providing interesting articles and for modding the game :) I've actually read the articles while slacking in the office while drinking my coffee in the mornings!

Sayonara!

PEDIT: I didn't go for you because the only way to cc Yoda was if Gimm1ck would've tracked you, which had the lowest chance of happening. If Yoda was tracked and you died, then I would've been the only one left to be accused as scum. If I was tracked, obviously, I am the scum. If you're tracked and die, then I could've cc.

I took the safest option, kill Yoda who was most likely tracked and then push you.

[Chibiie]

I’m definitely nominating Chiibie for the Up and Comer scummy, if only I could write good.

I'mma be honest, I have a better win ratio as scum than Townie in all SD games I played and if you ever played Secret Hitler, I probably have the highest win ratio as Hitler with ~7/10 games won by being nominated chancellor in Heil Zone :)

That's probably my favorite SD game, especially IRL and the one that forged my playstyle the most.
There's also Bank Heist, such a good game to play with friends IRL.

[Chibiie]

teacher, let's be scum again :)

[Chibiie]

Damn, you guys called out Merfin as PR pretty damn early.

How tf...

:)