Open 767: Nomination Mafia [Day 7]

[Sujimichi]

Hi everyone!

I'm a little busy today but I'll definitely make another post within the next 1 hour.

[Sujimichi]

Probably sooner than an hour to be quite honest.

[Sujimichi]

No offense but can anyone quite any post in any game on this website where someone said they were going to do something in X hours and then they actually did it?

Hi everyone!

I'm a little busy today but I'll definitely make another post within the next 1 hour.

Probably sooner than an hour to be quite honest.

[Sujimichi]

Ok. That was fun. I'm going to catch up now.

[Sujimichi]

Ok. I finished reading through. My internet went out halfway through so I am phone posting right now. Of the nominees, this is where I’m at.

T
GuiltyLion
NorwegianBoyEE
Titus
S

I have a full read list but I don’t think I want to post it just yet (plus it’s on my computer).

[Sujimichi]

are you an alt suji?

No. I am familiar with the site though. A friend invited me to play here.

[Sujimichi]

Ok. I finished reading through. My internet went out halfway through so I am phone posting right now. Of the nominees, this is where I’m at.

T
GuiltyLion
NorwegianBoyEE
Titus
S

I have a full read list but I don’t think I want to post it just yet (plus it’s on my computer).

Also why don’t you wanna post your full reads?

I think how this nomination phase plays out could impact it quite a bit. Plus, it’s on my computer, and I don’t feel like typing it out in my phone.

[Sujimichi]

I can provide a list like you did, but I’m not typing out my reasons why on my phone.

T
Joey_
GuiltyLion
Creature

TL
Menalque
Awoo

N
NorwegianBoyEE

SL
pisskop

S
PMysterious
Titus

[Sujimichi]

What do you mean it’s convenient?

[Sujimichi]

Back on the computer now.

Town

Joey_

: Our Day 1 reads matched up fairly well in regards to mutantdevle and Awoo (173), and his later Creature read (217). I also liked his response to Titus in post 215. He put effort into present a case for town mutantdevle in post 221 which I also liked. I didn't care for his comment on NorwegianBoyEE's hammer in post 228, because that gave me a scumlean on NorwegianBoyEE. I also didn't like his pushing Correspondence/GuiltyLion in post 338, because I feel that slot was setup for an easy mislynch during the nomination phase. I also question his reason for being okay with lynch NorwegianBoyEE in post 366 considering what he said in post 228, but it aligns with my read, and I also like his current take on Creature/Menalque/Awoo in post 427. Overall, I townread the slot despite some hesitations. If I am wrong on a townread, this is probably it.

GuiltyLion

: This is a townread mostly because it was an empty slot thrown into the nomination pool most likely as an easy mislynch. GuiltyLion's reads on Awoo/Menalque/Joey_/PM in post 520also mostly match up with mine. He also seems to have similar thoughts on pisskop and Titus possibly being tied together, and his comment on NorwegianBoyEE in post 522 are what led to me re-evaluating NorwegianBoyEE and placing him in my null pool at the moment.

Creature

: This is probably a more tonal townread for me. I just like the flow of his posting. I do think we mostly disagree on our reads, however, as we only agree on two possible scum (post 396) though he later comes around to a possible scum in Titus (post 500). We also agree that Correspondence/GuiltyLion were included in the nomination phase as a mislynch candidate.

Town Leaning

Menalque

: I didn't care for most of the Day 1 content here. Disagrees early with my reads (post 181), and I didn't care for the callout to self meta in post 210. I do like the pushing of NorwegianBoyEE for his hammer vote in 283 , 285 , and 288. Defends Correspondence/GuiltyLion as an easy mislynch, which I like. Somewhat similar current reads, though we obviously disagree on Dongempire/me.

Awoo

: I almost want to put Awoo on the high-end of null territory, but I'm placing him at the low-end of townleaning territory. Most of our reads do not align, and I didn't really care for his push and reasoning on mutantdevle, and reasoning for townreading NorwegianBoyEE as it is almost entirely meta-based. I did like his reluctance to hunt for partners before knowing alignment, but that's a weak reason for townreading someone. I liked his post 244 as it explained his motivations for his Day 1 play. I also like his reluctance to post further reads prior to the nomination phase. We agreed on the Correspondence/GuiltyLion mislynch, and he is wary of NorwegianBoyEE now. We seem to agree on Titus being scum. I liked his post 380 on Titus to be specific.

Null

NorwegianBoyEE

: I had an early townread on NorwegianBoyEE for calling out pisskop's post 41 in post 64 and his stance on pisskop in post 90 and 96. Less so in post 97, but valid explanation in post 101. I absolutely hated how fast he hammered, and didn't really care for his explanation in post 264 and 298. He could have just stated his stance instead of hammering. As I said above, GuiltyLion's post 522 has him in null for now.

Scum Leaning

pisskop

: I haven't really liked anything from pisskop since his response to mutantdevle's vote in post 41 which I don't actually see as a valid reason or blending in. And, while pisskop states that this is an RVS wagon to make content and generate cases he mostly seems to be making noise and then leaves in irritation in post 95. I'm not sure the intent behind asking for a pool of three (post 224) from mutantdevle post NorwegianBoyEE's hammer since he seeming scum read him. Confused on the Titus push today since he liked Titus voting mutantdevle Day 1, and it doesn't feel genuine. Of course, he unvote Titus in 484 , though I don't know why. Agree with the PMysterious and Menalque reads in post 452 however.

Scum

PMysterious

: None of his posting feels genuine to me. For example: post 214 is comes across as hedging, and post 230 comes across as too much information. The follow up to NorwegianBoyEE pointing that out in post 232 feels fake (why say Vanilla Townie/Scum; I would think genuine posting would be Town/Scum). He also comes across as generally detached to the point he felt the need to post that he is reading the game in post 489.

Titus

: Disagree with her stance on mutantdevle's vote in post 36. Repetitive in calling mutantdevle scummy but doesn't really explain why (posts 59 and 106) and nitpicking mutantdevle (post 180). Don't like the call for early intent to hammer in post 194 , and there is no need to get role claim given the setup. The snark and chain posting in posts 194, 195, 197, 198, and especially 199 come across as fake and not really with the intent to do anything other than be snarky. Didn't like the Correspondence/GuiltyLion vote for reasons above, and I don't understand the townread on NorwegianBoyEE. The further push to lynch Correspondence/GuiltyLion (post 375 ) is bad especially since it was for untrue reasons ([Correspondence]'s posting just enough to avoid attention/replacement). I don't believe post 384 is genuine.

[Sujimichi]

I also question his reason for being okay with lynch NorwegianBoyEE in post 366 considering what he said in post 228

You mightve misread 228 because in both posts, I am saying I would lynch nEE for his hammer

It looks like I did. I thought you meant you wouldn't mind roping mutantdevle for not posting within the 6-7 hour window.

[Sujimichi]

I think there is difference between openly speculating on partners and quietly searching. I don't see that as a contradiction at all.

[Sujimichi]

I think there is difference between openly speculating on partners and quietly searching. I don't see that as a contradiction at all.

How so? He wasn't quietly searching, he was convinced I was the same alignement as mutant's and he was voting mutant all day.
He lied to a direct question and tried to buddy me into getting information so his team read was made and wasn't even speculation.

What do you like about someone being reluctant about team reading?

But, he wasn't expressing that openly. He kept it to himself and used it for a reason he later stated openly. What's the motivation for him revealing it at all if he is scum? He could have easily kept it to himself.

I don't think that trying to establish associations between people during Day 1 is productive at all. That said, I do think that during later days (when there is solid information) going back to Day 1 and trying to find associations can be productive.

[Sujimichi]

I think that openly speculating (and discussing with other people) on associations Day 1 is unproductive (I disagree that unproductive inherently means scummy). That is not what Awoo was doing. And, again I ask, what is the motivation as scum for revealing that he was posting with an association between you and mutantdevle in his mind?

[Sujimichi]

What do you mean it’s convenient?

you're town reading all of the common town reads and scum reading the two other popular scum reads other than you

I've given my reasons for my reads. Feel free to address them.

[Sujimichi]

not really able to make anything out of sujj arguing semantics and not really bringing anything new to the table

I've given reasons for my stance on each person in this game. How am I not bringing anything new to the table?

[Sujimichi]

If you disagree with my reads, feel free to say so and where you disagree. If you don't, then I'm glad we're aligned.

[Sujimichi]

are you an alt suji?

No. I am familiar with the site though. A friend invited me to play here.

Oh shit, okay, I thought I’d seen you before

Can you say which friend it was?

you know that if you're not gonna answer this then just tell me and I'll stop bringing it up

It's not really game relevant, but Mumble.

[Sujimichi]

If you disagree with my reads, feel free to say so and where you disagree. If you don't, then I'm glad we're aligned.

how long did it take you to read the game suji? ballpark figure?

About an hour and a half.

[Sujimichi]

If you disagree with my reads, feel free to say so and where you disagree. If you don't, then I'm glad we're aligned.

how long did it take you to read the game suji? ballpark figure?

About an hour and a half.

how long was your internet out for suji?

About two and half hours. Is there a point to this?

[Sujimichi]

Or, I keep notes in a word document and know basic bb code.

[Sujimichi]

Or, I keep notes in a word document and know basic bb code.

okay, and if you flip green I'll apologise

I'll admit idk you so maybe you would do this

but I don't think most people would read through the game on their phone while simultaneously writing their notes into a word doc on their computer

I think they'd just wait to get internet back and do it on the computer

I'll look forward to the apology then. I also look forward to you addressing reads you disagree with or anything particular about my reasoning that you disagree with.

[Sujimichi]

If you disagree with my reads, feel free to say so and where you disagree. If you don't, then I'm glad we're aligned.

Why would someone agreeing with your reads mean you have the same alignment?

It doesn't, necessarily. That's irrellevant as my usage of "aligned" there means "we're in agreement on our thinking" which should be obvious from the context of the sentence.

[Sujimichi]

Scum attack when we make the protown move to lynch Correspondence or get info (GuiltyLion sub).

Why is it a protown move to lynch an inactive slot that is almost certainly to get replaced? You already asserted that the Correspondence was being just active enough not to get replaced or to avoid attention (375, 417), but that wasn't true as Correspondence's last post was 7 days prior to your assertion. I think it's a proscum move to try and lynch a completely inactive slot in it's absence.

[Sujimichi]

If you disagree with my reads, feel free to say so and where you disagree. If you don't, then I'm glad we're aligned.

Why would someone agreeing with your reads mean you have the same alignment?

It doesn't, necessarily. That's irrellevant as my usage of "aligned" there means "we're in agreement on our thinking" which should be obvious from the context of the sentence.

It wasn't and it's honestly pretty gross that you'd try to put me clarifying that as something that should have been "obvious".

Given Awoo is likely town, this could be planting the seeds you two share an alignment when you could be scum.

I fail to see how it is gross to assume someone can put two and two together (a common definition of "align" in addition to a preceding sentence where the theme is discussing agreement), but I don't feel like getting chastised for discussing semantics again. I didn't try to assign anything toward you with my statement, as you seem to be thinking I did (hence "gross"). Actually, it feels as though you were using that as a lead in to project something you would do as scum to me.

[Sujimichi]

Titus, why did you fail to address my comment on your Correspondence assertion?

[Sujimichi]

*cough* suji *cough*

I'm not shying away from my assertion that Titus is scum, and I will vote there in due time. Why is there a rush to?

[Sujimichi]

Scum attack when we make the protown move to lynch Correspondence or get info (GuiltyLion sub).

Why is it a protown move to lynch an inactive slot that is almost certainly to get replaced? You already asserted that the Correspondence was being just active enough not to get replaced or to avoid attention (375, 417), but that wasn't true as Correspondence's last post was 7 days prior to your assertion. I think it's a proscum move to try and lynch a completely inactive slot in it's absence.

[Sujimichi]

Scum attack when we make the protown move to lynch Correspondence or get info (GuiltyLion sub).

Why is it a protown move to lynch an inactive slot that is almost certainly to get replaced? You already asserted that the Correspondence was being just active enough not to get replaced or to avoid attention (375, 417), but that wasn't true as Correspondence's last post was 7 days prior to your assertion. I think it's a proscum move to try and lynch a completely inactive slot in it's absence.

Well, the move is to either get content or lynch it. Your post forgets the night phase in the middle.

If Correspondence prod dodged only, then yes we should lynch it as he'd be scum coasting on the assumption scum would never put a lurker in.

Yet, he got replaced by GL who is a very weak townread based on his under weak to moderate pressure content.

I was also townreading Nee at the time. So it's the best play in the situation we had. I would love to be stringing up Melanque but I can't do that.

Correspondence had two posts in game which occurred on the same day. There was no history of prod dodging, and a phase change does not impact the inevitable replacement given the violation of activity rules. The protown move is to wait so that we can get content. The proscum move is to lynch the slot before we do.

Even if I ignored (or "forgot") the phase change, there were 7 days between the last post and your assertion, and the moderator prodded Correspondence (317) almost 4 full days before your assertion. This is well outside the activity requirements and you should have known a replacement was coming. We were (and are) in no rush to end the day phase, so pushing Correspondence was very scummy for you.

[Sujimichi]

If GL is town, scum want that slot empty and without production as its mislynch bait later.

Or, scum wanted to include one of their own for town credit knowing there was an easy push on either a player that (you admit) is mislynch bait or a player that arguably quickhammered.

[Sujimichi]

I didn't like your responses.

VOTE: Titus

[Sujimichi]

The push prevented GL's slot from remaining empty so *shrug* teach me to play day 1

How did your push have anything to do with preventing Correspondence/GuiltyLion from remaining content-less (I assume this is what you mean, and not that your push was responsible for someone filling a slot that had replaced out)? I've already covered Correspondence's inevitable replacement. Did you think that GuiltyLion would have come in here and posted nothing but for your push?

[Sujimichi]

I replaced Dongempire and am voting Titus (709).

[Sujimichi]

I'm still here, but nothing much has changed so I don't have much to say. GuiltyLion or pisskop should vote Titus so we can proceed.

[Sujimichi]

I'm still here, but nothing much has changed so I don't have much to say. GuiltyLion or pisskop should vote Titus so we can proceed.

I get you were on Titus' wagon, but are you sure they should directly ignore NorwegianboyEE in this case? He's also near the majority number, so saying this makes it seem like you're tunneling onto Titus, despite (at the time until Kop's vote) NorwegianboyEE having the same amount of votes as Titus.

I don't understand the intent of this post. I very obviously have Titus as a scum read and NoregianboyEE as a null read. Why would I ask to have my null read lynched over my scum read?

[Sujimichi]

I stated my preference. They still have their choice, and my comment in no way prevents them from making their own choice. If it influences them to vote where I would like them to vote, that is great. You are acting like by making my comment I am forcing them to take an action which is incorrect and disingenious.

[Sujimichi]

I already get enough fiber in my diet, thanks.

[Sujimichi]

You have bad gut feels on Titus wagon (and expect her to flip green) while thinking the NorwegianboyEE wagon looks townier, and yet you do nothing except say that to shade NorwegianboyEE, myself, and pisskop. Minus points for you.

[Sujimichi]

I am as well. My point was, however, that you were/are in a position to do something about your bad feelings and yet chose/choose not to.

[Sujimichi]

Sure. What would you like to chat about?

[Sujimichi]

My ideas are as follows:

1. Suji - norwegianboy make sense as mafia partners, both suji and predecessor read norwegianboy as null
2. Based on how I'm feeling right now, I'm starting to really sympathize with titus erratic gameplay making me feel more town towards her,
3. Lynching norwegianboy today, even if he flips town, makes it easier to work together with my townreads on the wagon in the future, specifically day 3 where we actually get to choose a lynch,
4. because I don't want norwegianboy lynched on an odd numbered day, that would be a waste, furthermore,
5. I expect this game to go into LYLO at 7 players because I'm a pessimist, and leaving norwegianboy alive indefinitely might cause us to lose the game if he's town,
6. because this bad d1 hammer thing is never going to go away.
7. So unless menalque is right and the entire scumteam is pushing for norwegianboy's lynch,
8. which I said in my last post doesn't make sense to me,
9. nine
10. there's higher density of scum on the titus wagon,
11. uhhhh
12. yeah

1. I've given my reason why I moved NorwegianboyEE from scum to null (specifically 552). I don't see why scum would include someone who quickhammered in the nomination pool voluntarily. Though, if Titus is town I would have to drop him to a scum lean, though my preceding point would still cause me pause.
   
2. I don't see why erratic game play is town indicative. Could you discuss this more?
   
3. Joey is my only townread on the NorwegianboyEE wagon.
   
4. Could you flesh this out a little for me. Why does lynching NorwegianboyEE on an odd day matter over an even day?
   
5. If NorwegianboyEE is town, lynching him today doesn't solve your pessimism. By contrast, Titus is an experienced player who, as scum, could talk her way into a win in a LYLO situation.
   
6. I agree on this point.
   
7. So far, 2 out of my 3 scum reads are on the NorwegianboyEE wagon.
   
8. Not a full thought
   
9. Not a thought
   
10. I disagree.
    
11. hmmmm
    
12. no

[Sujimichi]

Who are these "lots of wagoners" and what is the "extensive encouragement" that's been required? Because, I think that's just something you've made up.

[Sujimichi]

Also, I dislike how you wanted to chat but then ignored my response completely.

[Sujimichi]

I do like that your vote matches your assertions though. Even if I believe you're wrong.

[Sujimichi]

VC 2.6:

Titus (3)	Menalque 391, NorwegianboyEE 479, Sujimichi 709.
NorwegianboyEE (5)	PMysterious, 492, Joey_ 612, Titus 474 + Creature + Awoo
GuiltyLion (0)
Not Voting (3)	pisskop 484GuiltyLion

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2019-10-15 12:05:08).

No changes to VC.

nEE is L-1 with that vote If i counted correctly

That's not the most recent vote count.

VC 2.8:

Titus (5)	Awoo 380, Menalque 391, NorwegianboyEE 479, Sujimichi 709, pisskop 818
NorwegianboyEE (4)	PMysterious, 492, Joey_ 612, Titus 474, Creature 804
GuiltyLion (0)
Not Voting (1)	GuiltyLion

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2019-10-15 12:05:08).

With Awoo unvoting Titus and voting NorwegianboyEE, that is L-1 one though. Titus and NorwegianboyEE have swapped places.

[Sujimichi]

I don't understand. I responded seriously, though admittedly the last two were for humor's sake.

[Sujimichi]

Also, I would like an answer to 863.

[Sujimichi]

I disagree that I needed encouragement to vote Titus (and I didn't need a greenlight from you). I wanted to interact with her prior to placing my vote, which is what I did. I would also like to point out that people saying they were okay with voting someone and then being reluctant to do so would indicate the person being voted was more likely to be scum.

I've been providing my reasoning for my reads and actions. I don't think that's scummy. I think that's part of how you figure out the game. You seem to be projecting yourself onto my actions, and I think that's a bad basis for generating a read on someone as they are not you.

[Sujimichi]

But, thank you for a genuine response.

[Sujimichi]

[Sujimichi]

T
GuiltyLion
NorwegianBoyEE
Menalque

TL
Awoo
Joey_

N

SL
pisskop
Creature

S
PMysterious

That did not go how scum envisioned it going at all.

[Sujimichi]

VOTE: PMysterious

[Sujimichi]

Need to double check but this could mean that the late day switch off was an attempt to deflect that would then have seemed too obvious

This is a good point, and something I thought of as well. I'm debating the likelihood of it because I wonder how much pressure he would have really received if NorwegianboyEE had gone through.

[Sujimichi]

Why do you TL joey, suji?

I get the impression that Joey's read on Titus, while wrong, came from a genuine place. You should also note that in my original read list I said that if I was wrong on a town read, he was likely it. Since he was against the Titus lynch (even if I think it was genuine) I dropped him from Town to Town lean and will continue to watch him.

[Sujimichi]

Also why do you SL creature?

He was off the Titus lynch, is shading all players I think to be town, and has not contributed much other than that recently.

[Sujimichi]

Why would scum setup a situation that puts the chance of them being lynched at 2/3? I don't find that very likely.

[Sujimichi]

@awoo & suji; can you explain your PM read?

From my initial stance on PM, the below spoilered posts have reinforced my scum read. In post 819 and 823, PM's response to me is throwing shade at me trying to paint the Titus wagon as a bad wagon, and highlight the Norwegianboy wagon (same amount of votes, don't force people) as a viable alternative. Post 895 is basically PM saying they are okay with whatever and don't really have a stance (I'm fine with Titus if the majority want it), despite them asserting I am scum if Titus flips town.

Spoiler:

I'm still here, but nothing much has changed so I don't have much to say. GuiltyLion or pisskop should vote Titus so we can proceed.

I get you were on Titus' wagon, but are you sure they should directly ignore NorwegianboyEE in this case? He's also near the majority number, so saying this makes it seem like you're tunneling onto Titus, despite (at the time until Kop's vote) NorwegianboyEE having the same amount of votes as Titus.

I'm still here, but nothing much has changed so I don't have much to say. GuiltyLion or pisskop should vote Titus so we can proceed.

I get you were on Titus' wagon, but are you sure they should directly ignore NorwegianboyEE in this case? He's also near the majority number, so saying this makes it seem like you're tunneling onto Titus, despite (at the time until Kop's vote) NorwegianboyEE having the same amount of votes as Titus.

I don't understand the intent of this post. I very obviously have Titus as a scum read and NoregianboyEE as a null read. Why would I ask to have my null read lynched over my scum read?

The idea is that you're not giving them a choice. If they scum read Norwegian, let them scum read Norwegian. Saying to vote Titus gives them that lack of choice, crucial in allowing a Town to be that, a town. Maybe they have something that you weren't aware of, and you're tunneling them into a particular lynch.

If they want to vote for Titus, then I'm fine with it, but my heart is saying NorwegianboyEE is scum, so that's where I'll stick.

I'm willing to ask a similar thing. If Titus flips town, then Suji is a likely suspect. If he flips Mafia, then, I don't know what I'll do. I don't think he'll flip Mafia given the circumstances of this day, but if he does, then I'll try to keep an open mind.

I still think Norwegian was the better lynch of the three, but again, I'm fine with a Titus lynch if that's what the majority wants to do.

[Sujimichi]

Why do you townread nEE? Lynchpool assumptions?

Yes.

[Sujimichi]

It was a tunnel-visioned push at the end of the day.

We were locked into lynching one of three players, and I gave my reasoning for reading each as I did. I interacted with my scum read, determined that my read was accurate, and voted there. This was not at the end of day. I then asked two people who weren't voting to vote my scum read.

To describe my actions as a tunnel-visioned push at the end of the day is disingenuous at best.

[Sujimichi]

Joey, can you outline why you think PM is town? I don't think my interacting with him is going to produce anything useful.

[Sujimichi]

I would like to hear your thoughts on PMysterious, GuiltyLion.

[Sujimichi]

that's an interesting dish

how about you describe the way it's gonna taste to me

Well, first they position on Titus seems strategic

Could you explain this further? How was my position strategic? How was it any more so strategic than any one else's position on Titus?

[Sujimichi]

I'm not though. I fail to see how asking for clarification on a broad point as to why I am scum so that it can be discussed (or at least a more specific stance can be made) is scummy.

[Sujimichi]

I'm not though. I fail to see how asking for clarification on a broad point as to why I am scum so that it can be discussed (or at least a more specific stance can be made) is scummy.

The fact that you chose to engage with that particular point

As opposed to pisskop's point of "Suji is either bad at mafia or mafia" or your point of "Look at the entirety of Suji's posting...scum"? Yes, I chose the point that was most likely to have an actual basis behind it.

[Sujimichi]

I'm not though. I fail to see how asking for clarification on a broad point as to why I am scum so that it can be discussed (or at least a more specific stance can be made) is scummy.

The fact that you chose to engage with that particular point

As opposed to pisskop's point of "Suji is either bad at mafia or mafia" or your point of "Look at the entirety of Suji's posting...scum"? Yes, I chose the point that was most likely to have an actual basis behind it.

Or you went for the easiest thing to try and defend yourself against because it’s easier to nitpick over being strategic than it is to engage with trying to defend your overall posting when you know it’s bad

Or to call me or pk or creature out on SRing you but instead you’re nitpicking one small detail of it

It's not possible to defend myself against someone's perception of my play. It is likewise not possible to defend something without having a point in which to defend. That is what pisskop and you provided respectively.

I'm not going to "call anyone out" without understanding their reasoning first. That's why I asked my question to Creature. You and pisskop are ancillary at this point (for both your "reasons" and the fact that you were on the wagon yesterday and thus lower priority at this point).

[Sujimichi]

Seems awfully agreeful

Would you prefer that I lie? Pointing out one thing and saying “pretty agreeful” seems disingenuous and reaching for a reason.

That’s just called bad town. Seems to me that your trying to form a misslynch

It’s bad town if you are town. Otherwise it’s scum. I haven’t formed enough of an opinion and am not making a push on your slot, so this is again reaching for a reason.

Providing reasons is Null as personality isn’t Alignment Indicative. Are you saying he’s projecting himself to look bad?

Providing reasons and rationale is what let’s us move beyond personality/meta arguments. I don’t understand this or the following quote.

Didn’t like responses?
What’s you with Responses and Reasoning being alignment indicative?

See above. Your entire “evaluation” of me and Joey seems to be disingenuous posting that you posit supports your vote on me (the counterwagon the PMysterious). You did not come to a conclusion based on the information, rather you looked for information and reasoning to support a pre-determined conclusion. There is a high likelihood that you and PM are partners at this point.

[Sujimichi]

I've already answered that, and then provided a follow up with further information. If you don't want to read the game, I can't help you.

[Sujimichi]

Also to confirm.
You saying that my slot voting you means me and PM are buddies?

Absolutely not. I did not think that with Creature's initial vote. See my post above. I think that now because "You did not come to a conclusion based on the information, rather you looked for information and reasoning to support a pre-determined conclusion. There is a high likelihood that you and PM are partners at this point."

I find it doubtful you didn't know the leading wagons at the time as well as that you only chose me (counterwagon to leading wagon at the time) and one other player to ISO based on one post from Titus. It feels engineered with a purpose.

[Sujimichi]

Quick question before I engage further: Do you really think that I am scum reading PM for one post?

[Sujimichi]

Quick question before I engage further: Do you really think that I am scum reading PM for one post?

Not a post.
But the fact you believe he did something that appeared scummy but with my experience is actually just Null.

Then you haven't actually read my reasoning. I'm not going to engage with you futher until others have had a chance to as I don't believe you are engaging to understand my alignment.

[Sujimichi]

So because someone changes their vote to you they are auto suspect for Mafia team with PM? Despite us not even knowing if PM will actually flip Mafia or not.

I've already answered this. Not knowing PMysterious' alignment as a certainty is why I am not pressing it.

Chances are at this point Mafia has a high chance to buss themselves to actually win the game.

You need to read how Day 1 and the Nomination 1 phases actually went. I will specifically note the parties chosen.

Note that neither of the above actually address my reasoning as to why I have a scum read on PMysterious or address the point that you are not actually trying to understand my alignment.

Ancillary point: You keep appealing to your experience, but as far as I can tell you have none.

[Sujimichi]

Sorry. I said I wasn't engaging further, but those points were not within the bounds of what I intended. I am done now.

[Sujimichi]

Now flygon replaces in and suji scumreads him for scumreading the popular wagon

That's not the basis for my read on him at all. Why make something up when I flat out said why I was associating him and PM?

[Sujimichi]

I was wrong, and I need to re-evaluate. I will be back tomorrow.

[Sujimichi]

TrueSoulEnergy townslipped in post 1411 and he is never mafia probably I think.

There is no post 1411. Could you clarify?

I am likely ignoring Menalque and Awoo's further posting (except for Awoo's clarification), as they seemed to be tunneled on me being scum. For clarity, by "tunnel" I mean, unwilling to consider anything other than.

[Sujimichi]

That's unhelpful, and I don't see why you won't clairfy if it is beneficial to the town.

[Sujimichi]

@suji he's talking about TTS first post

Thanks.

NM I found the game link.

This? How is this a town tell, especially from someone who boasts their experience?

[Sujimichi]

I was referring to 1141 not 1140 btw, suji is mafia being intentionally obtuse and I will continue to mock him as long as the two of us remain in the game for my personal amusement.

You could have provided clarity easily, and I don't get why you didn't. Also, I am not being intentionally obtuse. This happens to be how my mind processes things, and I find your comments somewhat insulting.

So is creature replacing out means hes scum?

Why would you come to that conclusion.
Also I was expecting to get something like VT, Citizen or Mafia Goon.
But I get Town so yeah know, no clue if I have abilities, so let me look at the rolelist here.

How is this a town tell, especially for someone experienced? The roles are listed in the second post.

[Sujimichi]

Good observation, that's because they are

That seems unnecessary for the game, and if it is because of your view on my alignment, I hope you will apoligize when you realize you are wrong. If not, if you feel the need to attack people based on their peronalilty I think that says a lot about you as a person.

[Sujimichi]

How is this a town tell, especially for someone experienced? The roles are listed in the second post.

Could you answer this?

[Sujimichi]

Based on what? You've just indicated that your initial premise was inocrrect.

[Sujimichi]

Dare I ask?

What made him towny?

[Sujimichi]

He chilled out, then called you mafia which started a counterwagon to PM on you which was a good wagon, and I think that wagon had a lot of town on it, really it would make sense at this point to just kill everyone on the PM wagon starting with me tbh

He also voted PM prior to his replace out.

Do you believe that the D1 Nomination phase had 2+ scum in it?

[Sujimichi]

Yo Asshole.
Your the one that was so keen to vote PM.
Joey voted them as well but at least they had a list.

I'm not sure how that post makes me an asshole or worthy of a direct personal attack, but you do you friend. I'm aware that I was keen on voting PM and pushed it (which is why I said I was wrong a needed to re-evaluate). However, if you look at the context of that post, I was responding directly to the fact that Awoo was stating that Creature started the counterwagon to PM on me. That is true, but Creature also wound up on PM prior to replacing out.

[Sujimichi]

He chilled out, then called you mafia which started a counterwagon to PM on you which was a good wagon, and I think that wagon had a lot of town on it, really it would make sense at this point to just kill everyone on the PM wagon starting with me tbh

He also voted PM prior to his replace out.

Do you believe that the D1 Nomination phase had 2+ scum in it?

^ Saying this last line here.
Scum Slipped.
Here’s why.
Lion, Nor and Titus were in The Wagon.
Titus Hammered
Nor with votes
Lion with no votes

My thought process here is, the fact they mentioned that Makes me have 101% Confidence that they are the scum team.
Also I noticed Suji is using allot of AtE.
Which is usually a scum tell for most Players.
Like -) “I’ll replace out” “oh maybe this wagon is false” “You’ll regret it because I’ll flip Town”

I'm not sure how asking a question is a scum slip, and the above explanation does not make sense to me. Could you try to be a little clearer? Also, could you point to where I have used AtE? I don't believe I've ever said the statements you are attributing to me.

[Sujimichi]

Truesoulenergy seems like town as well.

How so?

[Sujimichi]

Truesoulenergy seems like town as well.

How so?

Yeah your doing the same thing with me that you did with PM.
It should be obvious that the 3 Lynch option are probably all Town.
Yet you consider to push me.
If I was Mafia, I’d have put you or Joey as a Lynch option.

Why did you take the time to answer a question that was not directed toward you, but did not take the time to answer questions/asks for clarity that were directed toward you?

I haven't done anything in regard to pushing your slot because, as I've stated, I'm re-evaluating my stances right now. I asked a question to

another player

to understand his view point. Please answer my questions directed toward you.

[Sujimichi]

Yo Asshole.
Your the one that was so keen to vote PM.
Joey voted them as well but at least they had a list.

I'm not sure how that post makes me an asshole or worthy of a direct personal attack, but you do you friend. I'm aware that I was keen on voting PM and pushed it (which is why I said I was wrong a needed to re-evaluate). However, if you look at the context of that post, I was responding directly to the fact that Awoo was stating that Creature started the counterwagon to PM on me. That is true, but Creature also wound up on PM prior to replacing out.

He chilled out, then called you mafia which started a counterwagon to PM on you which was a good wagon, and I think that wagon had a lot of town on it, really it would make sense at this point to just kill everyone on the PM wagon starting with me tbh

He also voted PM prior to his replace out.

Do you believe that the D1 Nomination phase had 2+ scum in it?

^ Saying this last line here.
Scum Slipped.
Here’s why.
Lion, Nor and Titus were in The Wagon.
Titus Hammered
Nor with votes
Lion with no votes

My thought process here is, the fact they mentioned that Makes me have 101% Confidence that they are the scum team.
Also I noticed Suji is using allot of AtE.
Which is usually a scum tell for most Players.
Like -) “I’ll replace out” “oh maybe this wagon is false” “You’ll regret it because I’ll flip Town”

I'm not sure how asking a question is a scum slip, and the above explanation does not make sense to me. Could you try to be a little clearer? Also, could you point to where I have used AtE? I don't believe I've ever said the statements you are attributing to me.

[Sujimichi]

Please stop ignoring my questions. I asked them for a reason.

[Sujimichi]

You've already read past my questions and provided answers to questions that weren't your own, in addition to providing statements that were unrelated. Your bans on (from what I assume are other sites) do not apply here, so I don't understand that argument.

[Sujimichi]

My avatar is most certainly not white.

[Sujimichi]

I still think Awoo is a better PL Lynch.
Because chances are this is a 3 Town wagon.
The fact that suji actually thinks I’m Mafia proves he’s mafia.
As if I was Mafia. Suji/Joey would have been a Lynch option.

Can you stop it with the misrepresentation? It really doesnt help you if you are town. Nowhere today have I said you were mafia. I said that you were probably PM's partner yesterday, which would require PM to be mafia (note: she was not).

Now, if you are going to continue dodging my questions, I am going to vote you simply for not being willing to work to try and help solve this game. So, are you going to answer my questions?

[Sujimichi]

That's fine, but I will vote for TSE over you and Awoo if he doesn't answer my questions. It's not helpful.

[Sujimichi]

One last time. Are you going to answer my questions to you or not?

[Sujimichi]

First post was not meant to be quoted as a question. My questions in the second post stand. Don't answer a question with a question.

Please clairfy your scumslip statement. Please point to my AtE.

[Sujimichi]

One last time. Are you going to answer my questions to you or not?

I don’t understand stuff unless just the main point is stated.
Anything that is a bunch of jibber jabber throws me off and makes it difficult for me to read correctly.

They were direct questions and easily understandable. Please don't pretend you didn't.

[Sujimichi]

That is not a clairication. You have not pointed to any AtE. You claim to be experienced and good at this game, but you refuse to answer basic questions or perform any action outside your self-centered point-of-view. If you are town, you are a detriment. If you are scum, I will be happy.

VOTE: TSE

I will not be unvoting.

[Sujimichi]

That's fairly insulting. I'm not being a pedant. I am trying to get answers to basic questions so that I can better glean an alignment. The fact that I have to press so hard for simple answers is ridiculous.

[Sujimichi]

Probably for the same reasons you keep asking: its a social jockeying for power.

This is incorrect. I ask because I want to understand his reasoning and motivation so that I can understand his alignment.

youre allowing this one point to be your crux instead of moving on.

Becuase, while others speak and respond so that I can understand them, he does not.

but look at the level of analysis and look at what he has on the line defending me. Would a scum do this, do you think?

I honestly do not understand any of his "analysis" and find it suspect that someone can claim to. So, yes. I think scum would do this.

unless you think we could be partners? Do you?

I have been fairly transparent that you are in my scum reads.

[Sujimichi]

I honestly do not understand any of his "analysis" and find it suspect that someone can claim to. So, yes. I think scum would do this.

You do not have to understand it or agree with it. But look at the depth at which he is looking.

He has combed Titus' iso for association tells. He's making an argument that I cannot be scum based on how Titus treated me. That's not beginner play, and its not an easy play to make when you are scum. Because it has to be real, or coincidentally apparent. The whole idea of scum theatre is about scum faking these interactions - its a crucial skill because its so hard to do.

Using these cues to hunt for town -not scum but town- is a huge indication that somebody is liklier to be town because scum dont like to clear names and scum cant fake it easily.

UNVOTE:

I will try and re-read TSE without my bias tomorrow. I don't currently agree that he has done as much as you are giving him credit for, but I will look again.

[Sujimichi]

I mean, I win no matter what you do, suji.

If you lynch Truesoul and he flips green, it lends credence to his claim about me.
If you lynch Truesoul and he flips red, all he did was spend his own more valuable life to get a townie killed.
If you lynch elsewhere, that means I've already influenced y,u enough.

Win/Win/Win

I don't like this post.

[Sujimichi]

But is it false?

Your post's veracity isn't what's important. The fact that "you win" when in all three outcomes you could be scum is what concerns me.

[Sujimichi]

AtE:
Replace Out Claim
I’ll always flip Town so leave me alone

I didn't say explain. I said show me where I said that. Show me the posts.

[Sujimichi]

So am I just that good of a scum player who planned this and manipulated the gamestate or am I town?

Because Occam wants a word with you i think

I think Occam would like to explain his razor to you.

[Sujimichi]

Also funny enough.
Suji Unvotes me pretty fast despite them being so confident I’d flip scum.
And some how their scum read convinced them then they also throw shade on them as well.
Not a good look for Suji TBH.

Is this really how you view the game? It's so distorted.

1.) My confidence as to you flipping scum is not high, as it was mostly predicated on PM being scum. I specifically said as town you are a detriment. That's why I am voting you over Menalque and Awoo.
2.) I wasn't convinced of anything other than to take a second look at you. I don't see the harm in doing this.

[Sujimichi]

Trust me.
Suji would have probably threw shade on the “Not a good look for Suji TBH”
I played mafia long enough to know how people react to things.

Apparently not.

[Sujimichi]

VOTE: TSE

[Sujimichi]

Suji has seemed like town to me for a while, but he hasn’t showed up in a long time now so i don’t know if my TR on him is all that relevant anymore.

It's been less than a day since I've been here.

[Sujimichi]

Suji is Scum or like really bad town.
@Suji you should know by now and if it doesn’t take an Einstein to realize this is an all Town Lynch options
The fact your super sure I’m Scum is just LOL.

Perhaps one day you will actually read what I write. It is quite irritating to continue to read you posting and attributing to me things I didn't say.

[Sujimichi]

Unless there was an unvote between the last votecount and now he has been lynched.

[Sujimichi]

GuiltyLion being mafia requires mafia to have put at least two out of three members into the first nomination phase. Where is the reason in that? Not to mention how quickly he was voted to L-1 today. That gives me a bit of pause.

[Sujimichi]

Suji has seemed like town to me for a while, but he hasn’t showed up in a long time now so i don’t know if my TR on him is all that relevant anymore.

It's been less than a day since I've been here.

I would like clarification on your statement. I understand that may not have been clear from my post.

[Sujimichi]

Actually, GL prob is good today

VOTE: GL

What was it that solidified this for you today? I know you said you would entertain and discuss, but it doesn't seem like it took much (if any) discussion.

[Sujimichi]

GuiltyLion being mafia requires mafia to have put at least two out of three members into the first nomination phase. Where is the reason in that?

Titus wanted to be obvtown, so she put herself in the nom pool and hardbussed correspondence. It didn't catch on, and she got slam dunked.

But, she was voting Norweigian at the end of the phase.

[Sujimichi]

This is sort of corraborated by the fact that she awkwardly held onto the read that lynching correspondence was a good thing while she went down in flames.

Where did she do this? I see where she scum read Menalque and tied GuiltyLion and him together, but I don't see her push on GuiltyLion/Correspondence over Norwegian.

[Sujimichi]

Titus, after becoming the consensus lynch, invested most of her time into interacting with or talking about the correspondence/GL slot, and also threw shade on suji once.

And Menalque twice, if you are going to throw that last phrase in there. But, yes, you're right.

[Sujimichi]

So, Correspondence was thrown in there as an absent slot, along with Norweigian who quickhammered D1, in the thought that they either get town lynched (Norweigian) and build some town credibility for Titus and Correspondence, or Correspondence gets lynched and scum lose an absent slot and build some town credibility. It didn't pan out that way, and so Titus tries to distance herself from Correspondence/GuiltyLion but not Norwegian.

That makes sense to me.

[Sujimichi]

think about why GL, an easy mislynchbif town, was not put in yesterday's pool

You don't put mislynch bait in the nomination pool unless there is scum in there. You leave them for the day phase so scum has an easier time dodging the lynch.

So, who is scum between Awoo and Menalque?

[Sujimichi]

You realize that was me disagreeing with your stated reasoning for GuiltyLion being scum, right? Could you summarize any other points or thoughts you have on why GuiltyLion is scum?

[Sujimichi]

GL’s ISO is bad

What is it about his ISO that you find bad?

[Sujimichi]

To clarify: voting GL because bad iso (

very non-commital to everything throughout willing to vote almost everyone seemingly

), TSE read confirmed as being in good faith, not convinced 1v1ing pk today helps town even if he’s scum — and if I’m wrong and he is town then it’s prob actively harmful

This is the main thing

Also the timing of the inactivity isn’t great but is probably NAI

I don't think that bolded statement is true, nor do I think he has been noncommital. He's provided his reads and has voted in line with them.

[Sujimichi]

Or, someone who is actually critically reading the game. What I am saying is factual.

[Sujimichi]

Okay, why isn’t it true? I think he’s voted just about everyone who’s been on the table when it seemed like they might be viable. I think that flexibility and changes as part of a clear thought pattern make sense and generally show town. I think that GL’s seem more opportunistic than that, although I need to in depth his ISO rather than skimming to be sure.

Spoiler: Vote Record

VOTE: Titus

this puts both wagons at L-1

in case a nEE voter sees reason to switch. But I promise I won't let deadline expire with no lynch and I'll be back throughout today in case my vote is needed on nEE

I would like to hear your thoughts on PMysterious, GuiltyLion.

scum

VOTE: PMysterious

lots of robotic posts, on the wrong wagon yesterday and shading the people voting scum, despite just rereading most of the game I still don't feel like I can accurately summarize the general state of his reads

speaking of which here's where I am at (pending a read of the last couple pages but I doubt much will change)

{Joey, Menalque}
{Suji}
{Awoo, Norwegian}
{Creature, Pisskop}
{PM}

VOTE: TrueSoulEnergy

Titus, why did you fail to address my comment on your Correspondence assertion?

Incoherence between ideas/behavior is a clue that their thought process is not genuine & more superficial than they want you to believe. Basically they often have to go "bottom-up"

Town looks incoherent but their processes "does exists" they just aren't very clear, its ''top-down'' so you can always investigate the thought process

@Titus; Why do you scumread nEE?

@Suj Which post? I am under intense stress IRL. I'll comment today.

@Joey, I think GL is more genuine. Nee just sounds like he's trying to lynch not himself and keep his options open on me. GL and I ho way back to my noob days. I feel confident in his ability to see I am town

Ok with this post here
Suj/Joey is a TVS.

Usually Scum, at least when I flip scum in my games, will try and involve their mafia member in a conversation but then distance from another.

So the way that this was setup. I feel like 1 of Suj/Joey was @ed just to add conversation with a mafia member while the other is Town.

@TSE - did you notice that Titus is responding to specifically the two questions asked of her above here?

intent -24 hours

holding to see if anyone does have doubts on me they wanna sort out

can we pause on this? I'm too busy today this is a prodge but I'll be around tomorrow
UNVOTE:

I'm not worried about you but I do want to talk a bit with Awoo if possible and read/digest what I've missed since my last thread read, I wasn't thinking we'd be at hammer time already

Awoo I haven't read since my last few posts so ignore this if you feel you've already addressed it significantly but I want your thoughts on who the wolf team is if we are assuming that this current pool is all town, and also like what actual probability you assign to scum!Menalque compared to scum!TSE because atm I don't grok why you'd have TSE as more town than Menalque

• He could have hammered Norwegian instead of setting up Titus for a lynch. Voted Titus anyway, though expressed that he would not allow a no lynch.
• Vote on PM with his rationale plus overall reads
• Vote TSE and then unvote to prevent the day from ending before he had a chance to dialogue with Awoo.

I don't see non-commitment, nor do I see him willing to vote almost everyone seemingly. He did express an interest in voting pisskop the same day as PM, but if you'll notice the placement of pisskop in his reads, it lines up.

[Sujimichi]

Seems like a rhetorical question. I would obviously prefer a GuiltyLion lynch over myself.

[Sujimichi]

I'm trying to flesh that out right now, which is why I have asked for other player's reasoning on why they think GuiltyLion is scum. Awoo's rationale made sense to me. Menalque's does not at the moment. pisskop does not seem to have any.

If I was forced to vote at the moment, I would vote pisskop.

[Sujimichi]

Then vote

I'm not forced to at the moment.

[Sujimichi]

I'm trying to flesh that out right now, which is why I have asked for other player's reasoning on why they think GuiltyLion is scum. Awoo's rationale made sense to me. Menalque's does not at the moment. pisskop does not seem to have any.

If I was forced to vote at the moment, I would vote pisskop.

So let me get this straight. You're town and your win condition is to lynch the mafia and you are kind of just sitting around like "well if I was FORCED to try to find a mafia I GUESS it would be pisskop"

I’m not sure how that was your take away from my post. I’m not sitting here. I don’t currently scum read GuiltyLion and understanding other player’s rationale as to why he is scum help me better understand GuiltyLion and said player. I also didn’t say “I guess I would vote pisskop”. I said that I would. I don’t see why there is this rush to force me to vote.

[Sujimichi]

I mean if I REALLY HAVE to scumhunt I GUESS I could MAYBE just go with a consensus suspicion but I would have to wait to make sure I don't do anything controversial

I’ve been pretty consistent in my opinion on pisskop since I replaced in.

[Sujimichi]

I need to digest what I just read (particularly what you said about it not being just GuiltyLion’s votes but his assertions on who he would vote [so need to re-read that]) and would like to hear from GuiltyLion.

[Sujimichi]

Suji who is mafia it feels like you are cornered scum and the fact that everyone ignores me but you also gives me the shivers

I’m not entirely sure at the moment. I have some tinfoil theories that I need to debate internally against my rational theories.

[Sujimichi]

Okay so basically your readslist has remained static all game and you just bump people off the bottom of the totem pole? Here's an updated readslist of suji for anyone interested


T
Joey_
GuiltyLion

Creature

TL
Menalque
Awoo

N

SL
NorwegianBoyEE

SL

S
pisskop

S
PMysterious
Titus

This is not true, and I believe I have said as much.

[Sujimichi]

Okay.... but it's my understanding that your position in the game is more or less identical to what I just posted so if that's not true could you please make it more obvious? Skimming your iso you lynched TSE because he didn't answer your questions and today you're soft defending GL and soft pushing pisskop and um like what am I supposed to read that's different?

Post 904 has a more current reads list than the one you are quoting. I am internally debating whether or not I was wrong on joey_ or GuiltyLion. The last game I played, I tunneled on someone too hard and they ended up being town, so I am trying to entertain more possibilities at the moment.

[Sujimichi]

Why only those two?

Again, I have a tinfoil hat theory that I don't really want to discuss at this time. joey_ was my initial "if I am wrong it is here" townread, and he seems to be playing the delicate counterbalance to where the rest of the players are going (see: PM and TSE reads) and was also against the Titus lynch. Awoo made a decent point on GuiltyLion.

I know that I am not mafia (despite everyone except for Joey and Norwegian stating that I am or am likely to be), so even if pisskop is scum, I have to re-evaluate someone and those seem the two most reasonable slots.

[Sujimichi]

Ah you moved creature down before he got mislynched. That's still not a good look.

Joey_ also dropped and Norwegian moved up. I don't know why you aren't accurately representing what I say.

[Sujimichi]

and also is that like a "must be one of them" either-or or a "could be neither, one, or both" or

I don't think it would be both. I guess it is possible it would be neither.

[Sujimichi]

I was saying you were against the PM/TSE lynches. That's why I called it a counterbalance.

[Sujimichi]

I wasn't here for mutant's lynch so it wasn't very instilled in my mind.

[Sujimichi]

Why aren’t you reconsidering awoo? Like if I had to say a townread I think I’m actually most likely to be

wrong

on, I’d say awoo

I TR them more strongly than Norwegian, but also think I have more chance of having just fucked up there, if that makes sense?

No comment at this time.

[Sujimichi]

Thats a pretty convenient answer for someone claiming to want to revisit slots & not using bothering using info that was before their replace-in

Wanting to revist doesn't mean that I have revisited. That was a quick response to a question on what I am processing.

[Sujimichi]

Basically; you don't strategic replace-out from one vote, regardless where it's coming from. There wasn't that much support for a pk lynch that would justify him thinking he would be the flip from your vote

I already stated that my vote would be there. Norwegian was already voting. GuiltlyLion was the counter so vote would likely be there (and is now). Menalque was the vote that would be the hammer vote. So, there was enough stated or obvious support that Menalque voting pisskop would likely lead to him inferring he would be the lynch.

[Sujimichi]

Ah you moved creature down before he got mislynched. That's still not a good look.

Joey_ also dropped and Norwegian moved up. I don't know why you aren't accurately representing what I say.

Ah you moved creature down before he got mislynched. That's still not a good look.

You moved joey and norwegian. I have no comment on this but I am obligated to mention it to accurately represent you.

Thank you.

[Sujimichi]

What is the deadline? It was not in the most recent post from the mod.

[Sujimichi]

There have been a lot of posts since I last checked in. This is going to take me a bit to get caught up on.

[Sujimichi]

Fmpov you’re overwhelmingly likely scum. If, however, I’m wrong, then committing to saying I should be lynched if you flip town is game losing because it would mean losing in lylo. We flip you here and you flip scum then I think we’re golden this game. But if you are just playing one of the worst town games I’ve ever seen then okay, I’m not losing town the game by saying we should always lynch me.

Why aren’t you willing to be honest about this fypov? You’re saying that even from town!you pov that after I flip town that you want them to lynch you in lylo?

Didn't you say something similar about lynching RadiantCowbells tomorrow when you flip green in 2238?

[Sujimichi]

Again, I have a tinfoil hat theory that I don't really want to discuss at this time.

It seems appropriate to discuss now that my tinfoil hat theory was that Menalque was scum who was playing as town leader. That seems to have been disrupted now that RadiantCowbells joined the game.

[Sujimichi]

Menalque's entire tone changed when he was called out as scum by RadiantCowbells. I'm not sure if this is fear or frustration; or, perhaps a mix of both.

[Sujimichi]

Do you have any doubts that I'm coming from a town POV Suji

I'm trying to read through and process the important bits right now. I didn't like Awoo's tunnel focus on me, but I also did not have a scumread on him. There's a lot of back and forth between you and Menalque, and I don't know why, as scum, you would come in and upset the dynamic between Awoo's slot and Menalque when there was a feasibly better track to victory if you were scum.

As of this moment, I have little doubt you are town.

[Sujimichi]

Less sorting you as a player and more sorting your playstyle, why were you reluctant to voice your SR on Menalque?

I had no solid rationale to support my theory and was being scumread by the majority of the players (negative points when trying to persuade the group). When trying to target the town leader (perceived or actual), one needs to come from a strong foundation or not at all.

[Sujimichi]

There have been almost 800 posts since I last visited. Could someone summarize what happened in those posts as I am unlikely to read all of them?

[Sujimichi]

I am most likely voting for Joey_ here.

[Sujimichi]

Everyone in the pool, who do you think the scum are? Whether in or out of the pool

All outside and not you.

So you are positing that mafia put all of themselves in the first nomination phase?

[Sujimichi]

Meh

So does anyone not think it's GL Norway

That requires mafia nominating their entire team in the first nomination phase.

[Sujimichi]

I don't understand the purpose of ensuring one of your team dying.

[Sujimichi]

Ok. Well, obviously it makes sense to the more experienced players so I guess it's a viable consideration.

[Sujimichi]

I have to run two options: One with an all mafia Nomination 1 and one without. The one without all mafia in Nomination 1 that I originally ran overnight has you dropping to mafia with GuiltyLion. Obviously, I need to factor in that you are in the nomination phase right currently.

[Sujimichi]

Transparency wise, i might vote suji more than cirno today because his reads aligns more with mine for tomorrow

How is that?

[Sujimichi]

Not quite what I meant. I haven't provided my current reads outside of those prior to the nomination phase since they do not currently exist.

[Sujimichi]

Suji: I’ve TR him for a long time, doubt i’lø be voting here.

That's not what you said yesterday.

I'm thinking your partner is either GL or Suji here, and i'm feeling much better about Joey/Menalque now that i've seen your hyper aggressive playstyle.

Quite honestly, you haven't openly had me as a townread since post 951.

[Sujimichi]

I don't have a good idea of who to vote in this nomination phase. I don't believe NorwegianboyEE's townread on me.

[Sujimichi]

I'm confused on your actual stance currently.

[Sujimichi]

The only thing I have a strong indication of right now is that Norwegianboy is probably scum. Looking through his posting, he seems to push pisskop's early activity as scummy, but then townleans him for it. It looks like he only voted him once, and that was more of a joke vote. He townreads joey early on, but then actually pushes him as scum. I'm less inclined to believe joey is scum with Norwegian.

Then there is the tinfoil hat theory that all three scum were in the first nomination phase. I think I find that more likely than Norwegian and joey being partners.

VOTE: DrCirno

[Sujimichi]

Then there is the tinfoil hat theory that all three scum were in the first nomination phase.

Is that the position you're gunning for in LYLO after you and Joey vote DrCirno?

I believe that is an assertion that DrCirno made.

[Sujimichi]

I'm a bit suspicious of the dichotomy being presented right now.

It's actually a trichotomy.

[Sujimichi]

suji keeps town voting

This is such a strange comment. Could you clarify what you mean?

[Sujimichi]

UNVOTE:

[Sujimichi]

@suji; it meant voting as town aka like town

Oh, ok then.

[Sujimichi]

VOTE: DrCirno

[Sujimichi]

Boop.

[Sujimichi]

Are you back to townreading me now?

[Sujimichi]

I'm confused then.

[Sujimichi]

Yes, I did. I am confused about why you posted what you did.

[Sujimichi]

Beep.

[Sujimichi]

I have to agree. You've said both Joey and I are scum, and yet you vote for DrCirno. Can you explain?

[Sujimichi]

I'm fairly certain that Norwegian needs to go tomorrow.

[Sujimichi]

I think I would rather win the game.

[Sujimichi]

I don't know, but I know that Norway has come across as extremely scummy this phase.

[Sujimichi]

I think so. He was townreading me for most of it, and then he posited that joey_ and I were partners. Plus what I said about him in 3817.

[Sujimichi]

I mean, GL was always going to be my other lynch.

There were two specific interactions that suggested that Joey/Norway were unlikely to be partners.

1) The part where Norway got really mad at Joey:

I started playing in like springtime this year. I want to get better at the game, but it's not easy when there are personal attacks and rudeness everywhere. You can easily disagree with an opinion without it causing your blood to boil and "getting pissed". If you get so angry from mafia games then i suggest you take a break and breathe deeply in so the "otaku memers" can't hurt you anymore.

2) The part that I won't quote that's like a page ago where Norway said something about not liking people AtEing or something

neither of them feel likely to be SvS. That leaves GL scum in the remaining intersecting universes unless I'm wrong about you.

I’m fine with GuiltyLion first. As I said, I find GuiltyLion/NorwegianBoyEE more likely than joey_

[Sujimichi]

I think I’ll take your stanceflip on me as a complement despite its inaccuracy.

[Sujimichi]

VOTE: GL

[Sujimichi]

That seems to be playing against your win condition if you are mafia and especially against your win condition if you are town.

[Sujimichi]

So, he gave up?

[Sujimichi]

So...either scum nominated all three members D1 or joey_ is scum who argued very hard he couldn't be partners with GuiltlyLion and defended Titus while pushing Norwegianboy.

[Sujimichi]

The issue for me right now is, if joey_ is scum and wanted to lynch Norwegianboy in the nomination phase he would have brought me in, not RadiantCowbells.

[Sujimichi]

Ah, I'm being setup for tomorrow.

[Sujimichi]

What is your confidence level on joey?

[Sujimichi]

I have no doubts so the lynch order is pretty much set.

[Sujimichi]

I'll go ahead and vote if there are no other reservations.

[Sujimichi]

VOTE: joey

[Sujimichi]

I told you it was Norwegianboy.

[Sujimichi]

Alright, I'm going to go second guess myself for awhile. See you all tomorrow.

[Sujimichi]

I don't see a world where I don't vote Norwegianboy tomorrow, it's just that I am really bad at making tough decisions and stress over it a lot. If you want to provide a case, you can, but I don't think it's necessary.

[Sujimichi]

I don't see a world where I don't vote Norwegianboy tomorrow, it's just that I am really bad at making tough decisions and stress over it a lot. If you want to provide a case, you can, but I don't think it's necessary.

Why in the actual hell would you vote me over RC?

I've already laid out my reasons why. You should probably work on building a coherent case on why Awoo/RC is scum and you are town.

[Sujimichi]

like suji do you not find his turnaround on me really weird even to the point of stating i'm "literally the only possibility left"

I agree. I'm not sure what has changed between him posting that you are the towniest of town (listed above me) to certain scum.

[Sujimichi]

He lynched obvtown Menalque.

He led the charge, but he wasn't the only one responsible. If Menalque was obvious enough as town, that wouldn't have happened.

I got put in as the filler slot to the freaking scum theatre on D2.

This is part of my hesitation, but as others have said (I forget who) if scum put two in, why not put all three in? There is similar risk is a scum flip (and you were the quickhammer Day 1 and GuiltyLion was the inactive scum slot). Since Titus and GuiltyLion were both scum, you being scum is not as odd as I originally thought.

He's been aggressively playing against the town's wincon for a long time, getting TR from me because i didn't think scum would be capable of intentionally getting away with playing so anti-town.

Please flesh this out for me. How has he been aggressively playing against town's win condition?

His predecessor Awoo flip-flopped on me and Titus on D2.

Awoo ultimately ended up on Titus though and could have ended up directing the lynch to you just as easily.

I've been kept alive as the less dangerous LYLO mislynch for after Joey.

This is the other part of my hesitation. RC knew that I was agreeing with him on reads, and scum you would probably have included me in the nomination pool.

GL self-voted on D7 and i think it's because he wanted RC to look better from it.

How does this make RC look better?

[Sujimichi]

2: Because i think Suji has a higher town equity than you.

But you didn't before we lynched Joey, and we all lynched Joey so what changed?

[Sujimichi]

I'm not going to quickhammer.

[Sujimichi]

RC & Suji; fuck you both, its not polite to lynch someone who hasn't got the chance to even say a word, especially after a 165+ pages game over 2 months, thats not very courteous

I apologize. It was an impatient and myopic thing to do, and you are justified in your frustration toward me.

[Sujimichi]

Okay, you don't appreciate his tactics, he has an inflated opinion of his ability, and he was wrong. How does that make him mafia?

Leave RadiantCowbells out of your decision for a minute. Since you are now coming from the perspective now that Awoo/RC have to be mafia, and you were fairly strongly townreading Awoo before RC replaced him (I believe, since you discredited Joey_'s deepwolf case on Awoo), I would like for you to explain to me how you view that slot as scum.

[Sujimichi]

1. I don't think that statement is true. I am very likely to vote you as well.
   
2. From your point of view, why does RC seeming to vote you mean he is scum, and not that he is town who is reading you incorrectly?
   
3. You didn't do what I asked.