Newbie 1961 | Trees II | Over

[january]

good mornin everyone

first time on mafiascum, not really familiar with this format so please bear with me

[january]

Please answer my question.

chill out i’m just figured out that there was more than one page in this thread
I’ll answer it in less than 30 min i promise

@january any exp in other formats then?

Yeah played a lot of live chat mafia so i’m familiar with the game but just not what to do here on d1

also i just found out that trying to read on mobile is near impossible but i will attempt this as best I can

[january]

Hey hey you're too fast
to answer your question: i fos suspicious at the moment will explain in a sec

[january]

I was a bit uncomfy with how fast the votes went onto Suspicious, but I feel like his response to the votes seemed very kneejerk-y with the thing about there being a mafia who voted him. It doesn't seem like a real "read" that comes from actually looking for mafia.

[god i'm so incoherent right now sorry]

Basically to me there's nothing really that makes Bailey's first vote scummy, so this part:

Bailey basing the RVS off of my name is also an easy route to go for maf to cloak themselves

seems like he's just trying to justify something. Basically: Bailey voted that way as a random vote, so saying that Bailey is somehow responsible for the wagon doesn't seem like it's a genuine attempt to find maf. seems like he's just trying to fos everyone who voted

i think this makes sense please tell me if it doesn't

[january]

guess i'm a coward
what exactly don't you want me to do?

@Suspicious, went back and saw that but my reasoning still stands. Might just be you using a different approach than me but I don't see how anything Bailey has done seems particularly scummy - the unvote seemed like a very natural time and what I would expect them to do as town, so I'd like to see how that seems scummy to you. What would you have expected them to do as town?

[january]

@Fancy it’s just how I play, will get more confident later but i don’t see a point of having hard reads at this point of the game already (maybe it’s different for forum mafia games, i’m used to live games)

[january]

@Jan I would have expected what Fancy did: unvoted, said why, and moved on with further questioning to examine players/the wagon. Bailey's post in comparison comes across as much more of a grandstanding moment to grab town credibility. Their reasoning for the unvote in the first place after being pressured was odd and I'm still waiting on clarification there.

understood, but I still FoS you mostly for calling Bailey out in #23 for an obviously random vote.

also, what exactly is wrong about trying to grab credibility? couldn't town try to be credible too?
-still seems like a perfectly normal action from Bailey, but maybe i'm missing something?

anyways, I have a habit of tunneling onto one person so i'll step back and read the other peeps

[january]

weird take maybe but I feel like Zenith's silent vote on Suspicious at the beginning of the game is a town move because mafia would be more worried about justifying their vote somehow

but also I can't really see them silent voting as town either so I guess it's just something that doesn't make sense in general

[january]

@Vorkuta what makes you think I'm nervous?

nice bait now you're making me sound nervous by asking >:-(

[january]

@Jamelia i find it hard to believe that’s the only thing you noticed if you read everything i’ve said

but no, i’m not new to mafia just to forum mafia

feels like a big deflect of tictacs question but u might want to read again

[january]

@tictac thanks for pointing out the thing in #30 from Bailey, I must have missed it

@GeorgeBailey I was pretty sure from everything else you said that you had unvoted because it was too close to lynch. I’m curious what you expected from leaving it at L-1 if you believed nobody noticed

Also, you must have seen Fancy’s post before yours since it seems like you get notified before submitting if there’s any new messages. Why not change your message or your approach after Fancy had unvoted?
-Knowing that Fancy unvoted, why not at least edit the explanation a little bit, because it’s not like we were at L-1 anymore when you posted

[january]

I just realized that I was combining Zenith and Vorkuta into one spot in my brain and I thought they were the same person (same number of letters and starts with letter near the end of the alphabet lol)

Vorkuta, what’s the point of putting a vote on me and telling me you’re looking for a reaction? Wouldn’t that just ruin the reaction test? And I asked this before but it’s probably buried: which of my lines made you mark me as nervous?

Vorkuta’s lines feel really jumpy, like he’s just reacting to random posts but not really contributing anything. Not sure if that’s just a normal playstyle for them or a sign of nervous mafia. Is there a way to review previous games that someone has played to compare and is that allowed?

[january]

asking other people for reads is how you get game content, so how exactly is the question bizarre?

is there something that I've done that you like or dislike?

[january]

fair enough, just seemed to me like you avoided answering at all. not gonna keep pushing u on that, just felt a bit noncommital with the answer

thoughts on anyone else? who's your scumread right now?

[january]

is it normally this dead

[january]

anyways... haven't voted yet but right now i'd be comfortable voting either Vorkuta or Suspicious and pray that i'm at least half right

still waiting on:
-Vorkuta's answer to #116
-GeorgeBailey's answer to #142
-general reads from Jamelia

(also just figured out how to link posts so yay : )

[january]

-your point being?
A vote on you is still pressure, regardless of the pretext under which I justify it
if others join then others join. If not then....
-I can't be bothered to comb through your ISO, find a quote which pings you as vulnerable for me, and proceed to have a back-and-forth. Suffice to say your opening (hi, I'm new, please be nice) and the next few afterwards left that impression on me and that's it.

well it just seemed to me like it was a vote with no real purpose to me

sad you don’t want to have a back and forth, that’s usually the easiest way for me to develop reads on other people by forcing them to interact with me until i townread them or decide i can’t townread them

[january]

@GeorgeBailey i think my wording was a little unclear but I meant to ask why would you want to leave it at L-1 if people didn’t notice? if that is the question that you’re answering... why would you want an early mislynch on someone who hasn’t even spoken yet... what if they were a power role

also can u answer this part too

Also, you must have seen Fancy’s post before yours since it seems like you get notified before submitting if there’s any new messages. Why not change your message or your approach after Fancy had unvoted?
-Knowing that Fancy unvoted, why not at least edit the explanation a little bit, because it’s not like we were at L-1 anymore when you posted

[january]

out of curiosity, how much “coaching” between mafia members usually occurs in the mafia chat?

when I played live chat mafia, mafia couldn’t speak to each other during the day so there wasn’t really any way for partners to coach each other.

-don’t think this is that relevant right now, but if coaching is common or likely then it might be easier to figure out partner/team reads later on. (for example a newbie with really bad plays that flips maf probably has a newbie partner)
-i know this has way too much meta to ever back up a full read, but it might help with pointing us in the right direction later on, just felt like asking now because it came to mind and i didn’t want to forget

[january]

was really busy this weekend so i’ve been following along but didn’t really have time to post much sorry

also meant to post this comment about tictac’s scumread on Jamelia last night but fell asleep at my computer instead oops

i

hate

very strongly dislike how much meta tictac used in the read on jamelia, but i do think it came from a town perspective. basically, i don’t think mafia would be putting this much effort into digging for meta to build reads because their reads are fake anyways. i highly doubt a scum tictac would be putting this much effort into lynching a town unless his partner was in danger of getting lynched

i think i’m about 60/30 for Jamelia being scum. his response to tictac feels to me to be really reactive. it felt like he just attacked tictac’s use of meta just because it was meta, rather than attempting to disprove it. meta is a part of the game, so I don’t really see a problem with including it in a read. you are playing a lot differently than it seems from that quote. however, i think there is a somewhat reasonable meta-based defense of jamelia since newer players tend to respond more reactively from my experience

[january]

lol 60/40** sorry can’t do math

i’d be willing to join the wagon on jamelia because i think it’ll still give us a lot of information even if he flips town. gonna hold my vote for now just cuz i’m wary of putting anyone in L-1 right now - or maybe i’m just scared of voting idk

i’m feeling slightly less sure on vork and i don’t feel like lynching him would add anything to the conversation if he flips town

i‘ve been trying to following the interactions between suspicious and zenith but trying to read it kinda hurts my head lol. probably a ridiculous idea but i’m actually considering the possibility of it being a scum-scum distancing strategy because it just seems so unnecessarily extended. very unlikely because it seems like a useless expenditure of energy but it‘s be funny if it was.

[january]

kinda explained it compared to vorkuta - vorkuta has barely been involved in any interactions with people besides me, so i don’t think him dying would help anything with my reads

Jamelia has been interacting a lot with a lot of players
-fancy and jamelia (interaction quoted in #105 and #120: almost 100% sure they’re not scum partners
-jamelia and tictac (basically everything recently): if jamelia flips maf then tictac alamo’s confirmed town imo
-jamelia and zenith: if jam flips town, gonna fos zenith for how quickly they joined tictac’s vote

just realized almost all of these rely on jamelia being scum but uhhh...

there’ll probably be more based on whoever else casts the vote and reactions tomorrow which i can’t really predict

[january]

i’m assuming suspy is talking about you (talking about yourself in 3rd person?)

i think it’s normal to believe that leave room for the fact that my read could be incorrect that early... but yeah in general i do have weaker reads until much later in the game (a lot of my reads usually come from interactions and previous flips

in early reads i’d rather have people give me feedback based on my reads to generate discussion and forcing people to interact. people just sending their reads and not interacting makes it harder to read

also, i feel like my read on jamelia has been the most confident so far (i know.. 60/40 isn’t confident by any standard) but it’s accompanied with an almost-intention to vote so it’s at more confident than before

re: #153, yeah it was filler but nobody was there and i was constantly checking back for the whole 4+ hours. guess i’m just not used to waiting that long and i’m impatient

[january]

Anyways, the reason I didn't do an immediate unvote, is

because I don't think the others realized we were putting Suspicious at L-1/L-2.

I don't want people being held at L-1 without people noticing. I don't want an early mislynch, and I don't want people to be voted out early even if they're a power role. Did I insinuate that in some of my earlier posts?

still confused - i'm guessing there's some misunderstanding here - can you please clarify?

[january]

btw my computer's ip address has been blacklisted from posting for some reason - going to be doing all my posts from my phone until i can figure out a vpn or how to get un-blacklisted

please excuse all weird typos and formatting and i will probably be less active until i figure this out, it's really hard to post from mobile

[january]

can ceejay be prodded it's been almost 48 hours

[january]

ok i think i understand thanks - very messy misunderstanding there lol

i think i’m just convinced jamelia is scum and trying to justify the lynch to myself tbh. if the alternative to lynching jamelia is lynching ceejay, then my point about getting reads from the flip is even more valid because ceejay hasn’t don’t anything... but the reason i want to vote jamelia isn’t that they might flip town, it’s that i think they’re scum. BUT if they flip town i’ll be ok

anyways j think i’ve stalled this for too long just gonna put the vote up since i don’t see myself changing my mind
VOTE: Jamelia

[january]

i don’t want to lynch zenith because i don’t scum read them? it’s not like i’m going out of my way to lynch town lol... jamelia is my strongest scumread i thought i made that clear

what’s wrong with accepting that i might be wrong? everyone is a potential mislynch it’s not like anyone is confirmed maf. i’m voting the person who i think is least likely to be a mislynch

[january]

There's a difference between accepting a potential incorrect route vs. being okay with a mislynch, which #268 comes across as. (snip)
My point being that if you find it likely Jam is town here to a decent degree, and you have demonstrated you're comfortable with a mislynch, why not then flip someone who has also had interactions/could have info with their flip?

i think i’m just convinced jamelia is scum and trying to justify the lynch to myself tbh. (snip) but the reason i want to vote jamelia isn’t that they might flip town, it’s that i think they’re scum. BUT if they flip town i’ll be ok

not sure how you're interpreting this as me thinking that jamelia is town... of all the players in this table right now, I think that jamelia is the most likely to flip scum, therefore i want to vote them

re: zenith - first, the reason I'm not voting zenith is that I do not scumread them as much as I do jamelia
second, I did townread zenith earlier. it was a slightly unorthodox read, since i basically townread him for acting way too obviously scummy. I really don't think your interaction with zenith is as alignment indicative as you think, mostly reads to me as two people being annoyed with each other. if anything, i scumread you more for the zenith-suspicious interaction.

so no, i do not scumread zenith. i do scumread jamelia. therefore, i vote jamelia

[january]

#284 reads to me as frustration with being meta tunneled by tictac - and honestly i agree it’s a very bad reasoning to fully base a lynch on. at best it’s NAI (just frustration) but it kinda leans to me as mafia frustrated at being scumread for some dumb reason

might be my confirmation bias or something, don’t feel like it was at all towny though

[january]

welcome welcome

don’t really think anything ceejay has done is particularly scummy and i’d like to at least give skitter a chance to play - can we not vote her today pls

[january]

Well, Cee didn't do particularly anything period. There shouldn't be any passes given to slots; let them speak for themselves.

you're clearly misunderstanding what i'm saying... ceejay was completely null. they weren't particularly towny or scummy. the reason people were voting them is because they weren't contributing. so what i'm saying is to take the votes off the new player so we give them a chance to contribute, and then determine whether they're town or not. I'm not giving them any more of a pass than I'm giving any of my other nullreads.

my opinion on Jamelia still stands, I don't think he's scummy. The "egg on your face" quote makes it seems like he gave up from being bombarded with meta questions

do you think this is towny then? or is it just null?

[january]

Since when does voting for someone prevent them from contributing?

well if they get lynched they can't contribute can they
i'd assume a vote at this point in time is a vote to lynch, so i'd rather not lynch someone who's at best null?

is there any reason you're voting me or is it just an "i don't like what you said" vote

[january]

thought they were voting for the inactive players because they're a "liability" - isn't what Bailey literally claimed to be doing? (too much effort to find the post he said that but I'm pretty sure he did). in the games of mafia I've played offsite, it's common for people to use mislynch on players who seem like they're not going to contribute or towntell. and usually at this point of the day i don't think voting to pressure is as effective anymore. direct questioning is probably more effective now

also can you respond to the other half of my post too

is there any reason you're voting me or is it just an "i don't like what you said" vote

[january]

@Zenith hey can you stop only reading half my post its annoying :((

also can you respond to the other half of my post too

is there any reason you're voting me or is it just an "i don't like what you said" vote

[january]

just noticed this post

Honestly I’m so frustrated with your reasoning about why I’m scum that I’d honestly feel more satisfied being lynched and flipping green, with you with an egg on your face than me trying to beg and please about why I’m town.

ok this is how i read this post from Jamelia:
Jamelia is basically assuming that tictac is town with bad reasoning in sentence 1, right? Jamelia wouldn't say they're "frustrated" with mafia's reasoning, he'd just go straight to calling out tictac as mafia.

honestly have no idea what "an egg on your face" is even supposed to imply... is it saying that tictac would be implicating himself as mafia? but Jamelia assumes they're town, so is it just saying that tictac will look stupid - as town?

and then this part:

If you think my lynch is helpful, then go for it. If I’m lynched on D1 or D4, as long as town wins I win. You’ll just be sparing me having to deal with your

pure analysis that is flawed

, and you know it.

once again seems to assume that tictac is town who has flawed analysis. also - what exactly does "you know it" even mean? clearly tictac does not believe his analysis is wrong, so are you calling tictac mafia or not??

Also, "as long as town wins I win" literally reads as "i am town so you should know i'm town" which is completely unnecessary and just... scummy. this part just feels wrong to me

i don't think Jamelia indicated anywhere that they thought tictac was town before this post (if anything, he seemed to imply a scumread). #284 feels like a scumslip calling tictac town

[january]

i'd like someone's thoughts on this ^^ if anyone's online

kinda scared i'm just confirmation-biasing reads now... but it feels right...

[january]

so much to read ahhh i have a midterm tomorrow to study for but i promise i'll do more tomorrow hopefully the day isn't over by then

i skimmed and got most of the content
meh on everyone backing off of jamelia - don't feel like they've towntold to warrant the backing-off besides the very AtE post in response to tictac. feel like new players are more than capable of faking indignant posts as a way to "towntell" (@whoever said new players probably wouldn't fake that)

dunno who else i'd be willing to vote atm but i'll figure that out tomorrow sorry

[january]

Jamelia never presented reads outside of being uneasy regarding your slot being new yet speaking as a veteran--which was cleared up when you clarified your prior experience--and scum-leaning Zen. Per their own admission, they didn't have many reads to give on any situations and the tunnel by tictac dissuaded them from pursuing anything; they became locked in on trying to defend themselves.

It looks more like, in #338, you're digging to make things crop up so Jamelia is locked as the lynch today. They haven't implied tic as scum or town previously, and if anything the implication here is that Jamelia is giving them a town pass; they claim tic's arguments are off-base, even though they could be coming from a town POV, and they'll look poor in hindsight for following through. Town/mafia alike can get bad looks for lynches that go poorly, so I don't know why you seem to imply it's a scum-exclusive remark to make.

i felt like it was strange for jamelia to be giving tictac a townpass there without even explaining it - like i would have expected it accompanied with an "i hate you tunneling me but i think you're town" type of message. i would think normally if i got tunneled really hard by someone i wouldn't just assume they were town. i'm aware that "bad look" can also apply to mafia but the way Jamelia was saying it didn't sound like they were calling tictac mafia ever.

i said this already -

if jamelia thought tictac was mafia they would have said that explicitly

^that's why i'm pretty sure jamelia thinks tictac is town from that post^

and yeah i kind of am trying to dig for things to get Jamelia lynched - because i scumread them? i genuinely think jamelia is the best lynch here right now and i'm trying to convince everyone else (which i guess isn't working lol)

[january]

w/r/t #284, the ending bit there probably refers to tic's login time argument, which Jamelia has been vocally against. It's shaky ground to stand on and I agree it's poor basis for an argument, and it noticeably brings a lot of frustration out of Jam. I don't think scum collapses this easily, basically taunts town by saying they'll look stupid, then exits the site.

-"exits the site" part is NAI
-don't think this is as much of scum collapsing as it is trying to sound like frustrated town and overcompensating and now sounding like they're mad at tictac for having that reasoning instead of being mad at tictac for scumreading them
i've seen this before, where scum gets mad at being caught/fossed/lynched for a stupid reason when they think they've been towny. (usually with more experienced players, sure but i think its possible with a tiny bit of coaching from scumpartner)

And I understand that this is still nitpicky, but every time you make these disclaimers it pings me the wrong way. I don't think you can call out anyone for not confidently stating a read when all of yours come with safeguards attached.

um did i call out someone for not having confident reads and forgot about doing it or something

[january]

well this vote is very split lol

does either person voting me have any reason behind the vote or are they both still votes for pressure even though we're at a point where we should be actually voting to lynch

@Vorkuta
@Zenith

[january]

Part of your push on Jam is that they haven't passed any reads/did not confidently read tic as either scum or town.

I think you’re misreading every single thing i’ve said lol

i’m not pushing on jamelia for not having reads

i’m pushing on jamelia for seemingly townreading tictac - we both agree that jamelia was giving tictac a “townpass” in that one post, right?

i’m saying jamelia is scum because they townread tictac for no reason.

i brought up jamelia having no previous reads to support my argument that Jamelia has no reason to townread tictac

jamelia assumes the person with “bad logic” tunneling her is town - why? because he’s mafia

does this finally make sense to you or are you just trying to sound dense

[january]

sorry wrong pronoun
** jamelia assumes the person with “bad logic” tunneling

him

is town - why? because he’s mafia

You also did much the same at the start of the game in #83 when you questioned Suspy's vote on Bailey, stating it was a weak/baseless read, which ignored the actual reasoning provided.

is that what you thought i was doing the whole time lol

i wasn’t questioning your vote for being wishy-washy weak (like what you’re saying my reads are)

i was questioning it for being

bad

weak - as in it has bad logic to support the read

And, for what it's worth, all I can gather from your own reads are a scumlean on Suspy, townlean on Zenith, and scumread on Jam, with a potential side of Vork.

good for you! you guessed my reads congrats! do you want a bunny as a reward?

it’s not like you’ve made your reads that much stronger lol

the only one that matters right now is that i clearly scumread jamelia - the rest are subject to change but hey let’s vote jamelia and figure it out later

[january]

does either person voting me have any reason behind the vote or are they both still votes for pressure even though we're at a point where we should be actually voting to lynch

Yeah- posts like these.
I'll consolidate when/if necessary, but no

lol

any posts before that? or did you just forget why and you’re just making up stuff now

[january]

VOTE: january

zzz

good luck with that vote lol

so are you an arrogant town or mafia trying to pretend to be arrogant town

[january]

so if the people voting me right now

-vorkuta is too lazy to actually give real reads and when i ask him why he’s voting me he answers it’s because i asked him why he’s voting me??
-zenith refuses to answer anything i say but he’s sick so i’ll give him a pass - but can you Please answer before the end of the day thank u
-auspicious is either trying to ego lynch me or he’s mafia

nice wagon y’all

[january]

Part of your push on Jam is that they haven't passed any reads/did not confidently read tic as either scum or town.

I think you’re misreading every single thing i’ve said lol

i’m not pushing on jamelia for not having reads

i’m pushing on jamelia for seemingly townreading tictac - we both agree that jamelia was giving tictac a “townpass” in that one post, right?

i’m saying jamelia is scum because they townread tictac for no reason.

i brought up jamelia having no previous reads to support my argument that Jamelia has no reason to townread tictac

jamelia assumes the person with “bad logic” tunneling her is town - why? because he’s mafia

does this finally make sense to you or are you just trying to sound dense

When did I townread Tictac and give them a pass? I said they’re going to have an egg on their face when I get lynched and flip green. Whether they’re town/mafia doesn’t matter in this scenario. If they’re town, they’re going to look dumb for hard lynching someone who isn’t mafia. If THEY’RE mafia, they’re going to look bad for hard lynching me and an unnecessary target on their back.

Regardless. If they’re town and I get lynched, they’re gonna blame ME for “not being a cooperative town”, and won’t see why their analysis of me is dreadfully flawed. At this point nothing is going to change in my opinion.

I’m still trying to figure out who I’m personally leaning toward. I need to analyze this more

ok hey maybe you’re just really bad at responding to pressure lol

so can you clarify your stance on tictac? because if you were getting pushed by someone who you think is mafia, do you think you’d respond like you did?

cuz i definitely wouldn’t. if i was getting tunneled by mafia (see example: suspicious) i wouldn’t be going and telling him that he has bad logic and not even say i scumread him

how bout u be a little less reactive and tell us who you’d be willing to lynch right now

[january]

wow... trying not to get lynched is a very scum-indicative action...
you got me...

[january]

think: would a town want to get lynched? if they think they’re literally one of the most towny players at this table?

correct answer is no btw

[january]

wow! are you claiming mafia too!

hi there partner

[january]

eh ok i’ll stop pretending i’m misunderstanding your argument lol
it’s just annoying as fk and i’m annoyed

sure i acknowledge that mafia is often aware of and concerned about a wagon on them but that’s usually more significant earlier in the day when votes are more for pressure

right now any vote that’s up SHOULD be for the sake of lynching. and i really really don’t think i’m the scummiest player at this table so i’m a bit confused why you want to flip me first even if you agree that other people are scummy

[january]

I play these games specifically to be ignored and insulted, makes the experience very entertaining.

wow isn’t it great right
you should try live chat mafia if you haven’t before

it’s even worse

[january]

are you talking about yourself

[january]

if so then

i’m not comfy with 3 votes on me and my biggest scumread not voting yet

that could put me at L-1 and bailey is somewhat unpredictable to me

and i don’t want to be lynched

so i’m talking to you since you’re actually responding to me lol

[january]

and you seem like you’re actually able to be reasoned with

so even if you’re scum i can reason with you

and if you refuse to listen to my logo (which in my completely unbiased opinion is very Sound Logic) then i can challenge you for it

whereas Zenith isn’t responding at all, so there isn’t anything i can do to challenge him atm until he comes back
and suspicious is playing off his lynch as an ego lynch which means he’s gonna refuse to listen to logic whether he’s town or maf

[january]

looool consolidating on me good luck dude

sorry where have i even insulted you besides calling your lynch ego lynch and saying you’re annoying me

[january]

clarifying #517:
vorkuta seems reasonable. i’m trying to appeal to him and if i feel like he’s blatantly ignoring my appeal and not considering it at all, i’m going to say he’s mafia. i’m not saying he’s maf if he doesn’t agree with my appeal but if he’s clearly making no effort to listen then he’s not genuinely looking for mafia

so far feels like he’s actually responding

[january]

well hello george
way to split the vote even more

gonna go run some errands i’ll be back in a bit

unvoting for now i think there’s a chance jam might be just a town crumbling under pressure, gonna give them a chance to respond and make decision later

UNVOTE:

[january]

sorry tictac i’ll give you back your bunny

but in all seriousness we need to agree on a vote soon i’m gonna hate you all if we end up nolynching

[january]

#521 is kinda a response to #520 without me actually reading it

would the kneejerk thingy be indicative of town to you or what

and does 521 sort of address that point if so

[january]

#333

I might be completely misunderstanding your post but i don't see how 333 explains why you fos me (or why you're voting me since i guess they can be different)

Lynching inactive players or null reads is a pretty bad idea, and should be a last resort, done only to prevent a no-lynch if there are no scum reads. Even then, lynching someone for inactivity isn't much better than having a day end in no-lynch. Is much preferable for inactive players to get replaced rather than lynched.

i agree with this?? i was saying that I thought Bailey was voting ceejay just because they were inactive, and i said that that was a bad idea

I can't speak for everyone, but voting a null read can be used as a probe to get a better read. Voting an inactive player can be used as a way to attempt changing their behavior, to promote activity and contribution. It should be obvious, but voting isn't always about seriously trying to lynch someone.

is this you explaining your vote on me or saying that Bailey's vote was to make ceejay participate more

soo is your vote real or not i don't think i understand

[january]

since i know everyone really really cares about my reads (this is sarcastic)

but anyways
i meant to consolidate all of this a lot earlier but it's finally done

TOWN:

tictac

- hard town as i explained earlier, the effort to lynch jamelia seems impossible or very hard to fake as scum, wp if you're scum

townyish:

fancypants/drdolittle

- fancy towntold a bit, dolittle hasn't really but eh

vorkuta

- like you for your interactions with me, at least you're willing to share why you voted me (as opposed to anyone else voting me atm)

skitter

- only on this level because everyone else is scummier but i'm a bit paranoid (maybe intimidated is the better word) by your meta of being supertowny as scum

scummyish:

zenith

- avoided my "why did you vote me" question so hard lol and i would like to get a real response before deciding where exactly to put you

georgebailey

- i kind of defended them at the beginning of the day but they fell off pretty fast

MAFIA:

jamelia

- feel bad for putting so much pressure on you, but you kinda crumbled and if you're town the responses to the pressure were still way too weak

suspicious

- literally impossible to communicate with and your vote on me was definitely an ego lynch if you're town, pls work on reading better. also your "case against jan" is just... not there... i can't believe town can be this dumb or scum can be this scummy

[january]

and yes this is in order towny to scummy even within categories so for example i fos bailey more than i do zenith and etc

[january]

[Suspicious's] "case against jan" is just... not there...

more on this:
if 443 is supposed to be your justification of your vote i'm not sure i see anywhere in that post that you actually fos me

you're just generally disagreeing with everything i say

but that doesn't make me particularly scummy? i can just be a town who has bad reads to you - you don't seem to townread tictac, who quite literally had the same read as me on jamelia

i'm really not sure where i did anything that is AI to you - if you point it out then lets discuss, but you haven't signaled that you found anything I said particularly alignment telling yet (you just disagree w/ it) so im not sure where your case against me is

[january]

don't seem to scumread tictac** mybad

[january]

well damn

both of u so scummy though

[january]

well hello george
way to split the vote even more

gonna go run some errands i’ll be back in a bit

unvoting for now i think there’s a chance jam might be just a town crumbling under pressure, gonna give them a chance to respond and make decision later

UNVOTE:

Oh my god. Shove it with this “town crumbling under pressure” BS. Y’all came up with (and are still driving) this meta-driven scenario that I purposefully let someone stay on L-1 because I “checked the website and wouldn’t allow this to happen”. If that’s the strongest scum read you have against me then your scum-sussing skills are disasterous

mate i never ever ever said i fossed you for checking the website or whatever the meta read was

that was tictac and if you can quote me saying that than by all means feel free to lynch me

i townread tictac for making that read EVEN THOUGH I DISAGREED WITH IT

i fossed you for your RESPONSE to tictac's read NOT BASED ON of tictac's read

you're lucky you're clear lmao you're misrepresenting every single thing i say and just refusing to read

[january]

anyways

[january]

I think that January & Fancy(before DrD) were hiding behind Tic’s meta-driven scumread and went for it. Once I VL/A’d and Tic was off of me,

they moved onto different targets

since mine was off me. DrD came in and stuck up for me, while tic went back on me immediately and January followed.

what... where... please explain where i "moved onto different target" when you went VL/A (btw the answer is: i never did)

i literally only backed off of you yesterday and that's... while tictac was still trying to lynch you lmao

so no i'm was never "following" tictac

anyways i realize i'm picking a fight with a clear for no reason but i'm just really really amazed at how easy Jamelia just... makes up things...

good thing you're dying soon

[january]

so you actually don't think you were scummy at all.

neither of you.

lol.

[january]

hes mason with jamelia

mason is conf town

[january]

i'm probably jumping on the george wagon in a bit but my reads got a little shaken so i'm gonna try to reread

[january]

little bit of a meta read but if george is maf here then his partner is definitely not online atm because this isn't playing dumb this is actually fullblown obliviousness

[january]

so you actually don't think you were scummy at all.

neither of you.

lol.

I think we weren’t cooperating with what was illogical game analysis. At least from my POV

meh like i said tictac's analysis was mostly illogical but i still stand by my analysis

cmon you got to realize that you were more than a little bit scummy from an outsider POV

[january]

??

how does that not confirm them

are you counterclaiming PR?

because otherwise they're confirmed town unless you think DDL and skitter are going to cc PR

[january]

yep thats exactly it

definitely not like mafia kills clears or anything

[january]

they would counterclaim because both jamelia and suspicious would be confirmed scum? for lying?

[january]

dang theres no point in reasoning with bailey i think he genuinely Does Not Understand

i retract what i said about partner being offline i don't think a partner would be able to explain it to him either

[january]

@Zenith it wouldn't make a difference, there's nothing to roleblock

[january]

nevermind think i misunderstood what you were saying

matrix6 seems slightly flawed with d1 claiming (little OP for town imo)

anyways i think bailey is at L-1 if i can count correctly

[january]

btw not really important anymore but

i don't think it was necessary for both masons to out. if only one had outed they could lead the lynch and they'd still be clear unless someone non-mason ccd

[january]

reads:
suspicious & jamelia, clear
tictac
vork = zenith, basically even idk i still keep getting u two confused a little bit
dolittle
skitter
george

[january]

well maybe idk

i think suspicious was probably going to be lynched at the end of the day

he kinda just started scumtelling a ton (i guess cuz he knew he was clear and could get away with it or something)

[january]

ok guess you're the townier one

honestly have no idea how i get you two mixed up lol my brain works weird

zenith is way more confrontational i think, but not really sure if it has anything to do with alignment

i'd like to say i townread vork more but i feel like it's mostly just cuz you're easier to interact with

[january]

waiting for something that actually makes me want to hammer you (im rereading)

the whole time i put you near the scum side of my list was just based on other people's reads

i didn't think it mattered that much since i wasn't going to lynch you

[january]

@Vorkuta can i ask you why exactly you voted bailey

[january]

we were lucky i guess

@george before you realized suspicious was clear, why'd you vote them? i thought you were trying to get skitter lynched earlier

btw you're still voting him

[january]

mmk

george you're one vote away from getting hammered but you're not even effort-ing to save yourself. did u just give up or is there someone else you want lynched

[january]

kinda feel like a different vote but i don't think it's possible with the time left and ppl already voting

[january]

voting georgebailey: 4
suspicious
tictac
vorkuta
drdolittle (has been offline from before pr claims)

zenith, skitter, january, jamelia(?) not voting

bailey voting vork

[january]

didn't realize there was only 4 hours left damn

[january]

alright final thoughts and i think i might just need to hammer

like i said earlier, i wish we could lynch someone else besides bailey but i think that's impossible right now and a huge risk of nling even if it was possible.

i think skitter might be a better lynch here. they still read as null to me even after that many posts, which feels strange to me, kinda like they're trying to pass as town but they're not quite towny... (dunno if that makes any sense). like drdolittle came in at the same time, and with less posts already established himself as towny. don't feel like skitter ever did this.

couple thoughts on the bailey lynch and the ppl voting him
-don't think vorkuta as scum would bus their partner with this bw, so they're not both scum
-pretty sure tictac is town BUT if he's scum i doubt he'd bus here
-i think drdolittle is town but their case on the george lynch seems a lot weaker than their case for a skitter lynch
-- why'd you vote george and not skitter? i think your reasoning for skitter was a lot stronger and i mostly agree w it

that being said, this is still better than a no-lynch. bailey's still my 2nd choice and he hasn't really towntold. so if theres no chance we're flipping i will hammer near dayend

[january]

alright final thoughts and i think i might just need to hammer

like i said earlier, i wish we could lynch someone else besides bailey but i think that's impossible right now and a huge risk of nling even if it was possible.

i think skitter might be a better lynch here. they still read as null to me even after that many posts, which feels strange to me, kinda like they're trying to pass as town but they're not quite towny... (dunno if that makes any sense). like drdolittle came in at the same time, and with less posts already established himself as towny. don't feel like skitter ever did this.

couple thoughts on the bailey lynch and the ppl voting him
-don't think vorkuta as scum would bus their partner with this bw, so they're not both scum
-pretty sure tictac is town BUT if he's scum i doubt he'd bus here
-i think drdolittle is town but their case on the george lynch seems a lot weaker than their case for a skitter lynch
-- why'd you vote george and not skitter? i think your reasoning for skitter was a lot stronger and i mostly agree w it

that being said, this is still better than a no-lynch. bailey's still my 2nd choice and he hasn't really towntold. so if theres no chance we're flipping i will hammer near dayend

[january]

oops duplicated lol

TL;DR
suspicious and jamelia are masons so everyone wants to vote bailey

[january]

voting georgebailey: 4

suspicious
tictac
vorkuta
drdolittle

voting vorkuta

Georgebailey

zenith, skitter, january, jamelia not voting
(edited)

current vote log with day ending in 3.5 hours

[january]

-i think drdolittle is town but their case on the george lynch seems a lot weaker than their case for a skitter lynch
-- why'd you vote george and not skitter? i think your reasoning for skitter was a lot stronger and i mostly agree w it

dolittle do u mind answering this?

[january]

i doubt we'll get an extra extension since we already got one and there's honestly no more excuse now

[january]

don't seem to scumread tictac** mybad

january really mindmelds with me. Knowing you are town and looking at it FYPOV, I'm not seeing why you townread tictac. Maybe i'm missing something that I'd hope you explain.

assuming this is to me, if not i'm responding anyways haha

i

hate

very strongly dislike how much meta tictac used in the read on jamelia, but i do think it came from a town perspective. basically, i don’t think mafia would be putting this much effort into digging for meta to build reads because their reads are fake anyways. i highly doubt a scum tictac would be putting this much effort into lynching a town unless his partner was in danger of getting lynched

this was my main reasoning for the original tictac townread. i guess i felt like tictac was "mindmelding" with me the same way you're saying i do with you. we both agreed on the jam lynch and I liked his process, even if it was based on bad logic

[january]

there's no need to out your partner unless necessary, since if no-one cc's, then you are essentially cleared. Someone can tell me if I'm wrong tho

agree w this, but i think both of them were a bit at risk of getting lynched so more info to town can't really hurt there. rather not be trying to push a lynch on the one that didn't out for another 3 days and realize they're actually clear again.

completely random tangent did you guys know tactic is just tictac with the syllables switched

[january]

this suddenly feels like a town flip

i hope i'm wrong

[january]

mostly based on other people's posts i guess

don't feel like any of the people voting you right now are bussing you if they're maf. i think there's a maf in them

[january]

lol zenith and dolittle sounds like a fun interaction to watch for tomorrow

[january]

morning, happy scumday to vork

is it worth asking who did not vote for shorter night? or is it irrelevant?

[january]

also i would like to open today with a scumread on skitter

i would like to lynch them today

thoughts?

[january]

{jan/skitter}

out of curiosity, how much “coaching” between mafia members usually occurs in the mafia chat?

huh- CJ being december's hypo!scum partner would explain this comment- there's a night/day difference between CJ's and skitters level of..... 'involvement' in the game.

can ceejay be prodded it's been almost 48 hours

reading between the lines "can I get a better scum partner PLEASE???"

And the kicker

and i’d like to at least give skitter a chance to play - can we not vote her today pls

"hey now that I've gotten a really cool scum partner can we PLEASE not lynche her? kthnx"

And who knows what plan of action they've decided on in their scumPT but "hey lets distance and stir up a bit of drama for show" sounds alright, especially considering bailey's "dying remark" was "its skitter- vork u suk btw"

omgus

VOTE: Skitter

this reads very much like confirmation bias - would you like to reread what you posted and think about if there's an explanation for me doing that as town too?

because i could also just find a bunch of your lines and say "this is what his secret scum message is" lol

[january]

-"hey my scumpartner who's allegedly supposed to hold my hand and guide me through things is MIA so I might as well get a response in mainthread"

excuse me what makes you think i need someone to hold my hand i am more than capable of towntelling on my own

[january]

i mean

you can choose to believe me or not but i don't see why i would put so much effort into calling out a scumpartner for being inactive... i could easily rant to someone outside the game and like... not call attention to it here

is there any other reason you scumread skitter or is it just "i want to say they're partners so i'm going to find a bunch of quotes and remove the context that shows that january had a reason to say them. and then use them as proof that they're partners"

[january]

oh also pretty sure your entire point is null since i wanted skitter lynched before bailey died

and besides, nobody ever listens to people's dying fosses unless they're clears - at least in the games of mafia i've played. i've nailed mafia on d1 and gotten lynched and not a single person even looked at my reads. seems like you're just stretching everywhere lol are you elastic or something

but anyways i appreciate you voting the person you think i'm bussing instead of me. thanks!

[january]

- why doesnt january vote me if we're distancing ?

VOTE: skitter30

[january]

*
sorry that was the wrong smiley it looks actually happy lol

[january]

January, why am i scum?

well basically POE + a lack of towntelling imo

suspicious clear
i tr tictac
mild tr on zenith
dunno about dolittle
and i see it as there's 1 maf between you and vork
- i don't

think

vork would be bold enough to be accusing me of bussing and distancing while he's doing the same thing - but if that's actually the case then voting you is fine anyways

and i expected you to towntell earlier but i just... don't feel like you've done anything of note or any significant towny-ness

although right now vork is just flat out imagining stuff...
i think it's just that he genuinely believes it though bc i don't see mafia wanting me lynched so bad that they just make stuff up

[january]

Plus 734 is very town.

is that really my towniest post to you... lol

[january]

i like 715 so i'm basically gonna say that there is 0 chance that tictac is maf

and if he is then i'll just say well played and maf deserves the win

@tictac whos your other maf read with zenith then? doc?

[january]

and i see it as there's 1 maf between you and vork

?
There's two scum ...

yes i know...
i never said everyone else was town...

[january]

vorkuta you're so. annoying. to. play. with.
i don't understand how you justify your "i think this person is maf so

everything

they do must have scum reasoning"

i mean... i'm sure i've done that (see: push on Jamelia)
but i wasn't just blocking out every single thing he said

I read it as 30% tongue-in-cheek, 30% defensive, 30% 'lawl you got me, now let me try brushing it off with sarcasm' and 10% slightly forced

everything's scummy if you want it to be
i can be a lot more sarcastic brushing you off if u want (:

[january]

Suspicious has requested replacement. Searching...

didn’t notice this but uh
kinda sucks to replace in right here

[january]

with regards to 798

skit - i get why you say you have an ethical or whatever dislike for tic’s read on jamelia. i don’t think i ever agreed with the actual read, but my evaluation was based on whether I thought tictac would make that argument as town or as mafia. basically, even if u find the read to be bad or unfounded or immoral - do you think he would have made that argument as scum?

[january]

hi sorry just got the email

i've been catching up with this thread, just have a big paper due in a few hours and i promise i'll participate after this

UNVOTE:
i know vork's been using some shady logic but not really ready to vote him
will decide if anything's changed by noon tomorrow pacific time

[january]

or i guess it's noon today
whatever it's in like 10 hours

[january]

mandatory actual contribution post - or not

im actually overall just still pretty confused.

whenever i've played mafia, "i'm confused" was often a scumtell - as confused town, people tended to just put effort into un-confusing themselves, but mafia declares that they're confused (maybe to seem towny idk)

anyways that was heavy meta that might not even apply to this site but that's all the effort i have in me at this moment
promise i'll be back for real soon
don't end the day pls

[january]

alright paper is done im back

vorkuta you can't really call me out for unvoting skitter when you weren't even voting lol
and it's not like a skitter vote was anywhere close to going through was it

[january]

what side(s) am i flipping?

[january]

and on that matter, what side(s) was tictac flipping?

i still want skitter lynched and i think there's a very high chance that this wagon will be flipping town. i think vork HAS towntold and i genuinely don't believe anything skit has done has struck me as especially towny.

could you pls explain your nervousness statement because i have no idea what you're talking about and it all it sounds like is some sort of setup for MyLo

[january]

oh it was like "i haven't really been paying attention recently so I'm going to take my vote off" or something like that

more of a signal that i'm going to be back and figure things out before i vote

[january]

even if i'm voting in the minority and my vote doesn't matter anyways... still feel like i need to be as informed as possible with the vote if that makes sense

[january]

class for an hour but i'll be back

i will try to convince you not to lynch this if you haven't hammered in an hour

[january]

why is the mod note a smiley face it looks so ominous ahh

right now, skitter backing off of vork feels really strange... she was all for a vork lynch until very recently

i know people back off of tunnels as town, but the original push felt way too strong to back off now. feels like she knows she'll get lynched tomorrow if/when vorkuta flips town, so she's backing off and trying to kinda un-associate herself with the push

[january]

my reads suck though and based on the jamelia push i think it's more than evident that i have confirmation bias

but i still still don't like that unvote it seems weird

[january]

question - are you guys planning to try to lynch today or are we using the rest of the time?

i really want to get a flip soon (i'm impatient) but i'm a bit busy today and tomorrow. i'll push my thoughts around and hopefully someone listens but i don't feel like I have the time or energy to actually convince anyone until Sunday.

will still be lurking around and posting, just less

[january]

hey sorry i'm here

i feel like i had so much more energy d1 and now it's just all gone

right now i feel like im fine with getting either vork or skitter i just... don't have the energy to convince anyone and it looks like it's too hard to influence any votes and it's not even worth it if i'm only 80-ish % sure

if you scumread me for this, whatever - but i just feel a bit.. discouraged from having 2 bad reads d1 and the fact that this is going on for so long

[january]

so someone pick which one to hammer and i'll just follow you

[january]

Since you claim to never bus, that means you are confirmed town after a scum flip in which you clearly would have been bussing?

well if they truly never bus, then they’re never going to be clearly bussing

but meta isn’t really that reliable so the only real argument here is vork saying bussing is suboptimal here (which isn’t really true imo - don’t think it’s necessarily that mechanically bad to bus if you think you can towntell enough from it, esp when cleats have outed

i was going to say something else but i forgot what it was so i’ll put it in another message later

[january]

last post was supposed to say *clears have outed*

oh yeah and -

what exactly are both of you considering to be “bussing” ? like honestly right now anyone could push on their partner and know that they wouldn’t be lynched. are we talking about bussing as in lynching your partner or just pushing? because there’s no way you don’t push on your partner as maf.

i think this whole point is kinda useless. the only people who have been wholeheartedly pushing on each other are skit and vork - and i don’t think anyone is considering this as a partner interaction. but any other interaction, skitter or vork or anyone else could easily be “bussing” but not really trying to lynch

[january]

to skitter’s question which i kinda just ignored earlier because i didn’t want to answer it - but now i will just cuz.. it doesn’t feel right to put any less than full effort into a game (i tried, but my conscience...)

i think i may have said this before but i don’t really feel like quoting, so i’ll make vague references to things and if you really really want to get the references i’ll find them later

i don’t think i actually ever formed a real townread on vorkuta. there was one small thing where i was interacting with him - he was FOS’ing me for something, and i tried to reason with him and he sort of backed off. not as much a towntell here as him just avoiding an obvious scumtell of continuing to push on me with no reason. i kinda stored that in my mind as a towntell, but i think on a forum setting with more time to edit messages, it’s easier to avoid “obvious” scumtells.

it’s more that i think you have scumtold by not towntelling - honestly, i think it IS somewhat of a double standard, but i kinda expected you to be uh... good at towntelling because of your banner(?) i’m definitely trying to reevaluate right now and i think i’ve kinda forgotten half of the reasons i TR or SR anyone so i’ll try to update my reads once i do

also post #1000 hehe

[january]

possible teams excluding january whom I TR:

doc skitt

i don't think partner-doc pushes skitt in 937

vork skitt

vork on record on never bussing yet doing his hardest to lynch skitt

(ref)

skitt zen

I don't think partner-zen puts skitt to L-1 in 813

don't really think #1 is totally true, at least in 937 all doc did was say nothing skit said made sense - if anything that tends to be a scum/scum interaction from my experience. rather than pushing on partner for being scummy , maf says their partner doesn't make sense. might be more likely in the mafia games i've played that don't have a mafia PT, but either way - don't think it's a good idea to rule that one out yet, unless there was more that i missed

agree with #2, basically uncontested i think

#3 is a maybe, wouldn't rule it out for tomorrow, but yeah for now

[january]

and that's my contribution for today folks

off to bed but hopefully i remember to be around for hammer tomorrow

[january]

well yeah ok

but it’s unlikely u even said that yourself

wouldn’t say it’s a for sure loss since that means we ARE lynching a mafia today

but still yeah i think it’s near impossible

[january]

damn i'm here sorry - barely made it

i still want skitter so... i guess i'll leave it up to dolittle? who i don't really townread? oops

i'll let you have the hammer if you're still here but you better have a good reason for whatever u pick

VOTE: skit

i'll switch if dolittle doesn't come back if i have to get a lynch through i guess

[january]

alright this is too close and nobody is online and there's a chance i fall asleep and forget about hammering

please blame me for not putting in enough effort if this is wrong

hammering

VOTE: vorkuta

[january]

hey new idea let’s play follow jan this time

VOTE: skit

[january]

oh wait UNVOTE: [/v]
forgot blitz was a thing

still gonna vote skit eventually probably but eh

[january]

UNVOTE: failing at this sorry i’ll blame mobile

[january]

January do u have any scumgames on site for me to look at.

first game on this site, so not here. and i don't think there's a way for u to view my games on the other site i've played on
not really sure why this is necessary tho, i think you should have no problem with just reading my lines instead of having to compare it to something else (which can change anyways)

Also i still kinda hate your progrssion on me/vork. Also i still dont know why you're scumreading me. Also i feel like your posts are townie on the surface but they lack the ~follow through~ that i expect from town. Like you make posts but the thought process doesnt seem to carry through or motivate later ones, necessarily

my read on you was mostly some sort of tone/instinct read at first, but i do believe that it followed a (mostly) reasonable town-process. if anything, i think my process comes from a town POV even if its completely wrong - a bit surprised that you think my process is scummy

@tictac im still not sure enough to vote, hence the unvote - still waiting for something to convince me i guess

[january]

skit - i could explain my reads on u and vork again, but i’m pretty sure i’ve explained it in previous posts

if you really want i can go and quote everything but i think you could probably just ISO and check, and tell me if you have specific issue with anything i said. if i was to explain now it’d probably just be me parroting what i said earlier

and yeah what someone said about stagnating - it’s kinda making me want to spend less energy in this game (sorry - kind of)

[january]

zenith your reads are so... useless

[january]

tictac - not really sure about ruling them out specifically. i do think zenith’s towntold more out of the 3 so i might agree with u

idk i’m indecisive and i kinda just want this game to be over

[january]

geez that felt a bit dramatic

ok well first thing is that it's impossible for me to not take the replacement request into account, and i think it's a bit unfair to use that as a towntell in any way

[january]

second of all, i was online when there were 2 votes on dolittle (you can check my last online time or whatever - sorry if this isn't morally acceptable or something, but feels like this game is slightly morally compromised now anyways)

so to dolittle or whoever replaces them i should be clear

[january]

honestly... i just can't ignore #1069 and 1070

pretty sure there was a rule i read somewhere that said you couldn't use replacements as some sort of "i'm frustrated town" tell but there's no way to disregard it

i don't think he'd go that low to fake this whole reaction as scum.

[january]

The thing is, I think it's just skit tictac scum.

this whole game you're playing like absolute scum

???

[january]

soz i haven't been online for a little whille

yeah this basically confirms dolittle/teacher imo

but at the same time... what kind of mafia actually reacts that way in response to getting voted??

anyways this is way too much thinking for my peabrain and i'd rather get this over with if my one and only unchangable townread was wrong

[january]

sorry for voting u out so quickly but there isn't much you can do to redeem your slot and POE dictates this

VOTE: teacher

[january]

Welp it's zenith/january

i'm just as clear as you are for not hammering ddl earlier

try again

[january]

skit you're all over the place what's going on

[january]

@zenith @skit
i'm not sure why either of you are suddenly hesitating on this just because i voted...

based on the votes, the only possible scumteam that doesn't include teacher is january&tictac

and i get that whichever one is town is hesitant and wants to consider all options but... seriously?

[january]

who took so long last night just to do nothing/pick an obvious kill lol

can either of you explain why it took so long to hammer yesterday?

[january]

you can never completely solve the game though..

yesterday you basically said you had to check a few things too, and then you kinda disappeared. maybe i'm biased but it seemed way too obvious for you to take that long to "get there"

i guess this time you actually do need to decide

[january]

kinda feel bad for teacher and i hope he didn't actually read all 40 pages just to get quick lynched lol

also @zenith can you explain your unvote on teacher? just because they got replaced doesn't mean you'd need to change your vote. the fact that you put DDL at L-1 means you're pretty darn sure they're mafia, so whats up with that?

[january]

@january I'm not a fan of quickhammers. If I hadn't unvoted then your vote would have been the hammer. I've stated my thoughts on the issue earlier in this thread. It's common courtesy to state intent to hammer, wait for response, then either hammer or not hammer.

is this an answer to 1161? it doesn't really answer the question of why you unvoted

if you hadn't unvoted of course i would state intent to hammer before hammering

i was asking why you unvoted in the first place. you put DDL in L-1 but then unvoted and i'm wondering why you did that

[january]

@Zenith I'm talking about this unvote

UNVOTE:
Because replacement is here.

I'm not sure if you're just misunderstanding what I said, but this was before I showed any intent to hammer. you unvoted DDL/teacher and I'm asking why?

[january]

i'm leaning towards zenith rn for the following reasons:
- the first ~6 pages of the game were p awful
- i feel like he's been relying on the newbie card to skate by for much of the game but many of his (esp. early posts) belie that he has a deeper understanding of the game
- the vote/unvote with ddl yesterday was weird af
- overall don't have a reason to tr him rn, but i do think january has been kinda townie

I guess we lose then. Oh well, maybe next time.

does this mean you scumread me?

[january]

Tbh you rubbed my gut weird yesterday, but with january post 1164 rubs me the wrong way when combined with 1128 and 1129.

Did you also get the impression that she mistakenly thought she had hammered at the time, or am I just trippin?

? what? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ???

i think you can't read or something but i was asking you, in 1164, why you unvoted in 1120

given that i'm ASKING you about why you unvoted, i think it's clear that i aware that you unvoted. i thought my question was pretty straightforward so i'm confused why/how you're misunderstanding it lol. does my clarification help you understand now?

[january]

ok i'm gonna try one last time to clarify what i'm asking in 1 post
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

before this unvote:

UNVOTE:
Because replacement is here.

DDL/teacher was at L-1. Zenith was the 2nd vote so he's the one who put it in L-1, meaning that he thinks ddl

HAS TO BE mafia

, otherwise he wouldn't risk the vote in lylo.

but when teacher replaces DDL, he unvotes because of the replacement. if he's so sure that ddl was mafia, then why does he unvote there?

i think this is as clear as i can make it, and if it still doesn't make sense then idk

[january]

hm

[january]

hey @skit this is a kinda weird question but who did you think i was more likely to lynch at the beginning of today

@zenith u too i guess

[january]

i promise this question is (somewhat) relevant

[january]

oh is skit gone for the weekend i guess we just wait

[january]

1207 really feels like ur sucking up to a clear was there any point in saying any of that

[january]

ahhhh

ok so my standing scumread from before today was definitely skitter

but rn i think zenith's been scummier

and tictac seems to be saying zenith is scummier and its just making me more conflicted

hate pressure

[january]

jeez this game is way too complicated to read when there's been like 3 replacements for the same slot

[january]

alright so i'm just gonna

flip a coin

make a very educated guess and vote..

if this is wrong... sorry for lettin u guys down

[january]

VOTE: zenith

[january]

was i right?? was i wrong??

[january]

whew yay

sorry for pushing u all game skit

and honestly zenith i thought u played really well it was mostly just your interactions with DDL that confused me a bit

wp to both of u!