Newbie 1961 | Trees II | Over

[tictac]

heyo
VOTE: iamveryserious

[tictac]

VOTE: zenith
this vote is not for very serious.
it is a serious vote tho

pedit: meeh
VOTE: Bailey

[tictac]

In a 9-player game, I favor the odds that scum threw in a vote to follow along the wagon.

that wagon composition looks like the set of people who happened to be online during those 15 min.
I suppose it's technically true that any random grouping of 4 players is likely to have scum in it at this point.

I do get beetlejuicy vibes from Zenith naked vote tho, like he seems reluctant to post, yet wanted to be on that wagon.

Bailey unvote looks more like he wanted to look scared of L-1 than actually being scared.
I think actually scared person is more likely to quickly unvote than take time to write a post about being scared.

Zen & serious: How much mafia experience do ya have?

[tictac]

balley was rvs-vote
fancy wasn't hiding in a crowd because the vote wasn't in vogue before he voted.
vor and zen are the ones who might qualify for what ya talking about.
why ya not voting one of them?

[tictac]

ok then

[tictac]

I don't think there's anything wrong w that.
that's why I said 'ok'

[tictac]

Zen & serious: How much mafia experience do ya have?

VOTE: Zenith
I do like my questions answered.

@Balley I'd like yer answer to this as well.

[tictac]

Zen & serious: How much mafia experience do ya have?

VOTE: Zenith
I do like my questions answered.

@Balley I'd like yer answer to this as well.

@january u too. Also welcome.

[tictac]

from Jamelias profile:
Last visited:17 Oct 2019, 16:31
that's in my local time so about 4 hours ago.

I feel like him just having a single post is scum-indic for him.

[tictac]

I am also surprised that ya are real-voting already.
Don't get me wrong: I do approve of that.
Just that in yer first newbie ya were really reluctant to vote like ever.

I expect ya to be easy to read once ya start posting, so it's a bit frustrating that ya don't.
I can wait until ya have things to say tho.

[tictac]

Don't talk about ongoing games - You may not talk to each other about this game outside of threads I have created for this purpose. You may not talk about other ongoing games in this thread.

[tictac]

@january any exp in other formats then?

pedit: ye. I talked about yer

first newbie

[tictac]

sorry. I probs should have reminded ya of that rule since I was talking meta and ya new..

[tictac]

@jam
u didn't ask for an explanation tho?
I'd also expect ya to be angry/annoyed that an L-1 happened yet I'm not really seeing that.

[tictac]

@Zenith

: I still want to hear an answer to my question

Do you have experience with mafia?

This really does not strike me a difficult question to answer honestly, or even dishonestly.
It's annoying as fuck that ya keep dodging it. What is your motivation for doing so? Are you not reading the thread so didn't see it? Are you waiting to find out what answer I'd prefer before you do?

However, I'm getting tired of the holding pattern so..

Beautiful start.

Anyways, the reason I didn't do an immediate unvote, is because

I don't think the others realized

we were putting

Suspicious

at L-1/L-2.

I would think that is more reason to immediately unvote, not less. If ya are town.
This sounds more like justifying the actions of scum!you as not silly, than explaining town thought process.

Also,

Fancy's

post and mine are 1 minute apart. Gimme slack here.

I agree post 52 here. focus on function vs focus on appearance. your focus was on appearance.
I'll add that ya didn't react to fancys unvote at all even when it made your post wholly unnecessary, which makes me think ya really wanted those townpoints.

Zenith's

naked vote against

Suspicious

seemed strange, and I wanna chalk it up to RVS, but the post was barren of any flavour/reasoning/anything.

VOTE: Zenith

I wanna hear from you bud.

Spoiler: Zenith posts for context

woah woah woah, I believe that takes him to

L-1.

Scary place to be.

I'm gonna unvote to prevent a hammer.

UNVOTE: Suspicious

I believe he's at

L-2

now

What's wrong with an early L-1?
If scum were on the wagon, would they be more likely to stay there? Or would they be more likely to unvote for potential town points?

FOS

@ Fancy and GeorgeBailey.

I voted because that's literally the only way to make progress @D1.

Jokes aside, Sus's reaction to said wagon and the follow up interrogation gets him townpoints from me.
But like... come on guys, show a tiny bit of common sense with these questions

What specifically about his reaction makes you give him town points?

If suspicious is scum, I could see him as an easy early bus for easy distance. But the wagon moved pretty fast, so perhaps his partner got scared and backed off?

I feel like in a format like this, it would be super easy for someone to accidentally hammer. I believe keeping someone at L-2 would have been sufficient pressure, L-1 can cause people to

really

panic

(snip)
Er kinda. It was more to say "woah wtf,

who let this get to L-1

". I still think Zenith is a bit suspicious for letting it get to that. But

reading his other post

s, I think it was still

more of a mistake

.

Nothing in Zeniths posts even hinted at L-1 possibly being a mistake.
You jumping to that conclusion looks like ya assumed benign intent because of informed POW or unreasoned defence because he is your buddy.

However

in his next post zen changes his stance and didn't intend to put sus at L-1 but at L-2 (which ya said would be reasonable),like ya gave him an out he didn't think of himself. I think this is a mild point against you guys having daytalk.

All in all, I do agree with

Jamelia

. Don't get me wrong, I love how active you are @

FancyPants

(I really gotta step it up) but you're being super aggressive. (95) And I dont think a lot of good is coming from it.

I disagree strongly here. I certainly feel a lot better about Jam after having seen how he responded to that kind of pressure. Still, this

is

a newbie so let's keep that in mind.

Tictac

is the only one who seems scumlean to me. Because of 45, which is a bit of a stretch. But your vote is still on

Zenith

, and I wanna know why.

Is it still because he didn't answer your question?

Ya. At the time of yer post Zen had not posted at all after my vote. At the time I voted him I thought ya were scummier, but thought a vote might get him to answer the fucking question. His response to yer post puts him in about equal footing w you scumwise, so I think I'l keep voting him.

Damn, just realized Zenith never actually followed up on his reason for a naked vote.

@Zenith

could you at least clarify please?

Putting someone at L-1 so early is pretty damn scary.

Voting for suspicious wasn't a mistake, it was RVS. I intended to put him at L2 but Vorkuta beat me to it by a few seconds. I'm fine with putting someone at L1, though it's probably best done with a disclaimer to notify everyone that they are at L1 and to post intent to hammer before proceeding. Because of the quick unvotes, this wasn't necessary.

(snip sus stuffs)
Goes from explaining why concerned over a possible quicklynch to dismissing it as highly unlikely in the same post. Things like this concern me. His play so far feels icky, and doesn't come across as town trying to hunt for scum at all. It feels fake.

@CJ Do ya have a stance on suspicious here? I only glanced at the game ya guys played, but I got the impression that sus was pretty obvtowny as scum?
Him not looking obviously so might be town indic here?

126 is finally what I wanted to hear.

@Suspicious Looking at how post 9 and 10 are literally a minute apart, it seemed like it was pretty much the same move I made. Still weary of " I'm fine with putting someone at L1" though.

did ya mix up the postnumbers here. I dunno what ya talking about if ya didn't.

[tictac]

@Jam What's yer stance on january?

[tictac]

According to Plotinus on page 1: "Mafia are able to communicate in their Private Topic at all times"

point?

[tictac]

@Jamelia i find it hard to believe that’s the only thing you noticed if you read everything i’ve said

but no, i’m not new to mafia just to forum mafia

feels like a big deflect of tictacs question but u might want to read again

@Jam ^this
lean town/lean scum and why is more what I'm looking for.

[tictac]

Vorkuta’s lines feel really jumpy, like he’s just reacting to random posts but not really contributing anything. Not sure if that’s just a normal playstyle for them or a sign of nervous mafia. Is there a way to review previous games that someone has played to compare and is that allowed?

click on the name on top of the avatar, then at 'view their topics' to see all the threads someone has posted in.
remember the 'no talking about ongoing games' rule, but completed games are allowed.

[tictac]

Subject: Newbie 1953 | Zooborns IV | Game Over

So I read through everything and tried analyzing as much as possible. My brain actually hurts from trying to form opinion's of scuminess so, yeah. LOL

I agree with the opinion that Leucostictie is pretty neutral, but I wouldn't agree that he is auto-town or whatever. I appreciate the indepth analysis but I found at times the wording of how townspeople should act to be almost a: "I think this is the way Town in this game should play!" versus "I am town, but I wouldn't be surprised if other Town played this way".

I personally don't blame anyone for voting for someone based on inactivity, including Dyrenz' back on Page 2. He hasn't been on since I've started talking and stuff. I think that voting for someone based on inactivity when I personally haven't seen any overt scuminess makes sense?

That's all I really have right now. This is fun! LOL

^This person here is town!Jamelia. That was post #69
He has opinions and he shares them freely.
He says 'LOL' alot because he is having fun analyzing a game with friends.
He is big into the communal aspect of problemsolving, and correcting each others mistakes. That's why I tried to direct him towards january, because I saw that same attitude in jan. Figured there would be common ground and an easy townread there, but no.
And yeah, this person did have a town quickhammer another town in his first game. He would be very wary of L-1. I believe this person would have unvoted Zen before CJ did, regardless of what his read on Zen was, since there was still time left until deadline.

I strongly believe that the person posting in this thread is not town!Jamelia.
There is not a single 'LOL' in his ISO.

@Jamelia: If I am wrong about something here, please tell me why.
@Others: I think this is the first time Jam randed scum. I'd like to lynch him gently if we can. I recognize that this is a meta-read and as such might not be convincing for all. I encourage everyone to take a peek at Jam-iso in that game, and then tell me if ya think that this is the same person at all.

VOTE: Jamelia

[tictac]

why would you want to leave it at L-1 if people didn’t notice? if that is the question that you’re answering... why would you want an early mislynch on someone who hasn’t even spoken yet... what if they were a power role

I'm sorry, I don't really understand the question. I don't want people being held at L-1 without people noticing. I don't want an early mislynch, and I don't want people to be voted out early even if they're a power role. Did I insinuate that in some of my earlier posts?

Anyways,

the reason I didn't do an immediate unvot

e, is because I

don't think the others realized

we were putting

Suspicious

at L-1/L-2.

@GeorgeBailey I was pretty sure from everything else you said that you had unvoted because it was too close to lynch. I’m curious what you expected from leaving it at L-1 if you believed nobody noticed

A mislynch simply. Could have been the guy you replaced, could have been another newbie (would most likely be another newbie).

tbh this is bizarre as both align.

[tictac]

Why the townlean on Vork?

Votes likes 46. There's obviously no intent to lynch, and it's purely to wake up stagnant players. I feel like scum would want the opposite.

another ping on informed POW. (assuming benign intent without reason)
What Vork actually said was basically: "go back to sleep ya lurker. ya posting too much."
If ya read that post in context it comes right after CJ posted, so the lurker being already awake, no reason to be trying to wake him up.

[tictac]

Not intended recipient but I'm about to hit 5000 shitposts worth of mafia

*ahem*
They could be offsite gods and it would be suboptimal for them to share such info so don't get your hopes up.

I'll answer this too, since Zen not gonna answer my question.
It's only suboptimal if they scum, so claiming offsite exp in yer first game is +town
Bailey is a special case since not a first-timer onsite, so has checkable meta. I would not have bought him claiming no offsite exp. I don't think a totally new player makes a roleplay account. I tried to get him to commit to a lie, but it didn't work.
I might have bought Zens play from a vet making a gambit. As newb it's very scummy.
Since he didn't answer I'll assume the worst possible answer.
I do think his activity while on L-1 is mildly town indic, if it's not exactly [zen,sus] tho.

In the future if comments on my questions could wait until after I have received answers, that would be great. I don't think it caused any damage this time tho.
Also when I specifically address questions to specific players(@someone) I have reasons to want answers specifically from those players.
good on ya about yer exp. u can safely assume that if something is knowable by clicking a link it's not news tho.

[tictac]

I think I'm at

{Sus, GB, FP}
{January, CJ}
{Zenith. Jam}
{tictac}

Also guys- this "he put the guy to L-1" discussion has been spanning on for 10 pages so....

why is GB town?
is the scumread on me something other than u disagree w me on what info is relevant?

[tictac]

I think L-2 is a good position for him now.

He's at L-3 atm.

[tictac]

More as "The more pages that pass by, the less townie he is". Which might be a misread, but I assume that's what he meant.

It's not.

[tictac]

As for not seeing something is on L-1.

I didn’t. I worked all last night and I didn’t realize we were on a L-1 on Zenith. That’s my bad.

Spoiler: online times

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Zenith (4): Jamelia, tictac, ceejayvinoya, Suspicious

Last visited:19 Oct 2019, 14:52
Last visited:19 Oct 2019, 18:04

I’m working late tonight but when I get home I’ll post some general thoughts.

u checked the thread at least 3 times after Plots votecount showing the L-1.
I don't believe u were unaware.

UNVOTE: until I actually sit down and read everything analytically.

yea. that's what I think town!you would have done 5 pages ago.

Literally LOL at this.

Too much WIFOM here..

@tictac What do you think? Which glass would you drink from here?

I judge this LOL organic in nature (lol)
I don't think it's super-relevant coming after I talked about it. Why do ya ask?

Zenith is just refusing to answer questions and using personal attacks.

I do wanna say that I like yer playstyle more than I do zens. If I could lynch him in good conscience I would.
you have a greater chance of actually flipping scum tho.

Now that I'm on my computer I can properly dissect and defend myself here. From my experience I believe scum-reading someone based on a meta from 1 game (can't talk about the current one) is very dangerous. I think scum-reading anyone based on their meta from this website is also dangerous. I take into consideration what is happening in this game, and not the history of others. If you're going to lynch me because my behavior on this website is different than from when I first joined, then I probably shouldn't have tried playing another game at all.

There's a site-meta level argument here that I don't entirely disagree with.
Maybe mafia as a game would be more enjoyable if nobody used meta ever.
Thing is, we don't live in that world. I did spectate that game, and not using that info would not be playing the game honestly.
Also: this isn't really an argument that has any bearing on yer align here.

[tictac]

Tictac v Jam might have scum in it
Sus v Zenith is prolly TvT

Just based on the last few pages of interaction alone

So why does scum!tic try to push a lynch away from town!Zen?
if the answer is "uh, dunno", vote for Jam.

[tictac]

I think I'm at

{Sus, GB, FP}
{January, CJ}
{Zenith. Jam}
{tictac}

Also guys- this "he put the guy to L-1" discussion has been spanning on for 10 pages so....

why is GB town?
is the scumread on me something other than u disagree w me on what info is relevant?

[tictac]

As for not seeing something is on L-1.

I didn’t. I worked all last night and I didn’t realize we were on a L-1 on Zenith. That’s my bad.

Spoiler: online times

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Zenith (4): Jamelia, tictac, ceejayvinoya, Suspicious

Last visited:19 Oct 2019, 14:52
Last visited:19 Oct 2019, 18:04

I’m working late tonight but when I get home I’ll post some general thoughts.

u checked the thread at least 3 times after Plots votecount showing the L-1.
I don't believe u were unaware.

If ya town, I prefer ya to fight this. even if it doesn't succeed, there's better info left behind if ya do.
Let's throw away the meta, and boil things down to this point.
Give reads/opinions on things and let that towniness shine through.
If ya scum, feel free to give up tho.

[tictac]

Give reads/opinions on things and let that towniness shine through.

Then do this. ya good at doing this.
maybe don't focus on defense so much?

[tictac]

I think the rest of town being quiet while Zen/Tic are fighting me/Suspic.

yea. tbh I'm kinda uncomfortable w that.
fancy should be back soon, at least.

[tictac]

vork also basically zero impact.

[tictac]

Effort isn't AI. Whether someone is extremely inactive, or going the extra mile putting in crazy effort, you'll find both town and scum everywhere throughout that spectrum.

Well, depends on the person somewhat, but basically agree here.
Also I think jan overestimates the effort involved in "i know this persons townplay from before" somewhat.

However ya currently voting CJ for inctivity..
Or are ya saying ya think refusal to answer questions is scum indic?
This question mostly rhetorical, but ya can answer if ya like

My issue with meta is that it is easily manipulated; what was once AI indicative of a player, once known in the meta mainstream, can then be used as a tactic for that player to disguise themselves.

u know, people keep saying this like it's obviously true.
No one actually has the ability to change their past at will.
Sure, people can play to their town-meta as scum.
Who in their right mind plays to their scum-meta as town?

The same can be said for when meta is used against a player, as it is easy to make a meta argument that can fit a given narrative.

Is it? I suppose people could be selective on what meta to present

if

the person whose meta is in question has varied games to choose from. Also that is super-easy argument to defend from by saying "you are cherry-picking my meta"

Meta is argued over so often and contradicted; it has its merits to be sure, but it should never be the entire basis for a push.

I'm not pushing Jam because of meta(anymore).
I am pushing him because I think he lied.

also:
- not expressing things out of fear of being attacked is more of a scum-trait than town-trait.
- his only non-zen player-related thought happening to be about january, who I asked him about, seems like a very odd coincidence to originate from a townie analyzing a game. It's much easier explained by scum going:"tictac asked me about jan, better make something up"

[tictac]

pagetop

[tictac]

I've received my prod and still can't respond to it for to it for the next 26 hours, I quite literally don't have time to contribute until then
If you feel the need to replace me, you can but I will get back to this game tomorrow evening, cross my heart and hope to die.

I nullread this post, therefore it's game-relevant and counts as a prod

[tictac]

Then lynch me.

I mean, that's what I'm trying to do.
Why take it for granted that I will succeed?
Why do ya have no opinion on me yet treat me like I'm guaranteed town?
Why do ya have no opinion on fancy for that matter?
Why do ya only respond to my posts? january tried talking to ya in a much more non-confrontational manner, and I thought ya might respond to that better than to me, but no.
If ya town it's still possible to fight this, even without providing guaranteed proof.
I do need something other than restating old opinions to even possibly change my mind here.
If ya town I recommend doing some analysis, and then talking about it.
Demonstrating town thought process requires first having that thought process.

[tictac]

If you're comfortable possibly flipping a town, why not flip Zenith?

You shouldn't be okay with allowing a potential mislynch

.

Wanna highlight this because possible info POW.
Everyone is a possible mislynch from town-pow.
day1 associative tho.

you guys are doing all the heavy lifting for me

But ya think I'm scum. Is wise to let scums steer the wheel? Come on now.

this isn't your first rodeo here

lol. I was gonna say this if ya said "ye, it's a disagree read"
also, fair. I was mostly having fun there.
I marple-tr yer read on me, fyi.


@Jam
"Like he seems content to just sit there being the default lynch, not looking town at all"
^this is something I said about Chemist during yer first game. It applies to your play here.
I don't think town-you says I have egg on my face for scumreading ya.
I think town ya says 'sorry' for putting in exactly zero effort.
Because I believe the genuine-you is a cool dude.
also: how in tf do ya not have a read on me if ya think I'm knowingly pushing a crapcase?

[tictac]

Mafia is as numbers game to me; a mislynch is always possible, especially D1, but a mislynch should not be accepted outright

Like, I don't see none outright accepting a mislynch is gonna happen. Except Jam if hes town.

Point of looking for pow slips is to look for things people did not mean to say, but did.
It's not a huge point tho, so ya can relax.

[tictac]

I don't think town-you says I have egg on my face for scumreading ya.
I think town ya says 'sorry' for putting in exactly zero effort.
Because I believe the genuine-you is a cool dude.

Like, if I'm wrong about ya, I'm wrong because I assume that ya care enough about this game to look at it when ya online anyways.
I don't at all get how yer response to that as town could be 'tictac is being unfair and deserves to be embarassed'

[tictac]

Hello to Skitt and Dolittle

Jamelia is town

A towncase on Jam could be helpful if that's true.
Also what pinged ya in fancy? I thought he was pretty towny.

George is on the scummy side of null, their posts feel affected. Is English your first language

Been putting that down to "Roleplay account"
I'm finnish fyi.

[tictac]

1 day, 20 hours, 13 minutes.
We should seek to consolidate real soon.
Skit should have an opportunity to towncase Jam before lynching Jam, if that's what we gonna do.
Also wanna see doLittle catchup before anything is lynched.

I'm not super opposed to lynching Zen here. Still think Jam is a better option tho.

[tictac]

i'd like someone's thoughts on this ^^ if anyone's online

Basically what I think as well.
Would be very interested in seeing a rebuttal.

[tictac]

I dont put much weight into your meta case really

et tu skitter?
I moved on from the meta ages ago.

[tictac]

As for not seeing something is on L-1.

I didn’t. I worked all last night and I didn’t realize we were on a L-1 on Zenith. That’s my bad.

Spoiler: online times

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Zenith (4): Jamelia, tictac, ceejayvinoya, Suspicious

Last visited:19 Oct 2019, 14:52
Last visited:19 Oct 2019, 18:04

I’m working late tonight but when I get home I’ll post some general thoughts.

u checked the thread at least 3 times after Plots votecount showing the L-1.
I don't believe u were unaware.

this is the biggest point for me.

[tictac]

confidence that you'll look like ridiculous after he flips (i think it's hard for scum to fake this sort of cockiness, that the person pushing them will look silly upon a townflip knowing that *there won't be a townflip*

Like, 'lynch me plz' is a pretty standard scum-strat, but tbh I dunno if it's in Jams range, since he's new.

[tictac]

He checked the site, not thread, you can't possibly know whether or not he checked the thread without posting here

I don't really think it makes sense to look for *proof* of anything on day1. what I look for is *evidence*

I can believe he checked the site but didnt check this game at the time

Who was l1 at that point?

zen

[tictac]

because I think Jam is super against things being on L-1.<- this part is meta.

then he said he would have unvoted, which I think is a lie. <-- no longer meta.

[tictac]

I'll think on it. gotta go eat w mom now.

[tictac]

Ok. I actually think Jam site-flaked :/
Combo of lynch-me-plz and site-flake = two mutually exclusive scum!mindsets.
"trying to fool the town" and "I can't post anymore"
VOTE: Zen

[tictac]

two mutually exclusive scum!mindsets

The first one failed so...

naw. first one is an active strat, second is a complete failure to play.
I don't think they come from the same person simultaneously like ever.

pedit: lol

[tictac]

Welcome back Jamelia.
Ya had me scared that I'd driven ya offsite for a bit.
Glad that didn't happen.

VOTE: Jamelia

[tictac]

I keep forgetting to post about the existence of post-tags
They exist.

Code: Select all

[post]100[/post]

100

[tictac]

About Bailey.
I do get info-pings from him and there's a focus on presentation I really don't like.
On the other hand I do think him being constantly confused about things is more of a town trait.
Like thinking I'm pushing Jam on pure meta or this:

Still Eyeing Zenith, I'll vote based off the answer of Suspicious's recent post. I think L-2 is a good position for him now.

Zen was at L-3

pedit: 100% agree

[tictac]

yea CFD always such a good idea /s

[tictac]

@susp I dunno what ya think ya doing w the jan push.
Near-zero chance she's gonna get lynched today so seems kinda pointless atm.
Unless chainsawing for Jam, in which case carry on.

[tictac]

Since this is a Plotinus game I'll post cute bunny-pics for folks who vote Jam
People who don't vote for Jam don't get no bunny-pics

[tictac]

@january: Here is yours

This is but a small sample of what I can offer folks

[tictac]

There's a marked difference in Jam behavior that coincides w the replacements arriving.
My thinking on that: Skitt is a much better coach than CJ was.

@susp ya don't want a bunny? I'm sad.
I only dole them out for Jam-votes tho, not for guessing reads.

[tictac]

Or maybe jan offered to post one herself? In that case I must object. Bunnies are my thing.

[tictac]

I'm not a superfan, kinda been pairing him w zen tho, that 'chainsaw for jam' thing was mostly a joke.
He does get activity cred that's viable on day 1 tho.

[tictac]

I'm p sure january is town

and I agree w most of her reasoning

[tictac]

I can look into susp more, but i dunno if i wanna go there day1

[tictac]

I will in fact vote for susp now if a wagon exists tomorrow.
Because trying to swing the lynch momemtum at a time like this to get

freaking january

lynched is beyond the pale.
There are some things 'too scummy to be scum' just plain does not cover and activity cred is not an unlimited hallpass.

bunnies for folks who vote susp

or

for Jam coming up tomorrow.
For now I'm going to bed.

[tictac]

ugh
i really should not play when i'm this tired.
ya just did a re-vote.
not reading anything now, but redact the last post.
pedit: well i did read that eh i dunno gotz to sleep

[tictac]

Ok. I have slept and eaten and hopefully more coherent now.
Let's try this once more.

this is the biggest point for me.

What if he stayed on Zenith?

He did in fact stay on zenith until I called him out for being out of character.

Would that earn him any town points?

I was in fact waiting to see if he would unvote. Yes, unvoting before I called him out on not doing so would have netted townpoints. Doing it after I called him out does not net any.

Why are you only holding Jam accountable for this?

Originally:
because of my read of him as a person, that I posessed from before the game started, having watched him play before. This was a convincing reason

for me

yet does not translate directly for me having a convincing argument, because you'd have to trust me or actually do some homework.
Then Jam said:

As for not seeing something is on L-1.

I didn’t. I worked all last night and I didn’t realize we were on a L-1 on Zenith. That’s my bad.

UNVOTE: until I actually sit down and read everything analytically.

And, lo. You guys don't have to trust me or do any homework, to know that for Jam to not unvote an early L-1 is out of character for him.

As for not seeing something is on L-1.

I didn’t. I worked all last night and I didn’t realize we were on a L-1 on Zenith. That’s my bad.

Spoiler: online times

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Zenith (4): Jamelia, tictac, ceejayvinoya, Suspicious

Last visited:19 Oct 2019, 14:52
Last visited:19 Oct 2019, 18:04

I’m working late tonight but when I get home I’ll post some general thoughts.

u checked the thread at least 3 times after Plots votecount showing the L-1.
I don't believe u were unaware.

And this is to refute Jams claim that he didn't see the L-1.

Seemed like a "Woah wait, I want a little more information first" unvote.

He unvoted after CJ did and after I called him out for not unvoting, so.


As for the current situation:
I have an overwhelming pref for lynching Jam obviously.
If I can't get that, lynching in [zen,vork,bailey] would not make me sad.
If I can't get those [susp, skitt]
January and doLittle are entirely off the table for me. I might no-lynch out of spite if one of these ends up as the only option. Ya have been warned.

plz note that these don't straight-up reflect my reads, but do reflect what I think is the wise course of action here.

[tictac]

nothing? cool.
@drDolittle I'll check this again in 6h and sheep ya to most places if ya post by then.
after that I'll try not to play into late hours and sleep instead.
I should be awake again near deadline-close tho.

[tictac]

UNVOTE:
well ok then. I'll sheep u then. Make it count.

[tictac]

well i gotta rethinnk a lot of stuff now.
wasn't really counting on doing that tonight.
ohwell.

i was kinda pr-reading susp tho, so at least I got that right.

[tictac]

dunno if it actually makes sense to override conftown or allow influence from others tho.

[tictac]

still think januarys thing on ya makes sense, but possible that it was a buddy of me.

[tictac]

this is why I hate cfd

[tictac]

I'm not gonna make good decisions under time pressure.

[tictac]

first instinct is to just lynch bailey here

[tictac]

any other reason for making me scramble than revenge for the tunnel?
I'd like get that. being wrong is a thing that does happen in mafia quite often tho.
Also: why the 'egg on my face' thing?

[tictac]

well ya can point to this game if this happens again then.
I did do my best to give ya the benefit of doubt. sometimes my best is not good enough.
ya can play under an alt if ya wanna escape meta altogether, and ya can hide login-times when ya log into the site.
i think the reveal was a bit premature, but not angry or anything. I thought it was likely the lynch would roll unto bailey.
still wanna see a confirm from susp tho, but this was basically suicide if ya scum, so I think that will happen.

[tictac]

@everyone
maybe tomorrow we can try to get things done before it's 13h to deadline.
please?

[tictac]

i still think january is town.
I dunno why she unvotes Jam when she did if she's trying to curry my favor.

[tictac]

or maybe 'job done' thing and it's better to let me tunnel on town fruitlessly?

[tictac]

still, day1 cfd onto someone lurky is rarely a bad idea, if there has to be a cfd anyways.

[tictac]

I do still tr january.

[tictac]

i dunno if that should be allowed to matter tho

[tictac]

@susp plz read her ISO and decide if ya still want that when it's not her vs Jam anymore.
I feel like she has towntold loads.

[tictac]

I'll be here before deadline hits. nolynch is not gonna happen if there's a thing at L-1 then.
meanwhile, this is my pref.
VOTE: Bailey

[tictac]

morning, happy scumday to vork

is it worth asking who did not vote for shorter night? or is it irrelevant?

wanted to take time to think

this is what I came p with, plz tell me if it makes sense.
when things, fall into place like this, that usually means I've gone mental.

here we go:
fancy push on Jam could be an attempt to drive a counterwagon to zen. starts at 67
167 fancy defense of zen via nullread.
skitter enters and scumreads zen
doc enters and talks skit into voting Bailey instead

like out of the posts you highlighted out of zen I don't think any of them are particularly scummy. meanwhile I like his L-1, and the fact that he thought it was L-2... I don't think scum makes that kind of mistakes, and his other posts feel fairly good as well?

Bailey's flailing so hard and voting conf town in 579. This is flipping red

being confused is a reason to TR zen but a reason to scumread bailey? I don't think this makes sense.

My thoughts about the Bailey lynch was 'meh, I guess this will do'. I think most of ya felt the same. But not Zen and Doc. One took the 'pro'-position and one took the 'against'-position, like classic scum.

Regardless, I think there was very little reason for scum to get their hands dirty with the bailey wagon (after the mason-reveal).
Vork gets a townpoint for flipping his stance on Bailey when scum-him had very little reason to do so and a good reason not to.
The only non-confirmed person here who expressed no interest in the lynch nor intent to hammer, gets a vote

VOTE: Zen

[tictac]

"hey now that I've gotten a really cool scum partner can we PLEASE not lynche her? kthnx"

pmuch zero actual danger on skitt slot at the time.

@tictac i had that doc/zen theory for a lot of day1 as well but i think zenith eod was townie

u mean the revere reads thing?
I dunno how he's exploring that when I'm not gonna be lynched and am currently sleeping so can't react to it.

*sighs*
I'm pretty sure it was self-implied, but fine
It's concerning because it doesn't have (or at least I can't find) the markings/intentions of "town-solvey" skitter.

Wasn't implied for me.

Needing a REASON for a play?

yes

Now for the meaty stuff, which is what I was hoping for
I don't like how the crux of your defense is "a mechanically optimal or otherwise perfect player wouldn't do any of the things" and how you're shifting the definitions. I am presenting a very plausible scenario, backed up with bits of evidence, slightly liberal assumptions, and my own personal experience.

Whereas you're basically demanding "screenshots of their scumPT" levels of evidence necessary for my points to have any validity in your eyes.
Which is a scum!skitter play

Inflated? yes, but this point does resonate with me. ref 352.
Skitt: if this is something ya been accused of as town, a link would be appreciated.

I mean who is october and september? Are we just referring to january as any other month for some reason? Id's it some kind of weird code?

^this doesn't read as real confusion to me

And to top it all off, I voted for long night to give more recovery time, but I'm only slightly better.. I feel kinda useless here. Probably need to re-read the game and ISO's, but I get the feeling that it won't help ease my general confusion.

^I actually do like this bit.

I pretty much had my eyes on skitter the whole time. Sure I may have taken narrative liberties to provoke skitter, but now I have a much more solid read on her as a result, and the resulting discourse helped me EVOLVE my read on her (I'm sorry I dragged december's name through the mud but I'm actually not sorry) and actually find concrete points that I dislike.

cool

You make it sound like I shouldn't even try to read skitter, like I should just hope that she is town because scum skitter sounds scary.

Well scum-skitt is scary, but there is no player ever who can't be POE'd.
+ I think vork might have an actual point w his 'meaty stuff'

living townies tend not to listen to dead townies' reads, i find. as you pointed out, if anything, they might listen to a townie who got nk'd - after all, why did scum nk them?

i don't find that people listen to a lynched townie's reads that often

agree here.

these two situations are completely different and you know it. One is unprompted day 1 mistake, on something scum should be focused on which is votes and lynches.
the second is mistake under pressure, typically involving throwing votes around wildly hoping something sticks, which is a very scummy endeavor.

I don't know that at all.
I think ya describing a scum-behavior that doesn't actually happen. Especially newbscum more likely to shut down rather than throw associative tells around.
Dunno how scum!Bail would think a vote might stick to a conftown?
Also Bailey did make unprompted mistakes w the votecount also and I pointed it out, but that a little beside the point.

@tictac whos your other maf read with zenith then? doc?

I think so, yea.
vork is swaying me a bit w that one point tho, even if the association w you was bull (and he pmuch admitted it was)

I dont know what 'demanding scum pt screenshot levels of evidence' means exactly, or how i'm meant to be doing that

demanding proof vs looking for evidence that the opinion is arrived at in a natural way.
I actually don't see ya doing that w vork, but I do think ya did that w my Jam-push.

sry for wall. had i more time I would have made it more readable.

[tictac]

u mean the revere reads thing?
I dunno how he's exploring that when I'm not gonna be lynched and am currently sleeping so can't react to it.

i'm not sure what you mean by this

I meant post 690

Inflated? yes, but this point does resonate with me. ref 352.
Skitt: if this is something ya been accused of as town, a link would be appreciated.

i'm not sure what you're asking for here

Spoiler: posts

Tictac is gutpinging town but i hate the jamelia push
Jamelia is town

Yes but i read the whole game in an hour and when reading through it seemed like a fairly significant part od your scumread so i mentioned

I actually didnt realize you'd moved on from it at all

He checked the site, not thread, you can't possibly know whether or not he checked the thread without posting here

I can believe he checked the site but didnt check this game at the time

Who was l1 at that point?

Also i dont like these sort of activity based reads

Ok and jamelia not posting while zen is at l1 is significant because ...

I feel like even if ya disagreed w my Jam-read it would fall into 'i can see why he thinks that' category.
Your tone when talking w me was 'that is wrong and ya have no reason to think that', which I feel was unreasonable, especially w ya gutreading me as town.
I think this might be AI for ya, but I'm not sure, so I asked for a self-meta counterexample to disprove it. I'll take that as a defense if ya got a good one.

I actually don't see ya doing that w vork, but I do think ya did that w my Jam-push.

ok, where do you think i'm doing that?

see prev point.

in case I wasn't clear previously: if it's down to lynching skitt or vork, I currently prefer lynching skitt.
it does occur to me tho, that with nightkills being tied up with getting rid of the masons, lynching town!skitt is 100% what scum!vork would need to do if doesn't want to be at lylo w her, which he would not want.
so i guess what I'm trying to say is: skitt & vork. If ya guys are in a tvt, ya need to work it out cause it's fairly disasturous to gamestate if that's the case.

my good man, if you do succeed in getting me lynched today i'm going to do everything in my ability to make sure you're next, just letting you know

I'll add that I don't think threats like this are constructive if ya town.
Ya in a category of players whose reads I actually would listen to postmortem if ya flip town.
I need them to accurately represent your view on what is true.

[tictac]

i had that tone because i fundementally object to these sorts of tells in an abstract/ethical sense

So gimme an example where ya did that as town.
I need something to check/compare here.

why would you prefer to lynch me over vork?

I TR vork day1 scumread on me and his flip on Bailey.
I don't have a reason to TR ya and I think the tone-thing might be AI, I'll think over yer response to that tho.
I'm also not sure I buy ya nullreading me here, but that part might be BoP.

[tictac]

I'm not hammering anything before the replacer catches up, fyi.
doc being quiet rn is worriesome.
more from me later tonight, hopefully.

[tictac]

when people try to pull this trick and complain someone is scummy for irl reasons i'll usually object to it

I think this would be more what I'm looking for. Ya always informed about your own align so can't really compare attitudes w ya defending Jam there.
I don't at all doubt that ya do in fact have moral views that affect yer play.
I'm specifically looking for that tone we spoke of from yer townself.
Sorry if I was unclear earlier.

Other than that, I think I'll wait for a doc-cathup before proceeding.

[tictac]

ok. figured it would be an easy fix if I'm wrong about ya, is all.
let's see what doc says.

[tictac]

@skitt already listed posts in 797
@doc i was starting to feel bad about the skitt push and wanted ya to commit to a stance before pushing further.
it's not super relevant now tho. I'm fine sheeping conftown on general principles.
I'm feeling kinda tired and not super courteous, but whatevs.

intent to hammer

[tictac]

I never get to hammer stuff

a specific player, scum in general, or town in general?

It's a good-faith move to prevent a hypo!idiot impulsive townie

not likely to happen here.

or hypo!triggerhappy scumpartner from wanting to get everything over with ASAP

sounds like an excellent way to end the day.

I dont it it why are you guys willing to hammer vork when you think it would flip town

like, the greatest weakness of town is people working at cross purposes. If I can make that not be a thing, that's worth some amount of personal agency.
Ya didn't think it was weird when I offered to lynch january on day 1. Why is this different?

VOTE: vork

L-1

[tictac]

This is exactly what scum rb said in mini normal 2046.

I don't even remember that you offered to lynch january on day 1... was january your town read at that point?

well, I think 'follow the conftown' is a pretty commonsense strat so not surprising that other people have thought about it too.
and yes, I did tr january at the time.

this is possibly the scummiest thing you've said

okay. I still think it's a good strat tho.

VOTE: Zenith

[tictac]

Spoiler: Context

UNVOTE:
well ok then.

I'll sheep u then. Make it count.

dunno if it actually makes sense to override conftown or allow influence from others tho

.

I do still tr january.

i dunno if that should be allowed to matter tho

@susp plz read her ISO and decide if ya still want that when it's not her vs Jam anymore.
I feel like she has towntold loads.

I'm not hammering anything before the replacer catches up, fyi.

doc being quiet rn is worriesome.
more from me later tonight, hopefully.

@skitt already listed posts in 797
@doc i was starting to feel bad about the skitt push and wanted ya to commit to a stance before pushing further.
it's not super relevant now tho.

I'm fine sheeping conftown on general principles.

I'm feeling kinda tired and not super courteous, but whatevs.

intent to hammer

like, the greatest weakness of town is people working at cross purposes. If I can make that not be a thing, that's worth some amount of personal agency.

no this is not a post that says "hey follow conf town". this is a post that says "hey I want to switch a wagon but I dont have an excuse. let me come up with one, and call it im following town"

I have zero clues on how ya would think that.

[tictac]

Spoiler: HEYYEYAAEYAAAEYAEYAA

I liked the song <3

[tictac]

possible teams excluding january whom I TR:

doc vork

doc skitt

i don't think partner-doc pushes skitt in 937

doc zen

vork skitt

vork on record on never bussing yet doing his hardest to lynch skitt

(ref)
vork zen

skitt zen

I don't think partner-zen puts skitt to L-1 in 813

I don't think there's a plausible partner for skitt atm.

pedit: nope

[tictac]

january and zenith should put their votes somewhere so we can determine who our lynch options are

ya

I have alarm set for 30min before deadline. I'll sheep Kar at that time.
gut says it's doc+vork ftr.

[tictac]

Then why not vote one of them instead of sheeting me?

thought I explained already. one town with a doublevote is better than two with one.
I can oblige tho.
VOTE: vork

[tictac]

I still think jan is town.

CJ could have easily unvoted buddy.zen in 164.
-> I still think skitt+zen is ruled out.

so I'm at:
skitt+doc 30%
doc+zen 60%
other 10%

I thought about early-voting doc but my reads have sucked this game, so I don't think I wanna force the issue if jan really wants skitter.
@jan: plz make sure tho, i think there's a fairly good chance ya wrong there.

[tictac]

kinda insane abount of sync basically, and figuring out how the site works in a townie manner.
I can towncase her tomorrow if ya want details.

[tictac]

@skitt: here's some towny things january did on day1. I can continue to day2 tom if ya want

Yeah played a lot of live chat mafia so i’m familiar with the game but just not what to do here on d1

claim offsite exp in first game +town

Suspicious, but I feel like his response to the votes seemed very kneejerk-y with the thing about there being a mafia who voted him. It doesn't seem like a real "read" that comes from actually looking for mafia

susp response to wagon seemed artificial to me too. sync.

@Jamelia i find it hard to believe that’s the only thing you noticed if you read everything i’ve said

but no, i’m not new to mafia just to forum mafia

feels like a big deflect of tictacs question but u might want to read again

sync.
also jan took a soft approach w Jam despite pressure to be agressive. if she was pushing for mislynch/trying to look town, i don't think she would have.

I just realized that I was combining Zenith and Vorkuta into one spot in my brain and I thought they were the same person (same number of letters and starts with letter near the end of the alphabet lol)

mixing up zen and vork is a zen anti-association.

(snip)
Vorkuta’s lines feel really jumpy, like he’s just reacting to random posts but not really contributing anything. Not sure if that’s just a normal playstyle for them or a sign of nervous mafia. Is there a way to review previous games that someone has played to compare and is that allowed?

impulse to sort leads to impulse to learn about the site. big townpoint for this.

fair enough, just seemed to me like you avoided answering at all. not gonna keep pushing u on that, just felt a bit noncommital with the answer

thoughts on anyone else? who's your scumread right now?

this is that soft approach w Jam again.

out of curiosity, how much “coaching” between mafia members usually occurs in the mafia chat?

when I played live chat mafia, mafia couldn’t speak to each other during the day so there wasn’t really any way for partners to coach each other.

-don’t think this is that relevant right now, but if coaching is common or likely then it might be easier to figure out partner/team reads later on. (for example a newbie with really bad plays that flips maf probably has a newbie partner)
-i know this has way too much meta to ever back up a full read, but it might help with pointing us in the right direction later on, just felt like asking now because it came to mind and i didn’t want to forget

There was talk of daytalk in thread, which led to a theory on what might be happening in the scum-thread.
valid perspective, that scum might want to not introduce to conversation.
not super relevant to current moment, but lack of self-censorship is also a towntell.

just attacked tictac’s use of meta just because it was meta, rather than attempting to disprove it. meta is a part of the game, so I don’t really see a problem with including it in a read. you are playing a lot differently than it seems from that quote. however, i think there is a somewhat reasonable meta-based defense of jamelia since newer players tend to respond more reactively from my experience

sync and sorting.

robably a ridiculous idea but i’m actually considering the possibility of it being a scum-scum distancing strategy because it just seems so unnecessarily extended. very unlikely because it seems like a useless expenditure of energy but it‘s be funny if it was.

very strong sync.

just realized almost all of these rely on jamelia being scum but uhhh...

I think this happens to town more than to scum. jan thought Jamelia was scum and her speculation was based on that erroneous info.

mostly reads to me as two people being annoyed with each other. if anything, i scumread you more for the zenith-suspicious interaction.

sync
338,433,434,435,456,457 ok, i'm not gonna list every post clarifying the Jam-push. basically nothing I disagreed with there.

eh ok i’ll stop pretending i’m misunderstanding your argument lol
it’s just annoying as fk and i’m annoyed

sure i acknowledge that mafia is often aware of and concerned about a wagon on them but that’s usually more significant earlier in the day when votes are more for pressure

right now any vote that’s up SHOULD be for the sake of lynching. and i really really don’t think i’m the scummiest player at this table so i’m a bit confused why you want to flip me first even if you agree that other people are scummy

annoyance at people vanity-voting instead of trying to lynch a thing when deadline approaching is something I empathize with superhard.
also confidence in herself looking towny is in itself towny.

clarifying #517:
vorkuta seems reasonable. i’m trying to appeal to him and if i feel like he’s blatantly ignoring my appeal and not considering it at all, i’m going to say he’s mafia. i’m not saying he’s maf if he doesn’t agree with my appeal but if he’s clearly making no effort to listen then he’s not genuinely looking for mafia

so far feels like he’s actually responding

ah, here's the vork TR. I think I missed this before this ISO. I buy it.

well hello george
way to split the vote even more

more annoyance about the vote being split.

unvoting for now i think there’s a chance jam might be just a town crumbling under pressure, gonna give them a chance to respond and make decision later

also dunno what motivation scum-jan would have to unvote jamelia here.

but in all seriousness we need to agree on a vote soon i’m gonna hate you all if we end up nolynching

more annoyance about vote being split. gonna stop quoting these.

well damn

both of u so scummy though

yea,sync.

so you actually don't think you were scummy at all.

neither of you.

lol.

this attitude to Jamelia and Susp, completely believable from town!jan and I think would be hard to pull off as scum.

little bit of a meta read but if george is maf here then his partner is definitely not online atm because this isn't playing dumb this is actually fullblown obliviousness

going back to the daytalk-thought she had earlier.

vork = zenith, basically even idk i still keep getting u two confused a little bit

this is a consistent thing so I believe it's real.

the whole time i put you near the scum side of my list was just based on other people's reads

i didn't think it mattered that much since i wasn't going to lynch you

i don't see scum-jan saying this.

i think skitter might be a better lynch here. they still read as null to me even after that many posts, which feels strange to me, kinda like they're trying to pass as town but they're not quite towny.

i totes buy this read. I'd probs have ya as poe-scum also if it weren't for the no-partner thing, and jan doesn't have background on ya so 'dont lynch skitt on day1' isn't a thing for her.

[tictac]

@tictac im still not sure enough to vote, hence the unvote - still waiting for something to convince me i guess

do u think I'm wrong in ruling out skitt+zen?
if not, do u actually object to me voting doc here if ya assume I'm town? cuz I think I'm nearly good to go.

Tic tac did you just quote everything Jan said

not everything

"Ruling" out scum-pairs is oft a scum used technique to almost force lynches without seeming so. I.e. vork flipped town (tictac scum would know this), therefore, here is the potential lynch options for today. It looks natural, and is a way to push votes without thinking.

now u making stuff up.

Plus I don't think it's a very good POE in the first place.

ok. what part of it is flawed?
jan-town or ruling out zen+skitt?
cuz if I'm right about both of those things then ya have to be scum from my pow.
in fact I'd expect the logic to work in reverse if ya town, and make me look scummy to ya, yet ya pushing skitt more than ya push me.
calling me scum is super unconvincing for me cuz I know it's not true, but if there's flaws in my logic feel free to point them out.

pedit: ok. here's the logic for ruling out skitt+zen:

skitt zen

I don't think partner-zen puts skitt to L-1 in 813

CJ could have easily unvoted buddy.zen in 164.
-> I still think skitt+zen is ruled out.

CJ pushing zen while zen on L-1, before the mason reveals, leaving him in L-1 for 24h despite esily could have unvoted 'to prevent quickhammers'.
zen putting skitt on L-1 day 2.
i think this play is sufficiently crazy that scumz would not in fact do that.

[tictac]

The thing is, I think it's just skit tictac scum.

hokay then.
let's get things moving.

VOTE: doc

sorry if this throws yall.

[tictac]

I wouldn't be surprised if you are second scum with either skit or jan.

he thinks i'm town and i'm voting him in lylo..

[tictac]

For or against lynching the slot? Why or why not?

I'm for it.
I think it's a scum-slot.
I think 1069 and 1070 read as scum-doc blowing up at scum-zen, or are meant to be read as such after he flips.

[tictac]

tictac i'd feel a little better if you unvoted

I've voted for doc for a good long while, and daytalk makes coordinating quickhammers super-easy, yet none have happaned.
doc-slot is conf-scum as far as I'm concerned.
I don't subscribe to using maximum possible discussion time, just cause discussion time.
I don't want doc-slot replaced and somehow squirm out of getting lynched.
It's scum and it needs to die.

I don't think the choice between me and doc-slot is a hard one by any means.
so let's get to it.

[tictac]

doc-slot is conf-scum as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not gonna vote for someone who isn't confirmed scum when I can vote for confirmed scum.

[tictac]

@jan scum-skitt hammers town-doc 100% of the time for instant win.
skitt literally can't be scum unless it's with doc.

[tictac]

morning, happy scumday to vork

is it worth asking who did not vote for shorter night? or is it irrelevant?

wanted to take time to think

this is what I came p with, plz tell me if it makes sense.
when things, fall into place like this, that usually means I've gone mental.

here we go:
fancy push on Jam could be an attempt to drive a counterwagon to zen. starts at 67
167 fancy defense of zen via nullread.
skitter enters and scumreads zen
doc enters and talks skit into voting Bailey instead

like out of the posts you highlighted out of zen I don't think any of them are particularly scummy. meanwhile I like his L-1, and the fact that he thought it was L-2... I don't think scum makes that kind of mistakes, and his other posts feel fairly good as well?

Bailey's flailing so hard and voting conf town in 579. This is flipping red

being confused is a reason to TR zen but a reason to scumread bailey? I don't think this makes sense.

My thoughts about the Bailey lynch was 'meh, I guess this will do'. I think most of ya felt the same. But not Zen and Doc. One took the 'pro'-position and one took the 'against'-position, like classic scum.

Regardless, I think there was very little reason for scum to get their hands dirty with the bailey wagon (after the mason-reveal).
Vork gets a townpoint for flipping his stance on Bailey when scum-him had very little reason to do so and a good reason not to.
The only non-confirmed person here who expressed no interest in the lynch nor intent to hammer, gets a vote

VOTE: Zen

i feel pretty good about this post rn.

Either ddl or tictac is probably scum based on how long tictacs vote has been there.

this is common lylo-logic tho, so a bit weird that it took skitt so long to accept it as true.
I expect her to be good at scum tho, and that includes knowing when to bus and how to commit to bussing
dunno if scum!her would actually waffle like this.

[tictac]

No i understand the logic, but the zenith/january pair wasnt actually ruled out till last night when they were both on at the same time

i mean u use logic that makes more sense when there is no daytalk.
by the time of 1102 well over 24h had passed, and nobody but ya was VLA.
plenty of time to arrange a timing for a quickhammer without posting anything, i reckon.
but, eh.

[tictac]

VOTE: zenith

Great job! Getting out of a game-long tunnel isn't easy.
It was fun playing w u and ya good at looking town.
there are bliz games onsite if the standard deadlines are too long for u.

@Skitt u were fun as well, even if i was paranoid of ya. i'll try not to bop ya so much in the future.

I thought zen played well. Maybe commit harder when ya bus and familiarize yerself w lylo-dynamics more.
doc was gonna go down day 3 after i voted. jan wasn't gonna go for skitt when there was confirmed scum in [tic,doc], that's silly.

Subject: Newbie 1961 | Trees II | Tictac's Notes

I think I love fancypants.
I hope I'm not just sitting in his very fancy pocket rn.
either way, I feel cozy.

lol
fancypants was extremely good at scum here. too bad he had to replace.

I probably won’t play much anymore because apparently I’ll just be scum read everytime for “meta reasons” thanks to Tictac.

yea. u don't have that meta anymore, so don't worry.
people being wrong about u is something u do have to deal with when u play mafia tho, so maybe it's not worth it for u? dunno.

[tictac]

I was thinking about replacing into DDL’s slot, but Teacher beat me to the punch. I was actually fully convinced Zenith was scum by the time DDL was seeking replacement, but then i realized that DDL was totally his teammate and i’d be replacing into a scumsllt. So yeah, good thing i didn’t end up playing after all cus i’d have to defend someone i totally scumread. ^^

i mean u could have hardbussed zen and lynched me on 3p?

[tictac]

DrDolittle is roleblocking tictac. (success: no effect)

lol