Open 769: Venrob's PYP X/Y (Town Wins)

[Wooper]

VOTE: sirfetchd
look at you with your weird pompous leek. get on my level and hit the bakery.

[Wooper]

superficially calling nom*3 town until further notice
\o\ woot /o/

[Wooper]

Hey duck

VOTE: Wooper

Did you role scum again?

i'm town this time - you won't even recognise me. <3

Why did so many people pick not-1 for their second number?

I actually didnt entirely understand what the second number was for

^ this

[Wooper]

hi

[Wooper]

@inferior leek-duck: who are we voting?

[Wooper]

not rn. busy irl and low motivation. i'll get into this later.

[Wooper]

who's plugging SS scum?

[Wooper]

If anyone who knows SS is calling him scum lynch them lol
otherwise carry on

[Wooper]

UNVOTE:
I'll sheep Sirf or Kerset for the moment

[Wooper]

SS is playing with more activity than i've ever seen him play

idk what that means for his alignment tho

he gets nervous as scum
not a locktown but it's town indicative

[Wooper]

SS is playing with more activity than i've ever seen him play

idk what that means for his alignment tho

Nothing. It means I have more free time now

oh valid
towny response ig

Don't think Woop's lack of activity is indicative of anything, want to know why you're specifically keen on kerset though, as it's basically been noise for me so far.

it works interesting angles and has good intuition, i want to see where it's going

VOTE: aaron sheep as promised

hi rb, i'm your 7th biggest fan

[Wooper]

i'm gonna call it NAI because that seems most accurate but yeah that's my feeling as well

i think this is appropriate

but as previously suggested anyone who knows+is scumreading SS needs to be checked

idk if there's anyone in this category these posts have been max effort for me rn

[Wooper]

hhhmmmmm
you know me, i'm always down for a party

VOTE: kerset

[Wooper]

just +1ing rb is town
idk abt kerset yet but finding out is half the fun~!

[Wooper]

just +1ing rb is town
idk abt kerset yet but finding out is half the fun~!

disagree

agree to disagree.

[Wooper]

I will now perform a magic trick.

Wooper wooper wooper

SIIIIIR-fetch'd!

summoning rituals are p dubious when I'm at work dear noms

[Wooper]

Sirf is liek my strongest townread. I bit them last night and they tasted like town.

[Wooper]

What other reads do you have, Wooper?

other than all my reads? zilch, why?

Why do I get scumvibes from Wooper?

I swear to god I wanted to townread the slot because I've played many games with ducky where I soulread him and wanted to see how it develops but I have this sinking feeling that ducky isn't town.

suspect it's absence of townvibes; I don't care about this game yet and may not until there's fewer people alive

[Wooper]

not rly

[Wooper]

Good point
VOTE: aaron

[Wooper]

Kerset is one of my favorite new people!

[Wooper]

@Kerset I do have several irl problems rn. Relatively limited time/energy for Mafia so I'm budgeting it. not burning myself out on this game is actually net very protown.

Antitown = lynched is a pretty poor mindset trap to fall into btw; policy can be a pretty grey area and time's better spent finding ill motives than plynching people who are busy. you've seen me vomit up a phoney scumcase off pg. 1 of a thread pretty recently. I think you know sheer effort doesn't make me more likely to be town.

[Wooper]

Kerset I don't enjoy being shaded then avoided much :c

[Wooper]

I love SS stfu
we're all angry and jaded outside the newbie queue it's jarring, these games are also bigger/fastpaced; there's an adjustment

incidentally yeah I don't think Kerset is nearly as towny as they are in newbie games here

[Wooper]

go to bed rub and think about what you said.

[Wooper]

go to bed rub and think about what you said.

daddy ducky is truly a sight to behold I'd be scared to disappoint you

this made me snort
thanks nomz (i think)

[Wooper]

his reads are sketch and his catchup's been creepin me out but i didn't mind his older posts

[Wooper]

who are the cool kids voting?

[Wooper]

Sirf is Elli btw

[Wooper]

oops that was meant for the scum pt :$ :$

[Wooper]

ass

Aaron/Xayah thoughts on this post?

[Wooper]

I'm worth keeping around I'm just cold on early-game these days

if it's any solace my reads are better when I'm bored until latephase/lategame :<

[Wooper]

not lynching aaron today either

won't lynch day1: Luca, skitter, nom, aaron
preferred lynch: xayah or kerset

everything else up for discussion

also:

choo choo!

you forgot me :{
what do you like about noms?

VOTE: xayah

[Wooper]

i'm letting myself backseat even more for right now due to recently finished games

[Wooper]

@mod proxy vote to skitter please

if you allow this kinda thing

[Wooper]

@Billy
i believe in your towngame and i love you!!
just do your best. your towniness shines through when you do and that's what counts


also

Surely when I close my eyes the bad dream ends, we lynch aaron and flip a scum and we all have a good laugh

lmao

[Wooper]

‘If I’m scum who is it with?’

Btw that’s a really stupid question for D1.

most of the time ya
it's probably stupid in this instance i just saw this and was like mmmm

[Wooper]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Billy

I think this is the optimal Lynch today. I can elaborate on why Frost is Town later when I have time.

Scumcase for me? I just flicked thru his ISO. In the absence of flips I think he's done a couple of things which are loosely towntelling and maybe one thing which is a little concerning; but more something I'd be interested in his input on than something I want him dead for.

[Wooper]

yeah because lurker lynches are a great idea!! : ]

[Wooper]

Oh wait you tr Billy?

[Wooper]

I think Billy is town yeah I don't think I have reads on any lurkslots aorn

pedit: yes /o/

[Wooper]

Which lurker shall we decimate Mr. Rub?

[Wooper]

before your head is unstuck--can you explain what you were seeing in scum!Billy to me rq?

[Wooper]

Understood - why aren't you voting?

[Wooper]

Your posts from 868 onward seem way more focused on justifying yourself than on actually forming reads. As in, you're not saying "this is what I think and this is why I think it," you're saying, "look at everything I'm doing and why it could be coming from town."

Billy is fairly inexperienced (but a good newbie!) and is being heavily pressured on d1. Do you think it's instinctual for newbtown to ignore pressure on them and instead go into hyperfocused solving mode? His posting before this fairly advanced stage of his ISO is also pretty pro-solve. the only thing I'm iffy on is that he keeps asking questions which he doesn't appear to follow through on but I think I can sort through this in realtime pretty quick My main issue here is I don't see how you think his defensiveness in this gamestate is scum indicative

Man, I was thinking you were town earlier, but now I'm not sure.

This is one of the worst lines in the entire string of posts, because it sets your previous reasoning aside and frames Luca as untrustworthy because he made a subjective comment that incriminates you.

Worst optically yes but again I'm not sure how you reach that it's scummy.. There's no downward trajectory on Luca who is fairly widely townread from what I can tell--you don't think scum!Billy in this case would be anxious about suddenly dropping his read on Luca?

Do you think this kind of whiplash read change style actually comes from scum? I hate the "what's the holistic motivation behind it?" thing but I'm not really sure why scum!Billy is incentivised to do it here. It just read like an actual read he was trying on for size.

And then his recent posting felt very reactive. Don't remember any more off the top of my head.

Yes it has been. He's a newbie under pressure d1 who doesn't want to be lynched. Not sure how you're seeing scum here.


Just a note you opened this phase self-voting, then voteparked Billy for ages, then unvoted. You got no other scumreads or avenues worth pursuing this close to deadline?

Understand you've been tunnelled on Billy but for someone tunnelling scum d1 it doesn't feel like you've spent a lot of time actually...you know...looking for or evaluating scummy things he's done

I'm a bit surprised you've wasted this phase tunnelling someone you don't have much of a read on SS.

[Wooper]

that's not even the towny bit rub :/

[Wooper]

Today was fucking terrible.

I'm going to do my best to catch up

hope you're okay flubs

[Wooper]

Do you think it's instinctual for newbtown to ignore pressure on them and instead go into hyperfocused solving mode?

False dichotomy. I would expect a natural response to be "damn, gotta show them how town I am," which isn't completely incongruous with what he did but it's definitely closer to the natural scum response of "damn, gotta get them off my back."

then don't mind the false dichotomy, I'm being partially rhetorical to get an interesting response out of you. how did you parse that this comes from scum rather than newbtown? I think it's completely intuitive for newbtown to flail to throw people off their back and his flailing doesn't feel scummy

the other parts of the post were the parts I was more interested in

[Wooper]

My main issue here is I don't see how you think his defensiveness in this gamestate is scum indicative

I don't remember where I heard this

But someone talked about explaining how what you did COULD make sense from town is a scumtell, and it's super accurate to how I played as a newbie, and that's what I see

Idk why you're asking me to justify a read I just admitted I was tunneled into.

because I don't believe your tunnel. I think the read is phoney.

[Wooper]

I'd also probably argue that backwards - what COULD make sense as a towntell is usually a towntell !

pedit: PMys is also Quite wolfy

[Wooper]

full disclosure: I hate meta and focus on it as little as possible

where are your reads at rn ss

[Wooper]

WHERE THE FUCK IS MARIA'S HOUSE I'M ON MY WAY

[Wooper]

there's like a whole reason I'm not voting SS rn and it's not regret from failing to engage with him about a certain underrated scumread in a certain recently finished game or anything like that hahaha what nooooo haha

pedit: no one with chocolate is in adelaide smh
are you aussie sirf?

[Wooper]

Btw if you want me in the spotlight I wouldn't mind that kind of attention rn

how do you feel about SS in his current spotlight? I think we've both been kinda underwhelming. Let's save the day together.

[Wooper]

you didn't need to overqualify that readlist.
why strong town on noms - and leantown Xayah?

any comments on why skitter feels different exactly?

[Wooper]

HAMMER INCOMINGGGGGG

[Wooper]

Wooper, please don’t try to portray Billy as a newbie - that’s the reason he was townread in his previous scumgame, for passing a couple of reaction tests no-one believed he was capable of as scum. He’s a fast learner and very clued-up, don’t underestimate him.

When I’m on a computer I’ll make a scum case against Billy, because I do still believe he is scum.

give my posts another go Luca
newbscum can pull rxn tests, I'm v aware of that

think SS's reasons for scumreading Billy were kinda jank. actually haven't seen any scumcases on him I agree w at all aorn

[Wooper]

Sorry for no url this time i am on mobile

jsyk the post tag is super neat

Code: Select all

[post]1[/post]

= 1

[Wooper]

@wooper

how come you scumread xayah?

I don't have a read on Xayah yet please don't ask relevant and stressful questions.

[Wooper]

I’m not sold on Skitter being Town but I definitely don’t want that Lynch today.

i like you.
also starring to feel this way about xayah :u

VOTE: Billy

[Wooper]

i swear if you read billy's iso just up to like post 321, it's super towny?

VOTE: PMysterious
wouldn't say super towny but I liked it but I think Luca sounds right wanna jam about Billy?

[Wooper]

UGH I don't know about Xayah but I just tried to mislynch her accidentally and then mislynched someone else and if I'm wrong I'll feel stupid again

[Wooper]

VOTE: Billy

[Wooper]

nah dw somewhat smarties is town

[Wooper]

I'm not married to this wagon but comp looks readable

[Wooper]

Billy Pilgrim (8):

Xayah, Luca Blight, skitter30, Wooper, Kerset, rb, AaronFrost, Sujimichi

Xayah (2):

Sirfetchd, Billy Pilgrim

Kerset (2):

Flubbernugget, nomnomnom

rb (1):

PMysterious

Not Voting (1):

Something_Smart

Billy Pilgrim is today's putative lynch. If Governor and/or Vengeful exist, they should submit their actions now.

Twilight ends in:

(expired on 2019-11-03 19:38:00)

I didn't fully expect to get a redflip either akshuly but sometimes DESTINY extends its hand and this wagon felt like DESTINY.

[Wooper]

BTW I finally rolled scum in a large game off-site and I got that "urge to kill them all" out of my system and I feel a lot more zen/mellow about mafia afterwards : ]

I'll continue to effort exactly as much as I can. can throw down newest scum meta if ppl are keen too.

[Wooper]

agree fwiw
i've seen skitter bus but
never this well

[Wooper]

be safe sirf

[Wooper]

Well

this is the only post in pm's iso which isn't "hey guys! still here but i'll get to this later!" which is like scum coasting 101

can someone check it for billy association tells, he defs comes down on the wrong side of the argument and votes Rb for kinda dubious reasons but idk yet

[Wooper]

VOTE: nomz

[Wooper]

suji you don't get meaningful wagonomics if you panic every time a meaningful wagon happens

who's vote/s worry/ies you?

[Wooper]

suji's vote worried me

[Wooper]

why'd you vote then

basically
because i know i'm town
and i was interested in seeing what would happen

[Wooper]

suji you don't get meaningful wagonomics if you panic every time a meaningful wagon happens

who's vote/s worry/ies you?

I'm not sure what wagonomics are, but there is an interesting dynamic between AaronFrost and nomnomnom I would like to see continue.

talk to me more about this? i haven't really registered it yet

[Wooper]

sigh

just quoting this so it's in my iso and i can dig it up if i'm set to be the game losing mislynch

i kinda feel like d2 skitter from that game rn

[Wooper]

Activity can be scummy if someone is repeatedly delaying their catch-up, as you were D1. Obviously you might have just been very busy for about 5/6 days, but it could also be a scum tactic.

ye agreed
not interested in angleshooting/elitell etc. so won't be checking PMyst but i do think the way they're posting/delaying is kinda scum indicative

[Wooper]

i feel like your meta has changed a lot since we last played a lot, and i got to see that firsthand in c++ there

i've kinda hit a point where i'm enjoying having good reads more than i'm enjoying making townie-sounding posts (which inherently comes with being less liked/'townread' at a surface level) and i'm kinda enjoying playing scum more than playing town

sorry yeah it's probably a super frustrating knowing mafia!me as long as you have bc my current towngame largely resembles my scumgame like 12-15 months ago

[Wooper]

Should I talk to you about my lack of understanding of wagonomics which was not cleared up for me, or the interesting dynamic between AaronFrost and nomnomnom which is apparent over the previous two pages?

either
both
whichever subjects make your blood boil and your soul burst forth
give me everything suji

[Wooper]

@skitter cool new avi

[Wooper]

how many scum would you say are in {noms, aaron}?

[Wooper]

any chance of a tiered readlist suji?

sorry to ask; i'm not really sure i could do one rn

[Wooper]

any chance of a tiered readlist suji?

sorry to ask; i'm not really sure i could do one rn

I can commit to this tomorrow. It's too late for me to do so today.

ok; have a good night

[Wooper]

SUPER TOWN TIMES 100

: Wooper
Town: Skitter, SS,
Lean Town: Suji, Xayah, Frost, Kerset

Null-Town: Wooper

Null-scum: Flubs
Scum-lean: PM, Fetchd
Scum: Nom

That’s roughly where I’m at right now

made one small correction
otherwises i like these reads like, quite a bit

[Wooper]

it's ok no one knows who you are anyway duck boy

dw, i trust my ability to obvtown lategame /o/

[Wooper]

don't you usually just divine a read on me from tea leaves and proceed accordingly noms?

[Wooper]

shining townie

...did u follow the game u just modded btw

[Wooper]

DON'T

[Wooper]

scum all picked just-believably-high numbers

idk a whole lotta renditions of the setup but it's a p ez scum strat

[Wooper]

I think I'll just VOTE: Wooper. He feels extremely dodgy and just going through the motions to me. If you have a towncase for him feel free to present it.

i'm town!!! the wizard told me so!! just ask him!!!!

[Wooper]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10302704

the great scum!skitter deciding all 3 of them should go high

[Wooper]

i remember how wholesome 2018 scum!skitter was
now she's a battle-worn town-slayin machine

[Wooper]

don't think scum!skit lets her buddy pick 4 ngl
this feels like such a dumb wifomtrap read but
: |

[Wooper]

click the link

[Wooper]

i linked the post where she talks abt it

[Wooper]

yeah!!

i'm lolclearing myself on a policy basis given i would rather die than let a teammate pick 4 or 6

[Wooper]

Possibly a townie point or two PM’s way?

"this slot is prolly scum but let's not pressure it"
unfortunately not sure that's something billy wouldn't think to post as pmys' buddy :/

flubs wagon is fine

[Wooper]

I tend to put draftreads on the back burner and all good townies should but that doesn't stop me from demanding I'm metacleared based entirely on draft picks

[Wooper]

no

[Wooper]

Nom, thoughts on Flubs?

Easy to forget about the guy so your vote makes sense and I approve of it. I could vote there honestly, although Aaron seems like a much better lynch if you forget the "look at the lurkers" angle.

how
why do you think it's more valuable to be voting me

[Wooper]

VOTE: noms

[Wooper]

[Wooper]

At the end of D1 the only thing that he talked about was Billy.

This is the only thing anyone wanted to ask me about.

I was the first person to actually case Billy (iirc). Why would I do that and then drop off just when the wagon started to get serious?

This would be like classic scum distancing - generate a read which seems unaligned but get off when there's a chance of the lynch actually going through

I don't really scumread you ftr this just had me a bit ??

[Wooper]

something_skittery where are your reads @ atm

[Wooper]

That at me?

you and ss
I tried combining you into one person
it was unwise

[Wooper]

240/48 with 72/48 prods seems like an interesting decision but this is probably a convo for post-game

[Wooper]

half of the playerlist is barely playing.

hey I'm playing I'm just minimalist for fashion

[Wooper]

imagine if skitter was scum in a pypx/y game and we lynched her scumbuddies d1 & d2 and she solo carried for the win?
that wouldn't happen . . . right? that would just be silly . . . . . . right? haha~ ha

[Wooper]

hehe... heh... hahahaa...... hehehe..............

[Wooper]

If nom flips red then Sirfetchd is likely the last scum.

1665 was very weak reasoning for not lynching nom today. 1702 hints that he is scumreading nom, but he doesn't want to commit to it which is evidenced by his vote on me.

this is a good take and crossed my mind
if i wasn't voting nom i'd vote her here

[Wooper]

haaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaaaaaaa... taking a break from this manic laughter to bring you a reality check!

nomnomnom (6): AaronFrost, skitter30, Wooper, Flubbernugget, Luca Blight, Kerset

i was a pioneer of this wagon(ish) and everything she does makes me think she's more likely flippin red


back to manic laughter: HEEHEEEHEEEEE

[Wooper]

AaronFrost (4): Something_Smart, Sujimichi, nomnomnom, Xayah
Flubbernugget (1): Sirfetchd

Not Voting (1): PMysterious

@y'all hey vote nom

[Wooper]

please

[Wooper]

nom is
- high info lynch
- hardcore flailing at the prospect of death
- still really not doing anything towny
- claimed vt

convince me otherwise

[Wooper]

Xayah's flailing was townier than noms'!
I'm not sure how much of your meta I'm meant to know Sirfy

[Wooper]

what do you learn from me flipping green?

If you don't have a good answer you REALLY should unvote

latergame w flips this phase should be a spicemine

what do you you ever learn from mislynching anyone ever noms

[Wooper]

I'm thinking Flubs maybe has more chance flipping scum? He sounds really bad, moreso than Aaron. If I get lynched today I recommend a flubbs lynch first maybe

This is a conversation that should happen BUT not yet :{

[Wooper]

you can learn by the way people handle the wagon, for sure
there have been a LOT of reactions to your wagon this phase including a fall from grace from your slot at least one substantial counterwagon

you can't reliably find town via associations with other town
you can't reliably find scum via associations with town but it's a lot easier

given your lynch has been a BIG FACTOR of this phase i think getting the flip so we can look back over how people reacted to it is gr8.

operating on the basis that you're town for sake of winning arguments:
flubs is draft winner and lhf so is objectively a nightmare to cw late in the phase - you also haven't convinced me even slightly on aaron
given you're a vt and semi checked out from this game i'm finding the level of survivalistic flail from your slot a little disconnected as well. you've been heavily pushed and appear to think both scum are on your wagon. given you're not really in the mood for towning it up but believe you're pushing scum do you really not see how your ml helps?

[Wooper]

o hi adorable!! good news, i'm town
interesting pickup re noms/aaron, keen to see your take on their d2s etc. - you're absolutely right, a misread does not a scum make

[Wooper]

Adorbs got any takes on other stuff aorn?

[Wooper]

that was @jugglypuff but you're adorbs too obviously

[Wooper]

imagine if skitter was scum in a pypx/y game and we lynched her scumbuddies d1 & d2 and she solo carried for the win?
that wouldn't happen . . . right? that would just be silly . . . . . . right? haha~ ha

Motherfucker don't do this to me

dw it's a meme skitter is likely town here
she won the banner for losing her teammates d1 & d2 in a pypx/y setup and stomping the rest of the game tho

[Wooper]

I'm VT.

Unvote and vote in Aaron and Flubs, my lynch will lead to nothing tomorrow.

Nom you're being v like defeatist and not exactly survivalist but like ... bravado-y about the aftermath of you getting flipped and it feels v fake

This is a better way of wording it yeah; noms feels survivalistic but like she wants to look like she survivalistic maybe?

[Wooper]

Solving Sirftech relation is one more reason to pick nom over aaron.

#goodposting

[Wooper]

As I said it doesn't matter, when I flip scum you're going down lol

Do you guys think this is an actual slip from nom? I'm leaning towards yes, but even without this I still think she's scum.

don't think it's really valuable leaning into that it's too easy to just typo it tf up

[Wooper]

oh..... Aaron<3



I'd call aaron/noms nonzero but also kinda feel like scum!noms might want to to look like she's scum with Aaron rn lol

[Wooper]

SS reread that post in full

[Wooper]

she's like "wow don't lynch me haha lynch Aaron instead hehe you shouldn't lynch me lol"; it's surface survivalistic but doesn't actually fulfil the requirement of like... surviving

it does make sense that she's trying to look survivalistic rather than survive but it makes more sense that she's trying to look like she's trying to look survivalistic but maybe she's just not as self aware as I'm giving her credit for aaahhhh

idk we should lynch her today and if it's red just make sure sirf/aaron are deds before endgame

[Wooper]

hey that's the love of my life you're calling a pig. :<

[Wooper]

i'm not sure how well i'm meant to know/not know you sirfy

[Wooper]

more accurately am i meant to be pretending i don't know you well because anonymity

btw just noting aaron/flubs as cws
flubs is objectively a very silly cw for d2

allowing skitter/luca are like my strongest townreads the noms wagon feels prety well motivated - like ngl if there's scum pushing it i'd put it at aaron or flubs. :p

can you see evil intent in the noms wagon/counterwagons? or just the kinda meh resistance that's pinging?

[Wooper]

listmods know who alllll the alts are; i'm still gonna keep it lowkey unless you tell me to act otherwise
wrt meta i'm aware this is different from how you've played previously but it's also not clearing / an expansion of scumrange; just different

given aaron is softing TPR you sure you want him more than noms? could you just grab the last 10 posts from noms' iso and talk me thru how you see them coming from town?

[Wooper]

I'm seeing mentally checked out rather than defensive. It's defeatist yeah, but is that scummy?

idk maybe, Like I can see it esp with a scum flipped already.

My understanding of the mentality is that it is a two horse race at this point, and as one of the horses it's out of their control so it's either nom gets lynched or Aaron does. Not everyone has a predilection to play harder int hat situation.

My choice here is purely imaginary maths net gain calculations.

huh... i still think she looks like scum, i'm not all that interested in optimising outside of hitting vt>prs

[Wooper]

aaron is like
fifth place
i think it's kinda disingenuous to say he should be lynched because there's a lower probability of him being a town power role despite the fact he's softing being one vs. noms who placed second-last and has claimed vt and is borderline lolcatting

i'm not really following your reasoning wrt solving; it's kinda like you're just throwing thoughts out there

[Wooper]

In my opinion 5th spot is gives him fair chance to be powerful but in negative way. I am a little bit scared that he specifically asked for one more night ("until at least tomorrow") and it's actually N2.

not sure how much i should be talking abt my tinfoil theory quiteeeeeee yet but this has been noted

[Wooper]

1. the worst wooper

2. Sirfetchd

3. Sujimichi

4. skitter30

5. Something_Smart
6. nomnomnom

7. Kerset

8. AaronFrost
9. Flubbernugget

12. Luca Blight

13. Xayah
14. PMysterious Adorable


creature stylin this list is fairly difficult
on the plus side i don't think i'm townreading any scum hooray

[Wooper]

you can learn by the way people handle the wagon, for sure
there have been a LOT of reactions to your wagon this phase including a fall from grace from your slot at least one substantial counterwagon

you can't reliably find town via associations with other town
you can't reliably find scum via associations with town but it's a lot easier

given your lynch has been a BIG FACTOR of this phase i think getting the flip so we can look back over how people reacted to it is gr8.

operating on the basis that you're town for sake of winning arguments:
flubs is draft winner and lhf so is objectively a nightmare to cw late in the phase - you also haven't convinced me even slightly on aaron
given you're a vt and semi checked out from this game i'm finding the level of survivalistic flail from your slot a little disconnected as well. you've been heavily pushed and appear to think both scum are on your wagon. given you're not really in the mood for towning it up but believe you're pushing scum do you really not see how your ml helps?

this still applies, like her argument against her lynch is super disingenuous

[Wooper]

can i talk abt something that might be a tiny bit antitown

[Wooper]

power role tinfoil
particularly aaron/noms
this is on the proviso that aaron explicitly ignores everything i say on the subject

[Wooper]

i think noms projects more confidence wrt her towngame but this hasn't been towny confidence either

[Wooper]

alright

tinfoil #1: aaron is crumbing n2 vig
tinfoil #2: noms is crumbing scum venge

my tinfoils are so inconsistent i hate it

[Wooper]

3. Sujimichi

also you're townreading them this strongly?

they're the wildcard of the group
don't feel aligned with noms and i've kinda just generally enjoyed them more as the game's gone on

[Wooper]

i normally wouldn't say anything abt aaron but the "let me survive until d3" sentiment made me feel like scum would probably have picked up on it anyway : /

noms' posting is more like, generally-agendaey imo so it's probably best to just remove it from the game and let the cards fall if she is venge

@aaron again don't even acknowledge any of these posts


pedit: venge is only for lynch

[Wooper]

where are you at?

[Wooper]

i'm going creaturestyle rapidfire POE rather than a tiered readlist because i'm feeling special today

[Wooper]

I'm talking about Frost saying 'lynch Nom as she's less likely to be a PR', when on D1 his opinion was 'lynch Xayah over Billy, it doesn't matter who is more likely a PR'.

the goalposts have shifted
it went from {xayah, billy} to {nom, self}

sorry - i thought this was apparent when i suggested aaron is crumbing something

[Wooper]

where are you at?

is this at me?

i feel like if nom is a scum venge there's a decent chance i get venged here tho

yeah, at you. i know i got a readlist off you like yesterday just wondering how you're feeling at a "hey these are my strong townreads" level

agree your nk equity is high but it stays high regardless - with one scum alive tpr balance shifts trastically upwards so they actually need to shoot for TPRs. unfortunately it's a good trade-off.

[Wooper]

Night 2 Vigilante OR Vengeful - becomes a sudden death (assuming i'm wrong abt noms)
Perfectionist Vigilante OR 1-shot PGO (active) - pgo is sudden death; vig is w/e
Sane Cop OR 2-shot Redirector (already dead)
Conditional-Commuter OR 1-shot Watcher - watcher sudden death
Doctor OR Roleblocker - rb is an alignment cop; doc strong lategame
Universal Backup w/ 1-shot override OR Role Cop - nabd
Neighborizer OR Gunsmith - gunsmith results ++value
Jailkeeper OR Tracker - jk sudden death, tracker sudden death
1-shot Governor OR 5-ability JOAT - some joat powers are probably sudden death, don't remember

[Wooper]

@Luca fair point, I'd missed that he was the major wagon at the time.
still not sure it's all that inconsistent/scummy in practice - aaron defs wants noms dead so there's probably an element of agenda there regardless of alignment

"town agenda" checks out when you're so dead set on a read you need it dead with fire

[Wooper]

d

i kinda forgot to make my mechanical point here:

the value of reducing the game to one scum on d2 in this rendition outweighs the risk of hitting a scum venge imo

[Wooper]

i kinda crossed ss out then uncrossed him then felt guilty about it
he's the kind of person in this game i'd rather operate under the assumption is town until it breaks :{

pedit: if i have some time i'll iso suji and try to spit out something comprehensible
this is like, a 20% chance thing

[Wooper]

should be making me townbin

SCUMSLIP

[Wooper]

gottem

i think she's l-1

[Wooper]

nomnomnom (6):

AaronFrost, skitter30, Wooper, Flubbernugget, Luca Blight, Kerset

AaronFrost (4):

Something_Smart, Sujimichi, nomnomnom, Xayah

Flubbernugget (1):

Sirfetchd

Not Voting (1):

PMysterious

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-11-16 06:43:00)

Thank God.

UNVOTE:

Welcome to the game, I'll give you time to catch-up.

l-2*

[Wooper]

suji do you feel like you're accurately and comfortably sortable via your contributions so far or do you think there's an agenda in postponing the read?

[Wooper]

i'm townreading you aorn, and i think you're one of the harder reads via like general tonality and approach in my townbin, just by instinct. i can see why town would have reservations and focus on getting other slots right

don't think we need to have you at 100% confidence tbh

[Wooper]

so u think they could be svs?

i could maybe kinda see aaron/nom and nom/billy but i'm not sure i see aaron/nom/billy, if that makes sense

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. My 70% confidence is that one of Aaron/nomnomnom is scum. My 30% confidence level is my "tinfoil hat theory" that they both are. As I said, I like to always have a "tinfoil hat theory."

This is based on my current analysis of the game and it could change given more content from more people.

any chance of a tiered readlist suji?

sorry to ask; i'm not really sure i could do one rn

I can commit to this tomorrow. It's too late for me to do so today.

Sorry for the delay, Wooper. This is what I had from my notes as of post 1453.

Reads

Town Read: Luca Blight
Town Lean: skitter30, Something_Smart, Wooper, Xayah
Null-Town:
True Null: PMysterious
Null-Scum: kerset, Flubbernugget
Scum Lean: Sirfetchd
Scum Read: nomnomnom, AaronFrost

Kinda feeling like it's the vogue thing to have me at null scum at the moment.

I'm about to go to bed, but if people want a chat, lets make it happen. Because I have never seen a more unanimous "maybe this guy is scum but none of us are actually feeling it but maybe?" bc that's just mafia y'all.

Also I need to sort everyone too. So hold me to 1 on 1 chats.

I actually have you as a scum lean, not null scum, given your defense and interactions with Billy and his interactions with you. If not for nomnomnom and AaronFrost, I would be voting you.

@skitter i want this alive later; suji iso is rich with associatives and he's actually been pretty holistically considerate but focused reasonably well on slots he's suspected

his posting feels.......considered, rather than reserved. this feels like a weird distinction to make but it's made me not feel the need to isodive him and try to find scum motivation. i think he's just a thinker (see e.g. like davesaz and stuff)

he also doesn't really sound aligned w the other people i have more confident scumreads on :s

[Wooper]

hmm luca do you play offsite under Luca at all?

[Wooper]

fair enough, there's another Luca out there! nice
i like your solve. it makes a lot of sense

[Wooper]

lol I have to admit it's fun to see people scumread me for a thousand different reasons

if that doesn't ring an alarm bell that scum are pushing the easiest lynch by all means hammer me and feel stupid tomorrow lmao

Also Luca what the fuck is that about me and my ego about my scumgame and stuff? People trying to armchair psychology me or something damn

noms this is like
the wolfiest self-defence i've seen in months

[Wooper]

can you just like... not? there's an entire game to play with a straight bat here, where are your reads at outside of literally aaron

[Wooper]

Spoiler:

for a split second i misread this as part of the post and thought it was like a "go into lylo against me noms i double dare you"

[Wooper]

also wooper there's nothing I can say or do here to change anyone's mind, I can see they're in confbias mode so I'm just sitting here laughing at everyone just feeding their confirmation bias until I get lynched until they see I'm town it's a pretty funny feeling actually

kinda unrelated to a town wincon noms

[Wooper]

keep it up noms. again surviving is not your wincon. finding teh scumz is

i'll bbl.

[Wooper]

i believe i've made the joke about blindly sheeping you for a 43.75% chance at hitting scum d1 at rand

[Wooper]

@sirf

[Wooper]

I have softed which I mentioned earlier but if people want me to I can full claim.

d3 we might wanna massclaim tbh

[Wooper]

you know what
VOTE: xayah

[Wooper]

i can get behind that

[Wooper]

for the memes?

[Wooper]

VOTE: noms we had time for that, guys.

[Wooper]

She'll be here tomorrow and the gamestate is better for this flip. There's been too much contest to a noms lynch, I'm not comfortable letting it fly until close to deadline.

Sorry if you were hungrily awaiting Xayah's catch up before d2 ended but I don't see any meaningful reason to let this phase carry on just for it

[Wooper]

I think noms is the correct lynch today and there's a nonzero chance we'd swing a wagon onto Aaron who is heavily softing a valuable power role but largely being ignored yeah. :/ I also stand by this being a valuable flip.

If it's town and you're still mad @ me tomorrow I'm very happy to talk about my reasoning; if this is scum I'm treating myself as cleared.

[Wooper]

Just in case I eat the NK sirf does have a decent history of lolbussing like a champion. Not a difficult meta to deviate from for a free meta clear but please consider this when sorting him - if he thinks he can bury the hatchet in a scumbud to cash in on towncred he'll do it without blinking

[Wooper]

i believe i've made the joke about blindly sheeping you for a 43.75% chance at hitting scum d1 at rand

(working off a ~25% chance he's scum and will 100% of the time bus; ~75% of the time he's town and working off a read accuracy of ~25%)

[Wooper]

Hey guess what folks
Skitter you can answer this in as much detail as you want

[Wooper]

you know what
VOTE: xayah

She'll be here tomorrow and the gamestate is better for this flip. There's been too much contest to a noms lynch, I'm not comfortable letting it fly until close to deadline.

Sorry if you were hungrily awaiting Xayah's catch up before d2 ended but I don't see any meaningful reason to let this phase carry on just for it

Wooper you showed concern about contest around nom but you are the one who jumped off wagon in order to vote alongside her. What did you try to accomplish?
VOTE: wooper

@Kerset no votes on me for like 24 hours please.

[Wooper]

Hey skitter hey skitter

also adorable has too many scumreads don't worry too much

[Wooper]

Hey Aaron. Do YOU know why I'm excited : (

[Wooper]

i'll be more candid: skitter do you know why i am excited?

[Wooper]

i think adorable is town btw
i scumread pmysterious so i didn't see this coming
but rereading their posts overnight they feel so pure and cute

[Wooper]

ya someone did a good job last night

[Wooper]

ok w/e nobody noticed

xayah wasn't the scum kill, i'm n2 vig

[Wooper]

i think it's fairly unlikely scum also shot xayah for like, all of the reasons
so if there's a town doc/jk/rb they likely have a clear or a guilty

[Wooper]

tbh, that makes sense. I am both happy and sad you trusted my reading.

same :{
i subbed it as my first like "ok this is my tentative kill but i'm probably changing it", decided i wasn't shooting adorable, tried to read Aaron then realised he's too ott and will get lynched anyway if he's scum, then just decided she was A Good Shot

pedit: if you need to claim, we need to massclaim which means you shouldn't claim yet.

[Wooper]

imo if we massclaim we should claim up the draft order w the caveat that i think flubz should claim first

Flubbernugget 5, 7
Sirfetchd 8, 3
Something_Smart 9, 1
AaronFrost 10, 5
skitter30 42, 5
Kerset 1, 1
PMysterious 1, 4

wooper 3, 2

Sujimichi 3, 4
Luca Blight 4, 5

[Wooper]

Interesting.

Wooper did you notice my actual crumb or was the whole 'Aaron might be N2 vig thing' yesterday just a diversion?

both - i noticed you were softing TPR very heavily but i was distancing from my role yeah

[Wooper]

i kinda feel like d2 skitter from that game rn

this was a really good crumb and i'm super proud of it

[Wooper]

also think skitter letting that slide but not picking up on the soft is likely an anti-tpr hunting tell btw town equity is up

[Wooper]

me too.

[Wooper]

we probably don't need massclaim ya but a doc/rb/jk should be crumbing saves or guilties

[Wooper]

don't have time yet, needed to be here but i need to work, more

[Wooper]

i'd say she has a decent chance of being right on a scumread given she reengaged with the game via scumreading, +equity to {flubz,aaron} but nothing i want to lean into super heavily

i'd say she has a decent chance of being right on a scumread given she reengaged with the game via scumreading, +equity to {flubz,aaron} but nothing i want to lean into super heavily

flipped:

nomnomnom

(7):

AaronFrost, skitter30, Flubbernugget, Kerset, Luca Blight, Sujimichi, Wooper

AaronFrost (3):

Something_Smart,

Xayah

, Sirfetchd

Xayah

(1):

nomnomnom

Not Voting (1):

Adorable

colouring luca for strong unitownread:
i'd say she has a decent chance of being right on a scumread given she reengaged with the game via scumreading, +equity to {flubz,aaron} but nothing i want to lean into super heavily

nomnomnom

(7):

AaronFrost, skitter30, Flubbernugget, Kerset,

Luca Blight

, Sujimichi, Wooper

AaronFrost (3):

Something_Smart,

Xayah

, Sirfetchd

Xayah

(1):

nomnomnom

Not Voting (1):

Adorable

via basic reads noms wagon looks good but given greens (and the fact i fairly strongly townread otherduck) we probably need to consider the possibility that the wagon is filthy

[Wooper]

think aaron should be fullclaiming today - i want mr. smarties to weigh in on this

[Wooper]

*thumbsup* me too!

aaron please fullclaim

[Wooper]

nomnomnom

(7):

AaronFrost, skitter30, Flubbernugget, Kerset,

Luca Blight

, Sujimichi,

Wooper

AaronFrost (3):

Something_Smart,

Xayah

,

Sirfetchd

Xayah

(1):

nomnomnom

Not Voting (1):

Adorable

pedit:
@kerset

AARON

was the counterwagon, not xayah
xayah is a pain in the ass to lynch
aaron was heavily softing tpr
noms was claimed vt and an easy lynch to get thru + wasn't really enjoying the game much and wasn't really doing much towny until in an extremely survivalistic position which made her hard to read

so many reasons why i did what i did, zero ragrets

[Wooper]

*sobs quietly*

[Wooper]

can you link me to some of your scumgames pls aaron?
i suddenly don't value my job like AT ALL

[Wooper]

the decision to play hard/get better at scum comes from many places; i don't tend to use skill/engagement level as a reliable meta tell because doing so has a tendency to pass scum free wins

i was looking for another tell there.

at a meta level i'm leaning town on that claim

[Wooper]

The issue with UB is that scum are forced in to taking the useless cop bc it's a scum claim otherwise bc role cop is a trash role in this setup when you have a draft order and can generally guess who has what.

you think that's the case in this setup? with unibackup/rolecop+override?
dwell on this more and lmk what you think