Open 769: Venrob's PYP X/Y (Town Wins)

[Sujimichi]

VOTE: Wooper

[Sujimichi]

What do you mean by governed onto scum?

The Governor role in this setup is allowed to change the lynch to another player, not just stop it.

1-shot Governor
~ Once the game has entered twilight (the final hammering vote has been cast) you have 24 hours to change who is being lynched. You may only do this once.

[Sujimichi]

VOTE: Wooper

Scummy rvs vote

In what way?

[Sujimichi]

You didn't ask my motivations for the vote, or even try to understand. You projected your own thoughts that it was empty. Perhaps I had a reason.

What other interesting things were there to talk about? I didn't feel inclined to weigh in on the Governor claim at that time.

[Sujimichi]

"Governor claim [discussion]"

[Sujimichi]

Ok, what was your reasoning?

I'd rather not discuss it overtly at the moment, though I think it should be somewhat easily inferred. Happy to discuss a bit further down the road.

[Sujimichi]

Discussing it currently will impact my reasoning in a way that makes it invalid, which I would like to prevent. If you could be a little patient, I will explain (I would like to assume later today or tomorrow at the latest).

Also, I wasn't shading Skitter. My comment on her is completely factual, but I haven't assigned a motivation to it. She still hasn't answered my question about what other interesting topics there were to discuss, however.

[Sujimichi]

Draft choice is such huge source of information. With double role pick {8,9,10,11} are able to find out which roles were taken by top players. It's obv that both {9,10} are scum.
VOTE: Aaron

Interesting take. Not entirely sure what you mean here but I guess this begs the question of whether or not scum would be allowed to coordinate their draft picks.

This is explicitly allowed.

Mafia may talk in their QT during the Draft.

[Sujimichi]

I could see scum taking either ability honestly.

What changed your opinion?

[Sujimichi]

I get the feeling this implies you know something about the wooperst that the rest of us don't.

It does not.

[Sujimichi]

I get the feeling this implies you know something about the wooperst that the rest of us don't.

It does not.

Sorry. I can see this being viewed as curt. I do not know something about Wooper that the rest of the player base does not, and I did not intend for my statement to imply such.

[Sujimichi]

Suji,

Who is scum?

Three players in this game. Beyond that, I have no clue at this point.

[Sujimichi]

Suji,

Who is scum?

Three players in this game. Beyond that, I have no clue at this point.

Okay but my concern is that all you're doing right now is saying we have to wait for you to do things.

So for that one thing sure, but what about anything else in the interim?

I did not say that anyone has to wait for me "to do things." I asked that a specific question being directed toward me (which wasn't asked until I prompted) wait until later to be answered. This also does not prevent anyone else from doing "things," including asking me questions not related to the one which I asked to be answered later.

I am currently waiting on a follow up from Skitter. Is there anything you would like to discuss?

[Sujimichi]

The setup spec discussion is flying a bit over my head, I'll be honest

Off topic: Your avatar is fantastic.

[Sujimichi]

What do you think of kersets play?

I think it's very mechanical and focused on the setup rather than the players.

Why do you have to wait for skitter to tell you what's interesting in the game?

I don't want to be told what's interesting in the game from her. I would like clarification as to what specifically she was referring to (other than the Governor discussion as I already stated) since she was using it as one reason to say that my behavior was scummy.

[Sujimichi]

...or it's possible that a townie just read the wiki page.

The wiki page was completely empty when I first checked it. That's why I am saying all of this.

It was just missing a close parenthesis in the link. Easily fixed.

[Sujimichi]

Although I'm not the only one that made that mistake. Hm...

What mistake? Not choosing 1 for the second number?

[Sujimichi]

Why is Something_Smart obvious scum (The fact that I have to ask that question means it likely isn't obvious, so let's just go with "Why is Something_Smart scum")?

[Sujimichi]

Oh, I should have quoted that post.

[Sujimichi]

Why is Something_Smart obvious scum (The fact that I have to ask that question means it likely isn't obvious, so let's just go with "Why is Something_Smart scum")?

Because S_S doesn't like scum and is honestly not the best at it. Sure, he's decent but he's no god. The thing S_S is gonna do here is instantly go into mech talk because mech talk is the most simple thing you can do to try and appear busy when really you're not. It's not helping and something I can see scum him going for right away. He's made one townread for 'a stupid reason' but that's it and doesn't go into more detail. Really, we should drop this and force people to play. Anyone regardless of your alignment or how bad you are can talk mech. Not everyone can be decent at mafia. Let's force people to play the game

Perhaps he simply likes to talks mechanics and uses that as a way to get the game moving. Is mechanical discussion something he is unlikely to be involved in with a town alignment, especially in the early stages of the game?

[Sujimichi]

As my question appears to have been answered already, do you disagree with Something_Smart's assertion, Xayah?

[Sujimichi]

VOTE: skitter30

[Sujimichi]

The mod convinced me when he posted the votecount.

[Sujimichi]

Not when they're trying to ride setup spec for easy town points so they can deepwolf.

This comes across as more of a Mafiascum Buzzword dictionary than an actual point.

If speculating on the setup is not indicative of alignment (and is easily called out as such), then why would scum stick their neck out for "easy town points" that are easily called out as not alignment indicative (and thus not easy town points) so that they can further their objective of [there actually isn't a definition of deepwolf that I can find so I assume it means scum who is universally townread] when it doesn't actually further that objective at all?

[Sujimichi]

But setup spec is something that Something_Smart apparently does as either alignment?

So, here's what I'm going to do given that I'm seeing conflicting viewpoints and information. I don't care about setup spec or Haunted Village or whatever other game something happened in. I'm going to care about what happens here, becuase otherwise I think I'm just going to end up confused.

[Sujimichi]

Glancing through the thread I don’t feel great about Skitter either. I think frost is Town atm. Flubber seems Town as well. Null on everyone else atm.

Oh yeah, slight scumread on Suj as well.

Can you provide reasons for any of these statements (outside your null statements)? Why do you feel/think this way?

[Sujimichi]

Unless you were trying to reaction test him in some way, i'm not sure what you were going for there

It was actually to see how the wagon built as he was the largest (though not by a large amount, which was part of the draw) at the time. That ultimately did not work out, so I don't mind disclosing at this point.

[Sujimichi]

So i am going to come after you for that reasoning, to make it sure actually, like, exists

See above.

[Sujimichi]

That was...unfortunate.

See previous page, last post.

[Sujimichi]

the game has started to move out of rvs

Can you clarify how you define this?

[Sujimichi]

So i am going to come after you for that reasoning, to make it sure actually, like, exists

See above.

Let me finish reading

Are you asking me to cease posting until such time?

[Sujimichi]

I've clearly thought harder about it than most people given that 12/14 players didn't pick 1 as their second number.

This isn't an accurate statement given you don't know the goals of all of the players when picking their numbers.

[Sujimichi]

Unless you were trying to reaction test him in some way, i'm not sure what you were going for there

It was actually to see how the wagon built as he was the largest (though not by a large amount, which was part of the draw) at the time. That ultimately did not work out, so I don't mind disclosing at this point.

yeah this is kinda why i read it as oppurtunistic, and why it kinda fit that scumtell i was talking about early
not sure if scum are so forthright about admitting their reasoning like this tho ^

I'm not sure why this would be a scumtell.

[Sujimichi]

the game has started to move out of rvs

Can you clarify how you define this?

when people stop just making greetings and random votes based on things like username, and when discussion starts happening

I think you are projecting your observation of the gamestate to others rather than understanding their own. If someone comes into a game with content that they were not a part of, nor they have made themselves, why are they assumed to have to delve straight into said content rather than participate in a manner that allows them to acclimate to the game.

[Sujimichi]

UNVOTE:

[Sujimichi]

This isn't an accurate statement given you don't know the goals of all of the players when picking their numbers.

All else being equal it's better to be higher because you put a known alignment over a bunch of unknown alignments. The only time you'd want to be low is if you thought you were significantly worse than average at playing as a PR, so by necessity, only a few players can be justified in believing this.

I'm glad that you understand that there are alternatives.

[Sujimichi]

I think you are projecting your observation of the gamestate to others rather than understanding their own. If someone comes into a game with content that they were not a part of, nor they have made themselves, why are they assumed to have to delve straight into said content rather than participate in a manner that allows them to acclimate to the game.

I mean she said it was due to experience, not deduction, so I don't really see how her opinion of the gamestate affects that.

I'm not sure I understand. Her definition of RVS is based on her own experiences, true. She is projecting that to others when she states that "we are out of RVS" when that may not be true to others.

[Sujimichi]

scum dont' like to make waves, it's easier for them to make a empty vote on an already-existing wagon than to contribute

Voting on the leading wagon in order to make it larger is an "empty vote that doesn't make waves?"

[Sujimichi]

I'm not sure I understand. Her definition of RVS is based on her own experiences, true. She is projecting that to others when she states that "we are out of RVS" when that may not be true to others.

I think it's pretty objective? The game's out of RVS when people start making votes that aren't jokes and giving actual reads.

Admittedly, I don't speak with authority here, but I disagree. RVS may be over for the people who made the votes that aren't jokes or gave actual reads, but that is not true for the rest of the players who are still trying to come to their own understanding of the gamestate and may take their own actions to do so.

[Sujimichi]

it depends what stage the wagon is, but yeah sliding in the ~third or fourth vote doesn't tend to seem conspicuous (it's just an rvs wagon!) but they've gotten their feet wet, and it has the added bonus of building a wagon (that if they're lucky might get dangerously close to lynch)

This is a fair point.

[Sujimichi]

Apologies, as I have had limited time this weekend. I will be back to look over everything tomorrow.

[Sujimichi]

It may be because I'm an older gen player, but the crux of a lot of my scum reading is looking at wagon compositions and how people react to pressure and people's reluctance or eagerness to join specific wagons. It results in a lot of wealth of information later down the track.

Are you experienced on this site?

[Sujimichi]

I have a townread on Luca Blight, Something_Smart, and rb. Xayah, Wooper, and Billy are in my scum pool. Townlean on skitter30. I am now caught up.

VOTE: Billy

[Sujimichi]

I've already said that I was busy this weekend. My catchup was earlier than stated. I will provide my full stance within the stated timeframe.

[Sujimichi]

I apologize. I am having a bit of trouble getting into this game with the speed. I'm going to try and get caught up tonight.

[Sujimichi]

UNVOTE:

[Sujimichi]

Catching up from post 824 since I don't think I will be able to do so from an earlier starting point at this time. Notes as a read through below.

Spoiler: Notes

Notes

• Lot's of prodding/questioning of other players by Luca
  
• skitter seems to not know where her vote is a lot this game. Agree with the questioning of Billy in post 879
  
• I agree with Kerset's post 848; specifically the amount of discussion pertaining to previous games.
  
• I like Xayah's post 880. See if nomnomnom follows up. (883 - not a good response)
  
• Agree with Something_Smart's rationale for scumread on Billy 889. Good follow up in post 897
  
• AaronFrost provides stances on players voting Billy (and uses to scumread), but gives content similiar to nomnomnom that Billy just feels off. Look at wagon speed, was it really fast?
  
• Nomnomnom has similar thoughts on Aaron.
  
• Don't understand rb's Aaron townread. Get more information.
  
• How do you pressure an inactive slot? 935
  
• skitter reads align 938
  
• 967 doesn't appear to be true
  
• I can relate to, and understand, Xayah's 992. Reasoning makes sense.
  
• Don't understand Sirfetchd's points outside of opinon on theory. Disagree with Xayah vote.
  
• Don't understand the point of many of rb's posts. Disagree with Xayah vote.
  
• Don't like Luca's push on me being inactive. Life happens. Why push on me over another inactive player?
  
• Something_Smart and Xayah could be tied together. Look more into that later if needed.
  
• 1063 doesn't actually explain why it is worthy to push. Phrasing makes it look more like a desire to lynch and not push for information. Derail?
  
• 1073 Aaron potentially tied to Billy if mafia.
  
• 1113 I like wooper's rationale. I may have to rethink some of my stances.
  
• Somewhat agreeing with Something_Smart's readlist (1143) prior to rethinking.
  
• Why do people think PMysterious is anything but null?
  
• 1196has lots of townreads but either handwaves or unclear on others except Aaron. Feels easy and without taking a stance.
  
• 1216 Calls out what I thought when I read it.

Reads

Town Read:
Town Lean: Luca Blight, Something_Smart, wooper, rb
Null-Town: nomnomnom, skitter30, Flubbernugget
True Null: PMysterious
Null-Scum: Xayah, Sirfetchd
Scum Lean: AaronFrost, Billy Pilgrim
Scum Read: kerset

[Sujimichi]

Sujimichi has been prodded for inactivity.

Apologies. I didn't think that I had been gone that long.

I dont like the fact that s_s came but he did not bother to vote at all. We are <24.

For me VOTE: billy

Why Billy over Xayah? Based on your statements, you seem to have both as middling reads.

I notice Suji’s been active onsite since his prod and yet hasn’t even bothered to check-in here.

You shouldn't bring current outside events into the game. There are reasons that may exist that cannot be discussed per site rules.

[Sujimichi]

I don’t get Suji’s no-vote. Why not either vote Billy, your bigger scumread, or make a push for Kerset, your biggest scumread?

I'm still here. Why should I vote at the moment when:

1. I asked a question I wanted an answer to; and,
   
2. we still have time?

[Sujimichi]

could be if billy's scum and he's a partner he doesn't want to give support to that wagon if he can avoid it
i don't think kerset is viable rn

No, but Xayah is, and Kerset is on the opposing wagon.

[Sujimichi]

Ok. She's not anymore, I guess.

[Sujimichi]

VOTE: Billy Pilgrim

[Sujimichi]

The most recent moderator vote count was on the same page, seven posts prior. What was the point of that post? To chastise?

[Sujimichi]

Good lynch, didn't expect Billy to actually flip scum.

Also was 100% sure that rb was town, called it!

What's the plan today?

What do you think it should be?

[Sujimichi]

I have a good feeling that perhaps scum was on that wagon late for townpoints. Just an intuition.

It's very likely.

[Sujimichi]

i feel like if it's like 5 hours ot deadline or whatever and the game is dead and it's day1 you just vote whoever needs to be voted to make a wagon happen and the fact that he needed to be prodded to vote is ???

Two questions:

1. Why do I have to vote when there is still time left and I had questions I would have liked to have been answered? I was aware that my vote would be the hammer, which in turn means that the day ends whenever the moderator is available to process the action.
   
2. Why do players here make such a big deal around activity instead of words, reason, and action? I apologize for my life.

I believe you are town given current evidence, but I think you look at things in a myopic manner.

[Sujimichi]

i mean the hammer had to happen, i'm more weirded out that he had to be prodded to hammer

For example: this is not a truthful statement. I was unaware of the amount of time left in the day. The moderator sent me a private message to let me know that I had not posted within the require timeframe. I then proceed to catch up as I stated that I did in post 1300. I believe the rest of the actions that occurred are recent enough to be clear.

[Sujimichi]

I don't want to waste a mislynch on me considering that we profit from revisiting other slots.

You will learn absolutely nothing about the scumteam by lynching me. You'll end up in day 3 scratching your head and stuff. I'm a bad lynch.

I still think Aaron is a good lynch by the by. His last posts feel like preparation to justify a vote on me. Keep this in mind if you actually go through lynching me today.

this is awful

What do you believe this post to be awful?

[Sujimichi]

I don’t get Suji’s no-vote. Why not either vote Billy, your bigger scumread, or make a push for Kerset, your biggest scumread?

I'm still here. Why should I vote at the moment when:

1. I asked a question I wanted an answer to; and,
   
2. we still have time?

VOTE: Billy Pilgrim

i don't understand this progression in the context of your response

The opposing wagon on Xayah further degraded to a point of non-relevance, and I was unlikely to get an answer to my query without it. Billy Pilgrim was in my lower tier for the majority of the day phase, and I was fine with him being the lynch.

[Sujimichi]

this always looks survivalistic to me

This resonates with me.

VOTE: nomnomnom

[Sujimichi]

UNVOTE:

That is too quick.

[Sujimichi]

suji you don't get meaningful wagonomics if you panic every time a meaningful wagon happens

who's vote/s worry/ies you?

I'm not sure what wagonomics are, but there is an interesting dynamic between AaronFrost and nomnomnom I would like to see continue.

[Sujimichi]

What was concerning about either vote?

[Sujimichi]

Regarding your point about activity, I think it’s fair to say you’ve been scumread this game for both activity and content. That said, you’re probably Town only due to the Billy interactions.

Could you comment on how my content is scummy? This is something that I incurred throughout my Mini Theme game even though I ended up winning the game for town during the night. Postgame commentary was I needed experience, but that's not very helpful if my content is read as scum.

I still don't understand how activity can be read either way, so that could be helpful as well.

[Sujimichi]

suji are you an alt?

I am not. I am asked this every game I play though, and my answer is the same. I was introduced to this site by a friend.

[Sujimichi]

suji you don't get meaningful wagonomics if you panic every time a meaningful wagon happens

who's vote/s worry/ies you?

I'm not sure what wagonomics are, but there is an interesting dynamic between AaronFrost and nomnomnom I would like to see continue.

talk to me more about this? i haven't really registered it yet

Should I talk to you about my lack of understanding of wagonomics which was not cleared up for me, or the interesting dynamic between AaronFrost and nomnomnom which is apparent over the previous two pages?

[Sujimichi]

Activity can be scummy if someone is repeatedly delaying their catch-up, as you were D1. Obviously you might have just been very busy for about 5/6 days, but it could also be a scum tactic.

I described why I found your content scummy on D1 - playing devil’s advocate, not getting your hands dirty, playing it safe while looking somewhat useful. These are typical scum behaviours. As I said, however, I think you’re Town atm.

My comments on activity were truthful, and I find someone using a lie regarding outside life for an in-game advantage to be underhanded. I understand I may play devil's advocate, but that is for my own understanding, and I am likely to never change that. I'm not sure how I was playing it safe, but perhaps that can be a point for discussion after the game.

Thank you.

[Sujimichi]

or the interesting dynamic between AaronFrost and nomnomnom which is apparent over the previous two pages?

talk about this part, if you can

wagonomics is when you look at how wagons formed and where votes moved to and why to see if you can figure out what the scumz were doing at various points of the game

Post 1367- post 1381. What would you like me to talk about?

[Sujimichi]

i thought you were volunteering to talk about your thoughts there

Are there questions that you would like answered? I was responding to a direct question from Wooper.

[Sujimichi]

Should I talk to you about my lack of understanding of wagonomics which was not cleared up for me, or the interesting dynamic between AaronFrost and nomnomnom which is apparent over the previous two pages?

either
both
whichever subjects make your blood boil and your soul burst forth
give me everything suji

I don't actually think there is anything here to make my blood figuratively boil (funny ). However, I note that Aaron opens with a push on why nomnomnom while also positing I have scummy attribute due to my end of day behavior. While quoting the same post twice (1366 and 1370, and despite my similar assertion that AaronFrost ignored), he votes nomnomnom, while giving me the benefit of the doubt without explanation. nomnomnom the posts 1376 which skitter30 commented on with reasons for being bad. I would like to see Aaron's response to nomnomnom's post 1381 but I am currently debating internally whether or not this is a false interaction between the two.

[Sujimichi]

@suji
how are you reading aaron and what do you think of the fact that they are currently voting for nom?

Please see my previous post.

[Sujimichi]

how many scum would you say are in {noms, aaron}?

Potentially 1-2.

Roughly 70% and 30% confidence level for each estimate in the current state.

[Sujimichi]

For further clarification, I like to have "tinfoil hat theories" in my mind at all times.

[Sujimichi]

so u think they could be svs?

i could maybe kinda see aaron/nom and nom/billy but i'm not sure i see aaron/nom/billy, if that makes sense

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. My 70% confidence is that one of Aaron/nomnomnom is scum. My 30% confidence level is my "tinfoil hat theory" that they both are. As I said, I like to always have a "tinfoil hat theory."

This is based on my current analysis of the game and it could change given more content from more people.

[Sujimichi]

any chance of a tiered readlist suji?

sorry to ask; i'm not really sure i could do one rn

I can commit to this tomorrow. It's too late for me to do so today.

[Sujimichi]

any chance of a tiered readlist suji?

sorry to ask; i'm not really sure i could do one rn

I can commit to this tomorrow. It's too late for me to do so today.

Sorry for the delay, Wooper. This is what I had from my notes as of post 1453.

Reads

Town Read: Luca Blight
Town Lean: skitter30, Something_Smart, Wooper, Xayah
Null-Town:
True Null: PMysterious
Null-Scum: kerset, Flubbernugget
Scum Lean: Sirfetchd
Scum Read: nomnomnom, AaronFrost

[Sujimichi]

As far as i remember you SR me so do you pair me with them?

I don't really associate your posting with town, and your position on Billy's wagon could be viewed as suspect. That said, it is not something I am spending much time thinking about right now.

[Sujimichi]

I think that rb was killed bc of draft order. Flub was inactive so i could see why he wasn't the one to die.

There are two likely scenarios and neither have to do with his activity. This is a strange post.

[Sujimichi]

VOTE: AaronFrost

[Sujimichi]

I've already provided my commentary on that. I don't necessarily think you are both scum, just highly likely that one of you is.

[Sujimichi]

Kinda feeling like it's the vogue thing to have me at null scum at the moment.

I'm about to go to bed, but if people want a chat, lets make it happen. Because I have never seen a more unanimous "maybe this guy is scum but none of us are actually feeling it but maybe?" bc that's just mafia y'all.

Also I need to sort everyone too. So hold me to 1 on 1 chats.

I actually have you as a scum lean, not null scum, given your defense and interactions with Billy and his interactions with you. If not for nomnomnom and AaronFrost, I would be voting you.

[Sujimichi]

I still reckon the Billy flip means nothing for reads on Xayah fwiw.
@suji: same diff.

It's not the "same difference" as I have two null-scum reads that I would not vote over you. If it was the "same difference" I wouldn't have two separate categories.

[Sujimichi]

VOTE: AaronFrost

why'd you pick aaron over nom?

I wanted to see what would happen to either wagon when they came closer to parity.

[Sujimichi]

Post 1665 was a bad post by Sirfetchd.

[Sujimichi]

As I said it doesn't matter, when I flip scum you're going down lol

Strange slip.

[Sujimichi]

VOTE: nomnomnom

L-1

[Sujimichi]

It was more for the absent players when they return or their replacements if they do not.

[Sujimichi]

Yes, I think that would be a good idea.

[Sujimichi]

Is it just Aaron/noms lmao

That would explain noms giving up and Aaron being hypertunneled on her.

That's my tinfoil hat theory I posited earlier.

[Sujimichi]

Hangs Aaron

[Sujimichi]

listmods know who alllll the alts are

Yes, we do.

[Sujimichi]

Ok. I'm going back to being my normal self because obviously I'm bad at it.

It's defeatist yeah, but is that scummy?

I've heard that it's a scum tactic to reverse a wagon, but have not seen it in practice.

Fetched all this talk about optimal lynches w/o just trying to hit scum is a bad look

I agree. However, I am liking Sirfetchd a little more based on posting this page.

[Sujimichi]

idk i'm not vibing town!suji that strongly rn

What are your concerns with me as this seems to be a consistent view?

[Sujimichi]

i don't know

you don't feel ~scummy~ per se but:

- i still don't like your pop-in at eod 1 and how you hammered there (i know we talked about it but i still feel that way)
- there were a few townie posts that i kinda liked

but holistically i just don't feel comfortable townbinning you rn

idk how to explain that better

1. I can't control how my real life affects when and how I am here to play, so there is nothing I can do to alleviate this.

Ok, so you don't feel comfortable placing me as town in your list. You are actively challenging others, however, so I thought there was more concern on your part.

[Sujimichi]

Ok, so you don't feel comfortable placing me as town in your list. You are actively challenging others, however, so I thought there was more concern on your part.

well more like if he was seeing something i wasn't that should be making me townbin since i don't see it rn

Ok. I get the feeling you want to scumread me, and I don't think you can't fault me for thinking otherwise given you attempt to interact with me but when I answer you don't respond in any way and you challenge people when they town read me. That doesn't feel like honestly sorting me.

That is my feeling. I can't attribute a positive alignment rationale to it, so I'm not sure why you want to do that.

[Sujimichi]

suji do you feel like you're accurately and comfortably sortable via your contributions so far or do you think there's an agenda in postponing the read?

I believe that I should be sortable (as town, but that is from my point of view). As I just said, I don't understand the motivation as either alignment to assert not to be able to.

[Sujimichi]

I changed my mind about Aaron I figured this out. Lets goooo

This further reinforces my tinfoil hat theory. I will not be unvoting.

[Sujimichi]

I changed my mind about Aaron I figured this out. Lets goooo

This further reinforces my tinfoil hat theory. I will not be unvoting.

You don't think scum!nom would want you to think this?

Think what, specifically?

[Sujimichi]

I changed my mind about Aaron I figured this out. Lets goooo

This further reinforces my tinfoil hat theory. I will not be unvoting.

see I told ya people are full confbias territory now

For real tough, Xayah's probably scum, the real question is who is scum with her in this config.

You were previously thinking Aaron was scum, correct? All this has done is increased my probability that you two are aligned.

[Sujimichi]

You know what confirmation bias is right? You were voting me because I was voting aaron and now that I change my read you say it's scummy, it's kind of a catch 22 and you kind of need to reset to see that you're just in confbias mode.

The true answer is that I just had a sudden realization about this game and that gamestate wise it makes a LOT of sense for Xayah to be scum and if she is then Aaron is pretty much confirmed town in my eyes.

I was not voting you. I am voting Aaron.

[Sujimichi]

That me and nom are both scum.

I am unsure as to why you would ask this because her recent posting would suggest that she wants you two to not be associated together as scum, thus strengthening my tinfoil hat theory.

[Sujimichi]

Too tired to check the VC rofl

Doesn't matter either way, Xayah's the lynch anyway. I'll leave you the time to come to the same conclusion as me, hopefully today.

You don't believe that your interaction with me just now matters in any way? And, you suggest a different lynch than the two leading wagons but don't profer any reason as to why, relying on us to "come to the same conclusion" based on....?

I am okay with lynching nomnomnom today.

[Sujimichi]

ou're also not the only person to suggest that theory either.

I am aware. I asserted so to Something_Smart earlier today.

[Sujimichi]

I provided an explanation as to why just now. I heard reading was a good skill to have.

I am able to read coherently, thank you. Your rationale seems to be activity-based which (if not obvious by my responses in this game so far) is not something I am inclined to be open to, as well as the assertion of bussing (which is weak on its own). Do you have anything else?

[Sujimichi]

I will read it again tomorrow. Thank you.

[Sujimichi]

Why not do it now? We're not on a one hour timer you know

I require sleep from time to time.

[Sujimichi]

VOTE: nomnomnom

[Sujimichi]

I'm confused as to what I should do when it is my turn.

[Sujimichi]

When am I supposed to be claiming? Am I supposed to claim what roles I attempted to receive, the role I received, or both?

[Sujimichi]

Apologies. I didn't see that post, hence my request for clarification and continued confusion.

• Actual Role: Vanilla Townie
  
• First Pick: Neighborizer
  
• Second Pick: Watcher

[Sujimichi]

my second pick was woooooptcher (watcher)!
Suji picks are actually full blown spicy

Why Neighbouriser over gunsmith? & why watcher over commuter?

I'm not sure why they are spicy. I prefer talking with people so a role that would allow me to do that without the noise from the main thread is appealing. The gunsmith role has too many false positives associated with it for it be of interest to me. I don't see the benefit of town taking the commuter role, and think that the watcher role would potentially give more useful information.

[Sujimichi]

I assume we have finished the mass claim? I haven't read up yet.

[Sujimichi]

I'm fairly certain I want to lynch Flubbernugget at this moment. I do not like Kerset's claim though. Someone will have to help me understand the case against skitter30.

[Sujimichi]

Apologies for my absence. I wasn't aware the game had started back.

[Sujimichi]

Wooper is not clear due to no confirmed two kills in one night, and Vengeful would be a good role for scum to take. Other than that, I do not mind the actions that have been proposed regarding lynch and investigation.

[Sujimichi]

Are we ready to hammer?

[Sujimichi]

VOTE: Sirfetchd

[Sujimichi]

I agree with what Luca Blight said in the previous two posts. I could entertain a no lynch today. Although, Kerset and I are cleared and mafia could kill either one of us tonight putting us in the same situation tomorrow with regards to skitter30's alignment.

I would just like to assume that skitter30 is town, since I have for a while now, and lynch Wooper here.

[Sujimichi]

That is my preference, as I implied. Although, why are we including Luca Blight in today's lynch candidates? I believe that today should be Wooper without other considerations.

[Sujimichi]

I wish we could get more suji thoughs as he may be gone tomorrow.

What would you like to hear from me? I believe the game will be over once we lynch Wooper, but I am okay with no lynching. I think skitter30's outline helped me understand it a little bit better beyond my initial thoughts.

[Sujimichi]

I think lynching Wooper wins the game. I don't find the Night 2 Vigilante claim to be credible given only one kill that night, and I doubt that Billy's wagon was purely town (there was two mafia on Xayah). He has to be the first lynch as he would have chosen Vengeful as scum. In the less likely scenario that it is not Wooper, I think it has to be Adorable due to:

• PMysterious play (or lack thereof).
• Her reads in post 2179.
• The slot's voting record
• Process of elimination on the remaining slots.
  • Luca Blight is unlikely to be mafia given his record on voting mafia, draft selection, and general play.
  • Skitter30 is unlikely to be mafia given her role choice and general play.
    • If Mafia, why would she choose gunsmith and then be required to clear players?
    • If Mafia and Neighborizer, why did she not use it?
  • Kerset is cleared.
  • I am cleared.

[Sujimichi]

I'm not clear as to your meaning. Adorable being mafia goes against my thoughts on Billy's wagon not being all town, but other than that see many points against her slot.

[Sujimichi]

I wasnt really planning for a gunsmith claim day1 or day2 so i didnt play towards that, and it showed

Why did you claim a role that required you to clear Town?

[Sujimichi]

I wasnt really planning for a gunsmith claim day1 or day2 so i didnt play towards that, and it showed

Why did you claim a role that required you to clear Town?

Cuz i had the gunsmith/neighborizer slot and my opyions were either to:

1. Fake claim neighborizer
2. Fake claim gs
3. Claim vt and put myself in a lynch pool of like 4 people

I was doing the nks so like all of these were bad options ^

Lack of multitasking is hard

Oh. I thought that Mafia could kill and use their roles at the same time, but it looks like the rules do explicitly state that they cannot. That does make it hard to choose the correct claim, especially in this circumstance.

[Sujimichi]

Only unclaimed people at that point were me, you, and fetched

Ohh that's the part I was missing.

Man this setup is quite townsided but that's fixable, and I really like it. It has a ton of mechanical depth. I'm very good with mechanics and even then I made multiple mechanical mistakes.

I'm curious as to how you determine whether something is skewed towards the town or skewed toward the mafia.

[Sujimichi]

I'm curious as to how you determine whether something is skewed towards the town or skewed toward the mafia.

A simple metric is to look at how many errors town can make and still win. An error is when town (or scum, acting as a town role) lynches, shoots, or cop checks another townie (it's an error because that's a missed chance to get scum).

We mislynched noms, Flubber, and wooper, and we copped Aaron, Adorable, Kerset, and Suji, and we vigged Xayah, and that's not even counting the two investigative shots that targeted dead people or Sirfetchd preventing skitter from giving a result.

rb and I were PR's and would probably have had to be killed anyway. So in effect, all we had to do to win this game was trust that Luca was town. And that was after wasting two cop shots and two gunsmith shots.

And we didn't even have a doctor. Imagine if one of the VT's had been doctor, how screwed scum would have been.

This is interesting. Thank you.