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I noticed that a few people doubted their townreads on my slot on recent pages
If anyone is interested in my explanation as to why I was confident I was replacing into a town slot, I'd like to deal with insecurity about my slot before I start going after scum.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
I'm holding off on giving my scumread because I think that it is significantly more likely that this game is lost to town not listening to me than me being wrong at this juncture. I do not want scum to be able to react to whoever my scumread is in an informed way immediately. I think that there's a ton of partner info to be gained by seeing how everyone else reacts to my entrance and how outed scum reacts to my entrance.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
Do note I plan on giving no reads besides the person who I think is lock scum and am willing to be BoPed on so that scum can't make an informed nomination decision tomorrow.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
In post 590, Awoo wrote:Yeah, I mean I'm going down the playerlist, and I don't think anyone is NOT OK with titus getting lynched today.
Awoo: voting titus
Joey_: "Honestly I don't really mind lynching either Titus or nEE" 552, but prefers nEE
Norwegian: voting titus
Guiltylion: "I'm on board with scum!Titus" 520
Creature: "I could see Titus and PM being scum together." 500
Suji: Titus at the bottom of his readslist
Like I'm scared that scum is going to realize that they're outed and start calling me scum or some dumb shit and town's going to lap it up since they've already managed to townread him even though he's objectively obviously scum ???
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
I feel like for so many reasons the solve this game is Joey and Menalque
I'm going to actually start casing that now but I think you guys have all been going after the townies who do shiny mislynchable things instead of going after actual scum.
I really don't feel like PK's replace out comes from scum and their interactions with Titus spew them town imo. I don't think GL's iso is likely to be scum but I've considered it. Suji is town by play. I know I'm town. NorwegianEE has a chance of being scum but I think it's more likely that he's town for /reasons/ particularly given that the person who knew them from offsite townread them and it feels too in your face for scum!Titus to be all yeah let's lynch correspondence without considering her partner at the start.
That leaves the slots that you guys are townreading for weird reasons even though they have terrible associatives with each other, Joey has awful Titus associatives, and they really haven't done anything to be TR for?
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
In post 124, Menalque wrote:Kinda doubt that joey and Titus are the same alignment based on their interactions around the bottom of p2 into p3
like there's shit like this all over the thread that reads as cheeky scumbuds but anyway I'm going to organize and present my case.
I am _tremendously_ more certain that Joey is scum but I feel it's advantageous to out both reads because they're both immediately going to turn on my slot if they're scum together and I call out Joey and I need to establish that they are both my scumreads so that they can't use "yeah but BOTH universal townreads scumread you all of a sudden after your replace in" and since your reads are already trash as a collective you might listen to them.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
I actually kinda had this read from the point of PK's replace out and I considered replacing in earlier but I figured if I took PK's slot I'd just get mislynched in the process.
Awoo was transparently town. I hate playing scum. I have an insanely good read record and I wouldn't have taken this slot unless I wasn't locksure on them being town.
If you need me to help show you why my slot is town I can do that separately but my slot's alignment really shouldn't be in question atp.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
Also fundamentally I know Titus's gameplay better than any other player on site does and I know what her SvS associatives look like and do not look like.
This isn't in dispute, I have been known for several years for being able to have an instant 100% read on her slots in any of her games and to quickly suss out her scumbuddies through her iSO.
Joey<->Titus is SvS period.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
And yeah again it's suboptimal for me to out both scumreads because otherwise I might see one in the lynchpool tomorrow trying to townspew themselves
but I have at least 2 confident townreads and as a result we're not losing this game to not good enough reads. we lose this game it's because I couldn't get the lynches to actually land on scum. and outing everything I have is the best chance of convincing town that both your top townreads are scum.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
I'm gonna preempt the fact that I'm talking "to town". I still feel like an outsider in this town and I'm talking to everyone else. I'm competent enough to not make that "slip" as scum.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
In post 45, Joey_ wrote:@Titus&PK: Mutant's read is way too abysmal to come from scum
So starting point would actually be on a Joey post
this kind of post is insanely scumbuddy present indicative and points the most to 1t1s imo but could conceivably be 2s. it's extremely unlikely to be a town post.
when you're talking about TMI reads, particularly with the emoticon at the end, this is like the dictionary definition of a TMI read and the @s and the general structure also heavily point to it being a scumpost
In post 54, Titus wrote:Pk, is Joey scum or derp town? The pain meds are fogging me.
In post 54, Titus wrote:Pk, is Joey scum or derp town? The pain meds are fogging me.
Implying I am "derp" is still shading and discrediting my slot, so why do you scumread mutant's post
then these are hilariously obviously S-S. why is Titus randomly singling out Joey to ask people whether he's derptown or scum on the second page. even not knowing that Titus was scum you should be considering a potential S-S pairing solely off of this post alone and with the flip this should have been the first slot lynched based off of both these interactions. i'll comment on you guys backing off Joey later
ALso the fact that of Titus/Joey iso together first 15 posts 10 of them are interacting with each other heavily points to them being a S-S pairing whereas the way that Titus tries to pocket and townbeardify PK and gets mad that he votes her on day 2 strongly points to that being a T-S interaction.
over many years of mafia play i've seen many scumbuddy interaction patterns and one really common one is the argue about a read and come to the conclusion that it's a t-t disagreement
this reads exactly like many of them that i've seen over that time and just in general isn't great. like, "she's being sloppy so she's town"? you think that's a town post?
What does my vote has to do with my read on both of you?
Also I said I didn't find anyone particularly mefia-y but I am being cautious. I think the case on you is terrible and people are already getting biased towards your answers (Awoo)
In post 173, Joey_ wrote:BTW I will be honest considering mutant is L-1 but IMO his responses are pretty much textbook town as far as I am concerned but YMMV
Awoo is also pretty blatant town
more tmi posting
note the complete absence of any concretely laid out reasons to townread at this point altho they do come up
also note the complete absence of any attempt to change town's trajectory onto mutantdevle. he's willing to brush off all these disagreements with YMMV. that's not town Joey, town joey would defend his townreads. this is really textbook scum who wants to look towny for the defense and GL saying he townreads him for this white knighting ????????? later in the game makes me wonder if they can't be SvS because how do you have that read lol
And honestly his posts are significantly different than his posts in this game. Inb4 I am wrong and I look silly post game but, tone reading is basically one of my strength (and weakness) and mutant post's as scum are unsubstantial, shows no emotions (classic s tell) and he's seen constantly doubting himself & taking stances meant for posturizing (like half reads, non-comital stuff, asking himself questions etc). Also, in his scum posts, its very obvious that he's shading people left and right which is scum agenda.
Mutant is obviously someone who can express himself very well which offer some sort of distance from his writing style and his emotions. In this game tho, the way he showed emotions was when he cranked his own posts when he felt pressure, which he recognized himself. His walls this game imo almost never showed agenda; everytime he outed a read he nuanced it and, irrc, didn't discredit someone for the sake of discrediting (like he did as scum).
Spoiler: Exemples of his scum shades
"are you claiming that your role enables you to unlock people's 2nd role PM, aka their quest PM? Because the quest flavour is what is listen as 2nd for me.
Or are you just being dumb
and actually mean this"
His wording is non-comital he's offering an "out" to whoever hes investigating, which is a read that comes off as non-agressive since being dumb is NA
"Oof varsoon. Are you going to be posting like that all game? Gotta be honest here I but I found your post just a little irritating. My biggest gripe is how you criticise a lot of people for doing NAI stuff and fluff posts yet a large part of your post has a lot of fluffy stuff in it. Like, if your post is THAT large, and you expect people to actually read it, surely you'd keep your own fluff to a minimum?"
His wording is non-comital, trying not to comes off as having a strong read. That's probably his worse post that I skim
"I can't help but feel there are slight undertones of someone who doesn't want to be investigated here. Do millers usually claim early in the game? I don't have much experience with them."
His wording is non-comital and his read is implied. After outing his read, he's admitting mechanic ignorance which decrease the tone of his read yet still shades a slot
Spoiler: His shades/answers this game
"A large majority of people prefer playing as town. So it's statistically likely that you too prefer playing town. Hence, if you're saying you think your alignment is crappy, you're admitting that you are mafia? VOTE: pisskop"
Committal wording, he's not using wording where he's 2nd guessing himself, he's offering no out
"this is a pretty strong conclusion to come to. So I must ask how serious this conclusion is? It seems odd to me that anyone could be so closed-minded this early into the game."
Implied read using words that are NAI and he's offering an out "early game". This fits his sucm posting but the wording is much different IMO. He's not using 2nd guessing wording and close-minded is much less discrediting of someone's character than "dumb" is
"Also, I'd like you to justify your statements that I'm A) Tryharding and B) trying to blend in. Those things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive but they are pretty damn close."
Non-comittal wording, implied read and you can argue he's offering an out. Again this could fit his scum posting but I feel the wording/tone is much different
"Your issue is that you're treating my vote as RVS. I've already explained that it was not an RVS vote. It was a calculated and intentional vote albeit with reasons I didn't genuinely believe - this had the sole intention of generating content. Until that point nobody had said anything meaningful.
Why does making an early vote that uses effort and logic instead of just near randomness make me scum? It shows an element of tryharding, sure. But what about that is inherently scummy?"
Here he is answering a post shading him, but not once did he shade or imply a read toward that person in any way, there's no scum agenda and he's engaging the content of the post. IMO, if he was scum w/ the meta from the linked game, he probably would've sliped a few shading comments in there
"You're saying a lot of things about me here that I agree with yet I still don't understand how you come to the conclusion I am scum. Yes I took issue with the position in the game (in that nothing of substance was being said). Yes I am incredibly self-aware. Yes I have primarily a logical approach to things. And yes I was trying to be useful and proactive. So what I don't understand is why all of those things are bad? Or at the very least, why you think they are bad? I consider all of those traits to be positive, or at the very least neutral, so the only reason I can see that you'd suspect me for displaying them is if you think I'm faking them. Until your most recent posts, it really did not seem like that was what you were accusing me of. So am I right in saying that the reason you are currently scum reading me is because you think my blatant display of those traits is me faking and overselling them?"
Same as above
"I don't see what town motivation there is to purposely stunt my ability to read you."
This is his first kinda shade towards pk after like 2 wall posts and a half which shows town POV because he's saying he's having a hard time reading PK, its coherent with someone who just had a huge conversation and didn't imply a read on them.
Its pretty blatant this is mutant's town game
this is obvious tmi. if you don't see it i don't know how to explain it to you so i'd prefer you just BOP me on this read because it's obviously scum and i'm that confident in it. etc. townies don't talk about "doesn't show agenda", or some of the other phrasings that are used in this post for the townread. this isn't a town read. there's no real read development, this is scum trying to come up with reasons to call someone town.
In post 338, Joey_ wrote:IMO we should flip correspondence, i dont expect any good content coming from them
this isn't the kind of thing town says. "dont expect any good content" says nothing about alignment, it says something about the quality of content and that conflation is very common in scumposting
i do want to point out that I've heavily considered NorwegianEE as scum because both Titus and Chandler go into this day phase going after Correspondence and that makes complete sense if NorwegianEE and Titus are SvS with Joey third but yeah I'm not entirely certain on last scum and much more certain on Joey and etc etc. also there's the fact that shortly after Chandler does vote NorwegianEE instead but yea he ends up deciding that he's town moments later and this is still while correspondence is absent and seems like a free mislynch as an empty slot anyway I don't really need to go into that but point is chandler is scums
I'm going to skip quotes regarding Joey's progression on Titus from here, but Joey is kinda a really egotistical town player and he doesn't really talk about people that he can't read cuz he thinks that he can read anyone at least outwardly. he doesn't really have the self awareness to say that he can't read titus as a player and the fact that he repeatedly calls her town while repeatedly softening his responsibility for her mislynch by saying that he can't read her (but still defending her!) doesn't look good at all.
Honestly I don't really mind lynching either Titus or nEE; Titus is a slot i historically can't read properly and nEE voided his right to live with the hammer & their content are pretty irrelevant
like he says shit like this to try to look middle ground and he argues it after the day phase but the reality is he was the single strongest opposition in the game to titus getting lynched that phase.
In post 496, Joey_ wrote:Ive seen scum PM and I am thinking hes town
Do people tell you your reads are bad a lot?
Never post game
Referring to the PM read moreso but why and this also feels like a TMI read
In post 631, Joey_ wrote:Okay and imagine flipping a town titus on lynchpool day, pretty fucking bad uh?
In post 633, Joey_ wrote:Flipping a slot who objectively anti-towned and, imo, has one of the worst iso on the whole table on lynchpool day is a GAIN for town because that slot wouldve been pushed regardless if pool day or not
Still just really really awful
I'd point out here the INSANE amount of interactions with Menalque but I'm not actually all that interested in elucidating on my Menalque inclusion in the Joey scumread so that's a read for another day
My read:
- Suji is town (more likely distribution of town)
- Suji said the truth
oh look another townread for really no reason.
In post 676, Titus wrote:Alright, I am going for Melanque scum, Joey and Awoo town (I hope they don't fight). Given my theory, Melanque's partners are average or newer.
I need to sit down with NEE and GL.
just eh
i'll get into this tomorrow after joey flips scum
In post 687, Joey_ wrote:@nEE I am a sucker for ate & your 677 most likely comes from town. Thing is, I still think you deserve the rope considering the pool
presumed correct townread on presumed town!ee but still justifying why he's voting town over scum.
In post 728, Joey_ wrote:Somehow I am starting to lean that GL might be the best flip, somehow. My guts says both titus/nEE are town meh
In post 729, Joey_ wrote:I am definitely townreading scum tho because 3 scums can't fit my reads
oh look: once again we have mr. joey defending titus while simultaneously lampshading the fact that he would have above average odds of being wrong on it so it can't be held against him as much.
I'm going to stop there: I can continue to point out how they're obviously SvS but I think if you haven't seen it here you're either scum refusing to see it or just terrible at mafia and continuing to explain this won't help further.
VOTE: Joey_
they're obviously scum, they're the lynch today, GL if you're town get out of your stupid PK tunnel and vote it.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
Also the obvious read (and the obvious read is usually right) is that scum put Titus (who makes sense to be included in that pool) with Correspondence the lurker and NorwegianEE the quickhammerer because they assumed they could get the lynch on one of the townies and then later push the argument that since every slot included in the set of 3 was scummy as sin it probably didn't include any scum
there's other interpretations like 2s in the pool and it was meant to set up Titus for later after Norwegian flipped scum but Titus ended up being the one lynched but yeah
anyway. I don't want to commit too hard to the other scumread.
there's a saying that replacements are a blessing for the team that gets them because we get to see the game with fresh eyes. that's what i'm here to do.
and my reads are pretty damn amazing and i'm in a slot that it strains credulity to scumread so you should listen to me now
oh yeah another reason I scumread Joey is that he somehow could see that Mutantdevle was scum but thought Awoo was a deepwolf? like if he's smart enough to have that TR he's not a fucking nimrod who would SR my slot because you have to be a fucking nimrod to have SRed Awoo and I stand by that.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
You're welcome to explain how you managed to townread every slot in the game besides Awoo who was truly obvtown if you're town. I dunno. Maybe if it's something dumb like GL/Menalque you can be town but your play makes a lot more sense as scum right now.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
I'm not sure what you think you're going to get out of trying to pin me down.
My case for why my slot is town is going to forever be based off of Awoo because I'm good as scum and Awoo isn't. I think that keeping people off balance is helpful. I think keeping you off balance in this situation is helpful
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
I think the gamestate is weird. I simultaneously believe my case on you could and could not be right. If I planned to speedlynch you I wouldn't have asked for a deadline extension. If I didn't think the case could be right I wouldn't have made it. If I didn't want to troll you I wouldn't have entered this day voting you.
How's that for an honest answer?
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
Like given you hard defended scum D1 I'm not sure why you're using whether or not you can make sense of my case as a proxy for whether it's right or comes from town.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
In post 2116, Joey_ wrote:Its hilarious because the only time you saw my s game, you townread me & you know nothing about my s gameplay
About your cases; your a titus spiritual successor with Moon Logic v2, you are pretty good at pushing pressure and having confidence while looking like a douche, but your conclusions not above average from our history of games
I've solved multiple games this year on day 1.
My current town winrate is about 75%
U really shouldn't be shit talking me
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
