Open 769: Venrob's PYP X/Y (Town Wins)

[Sirfetchd]

Vote: Wooper

Changing to a Pokemon doesn't make you any less of a duck imposter.

[Sirfetchd]

Ok, what was your reasoning?

I'd rather not discuss it overtly at the moment, though I think it should be somewhat easily inferred. Happy to discuss a bit further down the road.

Ok, what was your reasoning?

I'd rather not discuss it overtly at the moment, though I think it should be somewhat easily inferred. Happy to discuss a bit further down the road.

Had a minute during my lunch break. God I hate posts like this. I was initially confused by Skitter's post that your RVS was scummy, but the explanation made alot of sense. You then shade Skitt for assuming a scummy motivation rather than asking your reasons. Skitt then asks your reasons and you do this vague appeal to some reasoning that you will provide down the road? What can you possibly gain by holding it back? You're not informed unless you're scum, someone's already talked about the draft numbers. There wasnt a n0 action. Wtf are you talking about here?

VOTE: Suji

Discussing it currently will impact my reasoning in a way that makes it invalid, which I would like to prevent. If you could be a little patient, I will explain (I would like to assume later today or tomorrow at the latest).

Also, I wasn't shading Skitter. My comment on her is completely factual, but I haven't assigned a motivation to it. She still hasn't answered my question about what other interesting topics there were to discuss, however.

I'm generally fine with this sort of thing. I was initially not cool with Suji bc of the immediately asking skitter for info on why his vote was scummy. But in hindsight skitter really is working against 'more info early day 1' which seems a little bit of busywork.

I'm not going to ask for claims however, I have issues with the fact that I got my first choice and was not 1st or 2nd. Going to need some serious reasoning from people on why their choices were town motivated from the two above me.

[Sirfetchd]

I think the governor debate is a little moot. A town players motivations for taking it would be egotistical in that they would have to be certain their reads are going to be great. JOAT seems straight up better but like I can get behind a town governor provided they are an egotistical dick as much as I'd hate it.

[Sirfetchd]

VOTE: Wooper

Scummy rvs vote

If you think its scummy why'd you keep your vote on your random target?

VOTE: Skitter

Solid point actually.

[Sirfetchd]

78 is pretty interesting

Not really, I have cases from similar draft styles and small-town games where scum specifically matched up to go low on list to distance. There's too many Strats to get bogged down in it as far as I can see.

This is a dangerous line day 1 because if we get strung down the wrong assumption it can fuck the entire game. I'd rather we all play normally and draw inferences day 3 or so after some flips.

[Sirfetchd]

Late to the party, but this is why I chose a number other than 1. I didn't even know what numbers were considered draft numbers.

Here's a theory:
Do you think that scums were more likely to understand that rule? They had a PT, they probably had a talk before choosing and they probably asked what the numbers meant since it's easier to ask that in a PT, rather than send a message to the mod, correct?

That means that people that make a nonsensical choice in terms of numbers have more chances to be town, while the people that have optimized numbers have more chances to be scum. That is unless scums are one step ahead, but yeah. That seems like a decent theory in my mind.

I honestly think people are lying bc it's the vogue thing to do at this point. No one wants to be seen as the person that knows what was happening bc of posts like this. Which I think is actually harmful bc it assumes town isn't full of liars which it always has and always will be.

Play the game normally, come back to this shit later.

[Sirfetchd]

Scum have intentionally collided in previous PYP games if memory serves me right.

exactly

[Sirfetchd]

Why is Something_Smart obvious scum (The fact that I have to ask that question means it likely isn't obvious, so let's just go with "Why is Something_Smart scum")?

Same. I'm actually liking SS atm.

[Sirfetchd]

Why is Something_Smart obvious scum (The fact that I have to ask that question means it likely isn't obvious, so let's just go with "Why is Something_Smart scum")?

Because S_S doesn't like scum and is honestly not the best at it. Sure, he's decent but he's no god. The thing S_S is gonna do here is instantly go into mech talk because mech talk is the most simple thing you can do to try and appear busy when really you're not. It's not helping and something I can see scum him going for right away. He's made one townread for 'a stupid reason' but that's it and doesn't go into more detail. Really, we should drop this and force people to play. Anyone regardless of your alignment or how bad you are can talk mech. Not everyone can be decent at mafia. Let's force people to play the game

If you want to vote busywork vote skitter.

[Sirfetchd]

Vote: Skitter

Still not happy with the Suji poke.

[Sirfetchd]

Not votings should get on someone. Doesn't help if 40% of the list isn't establishing wagons.

[Sirfetchd]

VOTE: Nomx3

I don’t like her setup spec at all, and then sheeping the SS vote after the setup spec nonsense got called out doesn’t feel very nice. I also didn’t like her response to Frost’s vote.

Fairly sure nom explicitly stated not really understanding the spec, so this seems hella contrived. :/

[Sirfetchd]

Glancing through the thread I don’t feel great about Skitter either. I think frost is Town atm. Flubber seems Town as well. Null on everyone else atm.

And this is a convenient read for right this moment.

Added to scum list.

[Sirfetchd]

The setup spec discussion is flying a bit over my head, I'll be honest

So you think this is a lie, and that they were just waiting for an opportunity to jump in?

Bc everything after this looks like trying to have some sort of voice given that people were refusing to drop setup discussion.

[Sirfetchd]

So you argue that the tow move is to just shutup and not contribute to discussion at all because you're in over your head?

Bc at the moment you look like you're going to punish both sides of action bc you think they were lying in a post that is likely one of the most truthful posts of the thread so far.

This looks like a pretty malicious scum move here.

Vote: Luca

[Sirfetchd]

Who has reason to lie about not understanding. Meanwhile there are heaps of reasons to lie about what roles you took or what you think about draft order. I feel like burden of proof here is on you to show how and why someone would lie about it.

I think if anything trying to be a part of the discussion to help get info on the table even though you aren't feeling it to be a very town move. If you accept that, as you seem to, then you can't really take an opinion after that as scummy bc they are trying to be helpful even if they are misguided bc maybe it helps in long run.

[Sirfetchd]

My main issue is that you are arguing that if nom is telling the truth then they should have shut up and lurked.

Which is the completely wrong thing to do. If nom really wanted a safe way in to the game by setup speccing, that's what would have happened, no?

[Sirfetchd]

Late to the party, but this is why I chose a number other than 1. I didn't even know what numbers were considered draft numbers.

Here's a theory:
Do you think that scums were more likely to understand that rule? They had a PT, they probably had a talk before choosing and they probably asked what the numbers meant since it's easier to ask that in a PT, rather than send a message to the mod, correct?

That means that people that make a nonsensical choice in terms of numbers have more chances to be town, while the people that have optimized numbers have more chances to be scum. That is unless scums are one step ahead, but yeah. That seems like a decent theory in my mind.

This is the post that pinged me. She’s suggesting scum more likely to understand the setup after having said herself that she doesn’t understand the setup. This would give her clear motive to lie about her lack of understanding, so the question remains: why are you trusting her so implicitly?

I am trusting her because I read this as super town. I have a fundamental issue with you setting up someone as doing a scummy act when doing the opposite would have been seen as more scummy.

[Sirfetchd]

My main issue is that you are arguing that if nom is telling the truth then they should have shut up and lurked.

Which is the completely wrong thing to do. If nom really wanted a safe way in to the game by setup speccing, that's what would have happened, no?

Once again, it wasn’t her initial comment that I found scummy. It was a comment that could have come from either alignment. She could have been lying, she could have been truthful, I don’t know. Not discussing the setup doesn’t mean she would have had to lurk unless she discussed it though, as I am myself proving.

I still don’t get why you trust her so deeply. Is she incapable of lying about such a thing as scum?

I am defending bc you have convinced me you are scum and I am calling you out for backing nom in to a corner.

[Sirfetchd]

wtf is a deepwolf?

[Sirfetchd]

Where's the wooper scooper?

Want an opinion on skitter from him.

[Sirfetchd]

Ok sick.

Also want to hear from rb bc either him or flub should have taken my first choice but they didn't.

[Sirfetchd]

Scum have intentionally collided in previous PYP games if memory serves me right.

really? i feel like it's ridiculously suboptimal as scum

Looking at the way the draft worked out I wouldn't call it too bad tbh. I don't want to really put 2c in yet but I would expect it more likely than unlikely.

[Sirfetchd]

But in hindsight skitter really is working against 'more info early day 1' which seems a little bit of busywork.

I'm not going to ask for claims however, I have issues with the fact that I got my first choice and was not 1st or 2nd. Going to need some serious reasoning from people on why their choices were town motivated from the two above me.

bolded: idk what you mean by this
second paragraph: rolefishing much, are you?

I mean stifling discussion is antitown.
No, but I want strong reasoning from them as to why I got my first choice being after them when it comes time to do claims.

[Sirfetchd]

Glancing through the thread I don’t feel great about Skitter either. I think frost is Town atm. Flubber seems Town as well. Null on everyone else atm.

And this is a convenient read for right this moment.

Added to scum list.

What's wrong with light reads atm?

It was entirely piggybacked.

[Sirfetchd]

Me mostly. However none of them were contentious at the time and added exactly nothing to the conversation.

[Sirfetchd]

Luca or skit

[Sirfetchd]

Yeah I'm not getting the SS scum vibes either.

[Sirfetchd]

Rb got solid reads, cool beans.

Don't think Woop's lack of activity is indicative of anything, want to know why you're specifically keen on kerset though, as it's basically been noise for me so far.

Note to self for later. Activity stats show highest posters have among the most little to say, might be worth coming back to because that seems weird. This day could use a wagon.

Vote: Aaron

They followed my mini 1v1 with a townread on me, potential soft buddy to avoid stirring me as an unknown quantity which is enough to jump on a wagon.

[Sirfetchd]

Can we please get some serious wagons going. I want tipping points and momentum shifts to analyse. The past few pages have been nothing but drivel.

I would appreciate everyone making votes, INCLUDING SS because fuck not voting until you have a concrete read.

[Sirfetchd]

I'll have something more substantial when there's actually something I can bite in to.

PEDIT: not funny, you're lucky I'm not one of those people that immediately equates anti-town as scum.

[Sirfetchd]

It may be because I'm an older gen player, but the crux of a lot of my scum reading is looking at wagon compositions and how people react to pressure and people's reluctance or eagerness to join specific wagons. It results in a lot of wealth of information later down the track.

Normally I'm fine to just let it happen naturally but there's no-one I can day 1 tunnel at the moment so my usual early game is out the window.

@nom

[Sirfetchd]

Fetchd, why have you stopped pushing me since I convinced you I’m scum?

Half the game is convincing others. Don't have any nails for a coffin at the moment.

[Sirfetchd]

But you do equate different as anti-town, and that's almost as bad.

Different and anti-town are not the same.

You are both. I've also played with you before and I am fairly sure we've butted heads then too. I would appreciate that if you are a member of the town, that you do what you can to help your other townsfolk. Because this is a team game and as much I would love to win the game myself, I kinda need help from everyone else, for my own reading sake.

Not helping your townmates is anti-town. Having a different approach is, well, different, but acceptable.

[Sirfetchd]

I mean, I've been playing here for close to four years. Do you not think that I'm doing what I am because I believe it helps the town?

The point I am trying to make is that, you work with the team you have. I, presumably, have you as a teammate. So we need to work together. I am asking for you to make some sort of vote or scum call to help me. You are welcome to ask me for things too. That is how this works.

It may help some towns, but it doesn't help THIS game's town.

[Sirfetchd]

Voting is not objectively pro-town. It may help people like you form STRONGER reads, but they are not necessarily BETTER reads. Given that my play heavily de-emphasizes finding scum early, I'd either be voting on bullshit gut feelings or picking names out of a hat of my nullreads. I don't really see how doing either of those helps you read anyone better.

It's not entirely about your reads either. Everyone revolves around everyone else. Your actions may help me get better reads on someone else based on their actions in response.

You obviously get the concept, so I don't see the harm in you taking part. You also aren't the only person not voting, I only called you out because you already said you wouldn't.

[Sirfetchd]

I am asking for you to make some sort of vote or scum call to help me.

Okay, that's reasonable. What method would you like me to use for determining who I vote?

Look at your null reads with votes on them. Pick one that has some amount of potential scum lean, and vote them.

[Sirfetchd]

Fetchd, thoughts on rb v Kerset?

Not really. Rb felt fine on entrance. Kerset has felt like mostly noise.

[Sirfetchd]

SIIIIIR-fetch'd!

[Sirfetchd]

Short answer: no

Long answer: I never really had a read on Aaron but it was null enough to do a bit of a vote, but true momentum moved since then, so I am actively looking for somewhere to shove my vote.

And yeah I'll pay that as true. But as I mentioned I'm in a bit of a not getting much from face value reading of the thread so that's why I am trying to fix it.

[Sirfetchd]

Still scum reading both of you. But willing to pursue other things. Real talk, I cbf doing the legwork to push for lynches atm, so I'd rather spur people to action than try and brute force day 1 on stuff that has mattered to me as opposed to others.

I really hate realists but you are refs top scum read and skitter is second. But that doesn't mean I need to force a Lynch on either of you today because 1. I could be wrong, and 2. There's another scum out there even if I'm right and I only have two reads I believe in, in any capacity.

[Sirfetchd]

A few things:

- I used to think I was really good at reading newbies and then I increased my sample size and it started to even out.
- It looks like there may be some confirmation bias happening on kerset. A newbie under early vocal pressure is going to act differently to one not under that sort of pressure. That doesn't mean Kerset is town but I'm not really buying the wagon just yet. The post skit pointed out read as very town to me too.

I will post later, was skimming on my way to work and wanted to get both those points out.

[Sirfetchd]

@Billy: rb came in and didn't take everything at face value, which are much more solid reads than otherwise. I don't have to agree with all the reads to think their reading is townie.

[Sirfetchd]

Another question.

it looks like he reread the game and forgot what his original position was, and made up a new one.

Why is this something scum are more likely to do than town?

Makes me feel like the thoughts arent real

This some bs right here.

Speaking from my own experience. I have so so many games where I end up coming up with reads on the spot bc I have forgotten the entire game.

[Sirfetchd]

Unvote, Vote: skitter

This is mostly historical as it's looking like a bit of a one or the other and I had/have a scum read on skit.

[Sirfetchd]

I will admit, I've been mostly skimming recently rather than properly reading. I am finding myself agreeing with a lot of things nom is saying, I think their questioning lines are strong. SS was fine as well somewhere in the back of my mind.

I also remember not having too many issues with kerset either after trying to pay more attention. That said I do have a niggle that there was a stubbornness to not address suspicion on themselves which was a gambit I used to try and fail a few times when I was new.

[Sirfetchd]

Unvote, Vote: skitter

This is mostly historical as it's looking like a bit of a one or the other and I had/have a scum read on skit.

I'd like a bit of explanation if you don't mind.

Uhhh above.

It's my favourite of the people with votes already on them. So I'm consolidating on to my favourite of the wagons of the day.

[Sirfetchd]

I will admit, I've been mostly skimming recently rather than properly reading. I am finding myself agreeing with a lot of things nom is saying, I think their questioning lines are strong. SS was fine as well somewhere in the back of my mind.

I also remember not having too many issues with kerset either after trying to pay more attention. That said I do have a niggle that there was a stubbornness to not address suspicion on themselves which was a gambit I used to try and fail a few times when I was new.

That doesn't answer why you think Skitter is scum.

Moreover if you think my lines of questioning are strong, why do you decide to go on Skitter and not consolidate a wagon that I fully support 100% and on top of that is more populated?

Because my town read of you has no bearing on my opinion of the accuracy of your reads.

I may be misremembering, but from memory skitter is measured and works with people, including her reads to consolidate or debunk her reads. Here she is posting like I would expect a completely different style of player to post.

[Sirfetchd]

I think it depends on your level of investment in the game, but i agree that scum are more likely to ‘forget’ their previous stances and opinions, which is why I suspected Fetchd when he suddenly went from being convinced I was scum to leaving me alone completely and voting someone else. That didn’t feel like a natural progression either.

I would say that I am much more likely to forget reads as town. But I have definitely done it a lot as both alignments, and also hidden it a lot as both alignments, basically arguing for lynches I don't believe in to protect myself from suspicion because I don't want to be lynched.

But I reckon most people on site would forget reads, it's just if you can be fucked going back to remember why you felt like that.
So for example, I don't have conviction in my SS read, I just remember having a town SS read. So why not?

I think Ducky can probably back me up on this one.

That all said you are being a bit more considered the past couple of pages, which is goodstuffs.

And a thought occurs, should we be reading in to that skit is soft pushing billy and still not voting there? I hate pre-flip connections, but I could see them as scum together, but I think that might just be my skit bias talking.

[Sirfetchd]

Salem is well known for being early adopters of Youtube.

[Sirfetchd]

Although back then it was call Ye OldeTube which is actually where the current name Youtube originated from.

[Sirfetchd]

How do we reconcile this with the fact that YouTube was supposed to be at first a dating website?

Burning hot single witches in your area.

[Sirfetchd]

To be fair, that sounds like modulation of play to avoid suspicion which isn't alignment indicative. You can argue the initial point but skitter is also guilty of that no?

But yeah not doing what you got accused of doing after you got accused of it is pretty standard play from any slot regardless of alignment.

[Sirfetchd]

@skitt: Yeah we've played a few times. But it's a HUGE SECRET who I am.

[Sirfetchd]

What the duck!

I said it was a secret alt.

[Sirfetchd]

Someone give me the cliff notes on billy scum case.

[Sirfetchd]

Duck will get paranoid later as town. He can stay.

[Sirfetchd]

never line up multiple lynches. Always bad juju

[Sirfetchd]

cmon duck really. Skit is A-Grade garbage posting.

[Sirfetchd]

The people who have me in there scum poe have not explained besides saying 'off' or nothing at all. The reason why? Because my posts aren't scummy and you have nothing to go off of. You dislike the fact I'm lurking. If I was scum you would probably be townreading me considering my winrate at the moment. The reason I've never been lynched on day 1 is either:
A) Oh Maria/Xayah is getting voted day 1 so she's probably town. When I'm town
B) I get enough townreads as scum that people don't vote me.
But let's ignore that meta for just a minute.

If I'm scum who is it with?

What is my motivation for just jumping in and voting randomly like that as scum? Would scum me do the stuff I've done this game? You all know I'm a good scum player so I must have some motivations for my actions right?

This is really bad and based on fallacy. Pre-flip associative are a terrible thing to talk about, ESPECIALLY on day 1. I was ambivalent to you, but this post is really something else. The Self meta is like a little cherry on top.

xayah is in my lynch pool.

[Sirfetchd]

‘If I’m scum who is it with?’

Btw that’s a really stupid question for D1.

Luca has improved all day honestly in retrospect. I'm sorry man.

[Sirfetchd]

We have a lot more content and reasons to get either one of Kerset and/or Aaron lynched. Xayah lacks in content. If she's scum then she'll have to be a day 2+ lynch imo. I did say her vote felt off but it's just a bad feeling in my chest nothing more. This wagon is stupid and formed way too quickly on a player that doesn't do much. Notice how other wagons took much more time to do so.

pedit: Luca look at what Aaron just did and you'll see why he's scum. He's saying that he's fine with either a Kerset or Xayah lynch yet doesn't push Kerset with 4 votes on him at the time, in favor of Xayah which is essentially a vanity vote considering no one was voting her prior. That makes absolutely no sense from what he posted. That's why he's scum.

As much as I agree with you. Don't answer for me. I was going to bring this up myself but if you answer for me I can't say that without people going 'well you just copied that persons reasoning' answering questions for other people is anti town.

Just fucking do it. Agreeing with shit hasn't been a tell for like 5 years.

[Sirfetchd]

Someone give me the cliff notes on billy scum case.

889 - 890

Putting this in my iso, I got better shit now.

[Sirfetchd]

Xayah.

I’m not so sure it’s a town question though - it reminds me of how I used to play as scum. If you can’t logically prove that I’m scum then you have no right to vote me.

Maria doesn't focus on logic like that especially as scum. I don't think she's a good D1 lynch anyway and I don't think anything's wrong with that question for sure.

This is a really bad stance. Everyone should be lynchable every day because otherwise everyone just argues to be left alive and we get nowhere.

[Sirfetchd]

In isolation there’s nothing wrong with it, but when used as a defence I think it is sketchy and a bit disingenuous

I mean, it was dumb, but it wasn't her only defense-- she accompanied it with three other reasonable questions.

You must not have read the same post I did then mate.

[Sirfetchd]

Unvote, Vote: Xayah

[Sirfetchd]

We have a lot more content and reasons to get either one of Kerset and/or Aaron lynched. Xayah lacks in content. If she's scum then she'll have to be a day 2+ lynch imo. I did say her vote felt off but it's just a bad feeling in my chest nothing more. This wagon is stupid and formed way too quickly on a player that doesn't do much. Notice how other wagons took much more time to do so.

pedit: Luca look at what Aaron just did and you'll see why he's scum. He's saying that he's fine with either a Kerset or Xayah lynch yet doesn't push Kerset with 4 votes on him at the time, in favor of Xayah which is essentially a vanity vote considering no one was voting her prior. That makes absolutely no sense from what he posted. That's why he's scum.

As much as I agree with you. Don't answer for me. I was going to bring this up myself but if you answer for me I can't say that without people going 'well you just copied that persons reasoning' answering questions for other people is anti town.

Just fucking do it. Agreeing with shit hasn't been a tell for like 5 years.

I did.

No you complained someone blocked you from town points which is scummy bs.

[Sirfetchd]

The fact that the second lowest post count player came out of the woodwork to hard defend on two pretty vain votes with terrible and frankly scummy reasoning should be telling enough.

[Sirfetchd]

Also disregarding a wagon bc someone who might be scum in your book is on it is egotistical.

[Sirfetchd]

This is a really bad stance. Everyone should be lynchable every day because otherwise everyone just argues to be left alive and we get nowhere.

I mean objectively some people are harder to read on the early days. It's not like everyone has equal claim to be exempted the way I just said Xayah should be.

inb4 sirfetchd says, "this is also a bad stance"

It is. I've lynched day 1 a lot players who are without question better players than the both of you and had them flip scum. And all of them argued this point. It's not a scum tell, but it is a dick move.

[Sirfetchd]

what's your preferred lynch today Luca?

kerset?

I could go for Kerset, Billy or Suji. I’m feeling inclined to give Xayah another day.

Don't feel obligated to respect egos.

[Sirfetchd]

UNVOTE:

I'm getting tunneled.

I blame Sirfetchd.

bruh

Also yeah, the point isn't that Xayah is posting, the point is that the posting is p much entirely self preservation and defending. She doesn't have a game changing PR, she's too far down. She's not better than half the playlist to justify being left alive for the sake of it.

So logic would dictate that she's probs scum. The fact that she is purposefully missing the point on her own case that I am certain she is able to parse and is instead choosing not to, just makes me more certain of the read.

[Sirfetchd]

that's not even the towny bit rub :/

Proxying vote to dirty scum was the towny bit.

[Sirfetchd]

I think it's NAI.

As I mentioned previously, I can cite early scum games of mine where I stubbornly went, if I never defend myself it will be wife and they would have to think I'm being town with an objective mentality.

Never worked for me, but I did it.

I think anything is realistically in the scope of a newbie under pressure.

[Sirfetchd]

Also, if you want to Lynch a lurker and you want to give PM time to get in to the game, Xayah is second lowest poster, js.

[Sirfetchd]

I'd also probably argue that backwards - what COULD make sense as a towntell is usually a towntell !

pedit: PMys is also Quite wolfy

Dumb lynch tho. Get nothing from it. I also think SS is probs town, so unless this pushing is to spur some action I am against it.

Also if you got neighbouriser and don't target me, I will riot.

[Sirfetchd]

I'd also probably argue that backwards - what COULD make sense as a towntell is usually a towntell !

You probably misparsed it which in retrospect doesn't surprise me. Wording is hard.

Defending yourself by saying "these are the things I did, and this is why it's possible they're town motivated" is a scumtell

.

Back this up with actions pls.

[Sirfetchd]

WHERE THE FUCK IS MARIA'S HOUSE I'M ON MY WAY

Not in Adelaide.

[Sirfetchd]

there's like a whole reason I'm not voting SS rn and it's not regret from failing to engage with him about a certain underrated scumread in a certain recently finished game or anything like that hahaha what nooooo haha

pedit: no one with chocolate is in adelaide smh
are you aussie sirf?

Mate Haigh's is based out of Adelaide.

And you already know I'm Elli. Stop being coy.

[Sirfetchd]

Hey SS, do you have any distinctions in your reads? Like say the day is ending and we need a Lynch and the two main wagons are Kerset and Xayah, where would you be going?

If the wagons were Billy and Skitter would you go for Billy even though he is less likely to be a scum pr?

O yeah, Luca your opinions on lynching high on the list is wrong.

[Sirfetchd]

Back this up with actions pls.

You mean you want me to link where Billy did this?

I want you to notice that half the playlist has done this, and you are being blinded by your tunnel in to selectively scum reading people. I think it's probs Conf-bias you just aren't noticing.

[Sirfetchd]

Ok, "this person is not usually like this as scum" isn't going to fly with either of us ducks. Just to let you know.

So give me some reason why the things rb and I have said about xayah are town motivated if you want any of us three to get off her.

I do agree with you on skitter tho. So maybe we can compromise on that. But I am very heavily convinced xayah is a scumbutt.

[Sirfetchd]

you are being blinded by your tunnel in to selectively scum reading people. I think it's probs Conf-bias you just aren't noticing.

Yeah of course it is, that's why I'm annoyed you guys keep asking me to explain.

Fair, see above. Lets have a heart to heart. I'm in your null pool and you are in my town pool. Lets have some healthy discussion my friend.

[Sirfetchd]

Maybe later tho, I gotta actually do work today and you have kids to give candy to.

[Sirfetchd]

What is with this idea you gotta Lynch in the low part of the draft. I feel the opposite.

[Sirfetchd]

Actually it was vanity at the time. So I reckon it checks out.

[Sirfetchd]

haha I was about to make a post about who people are inclined to vote on out of Xayah, Aaron, or Kerset bc we at the 48 hour mark. That said I can probably be around at deadline, so if you drum up support quickly power to you.

So, tell me about Billy bc I stopped reading their posts when they got longer than a single paragraph.

[Sirfetchd]

Are you seeing mentality beyond meta? Bc meta changes a lot in the space of six months when you are new. Which is why I am tentative on any meta based argument.

I get where you're coming from, but me looking at that explanation sees someone just not being 'in' to this game and trying to get in with something attainable for their style. Like contrasted to Xayah who has been actively self defending when they were initially under minimal pressure reeks scum if anyone was doing it.

To give an example on the other side Ducky is frequently cheeky as scum or at least was when I was around, but I'm happy to let it go bc it's conceivably town and I agree with stances.

[Sirfetchd]

You do raise a decent point on the skitter thing tho. :/

[Sirfetchd]

My main reason for not giving credence is that I know from experience that I am very difficult to read for people who know me because I can be playing multiple games concurrently and have completely different game styles in them even though they are at the same time just based on how in to the games I feel.

This is also regularly exhibited when town meta is shown as scum bc they are enjoying or hating the game, or scum meta is should as town for the same sorts of reasons.

But yeah I can respect that there's some awkward stuff in there. Not going to move from Xayah to a vanity wagon though.

[Sirfetchd]

Rb, Xayah’s reads are pretty decent, are they not?

I think it explains her position of defending herself as opposed to game-solving, as she’s happy with the Frost wagon. It’s not optimal town play, but I don’t get the feeling she’s scum atm.

I think billy is the best lynch today. I’d be lying to myself if i voted anyone else

.

this is how I feel about Xayah

[Sirfetchd]

Rb, Xayah’s reads are pretty decent, are they not?

I think it explains her position of defending herself as opposed to game-solving, as she’s happy with the Frost wagon. It’s not optimal town play, but I don’t get the feeling she’s scum atm.

I think billy is the best lynch today. I’d be lying to myself if i voted anyone else

.

this is how I feel about Xayah

what's your 2nd best lynch in the game rn?

Skitter

[Sirfetchd]

If you want the scum leans, we all have Xayah in our top 2/3 The fact that it hit a wall at 5 lends the idea that it either hard scum pushed which not even xayah believes from the read list, or it's on scum.

[Sirfetchd]

Or that it'snot suiting a scum agenda, which we can deal with if shit hits the fan I guess. But I really really doubt it will.

[Sirfetchd]

i'm okay with this

opinion on Billy sirfetchd?

i got townvibes from his opening posts =|

Honestly ambivalent. I had thoughts on it a little with Luca last page.

[Sirfetchd]

If you're going to use experience as a viewpoint why does scum me do the things I do right now when I'm one of the better scum players?

This is bs and you know it.

[Sirfetchd]

If you're going to use experience as a viewpoint why does scum me do the things I do right now when I'm one of the better scum players?

This is bs and you know it.

If it's so bs why don't you explain why it's bs instead of just using useless buzzwords

Because it's wifomy.

Like, you assume an answer of i can't be scum bc my scum reputation is too big. (Which is its own fallacy)

The correct answer however, is because you think you can get away with it. Bc you rate your abilities.

[Sirfetchd]

I am really against letting Xayah get away with the brute force defence for the exact reason that we are likely to be in this sort of position. The wagon composition also feels like it was accurate, hence the increased difficulty of pushing it through.

Billy's wagon composition on the other hand feels very convenient making it seem like the preferred misslynch of the day. That said, I will compromise on it if I have to. But I really would rather not.

[Sirfetchd]

Actually looking at the wagons, Xayah is at pseudo six votes (assuming Wooper/Luca/Billy can all move there) while Billy is on pseudo 5 (assuming I move there). Nah make it six I think I remember noms being pro xayah. So even wagons.

:/

Ok. Everyone NOT on Xayah or Billy get on either Xayah or Billy.

[Sirfetchd]

Separated because the submit button disapears for me if the post becomes too long on mobile

Wooper - pm is being awful, i agree, but i dont think that's the best vote with the amount of time left. We ought to be consolidating

Luca is being obvtown

Sirfetched - why are you scumreading me, exactly?

Ok this has been a Jumble Of Thoughts (tm) and is roughly what i'm thinking now. I hope to be around tomorrow night before deadline

Your stream of consciousness is regularly inaccurate or at least I think it's inaccurate, and you have said extremely little with the highest post count which says to me that you are saying very little.

[Sirfetchd]

Hey all. My house flooded at the end of yesterday. Still sorting stuff out but I'm mostly fine. Expect me to take a backseat for a little though, my game time will be reduced to posting while wagging off work at the moment.

I don't think Xayah is off the hook, a Xayah/Billy scum team still tries to direct off. And it was skitter that swung momentum, not anyone else so it's kind of out of control. Which sucks for me because it means I was off on my skit read.

Can someone talk me though the nom suspicion bc I don't see the Billy wagon presenting much info other than skit town?

[Sirfetchd]

that was poorly worded. Xayah is stronger than Billy, so I don't see any reason to give a relational town read.

[Sirfetchd]

Yikes, hope everything's ok.

My courtyard roof door wasn't sealed off and this was the first major rain since I moved in. So it was only my study. But assessing damage to the roof and if any of the stuff in the room needs replacing including my partner's camera gear.

So not like a whole house flood or anything like that, more of an inconvenience. Still, means I am stressed and busy.

[Sirfetchd]

SUPER TOWN TIMES 100

: Wooper
Town: Skitter, SS,
Lean Town: Suji, Xayah, Frost, Kerset

Null-Town: Wooper

Null-scum: Flubs
Scum-lean: PM, Fetchd
Scum: Nom

That’s roughly where I’m at right now

made one small correction
otherwises i like these reads like, quite a bit

bruh,

Also I have a soft inno on you. But also have a batshit theory that is really scary where you go back to NAI.

Guess who fucked up. fml.

[Sirfetchd]

What part of soft inno doesn't make sense to you nom?

[Sirfetchd]

Yo duck. I have meta from a marketplace game showing scum riding picking the same number to endgame. I think everything is NAI unless there is single person meta reasons to read in to it.

I did mention a soft draft PICKs reason to suss one of rb or flubb, and rb flipping cop puts that solely on flubb. That said, I remember not reading Billy, so I think it's a little bit NAI on the didn't mention X. Flubb can be scum for other reasons like the momentum vote and draft picks. I know I tend to ignore half the list in any game over 11-12 players until I settle in.

I have a large amount of town reads which makes me think that probably a better route to go down. People I have not paid attention to that are alive are Flubb, Aaron, Kerset, and Suji. So if I can be fucked, I'll read them maybe.

[Sirfetchd]

I am quite surprised that fetch got so many scum leans. Is it because he was on xaya wagon up to the end?

I don't have many scum leans at all.

That's my issue right now.

[Sirfetchd]

Oh you meant people scum leaning me. Fair, and maybe. Like I am probably a fairly 'safe' Lynch in that I was off wagon and didn't talk to Billy much if at all.

I think ducky also rates my scum game so I'm not sure I can town tell. Take it up with them.

I am going to say that I think that your attempts at solving are town leaning mindset. Empty questions are still questions, which is positive. I also don't really like Aaron's angles on nom.

[Sirfetchd]

Vote: Flubb

Swing some weight.

[Sirfetchd]

I want to see more of it because it is a surface level read, so no pushing you until I have dece evidence to back up the read. It's just the framing and interpretation of responses. It's similar to something I do when I want to force my lynches from a back seat as both alignments. When I see it in others I think have less range than me, I read it as scummy.

[Sirfetchd]

Ok bosses have left for the week. Someone chat with me. I got three hours I can talk game.

[Sirfetchd]

I'm not seeing is SS.

And ya those are dece quotes Luca.

I want to know why rb got cop and flub didn't take the slot. Because he also didn't take the next best imo.

[Sirfetchd]

Doesn't mean he isn't scum but I don't see it as a scum claim.

[Sirfetchd]

I think it is a bit of a spiral to look at pre flip relational not including flipped scum.

[Sirfetchd]

I don't see why anyone wouldn't take UB over role cop.

[Sirfetchd]

I don't see why anyone wouldn't take UB over role cop.

Scum would probably take rolecop.

Even then I doubt it, simply because UB is such good town utility when the strong PR slots are basically known to scum.

role cop only really has utility in the hands of town in miss claim. I think UB is miles ahead for both alignments.

[Sirfetchd]

Anyway point for the moment is Flubb is a go.

[Sirfetchd]

Kinda feeling like it's the vogue thing to have me at null scum at the moment.

I'm about to go to bed, but if people want a chat, lets make it happen. Because I have never seen a more unanimous "maybe this guy is scum but none of us are actually feeling it but maybe?" bc that's just mafia y'all.

Also I need to sort everyone too. So hold me to 1 on 1 chats.

[Sirfetchd]

I still reckon the Billy flip means nothing for reads on Xayah fwiw.
@suji: same diff.

[Sirfetchd]

This post is mostly ignorable. It's where I go I'm too lazy to make a word doc or actually write down my thoughts before I forget them and more if this game slips away from my brain.

Ok imma do a thought dump bc I am getting no where with motivation to read people and I pump time in. May just be the weekend or housework or whatever but eh, need an injection of something.

Billy flipped scum, cool, relationals tell us jack shit because of the way the wagoned formed and went through. Tipping point vote was skitter, Xayah was the compromise until then. So skit is like 80% town as much as I hate this posting style from her.

Everyone else is still up in the air because of virtue of weak slot compromise lynch. I tinfoil hat theory see Billy, Xayah, skit scum team ngl. Because if that is the scum team that is some serious do what we can with shithouse cards.

Ok back on the actual shit we have. Still scumread Xayah. Have no read on half the playerlist which is eh. Townreads on a few slots so going to guess I personally need a lynch in my unsorted that revolves around someone I have read up on. I think given the successful day 1 lynch we can afford a policy-ish lynch or at least to promote certain play from some slots. Most of what makes me keen on flubb push. Would not object to pressure on PM/Suji/Kerset slots.

I think my main issue with the nom wagon is that it doesn't make a heap of sense for today. Like sure, I get there's a solid line where nom is relationally scummy, but it feels like if it right sweet that is awesome, but if it is wrong, there is a very real issue with stagnation and zero game solve comes out of it. I think there's no concrete relationals outside skit, so that means you gotta make some.

So yeah, I think we hit today like a day 1, but with a pseudo IC, and a townsided setup.

Alright, talked myself around. Happy with where I am, happy to wagon anyone on my I haven't read list.

tl;dr

nom is day 3/4 lynch, swing around votes and get multiple wagons going throughout the day bc I said so bc I am lazy.

[Sirfetchd]

I used this to procrastinate. Which I don't usually do when not at work.

Back in the day I would spend every waking minute on the site.

Can see that being an actual slip from nom.

[Sirfetchd]

Unvote, Vote: Aaron

[Sirfetchd]

Stand by nom is a bad Lynch.

[Sirfetchd]

Like I think you get jack shit from the flip regardless of alignment. Maybe that changes with this fight over the two major wagons but for the moment, it looks like a really great Lynch for a subsequent day.

Also ducky. If I was scum with nom, I would have hard pushed it once people came up with the weak relationals and not let go.

[Sirfetchd]

My entire argument is that I see it as super low info Lynch. And stubbornness is sometimes scummy. Xayah flailed much much harder than nom is.

[Sirfetchd]

I'd like Sirfetchd to answer this

What do you learn from my flip?

You had a much more tumultuous day 1. Like given the fact that I have one real scum read who isn't getting lynched bc scum killed the other person who believed in it and they were the competing wagon to a scum flip (which I have explained already why that gives zero points either way on alignment) means I have to go for what feels like the best Lynch of wagons I don't believe in.

There hasn't really been compelling reasons either way. The only wagon today with any bite to it has been flub.

[Sirfetchd]

Like I don't have qualms with lynching nom by end of day, but there's a fair amount of day left and at the moment I think Aaron gives more in retrospect.

This is already changing with the vehemence of opposition to Aaron's wagon and the lack of vehemence to nom's. Which is reading more and more like it's either WKing or protecting a buddy, all of which is just more reasoning as to why Aaron is better than nom today.

Also @ducky, I am beginning to think you've forgotten my main.

[Sirfetchd]

Considering you were in a good 80-90% of my games before I retired for a bit I would say probably best out of anyone who hasn't deep dived me.

[Sirfetchd]

I had to reveal my main bc I was asking questions about team mafia and the mods were like who are you.

I'm not saying flub is a good wagon, I'm saying its the only one where reasoning has made me actually believe it's going to flip red thanks to Luca. But like, we have lynches in the bag to spend so w/e. I know Xayah and flub aren't happening.

Well I felt Xayah wagon was town pushed too, the xayah wagon is fairly similar to the nom one in terms of core vocal people. But that fell off the face of the earth, so that means I have to rethink on motivations. I think it's entirely possible one of Luca or you is playing the rest of the vocal people right now. Like the fact that Billy was, in hindsight, a really bussable target for lynching means the motivation shift post skitter is entirely suspect despite being a red flip.

[Sirfetchd]

This conversation





My head

Take a guess at me, we've played a few games. I'll give you a hint. I am fairly sure I've hated playing with you in the past.

[Sirfetchd]

I'm seeing mentally checked out rather than defensive. It's defeatist yeah, but is that scummy?

idk maybe, Like I can see it esp with a scum flipped already.

My understanding of the mentality is that it is a two horse race at this point, and as one of the horses it's out of their control so it's either nom gets lynched or Aaron does. Not everyone has a predilection to play harder int hat situation.

My choice here is purely imaginary maths net gain calculations.

[Sirfetchd]

I have been clear on my reads and you and xayah aren't on the table. What you expecting me to do? Make the entire thing more convoluted by not working with other people? Bc that's much worse.


PEDIT
I would say there's a subset of useful roles and they should all be gone before Aaron gets a chance at any, so I don't see the difference.

[Sirfetchd]

Like given the fact that I have one real scum read who isn't getting lynched bc scum killed the other person who believed in it and they were the competing wagon to a scum flip (which I have explained already why that gives zero points either way on alignment) means I have to go for what feels like the best Lynch of wagons I don't believe in.

Can u say this again but like really slowly?

This is already changing with the vehemence of opposition to Aaron's wagon

Where do you see this happening

Sirfetched i'm confused why ur so vehemently opposed to nom

1. Xayah and flub aren't getting lycnhed today, ergo, I can't Lynch a scum read today.
2. nom wagon is people very eager to Lynch nom and only nom. Aaron wagon is people that are mostly k, but what about this guy that is going to be more dangerous. The aggression on lynching nom is much larger than the aggression for the Lynch on Aaron.
3. I'm not? I have said I will move my vote if required at end of day and quote two is my explanation of why I am warming to the idea of voting nom. Dumb questions like this are why I was scum reading you for the entirety of day 1.

[Sirfetchd]

Actually yeah... Hm... Xayah and Flubs could be the scumteam? Although I remember Flubs being awk as all hells in the games I played with him previously so that could just be a misconception but like the way he's feeding meaningless stuff on my wagon is suspicious.

I changed my mind about Aaron I figured this out. Lets goooo

Agreeing with my reads is a bad tactic. I have never been an advocate for setting up entire scum teams pre team size -1.

[Sirfetchd]

I have a soft guilty related to the above. Want everyone to check in though.

[Sirfetchd]

No, doesn't involve you just your theories.

[Sirfetchd]

Do whatever. I'll fill in more when I can work out what everyone's positioning is today.

Do you stand by not wanting a masjclaim SS?

[Sirfetchd]

I see it.

I've been hella off this game tho. Xayah was so scummy day 1.

[Sirfetchd]

I'd like to throw my support behind the Xayah probs wasn't the scum kill wagon. There's like potentially four kills in action last night.

[Sirfetchd]

For the argument that nom was gonna provide info, we've got a fat lot of no-one slinging punches.

[Sirfetchd]

tbh, that makes sense. I am both happy and sad you trusted my reading.

[Sirfetchd]

I think I might claim. Bc I think I need help parsing what side of the fence I should be on.

PEDIT: Exactly.

[Sirfetchd]

I don't need to claim. I can probably parse everything myself but it will depend a lot on today's phase.

I think if we get stuck we can mass claim.

Talk me through nom flip stuffs.

[Sirfetchd]

haha same

[Sirfetchd]

The issue with UB is that scum are forced in to taking the useless cop bc it's a scum claim otherwise bc role cop is a trash role in this setup when you have a draft order and can generally guess who has what.

[Sirfetchd]

I don't wanna be the guy who uses self-meta as a defense, but in that game I was much more reserved and hesitant to push anyone so make of it what you will.

One game does not a meta make.

[Sirfetchd]

I think role cop is next to useless, scum know where the strong power is concentrated and town goes cool I can be maybe useful in a masjclaim if someone is claiming the opposite role which seems rough anyway and likely to be discovered anyway.

So yeah I don't think anyone doesn't pick UB. And I think anyone, scum included is mad to not pick up cop.

[Sirfetchd]

Lemme go get a link.

[Sirfetchd]

What has that slot picked in previous runs of this setup.

Also I can't find the game but I remember a game where scum deliberately doubled, ended up tripling and were low on pick order for a similar type of setup. They rode this to end game. I think my point is that I see very little in the way of things that can be gained from the list order.

[Sirfetchd]

I have a pocket uneasiness that SS is against massclaim completely.

Like by his logic we could not have a massclaim until 5 player Lylo

I remember hating ss as a player but I may me misremembering so idk if he is capable of coaching tho.

[Sirfetchd]

He probably took his time to ask wooper in PT how to respond.

That's a hot take wow.

[Sirfetchd]

I feel like Aaron has done nothing to justify clearing.

[Sirfetchd]

I dunno why kerset wanted your reasoning for massclaim. Tbh I am mildly scumreading people opposing it for no reason.

[Sirfetchd]

That's in response to your options for why you aren't feeling supported.

You vca heavily indicated Aaron is likely scum.

[Sirfetchd]

Pro it. I was hoping people would all get in thread before it came up tho.

[Sirfetchd]

I agree with kerset being off. And yeah I am getting heavier and heavier towards scum Aaron.

[Sirfetchd]

Haha, dw it's fine. Pressure is on scum now in time pressure.

I think we are at point of no return on mass claim tho.

[Sirfetchd]

I can see it as a weird distance reverse chainsaw. But that's tinfoil hat territory.

[Sirfetchd]

I really really gotta try and cool it. My kpis are gonna be in tatters and we got a massclain likely happening tomorrow.

[Sirfetchd]

So what you're saying is Kerset should be scum fmpov?

Two ducks and a Hollow Knight

I'm def not clear by any means.

No and second post is ew.

[Sirfetchd]

Ok, I'll step back.

[Sirfetchd]

Crumbing is only useful if you can signal to specific players otherwise just say it explicitly.

[Sirfetchd]

Not certain I am parsing it right but I think the reasons Kerset is scum reading Aaron and town reading me are the same kinda.

His read on me is - Sirf is wrong but townie wrong
Aaron - Pretending to be clueless for deviousness.

[Sirfetchd]

Crumbing is only useful if you can signal to specific players otherwise just say it explicitly.

The point of crumbing isn't to signal, it's to let people figure out what you did after you're dead.

Yeah but if everyone knows before you die bc you crumbed then what's the point. You gotta signal to specific people.

[Sirfetchd]

It's a dece No.2 I guess? Especially if scum used al their their picks for info gathering. Depends if aaronscum is next to his partner. Can see it in that situation.

[Sirfetchd]

nvm xayah was next to them ignore that.

[Sirfetchd]

It's a dece No.2 I guess? Especially if scum used al their their picks for info gathering. Depends if aaronscum is next to his partner. Can see it in that situation.

if it's a coached fakeclaim i'm a touch surprised he didn't just say he did cop>unibackup tbh

I didn't put cop bc there was zero chance of it still being up even though I was 3rd. I was also right. I get why there's no cop in the claim.

[Sirfetchd]

I want a massclaim asap bc it's p much definitely happening today and I don't want scum to have excess time.

Ducky has forced it by talking about it too much. Wasted time now is time in the hands of scum.

[Sirfetchd]

Still don't see why you want me to claim second. Like I said, it's not as if I could lie about my role group.

By this logic why does anyone claim first, it's not like they can lie about their role group.

And this stance coupled with being against a masjclaim when you are headed for apathy yourself screams that it's your interest to have a stagnated game state.

P much that is why you need to claim early friendo

[Sirfetchd]

By this logic why does anyone claim first, it's not like they can lie about their role group.

Because scummy people should claim before towny people and also it's a lot easier for low-down players to claim vanilla when they aren't.

1. Congrats you can claim.
2. That is why we mass claim. That's like the entire point. To catch those people.

[Sirfetchd]

Flubb, I've never known you to be an obv town kind of player. Especially with your level of activity in this game. Like ok fine, I can accept not taking cop bc you might be targeted mechanically if town, but there's also JK, JOAT, Doc that are high power slots that can be devestating in the hands of scum.

I feel you are missing a lot of the paranoia I would expect. If the slots behind you are all scum then you have handed them power while they are probably able to work out with some amount of decency and the entire thing fails. If you don't obv town it fails.

Right now it looks like you have picked a role that can ensure multiple town deaths.

[Sirfetchd]

consider my vote to be on flub

[Sirfetchd]

No we're going bottom up with flub and ss going first.

[Sirfetchd]

I can tell you that after I claim we're probs powerlynching flub unless there's conflicting claims.

[Sirfetchd]

Go for it.

[Sirfetchd]

Like at this point I all but claimed my role.

[Sirfetchd]

Have you crumbed both slots you went for, their order, and the role you eventually took?

Like I haven't. But I also got my first pick and the second is very 'me'.

[Sirfetchd]

Also in terms of something I can refer back to. I think Ducky is mechanically cleared and flub is close to but not quite Conf scum.

[Sirfetchd]

Look at this point my care is a little low.

But Ducky wants it and I have reasons to believe Duck is Conf town. So just go and make this easier.

[Sirfetchd]

I think Flubs has to be the lynch today now, he’s obviously never being NK.

Also, could it be possible rb targeted Flubs N1 and scum’s kill was blocked again?

Uhhh maybe. Flub is still scum for lying in a mass claim in that situation.

[Sirfetchd]

I could see it.

We can get our tinfoil hats out once we are done with mass claim.

[Sirfetchd]

Nah hold it up.

Want ducky's view on this so far.

[Sirfetchd]

fmpov mass claim makes sense bc in this setup the concentration of power is known especially with a night that has vig claiming the kill and a dead scum.

[Sirfetchd]

who's the boss around here? huh??? wooper or farfetch'd at a renaissance fair????
i'm the big duck this phase buddy

SS was being close-chested. Didn't want us going up the list without you being like fine ss can be skipped. Either I'm in charge when you're gone or we have UTTER CHAOS.

Do you really want UTTER CHAOS mid mass claim?

[Sirfetchd]

Spicy stuff.

@duck, I would take commuter as well. I have similar reasoning for my choice which we will come to.
@kerset: Where's the claim of use of ability or not?
@skit/Luca: does this fit with skit being semi day cleared for billy interactions? It seems weird, but I know I say I read people a certain way as both alignments and lie out my arse at the same time to avoid questions, so eh idk. I still think that post mass claim we all Lynch Flub anyway so we can scrutinise third scum tomorrow.

[Sirfetchd]

I would have liked resistance to me and ducky picking Aaron apart earlier today tho.

[Sirfetchd]

I feel like despite skit being 'wrong'. I don't see a reason for her to lie here. Keen for why there's no result seeing as SS isn't commuter. That bit is weird bc I didn't target skit.

[Sirfetchd]

I really want to know why Kerset is holding information despite already being called out for it. HMMMMMM

[Sirfetchd]

If flub is town which is really really small chance, skit makes sense then.

Skit Aaron makes sense, but again only if flub flips town which is unlikely.

[Sirfetchd]

I'm guessing SS's claim pertains to the no-result from skit.

I am just gonna go. I am JK, I jailed Ducky n1 and FLUNUGGETS n2.

I picked perfvig for slot 2. Wanted to hero the game. Took jk bc doc feels strong in this setup. JK'd woops bc was unsure but also he is kill target before he was 'in' the game. jk'd flub n2 because I was worried he is scum pr like n2 vig bc he wasn't cop or jk.

So we Lynch flub bc I am like 85% sure I blocked the kill and his claim is kill enabling AF.

Vote: Flub

SS can claim whenevs.

[Sirfetchd]

Regardless, we have no kill and a sweet block on flub.

[Sirfetchd]

Unless someone wants to argue Xayah was scum kill ofc. but I think we all decided that was just duck's vig and not a double shot.

[Sirfetchd]

Ok yeah skit is probs scum here.

But you know who is even equally scummy? flub. We Lynch one, then the other and we win the game.

Game is over and we win, move it.

[Sirfetchd]

Realised that sounds blood thirsty. I got games on other accounts, sick of swapping. lesgo

[Sirfetchd]

I was thinking. With the results as they are.

Looks like they knew flub was gonna get lynched today bc of the block which makes more sense with skit being on him at day start.

I am like 99.5% sure the two scum are skit and flub.

[Sirfetchd]

For example, I could see a Skitter/Suji possibility.

The only reason I TR Suji was because of his interactions with Billy.

Where does the nk go in that situation. Is Xayah double shot?

[Sirfetchd]

For example, I could see a Skitter/Suji possibility.

The only reason I TR Suji was because of his interactions with Billy.

Do they both hard secure their team mate's death. Like skitter MADE billy the Lynch, p much singlehandedly. Which I can see. I feel like skitter probably coaches Suji and billy better than that.

[Sirfetchd]

Hmmmm....

Maybe. We're never gonna get confirmation of the kill though. Like even if skit flips scum, we still Lynch flub straight after bc he is still mechanically the most likely scum with her by a long long way bc of the unknowns with the nk.

[Sirfetchd]

For example, I could see a Skitter/Suji possibility.

The only reason I TR Suji was because of his interactions with Billy.

Do they both hard secure their team mate's death. Like skitter MADE billy the Lynch, p much singlehandedly. Which I can see. I feel like skitter probably coaches Suji and billy better than that.

Err, no, I made the Billy lynch single-handedly, not Skitter.

Suji jumped on when Billy was beyond saving.

No skit did. Xayah was the Lynch until skit forced tipping point.

Like convincing people means nothing bc it was a 1 hose race until skit reignited billy. I guess she maybe tells Suji to jump on for vaca wifom idk.

[Sirfetchd]

We can talk about this post game, but in terms of wagon mechanics. The tipping point is the only thing that matters that late in the day. I'll run you through my pov post game. The point is we agree skit is very very like as close as possible to lock level likely scum here. This wagon mechanics debate has no bearing on gamestate at all.

My argument is that it doesn't matter who dies first. Today and tomorrow are flub and skit, it doesn't really matter what order, but there's no point doing anything until they are both dead and presumably the game is over. If it's not then we can revisit. Like if we flip skit today we Lynch flub tomorrow regardless of flip. And if we Lynch flub today we Lynch skit tomorrow regardless of flip.

Flub has more votes rn so I guess he goes first.