Open 769: Venrob's PYP X/Y (Town Wins)

[nomnomnom]

Let's fry that duck.
VOTE: Wooper

[nomnomnom]

The setup spec discussion is flying a bit over my head, I'll be honest

[nomnomnom]

Hm...

VOTE: Flubber

[nomnomnom]

Late to the party, but this is why I chose a number other than 1. I didn't even know what numbers were considered draft numbers.

Here's a theory:
Do you think that scums were more likely to understand that rule? They had a PT, they probably had a talk before choosing and they probably asked what the numbers meant since it's easier to ask that in a PT, rather than send a message to the mod, correct?

That means that people that make a nonsensical choice in terms of numbers have more chances to be town, while the people that have optimized numbers have more chances to be scum. That is unless scums are one step ahead, but yeah. That seems like a decent theory in my mind.

[nomnomnom]

My theory was the opposite. If one scum (i.e. Kerset) had understood the rule, they'd have explained it to their partners, but clearly that didn't happen.

It's still possible that a townie asked clarification to the mod mind you. I didn't though, my choice was pretty bad but I had no idea what the draft numbers meant, though we were playing another setup until it was posted in thread and everything.

Although what you posted makes me think: Scums would never pick a similar first number, so in theory, if scums aren't one step ahead, it's pretty clear that if we find one scum in a group, the other people that chose the same first number are 95% town.

[nomnomnom]

...or it's possible that a townie just read the wiki page.

The wiki page was completely empty when I first checked it. That's why I am saying all of this.

[nomnomnom]

...or it's possible that a townie just read the wiki page.

The wiki page was completely empty when I first checked it. That's why I am saying all of this.

It was just missing a close parenthesis in the link. Easily fixed.

I guess I'm the idiot in the story then

Although I'm not the only one that made that mistake. Hm...

[nomnomnom]

Although I'm not the only one that made that mistake. Hm...

What mistake? Not choosing 1 for the second number?

No, I meant the whole wiki page thing. I probably should have asked the mod for clarification about the draft numbers.

[nomnomnom]

I can get behind this.
VOTE: S_S

[nomnomnom]

I can get behind this.
VOTE: S_S

VOTE: nom

Don't like this sheep vote.

I'd like to put pressure on something_smart. What's wrong with that?

[nomnomnom]

Skit reads fairly town here, in my opinion.

To answer both Aaron and Skit, no I don't think S_S was obvious scum, but I had a bad feeling regarding his posts concerning setup spec. I'm not sure "the posts were negative and shooting down theories constantly" makes sense but that's probably how I'd put into words. As scum I do that fairly often, I tend to get angry really fast, try to shut down setup theories or at least approach them with a very negative mind ("It's that's true then why did you do this? You must be scum!"). That's what I did in Cats with Nero Cain regarding his night actions and his viability as a town!rolecop if you remember Skitter. I get the same vibe from S_S, so I feel pressure is deserved there.

[nomnomnom]

I would lie if his 9|1 choice wasn't in the equation though.

[nomnomnom]

Also to note that S_S tends to be very game spec oriented in a lot of his scum games, and that's my observation. In a marathon game I played with him he used setup spec to justify a completely insane event in order to clear himself and his partner from suspicion by claiming they were both doctors protecting each other. In Guns and Roses 2 his game contribution boiled down to extreme pessimism regarding the game because setup spec and making the worst town move which would be voting me.

In fact the only game he hasn't done that in was the Undertale large theme I played with him, and in there he was really "hey guys take it easy I know I will " and did not contribute one iota to discussions, only showed up once or twice to say hi. So there's that to consider, but that's obviously my limited experience with him.

[nomnomnom]

I guess that's fair.

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: Flubber
Going back on my previous read.

[nomnomnom]

Skit reads fairly town here, in my opinion.

To answer both Aaron and Skit, no I don't think S_S was obvious scum, but I had a bad feeling regarding his posts concerning setup spec. I'm not sure "the posts were negative and shooting down theories constantly" makes sense but that's probably how I'd put into words. As scum I do that fairly often, I tend to get angry really fast, try to shut down setup theories or at least approach them with a very negative mind ("It's that's true then why did you do this? You must be scum!"). That's what I did in Cats with Nero Cain regarding his night actions and his viability as a town!rolecop if you remember Skitter. I get the same vibe from S_S, so I feel pressure is deserved there.

I feel buddied

@nom

Not sure what I'm supposed to say, since I'm just giving my thoughts about your slot.

You feel different than in Electronic Mafia. In that game I probably would have ended up voting you day 1 when I could see what you did the rest of Day 1 if townies didn't do the stupid thing of expediting it. You're playing VERY different right now. I'd have a hard time showing what exactly is different I think, but it boils down to intuition.

I know your scumgame is competent, but I believe this ain't your scumgame. As simple as that.

[nomnomnom]

Nom, I don’t think you explained your Flub scumread? If not, could you do so please.

It's stupid (and don't take this the wrong way Flubb) but in the two games I've played with him Flubb has been completely useless in terms of posting and helping, so seeing him post a lot like this raised a lot of flags in my head. That's basically it lol

[nomnomnom]

Terrible vote choices imo

[nomnomnom]

Ok catching up from my absence.
@nom - in 89, what part of the setup spec was flying over your head?

not really the setup, more like the numbers discussion I'd say.

[nomnomnom]

Ok catching up from my absence.
@nom - in 89, what part of the setup spec was flying over your head?

not really the setup, more like the numbers discussion I'd say.

I don't buy this. Your 99 was more than competent. I dont know that I see a scum motivation for you claiming incompetence when you clearly had it, but if something starts to feel off, I'm going to revisit this.

my what

[nomnomnom]

Oh you mean post 99. That comes after me stating that the discussion flies over my head to try and get on board with the discussion. What's strange about that?

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: nom[\v]

They're not doing much and the way they're voting me for playing different (but not necessarily like scum) is a bad look

It's not because I'm not posting that I don't read this game or think about stuff

[nomnomnom]

I'd say I have the tendency to hyperpost as scum actually, which is proven by my scumgames. So you got that wrong.

You're playing very differently right now, and that's not a good thing. Makes no sense to give "I am a PR" to your hyperpost explanation either.

[nomnomnom]

hm... Interesting exchange

[nomnomnom]

leantown: {Kerset}
null: {wooper, Sirfetchd, Sujimichi, skitter30, nomnomnom, AaronFrost, Flubbernugget, Billy Pilgrim, rb, Luca Blight, Xayah, PMysterious}

So you have no scumreads?

That sounds like the town!S_S I know honestly

[nomnomnom]

I would but I don't feel confident in deciding Kerset/rb yet. I haven't analyzed that interaction well honestly.

I'm more confident that something's fishy with flubber especially when you consider he just scumleaned two people that voted/fos'd him.

[nomnomnom]

I actually think that Kerset has more chances to be scum. There are a lot of blanket shading in that ISO and the only vote is on rb. The vote/fos ratio is very low and I think that begs for more close examination.

[nomnomnom]

I think you could benefit from looking into the Kerset/rb interaction, especially kerset's wall of text before voting rb. Let me know what you think of that if you do.

[nomnomnom]

rb does feel verbose but I need to think about that.

I think Kerset's end of the interaction was very odd for sure. I'll even go ahead and VOTE: Kerset. That iso is textbook pessimistic scum having a very low vote/fos ratio. I think the key to decoding rb is actually residing in Kerset's wall.

[nomnomnom]

I don't like this VC. It seems that we are clueless.

Rereading this post now with the low ratio in mind is pinging me a shit load. I just feel this is standard scum behavior through and through. There's nothing in that iso that screams optimism and this early in the game it smells like scum.

[nomnomnom]

what do you mean by 'low ratio' exactly?

Picture this: someone's accusations or slight shades against people, and what they vote, can be seen as a ratio. I see it as a vote/shade ratio, where you can see what someone says in regards to people that could be seen as shading or outright accusation, and where they vote. In Kerset's case, their iso is full to the brim with shading and accusations, but the only vote that they've made is against rb. That would mean a 1/X ratio which is extremely low. A low ratio indicates someone that is more worried about finding reasons to shade and point fingers at people, rather than analyzing things and saying "yeah, let's vote here".

It's somewhat linked to "voting entropy", the amount of times someone changes their vote. I think townies hit that sweet spot with the amount of times they vote/unvote whereas scum feels more calculated (low entropy) or very loose (high entropy). Again, stupid theory stuff, just constructing mafia theories in my own side but this is what I've been thinking about when analyzing games

[nomnomnom]

I probably should post that kind of stuff in MD and see what people think about these concepts. Probably not much

[nomnomnom]

you know, i think kerset is pretty likely to be scum here

because it's like a soft accusation that i'm scum, but never actually says it. it's like, "haha oh yeah sure, you "forgot" - the natural follow-up would be to then say why they think i'm lying? or think i'm scum?

also: their only focus on all the content i've provided so far is not any of the opinions i've had about the game, but literally just the post in which i said, "i'm backreading"

this doesn't scan to me as town, whether new player or not.

VOTE: kerset

I think rb and me are very much like-minded in this regard and I think this very precise observation applies to most of Kerset's iso. This post sounds town.

[nomnomnom]

also most of their posts is just weak setup speculation

then an announcement that, "hey town seems clueless" - with zero attempt to actually provide a clue or direction

scummy as heck imo. complaining about a town performing poorly, without providing content to improve town's state of play is what scum do to look like they're frustrated town. but they really don't look that way at all to me

Yup. Rb's town. Fairly sure of it. We are on the exact same wavelength.

Let's go on Kerset instead, they're caught scum.

[nomnomnom]

aaron, opinions on kerset pls

@Luca: what previous experience do you have with Aaron that justifies him both having reasonable expectations of your typical towngame, and also, do you think that his confidence you're town is justified by your performance in this game based on that previous experience?

Two games previous, one where I was scum and he was town, and one where I was town and he was scum.

Kerset could be scum. They parked their vote on me pretty early for weak reasoning and posts have been mostly fluff other than early game setup spec.

forgot to say: vote kerset with me then? =]

This is also what I would do to someone that I previously scumread to check their alignment regarding someone that is simply more scummy all of a sudden. Typical questions and invitations to try and confirm or refute their own accusation and potentially trap scum into making mistakes. I resonate a lot with these posts. Rb is 100% town here.

[nomnomnom]

A low ratio indicates someone that is more worried about finding reasons to shade and point fingers at people, rather than analyzing things and saying "yeah, let's vote here".

wouldn't that be town indicative? town just want to say their thoughts no matter what but scum are always using their thoughts to advance a specific agenda.

This is why I say vote/shade ratio, and not vote/thought ratio

[nomnomnom]

What's my vote shade ratio

You're nearing 1, which is pretty good in my current standard, I guess.

Now I'm thinking of adding a shade/thought or shade/post ratio to all of this. I'll think about this later lol

[nomnomnom]

They're a subset of thought that are relevant, damn it!!

[nomnomnom]

I explained that with my post... I never said all thoughts are scummy, nor that shades inherently come from scum, I am simply pointing out the vote/shade ratio. That's all.

[nomnomnom]

I don't see how that's a contradiction. Aside from my point about your ratio you are acting in a textbook pessimistic scum way which is where I agree with rb. I think you're really scummy overall, the ratio is one observation, the pessimistic scum archetype is another.

[nomnomnom]

what do you mean by 'low ratio' exactly?

Picture this: someone's accusations or slight shades against people, and what they vote, can be seen as a ratio. I see it as a vote/shade ratio, where you can see what someone says in regards to people that could be seen as shading or outright accusation, and where they vote. In Kerset's case, their iso is full to the brim with shading and accusations, but the only vote that they've made is against rb. That would mean a 1/X ratio which is extremely low. A low ratio indicates someone that is more worried about finding reasons to shade and point fingers at people, rather than analyzing things and saying "yeah, let's vote here".

It's somewhat linked to "voting entropy", the amount of times someone changes their vote. I think townies hit that sweet spot with the amount of times they vote/unvote whereas scum feels more calculated (low entropy) or very loose (high entropy). Again, stupid theory stuff, just constructing mafia theories in my own side but this is what I've been thinking about when analyzing games

interesting theory, a few questions:

a) what is my ratio?
b) have you applied this theory before and if so, what were your results? do you have examples of where low ration == scum?

a) I noticed during our games that your ratio is naturally low. You're the kind of player who likes taking her sweet time sorting her thoughts out before voting, excessively so sometimes. Doesn't surprise me that you have a 2/10 ratio here. I think the more important facet is that while this is your ratio you have a lot of other posts that go in other directions (such as going back on one of your shading posts, observations, acknowledgement, etc). Compare this to someone like Kerset, where their posts are essentially only shading, so the ratio is more prevalent. I think I need to refine this theory by including shade% and stuff like that so it better reflects my train of thought. I'm not really good when it comes to statistical analysis but I feel I'm onto something.

b) I don't think so. I'm a much more emotional player. I "feel" rather than analyze. These are observations with the games I've went through rather than something I applied over and over, but I do feel it holds water.

[nomnomnom]

a) rb is verbose, sure, but that's not what i'm particularly taking issue with, it's that his posts are manipulative and seemed designed to 1. get aaron to doubt his townread of luca 2. buddy aaron

also nom what do you think about this?

I can see what you're saying and I see how their posts can be seen that way. I do honestly think though that they're following a more "trap the scum" train of thought. The posts were extremely snarky and had a provocation feel to them, so I doubt that the intent was to buddy Aaron. I feel this was much more of an invitation to make a mistake, since rb said they thought Aaron was scummy. As for your first point it didn't jump to me as much because I don't think of discussion that way. Second point is much more indicative of someone that's snarkily inviting people to do things, rather than buddying. That's how I see this interaction in particular.

[nomnomnom]

Kerset has really bad arguments but the approach they bring to the game feels towny.

Could you please explain that?

[nomnomnom]

I would appreciate everyone making votes, INCLUDING SS because fuck not voting until you have a concrete read.

I don't see why that bothers you this much, care to elaborate?

[nomnomnom]

you know, i think kerset is pretty likely to be scum here

because it's like a soft accusation that i'm scum, but never actually says it. it's like, "haha oh yeah sure, you "forgot" - the natural follow-up would be to then say why they think i'm lying? or think i'm scum?

also: their only focus on all the content i've provided so far is not any of the opinions i've had about the game, but literally just the post in which i said, "i'm backreading"

this doesn't scan to me as town, whether new player or not.

VOTE: kerset

I think rb and me are very much like-minded in this regard and I think this very precise observation applies to most of Kerset's iso. This post sounds town.

So basically you think rb is town because you have similar opinions on Kerset? That is a dangerous mindset to have.

I believe that if someone makes the same observations as me at such a level (as in, not surface level) and that I am town, then we're approaching the game with the same mindset which implies that rb is more town as a result. I'm aware of the danger but I think in this case I prefer to trust the mind melding.

[nomnomnom]

I think scum could just as easily fake it by 'agreeing' with a townie who trusts them/is townreading them and using then using that trust to get them to vote whichever wagon they want.

Are you implying I am scum? Is this discussion about Kerset still??

[nomnomnom]

Aaron feels SO odd in this discussion right now. It feels like you're arguing for the sake of arguing. There's something that's hard to pinpoint about you talking about rb and Kerset, but like... I'm getting suspicious of you about how you made a 180 on your Kerset read and I have the intuition that you're essentially locking yourself out of your Kerset read, because rb must be scum. That's how it feels like to me.

pedit: Also what the hell are those Billy votes? I am genuinely puzzled.

[nomnomnom]

You townread Billy?

I have no particular feelings on his slot but he genuinely didn't do anything for me that was worthy of scrutiny so to see people not address current discussions and active slots to jump there? I'd like to get some insight.

[nomnomnom]

As for your first point it didn't jump to me as much because I don't think of discussion that way.

are you really that confident in a townread on someone based on a sample size of one town game?

moreover, wouldn't you expect that Luca would probably go out of their way to appear reminiscent of their towngame to someone with a limited sample size to go off?

this sequence seems designed to get aaron to question his townread ? i'm not sure how else you can even read this

I sometimes do this to try and understand why someone does something I genuinely don't understand. I see the part where manipulation can be found, but I read it as "let me get on your level" questioning, which I often do.

Again, might be dangerous to do but I feel like I mindmeld with rb a lot here.

[nomnomnom]

apparently nom isn't reading it that way

I think she meant she didn't think it was scummy, and if she did mean that, she'd be correct.

Yeah I think that about sums it up. You see malice and manipulation, but I don't.

[nomnomnom]

I will now perform a magic trick.

Wooper wooper wooper

[nomnomnom]

Why do I get scumvibes from Wooper?

I swear to god I wanted to townread the slot because I've played many games with ducky where I soulread him and wanted to see how it develops but I have this sinking feeling that ducky isn't town.

[nomnomnom]

how is my argument in bad faith?

kerset talked mechanics, then did nothing but make vague complaints about town sucking, with zero effort to do anything about it, and is now just OMGUS voting me

does that seem like a town-aligned progression of play to you?

...yeah? Why wouldn't it be?

Do you think scum-Kerset thinks "I'm gonna complain without doing anything, and then I'm going to OMGUS whoever pushes me, and then everyone's going to townread me!"?

This assumes that scums do not display emotional traits and I'm not sure how I feel about this reasoning because ironically this is the angle I use as scum to get townread, so...

[nomnomnom]

This assumes that scums do not display emotional traits

No, I'm suggesting that scums (with the exception of Vorkuta, hi Billy ) don't intentionally make weak plays in order to be townread. So Kerset playing like they did is a byproduct of their experience level and playstyle, even if they do happen to be scum.

lol this is so weird to read this while being conscious of me having a history of being extremely weak plays on purposes to be townread

[nomnomnom]

Ah classic skitter doubting me all game long just because of that one normal that traumatized her lol

[nomnomnom]

Ah classic skitter doubting me all game long just because of that one normal that traumatized her lol

I mean ... it worked for me last time so

I think there were more factors that didn't service me that game such as the slot I replaced in that was honestly scummy so I think my usual scum tactics were flawed there. Interestingly enough, as an aside, the only two scumgames I have lot were two games where I replaced a scum. That's an interesting observation I made that speaks volume about the people I replace being really scummy before I come in and given that some people are seriously scared of my scumgame it doesn't help at all that I'm the one replacing these scummy slots.

I mean should i not be wary rn or ...

Do you think i should be townreading you?

I don't know? The fact that you're having doubts about me perhaps is a good thing given that you easily read me as town in Cats. I've also invoked this argument in Electronic Mafia with Tchill, that it's probably a good indication that I'm town if people are scumreading me early on lol

[nomnomnom]

Noms you seem to have some experience with skitter. She's made some pretty weak points at this juncture. Is that normal; is it indicative of her alignment?

Depends on the context. My analysis of Skitter is that as town, the more time passes, the more paranoid she becomes with the whole game. She also has baseline paranoid thoughts about certain slots such as mine because of previous experiences, so a lot of it could be emotional.

If it's early on, against a player she's never faced or that her paranoia/annoyance doesn't rise with the more time passes, she's more likely to be scum. Otherwise I'd say it's town indicative of her as long as it's in a paranoid context.

[nomnomnom]

there's awkward new and there's awkward new scum

What's the difference, in your opinion?

I know you haven't asked me but by experience my first time on this site was as scum and I can tell you that the interaction I had with people that suspected me very early on were awkward as hell so I think that being awkward should be looked into very carefully especially for a new player.

[nomnomnom]

at this point you have to also be aware that there's now 4 people who all think kerset is pretty scummy for similar reasons to me. by pure numbers, one of us is town. and unless you think that the scumteam is nomx3, wooper and myself, and that for some unbeknownst reason where none of us were under any pressure, we all decided to push really hard on kerset (again, if you are assuming that we are the scumteam) only to have them flip town?

Wooper thinks Kerset is town I believe? Why include him in the list?

[nomnomnom]

@nom3 When you shaded s_s, skitter and flubb you compared their gameplay to their previous games. When you scumread me you compared me to yourself and your general theories. Why didn't you compare me to my previous games like you did with others?

First of all I didn't shade skitter I believe?

Second, I have first-hand experience with them, which is important because I am an emotional player and I need first-hand experience communicating with people to establish "how they feel like". I don't with you so even if I were to go back on your games and analyze them I'd do a very poor job of establishing a meta for you. I've tried in the past and it ended terribly so I wouldn't want to do this again.

[nomnomnom]

@nom3 When you shaded s_s, skitter and flubb you compared their gameplay to their previous games. When you scumread me you compared me to yourself and your general theories. Why didn't you compare me to my previous games like you did with others?

Like even this post - i dont think this is the sort of post newb scum makes.
I think he actually wants nom to explain it, and it's more important to him than a lot of what elss is going on inthread rn (like, say, the current rb/kerset discussion)

Like i dont think newbscum focuses on this when they should be focusing on like getting the wagon off of them. This doesnt help that. I think he's asking because he doesnt get nom's approach here, and that's more important to him than anything else rn

I dont think this comes from scum

I actually think this could reasonably come from newscum for a lot of reasons. Silly reason but appropriating my own terms and accepting them as truth is something that guilty people do, I think new town players would ask questions like "What does shading mean here?" or something like that. If you've ever watched an interrogation suspects that are likely to be guilty are the ones that never challenge your theories, your accusations (as subtle as they can be) and instead feign ignorance or try to play in your game. Innocent people tend to be extremely offended that you're even implying such things in the first place and thus will display confrontational tendencies when it comes to accusations, or shading, or twisting words, etc.

The statement on top of that can be read as an attempt to discredit me: on top of playing in my own set of established rule (with my theory as bogus as it might be), they're trying to *logically* prove that I don't apply the same standards to them as opposed to others, which is a very efficient discrediting tactic if you're trying to show someone is biased. So I am not sure this comes from town.

[nomnomnom]

I'm still honestly confused by your Billy scumread

pedit: I have doubts on Skitter scum, I have empirical evidence that she tends to make weird reads based on a few factors

[nomnomnom]

See ducky this is why you should smash that vote button on Kerset

50 shades of scum

[nomnomnom]

kerset in both of their newbie games are markedly different to here

Well this isn't a newbie game...

What's the difference realistically

[nomnomnom]

i hope that i wake up to people actually having reads instead of masturbating over their analytical prowess for things that have nothing to do with people's alignments

I feel attacked

[nomnomnom]

go to bed rub and think about what you said.

daddy ducky is truly a sight to behold I'd be scared to disappoint you

[nomnomnom]

@nom - referring to 406. given that someone (it may have been you) said S_S plays pretty passively as scum wouldnt his lack of scumread also be part of his scum!game?

I don't know. But the only towngame I've played with him he was like "lol it's okay guys " and did not provide any concrete scumreads for a good while. I don't think I care about S_S right now.

[nomnomnom]

Kerset wasn’t under any pressure at all until after rb’s entrance, to be fair.

I agree, the basis for my scumread is entirely Kerset's play even before rb voted there. I think the responses are scummy but if you think it's a byproduct of pressure then just stick to the more important part.

[nomnomnom]

he doesn't actually seem to care about being wagoned that much, more about understanding the logic that's being used against him

And again that's something guilty people do, there are studies about how people that know they are in the wrong or did something bad will feign ignorance or not directly challenge subtler accusations against them. The subtle accusation that I made against Kerset (the fact that they shade people which is inherently a scummy tactic) was never challenged not even once. I'm inclined to believe that this is because Kerset is scum.

If someone was town and innocent you'd be sure that Kerset would be confused as hell with my whacky theories and say something like "what the hell are you on about???" especially as a new player but that did not happen. This is textbook guilty behavior.

[nomnomnom]

I don't like this Billy wagon, it comes out of nowhere and is lacking in substance, at least the way I see it. The argument is completely meta-driven as well so I am unconvinced, why are people joining this wagon?

[nomnomnom]

The argument is completely meta-driven as well so I am unconvinced

Do you see meta arguments as necessarily unconvincing?

I think meta arguments are good when they are supporting a theory that someone is scummy. Meta arguments themselves hold no water. That's how I see it. If you have a case on Billy and that on top of that you have meta arguments to support your positions I'm likely to listen to them, like with Kerset. But here? Nah.

[nomnomnom]

I think Billy is scummy regardless of the meta. His play lacks substance and his questions appear ‘for show’ rather than having any meaning. This is very different to his last Town game I experienced and much closer to his scum game.

Problem is I there are so many other scummy individuals in this game as well.

Show me examples of that. I don't see that in his posts.

[nomnomnom]

How do we have 5 people on this wagon???

[nomnomnom]

S_S didn't you say you parked your vote to stop being pestered about voting someone? Why are you still on Billy?

[nomnomnom]

Xayah's been pinging me a bunch lately as well. These plays make me uneasy.

[nomnomnom]

Qualifying an eloquent read that is all about you. Talk about convenient lol

[nomnomnom]

S_S why is the argument on Billy so attractive when it's main component is meta, but the same meta argument made on Kerset does not convince you?

[nomnomnom]

Unvote, Vote: skitter

This is mostly historical as it's looking like a bit of a one or the other and I had/have a scum read on skit.

I'd like a bit of explanation if you don't mind.

[nomnomnom]

I will admit, I've been mostly skimming recently rather than properly reading. I am finding myself agreeing with a lot of things nom is saying, I think their questioning lines are strong. SS was fine as well somewhere in the back of my mind.

I also remember not having too many issues with kerset either after trying to pay more attention. That said I do have a niggle that there was a stubbornness to not address suspicion on themselves which was a gambit I used to try and fail a few times when I was new.

That doesn't answer why you think Skitter is scum.

Moreover if you think my lines of questioning are strong, why do you decide to go on Skitter and not consolidate a wagon that I fully support 100% and on top of that is more populated?

[nomnomnom]

S_S why is the argument on Billy so attractive when it's main component is meta, but the same meta argument made on Kerset does not convince you?

Because rb said, "I know a scum newbie when I see one, trust me," and Luca said, "this is what Billy has acted like as town and as scum, and this is why his play seems more similar to scum-him."

That is not true. The meta of Kerset's previous games has been brought up by both rb and Luca. These two arguments are no different, and I am surprised you even missed that being brought up. So why is that, and if you legitimately missed this line of questioning, how does it change your read?

[nomnomnom]

That's a fair argument, I suppose.

[nomnomnom]

And to be honest, I don't even find Luca's case THAT compelling. But the threshold for who I'm willing to lynch on D1 is basically the null line, and I'd be lying if I said Billy being dead last in the draft wasn't also a factor.

How is being dead last in the draft order an indication that someone is scummy?

[nomnomnom]

i also don't think scum is this resigned/ok with getting lynched at this juncture ^

I think that's insanely wrong and I've seen people do this all the time and I was told not to freak out when people started a wagon on me in my first game, where I was scum, and I was approaching being the day 1 lynch really fast. You also have to remember that this is not a L-1 or anything, just one or two people that were pushing Kerset as scum when a few people pushed rb as manipulative previously, so there's a lot of relief to be had.

I think that assuming scums would freak out here is a completely wrong statement to make especially when you take the psychology of people that are guilty into consideration.

[nomnomnom]

Also to note that Kerset now has completely stopped posting things that were considered scummy by other people, subconsciously or not. That adds to my point that Kerset knows they fucked up somewhere and subconsciously stopped doing that. An innocent person would have already challenged these notions, or would have continued doing these things all the same.

Point to me a single Kerset post after my initial shading accusations that can be seen as shading. Spoiler: You won't find any. That is why Kerset is a good lynch.

[nomnomnom]

I'd agree with the argument that mafia players tend not to do that, but the reason I say this is because this player is a new player. Newer players aren't too likely to run gambits, or play 4d chess with other people or what have you, they're likely to follow patterns that we see everywhere in real life. Liars tend to avoid what's important and feign ignorance and never challenge things at the risk of exposing themselves as a liar and a fraud. That's a fact. And if someone plays scum for the first time is accused of doing something, my theory is that they're likely to do exactly that since they have no experience of doing otherwise.

I think this discussion is going nowhere though, which is sad, I find the subject fascinating myself.

[nomnomnom]

A lack of flailing can itself be a defensive method through reverse-psychology.

As I said, if you were to watch interrogations of guilty suspects, you'll see that every single one of them do this, it's actually kinda crazy

They think that if they show emotion or dare challenge subtle accusations they'll inevitably appear more guilty, but what they don't know is that psychologists know that the contrary is true. So what they do is shut down emotionally, feign ignorance, and side-step important questions in favor of completely irrelevant points.

[nomnomnom]

I'd actually argue that someone who is 100% logically consistent about their votes and their positions is more likely to be scum depending on their experience level.

[nomnomnom]

I think that you actually watch witch trails. The ones were witch is drowned and called guilty no matter the outcome.

Feel free to go on Youtube and watch these interrogations and you'll see if those are witch trials!

[nomnomnom]

I am quite sure that you would call me guilty in any outcome
Kerset still looks scummy - he is a scum
Kerset doesn't look scummy - he is a scum

If you do not look scummy or don't do anything I consider scummy I have no reason to think you're scum. You've done these things though and you've followed a scummy pattern afterwards. So you must be scum in my mind.

[nomnomnom]

How do we reconcile this with the fact that YouTube was supposed to be at first a dating website?

[nomnomnom]

My point is that for you this 'scummy pattern' is the fact that i don't look like scum anymore

I never said that. I said that as a result of me calling out your shade posts, you stopped doing these things entirely without being prompted which is incredibly telling of someone who is self-conscious about being called out about it. If you continued doing these things I probably would have rethought my position and told myself that it's just how you play, but here I'm led to believe that this criticism made you feel guilty so you stripped those away from your posts, consciously or not.

[nomnomnom]

Just so we’re clear, what exactly has Kesert stopped doing after being called out on it, Nom?

At the beginning of the game the majority of what Kerset posted were posts containing posts shading people, or in other words, pointing fingers at people and saying that what they did is wrong, and I pointed out initially that the amount to which kerset does this is disproportional to the amount of votes they put out, which I found scummy. On top of that they had a really negative attitude towards the game and made a few pessimistic posts.

You can fact check this, after rb's and my accusations against Kerset, they have completely stopped doing that.

[nomnomnom]

I know this conversation will go nowhere so let's just agree to disagree on this one

[nomnomnom]

ya at least for me as scum i'm very concerned with like matching sure all my thoughts ~line up~ and that i can articulate the thought process between like any two posts in case anyone asks

If you agree with this thought how do you reconcile that Billy doesn't seem to be doing this?

[nomnomnom]

I admit I am still confused that Billy out of all people in this playerlist is getting wagoned. It just feels so random, so much of an easy target to go after, the guy had barely any content and people went after him on day 1 with people making extremely dodgy posts. I still don't understand. I think that the wagon is extremely bad and probably has scum in it. I can't comprehend how people went to the conclusion that Billy was a good lynch. Even if you forget Kerset there are a lot of people worthy of scrutiny that got off relatively easy and I think that is no coincidence.

pedit: @Luca I am conflicted. I think I can't in good conscience put her anywhere else than Null. She's making extremely odd moves here that I'm not used to see, although again I've seen her do this in a micro with me where I thought the fact that she missed a logical conclusion for an entire day was perhaps indicative of a scum mindset, but she was town and simply paranoid of people. But here I don't get that at all so I'm just confused.

[nomnomnom]

In fact if I was to look at this wagon and point at someone who I think is scum I'd definitely vote Xayah here.

[nomnomnom]

which micro

also i don't like xayah's vote either

That one micro where I lost my mind lol

I'm referencing stuff that isn't important but the bottom line is that your paranoia of Ank basically caused you to lose your mind with her. I think you're a deeply paranoid person in general which justifies a lot of your reads but here with Billy I don't see it.

[nomnomnom]

The main topic of this game is previous game analysis. Its hard to deeply participate in this, when you haven't played with suspects and shallow shading is looked upon.

Give me a definition of shading.

[nomnomnom]

The main topic of this game is previous game analysis. Its hard to deeply participate in this, when you haven't played with suspects and shallow shading is looked upon.

Give me a definition of shading.

Posting something that could in result generate a scumlean on someone.

Then I can see why you're confused. For me shading is posting something in order to make someone look bad, regardless of scumread or not. Making someone look bad in this game can be seen as what you said but I think it's more general, and that's what I believe you've been doing the first part of the game: trying to make people look bad without really giving reads. Couple that with a defeatist and pessimistic attitude, and it fits an archetype of a scum trying to make people demoralized, which is why I think you are scummy, and why I think that you stopping to do all of this when called out on it is doubly scummy.

[nomnomnom]

I feel that i voted bc people force me to rather then bc i want to.

That's very sad to he-

Draft choice is such huge source of information. With double role pick {8,9,10,11} are able to find out which roles were taken by top players. It's obv that both {9,10} are scum.
VOTE: Aaron

i don't feel any need to defend myself. the fact that you focus solely on the first part of my content where i simply say i'm backreading the game that took 4 days to finally open, which i forgot about in that time is much more relevant to me than any concern for your accusation.

you know why? because you didn't even attach a vote or even apply a scumread. you just said, "sure, you forgot" and left it at that

and now the only content you're providing is to _defend yourself_ where previously all you did was talk mechanics, and complain about the state of the town's game - with no effort to improve the state of the town.

Why did you assume that i disagree with anything else? You state that i provide no content. Were would you read that there was anything else that was bothering me?
Even if you somehow guessed that i disliked one of your opinions, why would i comment a statement, which is one sentence long? It was obvious that you only glanced on topic so far, because you gave no arguments to discuss about.

I won't vote people every single time i ask them a question.

you're more concerned about how you appear than in solving the game, it's obvious.

You beg Aaron and wooper to backup you with votes - you are the one concerned about your appearance. For what other reason would you need votes on me right now? Especially the one, which came out of sympathy. I am not on L-2, so all you can get here is good look.

VOTE: rb

Uuuuuuuh...

[nomnomnom]

If rb is the person that should be lynched today why are you conceding on Billy, out of all people?

[nomnomnom]

Who are the scum driving this wagon in your eyes? Just saying you don’t like a wagon that much isn’t really going to do much to stop it.

Funnily enough I think you're the scummiest person on that wagon, as I said earlier. You feel off.

[nomnomnom]

Do I need to write a novel everytime I suspect someone? You just feel off with your posts and votes.

I'm unsure about taking my vote off Kerset though.

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: Xayah because I forgot to in my other posts.

That vote makes absolutely no sense with what you said previously.

[nomnomnom]

Even if you forget Kerset there are a lot of people worthy of scrutiny that got off relatively easy and I think that is no coincidence.

Maybe because you are under performing? You ISO can be divided to 3 kinds of posts: argumentation of your theory about me, asking ppl why they SR billy, saying that xaya feels off. I feel that you take no effort in this game especially when i see that you ask your second SR about read that she already gave and ask me for reason of my vote on billy instead of explanation of it (like you wouldn't notice this as well). If you are concern about this then i am sure that you are capable of giving better leads, unless you think that you can't distract yourself from me.

What is this post rofl

I've been doing way more than that. If I am underperforming then the rest of this playerlist might as well be going on a proverbial vacation.

[nomnomnom]

That Aaron post was so bad I'm almost inclined to switch to him for it. Kerset/Aaron might be a team here? Maybe?

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: Aaron

Just to prove a point.

If this flips scum Kerset is 100% scum as well. In fact I'd say that Kerset's first post was obvious distancing given that the point he made against Aaron is literally never brought up again. You'd think that for a player talking about mech it's still important but apparently it's not anymore so.

ftr, Aaron's post makes no sense from a townie perspective because he states that he's okay with a Kerset or a Xayah lynch yet goes on Xayah for no reason given that a townie would see Kerset having 4 posts on him and join that wagon but instead goes for a vanity vote with 4 days left on the clock. That's really scummy and there's no reason for Aaron to do this unless he doesn't care about wagons which is awful, or has a specific reason to think Xayah has more chances to flip scum which he has not stated. I'm willing to bet that Aaron is playing the best of both worlds here by getting townie points in case Kerset gets flipped but still not contributing to Kerset's lynch in any way whatsoever. Scum agenda right there.

[nomnomnom]

never line up multiple lynches. Always bad juju

I have high luck stats.

[nomnomnom]

Regardless of chain lynches Aaron's move makes no sense at all from a townie perspective especially according to what he just said so let's flip that slot if you guys are reluctant to go on Kerset.

[nomnomnom]

rb tell me why Aaron tells us he has interest in voting in Kerset or Xayah yet decides to park his vote on Xayah, a player that has no votes on her, instead of a person that has 4 votes on him.

pedit: what???

[nomnomnom]

Guys what are you doing? Are we going to ignore dodgy players just like that?

[nomnomnom]

Surely when I close my eyes the bad dream ends, we lynch aaron and flip a scum and we all have a good laugh

[nomnomnom]

We have a lot more content and reasons to get either one of Kerset and/or Aaron lynched. Xayah lacks in content. If she's scum then she'll have to be a day 2+ lynch imo. I did say her vote felt off but it's just a bad feeling in my chest nothing more. This wagon is stupid and formed way too quickly on a player that doesn't do much. Notice how other wagons took much more time to do so.

pedit: Luca look at what Aaron just did and you'll see why he's scum. He's saying that he's fine with either a Kerset or Xayah lynch yet doesn't push Kerset with 4 votes on him at the time, in favor of Xayah which is essentially a vanity vote considering no one was voting her prior. That makes absolutely no sense from what he posted. That's why he's scum.

[nomnomnom]

soz but I really want this game to move forward now and I'm honestly mind boggled by this Xayah push lol

[nomnomnom]

Nom, you said if Frost flips scum then Kerset is definitely scum as well? Then why not just lynch Kerset?

Is the opposite true as well?

Because people will not go on Kerset for some mystical reason so I'm trying to vote Aaron to see what traction I get from this. We were 4 but the wagon had no momentum. I guess the opposite is true but I want to cause movement.

[nomnomnom]

Xayah flips green please go on Aaron or Kerset.

[nomnomnom]

Xayah flips green please go on Aaron or Kerset.

What’s made you reconsider your Xayah read/suspicion?

The wagon on her. That and Aaron voting her. Terrible vote.

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: Kerset

[nomnomnom]

I'm not feeling suji, Aaron and Kerset feel like really good wagons. Do I really want to go on a lurker? I don't like it with 3 days left on the clock.

[nomnomnom]

Notice how other wagons took much more time to do so.

um both the xayah and aaron wagons have built p quickly just now

Nom did you address this?

I guess I see the Xayah wagon as completely bullshit so yeah lol

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: Aaron Take 2

[nomnomnom]

Meantime i start to suspect that rb and nom3 can be paired. It feels that they are trying to cut off association by going on different people. If you look at nom3 progression its really bad 969. Now she even went for 1010. She is firm but not convincing.

It's another edition of "is this a scum who can't keep up with their bullshit or just a townie who's had too much to drink" take your bets

[nomnomnom]

Between aaron or kerset i'd push kerset if I had the certainty he'd be lynched.

VOTE: Kerset

I don't have faith in a Xayah lynch.

[nomnomnom]

Good lynch, didn't expect Billy to actually flip scum.

Also was 100% sure that rb was town, called it!

What's the plan today?

[nomnomnom]

Probably analyze interactions around Billy's slot? Should get us a few townreads I believe, if nothing else.

[nomnomnom]

I'd like to correct you on one point: I did not oppose Billy's lynch, I was unsure he would flip scum.

A real opposition would be when people started voting rb en masse and I went out my way to defend them. THAT is opposition. I'm pleasantly surprised that billy flipped scum so that's a plus, but I'm not scum and lynching me would ruin our momentum.

Frost would be a good lynch today I believe.

[nomnomnom]

I have a good feeling that perhaps scum was on that wagon late for townpoints. Just an intuition.

[nomnomnom]

I’m not lynching you just yet, but your reaction/opposition/whatever you want to call it to the initial Billy wagon does look bad, and you were uncharacteristically quiet at the end of the day, but of course maybe you were busy.

Why are you happy with lynching Frost already? There are still other dubious slots in the game - what about them?

I don't think I was opposing it, I was just genuinely surprised people wanted to vote there because the slot produced almost close to nothing compared to everything and at the time it looked like potentially a wagon scum wanted to generate. Since Billy flipped scum I was proven wrong so that's good.

I haven't voted yet and I don't want to end today fast, I'm just saying where my lynch preference is right now. I feel like the initial suspicions on Aaron were correct from certain players. Possibly joined the end of wagon for townpoints.

[nomnomnom]

Haven't revisited kerset yet so still a scumlean.

Also yes I feel I'm up against it because I can read a gamestate and on top of avoiding getting lynched, I want to redirect town's attention on a scum lynch pattern rather than waste time on me, and in worse case scenario make me flip and giving scum some room to breathe. That's bad.

[nomnomnom]

I don't really see how I'm negative. If you want to see true negativity you need to read some of the other games I played, people like skitter can assess for me how frustrated and unhinged I can get

But this game ain't one of those.

Also let's see what happens if I VOTE: Aaron

[nomnomnom]

back there she tried to point us at xaya - the natural conterwagon that billy voted. Later she turned this read by 180 from unknown reasons, so i doubt that she was genuine by leading us there.

That actually isn't what happened but alright. I was voting you, then I thought Xayah did something suspicious so I voted there. Then I saw how she reacted and thought she was town. This is revision

[nomnomnom]

Nom, do you agree with the townreads I specified above?

S_S I agree with, still some doubts with skitter.

Xayah's pretty much town too at this point.

[nomnomnom]

Good lynch

, didn't expect Billy to actually flip scum.

Also was 100% sure that rb was town, called it!

What's the plan today?

That's not what you were saying yesterday.

Well yes, turns out I was wrong.

[nomnomnom]

I don't want to waste a mislynch on me considering that we profit from revisiting other slots.

You will learn absolutely nothing about the scumteam by lynching me. You'll end up in day 3 scratching your head and stuff. I'm a bad lynch.

I still think Aaron is a good lynch by the by. His last posts feel like preparation to justify a vote on me. Keep this in mind if you actually go through lynching me today.

[nomnomnom]

Luca reads fairly townie through and through and plays exactly like the game I played with him, plus he pushed Billy's wagon fairly well so I have no reason to doubt he's town you know?

You on the other hand...

[nomnomnom]

Besides I'm not really scared, I know I won't be today's lynch. It's just a matter of how much time we're wasting on me today before other townies can vote other scummy slots like yours

[nomnomnom]

Skiter you should know this isn't my scumgame lol

I'm going to iso Wooper and Suji right now and see what I have.

[nomnomnom]

BTW I finally rolled scum in a large game off-site and I got that "urge to kill them all" out of my system and I feel a lot more zen/mellow about mafia afterwards : ]

I'll continue to effort exactly as much as I can. can throw down newest scum meta if ppl are keen too.

Yeah this post was extremely awkward the first time I saw it.

Skimming very rapidly through his posts I don't see town!tw through them. I've read some of his games, he's usually a lot more analytic of situations. Could be that he changed his meta from what I saw in the normal games he was in, but I certainly don't see a shining townie there. Considering a vote there maybe.

[nomnomnom]

Suji reads town in this day 2 as of now, I think their thoughts are genuine and coming up with theories like that as scum is a bit harder to do spontaneously (as in, stating that me/aaron can be a team) so I'm inclined to believe this is town.

As much as I'd like to believe town!skit would be able to make the difference between my town and scumgame I feel like paranoia is taking over so she's probably still town? Survivalism is NAI btw.

I think I'll just VOTE: Wooper. He feels extremely dodgy and just going through the motions to me. If you have a towncase for him feel free to present it.

pedit: yes I read all of it and my sanity slipped pretty hard. I still think you could be scum here.

[nomnomnom]

THE HUNT IS ON

[nomnomnom]

What part of soft inno doesn't make sense to you nom?

I guess I skimmed that post saying that, my bad.

VOTE: Aaron

[nomnomnom]

skitter30 42, 5

HMMMMMMMMMMMN

[nomnomnom]

what was the justification for her to pick high in that game? I'm lazy

[nomnomnom]

Yeah okay I'm not getting into that draftnomics considering that scum!skitter would be extremely aware of this and it's basically wifom so yeah.

[nomnomnom]

Skit I think "forced post" might be your most overposted meme tbh

[nomnomnom]

Nom, thoughts on Flubs?

Easy to forget about the guy so your vote makes sense and I approve of it. I could vote there honestly, although Aaron seems like a much better lynch if you forget the "look at the lurkers" angle.

[nomnomnom]

what

[nomnomnom]

These quotes were pretty good I'm convinced.

VOTE: Flubs

choo choo

[nomnomnom]

Frost is just trying to pile up reasons to vote me lol

[nomnomnom]

Frost/Flubb look really enticing for lynches right now just pointing that out once more

[nomnomnom]

Little to no attempt?

I've thrown townreads around and I've made my case about how this isn't my scumgame, I ain't going to defend myself against one of my scumleans rofl.

[nomnomnom]

Yup. Because my self meta is actually a very good argument.

It's alright though, even if you get me lynched, the scum in Aaron/Flubs will be lynched, so this is very good for me

[nomnomnom]

Sure. Compare this game to Normal 2080 or 2066, even micro 871 and you'll see the huge difference.

[nomnomnom]

If you want to check my town games I die in most of them day 1 for some reason lol

[nomnomnom]

how do you reconcile the fact that your top 2 scumreads are people that scumread each other

[nomnomnom]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Nom

Out of my three main scumreads, you’re the one I’m expecting the most from and I’m not getting it atm.

I guess when I flip you'll understand that someone's activity has nothing to do with their alignment.

[nomnomnom]

it's kinda what it is. People are used to me posting a shitload and obvtowning but they're not getting that this game because I'm busy as fuck so they're voting me for it basically.

Just make sure you vote in flubs/aaron if you lynch me today I don't really care about the rest

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: Aaron

[nomnomnom]

As I said it doesn't matter, when I flip scum you're going down lol

[nomnomnom]

town*

[nomnomnom]

Also whoever said that my death means nothing is right. When I flip town you guys will be in the same situation next day. There are way better lynches that give us a lot more information.

[nomnomnom]

if it's not guaranteed then my lynch is even worse

[nomnomnom]

let's all vote aaron and have a good laugh when another scum falls

[nomnomnom]

I'm VT.

Unvote and vote in Aaron and Flubs, my lynch will lead to nothing tomorrow.

[nomnomnom]

what do you learn from me flipping green?

If you don't have a good answer you REALLY should unvote

[nomnomnom]

I know I haven't been townie but really I have a lot of shit IRL and towning up is boring, I'd rather just push scum.

I'm thinking Flubs maybe has more chance flipping scum? He sounds really bad, moreso than Aaron. If I get lynched today I recommend a flubbs lynch first maybe

[nomnomnom]

what do you learn from me flipping green?

If you don't have a good answer you REALLY should unvote

latergame w flips this phase should be a spicemine

what do you you ever learn from mislynching anyone ever noms

associations?

[nomnomnom]

let's get that poor sod lynched y'all

[nomnomnom]

nah not really I just want Aaron to die a brutal death let's get him

[nomnomnom]

Winter is ending.

[nomnomnom]

I'm not really defeatist I'm just pointing out the obvious.

If you don't believe me today it's alright, you're going to see that for yourself tomorrow, don't say I didn't warn ya

[nomnomnom]

lol

[nomnomnom]

Just vote Aaron pls

[nomnomnom]

confidence about to get smashed with my flip lol

[nomnomnom]

lol I have to admit it's fun to see people scumread me for a thousand different reasons

if that doesn't ring an alarm bell that scum are pushing the easiest lynch by all means hammer me and feel stupid tomorrow lmao

Also Luca what the fuck is that about me and my ego about my scumgame and stuff? People trying to armchair psychology me or something damn

[nomnomnom]

If I have an ego to defend I just don't lay down and say I wasn't really trying that's like defeatist and loser attitude bro

[nomnomnom]

@Nom: I've seen a few posts from you saying or implying that your scum game is very good, so it's just a feeling I got.

lol so I'll say it again so you remember it:

if you scumread me this early in the game that probably means I'm not scum

[nomnomnom]

also wooper there's nothing I can say or do here to change anyone's mind, I can see they're in confbias mode so I'm just sitting here laughing at everyone just feeding their confirmation bias until I get lynched until they see I'm town it's a pretty funny feeling actually

Besides even if I get lynched the scums have made themselves quite obvious. Just be sure to look at the people that let this lynch go through easily without saying many words and you'll get one scum. The other is on my wagon. That's pretty much it.

Obviously we could skip the step where I get lynched and vote Aaron that works too.

[nomnomnom]

Xayah could easily be scum she has not said a single word today, gamestate wise this is probably the best step to take if none of me and aaron are scum so...

Maybe Xayah could be a lynch and if she flips scum then I was wrong about aaron?

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: Xayah
Let's solve this game bois

[nomnomnom]

Shit this game's starting to makes sense to me now. If I'm right then we kinda win on the spot.

[nomnomnom]

Actually yeah... Hm... Xayah and Flubs could be the scumteam? Although I remember Flubs being awk as all hells in the games I played with him previously so that could just be a misconception but like the way he's feeding meaningless stuff on my wagon is suspicious.

I changed my mind about Aaron I figured this out. Lets goooo

[nomnomnom]

Like if you think about it bussing is really okay in this game too especially according to the draft number.

YEAH ACTUALLY!!! Maybe the reason that I felt Billy's wagon was awkward is because it was a low post slot that was last in draft. This could easily be a bus setup if you think about it. So it makes a LOT of sense for Xayah to execute this. I really feel that the awkward feeling about Billy being scumread out of nowhere was warranted and I think the reason is because it was scum driven.

Is that enough gamesolve for ya

[nomnomnom]

Also as I said I'm busy as all hell IRL and I haven;t been towning it up this game, I've been laughing stuff out actually probably not for the better lol. But honestly I'm not 100% in a mafia mood if I need to admit it. It'll get better eventually but I'll take a break after this game. Just get the scum lynched ez.

[nomnomnom]

I changed my mind about Aaron I figured this out. Lets goooo

This further reinforces my tinfoil hat theory. I will not be unvoting.

see I told ya people are full confbias territory now

For real tough, Xayah's probably scum, the real question is who is scum with her in this config.

[nomnomnom]

Also I'm second last in the pick do you really think I get ultra lucky with a venge pick here? Not a good theory.

[nomnomnom]

I changed my mind about Aaron I figured this out. Lets goooo

This further reinforces my tinfoil hat theory. I will not be unvoting.

see I told ya people are full confbias territory now

For real tough, Xayah's probably scum, the real question is who is scum with her in this config.

You were previously thinking Aaron was scum, correct? All this has done is increased my probability that you two are aligned.

You know what confirmation bias is right? You were voting me because I was voting aaron and now that I change my read you say it's scummy, it's kind of a catch 22 and you kind of need to reset to see that you're just in confbias mode.

The true answer is that I just had a sudden realization about this game and that gamestate wise it makes a LOT of sense for Xayah to be scum and if she is then Aaron is pretty much confirmed town in my eyes.

[nomnomnom]

Too tired to check the VC rofl

Doesn't matter either way, Xayah's the lynch anyway. I'll leave you the time to come to the same conclusion as me, hopefully today.

[nomnomnom]

Actually yeah... Hm... Xayah and Flubs could be the scumteam? Although I remember Flubs being awk as all hells in the games I played with him previously so that could just be a misconception but like the way he's feeding meaningless stuff on my wagon is suspicious.

I changed my mind about Aaron I figured this out. Lets goooo

Agreeing with my reads is a bad tactic. I have never been an advocate for setting up entire scum teams pre team size -1.

Who said I was agreeing with YOUR reads?

My read is that there's a gamestate at hand where Xayah's doing nothing at all and this is what scums do when two townies are fighting to the death, this has nothing to do with your argument I believe which is essentially a day 1 thing.

[nomnomnom]

Too tired to check the VC rofl

Doesn't matter either way, Xayah's the lynch anyway. I'll leave you the time to come to the same conclusion as me, hopefully today.

You don't believe that your interaction with me just now matters in any way? And, you suggest a different lynch than the two leading wagons but don't profer any reason as to why, relying on us to "come to the same conclusion" based on....?

I am okay with lynching nomnomnom today.

I provided an explanation as to why just now. I heard reading was a good skill to have.

[nomnomnom]

That me and nom are both scum.

I am unsure as to why you would ask this because her recent posting would suggest that she wants you two to not be associated together as scum, thus strengthening my tinfoil hat theory.

Yeah that's the point. If nom is scum with Xayah here, then she's probably trying to play into your tinfoil theory. You're also not the only person to suggest that theory either.

If she is town here then Xayah is probably still scum honestly.

by that logic the best move for you is to vote Xayah here, just saying

[nomnomnom]

like if you think that Xayah is scum regardless of my flip you REALLY should be voting Xayah if you're that confident about it.

[nomnomnom]

Aaron you provided a logic in which you believe that whatever my flip is, then Xayah must be scum. You are essentially doing a bad move by not voting Xayah, again according to your own logic. Whatever it is that makes you vote me instead of someone you think is scum regardless of what happens with me, could be pride or whatever I don't know, you probably should put that aside and make the obviously better move, which is to lynch someone who you think is scum regardless of my alignment. Like this is objectively bad play what you're doing right now.

We also have plenty of time, which people have pointed out plenty. You want me to solve this game? I pointed out a solve with a good reason to go there, and I just showed you why your best vote in this situation is to vote Xayah. If you want to make a bad move keep your vote on me, but if you want to solve this game with me and put pride aside, then we can lynch Xayah together.

pedit: it's a good argument when the slot got extremely active day 1 when scumread by people, then hid behind a lot of walls to get Billy lynched which as I pointed out is a really easy bus considering the factors at hand. That's my whole rationale here, it's a whole package. Reread Xayah's day 1 and you'll see what I'm saying here. It's not an activity thing either by the way, it's just that it's optimal for scum to let townies fight to death when they're leading wagons. It's really easy to do, you don't risk anything and you gain time.

[nomnomnom]

Why not do it now? We're not on a one hour timer you know

[nomnomnom]

But if I think you and Xayah are the last two remaining scum, then does it matter what order you are lynched in? In the end, the result is the same, just in a different order.

Because by your own logic there's a chance I flip town here whereas you're saying Xayah is scum either way. That's literally the best vote right now in your world.

[nomnomnom]

hell yeah lets go

[nomnomnom]

I told you that if Xayah is scum there's a really good chance that Aaron is town

[nomnomnom]

Too much of a contest? lol

I'm town, good lujk