Newbie 1961 | Trees II | Over

[GeorgeBailey]

Bonjour my brethren,

First order of business, this guy seems kinda

suspicious

....

VOTE: Suspicious

[GeorgeBailey]

woah woah woah, I believe that takes him to

L-1.

Scary place to be.

I'm gonna unvote to prevent a hammer.

UNVOTE: Suspicious

I believe he's at

L-2

now

[GeorgeBailey]

I take serious offense

[GeorgeBailey]

I'm but a simple banker, please spare me!

[GeorgeBailey]

Beautiful start.

Anyways, the reason I didn't do an immediate unvote, is because I don't think the others realized we were putting

Suspicious

at L-1/L-2.
Also,

Fancy's

post and mine are 1 minute apart. Gimme slack here.

Zenith's

naked vote against

Suspicious

seemed strange, and I wanna chalk it up to RVS, but the post was barren of any flavour/reasoning/anything.

VOTE: Zenith

I wanna hear from you bud.

[GeorgeBailey]

Aight, fast moving thread imo. I really like this.

@Balley I'd like yer answer to this as well.

Minimal experience, I have a lot of experience with ToS/ToL though. Completely different from this forum format. My first game was interesting, and it seems like every game plays out a new story. I love this lmao.

What's wrong with an early L-1?
If scum were on the wagon, would they be more likely to stay there? Or would they be more likely to unvote for potential town points?

FOS

@ Fancy and GeorgeBailey.

I feel like in a format like this, it would be super easy for someone to accidentally hammer. I believe keeping someone at L-2 would have been sufficient pressure, L-1 can cause people to

really

panic

The reasoning behind not immediately unvoting was based on gauging the reactions of others I suppose? And then making the judgement call to back off when they did not. If I'm misinterpreting then let me know.

Er kinda. It was more to say "woah wtf,

who let this get to L-1

". I still think Zenith is a bit suspicious for letting it get to that. But reading his other posts, I think it was still more of a mistake.

UNVOTE: Zenith

@Suspicious, reading between the lines Bailey seems like a suspect of yours, why don't you join me on the wagon?

Err.. what? I would love a more concrete answer on why voted me.


All in all, I do agree with

Jamelia

. Don't get me wrong, I love how active you are @

FancyPants

(I really gotta step it up) but you're being super aggressive. (95) And I dont think a lot of good is coming from it. (Except the pressure on

January

. I liked that)

Vork

seems townlean, Suspicious is townlean from 78. Overall engagement is nice.

Jam

is neutral though. Not enough from

CJ

and

Zenith

to make a read tbh,

January

sounds townlean atm because of 101.

Tictac

is the only one who seems scumlean to me. Because of 45, which is a bit of a stretch. But your vote is still on

Zenith

, and I wanna know why.

Is it still because he didn't answer your question?

[GeorgeBailey]

Damn, just realized Zenith never actually followed up on his reason for a naked vote.

@Zenith

could you at least clarify please?

Putting someone at L-1 so early is pretty damn scary.

[GeorgeBailey]

Scum are in: [Jammy/Vork/Ceejay] - > take note for end game.

Out of curiosity, why Vork/CJ? I can

kinda

see the case for Jammy, but it feels like the other two don't have a lot of defining posts.

[GeorgeBailey]

126 is finally what I wanted to hear.

@Suspicious Looking at how post 9 and 10 are literally a minute apart, it seemed like it was pretty much the same move I made. Still weary of " I'm fine with putting someone at L1" though.

Although I do agree with Suspicious on the question, I would like to hear your reads on the current game. (I'm guessing Suspicious is scumlean for you?)

Also, that earlier FOS seems a little unfair.

[GeorgeBailey]

Nothing in Zeniths posts even hinted at L-1 possibly being a mistake.

It was pretty much this part

What's wrong with an early L-1?

Sounded more like an actual question than a defense.

Why the townlean on Vork?

Votes likes 46. There's obviously no intent to lynch, and it's purely to wake up stagnant players. I feel like scum would want the opposite.

Zen did answer the question about the lynch vote beforehand in #34. Was this insubstantial to you?

Absolutely. Just asking "What's wrong?" Isn't really an answer. He clarified later he intended to vote to L-2, but got beat to it.
Which is what I wanted, clarity. But not backing down from the L-1 stance is a little scummy.
It can take anyone to hammer someone at L-1 in RVS, maybe it's scum intent, maybe it's newb mistake.

@GeorgeBailey I was pretty sure from everything else you said that you had unvoted because it was too close to lynch. I’m curious what you expected from leaving it at L-1 if you believed nobody noticed

A mislynch simply. Could have been the guy you replaced, could have been another newbie (would most likely be another newbie).

@Georgebailey if you absolutely had to lynch someone now, who would it be and why?

...Probably Zenith. I mean nobody else has done really anything scummy or stuff that really stood out to me.
This stands out to me

I'm not afraid to put an RVS at L-1 if done properly.

Could you clarify "done properly"? I feel like L-1 RVS is incredibly risky at the cost of getting a rando lynched (which is more than likely going to be a town).

[GeorgeBailey]

why would you want to leave it at L-1 if people didn’t notice? if that is the question that you’re answering... why would you want an early mislynch on someone who hasn’t even spoken yet... what if they were a power role

I'm sorry, I don't really understand the question. I don't want people being held at L-1 without people noticing. I don't want an early mislynch, and I don't want people to be voted out early even if they're a power role. Did I insinuate that in some of my earlier posts?

Also, you must have seen Fancy’s post before yours since it seems like you get notified before submitting if there’s any new messages. Why not change your message or your approach after Fancy had unvoted?
-Knowing that Fancy unvoted, why not at least edit the explanation a little bit, because it’s not like we were at L-1 anymore when you posted

I was rushing to get the post out and I didn't really read it. I didn't think a follow up was required either. It was a simple move to prevent something that I don't think anyone wanted. Again lmao, 1 minute apart.

[GeorgeBailey]

another ping on informed POW. (assuming benign intent without reason)
What Vork actually said was basically: "go back to sleep ya lurker. ya posting too much."

I read this

The more pages that pass without him making a first post, the townie he is.

More as "The more pages that pass by, the

less

townie he is". Which might be a misread, but I assume that's what he meant.

As for this

@Others: I think this is the first time Jam randed scum. I'd like to lynch him gently if we can. I recognize that this is a meta-read and as such might not be convincing for all. I encourage everyone to take a peek at Jam-iso in that game, and then tell me if ya think that this is the same person at all.

I'm reading this more as newbie enthusiasm. That was Jam's first game on the board

ever

. Idk how much I can talk about the other games he's in (I think all of them are still ongoing) but I don't think this is indicative of his role.

Still Eyeing

Zenith

, I'll vote based off the answer of Suspicious's recent post. I think L-2 is a good position for him now.

[GeorgeBailey]

I don't think lynching Jamelia will get anywhere, since it's based A LOT on Meta.

I'm fine with putting a wagon on CJ, mostly because of

I have fancypants as town for the way they are playing earlier, maybe January too.

Zenith's points are little odd. (He DID say that he voted you because he didn't like the way you were answering sus's questions.)

VOTE: CJ

(Also sorry for prod, was literally just writing something.)

[GeorgeBailey]

While voting someone who isn't active is a pretty shitty way to get an alignment, I just hope it'll get something out of him. Same with Vork. But at least Vork had reads, CJ hasn't really done anything. I really hope this changes if a wagon is started on CJ. As for Jan's points against Jam, lynching someone to read reactions between posts seems odd, and she even said

almost all of these rely on jamelia being scum but uhhh...

I don't see any real reason to vote Jam, I was going to vote Zenith because of CJ's reasons, but I think my vote is better placed here.

Plus, Zenith finally answered your questions, and I think the whole L-1 debacle isn't too relevant now. But I can really go either way.

[GeorgeBailey]

still confused - i'm guessing there's some misunderstanding here - can you please clarify?

err, ok. Last time at trying to clarify this wording. By "immediate unvote" I mean naked vote. I wanted to communicate that this was L-1,

and

to unvote. I don't think people realized it got to that. It was dumb to assume people didn't notice, especially since this games has 3 SE's, but I thought I should atleast say a "wtf" along with my vote.

[GeorgeBailey]

hate very strongly dislike how much meta tictac used in the read on jamelia, but i do think it came from a town perspective. basically, i don’t think mafia would be putting this much effort into digging for meta to build reads because their reads are fake anyways. i highly doubt a scum tictac would be putting this much effort into lynching a town unless his partner was in danger of getting lynched

I do agree with this though, although a bit aggressive with the meta and online time analysis, it seems like a townie trying really hard to get reads from people. So I guess my earlier read was pretty wrong.

i’d be willing to join the wagon on jamelia because i think it’ll still give us a lot of information even if he flips town

But I hate this. We shouldn't be voting someone who

might

flip town. Rather, someone who's scummy and

might

flip scum. I don't think much info will come from this.

January is odd because they’re knew, but responding like a vet. So that’s just something to watch out for.

Jan responded earlier she has experience with Mafia chat, so that's not really something to watch out for.

[GeorgeBailey]

ayyy welcome to the party folks. Since my last vote was pretty much pressure I'll unvote.
And there's no real point in pressure when replacements are pretty much pressured to post from the get-go.

don’t really think anything ceejay has done is particularly scummy

agreed.

UNVOTE: skitter30

excited for the new (and familiar) faces.

As for current standings, I want to hear a bit from the new guys. And my opinion on Jamelia still stands, I don't think he's scummy. The "egg on your face" quote makes it seems like he gave up from being bombarded with meta questions. Although TicTac does make an interesting point on how he didn't reply to any of January's questions, so I'll give him that. And I hope the new content can give insight on the game state.

If nothing else comes up, i'll vote Jamelia. Because I do think TicTac is town, although a bit aggressive.
Sorry for the useless analysis, but nothing in the past few posts have caught my eye yet.

[GeorgeBailey]

George is on the scummy side of null, their posts feel affected. Is English your first language

Been putting that down to "Roleplay account"
I'm finnish fyi.

Roleplay accounts are terrible for this exact reason; their behavior can be excused because it stays in line with their 'character,' and if the account happens to be a town slot, that same behavior is weaponized to craft a mislynch. It's never pleasant to play with, and even with mislynch potential, I'd favor pushing them out of character rather than giving them passes.

Lmao i'm not a role play account. My writing skills just aren't the greatest

Spoiler:

( it's why i'm taking computer science, and that's why he have to take a mandatory writing course

GeorgeBailey is just the usual name I use for Mafia/Werewolf Game variants.

But that aside

,

isn't what Bailey literally claimed to be doing?

I'm guessing you mean

While voting someone who isn't active is a pretty shitty way to get an alignment, I just hope it'll get something out of him. Same with Vork. But at least Vork had reads, CJ hasn't really done anything. I really hope this changes if a wagon is started on CJ. As for Jan's points against Jam, lynching someone to read reactions between posts seems odd, and she even said

But that vote was more to apply pressure. And I unvoted since the point of it was nullified.
I'm pretty much with Suspicious on Jamelia's case. Scum wouldn't just give up, and he sounds frustrated from tictac's meta arguments.
January's point about "voting doesn't give newb a chance to talk" makes no sense. Pressure gives newbs more incentive to talk. Voting is one of the best ways to apply pressure.

I agree on these points by Skitter's on why Zenith is scum:

- no indication of townreading tictac
- no indication of scumreading whoever the vote was on

I'm standing by #181

...Probably Zenith.

VOTE: Zenith

Putting him at

L-1

.

[GeorgeBailey]

VOTE: january
Trial by fire works best IMHO

I don't really trust the wagon on January right now. Vork's reason is how badly Jan reacted to her own wagon. Shouldn't town be scared of being voted off D1? Shitty way to end a game so fast. Maf and Town should both be scared of being lynched, and Zenith's reason...

Ok..
VOTE: january

Is because Jan didn't want people voting CJ because he didn't do anything particularly scummy?
Suspicious's reason is...

VOTE: january

How am I doing, chief?

Sounds like a frustration/reaction post. Reaction from Jan tunneling Jamelia, and frusteration after Jan called him dense. The only valid reason I see is from the constant tunneling.
and from:

good for you! you guessed my reads congrats!

Like, come on. Your reads aren't super obvious.

As for Jam...

this is the biggest point for me.

What if he stayed on Zenith? Would that earn him any town points? Why are you only holding Jam accountable for this? Seemed like a "Woah wait, I want a little more information first" unvote.

if jamelia thought tictac was mafia they would have said that explicitly

i’m saying jamelia is scum because they townread tictac for no reason.

But people can have null reads. Especially since the conversation has been mostly revolved around two wagons.

Because they're the towniest person in this game rn ...

Why is Jan the towniest?

I'm thinking Skitter right now.

Mostly from 480

1. Sus definitely wasn't defending him. and he's right, Zenith would have a scum buddy to defend him, and be vocal about it. The fact that no one really cared was discerning.
2. Town reading Jan for no reason I can find.

Voting him back seems a bit ridiculous.

The reasons you mention are: 315, 326,469 which are mostly "I think Jan is town.".

VOTE: skitter30

[GeorgeBailey]

my #1 scum read at this point is suspicious.

Aight, but why? The constant Q/A that was going on?

If so, what about it makes him scum?

[GeorgeBailey]

Er, Why exactly? I knew the two biggest wagons were town getting lynched on shaky ground. And it still is. I have no problem voting Zenith or Suspicious. How am I more suspicious than Zenith exactly?

[GeorgeBailey]

Or Skitter for that matter... But I know that's not going to happen anytime soon.

[GeorgeBailey]

You still want to vote for Suspicious?

Well yeah, his constant berating. His ego vote. But It doesn't matter much. seems like people have their mind set on me right now. Especially Vork, who.... Town read me, then voted for me?? Where's the defense buddy?

I guess I should have just voted on one of the wagons instead of defending them lmao. They were both just kinda shitty though. Would rather vote someone I think is scum than vote a town out for the sake of lynching.

VOTE: Suspicious

[GeorgeBailey]

I'm surprised you're the one asking the questions before my lynch, since I was trying to vote you out the entire time Zenith. So you at least deserve credit for that.

[GeorgeBailey]

The partner who's starting the wagon?

[GeorgeBailey]

confirmed town

Confirmed town? What makes him confirmed town?

[GeorgeBailey]

I know, but that doesn't confirm them.

UNVOTE: .

I guess we gotta wait for DDL and Skitter to swoop in for the final vote.

[GeorgeBailey]

If someone was tracker, or another powerful role, why would they counterclaim? Scum would know who to target for N1 NK.

[GeorgeBailey]

DDL and skitter are going to cc PR

No, but they've been on my case since they joined. So it's likely one of them will be the hammer. DDL is town for me, but skitter seems like scum.

[GeorgeBailey]

Welp, I guess so. I'm only ever use to PR claiming like D3, from my first game. D1 PR claim is strange to me. But since it's masons I guess it's not a huge target painted on their back. That gives some insight on what kind of maf we're dealing with.

[GeorgeBailey]

Lmao, I said I understand. I'm not used to PR claiming so damn early. It's strange.

[GeorgeBailey]

Ay, oh well. I need to knock off the mafia variants strategy. Baiting certain roles into cc'ing is a common strategy in them.

I guess there's not much I can say in defense other than that i'm VT. And that Vorks sudden shift from "Townread" to voting me is interesting.

Jan what are you waiting for exactly?

[GeorgeBailey]

Oh well, I mean, at least that wagon on Jamelia didn't go through.

[GeorgeBailey]

why'd you vote them? i thought you were trying to get skitter lynched earlier

Because as Vork mentioned, I should have brought that up tomorrow, and he was right, it bit me in the ass later. It was either him/Zenith.

UNVOTE: Suspicious

Zenith is out for me now, because I'm still surprised he's not holding a grudge from my constant push earlier.

[GeorgeBailey]

As for why I voted Suspicious, because it's one of the wagons I should have joined, Out of jam/jan/Sus I would choose sus to lynch.

[GeorgeBailey]

But from all of your thoughts, he's apparently pretty much confirmed. So there's no point.

[GeorgeBailey]

@Jan Hold on one moment, i'm writing a little bit up. We also have 7 hours left, which is a good chunk of time for DDL,Skitter and Jam to chime in.

Also @Vork, I meant thoughts as the general consensus. But yeah you're right, I overlooked how easily they're confirmed. Because of the mechanics.

[GeorgeBailey]

Alright, well, my next choice after everyone would probably be Vork.

Vork held on and voted Jan 61
When asked why

-I can't be bothered to comb through your ISO, find a quote which pings you as vulnerable for me, and proceed to have a back-and-forth. Suffice to say your opening (hi, I'm new, please be nice) and the next few afterwards left that impression on me and that's it.

And held on for the sake of pressure until 573.

Then, to go from:

gut/tone- his walls feel the most genuine in terms of "getting to the bottom of things" while others have more of a "defensive/agenda-driven" approach
also he ticked off things in my "things to look for in town" checklists

To

*sighs*
I can buy it knowing the mason pair
VOTE: bailey

Is a pretty sharp contrast. It sounds like Vork wants to lynch for the sake of lynching, instead of lynching for scum. This was before I made the vote on Suspicious.

Again:

I'd rather bite my tongue today and cooperate with a lynch than keep stonewalling and insisting that it's someone that doesn't have a chance of being run up in a day.

Welp, that's my only defense. Plus I was trying to NOT get the PRs from voted out, but that was before they claimed so idk how much merit that holds. I'd rather have Skitter voted out, but that ain't happening. I'll be off for the next few hours so whatever happens, will happen. I'll try to reply mobile if this sparks anything.

VOTE: Vork

[GeorgeBailey]

np bae, I get flustered easily so I've been making terrible choices. Anyways, time for a break.

[GeorgeBailey]

Surprising to hear despite my recent posts, but thanks.

[GeorgeBailey]

I meant your second sentence @Skitter.

But anyways, I do feel like maf found a nice opportunity in this. I'm guessing it's Vork, because I don't know if Town would really let it prolong this long.

Adios Amigos~

[GeorgeBailey]

Town

would really let it prolong this long.

EBWOP Maf*