Newbie 1963 - Game Over

[Datisi]

Spoiler: Live footage of Datisi replacing into Newbie 1963 (colorised):

okay anyway right now it's 6:30 am I'm pulling an all-nighter AND I've got a class in like 2 hours yall know what that means
it's reread time

pedit: FF you're goddamn right

[Datisi]

oh right first i gotta UNVOTE: FF

[Datisi]

tbh not liking your fake-ass tunnel on page 1 so might as well VOTE: FF while i read the rest

also yoink

[Datisi]

Ooookay let's see here. (from most Town to most Scum)

Townleans:

FF

- I like the assessmnet in 118. Tone seems okay for now.

Gardenia

- reminds me of myself in my first game. Would love to see the list still! Was 150 vote random?

Null:

teacher

- nothing particularly AI from him so far.

Gyro

- does need more spice.

JacksonVirgo

- even tho their predecessor had an epic ISO...

Scumleans:

bugspray

- dislike your predecessor. Can you answer some questions for me please? (and get a profile picture k thx)

Marionette

- only posts are answering questions and a "random" vote on page 6?

Uncrowned

- posts 20 and 24 strike me as off tonally/overly-explain-y. 119 is overly fence-sitty on FF (and 134 doesn't help that much imo.) And your thoughts on gardenia are a bit unclear to me (134 vs 187)

Oh, this amount of Townreads is depressing.

VOTE: Uncrowned

but at the end of the reading for some reason my gut made me think that fish and gardenia are maf...

Can you please elaborate on this?

[Datisi]

Dare I ask why? (also same request about the profile picture to you too)

[Datisi]

UNVOTE:
yeah I'm not risking a lolhammer when the day's been less than productive so far.

[Datisi]

Certain players here strike me as having an itchy trigger finger, regardless of alignment. Would rather not.

[Datisi]

Ok, so how do you suggest we gain enough pressure on one wagon over another if we never let them grow and see what people do around it?

When do we push one to l-1 and go for a claim and then decide what to do?

We let them grow. But not to L-1 when a) we've seen a couple of players who seem to not give a toss either way, b) ending the day would leave us in a very crap position tomorrow reads-wise.

Certain players here strike me as having an itchy trigger finger, regardless of alignment. Would rather not.

You have him as a scum read so in your view someone hammering him would be a good thing, pulling your vote off makes it seem like you actually dont want the lynch to go through.

Yeah cheers he's a scumlean on page 8 in a game where the only interesting thing has been a toxic mud-flinging match between two players and where I'm SLing/nullreading 3/4 of the playerlist. That read is barely above random at best. No shit I don't want the lynch to go through.

[Datisi]

1) why did you vote for him?
2) please get a profile picture

[Datisi]

Alright, any reads on other players?

[Datisi]

Code: Select all

[post]134[/post]

[Datisi]

Don't worry mate, took me like 4 games to figure out the post tags.

#134/#187 (Gardenia Thoughts): I thought they were rather clear. I think she's new and trying to be helpful, but I didn't think Teacher's read of her FF Vote necessarily makes her Town. Like I mentioned in #187, Fish at that point was the easiest vote to make for anyone, as he had the most polarizing playstyle and had drew the attention to himself.

I say they're contradictory because you mention that you think she's new and trying to be helpful - which I'd take as a Towny trait, then placing her in your null pile.

[Datisi]

That's fair, sorting isn't easy.

Though, if you're hesitant on putting one person as Town or not so far, do you think it's a bit... Odd to ask another person for a full readslist?

#119: Yes, I'll admit I'm fence-sitting on FF. I'm cautious around these types of playstyles. More on this in a bit.

Care to elaborate on this?

[Datisi]

I don't necessarily agree that the loudest person is the easiest to place a vote on, but that might be a matter of differing opinion, not alignment.

Alright, I'm starting to like you. Yes, taking stances without waiting for others first is definitely helpful. Don't be afraid. Discussion is how Town works together and wins.

Keep up offering your opinion an explaining it.

Let's reorder reads a bit.

FF
Gardenia
Uncrowned
---
teacher
JacksonVirgo
Gyro
---
bugspray
Marionette

Okay, who's next.

VOTE: Marionette

Yo! Any thoughts about the actual game? The players?

[Datisi]

@Gyro, what's up mate? Got anyone here you like or dislike? Any reason why?

[Datisi]

Why's "logic" in quotation marks?

[Datisi]

Ay mate it's true early reads are often shit.

But if we're just gonna be sitting ducks then we'll get slaughtered. We can't just wait for things to happen. We gotta

make

them happen. Through interactions, questions, call-outs, anything. Waiting for the Night dwindling our thumbs will only hurt us.

Plus you're making a read on him this early. Is that read bollox too?

[Datisi]

I'd prefer it if you answered my non-random question.

[Datisi]

but at the end of the reading for some reason my gut made me think that fish and gardenia are maf...

Can you please elaborate on this?

Word of advice, don't look for teams yet. Look for individual scumminess. Associate-hunting happens either post-flip or as a Town's last resort. We're not there yet.

Especially not if two people just talking to each other makes you think they're mafia together.

[Datisi]

Plus you're making a read on him this early. Is that read bollox too?

Appreciate the sentiment Gyro. Tho I do find it weird that you're not calling me a bullshit-reacher since I have not one, but two posts laying out reads.

Unless I'm missing obvious sarcasm here...

[Datisi]

Flip is when someone dies (either by lynch or night-kill) and the moderator reveals, or flips their role.

I'm saying it's pretty useless looking for Mafia partners when we don't know one of them for certain.

[Datisi]

@bugspray

L-2 VOTE:

uncrowned

apparently wagons are good? also this player (who should set a pronoun so I can refer to this player more easily) seems to react weirdly to having "heat" in a way i slightly scumread

Can you please show me where Uncrowned reacted to heat in a way you scumread? I thought his replies to my pressuring were quite Towny.

And can you please answer my question?

but at the end of the reading for some reason my gut made me think that fish and gardenia are maf...

Can you please elaborate on this?

[Datisi]

@teacher

but I feel like the vote on Fish is the easiest one to make at the moment, since he's been the most aggressive player thus far.

This is very true. I know Fish well, which is why I voted him -- I thought he would be easy to wagon and I wanted to give people looking for lhf some "cover", being willing to scumread those who joined without independent reasons. Thats not how it played out, with only Gardenia joining. I got some tweaks from how Gyro kept his options open on the apparent leading wagons of Fish and me (even pairing us), but no other biters.

Anyways, now that I have outed the semi-reaction test, its time to
VOTE: Gyro
from its results, and for general lack of advancing content.

So, how serious were the "accusations" in 79, 102, 116, 127? And what do you make of gardenia's vote?

And semi-off-topic, I thought the quiet/lurky players were the easiest to vote/wagon?

[Datisi]

FF, I gave sorta similar reasoning for my Mari vote (why are people calling her Mario...), not gonna comment there?

[Datisi]

seeing people try to not be associated is something i'd sort of expect mafias to do to help setup for a later game situation where its lylo (lynch correctly or lose?)

@dai "MARIO-nette"

Yeah sure, not being associated together is good for the scum. But unless those interactions are done extremely poorly, you likely won't correctly spot them on Day 1 - and I know it sounds a bit sarcastic/offensive maybe, but s'just how it is.

And I get that, but Mario is a male name, you can shorten it to Mari which is both feminine AND has one letter fewer.

[Datisi]

@FF
Oh, you'll care about it.

@bugspray

Can you please show me where Uncrowned reacted to heat in a way you scumread? I thought his replies to my pressuring were quite Towny.

i'd rather not give anything specific so that he knows what not to do again

oops, I missed this on the first readthrough. And whoooo boy I do not like it.

VOTE: bugspray
Might wanna start singing soon.

@g...
I can call you "gard" or "garden" if you'd like. Or anything else really.

[Datisi]

Trust me, you will.

[Datisi]

I like being cryptic. :)

[Datisi]

Doesn't matter.

Bugs, maybe you should answer my question that you refused to earlier?

[Datisi]

Don't worry about it Uncrowned, I don't really care which one people use.

[Datisi]

I literally quoted it when voting for you. Refusing to state why Uncrowned was scummy.

So, if you didn't see that, and you refused to answer my question originally, why did you answer Uncrowned about it?

[Datisi]

Okay, what info did you get from it?

[Datisi]

Mate, here's the thing. If you're Town, you understand that lynching Town = very bad no good. And you only know for sure that you yourself are Town. Therefore, if people are trying to lynch you, you know it's a Town lynch incoming. You have to fight it.

Tell me, what happens if every single Town in game goes "lol kill me my death doesn't matter"?

[Datisi]

I’m glad accusations was in quotes - none of those called FF scummy, and all were about only one post of his. I didn’t (and don’t) understand why he outted how I use the rqs questions. To me it’s a bit lamisty (look ma, I do meta) in a way that doesn’t benefit. So I was asking him about it. Those were genuine, but not “accusations” at least to my understanding.

It's in quotes because I couldn't think of what other word to use but knew that "accusations" is wrong.

It's true none of those called FF scummy, but I felt a weird undertone there which could've potentially been setting up the stage for calling him scummy - for reasons I didn't think were scum indicative.

I was gonna wait a bit to see if you do, but then you made the post about "semi-reaction testing", so eh. Almost sorry I'm bringing it up again because I'm starting to feel like it's just NAI talk that's clogging the thread.

[Datisi]

But mafia getting lynched is a LOT worse and I feel like they have a tendency to heavily overreact any defend hard.

The way I look at it is:
Town needs two correct lynches to win.
Scum needs three mislynches to win.

Town only has one extra space than scum to be wrong. Every death counts.

[Datisi]

Actually...

I'm not gonna bother defending myself because I've never really been successful at it.

A day 1 mislynch is common on d1 and I don't mind being thee player who is dies like that.

But I don't think I feel confident that this town could win if I'm mislyched

so I'll try to defend myself for now.

How serious was this part of 332?

[Datisi]

I think the best way to move to game forward is wait

No. No, it's not.

Out of 9 players, we have only 5 that are somewhat active/commenting/giving reads/whatever. 5 out of 9. That is an atmosphere in which Town has no bloody chance of surviving.

Hell, you say you're taking the game seriously and that you think Town can't win without your help. Put your money where your mouth is. Comment on things. Discuss. Call people out. Show us that you're Town. Show us who you think is scum.

...and please get a profile picture.

[Datisi]

It's possible a newbie maf could post with partner in the private thread and think oh I'm posting that's good and accidentally neglect posting here

Usually I'd call this downright impossible, but I've had this exact same thing happening to me in my last scum game a couple of weeks ago... so I'll just call it very unlikely.

Ofc my last point is kinda metareachy

What exactly do you mean by metareachy?

And yeah, it would be nice to provite some actual examples. Like, do you see Gard making mistakes? If so, where?

[Datisi]

Oh, one more thing.

[Datisi]

Yoink.

[Datisi]

?i guess that makes me bottom?

:O

1. ?only if I can call you master?

1. Yes slave.

:OOOOO

Fun first game, eh?

[Datisi]

Gardenia - They seemed to be reluctant to vote at all at first, which doesn't inherently mean anything but then teacher stated that they wrote that out as scum.

JV, I don't get this part? How does this equate to a Gard TL?

[Datisi]

Throwing shade then immediately backpedaling when you realize the argument isn't that good/you get heat. Hmmmm.

Spoiler: 1

Okay some people who I think are scummy:
Fish because a lot of his posts are useless crap like what his midnight snack is. Also when I consider if I should lynch him I get this different emotional response inside me than considering other people. Idk how to describe it but it's like a "noooo don't" feeling. Just feels like a weird way to stand out I think he may have possibly tried to manipulate us into not wanting him to Lynch him for not logical reasons

Gard feels kinda like a mafia trying to hide behind newbie mask of innocence and isn't posting too often so that nobody can catch her making mistakes.

JV shutting up for this long is probably relaxing and he can take a break room defending himself. The lack of posting now that the heat is off is odd to me.

It's possible a newbie maf could post with partner in the private thread and think oh I'm posting that's good and accidentally neglect posting here which makes me think gard and jv are a bit more sus, although jv certainly does make a high magnitude of weird newb errors if that is the case

Ofc my last point is kinda metareachy

Spoiler: 2

Okay some people who I think are scummy:
Fish because a lot of his posts are useless crap like what his midnight snack is. Also when I consider if I should lynch him I get this different emotional response inside me than considering other people. Idk how to describe it but it's like a "noooo don't" feeling. Just feels like a weird way to stand out I think he may have possibly tried to manipulate us into not wanting him to Lynch him for not logical reasons

Gard feels kinda like a mafia trying to hide behind newbie mask of innocence and isn't posting too often so that nobody can catch her making mistakes.

JV shutting up for this long is probably relaxing and he can take a break room defending himself. The lack of posting now that the heat is off is odd to me.

It's possible a newbie maf could post with partner in the private thread and think oh I'm posting that's good and accidentally neglect posting here which makes me think gard and jv are a bit more sus, although jv certainly does make a high magnitude of weird newb errors if that is the case

This is just my opinion, but so far you've been saying a lot of things but not much has backing/doesn't really make sense. Most of these are based on "feelings"? :/

And you've come along back and just parroted the same concerns that other players had put forward. Now certainly it is a reasonable concern but don't you have anything more to add?

Yeah my accusations are weak as heck. In the moment I feel it but emotions are fleeting and I can't find the same feeling a lot of the time when looking at is posts

Spoiler: 3

VOTE: FormerFish
Reasoning in my last post

Sort of siding me me and trying to get on my good side when I'm a scummier looking town is a smart move as scum because it would mean that you just NK someone who is super town and then use that rapport in future days for more ML's

Thoughts?

p.s. if JV is maf then I think the tierlist would be a good nit to pick for clues about partner

Alright let me rephrase it: it's a very good play to make as scum which I guess isn't really super scummy

Sort of siding me me and trying to get on my good side when I'm a scummier looking town is a smart move as scum because it would mean that you just NK someone who is super town and then use that rapport in future days for more ML's

We've had people voting together earlier too. When did this thought occur?

p.s. if JV is maf then I think the tierlist would be a good nit to pick for clues about partner

Is that why you haven't done a tierlist yourself?

[Datisi]

yoink

[Datisi]

Gardenia - They seemed to be reluctant to vote at all at first, which doesn't inherently mean anything but then teacher stated that they wrote that out as scum.

JV, I don't get this part? How does this equate to a Gard TL?

Jackson can you please answer this for me ty ty

[Datisi]

I feel Gyro/Fish are a SvS and this might be a way of Gyro getting towncred but I also think Teacher/Fish is a TvS.

So currently my reads are FF and Gyro being scum. I left that wagon because I don't want it to be lynched yet.

Unless scum!Gyro truly honestly does not give a single toss about this game he's not gonna bus his partner like that Day 1. That naked vote gets no Towncred.

Discussion you had with Bugs a bit earlier about "you trying to buddy them" or whatever, you make anything out of that?

[Datisi]

However, I TL them because they really haven't given me a reason not too.

Have I given you a reason not to TL me?

[Datisi]

Datisi | Saladman27 - Salad seemed townie and

Datisi seems somewhat null currently

so I am townleaning that

Jackson, I'm also thnking you're wrong on FF. If not, I'll figure it out soon. But I really don't think FF is getting lynched today.

[Datisi]

Since I am set on TvS {Teacher, FF}. It's either SvS {FF, Gyro}

(meaning it could be Gyro/Teacher)

or SvS {FF, bug}

What do you mean Gyro/Teacher?

[Datisi]

I mean originally that if FF flips scum. All my SvS reads with FF were now with Teacher but I don't think that anymore

Okay, genuinely no idea what this means.

And yes. By default, each page has 25 posts. So posts number 25, 50, 75, 100, 125 etc. are pagetoppers.

[Datisi]

I mean originally that if FF flips scum. All my SvS reads with FF were now with Teacher but I don't think that anymore

Okay, genuinely no idea what this means.

And yes. By default, each page has 25 posts. So posts number 25, 50, 75, 100, 125 etc. are pagetoppers.

Words aren't helpful for me when I am half asleep, apologies

The only way I can make sense of 413 is if you'd meant to write "meant originally that if FF flips Town". Is that right?

[Datisi]

yoink

[Datisi]

Lol.

[Datisi]

Please get an avatar.

[Datisi]

Ohh boy. Okay, let's see here.

We've had people voting together earlier too. When did this thought occur?

Do you mind answering this? (And maybe commenting on my other thoughts from 390.)

[Datisi]

Datisi: pretty solid town to me tbh, doing

a lot of good scumhunting

that makes up the foundation of effective townplay

A lot of my posts (like 390) and my vote suggest that I think you're scum. Is that "good scumhinting"?

Gyro: seems to have made same earlier mistakes as me but even sooner

and now has effectively joined the scumunt

(cant wait till figure out how I do this).

The only thing he's done is 1) said he doesn't like Uncrowned, 2) said that if I flip Mafia he's Mafia too, 3) naked voted people. He's joined the hunt how?

Gardenia: still not fully sure, scumlean on her for sure because a lot of the same newb mistakes I'm making

So she's doing the same mistakes you are, and you're... SLing her for it?

JV: scumlean because might be bad town like earlier gyro and then me seems to be sort of digging a hole like i was earlier but way more spectacularly

Where exactly is JV "digging a hole"? What does that even mean?

[Datisi]

Ohh boy. Okay, let's see here.

We've had people voting together earlier too. When did this thought occur?

Do you mind answering this? (And maybe commenting on my other thoughts from 390.)

I read on the wiki that often mafia won't night kill scummy town to make future lynches easier. I'm saying that it would be beneficial to get on the good side of townies who appear scummy so that they are easier to persuade in future days. I was trying to say that it's possible that JV was doing this

Do you mind linking me that article?

And I did a pretty "similar" thing, I joined FF (who you believe is scummy) in voting you. Uncrowned (who I still don't know your opininon on) and teacher are voting together as well. No comment on either of those.

[Datisi]

its like that dril tweet "i will face god and step backwards into hell" or something. basically i feel like they're buckling under pressure and getting ever more contorted from that pristine townesque form into a mafia figure

Alright then, please show me where? Because I'm quite liking Jackson's recent posts. I think they're dead wrong, but I feel like they come with good intentions.

[Datisi]

Yes. Also I think it's sus that she hasn't excused her brief absence with the excuse from earlier on the earlier pages of the thread about exams. Restating something like that seems really town but if it's just an early lie a noobmafia would be more likely to forget that (although maybe an early lie like that isn't so noobish?)

You're gonna have to help me out a bit here, for I have no idea what you mean.

[Datisi]

yoink

[Datisi]

That was great

okay can people stop voting FF and vote for

actually

(cough bugs cough) scummy people

[Datisi]

FF, any thoughts on my posts v bugs so far?

[Datisi]

Are you gonna share?

[Datisi]

I mean, I was hoping I wouldn't be the only person here actively speaking against bugs, but okay.

[Datisi]

Speak of the devil...

Mind answering my questions, bugs?

pedit: uhhh
thanks FF
but considering there's only 2 votes there i don't think I am

[Datisi]

I know.

We need 5 for a lynch though...

Meh, we got over 6 days. I can be persuasive.

[Datisi]

...No, you read the forum topic and try to figure out who is lying. Do you think I'm just randomly throwing a name out?

[Datisi]

Part of it is explained in my 390. Basically, I think they're throwing shade at almost anyone, then backpedaling from that shade as soon as others don't follow them - to me it looks like they're looking for a mislynch target.

Bugs also gave a readslist in 438, which I felt was very... odd is some places. I asked him about it in 441, he answered to some questions but a lot of them are still unanswered, and I'm not happy with some of their answers.

I think there might be some other details I could nitpick if you want.

You interested in voting with me, Gyro?

[Datisi]

Conflicted? What on?

[Datisi]

Sigh.

There's two scum.
Also after you form your reads some explanations would be nice.

[Datisi]

Yoink.

[Datisi]

Alright, 444 and 445 will be there. Especially interested in your thoughts against JV.

[Datisi]

Teacher: lol dis kinda stupid but I just *feel* like he's safe maybe its the creepy mask

That's funny, as far as I know his avatar has the opposite effect on people.

Anyway, you say I'm reasonable and asking questions in favor of Town. You also say that you think bugs is safe. Mind elaborating on that? I have a couple of posts explaining why I think bugs is sketchy. Any thoughts on them?

[Datisi]

Teacher/Bug lol

You're half right. Touch the wrong half and I'll cut you.

Tone it down, FF. We get it.

[Datisi]

@bugs

re: 445
For that I think it's a matter of I didn't see the same good intentions you did and really didn't consider other people's intent when making posts while all of my posts sort of trying to have some kind of weird intent to judge stuff and trick the mafia which is more of me trying to be smart but actually being a complete idiot.

Going to look through his ISO now and see if anything catches my eye.

Yo, this gonna happen anytime soon? Generally you need a reason to be voting someone.

[Datisi]

@teacher

Bugspray: seems safe but also before him, chibee was kinda aggressive in not tryna get lynched (but also maybe that's that person's personality ahh im confused)

Also reading back on bugs, especially your posts, I do see where bugs has been kinda flaky in answering questions but I don't know that that is enough to mark him as scum? But like this is my first game so idk how scum ppl act really

Does this not count as ressistance?

Also, what's the case against Jackson? (Preferably after bugs answers my question above.)

[Datisi]

Don't harsh my vibe dudete. I'm playing my game.

Hey look, a new string of words whose meaning I've learned today.
T's a dangerous game to play my dude.

[Datisi]

Yoink

I dunno, being reckless isn't always a good strategy. But you do you I guess.

[Datisi]

woah what if my pred townread the entire scumteam aaghh

yeah wow wouldn't have that been wild if your pred was TRing the entire scumteam

[Datisi]

shut the fuck up cowbells

[Datisi]

sigh

[Datisi]

lmao idk
it was like
i felt you were the "kinda towny on tone but scummy on acts" kinda scum and then i dropped it because ??? there's no way i correctly scumread someone on page 8 right???

[Datisi]

Thanks for modding Micc! I was here for a short while, but it was fun.

[Datisi]

I feel like Dat was softing a pr

Yea, I thought so too. But there are town reasons to do that (cover/attract nk) in addition to scum (fakeclaim).

Oh cool they noticed

I’m fine w running her up to a claim.

Oh.

For the record, I was hoping there were gonna be wagons on people, as I was 100% ready to just lolcounterclaim the first scum who fakeclaimed something and hope the Masons know that I know. Didn't happen though. :/

[Datisi]

I thought you played really well Uncrowned.

+1

[Datisi]

teacher then eth0s but i kinda immediately knew as soon as i saw it that it came from a newbie scumteam

Well, considering you were town and the two of them were Masons

[Datisi]

Sorry if I was mean to you ducky, I was losing my shit when I realized you don't see the Masons