Newbie 1961 | Trees II | Over

[Suspicious]

Jesus, I haven't even checked in and I almost got bumped off.

VOTE: Fancy

[Suspicious]

Jesus, I haven't even checked in and I almost got bumped off.

VOTE: Fancy

Srs vote?

Do you believe it is?

[Suspicious]

Jesus, I haven't even checked in and I almost got bumped off.

VOTE: Fancy

Srs vote?

Do you believe it is?

I doubt it, but it would be something to talk about.

In a 9-player game, I favor the odds that scum threw in a vote to follow along the wagon. It was mostly a prodding vote to see if you'd have much of a reaction. When it comes down to it, Zenith comes looking worse for letting the L-1 happen in the first place. Bailey basing the RVS off of my name is also an easy route to go for maf to cloak themselves, and the unvote came after Fancy's was visible.

[Suspicious]

It's absolutely likely the wagon was organic due to time conveniences, but the behavior about it doesn't make me lean that way. Consolidation like that makes me think somebody tried to hide because that vote happening to be in vogue at the moment.

[Suspicious]

I want to keep talking with Fancy at the. And I have to say I doubt the initial vote as genuine RVS.

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Pedit: meant 'moment' at the end there.

I essentially want to prod to get opinions right now, and that is the direction I'm starting in.

[Suspicious]

ok then

These days are absurdly long, so I like to maximize their potential usage. What's wrong in trying to figure players out in that timespan?

[Suspicious]

I voted because that's literally the only way to make progress @D1.

Jokes aside, Sus's reaction to said wagon and the follow up interrogation gets him townpoints from me.
But like... come on guys, show a tiny bit of common sense with these questions

Voting to join a wagon is not the only path to getting reactions. Why did you choose that option over others?

[Suspicious]

woah woah woah, I believe that takes him to

L-1.

Scary place to be.

I'm gonna unvote to prevent a hammer.

UNVOTE: Suspicious

I believe he's at

L-2

now

What's wrong with an early L-1?
If scum were on the wagon, would they be more likely to stay there? Or would they be more likely to unvote for potential town points?

FOS

@ Fancy and GeorgeBailey.

In the heat of an early game, if no one is paying close attention, a careless vote/vote for fun can suddenly turn into a majority vote and an immediate mislynch. Not very likely, but not something that should be a threat on the first page of a game. Scum can either sit here or back off; are you implying the vote was scum stacked here?

I voted because that's literally the only way to make progress @D1.

Jokes aside, Sus's reaction to said wagon and the follow up interrogation gets him townpoints from me.
But like... come on guys, show a tiny bit of common sense with these questions

What specifically about his reaction makes you give him town points?

If suspicious is scum, I could see him as an easy early bus for easy distance. But the wagon moved pretty fast, so perhaps his partner got scared and backed off?

Bussing this early makes no sense; a flip wouldn't give any credibility or implicate anyone. There's no benefit for that play, and realistically a lynch on page 1 is highly unlikely; I don't think a strategy would hinge on that.

[Suspicious]

Beautiful start.

Anyways, the reason I didn't do an immediate unvote, is because I don't think the others realized we were putting

Suspicious

at L-1/L-2.
Also,

Fancy's

post and mine are 1 minute apart. Gimme slack here.

Zenith's

naked vote against

Suspicious

seemed strange, and I wanna chalk it up to RVS, but the post was barren of any flavour/reasoning/anything.

VOTE: Zenith

I wanna hear from you bud.

I'll allow slack on the timing since it is narrow, but I won't dismiss the possibility that it was made to seek credibility. #12 comes across as pretty LAMIST in hindsight. The reasoning behind not immediately unvoting was based on gauging the reactions of others I suppose? And then making the judgement call to back off when they did not. If I'm misinterpreting then let me know.

[Suspicious]

@Fancy the post about making an unvote, which I cited in the post, made what appears to be quite a show of swooping in to save the L-1. It paints Bailey positively for ending a mislynch.

In comparison, your unvote looks much more plain and reasoned; simply to avoid a mistake. The following unvote tries very hard to establish that the prior votes were poor.

[Suspicious]

And that quoted portion was directed at you, but I botched it on mobile. Why did you declare tictac as a hard tr in #15?

[Suspicious]

VOTE: CJ
The more pages that pass without him making a first post, the townie he is.
This was too early.

I'd like yer answer to this as well.

Not intended recipient but I'm about to hit 5000

shit

posts worth of mafia

*ahem*
They could be offsite gods and it would be suboptimal for them to share such info so don't get your hopes up.

No offense to Cee, but low-effort seems to be his modus operandi. I don't know if it's AI by itself or not.

[Suspicious]

@Fancy what's your reasoning behind the Bailey vote?

[Suspicious]

I'm still questioning and getting opinions. Like I said, these days being this long leave plenty of room to use votes to gain info. Right now, I'd like more out of Xen/Bailey/jan/Cee before moving forward.

[Suspicious]

I was a bit uncomfy with how fast the votes went onto Suspicious, but I feel like his response to the votes seemed very kneejerk-y with the thing about there being a mafia who voted him. It doesn't seem like a real "read" that comes from actually looking for mafia.

[god i'm so incoherent right now sorry]

Basically to me there's nothing really that makes Bailey's first vote scummy, so this part:

Bailey basing the RVS off of my name is also an easy route to go for maf to cloak themselves

seems like he's just trying to justify something. Basically: Bailey voted that way as a random vote, so saying that Bailey is somehow responsible for the wagon doesn't seem like it's a genuine attempt to find maf. seems like he's just trying to fos everyone who voted

i think this makes sense please tell me if it doesn't

It doesn't make sense considering that is only a portion of my reasoning against Bailey, and a minute one at that. I've gone to justify putting a FoS on them based upon the wagon, true, but also due to the unvote and subsequent reaction they had to it when questioned. Considering you just entered I'll give benefit of the doubt you potentially skipped this; otherwise this is a poor stab at prepping a push.

[Suspicious]

I'm still questioning and getting opinions. Like I said, these days being this long leave plenty of room to use votes to gain info. Right now, I'd like more out of Xen/Bailey/jan/Cee before moving forward.

You said voting gets info. You want more info from Bailey. So vote Bailey?

I'm waiting for them to offer answers. I don't mind having my vote sit for a time.

[Suspicious]

@Jan I would have expected what Fancy did: unvoted, said why, and moved on with further questioning to examine players/the wagon. Bailey's post in comparison comes across as much more of a grandstanding moment to grab town credibility. Their reasoning for the unvote in the first place after being pressured was odd and I'm still waiting on clarification there.

[Suspicious]

@Jan I would have expected what Fancy did: unvoted, said why, and moved on with further questioning to examine players/the wagon. Bailey's post in comparison comes across as much more of a grandstanding moment to grab town credibility. Their reasoning for the unvote in the first place after being pressured was odd and I'm still waiting on clarification there.

understood, but I still FoS you mostly for calling Bailey out in #23 for an obviously random vote.

also, what exactly is wrong about trying to grab credibility? couldn't town try to be credible too?
-still seems like a perfectly normal action from Bailey, but maybe i'm missing something?

anyways, I have a habit of tunneling onto one person so i'll step back and read the other peeps

There's a difference between gaining trust and going explicitly out of the way to make a show of building trust.

Yes, I admit it's not much to go on, but that's what I'm working with now. I want more content out of Bailey and Xen, and until then I don't feel like moving on.

[Suspicious]

First of all, you’re absolutely ridiculous and way too aggressive.

+1
Tone it down ffs- I get that your MO is "power town" and "SPANISH INQUISITION", but your dominating attitude is not helping you score town points with me.

So vote me.

Okay, let's no descend into vote-baiting. This is a one-way ticket to a mislynch on either side of the equation.

[Suspicious]

VOTE: CJ
The more pages that pass without him making a first post, the townie he is.
This was too early.

Hey I'm trying to give effort here and play better.

I don't want to be well known

that

way

I asked a question early, please answer when you're caught up.

Yeah yeah I saw it, I don't feel like answering it yet tho. It forces a half baked read out of me.

Try again later.

Can you try now? Inactivity only hurts if you're town here and you turn into a lynch of convenience. If you have thoughts, bring them out now.

[Suspicious]

You make the claim #41 marks the wagon as a bad option but then turning around to excuse it; yet I state in both quoted portions that an actual lynch was unlikely. The overall point was that, especially in a newbie game, there was an unnecessary risk of a careless vote suddenly causing a majority. You either missed that in my posting or intentionally passed over it, and I favor the latter.

I'm not sure about your confusion in the first portion re: #25 and 27. I concede the wagon could be organic, but I maintain that it likely wasn't. I don't backtrack here, and you're once again engaging in cherry-picking.

[Suspicious]

I would also like you to answer the question I posed there, which you have ignored. What are your reads?

[Suspicious]

I haven't been worried, and trying to make that claim I suppose is trying to make me worried. I simply clarified my words, which you were openly misinterpreting. You're using a lot of strong language to describe my play when really the only one making a fuss right now is you.

You also have once again ignored my questions.

[Suspicious]

126 is finally what I wanted to hear.

@Suspicious Looking at how post 9 and 10 are literally a minute apart, it seemed like it was pretty much the same move I made. Still weary of " I'm fine with putting someone at L1" though.

Although I do agree with Suspicious on the question, I would like to hear your reads on the current game. (I'm guessing Suspicious is scumlean for you?)

Also, that earlier FOS seems a little unfair.

Zen did answer the question about the lynch vote beforehand in #34. Was this insubstantial to you?

[Suspicious]

@Zen you opened in #34 as well with scumleans on Fancy and Bailey, yet you have not returned to this thought since; they seem to just appear without any reasoning. Can you expand here?

[Suspicious]

anyways... haven't voted yet but right now i'd be comfortable voting either Vorkuta or Suspicious and pray that i'm at least half right

still waiting on:
-Vorkuta's answer to #116
-GeorgeBailey's answer to #142
-general reads from Jamelia

(also just figured out how to link posts so yay : )

Can you elaborate on the Vorkuta angle? There are some hints to this in prior posting but no full commitment; #143 takes a step here but doesn't go further.

[Suspicious]

Do you plan on ignoring my questions ad nauseam?

VOTE: Zenith

Tinfoil hat is Bailey/Zen.

[Suspicious]

As I've said before, should make it clear when you are voting someone to L-1. Strong scrum lean on suspicious at this point.

Well, that would be a courtesy that I seemingly didn't deserve early game. #44 you state that an L-1 is never a bad idea here, and then you backtrack upon questioning in #126 that L-1 wasn't intentional, and it was supposed to be L-2 instead. Because other unvotes occurred, you believed that clarification was unnecessary; this is despite being put under suspicion and getting questioned for this action. If the L-1 was a mistake, why didn't you say so immediately to clear yourself?

You double down in #161 that the L-2 was what you were aiming for, but an L-1 is fine and you have no problem with it; you admit that, however, it should have been given a warning. Which once again begs the question, why did you not offer a warning in the first place? What was left was a naked vote that, if you're town here, caused unneeded confusion.

@Suspicious I'd like to hear your case against me. Do you actually think I'm scum? Or is it mere OMGUS reaction?

If you would like to know my case, you'll have to do what you have demonstrated you haven't done and read my ISO. It shouldn't be my job to reiterate my posts/questions for you, especially if you continue to dodge them as you have been doing up to this point. If you are town here, the ball's in your court.

[Suspicious]

Are you generally incapable of reading?

[Suspicious]

Meant #34, in which you directly say:

What's wrong with an early L-1?

You did backtrack, because you never made your intent clear; this is something you could have established by clarifying your vote when it was first posed, instead of letting it sit. You would have cleared yourself of the suspicion laid on after the naked vote. Instead, you stayed out of the thread and let things proceed, which leads me to believe L-1 never bothered you. I didn't say voting me was a mistake either.

Once again, you could have offered a warning/clarification after the fact but chose not to. This leaves nothing but an empty vote that is glaring in context of the others, and it took time before you brought answers, which you are now denying.

Your earlier contradictions are scumleaning to me re: the shifting stances on the L-1 vote, which was intentional/not a bad idea until you decided to change your tune. #126, #129 and #130 are blatant misrepresentations of my posting, and your attempt to put my words in a negative light is noted; there is stronger language used here to imply I am jumpy/worried, which is quite the opposite.

You didn't ask me to bring up my posting, but the implication was there. My point being that, if you're town here, shape up your game and bring reasoning to the table, buckle down and answer questions. Ignoring/dodging isn't helping your case. I'd also like to know what the purpose of #140 was.

[Suspicious]

Break it down for me, then: what have I misunderstood? You said L-1 was fine, then it wasn't fine and should have been warned, and then your intent was L-2 all along. After I posted clarification on the posts you quoted for me, I established how you misunderstood me through either ignoring my whole posts or picking out what suited your narrative best. This is not baseless, and you dismissing it as such reeks of scum not having a good argument prepared.

It's telling to me that your first mode of attack on me was to ignore/dodge, then misrepresent, then make up emotions to fit your case, then insult. And you continue to dodge at this point.

[Suspicious]

For someone claiming to have read every single line of this thread, I don't understand how you can be this ignorant to my case against you re: misrepresentation. It is clear as day in my ISO unless you want to keep dodging, which you once again do here; I will continue to point this out until you decide to finally offer answers. Otherwise, it's clear from here you have no answers available and are getting trapped in a corner.

And I said #44 was a mistake and make a correction to #34, where you ask why an L-1 is a bad idea, the implication being that it is not. You continue that thought moving forward by stating an L-1 is a fine idea but should be clarified beforehand. What am I misrepresenting from you here? This is all in your ISO.

If I'm wrong, tell me why. Right now, you are stuck in a cycle of ignore-dodge-deny. If you're town here, once again, give answers to work with.

[Suspicious]

Really? You said:

you state that an L-1 is never a bad idea here

I never said that L-1 is

never

a bad idea.

And who's really being dodgy here? When I ask why you think I'm scum your response seems to be false accusations and telling me to re-read your ISO. Like, are you wanting me to make a huge wall of poo by responding to every single thing you've said in this entire game? If so, then you can duck off with that. If not, then get to the point already. This back and forth is quickly growing old and tiring while not actually getting anywhere fast.

Haven't you read every single line of this thread? If so, answer the questions there instead of continually asking for them to be brought up. They're already there, so answer them.

Your open disregard towards me is bordering on infuriating. If you are town I don't understand how you're this ignorant.

[Suspicious]

I have already clarified my stance on you. I'd recommend a reread.

[Suspicious]

Yeah, no. I've repeated myself enough. This conversation will drag on as long as you want it to. I can only assume you're trying to frustrate me at this point.

Why should I engage you when you've proven you refuse to read my posts? If you want to have resolved, then you can see what I've posted; not because I am hiding, but because I am beyond exhausted with having to reiterate myself.

I've given your ISO more than enough time. Seems you can be bothered to offer the same initiative, if you so choose to scumread me.

[Suspicious]

Pedit: can't. Mobile sucks.

If I'm being unfair here than tell me. From my perspective you are just annoying the everloving shit out of me.

The questions are not hiding, they are wide out in the open. And not all of them are even asked hy me to begin with, but are from other players.

[Suspicious]

@Zenith since you insist on being difficult, start here:

1. w/r/t #41, what is your opinion on the early vote composition? You seem to imply the vote was stacked.
2. w/r/t #128, what are your reads?
3. #127 and #131 directly refute the claims you made earlier against me and demonstrate how you misrepresented my words. You then lean on making stronger language/baseless claims to fit your chosen narrative.
4. w/r/t #138, you had opening scum reads on Bailey and Fancy. You have never explained this or returned to them in any manner. Do these reads still hold, and why make them in the first place?
5. #177 clarified my stance on you again and your shifting re: the L-1 vote. There has been enough talk about that already and it's not worth harping on anymore; as it stands, you went from L-1 = okay to L-1 only okay if warned, to L-1 is better than L-2 but L-2 was the intent, etc. It's like revisionist history.

[Suspicious]

And @Zenith, what was the purpose of #140?

[Suspicious]

And @Zenith, what was the purpose of #140?

Lol, this coming from the guy who kept telling me to re-read his ISO.
Guess you haven't been paying attention, because I already answered this in #161.

You did not elaborate on any answer in that post. You bolded a word. Answer the question.

You can insult me all you want, but it's not going to get you anywhere.

[Suspicious]

And once again, in lieu of any defense, you go back to insulting me. This on top of earlier dodging, misrepresentation, etc.

Tic's point wasn't over the existence of daytalk, it was regarding the likelihood of you and Bailey being a scumteam.

If you'd like to shake me off of you, I'd recommend something outside of playground jabs. Your conduct has got me all-in for some tunnel time.

[Suspicious]

I mean seriously you're not making any sense.

You asked me a question i had already answered, so I answered it again. Somehow that wasn't good enough, so I answered a third time with clarification to make it as clear as possible. Like, there's nothing to defend there, and how am I dodging when I answered the same ducking question 3 times??

If anyone is insulting you, it's you insulting yourself. You're like a broken record of falsely accusing me of doing the things that you have done. I could go through and point out a list of such activity, but I'm not really in the mood to re-read that mess of a back and forth right now. Maybe I'll get around to that eventually if someone insist, but right now I've got a fever and dealing with your crazy isn't helping.

You literally didn't answer the earlier questions until I brought them up again. Your attack against me was completely baseless, which I pointed out, and apparently you don't think it exists. You took my words out of context and I've taken yours at face value until you decide to switch your stance.

You boil down to saying I'm crazy, etc. You know I'm right and you're frozen out of making a defense.

If you had clarified things earlier this point wouldn't have been reached, yet here we are. I don't take kindly to being ignored, which you inarguably did, and going for insults is a last resort and a lazy defense.

I am only repeating myself because you have forced me to time and time again. If you want this to stop, propose a different lynch, using your own thoughts and not sheeping.

Which makes me ask, why take your vote off me in the first place?

[Suspicious]

I think the rest of town being quiet while Zen/Tic are fighting me/Suspic.

yea. tbh I'm kinda uncomfortable w that.
fancy should be back soon, at least.

The fact no one has interjected much at all is the one thing making me doubt a Zen vote here. It seems as though it is being given a free pass to go through and I don't buy that kind of convenience.

@Cee you need to be making more of an effort this game. If you're town, inactivity just sets you up for a locked mislynch in the future.

[Suspicious]

lol 60/40** sorry can’t do math

i’d be willing to join the wagon on jamelia because i think it’ll still give us a lot of information even if he flips town. gonna hold my vote for now just cuz i’m wary of putting anyone in L-1 right now - or maybe i’m just scared of voting idk

i’m feeling slightly less sure on vork and i don’t feel like lynching him would add anything to the conversation if he flips town

i‘ve been trying to following the interactions between suspicious and zenith but trying to read it kinda hurts my head lol. probably a ridiculous idea but i’m actually considering the possibility of it being a scum-scum distancing strategy because it just seems so unnecessarily extended. very unlikely because it seems like a useless expenditure of energy but it‘s be funny if it was.

What makes a Jamelia lynch informative at this stage compared to other options?

[Suspicious]

I also am getting a sense that many of your stances come with a built-in backtrack should they not pan out; this is evident from your first accusation against Suspy in #83, where your read is given the caveat of potentially being incorrect, saying 'please' to get counter-arguments. The same thing happens in #101 where you admit you could be missing something re: Suspy's logic on a Bailey suspicion. The current read on Jamelia reads the same, incorporating a relatively high level of uncertainty. It just feels like such a middle-of-the-road stance to take here.

This is also some projecting on my end, but things like #153 aren't very substantial in any regard and serve to fill space; it's a big neon sign of town wanting to show interest and wanting the game to be active. It's not strictly AI, but it's something that has been used by scum to give the illusion of participation/willingness to solve.

[Suspicious]

Fair enough. Even though I'm not entirely convinced that it's genuine uncertainty there's no much substance to press on.

I would like more from Vork at this juncture as well.

VOTE: unvote Zen

Partly due to lost confidence, partly because it's a vote that isn't getting any attention anymore.

Changing the format of the unvote so that the automated vote counter can understand: UNVOTE: --P

[Suspicious]

In fairness to Jan, a Jamelia lynch does have connections attached to it. I agree the meta argument shouldn't be used as a push.

A Cee vote is the complete opposite. His lack of activity makes him a frustrating player, but it's not necessarily AI. What makes Cee a more valuable flip here?

[Suspicious]

ok i think i understand thanks - very messy misunderstanding there lol

i think i’m just convinced jamelia is scum and trying to justify the lynch to myself tbh. if the alternative to lynching jamelia is lynching ceejay, then my point about getting reads from the flip is even more valid because ceejay hasn’t don’t anything... but the reason i want to vote jamelia isn’t that they might flip town, it’s that i think they’re scum. BUT if they flip town i’ll be ok

anyways j think i’ve stalled this for too long just gonna put the vote up since i don’t see myself changing my mind
VOTE: Jamelia

If you're comfortable possibly flipping a town, why not flip Zenith? You shouldn't be okay with allowing a potential mislynch.

[Suspicious]

My issue with meta is that it is easily manipulated; what was once AI indicative of a player, once known in the meta mainstream, can then be used as a tactic for that player to disguise themselves. It essentially turns the meta read on its head and makes it a weapon. The same can be said for when meta is used against a player, as it is easy to make a meta argument that can fit a given narrative.

Meta is argued over so often and contradicted; it has its merits to be sure, but it should never be the entire basis for a push.

[Suspicious]

There's a difference between accepting a potential incorrect route vs. being okay with a mislynch, which #268 comes across as. You're not too confident on the read to begin with, once again adding the attached caveat of knowing you could be wrong, but killing a town would be okay anyways. The phrasing of the post makes that stand out; instead of taking a stronger stance, where the outcome is assumed scum/hoped to be scum, you add the possibility it's most likely wrong. Keeping in mind your best read is a 60/40 at best, and even that seems malleable.

My point being that if you find it likely Jam is town here to a decent degree, and you have demonstrated you're comfortable with a mislynch, why not then flip someone who has also had interactions/could have info with their flip?

I'm actually unclear on your stance on Zenith to this point; all I can see is #252 and a future scumlean in #255 in the event of a Jam lynch. I've softened on Zen recently, but I'm surprised nothing they've done has been a scumping to you or even worth discussing to a noticeable extent.

[Suspicious]

#284 reads to me as frustration with being meta tunneled by tictac - and honestly i agree it’s a very bad reasoning to fully base a lynch on. at best it’s NAI (just frustration) but it kinda leans to me as mafia frustrated at being scumread for some dumb reason

might be my confirmation bias or something, don’t feel like it was at all towny though

I feel the exact opposite; I don't have any meta on Jam, but I don't think scum crumbles this easily. No defense, straight to a half-hearted AtE; it's lackluster play and feels more like a townie feeling they've been dealt an injustice.

[Suspicious]

You either misunderstood me or picked out what suited you best. My point was never that a mislynch wasn't a possibility, but rather the aim of a lynch should be for reasonable certainty as opposed to a highly-possible mislynch.

Mafia is as numbers game to me; a mislynch is always possible, especially D1, but a mislynch should not be accepted outright
It's a poor game outlook and allows scum to skirt by easily while holding the numerical advantage.

[Suspicious]

Well, Cee didn't do particularly anything period. There shouldn't be any passes given to slots; let them speak for themselves.

And @Bailey, I would certainly like to see more of a catch-up from you. #301 seems devoid of any kind of content that can be useful, and is essentially a series of a few middling observations.

[Suspicious]

i'd like someone's thoughts on this ^^ if anyone's online

kinda scared i'm just confirmation-biasing reads now... but it feels right...

Jamelia never presented reads outside of being uneasy regarding your slot being new yet speaking as a veteran--which was cleared up when you clarified your prior experience--and scum-leaning Zen. Per their own admission, they didn't have many reads to give on any situations and the tunnel by tictac dissuaded them from pursuing anything; they became locked in on trying to defend themselves.

It looks more like, in #338, you're digging to make things crop up so Jamelia is locked as the lynch today. They haven't implied tic as scum or town previously, and if anything the implication here is that Jamelia is giving them a town pass; they claim tic's arguments are off-base, even though they could be coming from a town POV, and they'll look poor in hindsight for following through. Town/mafia alike can get bad looks for lynches that go poorly, so I don't know why you seem to imply it's a scum-exclusive remark to make.

w/r/t #284, the ending bit there probably refers to tic's login time argument, which Jamelia has been vocally against. It's shaky ground to stand on and I agree it's poor basis for an argument, and it noticeably brings a lot of frustration out of Jam. I don't think scum collapses this easily, basically taunts town by saying they'll look stupid, then exits the site.

And I understand that this is still nitpicky, but every time you make these disclaimers it pings me the wrong way. I don't think you can call out anyone for not confidently stating a read when all of yours come with safeguards attached.

[Suspicious]

George is on the scummy side of null, their posts feel affected. Is English your first language

Been putting that down to "Roleplay account"
I'm finnish fyi.

Roleplay accounts are terrible for this exact reason; their behavior can be excused because it stays in line with their 'character,' and if the account happens to be a town slot, that same behavior is weaponized to craft a mislynch. It's never pleasant to play with, and even with mislynch potential, I'd favor pushing them out of character rather than giving them passes.

[Suspicious]

@zen effort is very AI imo.

In an ideal world, true, but there are a horde of games that act as counter-arguments, where lurking/under-achieving town were used as easy mislynches. Inactive slots are always a risk and not enjoyable to play with.

[Suspicious]

Sure
Click on the activity overview button

yeah vork is town

Or they recognized an obvious trap and sidestepped it. Not AI here.

[Suspicious]

Not a fan of Zen, but I agree with the sentiment that our back-and-forth going without any commentary/interruption is pretty telling. Unless the strategy was to wait/hope for things to simmer down, Zen got left out to dry. I don't think a partner allows their other half to do that, and Zen's looking like a bail-out vote.

Suspicious did you say how much mafia experience you have?

~5 years or so I guess, in-person and forum. I've only now started getting back into it, so I am new to the site.

[Suspicious]

~5 years or so I guess, in-person and forum. I've only now started getting back into it, so I am new to the site.

how good would you rank your scumgame?

I have no clue. You tell me.

Jamelia never presented reads outside of being uneasy regarding your slot being new yet speaking as a veteran--which was cleared up when you clarified your prior experience--and scum-leaning Zen. Per their own admission, they didn't have many reads to give on any situations and the tunnel by tictac dissuaded them from pursuing anything; they became locked in on trying to defend themselves.

It looks more like, in #338, you're digging to make things crop up so Jamelia is locked as the lynch today. They haven't implied tic as scum or town previously, and if anything the implication here is that Jamelia is giving them a town pass; they claim tic's arguments are off-base, even though they could be coming from a town POV, and they'll look poor in hindsight for following through. Town/mafia alike can get bad looks for lynches that go poorly, so I don't know why you seem to imply it's a scum-exclusive remark to make.

i felt like it was strange for jamelia to be giving tictac a townpass there without even explaining it - like i would have expected it accompanied with an "i hate you tunneling me but i think you're town" type of message. i would think normally if i got tunneled really hard by someone i wouldn't just assume they were town. i'm aware that "bad look" can also apply to mafia but the way Jamelia was saying it didn't sound like they were calling tictac mafia ever.

i said this already -

if jamelia thought tictac was mafia they would have said that explicitly

^that's why i'm pretty sure jamelia thinks tictac is town from that post^

and yeah i kind of am trying to dig for things to get Jamelia lynched - because i scumread them? i genuinely think jamelia is the best lynch here right now and i'm trying to convince everyone else (which i guess isn't working lol)

Not sure I understand what you're getting at here; I understand Jam is giving tic a town pass. Town can get tunneled just like mafia, so it's reasonable to believe another town would recognize they were being tunneled by a fellow town.

And you asked for opinions, stating you were worried about confirmation bias. That was my response saying that you are, in fact, digging into things that suit your narrative. Was that not what you wanted?

w/r/t #284, the ending bit there probably refers to tic's login time argument, which Jamelia has been vocally against. It's shaky ground to stand on and I agree it's poor basis for an argument, and it noticeably brings a lot of frustration out of Jam. I don't think scum collapses this easily, basically taunts town by saying they'll look stupid, then exits the site.

-"exits the site" part is NAI
-don't think this is as much of scum collapsing as it is trying to sound like frustrated town and overcompensating and now sounding like they're mad at tictac for having that reasoning instead of being mad at tictac for scumreading them
i've seen this before, where scum gets mad at being caught/fossed/lynched for a stupid reason when they think they've been towny. (usually with more experienced players, sure but i think its possible with a tiny bit of coaching from scumpartner)

And I understand that this is still nitpicky, but every time you make these disclaimers it pings me the wrong way. I don't think you can call out anyone for not confidently stating a read when all of yours come with safeguards attached.

um did i call out someone for not having confident reads and forgot about doing it or something

Part of your push on Jam is that they haven't passed any reads/did not confidently read tic as either scum or town. You also did much the same at the start of the game in #83 when you questioned Suspy's vote on Bailey, stating it was a weak/baseless read, which ignored the actual reasoning provided. And, for what it's worth, all I can gather from your own reads are a scumlean on Suspy, townlean on Zenith, and scumread on Jam, with a potential side of Vork.

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@susp I dunno what ya think ya doing w the jan push.
Near-zero chance she's gonna get lynched today so seems kinda pointless atm.
Unless chainsawing for Jam, in which case carry on.

Near-zero chance, yet voting is tied across the board at 2 apiece for 4 different options.

If I sense something worth investigating/pushing, that's what I'll do until I'm satisfied. I don't like leaving things as they are until the next day; I want to get to them when I see them, especially considering survival into the next day is never guaranteed.

Once the day ticks down, I'd prefer to consolidate onto Bailey, who is my frontrunner scumread at the moment; it's the general info-but-no-analysis posting. Despite being questioned, there's never a sense of actual investigation going on, and the stances taken are very observational in nature/the pushes constructed are weak in terms of pressure.

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I hope it's for a better reason outside of me not wanting to answer a typical trap question.

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In my experience, that kind of question is used to force a player to explain how they approach the game from a town/maf/etc. perspective, and it's used to have the player make a perceived slip that can translate into a lynch. It's been used against me as mafia and it's been used against me as town; it could be different here, but I'm used to it being a tactic.

My scum game is inconsistent because I like to toy with meta, since everyone loves to put so much stake into it. If anything, I'm more blunt as town when I get down to making accusations and I don't care as much about upsetting people if I push them/I don't go for the easy mislynch.

You can see my previous game if you need a comparison.

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Lol between you and Zenith both, can we cut the petty insults? I almost want to lynch out of spite.

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There's a marked difference in Jam behavior that coincides w the replacements arriving.
My thinking on that: Skitt is a much better coach than CJ was.

@susp ya don't want a bunny? I'm sad.
I only dole them out for Jam-votes tho, not for guessing reads.

VOTE: january

How am I doing, chief?

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I refused to answer a trap, and that gets a vote. Interesting.

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Well explanations would be helpful. And I find it hard to believe someone of experience like yourself wouldn't realize that was a set-up.

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Out of curiosity, why did you give #365 a pass then? Similar response to a similar question, but Vork walks away town.

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- you're being kinda lamist and you have enough experience that i'm dubious you're just saying the things people expect you to say. Again if you're new this is more of a towntell, but you're not
- i dont like that i've had to drag an answer out of you regarding experience
- i dont like your january vote/spat
- i dont particularly like your defense of zen

- Lamist how? Interesting how you reach this conclusion about me but not Vork or Bailey.
- Agree to disagree.
- So is it lamist or just bad? I'm tired of being insulted, and their defense reeked of having nothing left outside of just being an ass.
- I don't like Zen at all, as I have said repeatedly. But that vote/argument went without any interruption whatsoever; that is unusual to me.

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Also why on earth is january the leading wagon rn ?

Why not?

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Yikes

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Boy oh boy, I can't wait for someone else to misrepresent my posting!

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I'll count down until the next round of insults start pouring in.

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It's kind of hilarious how wrongly this game is being solved but I'm so fucking done with this game if I'm being honest.

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Thank you, it's high-effort.

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You've caught me, this is my blazing scumtell. Gosh darn, I though I had ya.

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I play these games specifically to be ignored and insulted, makes the experience very entertaining.

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I made my case against jan, so this is not entirely baseless. The insulting tired me and it's the exact same tactic Zenith used. And it's pinging me here for the same reason. Deny argument into insult is an easy scum strat.

If consolidating on jan isn't agreed on, consolidation should be on Bailey.

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They hated Jesus because he told the truth

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If I have to die so this game gets solved correctly then fine I guess.

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I'll consolidate on Bailey, that is the more sure route.

VOTE: Bailey

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Vork looking like the partner here.

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I wouldn't have minded dying to prove you wrong. You're just an ass.

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Yeah, not a fun game. But I am slightly validated knowing I was 100% on Zen.