Newbie 1963 - Game Over
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Hi everyone, first timer. Let's see how this plays out.
I think a no lynch is a bad idea, I'd rather get as much info as we can out of the early stage of the game.
I'm putting my vote on someone who hasn't posted yet.
VOTE: Gyro Zeppeli
Also you're a JoJo character so you're already intimidating me, you stud you.- Uncrowned
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I've played Town of Salem Online and Ultimate Werewolf (Normal and One Night) in real life.In post 31, Saladman27 wrote:@Newnewbs Is this your first game of mafia ever or have you played before on different sites?
This is my first try at Forum Mafia but I've read some of the guides and stuff.- Uncrowned
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I'm assuming we're all already in the course, since this is your scum game.In post 46, teacher wrote:
I teach history. And I offer an elective in scum strategy. Prerequisite is outting your buddy though. Want into the course?In post 24, Uncrowned wrote:Lynch Teacher? Perhaps. I must ask him a question first though.
What subject does teacher teach? Not murder, I hope.- Uncrowned
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1: Like I mentioned earlier, mainly on Town of Salem. Played a bit of Werewolf/Mafia in real life as well. Haven't touched forum mafia besides this.In post 49, Chibiie wrote:Ok, let's break the ice a bit:
1) What is your experience with Mafia specifically? But long-play forum Mafia?
2) Do you prefer being a Townie or a scum? Elaborate your answer;
3) Are you organized in your head, but complete mess physically? Are you the other way around?
4) What type of food do you enjoy and why?
5) Time-zones. When are you the most active here?
2: I prefer Town when playing Town of Salem, but Mafia when playing in real life. I think a lot of it has to do with me being ultra competitive and loving to try and deceive the homies right in front of them. Telling the "perfect" lie and getting away with it in a real life game is so much more satisfying imo.
3: Depends. I like to think I'm organised, but if I'm being honest I think I'm pretty average. Not organised or disorganised.
4: I"d say I like sweet and salty things the most, a good piece of feta or some green grapes are always more preferable to me than savoury foods or bitter things. Couldn't really tell you why though, that's just my tastebuds man.
5: I'm Australian Daylight Savings Time right now, and at the time of this post it is roughly 12:17am. Since I'm on break from uni at the moment though, I'll generally be active from most hours of my day except for anything that's like... let's say 2am to 8am my time.- Uncrowned
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Just some thoughts over the last couple of things I've seen:
1: Fish's playstyle is interesting to me, aggressive town is something seen often, but by drawing attention to himself he could be letting his teammate fly under the radar (assuming he has one).
2: Read back a few pages. Teacher, you said you got a townlean from Gardenia. Why?
3: Would like to see some votes from the 3 who haven't voted yet, want to see some of their thoughts.- Uncrowned
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@Chib sorry you're not having much fun, man. I'm trying to help progress the game but not really sure how to do that yet.
@Salad I want to have more input, but there isn't really much for me to assess right now except for the interactions between FF/Teach/Chib, which I felt I already did by talking about his playstyle in my previous post. I'll elaborate a bit: I don't necessarily THINK he's scum since this might just be the type of player he is. Applying pressure could be an attempt to get a scumslip from someone else? However, I don't think the current interactions give a whole heap of information, hence why I wanted to see where some more votes get. People are playing very passively right now.
As for your SL on Gyro... I'm keeping my vote on him for a reason. He hasn't really said much in his few posts, I'd like to see him get a bit more involved. Not to be rude, but I don't think he's been helpful yet. At least with some of the others we're getting some information from them and when we see the lynch/NK we may be able to pull something from there. Right now Gyro isn't helping with that imo.
Your TLs are interesting. Gardenia does just seem new and eager to learn, I'd also like to see her list (speaking of, I think I'll do one of those too in a bit.), could be useful at this stage in the game.
I like your TL on Chib, I feel like he's trying to help the game progress, at the very least, so that's a plus for me.- Uncrowned
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I see what happened. I misread the "1 just replaced in" as "I just replaced in" lolIn post 120, Saladman27 wrote:Well, 1 just replaced in, another just got prodded and the last one is just making Jojo references. @mario, What do you think of the game so far?- Uncrowned
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I wanted to see your reasoning since I've got Gardenia still in my "null" category for now, at the time I hadn't really noticed anything from her that pointed me in either direction, personally.In post 159, teacher wrote:
Uncrowned, what did you get out of this? (I.e., both why did you ask and what do you think of the answer?)In post 125, teacher wrote:
Combination of entry/no-lynch vote and poking the active bear in the room with the FF vote. Is being herself without a filter, it feels.In post 119, Uncrowned wrote:2: Read back a few pages. Teacher, you said you got a townlean from Gardenia. Why?
As for your answer, it's okay. The reasoning makes sense, but I feel like the vote on Fish is the easiest one to make at the moment, since he's been the most aggressive player thus far.- Uncrowned
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#20 and #24 were my first two posts ever in Forum Mafia. I like to explain my thought processes and wanted to move Gardenia away from voting for a no lynch, and the 2nd one was just a play on Teacher's name.posts 20 and 24 strike me as off tonally/overly-explain-y. 119 is overly fence-sitty on FF (and 134 doesn't help that much imo.) And your thoughts on gardenia are a bit unclear to me (134 vs 187)
#119: Yes, I'll admit I'm fence-sitting on FF. I'm cautious around these types of playstyles. More on this in a bit.
#134: As I said before, I like to explain how I'm thinking. I may tend to ramble, but I'll try make things more concise. The passive plays and general inactivity made me want to attempt to put something on the board so the ball would at least start rolling a little.
#134/#187 (Gardenia Thoughts): I thought they were rather clear. I think she's new and trying to be helpful, but I didn't think Teacher's read of her FF Vote necessarily makes her Town. Like I mentioned in #187, Fish at that point was the easiest vote to make for anyone, as he had the most polarizing playstyle and had drew the attention to himself.
As for Jackson, my vote on Gyro was at the start of RVS and I wanted it on someone who hadn't posted in the game yet, if only to see if he'd react. He didn't. I'm keeping it on him since his posts haven't had much substance behind them imo. I don't think inactivity indicates scum, at least not right now. If that was the sole basis of my vote, I would've switched it once he posted a few times.- Uncrowned
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Sure. Usually I hesitate to jump on the person who is being the "loudest in the room" as I feel like it's the obvious choice, especially for people who COULD be evil as the louder people are more likely to toss out accusations and make themselves appear more guilty in the process. However, most of my experiences with these aggressive types in other social deduction games is they've usually been either town trying to catch people slipping, or they're a jester (obviously this role list doesn't include that, so that's not a worry here)
However, I want to keep my mind open to the possibility of FF being a distraction for someone else assuming he has one. I see my mistake though, since the only way we'd even be able to figure that out would be via a lynch. Sitting on the fence in that scenario doesn't really make sense. I was hesitant to push since I'm not sure how that sort of thing plays out here. I'll commit to reading FF as an aggressive townie, rather than a scum at this stage.
And you're right, it is a bit odd. My only logic behind it is that Gardenia had been given a TL by two people I believe at that point (Teacher and Salad, who was in your slot before) whereas I had been read as null at that point and hadn't really been asked for my opinions. I'm starting to understand now that it'll be more helpful if I take an actual stance on things instead of waiting for others to do so.- Uncrowned
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My reads thus far
Town Leans
Datisi- Liked his slot when Salad was playing it. Unvoted me when fast wagon occured, seemed like a town play. Questions and digs for info in his posts.
FormerFish- Aggressive townplay imo, made a good connection in post 118 between bugspray's former slot (Chib) and a past game they had played.
Teacher- I like the logic behind post 102 with the whole idea of "how does this benefit town?". I'm leaning toward Teacher/Fish being a TvT situation.
Gardenia- After reading back, I like post 150 - except for including Fish in the trio, since he voted Teacher way before back on Page 1. I believe the vote on me was when we started "redoing" the RVS.
Null
- Would like to see more activity. Don't really like his assessment of my vote on Gyro in Post 222 but I don't think that means anything.
Jackson Virgo
Bugspray- I don't mind this slot, since Chib was at least attempting to get things to progress earlier in the game. Fish's point about this slot in post 118 is a good one, but I'm not certain it's scum indicative.
Scum Leans
Marionette- Little input, random vote on Teacher seemed out of place. Admittedly, we were redoing the RVS, but Teacher had been one of the more active players up until that point, so voting him without saying anything is odd to me.
Gyro- Don't like his votes (Teacher, Gardenia) nor his reasoning in Post 140. Seems like a reach. Would like more reads and depth from his posts. A majority of them aren't helpful to town imo.- Uncrowned
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Definitely not trying to kill, just want Mario to give some insight.In post 283, gardenia wrote:
We're not killing, we're pressuring people to come out and talk (correct me if I'm wrong). Imo, it makes sense because no one wants to get lynched. If you're not going to do it, I might soon.In post 279, bugspray wrote:I think it would be more prudent to await a prod and potential replace than to just kill someone for being inactive.- Uncrowned
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I agree here in regards to the wagon and vote usage, even if the pressure was being applied on me it's still beneficial to town as we're seeing how people react.In post 292, Formerfish wrote:
Bolded- why dont you wanna be on a wagon? How are you going to get a read off him without that pressure.In post 290, gardenia wrote:^ I'm sorry but that rubbed me the wrong way. My vote was a random vote -I don't want to be put into a wagon.
VOTE: Marionette because you're still the personI want to talk to the most.
Italics- This is a tactic that new scum often uses because it makes it look like you are being active and are making a pressure push, but you are basically naked voting that slot and saying that you want them to post, which is why you voted them which defeats the purpose of the vote in the first place because now the guy knows why you are voitng him and how to change.
But until then your vote is being used, but in a way that is not likely to do any damage at all.
I think Mari is another one of those "easy votes" that I'm not willing to make just yet. That's the second time I've noticed Garden making one of these (the first was on Fish at the start of the game). Would like more of an explanation on that if you could, Garden.
Even though Mari's behaviour has been odd to me, it was only in a couple of posts. Not enough to go off of yet. I'd prefer our votes pressure someone who we know is around and will give their thoughts.- Uncrowned
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In post 358, gardenia wrote:@Uncrowned; Explanation: But your vote is on Gyro? But seriously, I don't see things like that. For example, if you look at my FF vote, I voted him to try and be funny cause he swung at me like 3 times. For Mari, it was just me saying "hey, will you come back and maybe answer my question?" I don't think it makes sense to analyse my votes without looking at the context behind them.
@Datisi and everyone; gard/garden/whatever abbreviation of my name is fine! Or you can call me...GD
Okay, I can see that. I just found your votes on them to be interesting.
As for my vote on Gyro, I've stayed consistent with that. At first, it was RVS. I've kept it on him since then due to his lack of helping town from my point of view. Mari was next in line, but I'll wait for a replacement, and bug is at least formulating a defense and giving his viewpoints now. I don't like how much pressuring it took for him to reach that point, but that might just amount to being new.- Uncrowned
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It's all good. Question for you though, since I just read through your ISO.In post 371, JacksonVirgo wrote:
Yeah apologies, just have been busy and I am currently a basket of sickness. Give me a bit to gather a full readlist of everybodyIn post 370, Uncrowned wrote:I will say I like bugs point about Jackson slowing down his posts once the topics of conversation changed. I'd also like an actual reads list from Jackson that includes everyone and gives more detail.
You voted for me when you replaced in, and in post 222 you said it's because I voted on someone for inactivity. Okay, I'm following you there.
Then in post 263 you do your reads list, with me in null and Marionette, the least active player in the game up until that point, in your scum pile.
That seems inconsistent to your earlier thoughts, mind explaining? You can do so in the updated reads list you just said you're gonna do, if you'd like.- Uncrowned
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I don't think people voting on the same person means they're trying to get on their good side. I wouldn't say myself/Teacher and Datisi/Fish are trying to "get close" or whatever, yet our votes are on the same people. Not sure if that's good logic to work off of.In post 378, bugspray wrote:Sort of siding me me and trying to get on my good side when I'm a scummier looking town is a smart move as scum because it would mean that you just NK someone who is super town and then use that rapport in future days for more ML's
Thoughts?
p.s. if JV is maf then I think the tierlist would be a good nit to pick for clues about partner- Uncrowned
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That's what I'm saying, I don't agree with the logic. I think it's too surface level.In post 385, JacksonVirgo wrote:
I mean from my pov, it isn't good logic and it seems to be biased against me completely. If they want to base their future reads of that it's fine, just they need to think the same about you/teacher, datisi/fish like you stated or the logic falls through the cracks.In post 384, Uncrowned wrote:
I don't think people voting on the same person means they're trying to get on their good side. I wouldn't say myself/Teacher and Datisi/Fish are trying to "get close" or whatever, yet our votes are on the same people. Not sure if that's good logic to work off of.In post 378, bugspray wrote:Sort of siding me me and trying to get on my good side when I'm a scummier looking town is a smart move as scum because it would mean that you just NK someone who is super town and then use that rapport in future days for more ML's
Thoughts?
p.s. if JV is maf then I think the tierlist would be a good nit to pick for clues about partner- Uncrowned
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This is what I'm thinking, it seems like an odd thing to point out. What I want more of an explanation of is this part though:We've had people voting together earlier too. When did this thought occur?
Maybe I'm crazy, but isn't this the opposite of what you'd want to do? Not that I think JV voting with you is valid reasoning anyway, Bug, but this seems off.trying to get on my good side when I'm a scummier looking town is a smart move as scum
I could be misunderstanding your point. Explain?- Uncrowned
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Didn't you also say you thought Gyro/Fish was SvS?In post 396, JacksonVirgo wrote:To put it simply, I voted because I feel they are a TvS with Teacher. The fact Gyro jumped onto that with a naked vote makes me want to get off that shiz as fast as I can.
Do you still see Fish as Scum then, or no?- Uncrowned
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I went back and found it, Post 373 is when you said it.In post 398, JacksonVirgo wrote:
I don't remember writing that anywhere but yes I feel Gyro/Fish are a SvS and this might be a way of Gyro getting towncred but I also think Teacher/Fish is a TvS.In post 397, Uncrowned wrote:
Didn't you also say you thought Gyro/Fish was SvS?In post 396, JacksonVirgo wrote:To put it simply, I voted because I feel they are a TvS with Teacher. The fact Gyro jumped onto that with a naked vote makes me want to get off that shiz as fast as I can.
Do you still see Fish as Scum then, or no?
So currently my reads are FF and Gyro being scum. I left that wagon because I don't want it to be lynched yet.
So you think Fish is scum but don't want to apply pressure onto him yet? I don't like the Gyro vote on him either, but if you think he's scum wouldn't you want pressure on FF?- Uncrowned
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You're chopping and changing a lot, I'm not sure what to make of you.In post 413, JacksonVirgo wrote:
Yeah could have formatted that better and now that I am writing this, I disagree with my own read on that.In post 412, Datisi wrote:
What do you mean Gyro/Teacher?In post 406, JacksonVirgo wrote:Since I am set on TvS {Teacher, FF}. It's either SvS {FF, Gyro}(meaning it could be Gyro/Teacher)or SvS {FF, bug}
I mean originally that if FF flips scum. All my SvS reads with FF were now with Teacher but I don't think that anymore- Uncrowned
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The Fish vote, unvote, and then revote.In post 418, JacksonVirgo wrote:
How so? I believe I've been dead set on TvS FF and SvS Gyro/FF for a while. Have I not made that clear enough?In post 416, Uncrowned wrote:You're chopping and changing a lot, I'm not sure what to make of you.
Saying Teacher could take FF"s role in the SvS teams you have listed, and then taking it back a few posts later.
Could just be mistakes or reevaluating, which is fine. I'm pointing it out because it's happened two times in quick succession.
Your TvS and SvS have been consistent, I wasn't referencing those.- Uncrowned
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I'm confused now. Do you think it or do you not?In post 421, JacksonVirgo wrote:
OH! Yeah that's what I meant. Since I TvS Teacher and FF.In post 420, Datisi wrote:
The only way I can make sense of 413 is if you'd meant to write "meant originally that if FF flips Town". Is that right?In post 417, JacksonVirgo wrote:
Words aren't helpful for me when I am half asleep, apologiesIn post 415, Datisi wrote:
Okay, genuinely no idea what this means.In post 413, JacksonVirgo wrote:I mean originally that if FF flips scum.All my SvS reads with FF were now with Teacher but I don't think that anymore
And yes. By default, each page has 25 posts. So posts number 25, 50, 75, 100, 125 etc. are pagetoppers.If FF flips town, Teacher is the scum from my pov.- Uncrowned
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Let me try make full sense.In post 426, JacksonVirgo wrote:I think FF is the scum. I don't believe teacher is, I thought that was what I was saying?
FF is Scum to you. But if he flips town, you think Teacher is scum instead. Is that correct?- Uncrowned
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I don't get these two parts. Gyro has been one of the least active players in the game and has provided no insight and made only naked votes. Fish, even if you don't agree with his playstyle, has pressured other players into giving explanations and has made some connections that seem feasible. I think at best Gyro can only be put into the null category due to lack of useful activity. I'm still susp of him though.In post 438, bugspray wrote:my list:
town:
* bugspray: duh
* Datisi: pretty solid town to me tbh, doing a lot of good scumhunting that makes up the foundation of effective townplay
*Gyro: seems to have made same earlier mistakes as me but even sooner and now has effectively joined the scumunt (cant wait till figure out how I do this).
**null:**
* teacher: null leaning town but still town imo, been helpful and making a lot of good points, possibly
* Gardenia: still not fully sure, scumlean on her for sure because a lot of the same newb mistakes I'm making
* Fuzanglong: slight scumlean because not helping but this is a less serious accusation and more of "applying pressure" or something
*JV: scumlean because might be bad town like earlier gyro and then me seems to be sort of digging a hole like i was earlier but way more spectacularly
**scum:**
*fish: start helping and acting like town
Also, where am I on this list?- Uncrowned
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...why would a townie want to be lynched?In post 489, Fuzanglong wrote:
I mean theoretically it can happen lol also then a counterclaim would be that why do you care? If you're a townie then dying would just be like a "ha in your face" moment would it not?In post 481, Formerfish wrote:
Incorrect. I care. It just isn't going to happen.In post 479, Fuzanglong wrote:FormerFish: at least recently, being vague, also is trying to convince ppl he doesn't care if he gets lynched or not (but then maybe he doesnt?) at least twice, once in pg 19, once in pg 18
Anyone who looks at me better come up with one hell of a case, cause I have the means to dismantle any case brought against me as scum
Assuming I am town and focusing on other slots is beneficial to town. Focusing on me is a red herring and will be proven to be a bad read eventually.- Uncrowned
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Why so quick to unvote after he answered one question? Isn't he on your scum list? Or am I wrong?
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I understand the premise here, although I'm not sure I agree with the second point. Bug has been trying to survive, more notably after he said he was taking the game more serious after his earlier interactions with Datisi.In post 510, teacher wrote:It feels like the attention has been focused on bug and that’s the momentum slot. And it feels like nobody has been pushing against that, which means everybody (including bugs presumptive partner) is ok with that. So I’m not.
The second line was on bugs response to the avi and other pressure - not trying to appease others to survive. I’m just not getting much survivalism. Again, not a great sign.
Well, yeah. But he explains why.In post 511, JacksonVirgo wrote:
You're pushing against it.In post 510, teacher wrote:It feels like the attention has been focused on bug and that’s the momentum slot. And it feels like nobody has been pushing against that, which means everybody (including bugs presumptive partner) is ok with that. So I’m not.
The second line was on bugs response to the avi and other pressure - not trying to appease others to survive. I’m just not getting much survivalism. Again, not a great sign.
Teacher/Bug lol
Isn't the opposite happening here? If anything, Teacher got a slight pressure from you and JV for making that post.In post 512, Fuzanglong wrote:
dis makes you sound sus bc what if you're bug's ally and you want the pressure off him and therefore yourselfIn post 510, teacher wrote:It feels like the attention has been focused on bug and that’s the momentum slot. And it feels like nobody has been pushing against that, which means everybody (including bugs presumptive partner) is ok with that. So I’m not.
The second line was on bugs response to the avi and other pressure - not trying to appease others to survive. I’m just not getting much survivalism. Again, not a great sign.- Uncrowned
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Who are you referring to, Teacher? JV and Gyro? Bug and Gyro?In post 534, teacher wrote:
Can easily be both, to be clear, and I have slight inclinations to believe that from cokes one post. Just think gyro is the more progitable lynch for the day.In post 533, JacksonVirgo wrote:
I only voted bug because they wouldn't answer my question, then they did so I unvoted. Gyro is more sus to me. Its either Gyro or bug from my current povIn post 530, Uncrowned wrote:Why so quick to unvote after he answered one question? Isn't he on your scum list? Or am I wrong?
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As I said in post 244 I didn't like his votes on Teacher or Gardenia and his reason behind the Teacher vote (post 140). My original vote on him was from RVS, I've kept it on him since my current mindset right now is "Does this post or person's overall play style benefit town, or seem town motivated?" since I liked that thought process when Teacher brought it up during the Fish/Chibi/Teacher interactions near the start of the game.In post 571, the worst wrote:Uncrowned and JacksVir:why vote Gyro? (Jacks, if you have reasoning past "not explaining his naked vote on ff" I would appreciate it)
I don't think Gyro has helped town much, I liked when he asked for Datisi's explanation of why he thought Bug was scum, since that was encouraging discussion and progressing the game, but that's about it.
He's not clear scum to me by any means, but I've got more suspicion to him than I do to others. Bugs made the "mason hunting" blunder earlier and has had some takes that I don't agree with and Jackson has seemed a bit jumpy in terms of votes and his reactions to things, but I could see this potentially being nervousness and/or inexperience. I'd also like to see a bit more out of Fuzanglong overall.
I will say out of the 4 I mentioned in this post (Gyro, Fuz, JV and Bug) I think Bug is the least likely to be scum out of them, he has this "stream of consciousness" style with his posts, like he's reacting to things naturally as they come and he's just giving us his thoughts as they pop into his head. It feels right to me, even if I think he's been wrong on a few occasions and could probably do with evaluating his stances a bit better at times.- Uncrowned
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Oh, I missed this. Thanks.In post 703, Formerfish wrote:In post 688, Formerfish wrote:Scum can easily sit back and stay off a wagon they know is on town and throw shade on townies who get on it.
I hammered the way i did because i needed to stay alive to be useful to town, acting like scum means that scum isnt going to shoot me becase they are going to try to mislynch me and use my behavior as the reasoning.
Its low hanging fruit and it is the easiest push for scum to make.
This makes sense with what I was saying earlier. Also, we were making points earlier in the game about how there was a lack of defense being made on Bugspray's behalf, with the logic being that scum were content with him being lynched. I'm seeing a similar pattern here with a few people taking jabs at FF.- Uncrowned
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I kinda follow you, but I still think it could be a factor? There's something about the pressure on FF that I'm not liking, especially from Fuz, since it's the first time she's coming out to say anything with substance against another player. Prior to this, she's only:In post 709, the worst wrote:Sadly hunting for mislynches / town by gamestate isolation ("they have no allies itt therefore they're likely town") doesn't really work after that tell has been discussed in a game. Gyro was that townie this game. We're gonna need to get more creative.
-Said you seem reliable.
-Voted on Gyro (second to last vote)
To me that seems like a reaction based playstyle that's giving me opportunistic vibes, since she only seems to jump in when something has already become somewhat of a consensus among the group (your slot receiving lots of towncred, Gyro picking up votes, and now the pressure on FF).- Uncrowned
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The reason I didn't bring up JV in 719 is because he's held the same stance on FF for a while now, it's more consistent than Fuz who seems happy to join in on things once other people have brought them up. That's how I'm seeing things atm.In post 722, the worst wrote:
just to compare: JV diving in with the vote here is a markerly more aggressive stance. JV also feels generally unapologetic for his read.In post 668, JacksonVirgo wrote:From my current point of view, FF seems like the scummiest person here; if you have a problem deal with it
VOTE: Formerfish
Normally I'd pin this is fairly town indicative but the "ig you have a problem deal with it" gives me like the tiniest bit of pause
basically I think JV is townier than Fuz which doesn't really come as much of a surprise to me.
I don't think Uncrowned/Fuz is a likely scumteam after #719 tbf. I think I had Uncrowned down to look at based off partner equity with Fish which I think I still want to be pretty wary of; I think I can say in a world where Fish is town I don't think Uncrowned has a particularly scummy scumbuddy
While I'm at it: sorry to drag you into the fray teacher, do you think I should be townreading Fishy? Not going down trust tell territory but if you think my d1 misread was stupid I'll shelf it.- Uncrowned
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I think JV is being honest, but I also think he's wrong. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and just say it's an incorrect read.In post 730, the worst wrote:problem w this is JV is being completely earnest and that still doesn't tell me anything further abt his alignment
I'm interested in Fuz's response to what I said about her, and also want to see what Eth0s has to say about the game. That slot has also been pretty passive iirc. - Uncrowned
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