Newbie 1962 | (Game Over)

[alimdia]

Hi guys,

Fish's different RV questions - did they ever get 'used' to deduce anything?

page 1:
ETL votes on Gilded for being nervous, but withdraws when learning they are new
Spartan jumps on bandwagon following ETL
GildedSun seems to be softclaiming?

Fish attacks ETL for 'pushing'
page 2: #33, Fish tries to shut down conversation about the gilded sun vote unnaturally
#41 Fish says 'your pushes have been on town so far' - slip? saying GildedSun is town for sure?

For ETL #47, isn't it a 2 to 1 trade? Since most likely someone will die in NKs?

ETl voted for GildedSun at 6:53am, saying that it was a real vote. They had a resolution shortly after and ETL retracted the vote at 8:13am. I realise our timezones
are most likely different, but thats still 1 hour 20 mins apart. In that time, Fish hasn't posted anything, and thus follows my argument.
In #58, Fish said that he read the other push as being on newb town before ETL backed off, in that case why didn't Fish defend GildedSun withint that time?
If fish wasn't online, then how is it possible that "he read the other push as being on newb town before ETL backed off". I think his was more likely
mentioned after the fact to cover up for his 'town push' slip in #41. Fish is an experienced player though however?

ETL townread
Spartan slightly suspicious
Farren seems to be making posts of substance, but those could be coming from both town and scum sides. (a big example is about understanding Spartan's timewarping)

Even tho Fish seems scummy, the speed of the wagon is even more suspicious (yoda and spartan)

No comment on Gdog's spot prior to replacement. After replacement it seems alright.
At some point, faust doesnt like the gdog wagon, doesn't defend it directly though
Yoda agrees with fish vote but stays on gdog?

[alimdia]

His reads on Farren/Former echo mine. I think there’s definitely one scum in there. As I said I can’t see them both being scum at this stage due to Farren’s vote on Fish. I don’t think scum places a vote on the partner that early on in the game.

Interesting that faustiv just sheeped Chibile's (the person I rep'ed) reads. Will take note of that.
Note that Radja's reads also align with ETL's but at least he wrote it out independently and didn't just say "Same as X"
I don't understand Fish's posts #196-200 within a span of 15 minutes? I think it is quite clear what Chibile was talking about. At this point after the first few pages, Fish has stopped providing substance.

I agree with the Fish/Farren scumteam possibility.

Geyde went from attacking Fish, to withdrawing it "reaching atp", and then basically ignoring fish afterwards. Something to remember!

So far I think my scumreads are: Yoda, Fish and potentially Geyde/Farren if Fish is scum

[alimdia]

is this just a condensing of the thread so far, this is a whole lot of iioa

Its a bit of both, but I'm not sure how that is 'only condensing' when I put my reads of ETL town, spartan's slot being slightly suspicious, and that Farren could be scum while Fish is scummy.
I will post again when I get off work regarding my read of Yoda.

[alimdia]

Yoda, how are null reads town leaning? Or do I have a different understanding of null?

[alimdia]

@ETL, can you link me that Yoda game you were talking about? So I can have a look too?

@Faust, I think only ETL stands out as a universal townread? Also, I've replaced chiibie
If a lot of people (say 4-5) think ETL is a townread, it seems more logical to think that he is town, because there is only 2 scum out there, rather than scum manipulating the reads.

Regarding how Fish is a universal scumread, I'm not sure if its really universal. There are people defending him, but if you look at his points, he hasn't really been 'trying'.
Look at his last 10 or so posts. He even ignored my question here and just said I was 'iioa' (which I had to go look at the wiki for):

Hi guys,
ETl voted for GildedSun at 6:53am, saying that it was a real vote. They had a resolution shortly after and ETL retracted the vote at 8:13am. I realise our timezones
are most likely different, but thats still 1 hour 20 mins apart. In that time, Fish hasn't posted anything, and thus follows my argument.
In #58, Fish said that he read the other push as being on newb town before ETL backed off, in that case why didn't Fish defend GildedSun within that time?
If fish wasn't online, then how is it possible that "he read the other push as being on newb town before ETL backed off". I think his was more likely
mentioned after the fact to cover up for his 'town push' slip in #41. Fish is an experienced player though however?

ETL actually thinks that Fish is town, but I'm not so sure about that. Because not putting in effort could be both town or scum tells.
ETL also thinks that Yoda is 'null' (using Yoda's term lol) after reviewing his last town game, which I would also like to have a look at.

@Faust, you said that GildedSun never asked Farren a question, but that has been proven wrong. Does that change your argument at all? Also, why am I scum?
At this point sitting alone on a GildedSun wagon isn't helping anyone.
Same with Fish being on me from before I replaced in.

@Farren, I'm gonna answer your question later after more reading. At this point, I'm not quite ready to put you on L-1

[alimdia]

Man looking through Chibiie's posts again (Actually there are a lot of them than I remembered and I'll be starting from #131.)
So in #131 he thinks that GildedSun is newb-scum. Only thing is that this could be newbscum or newbtown.

Note that in #135, with ETL painted at obvtown, Fish and Farren as runner-ups. Regarding that post, I don't agree with that post at all. Maybe its because that was on Oct 26 and it's now Nov 1,
but the structure of that is weird too.

Farren/Formerfish both runner-ups, I don't see much interactions in between them, but they're both talkative. Sitting in different wagons, while picking at the same target (faüstiv).

So I really like faüstiv and I believe that ETL, from an objective point of view, can be seen as obvtown.

Specifically this part where he says that he really likes faust, I can't tell if he meant he likes faust as a lynch, or faust as a town read. I'm choosing to believe the latter.



Looking through this, I noticed that Fish voted Chibs on post #227 for a reason that has since been proven wrong (ignoring direct question) and his vote is still on me.

I'm not sure if I agree with Chibiie's posting about people being alive on D3 or not, that just creates up WIFOMs, that is definitely not how I think.

[alimdia]

I've got some Halloween stuff going on today so I won't be around much. Just wanted to point out I'm happy with alimdia's content so far.

I have only skimmed Farren's last few posts but I'm likely voting there once I can find some time to properly read them through.

What part specifically about my content are you happy about?

[alimdia]

@Farren, who would you willing to lynch out of {Yoda, Fish, Geyde} if your Radja wagon isn't happening?

@Farren, in addition to #392, I'll like to add that in #245, Chibiie townleans Radja. I'm not too keen on that just because Radja posted a wall that aligns with what Chibiie said.
My playstyle is that I rarely have more than 1-2 solid town reads at a time.

[alimdia]

@ETL, I assume you were talking about Newbie 1959. I'll have a read about that later.

[alimdia]

Chibiie jumped on 3 bandwagons and wanted to speed up the game. That to me is not town motivated, especially when his vote on FormerFish which put him on L1 was made when Gdoooog was still in the game.

Um me = Chibiie.

At the end of that incident, the game was very stagnant. I also read Chibiie's other posts about wanting to die by D2 and what not, I see that just as a frustated player, and since I replaced him, a town being frustrated at the slow pace of the game. At that point, ETL also said that the gdog slot is not going to produce any useful information until they get replaced. Why go after an inactive slot?

By the way, I don't actually know why Chibiie got banned.

[alimdia]

I've been told that inactive slots get taken out because they end up hurting town. You can't read an inactive slot, so why keep it around for an extra day to not produce any info.

Is that the meta here? I thought there was other suspicious activity at the time

[alimdia]

See the problem with poking bears is that sometimes sleeping ones dont give a fuck who they swat.

Derailing from subject, will ignore, but not forget.

Failure to answer a direct question. Noted.

VOTE: Chibs

Disingenuous scum can get rope, and i can go back to sleep now.

Here's your answer, btw:

Post 27.

- RQS

Posts 28

- Interaction with ETL, not FF

/ 32 - 34.

- Indirect, objective view

Post 56 / 59 / 73 / 75.

- Indirect, objective view

This is what I call a "bruh" moment.

Yes, I was talking about you two, I've pretty much wrote you names in the same post :/
Gotta go, be back in a few hours.

You said we had no contact, direct or indirect, then list times where we had both. Gotcha, also ive been sick all weekend and have been playing on a limited basis. So yeah, in the last few pages you are correct, but you would be correct if you looked at any slot, not just the on you picked to harp on for your agenda to move forward.

Lets see fish's 'case' against me

CLaims Chibiee failure to answer direct question. Was actually wrong
Chibiee was replying to Farren, and he was saying most of those interactions were .... indrect and objective view.

Fish's different RV questions - did they ever get 'used' to deduce anything?

Not really, not enough people participated and its the first time im using them, so its more of a long game thing than a short one.

is this just a condensing of the thread so far, this is a whole lot of iioa

Was this asked for or are you just tmiing about your vote now?

Was this asked for or are you just tmiing about your vote now?

Yes I asked him.

he threatened to DDOS someone in another game

Game is ongoing. Please don't talk about it.

Have you got anything to add to the game? Any reads or anything?

You might be lynched so out them NOW

I'm not getting lynched.

Yoink

he threatened to DDOS someone in another game

Game is ongoing. Please don't talk about it.

Ok, i missed that. It doesnt feel as out of place knwoing that.

After that, the majority of his posts are ...fluff. Interjecting and asking a bunch of fluff questions. I don't see a case here at all?
Reading his ISO, before #196, 0 mention of chibiie (me) being scum, mentions of ETL possibly being scum, faust and gdog being partners. After #196, when Chibiie pointed out something about Fish, lots of fluff, straight up wrong posts, basically

tunnel vision on me

, did I mention lots of fluff?

[alimdia]

alimdia: are you happy with where your vote is? Your predecessor had his vote on fish when he left the game.

At this point, I'm happy with where my vote is. For some reason ETL thinks that Fish is just 'out of it' instead of being scum.
I'm going to have a look at the other people that haven't responded to my earlier Q's yet, but they said they were busy.

he threatened to DDOS someone in another game

Game is ongoing. Please don't talk about it.

Have you got anything to add to the game? Any reads or anything?

You might be lynched so out them NOW

Is this low-key coaching?

[alimdia]

Is this low-key coaching?

Why woudl faust be coaching me?

Coaching as in telling you to say something, not literally in terms of experience.

[alimdia]

Is this low-key coaching?

Why woudl faust be coaching me?

Coaching as in telling you to say something, not literally in terms of experience.

Why would my scumpartner coach scumme in the main thread and not just start yelling at me in the scum PT?

Scum has daytalk?
I'll need to re-assess again

[alimdia]

UNVOTE: Farren

I'm not so confident in what to think anymore.

The idea that scum have tricked us all seems more and more likely.
I'm confused as to why ETL defends me so much even though I've dug myself into a hole quite a few times.

Thinking that scum might have tricked some of us by appearing town just makes us go around in circles. Its much safer to assume that, on Day1, the people that do things that are good for town, and look town, are town


The thing is that ETL initially attacked you, but withdrew when he realised you are new. That, along with the good content of his other posts lead me to believe that he is town.
However, I am not a fan of him having like 5 townreads.

[alimdia]

VOTE: Yodavader

Nows the time to start a BW on someone.

Choo choo mofos

VOTE: Yoda

Scum for sure is this guy, hmmm.

I can't tell if fish is trying to make faust look scummy or the other way around with this interaction lol.

So @Faust, you aren't looking at Fish at all?

[alimdia]

Assuming SR = scum read, what I meant is that you follow faust around on wagons makes you guys look like a team.

At this point though, I only see individually scummy people, but not who the partners could be.

[alimdia]

VOTE: Yodavader

Nows the time to start a BW on someone.

Choo choo mofos

VOTE: Yoda

Scum for sure is this guy, hmmm.

I can't tell if fish is trying to make faust look scummy or the other way around with this interaction lol.

So @Faust, you aren't looking at Fish at all?

f
I'm looking at him, sure, just as I am with everyone else. But realistically, the three lynch options today seem to be either Farren, Yoda and FF and Yoda is the one I TR the least out of the three.

I'm not confident he flips scum but the player I want to lynch today is unattainable with so little time left in the day.

Faust you last said that you thought GildedSun+me = a scumteam. What do you think now?

[alimdia]

Reply got submitted early.

I assume you meant the player you want to lynch today is GildedSun, but you also lumped me and Gilded together, and now you don't think I'm scum, what does this mean for your read on Gilded?

[alimdia]

Who is the 'one scum' that you think you know?

[alimdia]

I've got some Halloween stuff going on today so I won't be around much. Just wanted to point out I'm happy with alimdia's content so far.

I have only skimmed Farren's last few posts but I'm likely voting there once I can find some time to properly read them through.

What part specifically about my content are you happy about?

@Radja, Still waiting on a reply on this

[alimdia]

Assuming SR = scum read, what I meant is that you follow faust around on wagons makes you guys look like a team.

At this point though, I only see individually scummy people, but not who the partners could be.

Where, other than the Yoda vote, have I followed Faust on a wagon?

While you wait for Radja you could answer this.

Sorry, What I meant to say is that you follow faust around on 'a wagon'. When I said wagons, I thought of you guys getting off my wagon and hopping on Yoda, but I now realise that's still only one wagon.

[alimdia]

I think Farren's play here is similar to this game where he was town:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=850

What do you think?

I was actually looking at that, and I agree that the style of play is similar. But I also note that Farren hasn't had a completed scum game, so while it seems like a point in his favor, its not huge. (He could be playing like that for both styles).

[alimdia]

Unoffical votecount:

With 9 living players it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Formerfish (3): alimdia, Yodavader Radja

Farren (2): , EspeciallyTheLies Geyde

Yodavader (3): faüstiv Formerfish Farren

Not Voting (1): TheGildedSun

[alimdia]

FYI Yoda was on L-1, then Geyde unvotes, then votes Fish putting him on L1... then unvotes and votes Farren.

Didn't you say we need to vote {Fish, Farren}? Isn't having Fish at L-1 better? Considering we only have 14 hours left.

[alimdia]

The struggle currently happening with lynching farren is a huge GD indication.

Alright.. let's see if we can get people back on this

UNVOTE: Unvote

VOTE: Farren

[alimdia]

It also helps scum with nk choices, since you claimed vt they know not to shoot you.

That could be WIFOM too tbh

[alimdia]

Hammer is coming.

Are we not waiting on Farren? Granted we only have 4 hours left..

[alimdia]

NK on Gilded is wack

Why?

Here are updated reads after the flip (etl still screams town): (With gildedsun's parts being removed obviously)

Geyde: Farren had detailed analysis on most people but remained neutral, so his interactions I am taking with a grain of salt.
But farren was fine with 'flipping' Gdog on post #118. From that, it is likely that gdog (geyde) is not his partner.
However, on the flip side, Geyde starts off his first post by talking about Farren and has Farren as a town read.
Later on, he says its either ETL or Fish. Also attacks Yoda a bit. Before moving to Farren at #475. But Geyde was the second vote, I'm not sure if he expected Farren to actually get lynched!
@Geyde, I'll look through more of what you brought up just now when I'm off work.

Spartan (Radja): Spartan also jumped on Fish, but unvoted at L1. Note that they can't be partners anymore! That's the beauty of flipping a scum.
Farren interaction with spartan spot, Its like publically trying to 'clear' Spartan. However, I was also given info that scum can daytalk, so Farren would have used the scum daytalk to fake that interaction.
Additionally Radja (spartan spot) was the 4th vote on Farren. So I'm thinking Radja is Town.

Fish: The fish gildedsun scum team is no longer possible, so Fish was no longer trying to stop discussion on the initial GildedSUN+ETL situation for scummy reasons. He is

probably

town due to ease of wagon reasons.

Yoda, Faust: Honestly I keep WIFOMing over these 2 slots. that I wanted to see what happened at night before I analysed these 2

[alimdia]

Maybe the kill on Gilded was because of their passivity (possibly mistook for PR trying to remain in background)?
That's what makes the most sense

This is what i took that kill to be. Its why I didnt want him to talk about it early in the game because he was painting a target on his back.

I get why people were looking at me so hard yesterday, and I assure you all it was played out that way completely on purpose, I needed time to do something, but unfortunately last night I wasnt able to accomplish my goal. There is only 2 ways that could have happened.

What is the second way?

[alimdia]

Maybe the kill on Gilded was because of their passivity (possibly mistook for PR trying to remain in background)?
That's what makes the most sense

This is what i took that kill to be. Its why I didnt want him to talk about it early in the game because he was painting a target on his back.

I get why people were looking at me so hard yesterday, and I assure you all it was played out that way completely on purpose, I needed time to do something, but unfortunately last night I wasnt able to accomplish my goal. There is only 2 ways that could have happened.

What is the second way?

That was a draw for someone to fake claim jailkeeper. I hadn't fully outed what my action was, just that I had one and that I had reason to believe I was blocked.

Scum could have come in and seen an opportunity to fake a jailkeep on me.

I don't quite understand why any scum would fakeclaim jailkeeper? At this point in the game, scum could only possibly know the setup is one of 3 possible setups.
Fake claiming with a counterclaim, making it a 1v1 is basically an autoloss for scum.
Potentially someone could do a town jailkeeper gambit, but that is an even bigger risk, because instead of making it a 1v1 it becomes a 2v0.


Anyway, that aside, theres still a small chance that fish as scum 'guessed' the setup and just took a risk, as others have mentioned.


What are your reads now Fish?

[alimdia]

Well then...

VOTE:

Fish

[alimdia]

I dont think the other mason should claim?

It makes 0 sense for ETL to counter claim mason as scum when 1 scum is already lynched. Plus ETL is almost a universal town read already.

At the moment its 1:1 counterclaim. I don't think it make sense to make it into a 2:1 counterclaim when it is clear that ETL is counterclaiming Fish.

[alimdia]

M

an looking through Chibiie's posts again (

A

ctually there are a lot of them than I remembered and I'll be starting from #131.)

S

o in #131 he thinks that GildedSun is newb-scum.

O

nly thing is that this could be newbscum or newbtown.

N

ote that in #135,

with ETL

painted at obvtown, Fish and Farren as runner-ups. Regarding that post, I don't agree with that post at all. Maybe its because that was on Oct 26 and it's now Nov 1,
but the structure of that is weird too.

Fine I guess I'll out myself

[alimdia]

EXCUSE ME. THERE IS NO SET UP IN WHICH DOC AND MASONS EXIST.

VOTE: FISH

For clarity, who are you claiming masons with?

Nobody:

Radja: Out another PR please!

[alimdia]

You mean for my sanity.

[alimdia]

Did Formerfish really just fakeclaim as scum here?

In a newbie game?

I'm sorry dude but I'm publically perma blacklisting you. I

cannot stand

players who lie as scum. Especially

in a newbie game

. What kind of example are you setting for the newbies?

You're lucky I didn't report you.

Yoda, I think Datisi was being sarcastic haha. However, if he was fakeclaiming as town, it would be pretty bad.

When you guys read the mason PT I thought there was a chance fish-town was trying to draw a nightkill by fake-claiming doctor.

Then I re-read the thread a bunch and concluded there couldn't really be any other scum candidates.

[alimdia]

GG everyone!

Unfortunately for scum, I think all the suspicious easy day 1 lynch people like gdog and spartan got replaced out and their replacements looked pretty townie.

[alimdia]

Was 41 a slip though?

Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one.

But I'll let Fish answer.