Perfect Masquerade [Game Over]

[Gentleman 7]

It's been like 2.5 hours...wow, this is going to be an active game.

I've mostly skimmed things, so everyone's blending together a bit.

But my first thoughts are that I'm actually in favor of doing a vote for who to remove in pre-dance. I know that it will probably result in one person ignoring the consensus anyways and pairing with them, but I'm not really that worried about that. I feel like it would add accountability and give more information than not doing it. Obviously without more people agreeing to it, it's not going to get anywhere, though.

As for Gentleman 2, my advice is to pair with someone who's clearly town, but seems to be on weaker side in terms of solvy-ness. Because that would make your pair still a priority kill, but not quite possibly the biggest loss.

[Gentleman 7]

Also when ppl start predance by screwing around and spontaneously making bad pairings it makes the game suck

Pls don't pair before the IC pairs

^Yes please.

WoW I really dont like the ladies

Really? I'm feeling better about a few of them, while I feel murkier about the men.

Oh god two slips already :/

Am I the last one to arrive? My thoughts so far are that consensus townreads are probably the way to go, then ideally we can form pairs from within that group first. That way we have a better chance of crowding out scum into non optimal pairings with each other and with town who are harder to identify. Better than if we tried to just pick scum out individually, or all decide on pairings individually.

I've skimmed the game on mobile but the text is too small for me to actually read people's usernames easily which is a bit of a problem. So while I reread can everyone please give a list of your strongest townreads? It helps to have them in a list instead of scattered across pages.

I like L9, G6 (P-edit, just saw that one post, I'll have to recheck), L5, and you. I'm in agreement with that strategy--especially since it seems like no one else cares to try and hold a "vote". G4, I'd appreciate it if you were to retract your invitation (can you do that?)

[Gentleman 7]

Okay thanks L4, your thinking is starting to fit and make sense as a cohesive thing.

L7, you want a pseudo-vote, make one yourself. At the very least, if you think that type of vote is a good strategy, tell us which of the ladies you would like to see left out. Otherwise all I'm seeing is setup stuff from you, and it's like busy work. Talking about voting a lady to ditch but not doing it. Talking about basically the same IC-pairing approach that's been most favored. Talking about a pairing strategy L1 has focused most of her energy on. It's not getting much done.

And like hell should G4 retract his invite to L3 (not that I think he can legally?). Talk about muddying waters. L3 is being quite sensible about the invitation, too.

I've actually changed my mind on voting. First of all, no one else seems to want to play along. Secondly, I've realized making town-pairs is more important.

But the IC-pairing approach is a good one. Because we just need 2 T/T pairs who are universally townread in order to win. More helps, of course, but I really want to get 2 solidly town pairs.

Right now, the people who I'm considering for those positions are G2 (ofc), G6, and L9. G1, L1 and L5 also seem townish to me, but less than those 3 (and I have weird paranoid about L5). Although I don't want to push things on that yet, because I don't feel too confident and it's just the start of the game.

As for why I'm against the G4/L3 pairing:
1. I don't see any reason as to why it should happen.
2. I see reasons as to why it shouldn't happen yet:
- G2 has not made a pair and I think he should get first priority.
- I don't want people making pairs too early and G4's style has felt more spontaneous and not too thought out

I'd rather have a few really solid pairs than having everyone just go and quickly find their partner, otherwise we're going to wind up with a bunch of T/T pairs getting paranoid and leaving later on.

Anyways, I'm busy for now, I'll have more time later today to actually start doing stuff.

[Gentleman 7]

Ok, so I most want someone that I can just throw stupid amounts of shit theories at and see what sticks and sift through my mental avalanche.

If I could assign pairings the entire way down:
G1 - L2
G2 - L9
G3 - L5
G4 - L1
G5 - L4
G6 - L7
G7 - L3
G8 - L8

I think. I made that list just now, but that's kinda where my head is it.

To be honest, I don't really think that you'll get that opportunity for very long, if anything, since you're the IC. As for your pairings, I would kind of prefer to switch myself-L3 with G4-L1. I'm under the impression L1 is a mechanical player and I'm not quite feeling that that's a good blend with G4 (Okay, mostly it's that I'm also a mechanical player and think I'll do well with L1). Also kinda meh on G1-L2 because I'm liking G1 and not liking L2 as much. I don't really know how to swap things around, though. And then there's the next point, see below.

I would encourage people to match with people they don't agree with on everything to avoid echo chambers. Just as an FYI.

Ok so, does anyone have issues with me asking Lady 9?

Also I re-quoted the above because I feel like it is important. I kind of really want G1 and L2 together. I am against the G4/L3. I also feel like L5's deep wolf comment on L7 deserves scrutiny. At this point I would be encouraging L5 to be the Lady left out.

I think I missed the L1 thing about avatars so someone want to let me know what happened with that.

I'm not really against you pairing with L9, but I would prefer G6 right now, because both of them feel very town-solvy to me, and it would make the scum have to choose between killing that pair and killing you and your partner--essentially I feel like L9's a bit too strong to pair with you. I'm not really against it, but I kind of want to do like IC with 2nd most townread lady, and most townread lady to go with 2nd most townread gentleman.

I was actually wanting for you to be with L5 initially, but her recent posts are making me reconsider. If I think she's town, I'll be in favour of that pairing, though.

Here’s how I would order everyone.

Gentleman 1 - Lady 8
Gentleman 2 - Lady 7
Gentleman 3 - Myself
Gentleman 4 - Lady 3
Gentleman 5 - Lady 2
Gentleman 6 - Lady 9
Gentleman 7 - Lady 1 or 6
Gentleman 8 - Lady 4

If both Gent 1 and Lady 8 are town.
They will by far be the power house town needs to win.
The reason Gent 2 should go with Lady 7 is because Lady 7 is feel could be the most possible Deep Wolf so making the confirmed Town partners with them could help in the long run.
As for Gent 5 with Gent 2 I also feel another power house town can be made.
With both their play style’s together it can make with some good late game solving

L5, you wanted to talk, I hope you have time.

What exactly are you seeing with G5/L2? I'm not really convinced.
Also, why did you give me two options, out of all the others?
I do agree with G6/L9 for non-meme reasons.
Eh, do you like G3? I'm not really seeing that either.
And I disagree over pairing L7 with G2 with that reason. For G2's partner, it should be someone that is widely trusted by everyone, especially him. If we have a partner who's too scummy, it's going to result in either G2 leaving or people lynching them. Which could work if the partner is mafia, but to win, we really only need one surviving T/T pairing who is universally townread.


In other news, I wish I could stop feeling like I'm walking through cement when I go around on this website.

[Gentleman 7]

Actually, am I missing something?

When I think about it, isn't this just a case of finding one town lady to pair with the IC, and then...just no one else pairs up at all (Ideally we'd come up with backup pairs to organize at the last second in case scum tries to make a S/S pairing in the last minute). Although this sounds like it's starting to get really unfun.

[Gentleman 7]

Actually, am I missing something?

When I think about it, isn't this just a case of finding one town lady to pair with the IC, and then...just no one else pairs up at all (Ideally we'd come up with backup pairs to organize at the last second in case scum tries to make a S/S pairing in the last minute). Although this sounds like it's starting to get really unfun.

You would need three T/T pairs to make that work, because otherwise scum makes a S/S pair and then NK's a T/T pair.

Right. I just kind of feel like there's some way to get around this but I can't think of it. Although I guess no lazy unfun victory for me.

If both Gent 1 and Lady 8 are town.
They will by far be the power house town needs to win.
The reason Gent 2 should go with Lady 7 is because Lady 7 is feel could be the most possible Deep Wolf so making the confirmed Town partners with them could help in the long run.
As for Gent 5 with Gent 2 I also feel another power house town can be made.
With both their play style’s together it can make with some good late game solving

I’ll now be gone for the day.
Cya.

Thanks for just repeating yourself rather than elaborating. I'm kind of okay with not including her anymore. Guess I'll have to look at L7. G2/L7 feels alright of the top of my head, but I'll have to look at the ISO.

Also this game feels like it will be a bit painful if we keep having people replace every day.

[Gentleman 7]

Thanks guys! <3

How likely is it that scum will want to pair with their partners? Ive been part of a mafia/mafia lover pair in a lovers game and it was even more stressful and miserable than playing scum usually is. So my thought is they wouldn’t want it, but then someone made a post about pairing off before scum had a chance to pair off together, and now I’m wondering icky original thought makes sense. Is there some reason scum would want to pair with each other here?

In this case, it kind of depends.

If scum is being townread and there aren't that many townreads, I think that scum is better off not pairing together, because it would allow them to kill some of the more townread pairs and I think require fewer mislynches. But if they're not being townread, then they'd probably want to pair up. As that would prevent their partner from leaving on them, and deal with situations if there is a pretty much confirmed T/T pair.

I strongly think L2 and T6 is an incredibly useful pairing as I have already mentioned.

I am warming to G1/L5 as a pairing as I think L5, if town, is going to be somewhat similar to me come actual game days.

I'm not really seeing it with L2 as much, she's kind of rubbing me the wrong way. Also, in that case, who should L9 pair with?

As for my thoughts after looking through L7 some more, I think she's fairly town. Not my strongest, but I approve of L7/G2.

P-edit:
G6, he could be double-wifoming, though.

[Gentleman 7]

Oops, that should be for L4, not G6. Somehow got the names mixed up.

[Gentleman 7]

Personally, I feel outting townreads are a bad idea until dance time, but thats just me?

Wait, why is outing townreads a bad idea? I'm of the opinion that we should get a strong towncore--of course, this does depend on our ability to keep scum out. I don't really see the advantage of hiding them?


Also, L9, why did you accept so early?

[Gentleman 7]

Personally, I feel outting townreads are a bad idea until dance time, but thats just me?

Wait, why is outing townreads a bad idea? I'm of the opinion that we should get a strong towncore--of course, this does depend on our ability to keep scum out. I don't really see the advantage of hiding them?

Again, I think its better not to out town reads until we dance, as we have to factor the pairs. We can only scumhunt in ladies right now and theres the possibility that all 8 of them could be town.

All we can do is pick a lady to dance with, for whatever reason you want, and hope the person you scumread gets left out. In my case, Im hoping the lady getting kicked out is L8,L6, or L1. Im willing to keep L5 close. Maybe its her bubbly personality ^_^

I have a soft spot, who knew.

I thought I made it clear in those two posts imo

I'm more confused mow than I was previously.

Im scumreading L8. L1 and 6 are also good options based on activity.

Everyone else can live to see the dance. I explained why im willing to keep L5 above, but to be more specific, I think theres a possibility im reading her wrong at this time and am willing to spend time to get a better read on her.

Eh, I'm not really feeling the same way for L5--although to me it feels like both of you aren't really being explainy enough. L6 and L1 have been fairly inactive, but I'd rather L5 than them. I'm not scumreading L8 at all. I think a few of her posts have shown she's trying to look through people.

And regarding townreads, I disagree, we should be trying to make T/T pairs--I'd argue that this is even more important than partnering with someone you think would mesh well, after what happened to G2. It's likely enough that quite a few people won't have the same player they partnered with by the end of the game.

Who should I be dancing with? :V

I'm of the opinion that it should be L7.

I am baffled as to why Lady 3 is of no concern to anyone.

Sad to lose previous G2. He was a sweet boy.

I'm kind of worried about L3 myself. Although part of it stems from her avatar, as well as my scumread on L5. But aside from that, I don't really feel like she's done anything? Like less than me anything. And I don't do much.


Anyways, stuff about me. I feel like my stronger lady townreads (L7, sort of L4) are too towny for me to pair with, and right now I kind of want L8. I've changed my mind on L1 after G2 wound up getting replaced out.

[Gentleman 7]

I retract my earlier wooden feel on g7.

He’s cool.

G7 - why don’t you want to partner with someone too towny?

I don't feel like I'm too town read and what we need to win is to create as many strong T/T pairs as possible. If I'm scumread, it will potentially get someone who's well townread to die from being lynched or them leaving. I still want to pair with someone I consider town, to potentially help in solving, bit nit someone whow iso a consensus TR unless I am as well.

Why do people honestly think scum would ever pair up with scum?

Other than being a stupidly ballsy gambit, its against scum wincon, no?

If they're both town read, I think it's reasonable. But at that point we're already in trouble.

[Gentleman 7]

I retract my earlier wooden feel on g7.

He’s cool.

G7 - why don’t you want to partner with someone too towny?

I don't feel like I'm too town read and what we need to win is to create as many strong T/T pairs as possible. If I'm scumread, it will potentially get someone who's well townread to die from being lynched or them leaving. I still want to pair with someone I consider town, to potentially help in solving, bit nit someone whow iso a consensus TR unless I am as well.

Why do people honestly think scum would ever pair up with scum?

Other than being a stupidly ballsy gambit, its against scum wincon, no?

If they're both town read, I think it's reasonable. But at that point we're already in trouble.

Am I a joke to you?

I actually missed your previous post, sorry.

I assume this was about my 'unexplained' L8 townread? I mostly think that she's been posting from a town mindset.
But if you want me to explain more:
-I feel like she's posting naturally and isn't really holding back at calling things towny or scummy.
-I generally agree with her mechanical reasoning

(oh, no, I said 'mechanical' again)

-Her treatment on L5 feels like it came from a way that was real (not overly treating her as scum for her entrance, but gradually evolving in to a more scummy read)

[Gentleman 7]

I'm catching up now, I wound up falling sick yesterday. Haven't read anything in the last bit.

[Gentleman 7]

I think it would be good for me to have a partner early, and I think of the ladies, three is best for me.

So, my dear, I'd like to re-extend my offer.

Lady 3, dance with me?

Am I misremembering this, or did G4 like L3 all game, get replaced, and then the replacement went right back to liking L3 again? I haven't really seen what L3's done that's towny, and I'm garbage at identifying mains. I'm suspicious of this pair, but at the same time, I don't really think that either of them have enough town equity to be an S/S pair that will survive to the end.

I feel like my stronger lady townreads (L7, sort of L4) are too towny

I meant to ask about this earlier, why is L4 listed as sort of and not the other way around? I didn't think you had that much of a town read on me, and I thought that L4 was more widely town read than me in general.

I was bothered by L4 at the start, I didn't like her early posts as much. Whereas you've felt more natural and contributing to a way of making good pairings. Also, L4's kind of suspicious of me, so we'd make a bad pair, and I'm also a tad suspicious of people who are suspicious of me. Because I think I play scummy and I've had scum go after me before as an easy target.

[Gentleman 7]

Who are you looking to pair with Lady 2?

I'd be open to G6 but he doesn't have eyes for me. I've thought about G1 (needs to start posting again tho) and G7 (though I've questioned whether he's Town quite a bit) as potentially attractive partners.

What do you like about me?

I don't really remember that much about you, tbh. I'm going to have to look back at you after I catch up to see how I feel.

[Gentleman 7]

I'd argue that this is even more important than partnering with someone you think would mesh well, after what happened to G2.

What do you mean "after what happened with G2"?

I meant the replacement. Because how well you interact with your partner isn't as guaranteed if they're possible to slip up and post from their main, while their alignment will be the same.

[Gentleman 7]

Screw it, I don't want L5 to have the opportunity to snipe me.

Dance with Gentleman 5

I like this pair. G5 felt pretty townie (also, did he change his image partway though, or was he replaced)?

Still hoping for G6/L7.

[Gentleman 7]

G3 not asking anyone even though he's been around a lot feels weird. I don't like his I don't want to drag anyone down, can we make it to endgame really.

I worry that he's waiting to see if his partner is townread enough for a scum-scum pairing that will make them super strong scum pairing that they'll win in that end game stand off.

I mean the point of this game is to pair confident townreads with each other, so like, I only want to pair with someone I confidently townread if people also confidently townread me. It's common sense if you think ahead, but most people just aren't.

I was kind of back and forth on G3 in my head, up until this point. This feels like the same kind of thing I was thinking.

Also, from what I've seen in the first post, there's been a few more pairings made. L7, I'm kind of in favor of you being with G3. Although if you consider me to be more towny, then I'd be up to dance.

[Gentleman 7]

I'm liking L3 more right now. I don't really see where G6 is coming from with that attack on L7, she's felt pretty town to me consistently. I'll have to look into this again later, although it isn't impacting my opinion on my pairing with her yet.

[Gentleman 7]

So can you explain? What makes you think that 9 people in this game scumread me/L5 enough to speedlynch us?

I like you, but for me, L5 is probably one of the first people I'd lynch, although there's probably going to be a pair of 2 people who I find individually suspicious.

[Gentleman 7]

I'm not really against you pairing with L9, but I would prefer G6 right now, because both of them feel very town-solvy to me, and it would make the scum have to choose between killing that pair and killing you and your partner--essentially I feel like L9's a bit too strong to pair with you. I'm not really against it, but I kind of want to do like IC with 2nd most townread lady, and most townread lady to go with 2nd most townread gentleman.

I was actually wanting for you to be with L5 initially, but her recent posts are making me reconsider. If I think she's town, I'll be in favour of that pairing, though.

Gentleman 7, this implies you were in favor of Lady 5 earlier, what did you see there that made you think she was town, and what made you doubt that she could be town?

What do you think of her now?

I kind of felt like she was being too scumread relative to what she'd posted initially, where she was being suspected for small things like her posting style. It felt like it was someone who would be a bit of a safer target. I didn't really like her afterwards, because I've found her to be opaque and not really open to explaining things.

I'm not really a fan now because she doesn't really feel like she's engaging people directly.

[Gentleman 7]

Hello again, good citizens!

The volume of communication here is simply staggering, and I struggle to keep up, particularly while wearing this excellent and most efficacious mask, which, while handsome, leaves much to be desired for eye-holes.

I am entirely flexible with regard to a partner. I find most of the judgments discussed here premature. Either I am paired with a good and talented dancer, in which case I shall be delighted to waltz the night away, or I shall be paired with one who steps on toes and uses the wrong fork at dinner. In the latter case, I will be delighted to do the company a service and leave the dance with her. To wit, based on Gentleman 4's list,

Lady Lucky #7, will you dance with me?

I dont like this

^Indeed. Gentleman 8, could you like...tell me an opinion of yours? Any opinion will help at this point.

[Gentleman 7]

That is to say I would like to hear much more from Gentleman 8, and I, too, will be severely disappointed if this is all he has to offer today.

What, exactly, would you like me to offer? I'm not reading 60 pages of nonsense pregame.

I think very little of the 60 pages is nonsense, and arguably none of it is pregame.

So can you explain? What makes you think that 9 people in this game scumread me/L5 enough to speedlynch us?

I like you, but for me, L5 is probably one of the first people I'd lynch,

although there's probably going to be a pair of 2 people who I find individually suspicious.

Would you provide amplifying information on the bolded, please?

What I mean is that people who have lower town-equity are going to be more or less forced into pairing with people with low town-equity.

So there might be a pair of 2 people that I'm lightly scumreading (let's say L1 and G8), which I think is more likely to result in getting at least 1 scum killed compared to lynching G3 and L5 first.

[Gentleman 7]

Okay, all caught up now. If I missed a question for me, please let me know. I know I'm going to have to re-read through this at some point later in the game, but I'm not about to do it twice in a row.

I'll look at L2 later tonight, though I want to hear L7's opinions. I'm in favor of her partnering with either me or L3.

[Gentleman 7]

If I was scum I would have instantly accepted Gent 5’s proposal. Did you think of that?

This is scummy. She's right that accepting it would be scummy, but not accepting it doesn't make it town. I'm of the opinion that L5 should stay out, but L1 is also looking pretty bad right now. I think L6 should stay.

Actually, am I missing something?

When I think about it, isn't this just a case of finding one town lady to pair with the IC, and then...just no one else pairs up at all (Ideally we'd come up with backup pairs to organize at the last second in case scum tries to make a S/S pairing in the last minute). Although this sounds like it's starting to get really unfun.

How many of these games have you played before? This has been suggested often, but no solid method of executing this idea has ever been suggested.

This is actually my first time playing a dance game. Like any "good" player, I haven't looked at a single one of the previous ones for reference.

Personally, I feel outting townreads are a bad idea until dance time, but thats just me?

Wait, why is outing townreads a bad idea? I'm of the opinion that we should get a strong towncore--of course, this does depend on our ability to keep scum out. I don't really see the advantage of hiding them?


Also, L9, why did you accept so early?

Gentleman 7, you also seem disappointed in Lady 9 pairing with Gentleman 2, do I misrepresent?

I wasn't disappointed, but at the time, my top 4 townreads were:
G2
L9
G6
L7

I wanted G2 and L7 to pair up over L9 and G6, this way, the scum would have to choose between making kills in those 2 pairs that I considered to be roughly equal (assuming there's no deepwolf in there). I would have preferred a bit more discussion from L9 to see how other people she was townreading were feeling.

VLA until Tuesday

[/quote
Are you going to be around to accept any invitations? Otherwise you'll wind up being excluded.


Looking over L2, I'm going to be a bit suspicious, but such is the result when I'm not townread. I do prefer L7, but of the remaining people, L2 is the one I'd like most.

Lady 7, would you like to dance?

If you're not dancing with me, I would like you to dance with G3, I think he's town.

[Gentleman 7]

Fixed quote:

VLA until Tuesday

Are you going to be around to accept any invitations? Otherwise you'll wind up being excluded.

[Gentleman 7]

G7 is that a real proposal because it looks like you just said you’d prefer a pairing with l2?

Darn it, I hate these names. I was mixed up. I wanted you more than L2, not the other way around.

[Gentleman 7]

Yeah like

I'm not... spectacularly sure on L7. She's playing a very scum motivated game. Is it possible that she's town being weird? Sure I guess.

But gentleman 5 is mafia

Tbh, I've barely been keeping up with this game for the last couple of days, so I'm kind of bothered that the people I was liking are scumreading each other...like, is there a world where L7, G6, and G5 are all town? Because I feel like there could be, but most of my thoughts aren't really coherent from after Thursday. I'm more bothered by the fact that L9 has pretty much vanished. I assume there's no PT for partners yet, since I don't have mine.

But as for L7, why wouldn't she have accepted your invite if she was mafia?

Also, for G5, could someone please tell me if he was replaced or just changed his avatar? Because I was liking him back with his first one, then I sort of just put him to the side and didn't really focus on him but now he's controversial.

There are only two possible circumstances I can see where Lady 7 takes Gentleman 7 as a partner (if she's scum) over Gentleman 8. The first is that she is buddies with Gentleman 8, and the second is that her partner(s) already have matches or are gentlemen.

Agreed. I also think that if G8 was scum, he wouldn't go and ask L7 if she was also scum in that situation.

There are only two possible circumstances I can see where Lady 7 takes Gentleman 7 as a partner (if she's scum) over Gentleman 8. The first is that she is buddies with Gentleman 8, and the second is that her partner(s) already have matches or are gentlemen.

Well there’s a third possibility.
Gent 7 is their scum buddy and they want to form a SvS.
But the other 2 possibles are more possible.

I GTG do something. BRB.

Why would I pair up with L7 in that case over putting her with G3? I'm pretty out of this game and likely an early lynch. I don't see how pairing with her would do anything except make 2 scum die instead of 1 in this scenario.

G7/L7 - I'll be honest I was kind of hoping to be asked by G7 but water under the bridge. L7 I still read as Town. This is the only pairing where I'm hoping for the Lady to help read her partner for the game, buuuuut I'll admit I lean Town on G7 at the moment as well. Which is great! It kind of mitigates my disappointment, I hope the two of them do indeed find they dance well together.

Yeah, sorry about that.

I am furthermore concerned the distraction of G6 vs g5 is going to sidetrack us and allow slots like g8 to randomly endgame without doing anything. Especially if we all selfdestructed immediately. Even if you are right and g5 is scum, that really leaves town without a rudder and I do not have faith they could pull the rest out.

I agree with this (well, not the last part), and slowing down would also help me understand things a lot better.

To be honest, I don't really think that you'll get that opportunity for very long, if anything, since you're the IC. As for your pairings, I would kind of prefer to switch myself-L3 with G4-L1. I'm under the impression L1 is a mechanical player and I'm not quite feeling that that's a good blend with G4 (Okay, mostly it's that I'm also a mechanical player and think I'll do well with L1). Also kinda meh on G1-L2 because I'm liking G1 and not liking L2 as much. I don't really know how to swap things around, though. And then there's the next point, see below.

Why did you not like G1 and L2 at this point in the game?

I was kind of liking G1 back then, I think you misunderstood that. As for L2, it was because I like talking about mechanics and making optimal play, and I kind of feel like she was getting in the way. I also didn't really agree with her opinions on some people back then but I've changed my mind on that.

Guys.

This discussion has been going on for the better part of at least 30 pages. It's dominating the discussion. It's a distraction, and we're in predance, which means there's literally nothing we can do about it. And with all back and forth, paranoid theories and lack of cohesion, nobody's even going to listen if one of you are right.

So please can the group of g5/g6/l8 stop taiking about each other? Collect the stuff you want to say, wait for predance to be over, discuss it with your partner, and then once dance actually begins present your thoughts after the thread has had time to calm down.

Even if one of you is right about one in that group, there's still 2 other scum to catch. And if you're not right, you'l ve just allowed a big huge distraction for them to hide behind and make themselves look good by either ignoring it or jumping in.

I completely understand the desire to get your point out I really do, but step back for a little, please.

^^yes.

[Gentleman 7]

Okay, I'm only 20 pages behind this time.

Glad I'm not busy today.

[Gentleman 7]

For people who’ve played before - does mafia usually have a chat during precancerous? I’m guessing yes.

*predance

Nah, I think precancerous is pretty accurate at this rate.

Am I the only person who thinks G5 is scum

Because if so I'll just leave and wash my hands of the game

Okay, I'm going to look at him after I catch up. I'd kind of just felt like 'he was town' and sort of just ignored him for a while.

Why lady 5?

Why not?

This needs to get lynched at some point and I think that time is now.

[Gentleman 7]

Also, if anyone's asking me questions at the end of the thread, I won't be answering them for probably at least another half hour, depends when I catch up. If it's vitally important I'll refresh my pt with L7 every few minutes so she can let me know if there's something.

[Gentleman 7]

Lady 5, as your designated town leader I command you to stop posting

I didn't like you at first but I actually wish you'd be someone people listened to now.

[Gentleman 7]

Okay, so the next little bit is pretty much the same thing.

Can we lynch G8/L5 first?
1. They're both pretty scummy and I feel fairly confident at least 1 will flip scum (probably not both, though).
2. They're going to be lynched anyways and we might as well do it now. I'd rather have more information from that lynch first.
3. This will give me time to read and try to make an informed opinion that lets me sort through the noise a bit better?
4. This lets other people in thread cool their heads.

VOTE: Gentleman 8

[Gentleman 7]

Has Lady 7 given you a catchup? Cuz you should ask one from her as well

She hasn't yet, but yeah, I'll go ask her.
I'm going to go confer in the PT for a bit.

[Gentleman 7]

L9 where is your catch up...
L7 do you have any reads L4 do you have any reads

I have reads but I'm keeping them in the PT.
Still haven't looked at G5, and I'm liking L8 less for her posts recently. They feel like they're just to throw doubt around in an unfocused way.

If G8 is scum, I'd be okay with a L2 lynch after.
I don't see them pairing up if they're both scum because I feel like L2 could be town who can live for a long time and G8 would be more of a burden. Yes, it's possible that G8 randomly invited L7 and then L5, but I don't really know, especially when anyone could just read a couple random pages and decide to keep L5 around.

I'm bad at reading AtE, though I think L5 isn't scum, but I still don't feel confident in that. I think 1 person in that team is scum.

G6, was it you who wanted G5 to die first? Why are they a better pick over L5/G8 for being first?

P-edit. Oh, I just realized you weren't talking to me. Oh well.

[Gentleman 7]

I looked back at G5, and I'm not really seeing what you found up with him, G6?

Is it just that he's shading a bunch of people (I don't really agree with this, it doesn't feel too suspicious to me), or is it specifically L8?
I suppose I might have found that scummier if he was using this as a way to attack you, but unless I'm mistaken, he was going after her since before that as well (And I don't feel that great about L8 right now). But to me, it felt a bit overly tunnel-ish, but not really that terrible in that he's obvscum. And between him and L8, I'd rather lynch L8.

Also, what made you change your mind on G5? Or is it that you've just given up on him for now?


Everyone seemed to miss my vote on G8, but I'm there too. Just so people aren't miscounting.

[Gentleman 7]

@G6

Also, what made you change your mind on G5? Or is it that you've just given up on him for now?

Regarding the G1/L2 lynch, I think that's a pair that shouldn't go to endgame, but I don't really see how lynching them is any more advantageous compared to L5/G8, both of them feel like they're about the same amount of information. Except that I do think a G8 scum flip will increase the likelihood of L2 being scum. But also, I'm not really following the whole point behind lynch order. Yes, we'll get some information out of it, but unless something huge happens (like some S/S pair getting lynched or whatever), there are pairs that shouldn't be around at the end and we need to lynch them sooner or later. And I think sooner is the idea, leave more strong town pairings for the scum to kill from.

As for G8 -> L2 scum, I don't think it's guaranteed, although I feel like it would increase the odds of L2 flipping scum. And as for the thing about waiting for G1, I don't really see a scenario in which L2 was left out in that case. Like she would have been my pick at that point if L7 had refused me, and I was of the opinion that the general consensus was that people wanted L2 in enough for her not to be the last person and didn't really want L1 or L5.

As for G3, I didn't really like a couple of his recent posts but I don't think that he's scum.

[Gentleman 7]

I did a NK PoE.
The only world where G5 and L4 did is where at least one of L6/L9 is Mafia

I was going to say this:
Ok so that was depressing.

Anyway, the only way Town Wins is if both @G5 and @G3 trust in me.
As you two are the two I KNOW by PoE are not Scum. However 1 of L6, L4 and G8 is prob Scum.
The best option we have right now is to lynch G1/L2 and G7/L7.
If we do that, we should have a chance to win.

As G2/L9 should have been the obvious kill but not I got to rethink things.

I agree with this, but I think G3/L6 is likely town. L9 is almost certainly mafia, I don't see why mafia wouldn't have killed that pair otherwise. The only other option is that they have a S/S pair.

Regardless,

G2 should not leave

until there is at least 1 scum flip, probably 2. Because there's nothing that such a flip would gain.

The team is probably this:
G7, G1 and one of L6/L9.

I mean, I'm not scum but I saying that means nothing. L9 should be treated as scum unless we find a S/S pair. I can get behind a G1 lynch. However, it seems to want to go to endgame, or am I mistaken?

VOTE: Gentleman 1

We should win game if we lynch this and Lady 7 leaves dance.
Then from there we can PoE last Scum.

VOTE: G1, this pair should not stick around for longer than now.
However, if you guys want to get rid of us, do it by lynch rather than by leaving, because if she leaves then you just get a T/T flip and nothing else.

[Gentleman 7]

@G7
I don’t want to look like I’m saying “Your Lock Scum! Die!”
But like, in a world where Town G2/L9 wouldn’t be killed.
Is where scum wants to blame it all on L9 being scum.
Which is what your saying and you are defending L6.
Which also worries me.

Well, why did G5/L4 die instead of G2/L9? Because to me, I was getting kind of skeptical of G5 after his ending posts before intermission, although I couldn't exactly comment on it. I get that scum casting doubt on that pair is a possible move, but when that pair has the IC in it, I don't think it's really something to go for. Although, if a pair does flip S/S, then it will make it far less likely that L9 is the last one.

Could you explain how there is a world where L9 is town and isn't the NK instead of G5/L4?

[Gentleman 7]

G8/L5 has even more strikes against it than it did before, and it already had too many
G2/L9 probably would have died had L9 been town and L9 has not been impressive anyway
G1/L2 definitely can't live.

G7/L7 is the only other pair I would consider letting live, and they should probably be the other final pair apart from us.

I agree with this quite a bit, and the only thing that would change my mind on this is if L5/G8 flips T/T.
VOTE: Lady 5

I'm kind of getting a bit paranoid of L7 myself, but I'm not sure if this is something that could come from scum to have her flip between scumreading me and then taking it back soon after. I firmly believe G3 is town, L5 is actually probably town but I think that pair shouldn't stick around until the end and out of the remaining people, they should probably go first.

G1/L2 should go as well, but I feel more confident that they will flip T/S in some way, while this might flip T/T, and is going to be more impactful on the game if that happens.

[Gentleman 7]

Wow, those are both incredibly bad posts.

G3 talk to me about the why for 3880 when you get a chance. G7 towncase G3.

Please and thank you!

I liked a few of G3's posts and general strategy in approaching the game.
Early on, he's trying to focus on getting townies to pair up and make mechanically good decisions for the game, and doesn't look like he really cares about his own pairing.
He doesn't propose early because he's not in one of the strongest positions relative to some of the other gentlemen and is left to choose near the end of the game.
The entire pre-dance phase, he's not angling to set himself up with a survivable partner, which I think is one of scum's main goals. Now, in this case, most of the really town people already wound up leaving, but...I don't think that was something scum would have anticipated early on. As for first dance, I actually don't really remember, because I fell sick for one evening and the next thing I know, 2 pairs had both left one after the other.

It's not that he's definitely being coached, it's that he could be getting coached due to the large absence and mafia wanting him to do something to prevent his own death

What are your concerns about people positioning to go to the end?

This feels like a really weird fear to have relating to a replacement slot and a strange reason to lynch it.

I have already done a quick scan of what has happened since I was last here, and I feel like I should try to think things over more. I definitely feel like scum were primarily in the background during first dance. My prime suspects regarding this are L9 and G7 currently.
UNVOTE:
I think G7’s vote is rather concerning, why would he be interested in a double town flip when that puts the game in do-or-die mode? In fact the more I think on this the more I feel like lynching those two is a mistake.

It's not that I'm interested in a double town flip. It's that right now, my opinions on pairs are pretty much:
Least
G3/L6, G7/L7
G8/L5
G1/L2, G2/L9
Most
for likelihood to have at least 1 scum in it. And the reason why I want that pair dying is that I can see them winding up leaving in pretty much every case because I don't feel like G8 can really do anything to prove himself one way or another without being incredibly WIFOM-y. And as for why I want them to be first, it's because out of the pairs I like least, I think I would gain the most information from that, in the event that they did flip town. Like, if another pair flipped scum, then I'd just keep with the same lynchpool. But if they flipped town then I'd have to re-evaluate.

VOTE: Gentleman 7
I looked over what he has done and it looks quite lackluster. Specifically I noticed he seemed to be fanning the flames with the G6 + G5 situation before quickly bowing out, and, as already noted, he also shifted from his more likely town scum pair to his more likely double town pair, for a reason that rather awful at this stage of the game.

I would also like if someone who has been paying more attention could tell me who else seemed to be avoiding messing with the game’s direction during first dance.

Can you point out anything I did to fan the issue between G6 and G5? I've done nothing like that.

[Gentleman 7]

G7, what the hell information do you take away from a G8/L5 lynch if they flip T-T?

Right now, I'm seeing that in order for us to win, the pairs that need to go are G1/L2, G2/L9, and G8/L5. Right now, I'm assuming these are all pairs that are T/S, rather than there being any S/S pairs in there.

Among those, I'm the most unsure on G8, as he's hardly posted. And I don't believe I'm wrong on more than on 1 pair. Now, if they were to flip T/T, then it means that there's scum within G3/L6 and me/L7, or there's an S/S pair somewhere. So it would give more time for other townies to react and give their opinions on things, since they're not dead.

On the other hand, if we flip say you and G1 and it becomes T/S, it's not going to really change my strategy (same if G8/L5 is T/S). So I think that if I'm wrong, this gives me more information than doing things in the other order.

[Gentleman 7]

The entire pre-dance phase, he's not angling to set himself up with a survivable partner, which I think is one of scum's main goals.

Uhh... I'm pretty sure I was more interested than anyone else in finding a survivable partner.

What? No, I didn't see that at all. Like, it was most explicitly laid out in 1083, but was also kind of said in a bit softer manner beforehand.
To me, it felt like you were trying to make T/T pairings that may or may not include you, and you didn't really care either way.

Could you point out what you were doing that was the opposite of that? Because around that area was what really started solidifying things for me.

Waking up to nothing from g8 is disappointing.

I know that people want lynches to be held accountable, but maybe we should discuss leaving strategies at least among the pairs that have suspicions rather than hope we get enough lynches.

My biggest concern though is the g3 and l9 pairing because they’re not going to leave.

I mean this game is probably a wash and a loss anyway, but it’d be nice if we could forceone scum pairing out at least.

Why wouldn't G2 leave (I assume you mean him, not G3/L6) later on? But there's no reason for him to do that yet.

Soooo the game is pretty stagnant, we haven’t come to a decision for a lynch, and I do t think I’m in a town/town pair anyway. I’m seriously considering leaving tonight before I head to bed. That gives you guys 3 days and a couple flips to work with.

Don't, I will go instead.

I don't know for sure, I feel bad because what if I'm wrong and G1 is Town but honestly I do trust you L7 and I think G1 is more likely scum than G7. I would hate to be wrong though! I agree that the game seems like an uphill battle from here at best and it would feel really terrible to not even force out one scum but I do actually think G1 is more likely scum than G7.

Still want L9 gone. I guess if I'm wrong and G1 is Town then I don't even know, but certainly if he's scum that pair will have to go.

I hope you recover well from your cold.

Edit: I won't leave for the next 12 hours which I guess means I

will

leave tomorrow morning unless there's a very compelling reason not to do so. Sound good?

I just don't really know. I was suspicious of G7 early on, but then he made a couple posts I thought were better, but I just don't get many town feels there. He just doesn't feel town. The day of the first dance, I checked into the qt to say hi and that Monday was busy for me and I'd not likely be around. He viewed it but didn't check in himself, which I thought seemed like maybe he was nervous and didn't know what to post. L3 told him that I was going to give him an update (I'm not sure why L3 told him that really) and he said okay I'll keep refreshing the page. But didn't say to her that I'd already checked in and said I wouldn't be around, and he didn't ask me for the update I was apparently going to give him. I kept checking from work to see if he was around and wanted to chat and noticed the numbers kept going up, so I posted something about that. Quite frankly it was weirding me out because the views kept rising with no comments, so I wondered if mafia got the qt to look at for all their pairs. Anyway, he did respond to that with some reads, which sounded fine. (Though he did have G3 as a light dunno town read, which somewhat reads weird now with how confident he is on that read.)

After the town implosion, I posted a couple times about my reaction to the implosion, and he responded, but he threw in a hopefully you're town remark, which just felt weird in the post. Like it felt like when your neighbor is scum and they're trying to make it look like they're reading you and are paranoid but something feels off about that? '

We haven't really talked much in the qt, but it just felt off from the start.

See so that's nothing really tangible, just a kind of sense that he's trying to post what he thinks town him would post like rather than him being town and posting. Oh he also thought that G6 looked scummy because he thought L8 was probably scum but didn't want to leave the dance until second dance after he caught scum, which also felt like a bit of fake paranoia.

So yeah I just really don't know and maybe my concerns there are silly but it feels really unlikely I'm with town right now.

I didn't check in immediately, if that's what you mean, because I was reading through the thread at the time. As for L3, I don't really know why it would be useful to tell her you weren't around, and I kind of thought you didn't really care. I'd already read the thread, so I didn't need an update. I was just refreshing the page in case you happened to be around.

As for G3, he was on the weaker side of my townreads initially but he went up due to the fact that the rest of them all got themselves killed.


@G3, I'm curious about what's been going on in your PT, though. Do you want to talk about it?

[Gentleman 7]

Spoiler: me being survivalistic

I’m interested g3

If we hypothetically pair and are T/T (and don't die at intermission), do you think the odds are good that we can survive till endgame?

If not, I'd want you to pair with someone with whom you can survive till endgame.

What makes me most nervous about his approach is that he has hinted that he'd like his partner to be chosen for him

I never said this, I want other people's input but if I do intend to survive to endgame I'm not going to pair with someone I don't townread.

From the second half of that post, I basically want to know if people are going to try to lynch me or not.

If they can confidently tell me they aren't, I will probably offer to L7.

Yeah I'm not asking L7. She'd probably just leave on me if town.

Is it because you dont townread her, or because you both are scum?

I don't townread her as confidently as I would like (enough to bet the game on it), and I don't know how confidently the town as a whole townreads her.

Oof the survivability makes me want to throw up.

Also um... you realize that townies need to survive for town to win? If I'm going to be lynched anyway, it doesn't matter who I pair with. It only matters if people won't lynch me, and in that case I want a town partner who won't walk out on me.

You want to make it to endgame, im starting to think its because youre scum.

It's because of math. For any other pair to make it to endgame, we could lose because the gent in that pair is scum, or we could lose because the lady in that pair is scum.

If my pair makes it to endgame, we lose only if the lady is scum. That straight-up halves our chance of losing.

I'm not saying I necessarily should make it to endgame, but it's the most important thing to consider in deciding who to pair with, because let's be real. Probably none of the other unpaired gents are going to live to endgame. So if I'm NOT making it to endgame, it doesn't MATTER who I pair with. Endgame potential is the most salient factor in my decision.

You aren't townread enough for me/you to work out. I think it's pretty clear.

Honestly, not really. I just saw that you got G4 to change his thought process.

I havent changed mine, you are way too worried about staying alive. The only townie that should have that mentality is the IC. The rest comes from scum.

News flash.

Town doesn't win unless townies survive. I don't know if this has occurred to you.

You should actually read the posts. I'm not going to go through explaining the entire thing again.

I mean, I see these, and it just makes me feel like I'm not seeing it? Yes, you do feel like you're trying to get in a good pairing, but to me, it feels like you're not prioritizing it over making a strong town pairing, even if that doesn't include you.

VOTE: Gentleman 2/Lady 9

Look the chances of you being lynched as first pair out in this phase are low because I'm pretty likely to leave dance tomorrow morning. Then you'll get my flip, more importantly (given I don't think anyone has a strong scumread on me at the moment?) you get G1's flip. If G1 is Town and I screwed up, that's my mistake as much as anyone's for me leaving and I'm not exactly sure what the game looks like except I guess you'd have to put more scrutiny on people who pushed us as the first lynch for this phase?

But certainly if he's scum, by no means let L9 live to endgame.

I mean I agree with this, but I'm of the opinion that L9 should be the last scum to die.
And for G2, I just want to make sure you're on the same page here, that you should probably leave at some point, but not until at least one of the mafia is dead.


Anyways, it's quite likely that I'm not going to be around much longer, and I don't think trying to fight that will be very productive, given what time is left.
My opinions:
L2 Town. My townread on her has gotten better since 2nd dance. Although that's largely irrelevant, because...
G1 Scum. I just don't feel that good about him in general, giving a weak case on me in order to pivot away from his previous scumreads. He also doesn't really feel like he's trying to solve or move town forward.
G3 Town. I still think he's been looking out for things that benefit town, regardless of whether they benefit him or not.
L6 Town enough. I don't really feel that strongly on her compared to my other townreads but among the weaker people in each pairing, I think she's the towniest of them.
L5 Town. This is also because of finding out the original player's identity, which I feel a bit dirty about, but while her opinions had been bad, I think they had been honest and consistent with this player's meta.
G8 ??? I don't think anything at this stage can convince me one way or another and I don't really want to have the game hinge on a coin toss on if he's town or scum.
L9 scum. I don't see why scum wouldn't kill this pair if it was two townies.