Newbie 1961 | Trees II | Over

[DrDolittle]

Hello everyone! I'm a bit tired today so I'll catch up tomorrow!

[DrDolittle]

woah woah woah, I believe that takes him to

L-1.

Scary place to be.

I'm gonna unvote to prevent a hammer.

UNVOTE: Suspicious

I believe he's at

L-2

now

pretty awkward unvote, its like gb is trying too hard to be townie

I am also surprised that ya are real-voting already.
Don't get me wrong: I do approve of that.
Just that in yer first newbie ya were really reluctant to vote like ever.

I expect ya to be easy to read once ya start posting, so it's a bit frustrating that ya don't.
I can wait until ya have things to say tho.

not sure i like this reasoning. i think zen is more likely town to push to l-1

Beautiful start.

Anyways, the reason I didn't do an immediate unvote, is because I don't think the others realized we were putting

Suspicious

at L-1/L-2.
Also,

Fancy's

post and mine are 1 minute apart. Gimme slack here.

Zenith's

naked vote against

Suspicious

seemed strange, and I wanna chalk it up to RVS, but the post was barren of any flavour/reasoning/anything.

VOTE: Zenith

I wanna hear from you bud.

isnt that the purpose of rvs?

VOTE: zenith

serious vote for letting the vote get to L-1

eh... lean town on this? for starting an effort to hunt.

Sus's reaction- not that of panic but "gimme a break, ok whats going on?"
RVS pressure gets to people in different ways

Nah
Scum has literally the entire roster to vote during RVS.
Anticipating being RVS voted for having a funny name is one thing, but I see no reason for them to pile up like that.
It's just horribly suboptimal

Also keep in mind that we're still missing a player

i disagree in rvs votes pile up to l-1 all the time, so. its just usually on town because theres more town players

Why did you choose that option over others?

the alternative requires actually putting in effort

Works well for me, nice way out of RVS, been doing it for quite a while, dont see any issues with it (aside from inadvertantly helping put someone at L-1 by page 1)
Also I like my wagons

lean town on this, I quite like this post im not sure why... possibly because i passively agree with vork

[DrDolittle]

gosh tictac reads like some japanese anime adaptation of a country bumpkin and i love it

[DrDolittle]

I think any vote needs to be looked at carefully. It’s our responsibility to see if someone is about to be on L-1. That vote matters a lot more than putting someone in L-4/3. RVSing just to RVS is fine, but RVSing a wagon to L-1 is either wreckless, scummy or both. I wanted an explanation for it, so I voted for them.

leaning scum here actually. its not acknowledging that the read is a weak read and doubling down. sounds like new scum trying to force a vote.

@jam
u didn't ask for an explanation tho?
I'd also expect ya to be angry/annoyed that an L-1 happened yet I'm not really seeing that.

Why would people be angry that l-1 happened?

I was a bit uncomfy with how fast the votes went onto Suspicious, but I feel like his response to the votes seemed very kneejerk-y with the thing about there being a mafia who voted him. It doesn't seem like a real "read" that comes from actually looking for mafia.
[snip]

seems like he's just trying to justify something. Basically: Bailey voted that way as a random vote, so saying that Bailey is somehow responsible for the wagon doesn't seem like it's a genuine attempt to find maf. seems like he's just trying to fos everyone who voted

i think this makes sense please tell me if it doesn't

Like this is actually a really good read.

@Fancy it’s just how I play, will get more confident later but i don’t see a point of having hard reads at this point of the game already (maybe it’s different for forum mafia games, i’m used to live games)

january might be my top town read rn.

Yeah yeah I saw it, I don't feel like answering it yet tho. It forces a half baked read out of me.

Try again later.

you dont want to answer because you might be scumread? ok

My position is that I voted for Zenith because I wanted to hear why they put Suspicious on L-1. To me, without any context, that decision was scummy.

I’m not answering more questions from you about this.

Why didn't you just ask then? I think the vote is not really in good faith.

Voting for suspicious wasn't a mistake, it was RVS. I intended to put him at L2 but Vorkuta beat me to it by a few seconds. I'm fine with putting someone at L1, though it's probably best done with a disclaimer to notify everyone that they are at L1 and to post intent to hammer before proceeding. Because of the quick unvotes, this wasn't necessary.

I'm fine with leaving my vote where it is for now. Suspicious comes off as fake, which pings my scrumdar.
What's wrong with an early L-1?
If scum were on the wagon, would they be more likely to stay there? Or would they be more likely to unvote for potential town points?

[snip - suspicious quote]

Goes from explaining why concerned over a possible quicklynch to dismissing it as highly unlikely in the same post. Things like this concern me. His play so far feels icky, and doesn't come across as town trying to hunt for scum at all. It feels fake.

[/quote]

I buy the reasoning. I think the lack of attn on the wagon count as a new player also suggests town.
Why do you think sus is fake? I know you quoted smth, but like explain more?

[DrDolittle]

like I guess how do you know its not just rambling and scum indicative, zen

[DrDolittle]

ok i gotta start reading faster

[DrDolittle]

[Snipped non game related work information --P ]

 
Tictac 135 anger at no response to question feels a little feigned.
Zen’s OMGUS is so cute it probably is town
Suspicious 172 is a play on semantics. But in general I actually like the aggression from both parties in the end of page 8 start of 9
Tictac’s 206 LOL case on Jam is really ehhhhh. I don’t like it at all!
GB’s 212 is fence-sitting on that case also concerns me.
Oh god the login time tells are probably worse.. Like it’s not bad, it’s more like frowned upon
But I don’t like Jam’s defense on 246 which is “I have no reads”
@zen effort is very AI imo.

[DrDolittle]

crap I totally messed up my post mod please deleate

[DrDolittle]

this is why you shouldn't work and play mafia together

[DrDolittle]

Tictac 135 anger at no response to question feels a little feigned.

Zen’s OMGUS is so cute it probably is town

Suspicious 172 is a play on semantics. But in general I actually like the aggression from both parties in the end of page 8 start of 9

Tictac’s 206 LOL case on Jam is really ehhhhh. I don’t like it at all!

GB’s 212 is fence-sitting on that case also concerns me.

Oh god the login time tells are probably worse.. Like it’s not bad, it’s more like frowned upon

But I don’t like Jam’s defense on 246 which is “I have no reads”

@zen effort is very AI imo.

[DrDolittle]

GB’s 301 is bad. It’s much ado about nothing, but in a way that is too scum flowery

Tictac v Jam might have scum in it
Sus v Zenith is prolly TvT

Just based on the last few pages of interaction alone

Uhhhhh
I dont agree with these much at all

mmm

I'm not scum.

towniest post in the game rn

Sure
Click on the activity overview button

yeah vork is town

[DrDolittle]

actually I did a quick summary of tictac's iso, and the progression for all his posts are there, even though individual posts do ping me. regardless Im leaning town there

[DrDolittle]

here's where i am at, I think?

{january, vorkuta}
{Zenith, Tictac}
{skitter, Suspicious}
{jamelia, GeorgeBailey}

[DrDolittle]

funny i was thinking the same
what do you want to talk about

[DrDolittle]

I voted because that's literally the only way to make progress @D1.

Jokes aside, Sus's reaction to said wagon and the follow up interrogation gets him townpoints from me.
But like... come on guys, show a tiny bit of common sense with these questions

What specifically about his reaction makes you give him town points?

If suspicious is scum, I could see him as an easy early bus for easy distance. But the wagon moved pretty fast, so perhaps his partner got scared and backed off?

I dont particularly like this post, for a couple of reasons:

1. I agree with vork that sus had a good reaction to his wagon, so the fact that you dont seem to see it is a little ??? To me

2. Do you really think scum bus their partners p1?

Am liking the recent content from tictac. Think I'll sheep for now and see where this goes.

VOTE: Jamelia
L-2

Oh dear

like out of the posts you highlighted out of zen I don't think any of them are particularly scummy. meanwhile I like his L-1, and the fact that he thought it was L-2... I don't think scum makes that kind of mistakes, and his other posts feel fairly good as well?

[DrDolittle]

Why is zenith on the same tier as tictac?

Why might i be scum?

It's mutually exclusive. I town- on zen and tictac.

I think you're scum because some of your reads in your catchup make me go like ???, I don't like your defense case on jam at all, and I think ceejay has scum equity.

[DrDolittle]

like out of the posts you highlighted out of zen I don't think any of them are particularly scummy. meanwhile I like his L-1, and the fact that he thought it was L-2... I don't think scum makes that kind of mistakes, and his other posts feel fairly good as well?

I didnt higlight everything i didnt like wrt zenith

The sheep was awful:

- no indication of townreading tictac
- no indication of scumreading whoever the vote was on
- tictac's vote was a sudden departure from the major topics of conversation at the time (iirc zenith was getting wagoned?) And instead of engaging with any of that, zenith lolsheeps - it reads like he didnf really know how to interact with what was happening

are we reading the same post? tictac's 209 was a fairly solid case? I don't see what you are saying here at all.

[DrDolittle]

like I think I'm more wary about how much our reads and opinions diverge, its as if we are reading different games. your case of jam is that its town-cocky because they're sure the flip will make X look ridculous. I've seen caught-scum who wants to disengage or freeze up on the spot after being scumread do that all the time. In fact, I've done it. despite your experience you are saying that it is a townread makes me wary

CJ has dodged every question by saying that he doesn't want to answer for fear of shaping opinions on himself. that's scummy.

[DrDolittle]

I can see tictac, but I dont know how you are confident jamelia is town. I think she's more on the scummy side tbh

[DrDolittle]

let's do this
VOTE: GeorgeBailey

Like I'm fairly zen is town. I see a lot of what he's doing which is perceived as scummy as what I did early on as town in the newbie queue back in the days.

[DrDolittle]

A towncase on Jam could be helpful if that's true.

-indignation at being tunneled
- confidence that you'll look like ridiculous after he flips (i think it's hard for scum to fake this sort of cockiness, that the person pushing them will look silly upon a townflip knowing that *there won't be a townflip*
- despite pressure resolutely sticking to his pov for things like his original zenith vote. When you pushed him over it he said things along the lines of 'i dont care what you think, that's my position' and i think that's townie

here's your case on town-skit. its attitude based and player dependent, much less so alignment dependent.

FYI i think resolutely sticking to pov and not listening is clear scum strat. Ico did this to great success in a recent mini.

[DrDolittle]

Ok why is zen town?

i literally said in the post? as well as my previous posts of what has town pinged me?

[DrDolittle]

GB you have nothing new after 181?
I really really dislike the zen wagon

[DrDolittle]

Like i think it's hard to fake the indignation that jamelia displays when they say the egg will be on tictac's face when jamelia flips town

They're very confident that they *won't* flip red, and i think it's hard for scum to fake that confidentally

Idts. Posts like this are not AI IMO. Like being confident you yourself wont flip red is the first rule of mafia

[DrDolittle]

meanwhile I like his L-1, and the fact that he thought it was L-2...

This is the main thing that i see in that post beyond 'i dont think his posts are scummy' which is ... not helpful?

I'm not sure why this is townie either

Scum pays more attn to Lynch-related details. I think this is a huge tell.
Meanwhile, Zen has done nothing of sorts to ping me as scum; his reaction to pressure "I am town" is deeply townie too me.
And there are certain posts that I liked in particular I recall; let me ISO quickly

[DrDolittle]

UNVOTE: .

I actually quite like this unvote. Scum-Jamelia would have little reason to come in, and can use the excuse to continue to lurk the game state... hoping for a lynch on zen. (unless zen-jam are partners, which is probabilistic ally unlikely)

[DrDolittle]

I pulled out 3 that I like in particular, skitter

I could turn it around on you and tell you to read my ISO for your answers. I won't, but maybe this will help you see how ridiculous you are being?

This reads genuine at the impasse that sus and zen is going through. Like zen is trying to sort and read suspicious and its not working out and vice versa. The interaction feels tvt to me.

I mean seriously you're not making any sense.

You asked me a question i had already answered, so I answered it again. Somehow that wasn't good enough, so I answered a third time with clarification to make it as clear as possible. Like, there's nothing to defend there, and how am I dodging when I answered the same ducking question 3 times??

If anyone is insulting you, it's you insulting yourself. You're like a broken record of falsely accusing me of doing the things that you have done. I could go through and point out a list of such activity, but I'm not really in the mood to re-read that mess of a back and forth right now. Maybe I'll get around to that eventually if someone insist, but right now I've got a fever and dealing with your crazy isn't helping.

And the interactions post is not feigned - it has progression to the escalation of frustration.

Lynching inactive players or null reads is a pretty bad idea, and should be a last resort, done only to prevent a no-lynch if there are no scum reads. Even then, lynching someone for inactivity isn't much better than having a day end in no-lynch. Is much preferable for inactive players to get replaced rather than lynched.

I like this too. I think New-scum doesn't back out of lynching anyone on the table, and targeting lurkers and inactives are an especially good tastey

[DrDolittle]

sorry i have to bounce but can engage more tonight/tomorrow

[DrDolittle]

Sorry guys. My IP address was blocked and I just got home but I'm tired. I'll try to wake up early tomorrow and say something intelligent

[DrDolittle]

so sorry i am here. can anyone give me a tldr as I catch up

[DrDolittle]

oops duplicated lol

TL;DR
suspicious and jamelia are masons so everyone wants to vote bailey

Thanks January. Yeah sounds like a good lynch independent on mason claims.

PEDIT: Do you have an alternative lynch proposition, Jamelia?

[DrDolittle]

dolittle do u mind answering this?

skitter is one of the best players on site. if you are just +rand scumreading her, its must better to let her do her thing. With that said I think I'm more scumreading George bailey anyhow.

I play mafia very much like a numbers game. It's not flashy, but it gets the job done.

[DrDolittle]

don't seem to scumread tictac** mybad

january really mindmelds with me. Knowing you are town and looking at it FYPOV, I'm not seeing why you townread tictac. Maybe i'm missing something that I'd hope you explain.

I believe scum!DrD comes into the game and refutes January to separate themselves and to not be on the “jam train” when I flip green.

I do think Tictac is town. I think they’re tunneled in this meta lynch on me because it’d be very impressive to lynch someone based on the little game-info in the game.

I don't think you were close to being lynched, and I find it unfortunate, but understandable that you claimed your role.

For SE teaching purposes, since this is a semi-open I don't think there's no need to out your partner unless necessary, since if no-one cc's, then you are essentially cleared. Someone can tell me if I'm wrong tho

I'm unconvinced on your Tictac-town reasoning here. I think your reasoning rather more points to him as scum?

[DrDolittle]

I agree that January still looks very very town

[DrDolittle]

Bailey's flailing so hard and voting conf town in 579. This is flipping red

[DrDolittle]

I wouldn't have minded dying to prove you wrong. You're just an ass.

i dont get it tho you didnt need to die to prove him wrong, he was already proved wrong by you claiming + he could just be scum?

[DrDolittle]

Tomorrow I'll take {tictac/DDL/skiiter/febuary} for a spin and see how that fares.

that's a lot of people people you want spun buddy boy

[DrDolittle]

Also if I wanted to vote for the sake of lynching, I'd go for DDL who's been quite absent.

ew I literally told you my internet has been ip blocked, and this is consistent with my activity in all my games.

[DrDolittle]

maybe i gave vork too much leniency this game because i like him. i think its a classic bailey partner.

[DrDolittle]

661 is to jamelia, jan.

@zen
because scum with lots of pressue applied behaves irrationally.

I'm posting from a different location? Frankly I find your distrust a little insulting.

[DrDolittle]

yes but I'm not going to fake rl reasons just to be townread shithead.

also why are you voting your townread

[DrDolittle]

being confused is a reason to TR zen but a reason to scumread bailey? I don't think this makes sense.

thank you tictac for the misrep.

these two situations are completely different and you know it. One is unprompted day 1 mistake, on something scum should be focused on which is votes and lynches.
the second is mistake under pressure, typically involving throwing votes around wildly hoping something sticks, which is a very scummy endeavor.

[DrDolittle]

I defended zen because his posts pinged me as town during my catchup. Although I didn't really like his eod posts, and today's skirting around.

@Zen

what's your read on the game state and who is scum?

I only glanced at vork vs skitter, but I'll give it another in depth read later. I'm really not sure how to think about it since I've never seen vork so aggresive and im scared.

But I'm trying to figure out how does january play a role in all this. I don't see vork's (jan, skit) pair, both independently from jan and the partnership doesn't make sense. Plus 734 is very town.

[DrDolittle]

im feeling low energy

[DrDolittle]

yeah sorry im not really feeling like playing mafia rn

[DrDolittle]

- focus on ddl, i think it's scummy of him to be so quiet rn and not take a stance

like, I cant even take a stance because i haven't waded through your exchange with vork seriously.

[DrDolittle]

sigh ill try again tonight

[DrDolittle]

I'm feeling it rn here I go

[DrDolittle]

<3

Distancing from your scum partner- I dig it

Ok. So I thought I was going to vote vork right away from this post, because it did come out of nowhere. However, after reading his next post 716 with the little bit of nonsense ft Jan asking for a new partner, and keeping skit, I could see that it is possible it is town!vork coming from good faith attempt.

*sighs*
I'm pretty sure it was self-implied, but fine
It's concerning because it doesn't have (or at least I can't find) the markings/intentions of "town-solvey" skitter.

[snip]

Now for the meaty stuff, which is what I was hoping for
I don't like how the crux of your defense is "a mechanically optimal or otherwise perfect player wouldn't do any of the things" and how you're shifting the definitions. I am presenting a very plausible scenario, backed up with bits of evidence, slightly liberal assumptions, and my own personal experience.

Whereas you're basically demanding "screenshots of their scumPT" levels of evidence necessary for my points to have any validity in your eyes.
Which is a scum!skitter play

Again, I found [snip] could be in a good faith response... and putting myself into vork's shoes, I can see where he's coming from. I can see a world that he is town. Even though, I really don't like the subsequent push using GB's reads. GB's eod reads were hot garbage as he even voted suspicious.

Either way, bailey's dying declaration is not the crux of my read,

more like a convenient detail that I'm choosing to incorporate into my narrative.

a) can you, like, quote this declaration
b) i find the bolded to scummy

why do you find the bolded scummy?

Continuing on...

[DrDolittle]

although right now vork is just flat out imagining stuff...
i think it's just that he genuinely believes it though bc i don't see mafia wanting me lynched so bad that they just make stuff up

There is a world difference between making up stuff and coming up with a plausible scenario that one believes in. This is why I'm having such a hard time sorting vorkuta because both of these are possible.

I dont know what you're talking about
I dont know what 'demanding scum pt screenshot levels of evidence' means exactly, or how i'm meant to be doing that

I don't think it's that hard to understand at all. Feels a bit gaslight-y. Sure vorkuta's case is not 100 percent watersealed but I feel like what you are doing is asking a bunch of questions and trying to catch him off guard rather than responding in good faith idk... It's different than [redacted] evidence.

I think one of the ways scum!skitter plays is by shutting down lines of questioning.
Town!skitter is much more openminded, willing to make the logical assumptions/leaps to see where a train of thought would lead for the sake of scumhunting- ie "talk to me more about XXX", and deals with disagreements pleasantly in the form of "I'm not sure that...." or "I don't think...."
Scum!skitter is more interested in redirecting the gameflow and SUBTLY shutting down uncomfortable lines of inquiry and one of the more effective ways I've seen her do it is by inflating the level of proof/evidence necessary for her to acknowledge a claim to a level that is much higher than what town!skitter would require to join along on the journey.

I buy this. Actually up to this point, I felt the same way in this exchange, in that the burden of proof that you place on vork is absurd, where as he is really in good faith trying to engage you.

in case I wasn't clear previously: if it's down to lynching skitt or vork, I currently prefer lynching skitt.
it does occur to me tho, that with nightkills being tied up with getting rid of the masons, lynching town!skitt is 100% what scum!vork would need to do if doesn't want to be at lylo w her, which he would not want.
so i guess what I'm trying to say is: skitt & vork. If ya guys are in a tvt, ya need to work it out cause it's fairly disasturous to gamestate if that's the case.

my good man, if you do succeed in getting me lynched today i'm going to do everything in my ability to make sure you're next, just letting you know

I'll add that I don't think threats like this are constructive if ya town.
Ya in a category of players whose reads I actually would listen to postmortem if ya flip town.
I need them to accurately represent your view on what is true.

this was a really really big post about nothing at all. Actually its a bit worse in that it feels like tictac is trying to butter up to both sides. I actually scumlean tictac here.

[DrDolittle]

with regards to 798

skit - i get why you say you have an ethical or whatever dislike for tic’s read on jamelia. i don’t think i ever agreed with the actual read, but my evaluation was based on whether I thought tictac would make that argument as town or as mafia. basically, even if u find the read to be bad or unfounded or immoral - do you think he would have made that argument as scum?

not to me, but scum makes these type of arguments more often IMO because its easy and objective and doesn't require a whole ton of thinking?

i think vork's arguments are kinda ridiculous and nonsensical and i'm not sure why i'm the only one who sees that; i'm kinda confused why people are treating them like they have merit

There are nuggets of merit in vork's post. I think I'm concerned about other ~reasons~

i think 791 was moonlogic and word salad, but ok

> Explain?

Fair enough, i hope you feel better soon, plz take care of yourself

thank you, that's really kind of you.

I think this would be more what I'm looking for. Ya always informed about your own align so can't really compare attitudes w ya defending Jam there.
I don't at all doubt that ya do in fact have moral views that affect yer play.
I'm specifically looking for that tone we spoke of from yer townself.
Sorry if I was unclear earlier.

Other than that, I think I'll wait for a doc-cathup before proceeding.

I'm here. I don't understand why my being here matters, or what's the purpose of the rest of 842?

VOTE: Vork L-1
@Vork
Please respond to #805.

Explain why the change?

[DrDolittle]

I'm not hammering anything before the replacer catches up, fyi.
doc being quiet rn is worriesome.
more from me later tonight, hopefully.

Tomorrow plz:

- vork
- focus on ddl, i think it's scummy of him to be so quiet rn and not take a stance
- zenthi because he's strawmanning to the point that i think he's deliberately misunderstanding me

is there any other reason why you are scumreading me?

i actually want to flush this out a bit more.

[DrDolittle]

im actually overall just still pretty confused.

[DrDolittle]

vork engage with me. do you find january independently scummy or is she scummy purely by association with skitter?

skitter who's vork's partner?

[DrDolittle]

Vork you didnt answer my question in is Jan independly scummy outside of skit scum to you.

[DrDolittle]

@ Jan I say I'm confused as town often so I iso myself to prove it. I did it in open 776, a redacted game and here in a marathon game super clearly
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
It's not an AI thing for me.

[DrDolittle]

You also said you are giving her a hard time to try to read skitter better? Plus having scum equity could be anywhere below null. Like wo skits flip if how independently scummy is jan?

[DrDolittle]

I'm trying to assess if you are truly having read or just OTP scum blindly tunneling skitter

[DrDolittle]

Yeah I remember that. That's your 30 30 30 10 or something

[DrDolittle]

But didnt that again hinge on CJ and thus skitter being scum? Or I'm confusing your arguments

[DrDolittle]

Yes I can but I am on mobile so I'll do it later at home. Cause work IP is still spam blocked

[DrDolittle]

@skitt already listed posts in 797
@doc i was starting to feel bad about the skitt push and wanted ya to commit to a stance before pushing further.
it's not super relevant now tho. I'm fine sheeping conftown on general principles.
I'm feeling kinda tired and not super courteous, but whatevs.

intent to hammer

i still want skitter lynched and i think there's a very high chance that this wagon will be flipping town. i think vork HAS towntold and i genuinely don't believe anything skit has done has struck me as especially towny.

I dont it it why are you guys willing to hammer vork when you think it would flip town

[DrDolittle]

But i currently do not like your support of vork or your tictac scumlean

why is it that i could only be town if i support you? that's awfully shady

[DrDolittle]

you're utlizing the same tactic: make up bs to push people
*why* you're doing it i don't think is relevant
you haven't really shown that i've taken it out of context either

now if you can show me you making up bs to push people as town i'd view that as a reason to view your current push on me as being less scummy
god-awful, sure, but less ai

as of right now i only have examples of scum!you doing it

This is completely reframing the narrative (or some other fallacy) where you directly say what vork is doing is garbo.

vork i feel like it's hard to respond to you because you're making up things and i can't prove negatives

This is like the stuff that one cannot respond to.

He's doing the same thing here, using overinflated rhetoric and making up stuff to push me

but the thing is I don't think vork did this, especially the inflated rhetoric part. Like I think if anything its that his arguments are in good faith and i can see where it comes from.

I think after rereading I'm on #teamvork

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: skitter30

[DrDolittle]

@drdo
Where has skitter demanded scum pt screenshot levels of evidence? If you can find where she has clearly done this, then I'll be willing to vote her with you.

in my quotes 937, when skit responds with asking vork to do stuff that almost cannot be done, i think that constitutes the "scum pt screenshot level of evidence". To me it's pretty clear what it means, and I find skitter skittering around and asking "what does that meaaaaan?" scummy.

but fine I'll take you up for a reread with that in mind later.

like, the greatest weakness of town is people working at cross purposes. If I can make that not be a thing, that's worth some amount of personal agency.

Ya didn't think it was weird when I offered to lynch january on day 1. Why is this different?

This is exactly what scum rb said in mini normal 2046.

I don't even remember that you offered to lynch january on day 1... was january your town read at that point?

[DrDolittle]

im not interested in lynching zenith at all.

[DrDolittle]

like, the greatest weakness of town is people working at cross purposes. If I can make that not be a thing, that's worth some amount of personal agency.

no this is not a post that says "hey follow conf town". this is a post that says "hey I want to switch a wagon but I dont have an excuse. let me come up with one, and call it im following town"

[DrDolittle]

actually i also don't like vork's willingness to switch to zen considering he's been pushing (jan,skitter) the whole time.

[DrDolittle]

because i don't understand why he looks townie to you rn

because i can see a world where he's making a good faith town-sorting case against you.

[DrDolittle]

hmm could it be vork/tictac?

[DrDolittle]

Spoiler: Context

UNVOTE:
well ok then.

I'll sheep u then. Make it count.

dunno if it actually makes sense to override conftown or allow influence from others tho

.

I do still tr january.

i dunno if that should be allowed to matter tho

@susp plz read her ISO and decide if ya still want that when it's not her vs Jam anymore.
I feel like she has towntold loads.

I'm not hammering anything before the replacer catches up, fyi.

doc being quiet rn is worriesome.
more from me later tonight, hopefully.

@skitt already listed posts in 797
@doc i was starting to feel bad about the skitt push and wanted ya to commit to a stance before pushing further.
it's not super relevant now tho.

I'm fine sheeping conftown on general principles.

I'm feeling kinda tired and not super courteous, but whatevs.

intent to hammer

like, the greatest weakness of town is people working at cross purposes. If I can make that not be a thing, that's worth some amount of personal agency.

no this is not a post that says "hey follow conf town". this is a post that says "hey I want to switch a wagon but I dont have an excuse. let me come up with one, and call it im following town"

I have zero clues on how ya would think that.

the context provided exactly supports my statement...

[DrDolittle]

PEDIT 972 is ???

[DrDolittle]

i might vote vork

[DrDolittle]

because i don't understand why he looks townie to you rn

because i can see a world where he's making a good faith town-sorting case against you.

like i guess theres a world where he's also not making a good faith town-sorting case

[DrDolittle]

Ddl i really dont like ur trajectory here

why not?

[DrDolittle]

here's where i am at, i think:
skit > vork >>> zen
so if a skit wagon doesn't get support, then I guess I can shift over.

+ I don't like how vork is playing after his aggression didn't pan out.

[DrDolittle]

Because i still dont understand why u think vork's more likely to be making a good faith case than not

? because vork's posts echo'ed with my thoughts as well. And I am making a good faith case to sort u

[DrDolittle]

i could see a world where yes, but i dont know whether what's the odds I'd bet it at.

[DrDolittle]

But I think the svs probability is higher than normalized tvt probability, imo.
Pedit: svt > svs > tvt
[adjusted for count normalization]

[DrDolittle]

im monitoring the thread. i'll switch to vork if needed; but i do think skit is scum here.

[DrDolittle]

Hello I'm still here. Actually waiting on Jan/zen to check in, but I'll hammer before sleep if needed.

[DrDolittle]

Currently the only person i'm townreading, and am probably keeping out of my lynch pool is tictac.

I don't like this. You had the same issue with tictac flipflopping and now you've lock towned him while you are scumreading jan. I think the whole interaction of you and tictac is weird, and you two are my highest equity scum pair.

I still think your attack on vork yesterday is unfounded, and now with vork's flip I know his case on you is in good faith

[DrDolittle]

I also dislike how you stepped off the pressure on vork yesterday as you "convinced" tictac to flip.

[DrDolittle]

i think your read on me is also not in good faith? this game and that open (bless that game) is very different both in terms of circumstance and mechanics. i cant see your read from that game transferring over here.

[DrDolittle]

let me get back to you tonight skit! but in short
- Im townreading jan
-Backing off vork seems to me that you weren't committed.
- Reasons are not related to the open but I cant talk about it still
- I think tictac's list is actually scummy. and i you pushing that is scummy.

[DrDolittle]

Tic tac did you just quote everything Jan said

[DrDolittle]

When you have time, i would appreciate an elaboration on why you're townreading jan and why you think tictac's list is scummy

It's not that i wasnt committed to vork so much as:
- i wanted people (jan in particular) to flesh out the townread so i gave room for that
- i apparently dont like to commit to things and get spooked easily (esp when wagons are growing faster than i expected)

I dont get why you think scum!me backs off there if i'm aiming for a vork mislynch

"Ruling" out scum-pairs is oft a scum used technique to almost force lynches without seeming so. I.e. vork flipped town (tictac scum would know this), therefore, here is the potential lynch options for today. It looks natural, and is a way to push votes without thinking. Plus I don't think it's a very good POE in the first place.

let me know what you think of tictac's post on jan town before I provide mine.

dw i get you my ex girlfriend also said the same thing about how she "apparently dont like to commit to things and get spooked easily (esp when our relationship is growing faster than i expected)"

[DrDolittle]

am feeling concerned that this game is stagnating. Come on people its lylo lets get scum

[DrDolittle]

zen whats ur reads

[DrDolittle]

CJ could have easily unvoted buddy.zen in 164.
-> I still think skitt+zen is ruled out.

i dont get this at all.

frankly that's my feeling on you most of the game. i dont really understand the logical progression of your reads. like you post something then come to a conclusion that i find completely unattainable.

[DrDolittle]

The thing is, I think it's just skit tictac scum.

[DrDolittle]

They're both subtly coordinating setting up for my mislynch rn

[DrDolittle]

?? Whta the fuck zen

[DrDolittle]

Unvote before potential scum skit hammers?

[DrDolittle]

you are literally voting because you're indifferent. Like you have absolutely apathy for the game. well fuck you because i care about the game and I want a scum lynch so if you can hold your horse that would be fantastic.

this whole game you're playing like absolute scum and you're only getting away with things because people think you play the newbie card. I wouldn't be surprised if you are second scum with either skit or jan.

[DrDolittle]

actually im just gonna

requesting replacement

. im not in the right set of mind to play mafia.

[DrDolittle]

Zen playing with you as scum was an excruciating experience. Like we literally had two chances to win directly: once at end day 2 hammering skit when she was at L minus 1 when jan voted and, the getting vork for an easy lylo.

And second when literally Jan said day 3 she was willing to vote skit. But no, at day 3 you decide, instead of doing fuck all like you did all game, you decide to bus on lylo, with the read "ho hum I guess voting anyone is the same", putting me at L minus 1and thereby clearing 6 mafia possible teams without me on it. I stress again when a town is openly going for another town.

I dont like playing scum and the sole saving grace is you're like on a small team and its fun to plot together in cameraderie. But your complete lack of theory + the fact that you wont acknowledge it + your blatant misplays day 2 and 3 + you literally blaming me for ???, when I had to drag myself through the mud to pull you out of getting lynched made this game unplayable for me.

Like it feels like I'm back at eleventh grade doing a group project by all alone and then someone who doesnt even know what's going on coming in to criticize you. That fucking sucked, dude.