Newbie 1961 | Trees II | Over

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Hey all, i'll catch up after work today

@plot i have regular vla on friday and saturday

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P1 suspicious wagon very very loosely points to town!suspicious

I dont like fancy p1 either

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I like suspicious' entrance

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Zenith's naked vote against Suspicious seemed strange, and I wanna chalk it up to RVS, but the post was barren of any flavour/reasoning/anything.

VOTE: Zenith

Wny is the vote being bereft of flavour/etc a vote-worthy offense?

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I voted because that's literally the only way to make progress @D1.

Jokes aside, Sus's reaction to said wagon and the follow up interrogation gets him townpoints from me.
But like... come on guys, show a tiny bit of common sense with these questions

What specifically about his reaction makes you give him town points?

If suspicious is scum, I could see him as an easy early bus for easy distance. But the wagon moved pretty fast, so perhaps his partner got scared and backed off?

I dont particularly like this post, for a couple of reasons:

1. I agree with vork that sus had a good reaction to his wagon, so the fact that you dont seem to see it is a little ??? To me

2. Do you really think scum bus their partners p1?

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Actually before we get into point 2, what do you think 'bus' means @zenith?

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Also heya vork

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from Jamelias profile:
Last visited:17 Oct 2019, 16:31
that's in my local time so about 4 hours ago.

I feel like him just having a single post is scum-indic for him.

I dont think it is for him, necessarily

Suspicious did you say how much mafia experience you have?

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Hey hey you're too fast
to answer your question: i fos suspicious at the moment will explain in a sec

Huh

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Hey hey you're too fast
to answer your question: i fos suspicious at the moment will explain in a sec

Huh

I disagree with your suspicious read on this page but i think it probably comes from town

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I dont much like fancy pants
Fancy is almost never scum with jamelia here, i think

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? I only glanced at the game ya guys played, but I got the impression that sus was pretty obvtowny as scum?

Oh this is a useful tidbit

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. Not sure if that’s just a normal playstyle for them or a sign of nervous mafia

Normal playstyle for him

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Am liking the recent content from tictac. Think I'll sheep for now and see where this goes.

VOTE: Jamelia
L-2

Oh dear

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I think jamelia is a mislynch rn

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out of curiosity, how much “coaching” between mafia members usually occurs in the mafia chat?

Relatively common, esp between se!scum and newb!scum

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Tictac v Jam might have scum in it
Sus v Zenith is prolly TvT

Just based on the last few pages of interaction alone

Uhhhhh
I dont agree with these much at all

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and honestly i agree it’s a very bad reasoning to fully base a lynch on. at best it’s NAI (just frustration) but it kinda leans to me as mafia frustrated at being scumread for some dumb reason

Disagree

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Ok i'm caught up:

January is townie but i disagree with most of their conclusions
Suspicious is townie barring having a ridiculous scumrange
Tictac is gutpinging town but i hate the jamelia push
Jamelia is town

Fancy gutpinged me as scum, but that might be a playstyle thing, idk

Vork is null

George is on the scummy side of null, their posts feel affected. Is English your first language

And i'm p sure zenith is just scum so VOTE: zenith

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and honestly i agree it’s a very bad reasoning to fully base a lynch on. at best it’s NAI (just frustration) but it kinda leans to me as mafia frustrated at being scumread for some dumb reason

Disagree

Cool cool

Let's talk about who you think is

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Also how are you reading tictac?

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Whoops i didnt mean to quote myself in 329, that was meant to be a response to zenith

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Sure, but my point is that that never really happens

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Also how are you reading tictac?

@zenith

Also did you say who yoh were scumreading?

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ok this is how i read this post from Jamelia:
Jamelia is basically assuming that tictac is town with bad reasoning in sentence 1, right?

I dont think that sentence implies jamelia thinks tictac is town

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#284 feels like a scumslip calling tictac town

I dont think so

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A towncase on Jam could be helpful if that's true.

-indignation at being tunneled
- confidence that you'll look like ridiculous after he flips (i think it's hard for scum to fake this sort of cockiness, that the person pushing them will look silly upon a townflip knowing that *there won't be a townflip*
- despite pressure resolutely sticking to his pov for things like his original zenith vote. When you pushed him over it he said things along the lines of 'i dont care what you think, that's my position' and i think that's townie

I dont put much weight into your meta case really, and i dont think he's done much scummy either

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Also what pinged ya in fancy? I thought he was pretty towny.

Idk. I think it's thr blusteriness
But that might be a playstyle thing so :shrug:

George's posts feel kinda fake and like forced? Or like he's putting on some kind of appearance that isnt natural? And i sometimes get that vibe from non-native english speakers who might construct a sentences in a way that native speakers might find slightly forced. So this is only really a red flag if he's a native speaker, because that would imply the forced and constructed nature of his posts isnt coming from some nai source, like not being a native speaker

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1 day, 19 hours, 15 minutes.

is it possible to get a day's extension due to two end of phase replacements?

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Yes but i read the whole game in an hour and when reading through it seemed like a fairly significant part od your scumread so i mentioned

I actually didnt realize you'd moved on from it at all

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He checked the site, not thread, you can't possibly know whether or not he checked the thread without posting here

I can believe he checked the site but didnt check this game at the time

Who was l1 at that point?

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Also i dont like these sort of activity based reads

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It's not him saying 'lynch me plz', it's the confidence with which he's telling the person trying to lynch them that they're wrong, coupled with not minding if a flip is necessary to prove them right

I think it's out of his range

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Ok and jamelia not posting while zen is at l1 is significant because ...

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I dont think they site-flaked

Vork you wanna help me get a read on you?

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Oh no you might be scum

Talk to me about zenith, please?

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Why is zenith on the same tier as tictac?

Why might i be scum?

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like out of the posts you highlighted out of zen I don't think any of them are particularly scummy. meanwhile I like his L-1, and the fact that he thought it was L-2... I don't think scum makes that kind of mistakes, and his other posts feel fairly good as well?

I didnt higlight everything i didnt like wrt zenith

The sheep was awful:

- no indication of townreading tictac
- no indication of scumreading whoever the vote was on
- tictac's vote was a sudden departure from the major topics of conversation at the time (iirc zenith was getting wagoned?) And instead of engaging with any of that, zenith lolsheeps - it reads like he didnf really know how to interact with what was happening

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Why is zenith on the same tier as tictac?

Why might i be scum?

It's mutually exclusive. I town- on zen and tictac.

I think you're scum because some of your reads in your catchup make me go like ???, I don't like your defense case on jam at all, and I think ceejay has scum equity.

Ok, what parts of my catchup dont you like, why dont you like my read on jam, and why does cj have scum equity?

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that was some kind of brain fart, sorry - i somehow thought it was a vote on someone else, and i'm not sure why i thought that

Either way i dont really like the sheep

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It's oppurtunustic

If zenith is scum neither tictac nor jamelia are

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your case of jam is that its town-cocky because they're sure the flip will make X look ridculous

Ok
I disagree

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CJ has dodged every question by saying that he doesn't want to answer for fear of shaping opinions on himself. that's scummy.

I'm p sure that's nai for him, but i'm also in his slot, so :shrug:

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let's do this
VOTE: GeorgeBailey

Like I'm fairly zen is town. I see a lot of what he's doing which is perceived as scummy as what I did early on as town in the newbie queue back in the days.

Ok why is zen town?

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meanwhile I like his L-1, and the fact that he thought it was L-2...

This is the main thing that i see in that post beyond 'i dont think his posts are scummy' which is ... not helpful?

I'm not sure why this is townie either

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here's your case on town-skit. its attitude based and player dependent, much less so alignment dependent.

FYI i think resolutely sticking to pov and not listening is clear scum strat. Ico did this to great success in a recent mini.

I mean i think tells are player-dependant, and fair, i've never seen scum!jamelia, but it's more stubborn/sincere/annoyed/frustrated then i think comes from scum. I'm not sure why jamelia's being read as scum frustrated for being pushed and not town frustrated for being pushed

And i dont think that most of the things that have been brought out about them are scummy.

And ok

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Like i think it's hard to fake the indignation that jamelia displays when they say the egg will be on tictac's face when jamelia flips town

They're very confident that they *won't* flip red, and i think it's hard for scum to fake that confidentally

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*to fake it that confidentally

Like it doesnt read as bravado, but real

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Suspicious did you say how much mafia experience you have?

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I apologize for my non-notified V/LA. I had some emergency personal
problems happen IRL. I think you can tell by my pointed/harsh posts before I left that something was going on.

A) i hope everything is ok!!!
B) ok then the confidence/tone thing i was townreading you for before is probably less ai

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What do you mean by "no indication of townreading tictac"? It's right there plainly visible in the same post as my sheep vote, so I don't see how you could miss it.

Am liking the recent content from tictac. Think I'll sheep for now and see where this goes.

VOTE: Jamelia
L-2

I meant no indication before that post

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Like i think it's hard to fake the indignation that jamelia displays when they say the egg will be on tictac's face when jamelia flips town

They're very confident that they *won't* flip red, and i think it's hard for scum to fake that confidentally

Idts. Posts like this are not AI IMO. Like being confident you yourself wont flip red is the first rule of mafia

I dont think most people can fake it that well

Either way due to his irl circumstances i'm no longer sure it's ai

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What do you mean by "no indication of townreading tictac"? It's right there plainly visible in the same post as my sheep vote, so I don't see how you could miss it.

Am liking the recent content from tictac. Think I'll sheep for now and see where this goes.

VOTE: Jamelia
L-2

I meant no indication before that post

My read of tictac was more null before the recent activity I mentioned in that post.

that's my point

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~5 years or so I guess, in-person and forum. I've only now started getting back into it, so I am new to the site.

how good would you rank your scumgame?

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@zenith i hope you feel better!!!

@ddl: those are actually p good posts
also i'd feel bad lynching someone that sick who couldn't respond well so

VOTE: george

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and there's a focus on presentation I really don't like.

This is the part of bailey i dont like

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I have no clue. You tell me.

I mean you say you have several years of experience so ... you dont have a sense of how good your scumgame is?

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I dont much like suspicious, actually, the more i think about it

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It's not entirely but the fact that you're being evasive isnt helping.

A lot of how i form reads is by gauging whether or not a person is out of their scumrange
(Or, in this queue, gauging whether a behavior is likely to come from a new town player or not)

You feel kinda townie but i dont know what your scumrange is. If you're a new player with little experience i'd probably be straight up townreading you. But with more context - how good your scumgame is - i probably would not be, so i'm trying to get that context that would enable me to form a more accurate assessment of how townie you're being *for you*

But you're not answering so

Why do you think this is a trap question?

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Ok. I'll see if i can check that game out after work

It wasnt a trap question, but i dont townread u anymore either

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Sure, i would be, but i'm not scum here

What do you think of susp, tictac?

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I'm p sure january is town, even if i disagree with most of their reasoning

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VOTE: suspicious

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I kinda doubt this is happening in the next 36 hours but i would like to note how i'm reading him ^

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Again:

A) it wasnt a trap
B) that's not entirely why i'm voting you

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I probably ask that question ... every other game i play on average? Literally no one has accused me of setting them up before

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- you're being kinda lamist and you have enough experience that i'm dubious you're just saying the things people expect you to say. Again if you're new this is more of a towntell, but you're not
- i dont like that i've had to drag an answer out of you regarding experience
- i dont like your january vote/spat
- i dont particularly like your defense of zen

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Out of curiosity, why did you give #365 a pass then? Similar response to a similar question, but Vork walks away town.

Because he's impossible to read, that answer is characteristic of him, and i didnt think bugging him right there would garner anything useful

@vork it would be nice if you like contributed tho

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Also why on earth is january the leading wagon rn ?

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I'll respond to that later in a bit @susp, when i'm at a pc, i dont have patience to copy quotes on a phone rn

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Because they're the towniest person in this game rn ...

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I'll respond to that later in a bit @susp, when i'm at a pc, i dont have patience to copy quotes on a phone rn

ok this isn't going to happen before my weekend vla, i hope to get to it tomorrow night

i should be back before deadline

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Boy oh boy, I can't wait for someone else to misrepresent my posting!

i'm not insulting you or misrepresenting your posting, but ok

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Hi i skimmed and have a busy night

UNVOTE:

Vork does town!you ever consider lynching me day1 or ...

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Also if I wanted to vote for the sake of lynching, I'd go for DDL who's been quite absent.
Maybe skitter considering she's V/LA, or Zenith because it would be so simple and I'd get literally no blowback.

Like this doesnt fit with the last like three games i've played with you

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Never mind i misread that post cuz skimming

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I think i can be here in about half an hour, if you want to wait for me to catch up before hammer

I've had an irl emergency the past couple of days, sorry

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hey i'm around for a bit now

so jam and sus have claimed masons?

and i'm p sure january is town

from my pov it's two of {tictac/ddl/vork/bailey/zenith}

i think zentih/bailey/vork are the most likely

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i haven't really read the ~6 pages in the middle that i missed

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i'm kinda thinking vork is scummy, actually

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@bailey

I sincerely doubt that your skitter push is going to happen today.
Bring that up tomorrow maybe

???

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skitter - only on this level because everyone else is scummier but i'm a bit paranoid (maybe intimidated is the better word) by your meta of being supertowny as scum

i'm proud of my banner :p

i actually probably haven't been as townie as i could? idk it's been a weird week and i haven't been ~here~ and ~focused~ as much as i'd like to be

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Er, Why exactly? I knew the two biggest wagons were town getting lynched on shaky ground. And it still is. I have no problem voting Zenith or Suspicious. How am I more suspicious than Zenith exactly?

if bailey is scum it's with a newbie partner ^

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Maybe it makes my ego feel slightly better that they were secret buddies with their own secret PT.

this is a towntell i think (?)

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You still want to vote for Suspicious?

Well yeah, his constant berating. His ego vote. But It doesn't matter much. seems like people have their mind set on me right now. Especially Vork, who.... Town read me, then voted for me?? Where's the defense buddy?

I guess I should have just voted on one of the wagons instead of defending them lmao. They were both just kinda shitty though. Would rather vote someone I think is scum than vote a town out for the sake of lynching.

VOTE: Suspicious

um who the fuck is bailey's partner ???

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dang theres no point in reasoning with bailey i think he genuinely Does Not Understand

i retract what i said about partner being offline i don't think a partner would be able to explain it to him either

oh ddl might be, i guess

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ok

i'm going to be asleep at deadline (2am in the morning for me i think)

i can vote bailey now. i have to check what the vc is first

i am not confident he's flipping scum (he's either town or scum who's trying his hardest to dumbtell), but if he's the best chance we have of getting a lynch in the next couple of hours i'll vote him anyways; i very much don't want a no lynch day1

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voting georgebailey: 4
suspicious
tictac
vorkuta
drdolittle (has been offline from before pr claims)

zenith, skitter, january, jamelia(?) not voting

bailey voting vork

VOTE: tictac
Because I townread tictac.
And I'm probably wrong..

so:

4 on bailey (sus, tictac, vork, ddl)
1 on vork (bailey)
1 on tictac (zenith)

3 not voting (me, january, jamelia)

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should i hammer now?

ftr i think vork is my strongest scumread atm

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also this is a bizarre pov to come from scum i think ^

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i think it's 2 of {bailey, ddl, vork, tictac}

with vork/bailey/ddl being the most likely, probably in that order

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ok i need to sleep

VOTE: george

sorry if you're town :/

we need a lynch to happen tho and i don't think anything else is happening in the next 1.5 hours.

strongly want to look at vork tom

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ya i'm not confident you're flipping scum but i'm not sure what else to do here

hope to see you around sometime again, enjoyed playing with you

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i am not confident he's flipping scum (he's either town or scum who's trying his hardest to dumbtell), but if he's the best chance we have of getting a lynch in the next couple of hours i'll vote him anyways; i very much don't want a no lynch day1

[skitter30]

also i would like to open today with a scumread on skitter

i would like to lynch them today

thoughts?

Ok let's talk about this

VOTE: vork

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*talk about how you want to lynch me

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Vork what happened to the creepy fawning thing?

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huh- CJ being december's hypo!scum partner would explain this comment- there's a night/day difference between CJ's and skitters level of..... 'involvement' in the game.

This is said in the main thread because ...?

[skitter30]

reading between the lines "can I get a better scum partner PLEASE???"

Again, said in the main thread because ...

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And who knows what plan of action they've decided on in their scumPT but "hey lets distance and stir up a bit of drama for show" sounds alright, especially considering bailey's "dying remark" was "its skitter- vork u suk btw"

Explain this very slowly

- why does this distancing need to happen ?
- why is bailey's dying remark relevant here ?
- why doesnt january vote me if we're distancing ?

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skitter and papa leaf are just players that I probably will never be able to read confidently and the hypothetical utility that they may bring to town will outweigh any case I may come up with for lynching either of them early.

This thing that you've done the last three times i've played with you ^

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LAMIST points
I even pointed it out back when

There's literally no reason to say this either of those in the main thread, why would you get LAMIST points for this

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@tictac i had that doc/zen theory for a lot of day1 as well but i think zenith eod was townie

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I'm genuinely concerned with this line of questioning but I'll bite

This line of questioning is concerning because ...

Dont do the half-assed shading, go on, flesh it out

It's a decent play designed to shake off any pressure that remained off of D1 and preempt any big plays
Pick a fight with your scumbuddy and after a few pages you'll have the consensus of "either it's TvT or TvS, but NOT SvS"

Given that she's the consensus tr outside the masons this needs to happen because ...

(Even more so in a newbie game) from what I've noticed quite a few people take the dying declaration of a mislynched townie with some weight.

A) that kinda holds for nks but doesnt usually hold for people who got lynched, people in general dont pay that attention to the lynchee's reads
B) why does bailey saying it's me mean me/january need to distance
C) i dont think bailey even said it was me at eod

-scumday so I decided to celebrate by growing up
-look how well it worked for me in said last game
-would you rather I turn off my brain and revert back?

I dont feel like this is a natural progression from the last three games.

What you decide you can't read me, i fleece you, and from there you go all in on a scumread without referencing how you can't read me?

I dont get it

Ofc it's not "mechanically optimal" but I can totally see someone with a bit of personality making those comments both facetiously and 'seriously'.

In my last newbie game my partner went awol and i went out of my way to avoid calling attention to this sort of thing in the main thread, not really sure why someone would do that tbh

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It's concerning because it doesn't have (or at least I can't find) the markings/intentions of "town-solvey" skitter.

Because ...

That's BS and you know it- "I feel like we should" and "for shits and giggles" is enough incentive/motivation/justification for 99% of the players here

A) i disagree that 99% of players would do it for those reasons
B) but even if i concede that number, *i'm* not a player who would play that way with her partner, and i'm the other half of the team you're proposing

Why do *i* decide this is a good idea here

A- let's agree to very much disagree. It's too straightforward to NK someone simply because their reads were on point. While the 'collective feeling of guilt' of a mislynch might prompt people to honor his last wishes
B- as a contingency for if/when september flips red, you'll be as far away from her as possible and have no problems reaching the home stretch.

A) you're portraying this to be a lot more common than it actually is - i rarely see people giving that much weight to lynched town's reads, more weight is usually given to nks' reads
B) in the current gamestate i'm more likely to flip before january so uh why do i play around this scenario

-I got bored of that spiel
-I think I genuinely might have something this game- not from YOU (no, you would be way too good to slip up like this you said you missed the fawning), but from your newbie partner.
-doing the same thing over and expecting different results is some definition of insanity
-Again: would you rather I roll over?

- have a hard time seeing your trajectory on me changing so drastically in such a short timespan
- if you think you caught my newbie partner why are you voting me. This whole thing reads like you found a narrative to push so you are, not like you actually believe a me/january team
- i have a hard time believing town!you wants me lynched yesterday (or i guess today, but less so)

I don't like how the crux of your defense is "a mechanically optimal or otherwise perfect player wouldn't do any of the things" and how you're shifting the definitions. I am presenting a very plausible scenario, backed up with bits of evidence, slightly liberal assumptions, and my own personal experience.

Can you give me enough credit to play intelligently, ty.

The scenarios you're pushing are plausible, sure, but not especially likely, especially from me, and i think you know that. I dont particularly think you believe anything you're pushing here

Whereas you're basically demanding "screenshots of their scumPT" levels of evidence necessary for my points to have any validity in your eyes.
Which is a scum!skitter play

This is overinflationary rhetoric and doesnt accurately represent my position or what i'm saying

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- why doesnt january vote me if we're distancing ?

VOTE: skitter30

I'd much rather vork today

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January, why am i scum?

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A) you're portraying this to be a lot more common than it actually is - i rarely see people giving that much weight to lynched town's reads, more weight is usually given to nks' reads

I can see how it could make sense to put more weight on the NK reads. Because why did scum choose that player for death, maybe they were onto something?

Though in this particular game I doubt there will be much to read into NK motivations, beyond not wanting to bring confirmed masons into endgame. Whether the masons were onto something or not, they seem to be the most likely NK target.

i agree with your point, but this isn't quite the point i was making

living townies tend not to listen to dead townies' reads, i find. as you pointed out, if anything, they might listen to a townie who got nk'd - after all, why did scum nk them?

i don't find that people listen to a lynched townie's reads that often

that's why i find vork's suggestion - that me/january are deliberately distancing in order to make sure people don't listen to bailey going after me (which i'm not actually, like, sure he's done) to be mildly ridiculous

[skitter30]

find me a single person who has EVER had a single (non-mechanical) valid reason to scum!read skitter.
shit's impossible yo

stop building me up to be some sort of boogeyman, this isn't true

[skitter30]

Either way, bailey's dying declaration is not the crux of my read,

more like a convenient detail that I'm choosing to incorporate into my narrative.

a) can you, like, quote this declaration
b) i find the bolded to scummy

[skitter30]

My final verdict on this: If this is town!skitter, I would be very dissapointed. The more likely option is that this is scum!skitter.

well you've succeeded in pissing me off

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You make it sound like I shouldn't even try to read skitter, like I should just hope that she is town because scum skitter sounds scary.

well, kinda, he's trying to scare you into paranoia lynching me

[skitter30]

You make it sound like I shouldn't even try to read skitter, like I should just hope that she is town because scum skitter sounds scary.

Correct
Excellent

I'm so glad we're on the same page.

There are many people who brag about such abilities/skills (particularly in their sigs), but IMHO skitter is someone who's probably actually legitimately deserved phrases like these thrown her way

oh i forgot to respond to this one
if i'm good enough that you're fearmongering me like this, give me enough credit to play intelligently and not just do dumb things for the lols, ty

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that gif is ... incredibly disturbing

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and i see it as there's 1 maf between you and vork

?
There's two scum ...

[skitter30]

although right now vork is just flat out imagining stuff...
i think it's just that he genuinely believes it though bc i don't see mafia wanting me lynched so bad that they just make stuff up

He does, in fact, make stuff up as scum sometimes, i've played a game with him where he did just that

[skitter30]

Subject: Mini Normal 2080 ft. My Cats [Game Over]

This miller push is gross, Vorkuta is making up reasons to continue pushing this and also grandstanding about how confident he should be in this. Nero Cain's play is gross, would vote there too.

VOTE: Vorkuta

^ i can find more quotes supporting this but i had to reread the first few pages of this game, it's been a few months

Vork was scum here

[skitter30]

He's doing the same thing here, using overinflated rhetoric and making up stuff to push me

[skitter30]

Oh i even have a bunch of relevant quotes from game, but they're hard to pull on a phone (just spent a while trying before giving up) so i'll get them when i'm on a pc in a bit

[skitter30]

-Ssure. Let's ignore the main point, not attack the actual ARGUMENT, but focus on my rhetoric
That's a surefire way to get a fair and proper discussion going.

I have been attacking your argument, and your methof of delivering it is scummy too

[skitter30]

Please keep on ignoring the point of "January made the play and skitter went 'meh' "
It really convinces my read on you /s

I dont play like that, for the most part

[skitter30]

Time to revisit TwofoldC9++ and EMM again for me to demonstrate that you 'demanding scumPT screenshots levels of evidence' is your way of shutting down arguments and scumplay.

?
I dont know what you're talking about
I dont know what 'demanding scum pt screenshot levels of evidence' means exactly, or how i'm meant to be doing that

I dont know why you think i'm cherry-picking or taking things out of context, your cinnamon push in cats (wherein i accused you of making stuff up and grandstanding) was a major reason why i scumread you there day1

And i should just ignore meta, you're suggesting?
So when january goes 'i dont think scum vork makes stuff up to push a lynch' and i have substantial evidence to the contrary i should just ignore that?

[skitter30]

u mean the revere reads thing?
I dunno how he's exploring that when I'm not gonna be lynched and am currently sleeping so can't react to it.

i'm not sure what you mean by this

Inflated? yes, but this point does resonate with me. ref 352.
Skitt: if this is something ya been accused of as town, a link would be appreciated.

i'm not sure what you're asking for here

I actually don't see ya doing that w vork, but I do think ya did that w my Jam-push.

ok, where do you think i'm doing that?

[skitter30]

As of recent your focus has shifted towards my delivery, not my core points.

because i feel like:

a) many of the points are bs, which you've admitted
b) i've refuted the important ones already

i'm not sure why i should keep refuting the same points you're bringing up when i've already done so and half of them are overinflated anyways

Once again- it's not "directly" your play, but your play "by proxy" which I'm bringing into question.

ok, it's more accurate to say that i don't interact with my partners this way, better?

Scum!skitter is more interested in redirecting the gameflow and SUBTLY shutting down uncomfortable lines of inquiry and one of the more effective ways I've seen her do it is by inflating the level of proof/evidence necessary for her to acknowledge a claim to a level that is much higher than what town!skitter would require to join along on the journey.

i don't think i play this way as scum. or, more accurately, i don't consciously play this way as scum, and i can't think of any examples where i've done this offhand
where do you think i do this?

LIKE your Dunn quote just now.
I could dig up the ~5 quotes from that game where I explicitly and quite successfully IMHO shut down that line of nonsense from dunn and the relevant back-and-forth necessary to undestand what's up.
I could also waste even more time trying to recall my thought process as I was making said miller push and clearly explain why and how "that 1 miller push I did in that game" is different from "this skitter push I'm doing right now".

i don't think this is clogging up the thread, i think it's *imminently* relevant to what you're doing right now
i brought a parallel where you've done something similar as scum
don't sidestep it by saying you dont' want to talk about it
explain how it's different

explain how i'm looking at this wrong.

you're making up reasons to push me, which other people (i.e. january) acknowledge. and when you've been called out on it, you've admitted it.
january thinks you wouldn't make up stuff as scum to push someone

i provided an instance where you did just that (and where other players in that game accused you of doing just that)
now don't tell me to do ignore it, or that i'm pulling quotes out of context.
if you think i am show me i am, don't just handwave it away because you don't want to answer it

[skitter30]

Just do this thought experiment with me: put yourself in the shoes of a newbie with an AWOL scumpartner.

january's indignant response to this accusation indicates that she wouldn't have the mindset you're giving her if she was in this situation

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

Bailey's flailing so hard and voting conf town in 579. This is flipping red

Why would scum vote a confirmed town? It doesn't make sense.

Much more likely bailey was just confused. I don't see that particular incident as AI.

i feel like scum would be pushing bailey harder here, given how surface-level scummy baily was being, and not back off

VOTE: tictac
Because I townread tictac.
And I'm probably wrong..

i don't think scum makes this push either

there's a certain amount of illogic here that i think scum would find hard to make up/fake
like it's too audacious to come from scum almost

Maybe it makes my ego feel slightly better that they were secret buddies with their own secret PT.

i feel like this is a quasi towntell
(it doesn't *quite* hit all the points i'm looking for for it to be a strong towntell, but it's close)

^ @tictac these are things i liked from zenith at eod

[skitter30]

"scumPT levels of evidence demanded" is kind of the kicker and it still stands uncontested (fmv).
*reads a bit more*
Oh the irony of you demanding more evidence from me

because i don't understand what this means or where i'm doing it
i don't think i'm demanding that level of evidence
i don't understand how what i'm asking is demanding this level of evidence

if i understood what this meant or where you think i'm doing this i could respond to it better but as of right now i can't respond to this because i still don't know what this means or how this encapsulates my play

can you like quote something of mine and explain exactly why/where/how you think i'm doing this ? that might help

[skitter30]

It's funny because you're quite more willing to cut through the flowery rhetoric and address the spirit of my argument when you're town.

i feel like i am ...

[skitter30]

Time to revisit TwofoldC9++ and EMM

i understand that you think i did this in these games
i'm saying that i don't think this categorizes my play in either

can you refer to a specific incident in either where you think i've done this or ...

[skitter30]

vork i feel like it's hard to respond to you because you're making up things and i can't prove negatives

[skitter30]

It was always a "hey, IF (insert main point here) THEN it would also maybe explain (casual detail that may or may not fit into the story)"

And you guys are attacking the antecedent.
And I'm like
And as a result you guys seem to have the impression that "oh vork was just BSing the whole time"

ok ?

it might help if you presented the 'minor afterthought details' as such then, don't get annoyed with other people for not understanding you when you're not communicating clearly

[skitter30]

Present your best quotes from whatever game.

Or was dunn's the only one?
Because that one sucked.

a) i will when i can take a bit more of a break at work
b) no, that quote didn't, it encapsulates you making a similar play there as you did here so

[skitter30]

-The push on skitter in this game is clearly (1) not designed to impress anyone, (2) not a way for me to pass as dumb!town, is clearly (3) not on a 'simple target', clearly

(4) has repercussions if godforbid I'm wrong about it,

and if you succeed in knocking down the crux of my case with this exchange, then (5) I will have no valid grounds upon which to scum read you.

my good man, if you do succeed in getting me lynched today i'm going to do everything in my ability to make sure you're next, just letting you know

i don't think that these points are particularly relevant. the particularly reasons for *why* you did what you're doing i don't think matter really

you're utlizing the same tactic: make up bs to push people
*why* you're doing it i don't think is relevant
you haven't really shown that i've taken it out of context either

now if you can show me you making up bs to push people as town i'd view that as a reason to view your current push on me as being less scummy
god-awful, sure, but less ai

as of right now i only have examples of scum!you doing it

[skitter30]

I read it as 30% tongue-in-cheek, 30% defensive, 30% 'lawl you got me, now let me try brushing it off with sarcasm' and 10% slightly forced

no

[skitter30]

"scumPT levels of evidence demanded" is kind of the kicker and it still stands uncontested (fmv).
*reads a bit more*
Oh the irony of you demanding more evidence from me

because i don't understand what this means or where i'm doing it
i don't think i'm demanding that level of evidence
i don't understand how what i'm asking is demanding this level of evidence

if i understood what this meant or where you think i'm doing this i could respond to it better but as of right now i can't respond to this because i still don't know what this means or how this encapsulates my play

can you like quote something of mine and explain exactly why/where/how you think i'm doing this ? that might help

like you're repeatedly accusing me of doing something that you admit is hyper-inflated rhetoric, and then get mad at me that i can't adequately disprove something that you admit you overinflated to make a point

i don't know what you expect of me here exactly. i can't disprove that i'm doing it to this level when you keep calling everything i'm doing this because you like the phrase and think it sounds colorful

And who knows what plan of action they've decided on in their scumPT but "hey lets distance and stir up a bit of drama for show" sounds alright, especially considering bailey's "dying remark" was "its skitter- vork u suk btw"

like i obviously can't disprove this accusation by showing you screenshots of the scum pt

but i've argued it the way i can, by explaining why: a) i don't play like this, b) the association doesn't make sense c) there's no motivation for me to do this anyways

there's nothing much else i can do given that i don't actually have the proof you want from me
and the fact that i can't provide this doesn't mean that my response isn't valid
if it meant my response isn't valid it would be impossible to play mafia

Whereas you're basically demanding "screenshots of their scumPT" levels of evidence necessary for my points to have any validity in your eyes.

what exactly am i demanding 'screenshots of their scum PT' levels of evidence for even.
like you keep bandying about this statement but i don't know what you're applying it to, or what it means.

if you're talkinig about why i dislike your push on me/january, as stated above, i've given multiple reasons why it doesn't make sense. to me i feel like i've refuted the push. i don't know what i'm demanding this level of evidence for.

like yes, i'm shutting down your arguments because i think they're ridiculous and largely rhetorical and that you don't believe them
like should i not expect you to make sense when you make arguments ...

[skitter30]

you know what, i don't think this is a fruitful conversation
we're either communicating horrifically or you're scum

i don't think this is going anywhere

@ everyone not named vork, if you'd like to talk to me about my play, please let me know

[skitter30]

I defended zen because his posts pinged me as town during my catchup. Although I didn't really like his eod posts, and today's skirting around.

@Zen

what's your read on the game state and who is scum?

I only glanced at vork vs skitter, but I'll give it another in depth read later. I'm really not sure how to think about it since I've never seen vork so aggresive and im scared.

But I'm trying to figure out how does january play a role in all this. I don't see vork's (jan, skit) pair, both independently from jan and the partnership doesn't make sense. Plus 734 is very town.

hi, let's talk about your reads and who you want to lynch today:

- i'm p sure sus has siteflaked and will be prodded shortly
- i think january and zenith are probably town, january stronger than zenith. tictac is just north of the null line. i don't have a reason to townread you
- i think you need to form an opinion on me/vork

- currently i would like to lynch vork, and you're where i'm looking at next
- i noted teh same associtiatives as tictac between you/zenith, and it makes me slightly wary

[skitter30]

Again if anyone else would like to have a discussion with me about that lmk ^

[skitter30]

I meant post 690

ya i realized and acknowledged that later

I feel like even if ya disagreed w my Jam-read it would fall into 'i can see why he thinks that' category.
Your tone when talking w me was 'that is wrong and ya have no reason to think that', which I feel was unreasonable, especially w ya gutreading me as town.
I think this might be AI for ya, but I'm not sure, so I asked for a self-meta counterexample to disprove it. I'll take that as a defense if ya got a good one.

i have like ~ethical~ issues with people using things like 'last time seen on site' timestamps to form reads
i feel like it's out of the bounds of the game and is only available as a method to read people at all as a limitation of the medium that we're playing the game in
if we could ban this sort of read i would be very happy to do so

sometimes people just check the site without checking all their games
he was in another game that has since ended that was in lylo (ep's newbie), and i find it viable that he may have checked the site to check in with the more urgent lylo situation he was dealing with instead of this game
i don't find this to be ai and i don't like that you were using this as a basis for the read at all, which is why i objected to it

like i can definitely understand where the read stems from but i disagree with using timestamp-based tells like this to form reads; it also feels semi-stalker-y to me
and in general i believe it when people mention irl situations as a reason for why they didn't post, i kinda want to believe that people won't lie about this sort of thing

you want an example of where my tone was 'that is wrong and you have no reason to think that' while gutreading someone as town?
i had that tone because i fundementally object to these sorts of tells in an abstract/ethical sense

it does occur to me tho, that with nightkills being tied up with getting rid of the masons, lynching town!skitt is 100% what scum!vork would need to do if doesn't want to be at lylo w her, which he would not want.
so i guess what I'm trying to say is: skitt & vork. If ya guys are in a tvt, ya need to work it out cause it's fairly disasturous to gamestate if that's the case.

why would you prefer to lynch me over vork?
i don't think the back-and-forth i've had with vork is beneficial anymore at this point; i think he's arguing word salad and nonsense and that the back-and-forth is fucking with the gamestate, which is why i've stopped it. if people want me to i could, but i think the as-is arguing makes it hard for other people to follow

I'll add that I don't think threats like this are constructive if ya town.
Ya in a category of players whose reads I actually would listen to postmortem if ya flip town.
I need them to accurately represent your view on what is true.

i know, i'm usually an exception to the 'dead people don't get listened to' rule
i very strongly believe he's scum
if you lot want to lynch me first it's my job to make sure you understand what you need to do when i flip town.
(this wasn't like a ~vengeful~ type thing, if you read it that way. i'm saying that if i go i want everyone to understand where i believe scum to be, and i'm going to do my best to secure that lynch for after my greenflip when i can't actively work towards it anymore)

[skitter30]

i had that tone because i fundementally object to these sorts of tells in an abstract/ethical sense

So gimme an example where ya did that as town.
I need something to check/compare here.

why would you prefer to lynch me over vork?

I TR vork day1 scumread on me and his flip on Bailey.
I don't have a reason to TR ya and I think the tone-thing might be AI, I'll think over yer response to that tho.
I'm also not sure I buy ya nullreading me here, but that part might be BoP.

i don't remember the last time specifically the 'last seen timestamp' came up
but in general i don't like it when people use out-of-game things to try to get an in-game advantage in some way

i

Spoiler:

object to trust tells:

Subject: Mini Normal 2080 ft. My Cats [Game Over]

I didn't tell the mod I wouldn't replace if scum so I don't think it's a trust tell. I don't see anything wrong with exclusively replacing into slots that I strongly townread? I also don't see anything wrong with using that fact to argue that I'm very likely town.

i mean the quote that you linked basically said you'd rep-out of scumgames so

and there's been other mafia-related ickiness today and i just don't really want to deal with it really

not sure if it's really relevant to anything or if i want to continue this convo there either really

(she was trying to use this to prove herself town. it *did* make her town, i was p sure, but i dont' believe in such things so i don't think i ever vocalized a read on her using this)

Subject: Mini Normal 2080 ft. My Cats [Game Over]


He's trying to pick a fight with me when i indicated that i dont want to for non this-game-related reasons, and been twisting what i said to imply/indicate that I'm faking emotions in order to avoid talking to him, which i wouldnt do; and i think it's kinda icky that he's implying that i would.

[/quote]

objecting to this notion of faking irl emotions to score some points in an internet game

Subject: Mini Normal 2081 — My First Game! [Game Over]

skitter ur not gonna get my lynch

and i dont particularly tr you or your convenient absences either but oh well

i mean you were townreading me like five minutes ago, but ok
and calling my absences kinda convenient is kinda gross given that:

a) i'm v/la literally every friday and saturday - it's the first post i make in every single game, so suggesting that has anything to do with this game or gamestate in particular is kinda bad and almost insulting
b) i can't play at work (or at least not consistently), but i catchup every night afterwards

it's not like i randomly disappear for multiple days at a time

getting upset when people cast aspersion on irl stuff ^
(i do this as scum too. i.e. when people try to pull this trick and complain someone is scummy for irl reasons i'll usually object to it)

basically when things start getting ~out of game ~ i feel like it crosses some sort of line into irl and i don't like it

also i didn't say i was nullreading you, i said you were north of the null line, which means i'm lightly townreading you
not strongly, mind you, but it's inaccurate to say i'm nullreading you

i don't feel like most of what you've done is particularly hard to come from scum
or, in other words, i don't feel like i have a good reason to townread you

[skitter30]

and i see it as there's 1 maf between you and vork

?
There's two scum ...

yes i know...
i never said everyone else was town...

i misread ur post then

[skitter30]

with regards to 798

skit - i get why you say you have an ethical or whatever dislike for tic’s read on jamelia. i don’t think i ever agreed with the actual read, but my evaluation was based on whether I thought tictac would make that argument as town or as mafia. basically, even if u find the read to be bad or unfounded or immoral - do you think he would have made that argument as scum?

i don't have a strong opinion on whether it's more likely to come from scum

i think that some people wouldn't make that sort of argument for like ~ethical and gameplay boundary reasons~ but if he's ok with it i could see other alignment making it

i don't find the argument to be particularly ai, just not particularly valid

i do think that when i pointed out some townie behaviors jamelia was exhibiting that he should have reconsidered the read more

[skitter30]

I don't know how I feel about skitter, but Vork's hypothesis in 774 makes sense to me and it does sound like skitter this game.

There's likely a decent chance Vork is scum, because I honestly don't see Vork being scum. I explored the possibility but just don't see it.
UNVOTE: Vork

@Vork
If January were to flip town, would you still be scum reading skitter?
If not, then do you think it could be better to lynch january instead of skitter?
If you would still scum read her, then who is her partner if jan flips town?

a) no, his theory does not make sense and is not, in fact, based on how i play scum
b) why are you townreading vork

[skitter30]

I don't know why town skitter would lie about this.
The lie coming from scum skitter sort of kinda fits into the vork 774 hypothesis, but still seems quite odd. But I really don't see you still not understanding the meaning.

no, i don't understand what it means in this context
no, i wouldn't pick a fight over this as scum, i would just try to appease him and move on
no, i wouldn't lie about this as either alignment, i don't understand what he wants and as scum i don't play dumb, ty

[skitter30]

i think vork's arguments are kinda ridiculous and nonsensical and i'm not sure why i'm the only one who sees that; i'm kinda confused why people are treating them like they have merit

(inb4 someone informs me it's because i'm scum, so just saying this for later)

[skitter30]

i think 791 was moonlogic and word salad, but ok

i just hope we're not tvt

[skitter30]

what i am demanding proof about vs looking for evidence that the opinion is arrived at in a natural way

i don't know what we're applying that to ^

[skitter30]

concrete proof for what argument ffs

what does he want concrete proof for? or what does he think i want an unreasonably amount of evidence for

that's what i'm confused about and what i've been trying to say
it's a phrase that he's bandying about but i don't. know. what. argument. it's being. applied. to. other. than. in. a. vague. generic. sense.

[skitter30]

because he's throwing around the phase like it should mean something but i still don't know what it's being used in context of

and not you, nor tictac, nor vork have answered that so far

ok, say i'm demanding scumpt screenshot levels of evidence ... for what exactly ?
do you know? can you answer that question? think about it for a minute. if you can't ... what is he accusing me of exactly ?

it's an empty phrase that sounds good but doesn't actually mean anything as far as i can tell because it's being used to hand-wave away my arguments generically without actually being attached to anything in particular

[skitter30]

of course that's the point

ok
spell it out like i'm 5 because i'm obviously not getting it:
a) articulate what the phrase 'demandign scumpt screenshot levels of evidence' is being applied to.

tell me in your own words where and how i'm doing that,

don't just quote vork
b) what point do you think i'm ignoring?

[skitter30]

yes, i'm aware, ty

[skitter30]

of course that's the point

ok
spell it out like i'm 5 because i'm obviously not getting it:
a) articulate what the phrase 'demandign scumpt screenshot levels of evidence' is being applied to.

tell me in your own words where and how i'm doing that,

don't just quote vork
b) what point do you think i'm ignoring?

Where, how, who doing what, when, why, whatev

er, etc is irrelevant to my point.

The point is that you know what the words: "demanding scupt pt levels of evidence" mean. It means demanding concrete proof. You have been repeatedly told what it means. You do know what it means.. And yet for some weird reason, me trying to get you to admit that you understand basic english, you act like I'm trying to pull out your teeth or something. WHY?

Yes, but it's the point i've been trying to make this whole time

Of course i know what the literal words mean, it would be ridiculous for either you or me to suggest that i dont

I'm saying it's a meaningless phrase in context. No one, including yourself, can explain the context apparently

It is not, and never was, my point that i dont understand what the words literally mean, and this is a really ridiculous strawman for you to hang your hat on

Maybe i didnt make myseld clear, but when i said: 'i dont know what this phrase means' i meant 'this phrase is meaningless and doesnt actually make sense in the context vork is using it'

Like do you really think i dont know what the english phrase means ... ?

The fact that this is your argument is quite disturbing tbh

[skitter30]

I'm not hammering anything before the replacer catches up, fyi.
doc being quiet rn is worriesome.
more from me later tonight, hopefully.

Tomorrow plz:

- vork
- focus on ddl, i think it's scummy of him to be so quiet rn and not take a stance
- zenthi because he's strawmanning to the point that i think he's deliberately misunderstanding me

[skitter30]

i'm nervous i've misread vork

Ddl i'm feeling wary of your play for reasons i cant fully talk about rn

Zenith's argument with me here .... is not a good look
It doesn't entirely make sense to go from 'skitter is good so i'll loltown her because otherwise there isn't a good way to read her' to 'skitter is scummy for trying to push an argument that she doesnt literally know what an english phrase means'

I'm not sure this progression makes much sense. Steadfastly believing that the explanation for what i was trying to say is that i dont literally understand what an English phrase means is kinda silly, especially in the context that he was willing to believe that i'm halfway decent at this

I'd like to think all scum are in here
But i also feel like i'm playing some twilight zone edition of this game where 4 other people read word salad and go: huh that makes sense
Which makes me lowkey wary of january and tictac as well, slightly wary that they're just taking advantage of a good bandwagon to ride a mislynch

Please note the lack of cw and the fact that every active player is cool with this, this quite often signals a mislynch (which is why i'm wary of tictac/january, they fit the profile of scum taking advantage of this)

(inb4: shading whole wagon on myself
these are my thoughts on how the wagon is going down for whichever of you is town tomorrow , ty)

I'd like to think, like i said, that all scum are in ddl/vork/zenith tho

[skitter30]

Plz no lynch before replacement, ty

[skitter30]

i'm nervous i've misread vork

Nm

[skitter30]

- focus on ddl, i think it's scummy of him to be so quiet rn and not take a stance

like, I cant even take a stance because i haven't waded through your exchange with vork seriously.

Fair enough, i hope you feel better soon, plz take care of yourself

[skitter30]

I'm not sure if i can think of any examples offhand beyond what i've linked already

[skitter30]

Tictac, can you quote some posts in this game where you think i exhibited that tone?

[skitter30]

a) articulate what the phrase 'demandign scumpt screenshot levels of evidence' is being applied to. tell me in your own words where and how i'm doing that, don't just quote vork

So would you like to answer this now, zenith?

[skitter30]

2. I never believed you didn't understand the phrase.

You were literally just pushing me on this basis

[skitter30]

The point is that you know what the words: "demanding scupt pt levels of evidence" mean. It means demanding concrete proof. You have been repeatedly told what it means. You do know what it means.. And yet for some weird reason, me trying to get you to admit that you understand basic english, you act like I'm trying to pull out your teeth or something. WHY?

i mean ...

would you like to respond to 851 now?

[skitter30]

i'm proving a point

[skitter30]

can you answer it or not

[skitter30]

can you articulate what vork was accusing me of, yes or no?

like can you actually describe where i was demanding scumpt screenshots levels of evidence?

i don't care whether or not you accused me of this rn, i just want to know if you can coherently answer this question ^

[skitter30]

a) articulate what the phrase 'demandign scumpt screenshot levels of evidence' is being applied to. tell me in your own words where and how i'm doing that, don't just quote vork

So would you like to answer this now, zenith?

january and/or tictac if either of you can do this that would be cool too

[skitter30]

also i'm a she

[skitter30]

I've seen you disagree with and dismiss things, but I haven't seen you blatantly demand scum pt screenshot levels of evidence. If you have done such a thing, I've either missed it or it's subtle, because I only see it coming from the re-wording in Vork's narrative, and even there it isn't blatant.

yes, thank you this is the point i'm trying to bring out ^

vork's been accusing me of this, and everyone's been nodding along and going 'oh yeah, that makes sense' but i *haven't actually been doing that anywhere*

this is why i was saying i dont' understand the accusation, because in context of what i've been doing it's irrelevant and meaningless

and when i spent like forever pointing out that the argument is nonsense and designed to make me look bad, i got wagoned

[skitter30]

plz no hammer till everyone is caught up and on the same page

[skitter30]

why do you find the bolded scummy?

Because it feels like he's cherry-picking facts out of contsxt to support his case

[skitter30]

I don't think it's that hard to understand at all. Feels a bit gaslight-y. Sure vorkuta's case is not 100 percent watersealed but I feel like what you are doing is asking a bunch of questions and trying to catch him off guard rather than responding in good faith idk... It's different than [redacted] evidence.

No

[skitter30]

I buy this. Actually up to this point, I felt the same way in this exchange, in that the burden of proof that you place on vork is absurd, where as he is really in good faith trying to engage you.

Can you, perhaps, point to a place where i'm doing that?

[skitter30]

> Explain?

Not on a phone, maybe when i'm on a pc tom night

[skitter30]

I'm not hammering anything before the replacer catches up, fyi.
doc being quiet rn is worriesome.
more from me later tonight, hopefully.

Tomorrow plz:

- vork
- focus on ddl, i think it's scummy of him to be so quiet rn and not take a stance
- zenthi because he's strawmanning to the point that i think he's deliberately misunderstanding me

is there any other reason why you are scumreading me?

i actually want to flush this out a bit more.

Well i actually recant the being quiet thing as being ai if its due to irl stuff

But i currently do not like your support of vork or your tictac scumlean

I also did not townread fancy

[skitter30]

Fair enough

[skitter30]

I'm lowkey nervous, actually, by zenith/jan/tictac flipping sides like that

[skitter30]

hi sorry just got the email

i've been catching up with this thread, just have a big paper due in a few hours and i promise i'll participate after this

UNVOTE:
i know vork's been using some shady logic but not really ready to vote him
will decide if anything's changed by noon tomorrow pacific time

I'm confused where this came from

[skitter30]

oh it was like "i haven't really been paying attention recently so I'm going to take my vote off" or something like that

more of a signal that i'm going to be back and figure things out before i vote

Ok fair enough, i misunderstood what you meant

Plz elaborate on vork towntelling

UNVOTE: to prevent hammer

[skitter30]

Is your unvote an "nvm skitter is town"

I read it as a townreading me unvote but apparently i was mistaken

[skitter30]

Idk more preventing the day ending than anything

I acknowledge the possibility that i may be tunneled, so if january has strong reasoms to townread him i'd like to hear them

I mean what do you think i'm accomplishing as scum there?

[skitter30]

Ok but you telling me that is not helpful if i am so

Hence asking for other povs

[skitter30]

feels like she knows she'll get lynched tomorrow if/when vorkuta flips town, so she's backing off and trying to kinda un-associate herself with the push

This is a kinda suboptimal thing for me to be doing as scum here

Do u have reasons for town!vork or ...

[skitter30]

I dont it it why are you guys willing to hammer vork when you think it would flip town

yes this is partly what's making me wary

[skitter30]

But i currently do not like your support of vork or your tictac scumlean

why is it that i could only be town if i support you? that's awfully shady

because i don't understand why he looks townie to you rn

[skitter30]

This is like the stuff that one cannot respond to.

ok? i feel basically like this for most of what he's been pushing so

[skitter30]

like, the greatest weakness of town is people working at cross purposes. If I can make that not be a thing, that's worth some amount of personal agency.
Ya didn't think it was weird when I offered to lynch january on day 1. Why is this different?

uh no
you don't lynch someone you think is town on day2 with several irl days until deadline

[skitter30]

this is possibly the scummiest thing you've said

[skitter30]

anybody up for a zenith lynch today instead of vork?

maybe (?)

[skitter30]

actually i don't want to lynch zenith

[skitter30]

probably vork but i would like to hear why january's townreading him

[skitter30]

I dont really think zenith is flipping scum tbh

He's playing awkwardly, sure, but he's also saying things scum wouldnt imo

[skitter30]

Ok then

VOTE: vork

[skitter30]

PEDIT 972 is ???

It makes tictac obvtown

Also i think u ruled out me/ddl too early

[skitter30]

Ddl i really dont like ur trajectory here

[skitter30]

Because i still dont understand why u think vork's more likely to be making a good faith case than not

[skitter30]

Do you think me/vork is svs?

[skitter30]

I meant svt, sorry

Do u think we're svt?
Actually just rank tvt/svs/svt if you can, please

[skitter30]

Hmm

Ok i'm p sure tictac is town, as is probably zenith
So i'm at 2/3 of vork/ddl/jan, in that order, i think

[skitter30]

No it's because i townread other people more and i doubt it's exactly hou/ddl

I would have liked to hear that tho

[skitter30]

but it sounds good for town play so I wonder why everyone doesn't do this?

It starts verging into trust tells