Perfect Masquerade [Game Over]

[Lady 2]

Mask: donned

Hello, odd-numbered friends. Time for evens to join the party!

[Lady 2]

Eh, the smileys themselves feel a little overdone and forced, to me no more or less than the offer to tone them down. But I suppose some at the masque feel some attraction in the idea of putting up a different front than usual. Might just be neutral. But it does feel like one extra barrier to get through to read her.

[Lady 2]

I'm feeling just a littttle regret here. For a moment just now I thought I should have joined this game as Gentleman, you know, I'm in touch with my masculine side. Because if I were I could yolo an invitation to dance with someone? I'll be honest. The usernames we were given are bland, which, fine. There are no votes, no traditional RVS-like stage with, you know, votes. And I'm stuck as a lovely Lady with no concrete game-related, like,

offers

I can make for people to respond to the way I could do with a vote in a game where everyone has a vote. Like sure I like L9 well enough Town. She seems to have her head in the game. Though to be honest even though their avatars aren't different she and L7 are kind of occupying the same spot in my brain, so. Great. Wonderful. The rest is a mush of people toying with yes admittedly a mostly NAI thing from L5. Oh okay G6 for your last two posts you seem chill as well.

And actually Lady 5, if you're asking, I

do

find the cutesy smileys, punctuating nearly your every sentance, irritating. Saccharine. I'm interested to see if you toning it down a bit can help me read you and other people. Offer accepted.

[Lady 2]

Can we ask people to dance yet. bc like I am keen to do it early and do most of my reading under an assumed masons idea.

Oh man, you are like the only Gentleman that I'm pretty sure

shouldn't

yolo an invite?

[Lady 2]

I'm not a town leader type.

Could have fooled me. I think you might make a fine one. Maybe at an ordinary dance you wouldn't. But tonight you're wearing the mask. Why not go for it?

I do not like Lady 2.

Fair. I probably wouldn't like me either, and I know it, and it's really gnawing at me. Something isn't gelling. I want to be engaging here. Like genuinely I do. But it's not working, apparently. Like it's apparent even to me that I'm trying to say something but I get passed right by, like a ghost. Maybe it's posting while working, here and there, while other people are managing to have actual back-and-forth conversations.

Like L9, G3, L7, G6 are all sensible. L5 is ... fine. Can stay. L4 ... feels kind of like I do? I mean at the very least I'm sympathetic to her early frustration due to distraction and/or generic names. I'm not sure about her backing down immediately and completely after tbh a mild riposte from G3 early (I'm rereading, because yeah, I need to find some kind of foothold). Like, whatever it is, it's a firmer backing up than necessary but probably NAI. L8, kind of a low-key entrance as well? I'm not really getting much there. I do feel like trending Townread on L5 is a fake unpopular opinion? Like I don't think it was every truly going against the grain?

Mostly I want to know how L4 reads G6.

Oh, G4 also kind of lower bracket. Actually scratch that, I like him taking the offered mantle as Town leader. That's actually quite fine. Same with early offer. Actually even better. I saw the jokey pizza post and was wondering how long that shtick would take to play out. Moving fast on an offer was a strong Town move, like he stepped up to the plate and then actually delivered. Good choice of initial offer, too. L3 was in early but did and said little. G4's offer will offer some focus in a new direction.

I do actually like the broad strokes of the treanding-towards-consensus reads I'm seeing. I actually like all the active gentlemen fairly well, G3, G4, and G6 all Townleaning for me.

[Lady 2]

Fair. I probably wouldn't like me either, and I know it, and it's really gnawing at me. Something isn't gelling. I want to be engaging here. Like genuinely I do. But it's not working, apparently. Like it's apparent even to me that I'm trying to say something but I get passed right by, like a ghost. Maybe it's posting while working, here and there, while other people are managing to have actual back-and-forth conversations.

Okay, that's fair, I noticed that the posts you did have were complaining about Lady 5's use of smilies rather than engaging with the game and that concerns me.

Like L9, G3, L7, G6 are all sensible. L5 is ... fine. Can stay. L4 ... feels kind of like I do?

I do actually like the broad strokes of the treanding-towards-consensus reads I'm seeing. I actually like all the active gentlemen fairly well, G3, G4, and G6 all Townleaning for me.

Flipping this around, do you have any scumreads?

I mean, there are a few ladies and gents I'm kind of meh about but not strongly so, including L1, L8. Still skeptical of L4, not sure how much of that is being colored by a strong early Townread on G6.

Wondering if L4 can explain why she might be Townreading me actually? Every other direct mention of me between my last post and this seemed to fit well, if that makes sense (RIP Dannflor btw) but I'm still having trouble developing I guess a mental representation of L4 and her reads, including her maybe read on me.

L1, why are you focusing on predance strat talk instead of the material generated so far? In exchange I'll repeat my Townreads for your convenience: G2, G4, G6, L9, weaker read in that direction on L7. Had G3 down as well but I'm not sure it's really for anything besides him seeming comfortable and casual in tone and response, might just been NAI good vibes going on there.

[Lady 2]

Please don't read L4 off of my read on them, I'm not actually sure they're scum anymore.

Yeah I'm consciously trying

not

to let your read (at the time) on L4 color mine too specifically.

[Lady 2]

No, I was never 100% sure they were scum. There was a time that I was rather confidently scumreading them. I am no longer sure what my read on them is. Does that post really need to be asked?

Why are you repeatedly going after me forcing me to clarify things that really don't need any sort of clarification?

Because using imprecise language is bad? If you weren't sure she was scum, don't say you were sure, I don't really see what's hard about this.

??? tho

[Lady 2]

Okay thanks L4, your thinking is starting to fit and make sense as a cohesive thing.

L7, you want a pseudo-vote, make one yourself. At the very least, if you think that type of vote is a good strategy, tell us which of the ladies you would like to see left out. Otherwise all I'm seeing is setup stuff from you, and it's like busy work. Talking about voting a lady to ditch but not doing it. Talking about basically the same IC-pairing approach that's been most favored. Talking about a pairing strategy L1 has focused most of her energy on. It's not getting much done.

And like hell should G4 retract his invite to L3 (not that I think he can legally?). Talk about muddying waters. L3 is being quite sensible about the invitation, too.

[Lady 2]

Oh damn. Brutal.

[Lady 2]

I don't want to be too emotionally invested in my cuteness factor, but I have to admit it stings a little.

[Lady 2]

Oops, I meant G7, not L7, my bad

[Lady 2]

@Gentleman 7

, this was meant to be directed at you, I wrote L7 instead of G7 by mistake.

L7, you want a pseudo-vote, make one yourself. At the very least, if you think that type of vote is a good strategy, tell us which of the ladies you would like to see left out. Otherwise all I'm seeing is setup stuff from you, and it's like busy work. Talking about voting a lady to ditch but not doing it. Talking about basically the same IC-pairing approach that's been most favored. Talking about a pairing strategy L1 has focused most of her energy on. It's not getting much done.

And like hell should G4 retract his invite to L3 (not that I think he can legally?). Talk about muddying waters. L3 is being quite sensible about the invitation, too.

[Lady 2]

Unimpressed with L8 so far and I don't think it's because her strongest stance might be that she doesn't like me/my slot but staying open-minded here.

The only Gentleman I'd accept at this point is the Doctor aka Gentleman 6. All the other gentlemen have been lack luster, even Gentleman 2, the IC.

Interesting. I thought L4 made an interesting point when she responded to me - that it can be beneficial for a scum Lady to Townread many Gentlemen. This is signaling the opposite. G6 is one of the widest and strongest consensus Townreads at this early stage, and seemingly has eyes only for L9, who is another of the strongest consensus Townreads. And plenty of ink has been spilled on the topic of putting together strong T/T pairs for the dance. L8 is signaling that she'll be very choosy about the Gentlemen here, but I guess I'm not sure what that means.

I'm very meh about G7's response to me. He spends a lot of time repeating how important making T/T pairs is (which yes, fine). I generally like his Townreads, like, enough, but they're not breaking the mold too much. Hopefully the content he expects to produce later today will help me here.

G1 is great. Particularly feeling good about clearly a thorough and interactive read of the game to this point coming up with no real scumreads. Easy for scum to feel tempted to have reads on both sides of the table, as it were, but I think for various reasons the early game in this setup makes scumreads harder to generate for Town (not least the fact that the scum:Town ratio is on the low side compared to most traditional Mafia games).

Also hoping for more from G5, I don't have a feel for his yet at all.

[Lady 2]

Particularly feeling good about clearly a thorough and interactive read of the game to this point coming up with no real scumreads.

It's funny what contrarians so many of us seem to be.

Okay yeah, yeah, I know, I'm trying to explain what I liked about G1's entrance and this is part of it - it felt like an unforced read of the first ten pages and like he didn't feel compelled to force stronger-seeming conclusions. Like his response to the game as a whole felt like it matched what I've seen of the game as a whole as Town?

Mr not the 6th doctor. Can you talk about why you have such a confident townrwad on l8?

+1 mostly mentioning this for noting L7 asking a quite pertinent question that was on my mind while reading but without time to post.

G5 leaning town for short sharp reads which is something I usually will do as town this early in.

... I really need to go reread G5 I guess? He's one of the few here I still don't have a, like, mental representation of.

If both Gent 1 and Lady 8 are town.
They will by far be the power house town needs to win.
The reason Gent 2 should go with Lady 7 is because Lady 7 is feel could be the most possible Deep Wolf so making the confirmed Town partners with them could help in the long run.
As for Gent 5 with Gent 2 I also feel another power house town can be made.
With both their play style’s together it can make with some good late game solving

You mean G5 with L2 (me)? That ... well I guess that's an angle I wasn't expecting. Like, all he's said about me is that he doesn't like my slot (as of yesterday). Not sure if he's interested in me. That said

@Gentleman 5

, if you see this, how does this suggestion strike you? I did reread you ISO btw, and so little of your thought process is there that I really don't know what to make of it. Like I don't know what you want to do or see happen at this stage of the game, I don't know what information you want from people that would inform your reads and process, I just know that you have some reads that you were willing to state plainly as they came up. Your approach so far isn't really engaging other players in back-and-forth interactions though.

I would encourage people to match with people they don't agree with on everything to avoid echo chambers. Just as an FYI.

Ok so, does anyone have issues with me asking Lady 9?

Also I re-quoted the above because I feel like it is important. I kind of really want G1 and L2 together. I am against the G4/L3. I also feel like L5's deep wolf comment on L7 deserves scrutiny. At this point I would be encouraging L5 to be the Lady left out.

It definitely occurred to me that G1 was one of the few Gentlemen I currently Townread who isn't already showing strong preference for another Lady (or Ladies!) above myself, he was certainly on my mind. I do still like G4/L3 - what's the issue you see there? And honestly I was starting to like the 69 ship idea though I guess I like G6 enough that if he pairs with L8 I would trust him to help everyone read L8 as we go on?

[Lady 2]

To whoever or whatever fixed the site, I am nothing but grateful.

Actually feeling good on L4 right now. Her thoughts about which gentlemen might pair well with her and want her sound like she's honestly considering not just what's feasible but what she can work with usefully in the game from an open, uninformed position.

Blah blah blah on G7. I guess what he's doing now is furthering his goal of finding good T/T pairs and feels better than his entrance, which seemed almost ... perfunctory. And like, I do agree with most of his reads.

If both Gent 1 and Lady 8 are town.
They will by far be the power house town needs to win.
The reason Gent 2 should go with Lady 7 is because Lady 7 is feel could be the most possible Deep Wolf so making the confirmed Town partners with them could help in the long run.
As for Gent 5 with Gent 2 I also feel another power house town can be made.
With both their play style’s together it can make with some good late game solving

I’ll now be gone for the day.
Cya.

Interesting take on G5's small body of work.

Probably makes G5 and L5 unaligned.

??? this is enough to say G5 and L5 are opposite alignments? If so, can you show your work, I don't really follow.

VI

Lol, and here I was thinking you had typed IV until your exchange with L7. F for Gentleman IV, long live Gentleman IV.

I no longer want G6-L7, I now want G6-L2

What changed?

My already strong read on you got stronger.

? Is this saying that you have a strong Townread on me then??? Regardless, G6 is a grand old sport and I'm not nearly so choosy as to deny he's an attractive match, but I honestly would hate to break up the G6/L9 romance and so far G6 hasn't seen me as cute, which takes the wind out of the sails a little.

[Lady 2]

I guess I'll be honest.

Truth is I'm not entirely sure that she's town and I think that if she is I'll be 100% sure to see it In a hood and if she's not I think I'll see it as well.

Sensible.

L2:

L5 is talking about G5 pairing with L2 as a town powerhouse, which is from my understanding based off her view of the G5 that was seemingly without realizing what may be of the G5 to come.

Still not following I guess? Yeah G5 hasn't done so much that I would confidently predict him as a likely component of a strong powerful T/T pair late game, it's weird that L5 said basically that ... but I wouldn't go from there to a strong feeling that L5 and G5 cannot have the same alignment?

Pedit: Yeah that's a hella spicy take (specifically L7/L9 SvS), G6, but if you think that I might as well take a look.

[Lady 2]

I guess I'll be honest.

Truth is I'm not entirely sure that she's town and I think that if she is I'll be 100% sure to see it In a hood and if she's not I think I'll see it as well.

Sensible.

L2:

L5 is talking about G5 pairing with L2 as a town powerhouse, which is from my understanding based off her view of the G5 that was seemingly without realizing what may be of the G5 to come.

Still not following I guess? Yeah G5 hasn't done so much that I would confidently predict him as a likely component of a strong powerful T/T pair late game, it's weird that L5 said basically that ... but I wouldn't go from there to a strong feeling that L5 and G5 cannot have the same alignment?

Pedit: Yeah that's a hella spicy take (specifically L7/L9 SvS), G6, but if you think that I might as well take a look.

G5 mainslipped and is getting replaced. I think L5 would be aware of that if she shared a scum at with him.

You're ruling out TvT though?

[Lady 2]

You're ruling out TvT though?

No?

Okay than I just misunderstood what you meant when you said L5 and G5 were probably "unaligned" (which I read as "this is SvT").

[Lady 2]

This is why you should be Town leader, G6.

You know, it's the kind of position that should only go to someone who doesn't want it.

J/k but not really

[Lady 2]

If this was an actual dance, I'd be asking Lady 7.

same tbh

[Lady 2]

? Hasn't G2 been consistent about wanting to invite L9?

[Lady 2]

G5 being turbotown is definitely a hot take.

Sort of. G5 was pretty dang towny.

Walk us through it a bit when you have time?

G5 mainslipped and is getting replaced. I think L5 would be aware of that if she shared a scum at with him.

But in theory she could have been playing dumb.

But I am possibly the best person to have with scum simply because I don't get to end game, in ANY circumstance, because even with no scum lynches and a NK off me, we still have a misslynch available.

I mean.

If you are town and paired with town and scum went for, for example, a G6/L9 pairing first, we would want to bring you to endgame.

I don't think there's any sort of rule that says you may not go to endgame.

My personal rule.

???

[Lady 2]

Sorry, I've been feeling pretty miserable and trouble focusing yesterday and today. Now then.

Walk us through it a bit when you have time?

It's pretty hard to explain, I guess just prioritizing content over appearance? And I don't just mean the four word posts, I mean the focus of his posting stream was very much to push out as much content as he could without really explaining it or trying to make it look good.

Eh, but was it content for content's sake, or was there really any there there? It felt low-commitment and maybe low effort. I'm reserving judgment but it didn't feel like valuable content.

Gent 7 still feels not great to me as we continue in 975 because ... it's still more focus on non-player-specific content. It feels a lot like "contributing" without contributing, scum can spend time talking about oh should we talk Townreads pre-dance or not, oh well I'm of the opinion that this way is better, you know without advancing anything too specific in terms of reads, moves, etc.

Maybe I should just go for the lady who seems most likely to put out after the dance.

I enjoy conversations in, shall we say, a private and intimate setting.

I'd be more annoyed with G5 but his reads on the ladies mesh with mine in a way that, I don't know, it makes me feel more comfortable about him I suppose. G6 seems to have the opposite reads to me on G5 and G7. Interesting. I'll keep an open mind. Yeah, even the next post 820 actually seems good from G5. Moving on.

As for why you over L2, I was never intending on dancing with L2, that was a joke post.

Joke's on you, I'm in fact a very graceful dancer my dear sir. That said I'm still a little baffled that L5 was apparently not only really set on G5/L2 pair as some super strong thing but also seemed surprised when G5 didn't actually ask me just because she said a couple of times "you two could be lategame Town powerhouse, trust me".

Myself, I am open to G6 but under the circumstances I think he has other options that he finds more attractive. G1 and heck, even G7 are gentlemen I can see myself dancing with. G7's posts about not aiming to pir with someone too strongly Townread but still aiming to pair with Town made me rethink him a little ... I don't know, maybe my quibbls with him were just neutral playstyle stuff? It makes me feel better about him. For one thing, it's taking the setup discussion stuff that he's spent so much space on and applying it in a relevant way to himself?

Personally, I feel outting townreads are a bad idea until dance time, but thats just me?

Wait, why is outing townreads a bad idea? I'm of the opinion that we should get a strong towncore--of course, this does depend on our ability to keep scum out. I don't really see the advantage of hiding them?

Again, I think its better not to out town reads until we dance, as we have to factor the pairs.

We can only scumhunt in ladies right now and theres the possibility that all 8 of them could be town.

Is this a town-slip? All of dance games have been 1:2 or 2:1 for scum ratios.

??? no I think it's just technically true that all

8

9 ladies could be Town, right? I mean the rules don't say that the randomization gives any regard to player gender, right?

[Lady 2]

Lady 2, if you could pick three people to be left out right now, who would you choose?

I'd go with L5, L8 and ... L1 maybe? Or maybe G3? That's a little spicy, possibly the technically correct answer would be to leave out the three scummiest gents and force three of hopefully the scummiest ladies to be left without partners? G3, G8 and ... dann, no, I'm honestly willing to keep every other gent for now. Nah, go back to my first suggestion, leave out L5, L8, and either L1 or L6 I suppose. This sets up six ladies with eight gentlemen asking, with my hope to leave G3 and G8 with unrequited invitations.

[Lady 2]

I know it’s a pt not qt by the way I just like the way qt sounds better.

A throwback to a more refined time. You're a sophisticated lady.

also because u r a qt

[Lady 2]

I know it’s a pt not qt by the way I just like the way qt sounds better.

... something something something some flirtatious remark about you being a qt.

Lady 2, if you could pick three people to be left out right now, who would you choose?

Dann isn't here anymore. This comment was supposed to be funny, but I'm not perfectly certain how to convey that through text.

What makes you want to leave behind Miss 8?

Yeah that was a mobile autocorrect for "damn", RIP dann.

L8 ... has done a whole lot of nothing? Okay, she's not alone exactly in that regard, maybe L3 is comparable but she's interactive in ways I feel L8 hasn't been. It feels like she's said words but they haven't been words that accomplish stuff. And also looking back her sheeping of G6's reasoning on L5 (L5 being only jokey is something he thinks more likely to come from Town) is kind of icky for me, especially considering the proportion of L8's contributions that had to do with L5's posting style stuff early. I don't know, I see almost no townvibe stuff in her contributions and not even an in to question if more can come of it the way I ha've like with like G7. Like if G6 was still interested in pairing with her I'd be okay with that and maybe we could get a better read from that going forward. But even G6 isn't looking for that anymore and I'm happy for him to pair with L7 or L4 if he wants, there's plenty if utility waiting there.

[Lady 2]

Who are you looking to pair with Lady 2?

I'd be open to G6 but he doesn't have eyes for me. I've thought about G1 (needs to start posting again tho) and G7 (though I've questioned whether he's Town quite a bit) as potentially attractive partners.

[Lady 2]

Lady 8 has more posts than five of the other players, including yourself, most of which are game related and include reads and stances on players or genuinely add to the game in a productive manner, at least in my opinion. I don't really see where she's sheeping Gentleman 6 on Lady 5 as far as thinking that players making jokes is indicative of town, could you quote that post for me?
I get the impression your read on her is mostly based on your very early impressions, that you began to somewhat skim her posts and now you only have a shadow of a read on her, do you think this is true or false?

Why are we arguing whether smiley faces are AI?

I think that's an oversimplification of the discussion. But anyway, offer something else to talk about if you have a problem with it.

This is that post. It's not a strong "sheep" as such, but it's a lame coda to a series of mediocre posts from L8 mainly about L5's posting style. Okay L8 has more posts than me. So what? I don't think they contributed much and I think that they don't contribute much in a way that means scummy. There's a lot of pointless mild interjections, a lot of non-content content like this stuff about G5 "Townslipping" because that's not what it is. If her contributions look good to you, well, fine, I'm not seeing it. I've gone through her ISO. I care about evaluating and understanding this read. Yes at this point I'd say she's in my top three players I'd like to see left out. If one of my Townreads wanted to invite her and read her and work with her it might be a different story. But im not seeing that.

[Lady 2]

G5, you can invite another Lady and hope she accepts instead of/before L5 does, if you'd rather work with someone else, right?

[Lady 2]

Thirty pages in little more than 24 hours? This is going to be a wild ride.

[Lady 2]

Okay I'm trying to digest the content. L6's entrance is ... it's hard for me not to feel almost indignant about it, like she made three posts prior to yesterday evening and suddenly is loudly proclaiming how valuable her prior contributions were etc. But no, that isn't necessarily scummy. So - fine.

Of the one thing addressed directly to me, G4's 1464 - I think I explained it poorly; L8 engaged around the subject of L5's early tone/posting style stuff in an odd way, see below

Spoiler:

Lady 5 rolled scum tbh

<_> Lady 3 rolled Neutral.

Why would you make this post?

Because I wanted to joke around! “_”

It seems initially scummy and lessens your chances of getting asked to the dance because it seems like you're afraid of engaging in a read of a player.

It seems initially scummy and lessens your chances of getting asked to the dance because it seems like you're afraid of engaging in a read of a player.

Why does a joke suggest that she's afraid of making a read?

That assumes it is a joke.

Well if the post came off scummy that’s entirely your point of view! ^_^
I seen it as a joke.
I didn’t think they were serious of their read so I didn’t feel a reason to take it seriously.
^_^
My bad if it came up bad, don’t shade me though based off of that.
Every Lady has an equal chance to get asked out! ^_^

I actually don't think it's scum indicative but I feel like it could of been interpreted as one.

That assumes it is a joke.

She literally just said it was...

Nevermind.

I was referencing that if she was scum, it would of been a nice cover up.

It seems initially scummy and lessens your chances of getting asked to the dance because it seems like you're afraid of engaging in a read of a player.

Why does a joke suggest that she's afraid of making a read?

The question isn't directed at me, but I want to point out that it seems to me like Lady 5 is specifically avoiding making non-joke posts. She's ignored my more serious posts twice now. Joking is fine but she doesn't have any non-jokey content yet.

I interpret that apathy as townie. I think that scum care a lot more about getting town read than town do right now.

Partially correct. I would argue that strong scum hunters and players with huge ego care about getting town read more.

It seems initially scummy and lessens your chances of getting asked to the dance because it seems like you're afraid of engaging in a read of a player.

Why does a joke suggest that she's afraid of making a read?

That assumes it is a joke.

Do you actually think I’m that stupid to believe a Neutral exists in this setup?

Neutral is synonymous with null I would argue.

Why are we arguing whether smiley faces are AI?

Why are we arguing whether smiley faces are AI?

I think that's an oversimplification of the discussion. But anyway, offer something else to talk about if you have a problem with it.

Sure. Should we go for optimal pairings or just wing it?

I agree that town carry playstyles will also want to show themselves to be town quickly.

But I don't think that avoiding serious talk in the early game when prompted to is a scumtell and I would lean it and Lady 5 the other way.

I'm not used to anon games so it's taking a bit of time to get used to it. But yes, I agree with your assessment on Lady 5.

Okay that's a whole stretch of L8's early ISO - L5's joke could seem scummy, L8 doesn't

actually

think it was scummy but is interested in noting that it could be interpreted that way, agrees in a weirdly qualified way with G6 that apathy about making non-jokey content can be Townie, doesn't think that talking about smiley faces as AI makes sense, agrees outright with G6 that L5's play leans Town. Look, reading it, I don't think that doubling down on this as strongly scummy play from L8 is accurate. Looking back, yeah, I think calling this sheeping G6 is too strong a statement. I think the thing I saw here that bears noticing is that from several posts about L5's posting style and so forth I don't know what L8 actually thought of it. G6 stated simply that he would lean it Town. Only by the point that he said that outright did L8 clearly state her stance (that she felt the same, that it leaned L5 towards Town). I especially don't want to sit around arguing the matter strongly as before; L8 paired with G6, and like I said, I'm fine with that and interested in getting more from G6 about his read on L8 as the game progresses.

For reference, remaining Gentleman and Ladies:

Gentlemen 1, 3, 7, and 8

have no partners. Of these, only Gentleman 3 has posted in the last day and a half, and only Gentlemen 7 and 3 have posted in the last three days.

Ladies 1, 2, 5, 6, and 7

have no partners. Of these, all have posted in the last 24 hours, with the exception of Lady 1 who hasn't posted in four days.

If your name was listed here, I'm really interested to here your thoughts on prospective partners or if you've already explained that, why you've been pushing for said partner (with the exception of Gentleman 3). Gentlemen 3 seems to be a hot commodity for the Ladies, am I wrong?

I'd probably take G3 if asked but I'd want to do a focused read before accepting unless that was absolutely impossible. I'd prefer G1 or G7 based on their content when they were posting, though I guess realistically I need to downgrade their desirability a little based on recent activity. I had no read on G8 when he posted, like, twice.

I want L2 and L6 to weigh in on this when they get a chance. To both of you, if I pair with you, how will you go about trying to read me? What will you do if you scumread me? What will you do if I scumread you?

Trying to read you: probably aggressive qt interaction, that's pretty much the obvious but the more you can keep up the better I would probably feel. It is a useful tool. If I scumread you I am unlikely to just leave the dance to force you out, if that's what you're wondering. You currently are far from a universal Townread. I am not always the most charismatic in getting my scumreads lynched but I think I can present concerns and start a wagon on you if necessary. If you scumread me, that would depend on a few factors, including whether the suspicion is mutual or not, I'd definitely try to figure out where your read was coming from but I would probably just make my case to you about being Town and also why someone I scumread deserves your focus if I was reasonably convinced that your suspicions were sincere from you as Town.

G8 asking L7 with almost no content posts is, wow. Just reading it it's like going 0 to 60 in one sentence.

Who are you looking to pair with Lady 2?

I'd be open to G6 but he doesn't have eyes for me. I've thought about G1 (needs to start posting again tho) and G7 (though I've questioned whether he's Town quite a bit) as potentially attractive partners.

What do you like about me?

I don't really remember that much about you, tbh. I'm going to have to look back at you after I catch up to see how I feel.

I think I said this but it was this that made me interested in pairing with you:

I retract my earlier wooden feel on g7.

He’s cool.

G7 - why don’t you want to partner with someone too towny?

I don't feel like I'm too town read and what we need to win is to create as many strong T/T pairs as possible. If I'm scumread, it will potentially get someone who's well townread to die from being lynched or them leaving. I still want to pair with someone I consider town, to potentially help in solving, bit nit someone whow iso a consensus TR unless I am as well.

For some reason I looked at that and thought to myself that hey, I'm not a consensus Townread, and yeah, I don't have anything close to a lock Townread on you, but in that respect I'm kind of what you're looking for - maybe that makes us a potential match. I thought about it and figured I could work with you from this type of angle, anyway.

Catherine, is the amber-haired lady you dislike numbered 8 or 9? - oh, okay, I see you mean 8.

I'm almost certain that replace out discussion like this both goes against the spirit of the game (at least in my interpretation of the moderator's posts) as well as the spirit of the site-wide rule pertaining to replacing out. Either way, I'm specifically requesting here that you don't discuss it -- simply take the action you deem necessary and be done with the matter.

This.

I will not engage with L5 while she is talking about finding a replacement behind the scenes. All of her posts regarding this matter are absolutely and clearly in violation of

site rules

, specifically Rule 3 under Mafia Rules.

Also STOPPPPP talking about guessing mains at all. Thanks.

I feel like I need to sit and digest here a little bit. Not really confident in any of my suspicions at the moment. I read a lot of words but I don't feel like I'm seeing the shape of the game as it changed over the last 30-odd pages all that clearly (e.g. who benefited? who didn't?)

[Lady 2]

L4, if I leave the dance (proof that I'm town) can you leave the dance after?

Whoa okay G6 you have quite that strong a read on G5?

I will prioritize more of my time available for this game to reading that slot I guess.

[Lady 2]

I understand; Thank you, Lady 2. Her ISO straight (while I will admit I skimmed at least part of it) doesn't look as solid on her read of Lady 5 as I remembered - I can definitely see where you're coming from now. I'm not really sure how this affects my read on her, but I'll keep it in mind and it does hold weight.

Do you have time to talk about the game with me for a bit?

I'm stepping out for just a but - will you be around in maybe half an hour?

[Lady 2]

I understand; Thank you, Lady 2. Her ISO straight (while I will admit I skimmed at least part of it) doesn't look as solid on her read of Lady 5 as I remembered - I can definitely see where you're coming from now. I'm not really sure how this affects my read on her, but I'll keep it in mind and it does hold weight.

Do you have time to talk about the game with me for a bit?

I'm stepping out for just a but - will you be around in maybe half an hour?

Yes.

See you then!

[Lady 2]

Okay G4, as promised, half an hour from stepping out, I'm here. What's on your mind?

[Lady 2]

@Lady 2

these were for you from earlier:

Lady 2, I would like to see your analysis of the current matching as well as your reads list, if possible. The more numbers you can attach to things, the more jubilant I become.

In addition, how comfortable are you in your scum game? If you could have paired with any of the gentlemen prior to them making the matches they have now, who would you have chosen? If your answer is Gentleman 2, please also include your second choice.

Sorry I missed those!

Current matching:
G2-L9 - Good, lean T/T
G4-L3 - Fairly good. I do read G4 Town. I am less confident in L3 but kind of like G6/L8 I don't mind seeing it because I think it will be a +utility pair, like I trust G4 to contribute to reading L3 usefully
G5/L4 - need to reread G5 in full, most of his posting has been in the last day or so and it's a lot and G6 (who I mostly trust) has a strong scumread that I need to evaluate. L4 feels fairly Town so there's that?
G6/L8 - this is a reasonable reason for L8 to be in the game. I approve of G6 not fully discussing his read of her at this juncture
G7/L7 - I'll be honest I was kind of hoping to be asked by G7 but water under the bridge. L7 I still read as Town. This is the only pairing where I'm hoping for the Lady to help read her partner for the game, buuuuut I'll admit I lean Town on G7 at the moment as well. Which is great! It kind of mitigates my disappointment, I hope the two of them do indeed find they dance well together.

Overall the players left without partners right now are:

G1 - Probably one of my better options as a partner at this point. Oddly vocal about Townreading me early. I don't want to get too paranoid about being pocketed, but not many players seem to have strong Townreads on me right now, probably besides him strongest Townread on me is from L4 and I feel like L4 and I have much more direct interaction? I'm open to pairing with him but in some ways I'd feel better about pairing with someone I had a strong Townread on and they were questioning me than the other way around? But that train has sailed, as they say, my strongest Townread gentlemen and even G7, who I was less sure of but interested in have already paired off.

G3 - I actually don't mind his concerns about endgame etc. If anything stuck out to me I think being vocally, openly concerned about pairing to make endgame and coherently explaining his thought process about who he expected to get left out is Townlean. Scum don't

want

to appear overly concerned about making endgame, I agree that 1515 feels good.
Perhaps I should update in favor of G3 being a partner I would prefer over G1. Certainly he's been quite active, also an important quality.

G8 - Deliberately (????) low content, low information value, asks L7, a popular and largely Townread Lady out of the blue. Untenable long-term, I don't know what to say. Even if he becomes high content, high value - it could happen, but it's a nagging worry that it's +utility for scum to pair a strong Lady and not give any information pre-dance if they can get away with it without consequences so??

L1 - Needs to post more, not a fan. Appreciate that she gave some reads, at least but between two holders of the slot there's a whole lot of nothing. Seems to be offering content now but in an unfocused way, not really getting anywhere. I don't want this to be a case similar to G8, except instead of no content there's a token effort at content that isn't highly committal.

L5 - Hard for me to parse and I find myself resisting going into it because she's breaking site rules regarding outside influence relating to talking in-thread about potential replacement of her slot.

I would go so far as to say that this issue requires Moderator intervention.

L6 - I don't know. She has lots of mostly reasonable words. High volume of scumreads, but they're not terrible? Most of them are decent, though I disagree heavily on L4 scumread. I won't be too disappointed to see her stay.

If I could have paired with any gentleman in the game prior to matches, excluding G2 (actually not sure if I would have been an optimal pairing for G2 but I'd have been open to it if he'd wanted it and the overall utility seemed decent), I would have wanted G6 or you, G4. G6 as a strong Townread and strong player, you basically for similar, though I guess emphasis on my very early Townread on your slot - I guess just because my first thought was in making what I would be most sure of as a T/T pair, including with someone I could see myself working with, someone active and contributing, too.

Right now, the order of my preferences for pairing myself among available gentlemen is G3>G1>>>G8

I ... don't know how comfortable I am in my scumgame. I've had periods of deep lack of confidence in my scumgame and periods of confidence, but I haven't played much Mafia very recently so I don't really know how I'd feel or react drawing scum right now to be honest. I often find playing scum stressful just at baseline.

[Lady 2]

Did anyone else feel like the 7/7 pair came out of left field?

Like, maybe, but L7 has been one of the most desirable ladies and G7 arguably one of the best remaining gents so I can see why either would find it suitable.

[Lady 2]

I’m sorry l2!

For accepting G7? Not a worry, I just hope you find him a good dancer!

[Lady 2]

I commit to accepting the next legal invitation I receive so long as it is an invitation in the proposed order.

That is, I will accept the first invitation from G3, or the first invitation from G1 provided G3 has already invited a Lady, or the first invitation from G8 provided both G3 and G1 have invited Ladies. I anticipate my activity will allow me to manually accept an appropriate invitation without undue delay. If I forsee a period of absence more than a few hours, I'll set to auto-accept invitations instead.

[Lady 2]

P-Edit I wonder if FG even accepts that

It was not intended as a Moderator-processable custom auto-accept request. It is a declaration to the other players in this game of my intentions. Unlike some of the other Ladies, I will not be V/LA during the critical period and I can contribute to promoting our preferred order of invitations by the three remaining Gentlemen by

not

requesting an auto-accept from the Moderator at this time.

[Lady 2]

P-Edit I wonder if FG even accepts that

It was not intended as a Moderator-processable custom auto-accept request. It is a declaration to the other players in this game of my intentions. Unlike some of the other Ladies, I will not be V/LA during the critical period and I can contribute to promoting our preferred order of invitations by the three remaining Gentlemen by

not

requesting an auto-accept from the Moderator at this time.

Excuse me? You think I want to be VLA during this time?

No? I was just explaining why I don't need to arrange an auto-accept from the Moderator (which I had been recommended to do) - because I won't be V/LA. It is completely neutral that you will be V/LA; given that you will be, your best option is to declare an auto-accept.

[Lady 2]

Oh that's depressing

No kidding, this is a problem. I definitely was hoping L1 and I would get invitations over L5. This is just a straight-up mess.

[Lady 2]

Oh that's depressing

No kidding, this is a problem. I definitely was hoping L1 and I would get invitations over L5. This is just a straight-up mess.

Yeah I thought it was a no-brainer.

Now I feel like I ruined things by not just accepting 8.

I'm sorry.

I don't actually think that would have been better, honestly.

[Lady 2]

I mean G8 is just an ENORMOUS problem the more I think about it the more asking L7 yesterday followed by L5 today is just

wow

I could honestly not see more disruptive invitations he could have made at those points?

well whatever I guess he's not going far this game and we can't unpair him but wow

[Lady 2]

Why was asking me a disruptive invitation?

(Also just switched devices and almost logged into my main. ...this does not bode well)

You're a strong, high-contribution player widely Townread. He's a gent with almost no contributions to speak of. A G8-L7 pair potentially locks you away in a pairing with no long-term viability even though you I think do have long-term utility in general. Now you didn't accept, sure, but in theory you could have - I guess it's more specifically an invitation for a disruptive pairing and not a disruptive invitation if you frame it that way. Asking L5 is disruptive in the opposite way - it takes a slot not widely Townread, not widely regarded as very readable, regarded by more than one player as moderately compromised in general, and locks it into Dance, forcing out one of two slots regarded as potentially readable (I think?).

And just the fact that both times he does this without, like, any indication of why he asked who he asked? It's just so hard to see this as not completely calculated.

PEdit: Oh I think this is worse than precancerous, I would say things have definitely invaded through the basement membrane here.

[Lady 2]

Look G6 reading and sorting G5 is a high priority for me but there's a lot of material just from him - but I am taking your conviction that he's scum seriously, okay?

[Lady 2]

I'll just leave at start of dance. Still think G5 is scum. L8 flipping scum makes me think that even more so.

I'm going to do other things, later.

????

?????

????????

[Lady 2]

Pre leaving dance when it starts.

...

Please don't?

[Lady 2]

I accept Gentleman 1's invitation to dance.

We'll see how this goes, but it's not like I would have said no to G1 at this juncture.

[Lady 2]

Look G6 I'll be real, I am reading G5 now

And it's hard because everything I see or don't I worry is subconsciously colored by the fact that I really really don't want you to suicide

But when it comes to G5, the thing that jumps out in his ISO as definitively bad is his read on G3, specifically his push that G3 is "survivalist scum" for what reads as quite a transparent evaluation of the merits of Ladies he could ask and his own position in the game (his assumption that the remaining, very low-activity gentlemen wouldn't be allowed to see late game, so he needed to consider late game viability of his partner, as though he were the last gent to pick). That shade from G5 continued way past the point that I felt G3 had fully clarified his approach, which I straight-up Townread. So. And this:

At this point I hope G6 flips scum because hes acting like a hardheaded dick.

(Ate ate ate)

L4: if you plan on suiciding, better make sure they go first.

Yeah, also not a good look on G5 considering his consistent stated Townread on you. And honestly even though much of the game is still opaque to me, those are reason enough to prioritize lynching G5 over letting you carry out your suicide threat. So you have an intent from me, I'm on mobile, there are two votes on G5(/L4) right now?

[Lady 2]

Thanks. Mod!

VOTE: Gentleman 5 (+Lady 4)

[Lady 2]

Yes I'm aware

I'm going to try to read L8 better. And I'm interested in what L4 thinks of you as things go on and you two share a private topic. Still and all.

[Lady 2]

Fair.

I just think given the gamestate, we needed gentlemen to start picking sooner rather than later.

You treated it (shaded it?) as scum-motivated behavior though, including G3's evaluations of what the pros of each Lady he could invite? This wasn't just a matter of you telling G3 to get on with it. You basically said that you found the specific manner in which he was not getting on with it scummy.

[Lady 2]

Fair.

I just think given the gamestate, we needed gentlemen to start picking sooner rather than later.

You treated it (shaded it?) as scum-motivated behavior though, including G3's evaluations of what the pros of each Lady he could invite? This wasn't just a matter of you telling G3 to get on with it. You basically said that you found the specific manner in which he was not getting on with it scummy.

I just think given the gamestate, we needed gentlemen to start picking sooner rather than later.

The disagreement of opinion wasn't the problem. The problem was that you were pushing your own imagined motive for my actions while ignoring me explaining the actual motive.

Which is why I said it’s a fine point. I jumped to conclusions and was too hasty with getting the game going.

I’m still thinking this game more based on the individual than the pairing.

So you don't think G3 is likely "survivalist scum" at this point? What's your read on him?

[Lady 2]

I think players should significantly relax on the Gentleman 5 push right now. At least until I've caught up. No one is made nervous by the fact that Gentleman 8 went out of order to choose Lady 5?

Oh believe me I am definitely perturbed by the G8 situation as a whole.

[Lady 2]

Ladies 2, 7, and 5 would you list the pairs in the game in order of most optimal to least optimal lynch, please?

@Lady 2, I do want to say that while I think Gentleman 8's scum flip would somewhat implicate you, I'm individually town reading you and I'd really prefer if that comment didn't prevent you from discussing things with me.

Optimal lynches:

G5/L4 barely ahead of G8/L5. I think both of these are high utility. G5/L4 bumped up in priority due to G6 kind of holding the game hostage to his scumread of G5, which I do mostly see and also I don't want G6 to suicide. I do think that there's a very reasonable chance one of G8/L5 are scum, almost certainly not both, probably G8 a bit more likely. I know and understand your evaluation of G8-scum's potential motivation to step in and ask L5 over me (or L1 but she has flipped) but if he is scum, that's not it because I'm Town. At this point I don't think there's much else for me to say on the subject. It's definitely a loss to the Town rn that L5 is alive and L1 is not.

Least optimal lynch is still quite clearly G2/L9 for obvious reasons.

Every other pair has one potentially high-equity Townread of mine paired with at worst a null/not sure/needs to post more partner, here they are bolding my Townreads:

G4

+L3

G6

+L8
G7+

L7

G3

+L6

I'd include my own pairing in that heading as well - I'm Town and I'd like to think I can provide good equity going forward, while I don't have a strong read on G1. G1 claims in PT to be somewhat behind reading and concerned about continued high-volume posting making it hard to stay caught up once he does. Of these pairings I don't have a strong preference for keeping or lynching any of them for the moment. I'm hoping that it's a situation where partners will help sort partners.

[Lady 2]

My follow-up question is rather difficult to phrase, but I'll do my best:
How comfortable do you feel with the game state right now with respect to a Gentleman 5 Lady 4 lynch?

I was going to say basically fine? I think there's enough consensus that G8/L5 can't be allowed to stay in long term regardless, and talking G6 off the ledge is valuable

but

L5 continues to insist on nuking everything in her path??? Like L8 saying that L5 needs to go NOW might be correct regardless of G6's attitude towards not lynching G5 now?

[Lady 2]

For G8 I think it is within the realm of the possible that he could become an asset, potentially, and that he very sincerely and innocently just didn't engage with anything pre-dance but has the capacity and willingness to contribute significantly now that we've entered the main phases of the game. I cannot completely rule it out, though at this juncture it seems unlikely. L5 is a different matter. I would like to be more charitable than I am, but it's really really hard for me to see L5 as a future asset to Town. It is very very easy to see her as a continual asset for scum even if she's Town. I do think G8 is at least as likely - probably more - to

be

scum-aligned than L5.

Yes, G5/L4 is (or was, at least) the priority lynch in my eyes, sorry about the typo.

The last question is pretty odd, or maybe I'm just misunderstanding it still? No I don't want Day to end right now I guess? Have I been thinking about things wrong? If we're timely we get two lynches before intermission, correct? I was under the impression that we could lynch G5/L4 and go on to lynch e.g. G8/L5 before intermission phase?

[Lady 2]

I have a preference for everyone checking in and contributing at least some thoughts before a first lynch. With 7 day deadline for first dance, we have time to discuss a bit before lynching but there's no reason to promote all that much delay either. I'd feel happiest getting both our two pre-dance lynches, preferably on G5/L4 and G8/L5. So if what you're asking is "do you want a speed-wagon" my answer is no, not particularly.

[Lady 2]

Hard to say. Initially yes I preferred G5/L4 first somewhat. Mostly to keep G6 off the ledge, honestly. Now I'm less certain about a preference.

[Lady 2]

Town G8 doesn’t choose L2.
Scum G8 chooses Town L2.
Scum G8 doesn’t choose Scum L2.

There!
It’s more clear now!

if you believe that

vote me

[Lady 2]

Town G8 doesn’t choose L2.
Scum G8 chooses Town L2.
Scum G8 doesn’t choose Scum L2.

There!
It’s more clear now!

if you believe that

vote me

Depending on what G5/L4 flips I might.

Are you trying to drive me away from them?
If so, why exactly?

Lol not likely given I'm still voting them.

I'm just saying, by your logic, I'm scum, case closed, right? That's the only reason G8 wouldn't have invited me there, right?

Look I really don't want to engage with you because you have a talent of making every attempt to communicate with you pointless and futile.

PEDIT: ... okay yeah G5 is a great lynch today not a doubt in my mind

[Lady 2]

Town G8 doesn’t choose L2.
Scum G8 chooses Town L2.
Scum G8 doesn’t choose Scum L2.

There!
It’s more clear now!

if you believe that

vote me

Depending on what G5/L4 flips I might.

Are you trying to drive me away from them?
If so, why exactly?

Lol not likely given I'm still voting them.

I'm just saying, by your logic, I'm scum, case closed, right? That's the only reason G8 wouldn't have invited me there, right?

Look I really don't want to engage with you because you have a talent of making every attempt to communicate with you pointless and futile.

PEDIT: ... okay yeah G5 is a great lynch today not a doubt in my mind

I think your not quite understanding me.
If G8 is Scum then your probably scum.
That’s what I’m saying.
If your Town then G8 is probably Town.

That’s what I’m getting at.

Huh I misread you there, I thought you had ruled out Town G8 inviting as he did (leaving only the possibility of scum G8/scum L2). Apologies for that.

[Lady 2]

I made a request to G1 to set aside time to chat directly without interruptions in our PT but he hasn't responded. I agree that his stream-of-consciousness catchup posted this evening is at best unimpressive and says almost nothing, kind of typing just to type - a few questions where I think the answers are completely irrelevant. And you could fill several pages about L5 being inconsistent and whatever and it still wouldn't mean anything. Some people are made of moon logic. Dipping into the marshmallow fluff isn't actually doing something meaningful.

@Mod

Am I allowed to quote stuff from PT?

Yes do it

Stop being a dick and encouraging others to rule break even if that slot is bad.

Also love how L2 joined onto the G5/L4 Wagon.
Makes me question if L2 thought through before voting them.

Read my posts then try again. Ugh, just disengage, L2, there is no there there.

VOTE: Gentleman 8

I believe that's five votes, making this L-4. That's an estimation, though. Right now I have Lady 2, 3, and 8 voting for this pair as well as Gentlemen 4 and 5. I might be wrong on this count.

I'm still voting G5/L4

G6, I would eventually like to be sold on L6-Town, I just kind of set it aside as you had a strong Townread there and I kind of didn't but fine. And G3 I'm leaning Town on. Unless I'm dead before intermission or something in which case my opinion on whether G3/L6 is really an endgame duo is not relevant.

Gentleman 1 and Lady 2: Not really a pairing I was considering at the beginning of the day, I like Gentleman 1 for the most part, but Lady 2's flip could help determine the alignment of several other players here and I've been less and less convinced by her posting recently.

This might well be the answer today, much as I might have liked playing longer - I have plans to proactively and expediently read G1 in PT ASAP to speed the process along so I have a better sense of what it's worth here - but at some point it might be good for me to know what my flip would tell you. If it's really information-rich, well, that's a meaningful data point in favor of it as a good first-dance lynch, fairly speaking.

This specifically is what interests me. Feedback on this.

I am exactly zero interested in lynching lady 2 for unflipped associatives.

If L5 flips scum can you be convinced?

You are scum stirring pots and muddying waters and I like my vote.

Gentleman 1 and Lady 2: Not really a pairing I was considering at the beginning of the day, I like Gentleman 1 for the most part, but Lady 2's flip could help determine the alignment of several other players here and I've been less and less convinced by her posting recently.

I won't support that lynch based on unflipped associative s either.

???

How's this as a compromise:

third and last lynch of the day is L5/G8 and shut up about them until then

Wait, I thought we get a max of two lynches first dance? We have 16 alive, each lynch gets rid of two, we go to intermission at deadline or 12 or fewer players remaining?

I also as a niche advantage think that L2 has reasonable amount of scum equity so I think that even if I end up being wrong on G1 we still might end up walking away with one scum.
Might even get a twofer if the effort to establish L2 as his townread and the hold off on pairing was because they're SvS.

Not that I would be like lynching L2 on her own.

Vaguely comforting but not really. Your case on G1 is more than fair and I guess being the last Lady to pair, bad luck or otherwise, just does make me more worth lynching.

G4's thoughts that G3 is bad in the same way G1 is are just???? They have little in common???

[Lady 2]

Don't take that as I think you're scum, take that as I don't think you're obvtown.

I understand and that's fair, sometimes I have an irrational emotional attachment to the idea that I should always seem obvtown. That's not always going to happen and even optimal Townplay (which is not what I think I typically achieve) sometimes results in not seeming obvtown and I can accept that intellectually.

Side note, my only solid main-guess right now is also in your "Who the fuck are these people" category.

[Lady 2]

Lol I have spent no time thinking about mains because I know I'd be bad at it and it would be a waste of my time; my one solid guess is pretty much incidental.

[Lady 2]

L2 is deathtunnelling me make it stop.

Oh yeah I'm deathtunneling so hard I'm considering whether my partner and I need to be lynch #1 before you

no I'm just not buying your repeated attempts to link me to L5

like why does L5 scum = L2 scum

like you

actually

believe L5 is

bussing me

and this is a real evaluation of the gamestate???

I don't believe you actually do, I can't see a sincere reason for you to believe that but I guess I'll hear you out if you want to explain. Couldn't hurt.

[Lady 2]

Town G8 doesn’t choose L2.
Scum G8 chooses Town L2.
Scum G8 doesn’t choose Scum L2.

There!
It’s more clear now!

if you believe that

vote me

Depending on what G5/L4 flips I might.

Are you trying to drive me away from them?
If so, why exactly?

Like this was pointless, no?

Okay I'll be real like I said I misread her post initially and the way I misread it it looked like she was saying the only realistic possibility was that I'm scum. In which case should she not vote me? If she was going to throw that type of association around, shouldn't she act on it?

[Lady 2]

Yes like I said I misread it, which I've already mentioned previously. I'm just saying given I misread it, that's why I said that.

[Lady 2]

How do you see it, L4?

[Lady 2]

????

G4 you have completely lost me here.

[Lady 2]

Hey G1 answer me in PT if you can kthx

[Lady 2]

Can we get an F in chat for L2 who is being ghosted by her dance partner in their PT as we speak?

[Lady 2]

G1 is definitely committed to the perpetual catchup post lifestyle. Like it could be genuine mediocre Townplay I guess but I agree it's a lot of nothing words. If he's scum, he may well see doubling down on giving reads (barely) based on material so far in the past that it's just disconnected from the entire game because he doesn't see another way into the game.

I guess what I'm saying is yeah my pair is a decent wagon, totally fair.

UNVOTE:

Thinking I need to reread G5 at least. Maybe also G4? I used to be very confident in G4 being Town. Now I'm questioning that a bit, more than I would have anticipated.

Lol L7 idk why you feel guilty about the thought that I might be scum but you shouldn't, not because I'm scum here but because whatever that's the game, in it, sometimes you think another player is scum, okay. I have some thoughts as to why actually, having said that, like I do think that we must have things in common as players in general so maybe it's partly that, like you feel guilty (irrationally) for scumreading a player you have things in common with as a player.

I don't necessarily mind being scumread and I definitely don't mind people scumreading G1 though I do think people saying blandly that lynching me would clarify some slots should think about where the valuable information would lie seeing me flip Town if we're the first lynch. Not necessarily discuss in great detail, but yeah. Information.

[Lady 2]

@L2:

If G1 is scum, how do you think scum is going to play around his slot?

Idk, my usual heuristic is that if you can bus before people realize that the player will be going down you get the full utility of the bus. I don't know how that holds in dance games, dance games reduce scum incentive to bus somewhat? I think if G1 is scum they have to realize how unlikely he is to make endgame at this point though. I think scum in that case would need to encourage paranoia between pairs and get people implicated as potential G1 partners, and do things to reduce the utility Town will get from my flip as Town. Scum also probably want to set up a heated argument about whether to get rid if G8/L5 before it after intermission if G1 is scum and G1/L2 is first lynch.

Which truthfully is kind of what G1 is doing right now so yeah, uh, there's that too.

[Lady 2]

Scum also probably want to set up a heated argument about whether to get rid if G8/L5 before it after intermission if G1 is scum and G1/L2 is first lynch.

That seems like a lot of work for not a lot of benefit.

Maybe, I'm just thinking about what scum can do when one of their number is in the first lynch. Kind of like G6 has been saying, that puts Town in a very advantageous position and Town unity would be high in that case, so scum need a strategy to reduce it. That's just the one that came to mind as a possibility. It's certainly shown potential to cause division.

[Lady 2]

Damn so I shouldn't have asked that question? FML

Oh this was @me

No I mean it's a pair that needs to be discussed and I don't see as a pair to take to endgame, just that it's something that

can

be divisive so scum want to use it to cause division especially if Town are strengthened by an early G1-scum lynch.

[Lady 2]

I mean, it's not AtE? It's not an emotional appeal?

[Lady 2]

Okay, it is LAMIST, but LAMIST isn't scummy especially coming from the most townread player in the game.

p much

[Lady 2]

Ballsy as hell for scum-G4 to jump in to save scum-G1 at this point, but if it worked and got rid of G6 as Townleader early in the bargain too I mean

[Lady 2]

G5 being so matched with me in how we view this makes me feel just that much better about my beliefs. I recall G6 throwing some hate his way as well, so I definitely get the sense the mafia at this point are just {G3, L5, G6}.

notice that

scum are both pushing the agenda that i'm scum all of a sudden

because they realize there is no path to endgame without killing me via lynch

I think my best defense to this idea is that I took way too long to do anything here. If I were scum do you think I wait until the walls are closing in to start to make my move? No, I act when I see the signs, not just because it serves me better, but because I have more intel gathering potential with my two scumbuddies. Another thing is if I was scum why do I devote myself to catching up in the way I have? As scum I would have avenues out of that problem and I could likely do it without anyone blinking at me doing it.

It's not inspiring much confidence to see your best defense be that you're playing too badly to be scum :/ people who play poorly as Town can play mediocrely as scum too

[Lady 2]

VOTE: G4/L3

If we're right on this one yes I will insta-leave and save everyone the trouble

[Lady 2]

Okay, it is LAMIST, but LAMIST isn't scummy especially coming from the most townread player in the game.

p much

Agreeful Much?

Yes, good job spotting me agreeing with someone's assessment of a situation using my words.

[Lady 2]

Okay, it is LAMIST, but LAMIST isn't scummy especially coming from the most townread player in the game.

p much

Agreeful Much?

Yes, good job spotting me agreeing with someone's assessment of a situation using my words.

Your very welcome mam.

What’s your read on G3?

Town

[Lady 2]

I'm saying, you think scum-G6 proposes this if his buddy is L3?

[Lady 2]

I'm sorry, I've been depressed IRL and having a hard time focusing. I'll try to get some work here done today. Just a heads up that I am still here and planning to participate.

[Lady 2]

So looking at the pairs we have, I also don't have a strong bead on two T-T pairs. Not even one right now, honestly.

Excited but also horrified that old!L5 says G8 has posted in their PT but not in the thread????

I keep going back and forth on G1 myself. He's been okay in PT I guess.

L5 is obsessed with enforcing her story of how the game is working. Narrative pushing will be promptly shot down if I have anything to say about it.
VOTE: Lady 5
Another point against her is how much she is talking about how G8 is not doing anything. That seems like a sort of guilty conscience-based mindset where she is most likely thinking, “why can’t my partner be around to make me not have to work so hard to preserve my pairing?”

But how can I read this and

not

think he's scum? Phrases like "another point against her" are peak "cases are scummy" scummy. Ugh.

I ... L9 voting L5/G8 over my pair is worrisome. I'm starting to think it would be better if my pair was kicked out first. If G8/L5 is T-T we're in a deep hole, though I guess the same is true if G1 is in fact Town and we're lynched first.

As an example, in the early game, they called Celeste leanscum because of "small concerns" with no reason given.
They recently changed that to leantown because of Celeste's "effort" even though she's literally been an absentee slot for the vast majority of the game outside of D1.
They noncommittally give milquetoast takes and ask questions that they never really follow up on when they actually are posting alignment indicative content.

Very good points here.

Gent 1, why did your read on me change?

Gent 6, where are you focusing for the first lynch, gent 1 or gent 5?

G1 - So I really havent had time to personally witness him in action so I have to go by rereading. I really do not like his way of nicknames, as it makes going back kinda a pain if you dont know the person. I feel like most of his questioning didnt really go anywhere, and that he didnt follow through on any of it. #1658 seems like the only post worth its weight, the rest looks like just asking questions and nicknames. Meh slot.

I kinda agree with the posts above.

But the con is that L5 lives awhile longer.

I think Lady 5 is playing too weird to actually be scum this game. Gent 8 hasn't done anything, his proposals were pretty bad though. I'm in agreement that Gent 8 needs to go before the final 3-4 or so pairings, as he isn't doing anything to make himself readable

Gent 6, I'm halfway on Gent 3/Lady 6, I townread Lady 6 but don't have a read on Gent 3 (even after I look at his iso, I can't seem to get a good feel for him), can you explain why he is town?

Why isn’t l9 scum? Come on people, her approach to the game is so scum motivated it’s ridiculous. Starts off strong with some analytical posts early day one and then floats on the laurels of early town reads for the rest of the game. How is this town? How is this above suspicion? I also don’t like her post today, mostly in the part where she feels the need to include her being young oerslective. It’s like no shit, you don’t need to qualify that but sometimes scum do. Also if g1 is scum, she poo-pooed my earlier read on g1 for posting to post. Look at her beginning of first dance hop onto g5, which seemed to be sleeping g6 predance rather than any kind of assessment of her own.

So what is town about her? I don’t see it. Also if there are five pairs left and she confidently likes l6/g3, what that Piet should have said is she’s willing to tear through the last three pairs because they contain all the pairs. So why specifically say your taking a hard eye in 7-7. Kinda makes me think we’re actually a town town pair she needs to get rid of.

I mentioned your pair because I thought it was T-T yesterday but now with so many town flips I've changed my mind, plus determining between your pair and gent 3/lady 6 is pretty important. I think there is a sort of consensus agreement that lady 5/gent 8 and lady 2/gent 1 are both getting lynched today, which leaves your pair, Gent 3/Lady 6, and my pair. And I don't know what Gent 2 is thinking right now

If your in my position and you want to win and not lose to mafia.
What would you do?

Not that

I am also willing to move to G8, the longer this crap goes on the longer I can't believe he might be town somehow.

Can you vote G8? Save the mod the hassle?

I can

VOTE: Lady 5/Gent 8

I also see L5 just straight up lost her mind. I might be having a confirmation bias situation but that meltdown really feels like it comes from scum with how indignant it seems. It feels like such a selfish reaction to not having G8 around. I feel like town would be upset there was an empty slot at all, but L5 made it all about her.

I think that this a strange opinion to have.

I'm paranoid now that L9 is actually scum with G1? But if that were true would she even be investing in getting the other pair lynched first?

I need to do more thinking, clearly. If my paranoia (?) that L5/G8 is T-T is true, maybe new!L5 and G8 (who exists maybe? Is there precedent for a slot not posting in-thread for over a week - yes I know including Intermission but still - and not getting replaced? L5 was replaced so quickly!) can help get themselves sorted?

[Lady 2]

G8/L5 has even more strikes against it than it did before, and it already had too many
G2/L9 probably would have died had L9 been town and L9 has not been impressive anyway
G1/L2 definitely can't live.

G7/L7 is the only other pair I would consider letting live, and they should probably be the other final pair apart from us.

I agree with this quite a bit, and the only thing that would change my mind on this is if L5/G8 flips T/T.
VOTE: Lady 5

I'm kind of getting a bit paranoid of L7 myself, but I'm not sure if this is something that could come from scum to have her flip between scumreading me and then taking it back soon after. I firmly believe G3 is town, L5 is actually probably town but I think that pair shouldn't stick around until the end and out of the remaining people, they should probably go first.

G1/L2 should go as well, but I feel more confident that they will flip T/S in some way, while this might flip T/T, and is going to be more impactful on the game if that happens.

????????

G7, what you do if L5/G8 flips T-T, explain now

I am VERY not sure about the push for G8/L5 to be the first lynch in this phase. And I'm more than a little paranoid that just as there's some light at the end of the tunnel with regard to old!L5 being a rule-breaking mess and G8 being unresponsive - just as there's a chance they might become readable - there are a lot of players saying "well of course G1/L2 and G8/L5 both need to go, L5/G8 definitely goes first".

VOTE: Gentleman 1/Lady 2

[Lady 2]

L5, please do not leave dance, especially not before G8's replacement takes over the slot and says something. I'm really not comfortable with the way your pair is being pushed right now as the lynch that needs to happen first and I DO NOT want your pair to be the first pair out a) without you and G8 having time to give input that might make you readable and b) without enough people having to commit a vote to actually lynch your pair.

[Lady 2]

Short answer is because G1 has been saying - all he's been saying of substance since First Dance started - is that L5 needs to go ASAP. Now multiple players including you - players I do not greatly trust - are pushing very hard on a narrative that L5/G8 have to go before me and G1. This includes G7 suggesting that G1/L2 is more likely T-S and G8/L5 T-T and also let's lynch L5/G8 first. This includes you making a bizarrely strong case against G8 possibly being Town. Like honestly what??? What are you saying??? I never said wow, now that we have new G8 he is immediately posting stuff that's super incontrovertibly Town. I'm saying he has a chance to post material that is readable and alignment-indicative, which we never got from the old slot (especially if the inactivity mainly stemmed from irl illness, as Fakegod implied). We

might

still need to lynch them this game. Might. A real possibility but not 100% a given. Why are you jumping to telling me that G8 could be coached already?

That's the short answer because I'm on mobile and need to cook some food but also not super short because I have no self-control when it comes to explaining these types of things.

[Lady 2]

L9, what is your read on G1? And on me?

[Lady 2]

L9, what is your read on G1? And on me?

I think that G1 is mafia and that you are town

Then it shouldn't matter from your perspective whether G1/L2 is lynched first and G8/L5 second?

I

really

don't understand your perspective doubling down on G8 having to be scum. G8 could be scum, as I see it, certainly. I don't think he's said anything so remarkable yet as to make him a significant Townread for me. I also haven't seen anything which warrants wondering whether he's scum being coached by his buddies. It's just - let me repeat - bizarre to me that you jumped straight from me saying I don't want L5 to leave outright because G8 might become readable and because we lose information by having a quick leave without a lynch wagon to you saying that "it's hard looking at what he's saying right now without thinking that he could have been coached or whatnot extensively before posting this stuff". I never said that his posts upon replacing in made him look Town, even! But you had a vocal Townread on L5 previously and no read on G8, though you did say his proposals were bad and you didn't want to take him to endgame, so ... fair enough. But this is a very very hard pre-emptive case against trying to read G8 or letting him live long enough to post anything readable! And it's not like G8 is your only scumread - and I don't see how he could legitimately be your strongest scumread either, but what do I know. So just. What! How? No.

Everyone assumed L5/G8 would continue to be disruptive and unreadable by inactivity respectively and therefore have to go (G1, still a major suspect of mine, has really only posted about L5 needing to go, plus some shade during First Dance about G6 being disruptive and driving Town off a cliff but without committing to a scumread on him). Now that's changed - potentially, anyway. I'm starting to wonder whether they might not be T-T, a very valuable mislynch scum has been counting on for a long time now that's suddenly much less certain.

Basically, I don't believe you are Town at this point, L9.

UNVOTE:

G7, what the hell information do you take away from a G8/L5 lynch if they flip T-T?

Thinking.

[Lady 2]

I like you a lot lady 2!

I'll be honest I like you too. I feel like I'm

supposed

to downplay that and question my Townread on you because our styles and attitudes are similar and maybe I just like you personally and am being pocketed (oh yes, Lady 2, partner of esteemed Gentleman 1, a real prime pocketing opportunity here this game!). But honestly you are my strongest Townread and if I don't work with that productively then I'm

really

not doing what I'm supposed to do, and anyway what of it, it's not like either of us really trust G7 so even if you were scum that's not really a major opportunity for you personally to use me to push your pair to endgame so yeah.

But in that case what do? Lynch L9? Or just lynch G1/L2?

I'm starting to be paranoid that it's G1, L9, one of {L6/G3} as deepwolf. I don't want to be too paranoid but my stronger reads here are G1 and L9 and G1's vote of G7 looks not really like a bus but more like something that avoids touching L9 right now and I think if I'm right and he is scum he just doesn't want to touch the deepwolf at all. If I had to choose one of the L5/G8 voters I've called out G7's explanation seems better than what L9 has here and what G1 has here too so. How do you see it right now?

[Lady 2]

Soooo the game is pretty stagnant, we haven’t come to a decision for a lynch, and I do t think I’m in a town/town pair anyway. I’m seriously considering leaving tonight before I head to bed. That gives you guys 3 days and a couple flips to work with.

Don't, I will go instead.

[Lady 2]

Soooo the game is pretty stagnant, we haven’t come to a decision for a lynch, and I do t think I’m in a town/town pair anyway. I’m seriously considering leaving tonight before I head to bed. That gives you guys 3 days and a couple flips to work with.

Don't, I will go instead.

I don't know for sure, I feel bad because what if I'm wrong and G1 is Town but honestly I do trust you L7 and I think G1 is more likely scum than G7. I would hate to be wrong though! I agree that the game seems like an uphill battle from here at best and it would feel really terrible to not even force out one scum but I do actually think G1 is more likely scum than G7.

Still want L9 gone. I guess if I'm wrong and G1 is Town then I don't even know, but certainly if he's scum that pair will have to go.

I hope you recover well from your cold.

Edit: I won't leave for the next 12 hours which I guess means I

will

leave tomorrow morning unless there's a very compelling reason not to do so. Sound good?

[Lady 2]

L5: Erratic posting in the PT aside, I think G1 summed up my worries here well in 3842. Basically, the PT reads almost exactly like the PT I had with scum in a previous dance game and I can't really say much more without outing myself, which I think is not kosher, even if it can't be proven? (Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't care if people know who I am.)

Okay on the one hand I guess that

is

valuable information, can you give some context? Because what we saw of previous L5 was really really erratic and disruptive, like so bad I knew it was futuile to engage her. I don't even think it was deliberate scum tactics per se, that's the difficult thng about it, but engaging with someone who clearly broke the rules and just continued on in the game was just something I didn't know how to handle from a read perspective to be honest. And previous!G8 was entirely absent. Can you tell us anything more specific (without quoting, obviously) about L5's behavior in the PT? Especially if you can give context about what former G8 said there when he was absent in the thread it could be useful. I don't want to have blinders on completely about G1 or L9 ... it's difficult here. I haven't really thought I'm in a T-T pair for a while now at least but I could be conf!paranoia-ing there as well, the way I think L7 might feel with regard to G7.

[Lady 2]

Hm. Did she seem annoyed that people were scumreading your slot or just general "you aren't around" complaining?

[Lady 2]

I'm not okay with my pair going first. I think doing so dooms us to a loss because of a double town lynch taking out too many town voices, though Gent 2 has been pretty quiet. Still, I think we should wait for Gent 2 to come in and lead us in a direction at this point.

Lady 2, what's the link between me and Gent 1? I think you're confirmation biasing a bit there. What has gentlemen 8 posted that is town indicative instead of just being null/catchup posting/shading other people (and they've disappeared again)? I'm confused as to the direction this game is taking

You and G1 have both been too interested in lynching G8/L5 first in Second Dance. Maybe because of that I am too paranoid that they're actually one of our remaining T-T pairs because otherwise it's not that they've been super readable, though actually G8 seems kind of okay right now. Not something I'd like to stake the game on but there's no one pair I feel comfortable staking the game on as T-T to be honest. If I had to, gun to my head, I'd have L7-G7 and L5-G8 in, though you could probably WIFOM me between L5-G8 and G3-L6 as the better endgame shot at T-T right now, which basically means I want G1 and L9 out first and then figure it out from there unless I was so wrong that those were both T-T pairs in which case I'd just suck at scumhunting this game, which I can't rule out.

Like if L5 is not scum she was hella lynchbait, no? And you yourself, L9, never scumread L5. And if G8 was really low activity due mainly to out-of-game stuff like illness ... yes it's bad that they have all that baggage and they're not super easy to read. But you know what, it's not like I've seen much useful or readable from you since ... since you accepted G2's invitation to the dance? Really.

And your strong pushback against me telling L5 to not just up and leave before new G8 has a chance to say anything useful and maybe readable ... no. Stop asking me what G8 has done that's Town. I'm not sure he is. He hasn't done that much. But I'm sure as hell actively and specifically scumreading you for the way you pushed back against the idea that they shouldn't go immediately as a given, essentially. I don't see why you would take that perspective if you're Town. And if you're scum, mayyyybe you're trying to preserve your own longevity by bussing a slot that's been thought of as completely compromised for a long time, seeing little downside to it because probably L5/G8 gets lynched, there's a scumflip, you're still fine yourself. Or maybe you're just securing a T-T lynch that you think is kind of a freebie.

G1 spent all his time First Dance scumcasing L5 and shading G6. But I don't really think those were real. The L5 stuff was all for the lynchbaity stuff she's done. It's like he was casing complete busywork.

Actually I should mention when suicide pacts came up yesterday, like right when G4 and G6 were doing their whole "come at me bro" stuff he started saying "hey, should I make one of these with L5 to get the pair out of the game" which ... yeah I don't know what to make of that except to think that L5 would have done a suicide pact with anyone in a reliable manner is just MOONBEAMS level. I'm not staking a Townread on that being a real desire for a suicide pact with L5 on his part.

I really really don't think you're Town, L9. And I don't

really

think G1 is Town either at this point.

VOTE: Gentleman 2/Lady 9

Look the chances of you being lynched as first pair out in this phase are low because I'm pretty likely to leave dance tomorrow morning. Then you'll get my flip, more importantly (given I don't think anyone has a strong scumread on me at the moment?) you get G1's flip. If G1 is Town and I screwed up, that's my mistake as much as anyone's for me leaving and I'm not exactly sure what the game looks like except I guess you'd have to put more scrutiny on people who pushed us as the first lynch for this phase?

But certainly if he's scum, by no means let L9 live to endgame.

[Lady 2]

Excellent

L7 you were a true gift this game

Most important thing to do here is reread G7, which I'll do in the next couple of hours

[Lady 2]

It fits my paranoia bias that L5/G8 is T-T. Still reading.

Looking back, G7 did push the G8 scum -> L2 scum thing during first dance while hard pushing L5/G8 as first lynch. That does largely rule out G8/G1 as remaining scum team here. If G8 is in fact scum, G7 does not really want to lynch G8 and have him flip scum for the privilege of being able to lynch me and get G1-scum flipped in the bargain.

Okay need to head out, more later.

[Lady 2]

I'm very disappointed that you all pushed Lady 7 to leave the dance.

??

Lady 9 looks terrible after this Lady 7 push.

Only question is does scum!L9 pressure L7 to leave last night if G7 is her partner? I would have thought G7 had some scum equity left in him, which would be motivation to not antagonize her in that way, but I don't know. To be honest I was a little surprised that L7 left when she did, I thought she'd give it a few more hours and then like she said we'd duke it out. Maybe scum!L9 hopes I leave instead?

Eh, I'm WIFOMing myself to death. The G7 reread will help more with L9, at least I hope it does (well, if it doesn't help the current stuff doesn't get more readable on its own).

Gentleman 1 - Lady 2 [3] - Lady 7, Lady 5, Gentleman 7

G7 voting here seems to soft clear it a bit, no?

I think if we are looking to soft clear anyone based on G7’s voting patterns the G8/L5 pair is a better option. G7 subtly brought that pair to L-1, which I noticed and decided to remove my vote because of. Had I not noticed that there was a definite chance that pair could have been lynched rather unceremoniously.

G1 making good points tho?

L5 Town. This is also because of finding out the original player's identity, which I feel a bit dirty about, but while her opinions had been bad, I think they had been honest and consistent with this player's meta.
G8 ??? I don't think anything at this stage can convince me one way or another and I don't really want to have the game hinge on a coin toss on if he's town or scum.

Oh more G8 should live but not town. G8 says L9 should be the last scum to die too.

G7 wanted g2 and l9 paranoia to the end.

If G7 got the two lynches he was pushing, L5/G8 and G1/L2, he might have won then and there for all I can see right now.

It fits my paranoia bias that L5/G8 is T-T. Still reading.

Looking back, G7 did push the G8 scum -> L2 scum thing during first dance while hard pushing L5/G8 as first lynch. That does largely rule out G8/G1 as remaining scum team here. If G8 is in fact scum, G7 does not really want to lynch G8 and have him flip scum for the privilege of being able to lynch me and get G1-scum flipped in the bargain.

Okay need to head out, more later.

You and I are reading different threads and I quoted several of G8's posts that oppose that.

You're wrong and probably scum. There was plenty of willingness for lynches on both L5/G8 and G1/L2 during First Dance, and multiple players including I think G4 considering that G8 flipping scum increased the chances of my being scum. G7 probably took a stronger stance on that hypothetical link than anyone. If L5/G8 go down and flip scum, realistically G1/L2 get lynched partly because of support for the possibility that I'm scum. So would G7 push L5/G8 scum for the privilege of lynching his buddy based on pushing a false scumread on his buddy's partner? Unless you think he's extreme hard bussing both his buddies, one indirectly, for limited payoff, during First Dance, G8 and G1 are not scum together. They're just not.

So you agree with me that G1/L2 should be the endgame pairing?

Hell no. G2 and L9 should be. G3 and I as backups.

????

I'm sorry G7 flips scum and it does nothing for your reads??? Not that you posted anything about G7 before he flipped so

And almost nothing to L7 except treating her as likely Town for a good chunk of the game

?

Like maybe she would be inclined to see the partner of her scum teammate, just hands off this whole thing

I mean

very conciliatory towards L7 this phase as well like

Lady 7, I know you didn't like how I phrased things. There's not much I can do on that. The only thing that can be done is continuing to scumhunt. The feeling on you is mutual, but I think you're likely town. If I knew your main, I could assess much easier if the collective was correct on you.

That's really one of the biggest interactions L6 has with either L7 or G7 so

Thank you for confirming to me that you aren't a double scum pair, G3.

I'd like to note that he hard sheeped your proposal when it would end with his and your pairings.

yeah

[Lady 2]

I really don't see why G8 can't be town.

The pairing pick, the first G8 doing nothing and G7 defending it in his iso, the second g8 doing fuck all

G7 was voting L5/G8 all First Dance and much of second Dance too????

[Lady 2]

VOTE: Gentleman 3/Lady 6

Okay, I'll be V/LA probably end of Friday through Saturday so we need to get a move one.

L6 goes now, get flip, do business.

[Lady 2]

Ugh.

Assuming L6 really just ragequit as Town, there will be words. And blacklists. But aside from all that. If she's Town, we have L5/G8, G2/L9, G1/L2.

G3, what order do we go in here?

[Lady 2]

Okay, I'll keep this in mind as my paranoia inevitably goes through the roof, assuming L6 isn't messing with us for the lulz.

[Lady 2]

How do you personally feel about G1?

Paranoid tbh but I've felt that way for a while. I felt ~less so for a bit especially after the G7 flip. Maybe being surprised at waking up and seeing a G7 scumflip (I wasn't expecting any flip and I was expecting to spend some anxious time working with L7 to figure out which of us would be leaving) swung me too hard the other way because I felt like clearly L7 had made the right choice by leaving, so me leaving with G1 would have been the wrong choice. But that's not necessarily true. It's possible both of us were in T-S pairings and both had justified paranoia, right?

I'll be thinking about it and going grilling everyone.

[Lady 2]

I've been paranoid that he's scum for a while. I was voting our pair for a while early Second Dance.

Can we really rule out L9+G1 scumteam here?

[Lady 2]

Fair point.

It's honestly refreshing to talk with confTown. This game has so much pressure.

[Lady 2]

Well any hope that I had that L6 was scum cutting things off is dashed.

Talk to me, people. I want to hear what everyone thinks is the correct order to off the three remaining pairs.

[Lady 2]

Please don't let this game die now my god there are three of you Town here help me. Because I have less than 24 hours to do whatever I can do here because I will be V/LA.

[Lady 2]

Lady 2, I need you alive to lynch Gent 8/Lady 5 - they're so joined at the hip that I doubt they leave at the end. We still need one of them to self vote, or for scum to bus, in order to get this lynch

VOTE: Gent 8/Lady 5

When did I suggest I would leave dance? Haven't done so since before G7 flipped.

[Lady 2]

Edit: I won't leave for the next 12 hours which I guess means I will leave tomorrow morning unless there's a very compelling reason not to do so. Sound good?

Since G7 flipped.

That was a very compelling reason not to do so.

Still thinking.

[Lady 2]

Can we really rule out L9+G1 scumteam here?

Not rule it out so much as L5 and G8 both replacing in and pushing on my pair for bullshit reasons just has such an easy and obvious scum motivation. I don't think them both being town is impossible, but it's extremely unlikely that you could ever confidently convince yourselves of that.

I need to reread their entrances.

[Lady 2]

Okay we need to start thinking PAIRS here. For me here's a list of all possible pairs:

G1/G8
G1/L5
G1/L9
G8/L5
G8/L9
L5/L9

I sat down just now and thought through it in my head just based on what was in my brain after rereading Second Dance today and also rereading most of G7 today. I typed up a brief thought on the plausibility of each pair. Can everyone else look at the possible scumpairs that should exist from your POV and write down thoughts? Then I will go ahead and post mine.

[Lady 2]

Okay, thanks. Waiting on the others.

If everything goes down after I would otherwise want to go to sleep U.S. time, that will be so painful.

[Lady 2]

Definitely hit me up in the PT if you have something you think is useful there. There's just been a lot bigger priorities in the main thread than trying to sort you in PT over the last couple of days, which anyway I think the utility of trying to do that goes down as the pool of living players shrinks. But please please if you think that one-on-one chatting will help me read you do go post and I will chat. I'm too invested in this game not to.

[Lady 2]

Okay I'm heading there now.

[Lady 2]

I'm holding thoughts a bit - just a bit - until I get posts from L5 and G8 who need to post NOW about what they thing the most likely duo for last two scumare
like I am gone V/LA in 15 hours or so

and I want to be done by then, like, I want the game over

in the meantime G2 you can remind me of anything that went on in your PT with L9 that looks useful to sort her? You can also talk pairs, I'm not stopping you

[Lady 2]

Ugh everything is terrible but information is helpful. L5 can you explicitly list or discuss the possible scum duos from your point of view?

[Lady 2]

Actually, L9 is either just scum or not paying attention to the game.

If I was scum and the TvT pairings are G3/L6 and G2/L9, it makes very little sense for me to specifically shut down G2's leave offer and box myself into reassessing after the G3/L6 townflips.

I think this is correct, actually.

[Lady 2]

No that's not my conclusion.

[Lady 2]

Actually, L9 is either just scum or not paying attention to the game.

Strongly leaning towards scum over not paying attention.

[Lady 2]

As it happens I also think the G1/G8 pairing idea is BS

[Lady 2]

U do that

[Lady 2]

Waiting on G1 in PT for just one thing

[Lady 2]

...

[Lady 2]

Possible pairs:

G1/G8
G1/L5
G1/L9
G8/L5
G8/L9
L5/L9

G1/G8: seems unlikely based on what I saw in G7's stuff on Day 1.
G1/L5: Like I said, G1 said he wanted to suicide pact with her Day 1 in our PT. This never seemed likely to progress to anything (I mean he only brought it up once G6 and G4 were discussing suicide pacts, that's how it came up?) but does he even say that if they're buddies along with G7? Maybe I guess?
G1/L9: BIG PARANOIA BABY
G8/L5: would hurt so so much if I settled on G1/L9 and I was wrong. Is it remotely possible that the scumteam would

not

kill L9 if BOTH L5 and G8 were scum? Nahhhhh.
G8/L9: Also plausible I think.*
L5/G9: Maybe also plausible?

Okay looking at things it's just SO SO HARD to believe L9 isn't scum here just looking at pairs. It's either a pair with her or G1/L5 I think.

*okay I typed the pairings stuff up a few hours ago and then realized I wanted to see what other people had to say about pairs before I posted it, I think L5 made a decent point about G8/L9 maybe being less likely but I can reevaluate in a bit pending flip

Let's cut to the chase. I think L9 is scum and I want to see the flip. If I'm super wrong, a portion of the blame to me for the loss I'm sure, there's plenty to go around and whatever.

G2, I say you leave dance ASAP.

[Lady 2]

????

You think it's key to solving the game but have too much contempt to do it yourself???

Get it together dude!

[Lady 2]

...

I'm going to bed. Of course now I'm really wakeful instead of sleepy. So it goes.

G2, I still want you to leave dance as soon as possible.

[Lady 2]

I'm too old for pulling even a semi-all nighter. And My brain is friend for [presentation IRL type stuff but nonspecific here] where I will have to discuss things with LOGIC and REASON. But I will credit you guys for making me fall in love with the game of Mafia all over again.

G2, L9 is scum

Okay, so the next little bit is pretty much the same thing.

Can we lynch G8/L5 first?
1. They're both pretty scummy and I feel fairly confident at least 1 will flip scum (probably not both, though).
2. They're going to be lynched anyways and we might as well do it now. I'd rather have more information from that lynch first.
3. This will give me time to read and try to make an informed opinion that lets me sort through the noise a bit better?
4. This lets other people in thread cool their heads.

VOTE: Gentleman 8

L9 where is your catch up...
L7 do you have any reads L4 do you have any reads

I have reads but I'm keeping them in the PT.
Still haven't looked at G5, and I'm liking L8 less for her posts recently. They feel like they're just to throw doubt around in an unfocused way.

If G8 is scum, I'd be okay with a L2 lynch after.
I don't see them pairing up if they're both scum because I feel like L2 could be town who can live for a long time and G8 would be more of a burden. Yes, it's possible that G8 randomly invited L7 and then L5, but I don't really know, especially when anyone could just read a couple random pages and decide to keep L5 around.

I'm bad at reading AtE, though I think L5 isn't scum, but I still don't feel confident in that. I think 1 person in that team is scum.

G6, was it you who wanted G5 to die first? Why are they a better pick over L5/G8 for being first?

P-edit. Oh, I just realized you weren't talking to me. Oh well.

This is why I have ruled out G1/G8 as a pair. Because G7 would not have hard pushed a lynch on one (G8) of his two buddies to directly set up a lynch on his other buddy (G1) by virtue of his buddy's partner (L2) supposedly being scum with the first (G8). That's a very extremely risky hard bus for that stage of the game. Nah, if G8 is scum with G7, G7 is setting up a mislynch on a T-T pair here. And if G8 is Town G7 is just working on a mislynch and can go on his merry way regardless of G1's alignment when L8 flips T. This is why I don't think this logic holds true of G1/L5 as a pair - if he gets that lynch and it's T-S but L5 flips scum and G8 Town, G7 doesn't push on to push G1/L2 because L5-scum doesn't imply L2-scum like G8-scum does by his argument.

[Lady 2]

Lady 2 the big question is if I'm scum who is my partner, I don't get why you want me to die before figuring that out? Like, if you've made up your mind, seeing my flip isn't going to bring new info. And I was kind of expecting more written than just "Big paranoi" and "plausible" twice

Can you talk about the G7 stuff you're looking at day 1, how does that relate to a G1/G8 pair?

I think L5 made a decent point about G8/L9 maybe being less likely but I can reevaluate in a bit pending flip

Why do you need my flip to reevaluate? Shouldn't you be doing this all now?

It's not like g2 is going to flip scum

Okay based on right now L5/L9 team value has SKYROCKETED if you're asking

I don't blame you at least for trying to turn on me but L9 is very obviously scum flailing here.

[Lady 2]

I did a NK PoE.
The only world where G5 and L4 did is where at least one of L6/L9 is Mafia

I was going to say this:
Ok so that was depressing.

Anyway, the only way Town Wins is if both @G5 and @G3 trust in me.
As you two are the two I KNOW by PoE are not Scum. However 1 of L6, L4 and G8 is prob Scum.
The best option we have right now is to lynch G1/L2 and G7/L7.
If we do that, we should have a chance to win.

As G2/L9 should have been the obvious kill but not I got to rethink things.

I agree with this, but I think G3/L6 is likely town. L9 is almost certainly mafia, I don't see why mafia wouldn't have killed that pair otherwise. The only other option is that they have a S/S pair.

Regardless,

G2 should not leave

until there is at least 1 scum flip, probably 2. Because there's nothing that such a flip would gain.

VOTE: G1, this pair should not stick around for longer than now.
However, if you guys want to get rid of us, do it by lynch rather than by leaving, because if she leaves then you just get a T/T flip and nothing else.

Only after this post does he agree with G3's assessment of which pairs can stay or go. He wanted to lynch L5/G8, then my pair, then possibly pivot. He had already said he did not want you one until ideally two scum were dead.

Preview edit: No, L7 made no concrete statement about plans to leave prior to the day before she left, scum did not have the ability to plan extensively around her leaving when she did.

[Lady 2]

The reason I asked G2 to leave is because I'm sure you're scum and I'm not sure of your partner and I think it

might

be L1. At least I can get red on the board while everyone else posts and I can read them and their reactions

L5 making a real good case for herself as your buddy right now though

[Lady 2]

Actually, L9 is either just scum or not paying attention to the game.

If I was scum and the TvT pairings are G3/L6 and G2/L9, it makes very little sense for me to specifically shut down G2's leave offer and box myself into reassessing after the G3/L6 townflips.

I'm convinced.

I'm prepared to leave, G2. I think your pair is the TvT pair currently, but I will stay to talk if you need more.

This is a bizarre pivot in the space of like a page is all.

[Lady 2]

I don’t have a tangible reason to think g7 is scum, some of it is just a flat tone and sometimes the sense that sometimes he’s posting what he thinks town him would post, but that one is difficult to be confident about without knowing the main.

So that’s where I’m at, a big fat no place. I don’t know how g6 thought so many people were being obvtown here. I’m not sure if it’s because I’m super rusty, or if obvtown has become such a useless commodity these days p, but I just don’t see it. And normally, I’d step in and try to be a guide, but it’s difficult when you’re tethered to someone you’re not sure is town. Right now I’m trying to figure out if I should try to get a scum lynch or if I should leave. It’s weird.

Anyway it’d be really nice if the town in this town started acting like it.

From before intermission, and I'm not sure- what she said in her pt. Regardless, it's a good bet that scum had some inkling that that pair wasn't going to survive with Lady 7

Correction: This is just after intermission

That's not evidence of a plan to leave and you know it.

[Lady 2]

In your pt, you tell Gent 1 you are feeling better about him - I've noticed you have not denied this, nor do you seem to 'suspect' that G1gent 1 told me anymore.

I told him no such thing, scum

[Lady 2]

All of a sudden she got real convinced that her partner isn't scum, even though she supposedly had paranoi earlier, and all she could say for me/l5 earlier was "plausible"

L5's hard pivot was REALLY OBVIOUS

[Lady 2]

I'm not 100% it's her with you I guess but it was very striking. I do actually now have a pair I can be okay with myself hinging the game on.

[Lady 2]

Look I need to go to work and do stuff. G2, you have questions, hit me up, I'll be around this morning.

Please let's try to settle it ASAP as mentioned I'm V/LA from this evening through deadline.

[Lady 2]

G2 is a lot less inclined to leave than he lets on. I don't know what he's thinking, exactly, we'll figure out when he next comes on, hopefully, but he basically told me that he didn't have a read on me but wanted to see how other people reacted
And boy, you showed your hand on that one

Okay well honestly at this point the choice is in his hands, if you're right that he's disinclined to leave then that's something that is.

Just like you being scum is something that is.

Scum who lurked through First Dance and tried to play it cool in Second Dance until she realized that the person everyone Townread that she was trying not to rock the boat on (except G1 who vocally said he was still sorting me) figured she was scum and asked for her removal.

[Lady 2]

Actually,

L9 is either just scum or not paying attention to the game

.

If I was scum and the TvT pairings are G3/L6 and G2/L9, it makes very little sense for me to specifically shut down G2's leave offer and box myself into reassessing after the G3/L6 townflips.

I'm convinced.

I'm prepared to leave, G2.

I think your pair is the TvT pair currently

, but I will stay to talk if you need more.

[Lady 2]

If there's enough consensus that my pairing has scum in it, then I will just leave the dance.

However, I will insist that you also leave if the game isn't over, L2. I find it nearly impossible that there isn't scum in your pairing.

I'm convinced.

I'm prepared to leave, G2. I think your pair is the TvT pair currently, but I will stay to talk if you need more.

She's prepared to leave so long as I leave, leaving only G2/L9 pair alive. She also explicitly states that she thinks you're Town and is happy with you being last alive.

[Lady 2]

Did you miss the part where she said "if the game isn't over"? Even IF she went first leaving and is scum the game's not over then (unless L5/G8 but then she really truly never leaves). Even there she's saying "make G2/L9 the last pair alive".

[Lady 2]

Look you are desperate, flailing, and also trying to get me to show emotional investment in the hopes that emotion looks scummy to G2. I'm emotionally engaged here based on my reason. I'm fine. G2 has the game in his hands here honestly.

[Lady 2]

What I'll say is, I think if scum left L9 around to mislynch her, they would have... made some effort to mislynch her at some point. Pretty much nobody has. That's a red flag.

And while it's not impossible for L5 and G8 to both replace in as town and start hard pushing my pair just at the point where I'm trying to garner support for us being T/T, it's pretty damn sketchy.

[Lady 2]

FFS I have four hours left to me in this game because I need to go V/LA then

where is G2, and G8, and G1 for that matter

[Lady 2]

Hello, lovely people.
I'm a bit busy in real life for a few hours. I'll be back soon.

[Lady 2]

Countdown to deadline: 1 day, 8 hours, 19 minutes

The end is pretty close. I would like people to check in with me when they're here, please. I won't be able to read the entire thread in time but my predecessor has left a lot of notes which I'm working through.

[Lady 2]

Hi Lady 9. Could you give me a summary of your reads atm?

[Lady 2]

Replacements shouldn't be throwing you off. We're the same slot and the same account and I'm working from my predecessor's notes. Think of us as one mind - trying to read me as an independent mind when I have less than 48 hours to crush this game would be ridiculous.

What are you looking for by way of response to 4307? Could you show me your interactions with flipped scum which you feel clear you as being scum with them via too much to be bussing?

4272 is like.... a transparently agenda-driving case against my slot.... the fuck would my predecessor have engaged with that drivel?

[Lady 2]

sorry if my subtle take on your slot is showing.

[Lady 2]

Like just from this page. You're certain I'm scum and you've been engaging with my professor up until she needed to replace out. I replace in and call for engagement and you take the opportunity to throw a cute comment to your IC dance partner rather than trying to force a new replacee into an engagement ?

We have less than two days left. If you think I'm scum you have an opportunity to fucking bury me. I don't think you're trying to push your read, I think you're trying to pocket G2 and hope for the best.

[Lady 2]

Alright I'll play nice - why G8? What's your clear on L5/G1/G8?
will be at a PC soon.

[Lady 2]

^ It should be very clear that the replacement is working off an agenda here

Countdown to deadline: 1 day, 8 hours, 19 minutes

The end is pretty close. I would like people to check in with me when they're here, please. I won't be able to read the entire thread in time but my predecessor has left a lot of notes which I'm working through.

[Lady 2]

When we're pushing deadline, I'll have no time to read this thresd, and my predecessor left a butt tonne of notes with her solve ... yes I'm working off what she laid out? Like no shit. What am I pushing, mislynches? Or am I I trying to get as much into this game as possible with what time is left? Is it a scummy or a towny agenda? Going "wooaaahhhhh last minute replace in working from her pred's notes is an AGENDA!!" is such a surface level read it's ridiculous

You're playing to the crowd rather than trying to parse what my agenda is or if you believe it's fake, pressing it until it snaps

[Lady 2]

.....ok sweaty

[Lady 2]

G2 I kinda need a read on your good ladypartner as soon as possible please. I happen to think what the former L2 saw in L9 is actually very transparent and unfortunately that means my job here is effectively pushing 30 tonnes of manure uphill. Luckily I'm the gal for the job.

I'm not sold on the partner yet. I'll synopsise my pred's outgoing comments as a way to swing myself into this game but please please please. People check in when you can.

[Lady 2]

so the player pairs are:

{g1,

l2

}
{

g2

, l9}
{g8, l5}

my predecessor appears to have fallen on the side of townreading g1. she's asked for me to consider a couple of tells in his iso; i'll be checking against this asap.

my pred has pointed out that we were scarcely a point of contention during second dance *until* voicing an opinion that l9 was scum. following this l9 pivoted to the only stance she could have (that we are scum). personally i think the fact that she's trying to find a way to make that read fit at any cost is pretty transparent but on this occasion g2's read is about 100 times more important than mine, and the reads of g1/g8/l5 are needed as well.

it seems that l5 has been kind of townbinning l9 which from my perspective is pretty concerning regardless of l9's alignment; i'd be pretty interested in an updated read on l9 from l5 when she has a chance to check in.

if l9 were town paired with the IC, there is close to no reason not to just shoot the t/ic pair during intermission outside of like. suboptimal play levels of wifom. it sounds as though g3's late iso is a valuable read (prior to l6 exiting prematurely) so i will be digging that up as part of my catchup. it sounds like my pred put quite a lot of effort into blitzing her reads against g3's, questioning whether they stood up and ultimately just agrees with quite a lot of what he was saying.

based on some of g7's 1D content, she belives that g8/g1 are not a scumteam. this is very useful, though as far as i can tell my pred is kind of poe/townlean on g8 and not totally confident on his alignment.


my pred implored that i talk with g2 and see whether he sees any of what we're seeing in l9; if we are correct and l9 is scum, l2 is currently the absolute pivotal slot right now.
she has implored me to work with g1 (i'd prefer to do a quick check myself before going too hard on this but based on her casing i'm pretty comfortable with her solve).

[Lady 2]

If Lady 2 were town you'd have notes telling you that Gent 8/Lady 5 is scum

her notes suggest that there's very likely 1 scum in this bracket, and she is all-but-convinced that you are their partner.
gth i like l5 less than g8 based on her notes and a few stray posts i've read but i'm not sold on this.

But you don't, because Lady 2 didn't specify "gent 1 isn't scum" even though she would have said that

could you please elaborate on what this means? i'm not sure why you are pretending to know what my pred's notes say

The one trying to "play to a crowd" is you here anyway

as a wise lady i know once said,
"...ok sweaty"

i'm a replacement with <48 hrs to correctly identify two scum. i have nothing but my instincts and my predecessor's substantial notes to work off. i'm gonna be sitting here solving this game and i need to work with other townies to do that because we're in fucking lylo

i am trying to check my pred's reads against my own and very much want to engage with the others lots in this game as much as possible given i have like. less than a single prod timer to do it in.

the crowd can suck it - i'm not here to make friends, i'm here to lynch scum.
check yourself on the same page. you ignore the replacein and plea for engagement from a slot you should be wanting to absolutely slam into a grave and instead throw cute comments at your IC dance partner - how are you possibly getting that i'm playing to the crowd and not trying to kick this game's ass?

[Lady 2]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... start=4175

first impression:
i want l5 gone as soon as possible.

[Lady 2]

Countdown to deadline: 1 day, 6 hours, 0 minutes

30 hours.

i need you my friends
g8's posts about l5 are towny
his floating g1/me as an endgame pair is literally a whole solve. his read on g1 is giving me thumbsup vibes
misread on g3 feels sincere

just grabbing these rq:

L5: Erratic posting in the PT aside, I think G1 summed up my worries here well in 3842. Basically, the PT reads almost exactly like the PT I had with scum in a previous dance game and I can't really say much more without outing myself, which I think is not kosher, even if it can't be proven? (Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't care if people know who I am.)

L9: I feel like in a gamestate where everyone seems confused as fuck, L9 seems to be the one who knows the most. Not sure if that's an AI thing for her, but it is definitely eyebrow raising. I'd like a readslist from her, tbh, along with reasoning behind her PoE. Honestly not sure why she's catching flak for scumreading me if I'm a lurker slot and she does have reasoning for the PoE though.

i fully understand why we're being pushed as partners, and i think you're functionally correct on your reads with the exception of a misread on g3 which on first impressions i like.

if you have the chance i'm very interested in seeing how your thoughts are progressing.

[Lady 2]

Spoiler:

I'm done. Town deserves to lose. I never should have been Wagoner or suspected.

Either lynch scum or lose. I'm done caring.

All the town that did listen are dead so bad at listening at best.

Gee I wonder why that is

MAYBE BECAUSE THEY ALL LEFT FOR STUPID REASONS.

Man after all this I STILL don't think L9 is town.

All the town that did listen are dead so bad at listening at best.

Gee I wonder why that is

MAYBE BECAUSE THEY ALL LEFT FOR STUPID REASONS.

They left because no one joined me in telling them to knock off the bullshit.

But hey, I don't have 257754 hours a day so that's my fault.

Okay.

Disengaging.

If anyone else is around and wants to talk about anything, go for it.

If not, GL town. See you on the other side.

So don't take my word for it. But I think the pair with the fewest strikes against it is yours.

Okay, I'll keep this in mind as my paranoia inevitably goes through the roof, assuming L6 isn't messing with us for the lulz.

How do you personally feel about G1?

Lol if L6 is town

I mean I assume L6 is town and not just scum hitting below the belt for literally no reason.

To throw the rest of us off and make her leave unreadable, I bet.

How do you personally feel about G1?

Paranoid tbh but I've felt that way for a while. I felt ~less so for a bit especially after the G7 flip. Maybe being surprised at waking up and seeing a G7 scumflip (I wasn't expecting any flip and I was expecting to spend some anxious time working with L7 to figure out which of us would be leaving) swung me too hard the other way because I felt like clearly L7 had made the right choice by leaving, so me leaving with G1 would have been the wrong choice. But that's not necessarily true. It's possible both of us were in T-S pairings and both had justified paranoia, right?

I'll be thinking about it and going grilling everyone.

If you're paranoid of him, does that mean you do townread him, or you did townread him?

It's certainly possible that you and L7 were both in T/S pairings, but I'd still lean toward L9 scum over G1. (And if they're both scum and G8/L5 is T/T then lol)

I've been paranoid that he's scum for a while. I was voting our pair for a while early Second Dance.

Can we really rule out L9+G1 scumteam here?

Can we really rule out L9+G1 scumteam here?

Not rule it out so much as L5 and G8 both replacing in and pushing on my pair for bullshit reasons just has such an easy and obvious scum motivation. I don't think them both being town is impossible, but it's extremely unlikely that you could ever confidently convince yourselves of that.

Fair point.

It's honestly refreshing to talk with confTown. This game has so much pressure.

In all honesty, I don't like to play blame games, but if we lose this (assuming you're town), you shouldn't feel bad at all. This game has just had so much bullshit.

What shitty reasoning?

You/G7 were acting weird while G7 was pushing you for endgame. G7 was scum. If anything, my push has been vindicated.

this is a pretty wolfy popin on l5's part

[Lady 2]

When we're pushing deadline, I'll have no time to read this thresd

...No offense but then why did you replace in, if that was the whole point of the replacement?

we have 30 hours left, there's 175 pages, and you and i are the main people talking.

what am i better off spending my time on?
1) reading stuff my predecessor has already worked through and then coming in with brand new fresh-eyed fallible reads and about 2 hours left on the clock so all i can do is pray that someone else rocks up?
2) standing by my predecessor's reads and keeping the momentum up as much as possible, engaging with as many people as possible and advancing the game as much as i can with less than 48 hours on the clock?

i'm clearly reading ISOs and will do as much as possible but i'm not gamebotting this shit, i have some spare time over the weekend so i'll be here to do what i can with as much time as i can but i refuse to waste my time.

[Lady 2]

if you're town can you like, help me with some stuff here? since i've arrived you've

Wherever I wanna be.

Hey you

popped in to suck up to your IC dance partner

These replacements are throwing me off

I'm pretty sure your scum and your predecessor couldn't come up with an answer to 4307 or most of 4272, among other things. Gent 8 is also scum. There's 2 scum remaining and 3 pairs

have very little stance because intraslot replacements are throwing you off (??)
asked why my pred didn't respond to:
1) an absolutely agenda-drenched scumcase on her, herself, with no apparent trajectory leading to it
2) a really half-assed attempt by you to discredit her clear on another slot by comparing yourself to the slot which you haven't substantiated as i asked you to

Alright I'll play nice - why G8? What's your clear on L5/G1/G8?
will be at a PC soon.

poe and just more likely than l5

admitted you don't have reads just poe and g8 is more likely than l5 for... just because?

If Lady 2 were town you'd have notes telling you that Gent 8/Lady 5 is scum

But you don't, because Lady 2 didn't specify "gent 1 isn't scum" even though she would have said that

The one trying to "play to a crowd" is you here anyway

shaded me on like virtually unbelievable grounds

When we're pushing deadline, I'll have no time to read this thresd

...No offense but then why did you replace in, if that was the whole point of the replacement?

took a dump on me for like trying to hero mode this game when doing virtually anything else guarantees a loss



like to me your mindset here looks incredibly wolfy - mathematically if you/g2 is the t/t pair town should be winning this so you should probably be trying to be MORE readable not doing whatever you're trying to do rn

[Lady 2]

look I'll try and be nice. from my perspective this exchange has been:

L2: hey I think you're scum and what you're pushing looks like an agenda can you work with me if I'm wrong?
L9: NO!!!! ur teh scumz!!!!

if I'm wrong on you we're in an unreal mathematical advantage so I'd be pretty happy with that - I think L5 is kinda slimy and I like G8's ISO but he's kinda transparently lhf off the d1 role play/low postcount thing. I think L5 is the scum in that pairing.

G1 I need to work on but I think I just agree with my pred's findings that he's trying, just not a BIG POWER BIG NOISE kinda player. I agree with G8's assertion that he's trying to solve the game and doesn't seem to care how he's perceived. I think he and my predecessor just came to the same conclusion there.

[Lady 2]

dripping with scum intent

dddrrrriiiipppppppiiiinnnnnnggggggg

sorry if my repin was a lil alienating btw I find it easier to get invested in games by taking a STANCE then checkin myself and I don't have much time to get into this one before its over

[Lady 2]

so my only issue with a l7/l5 solve rn is that it feels too obvious

[Lady 2]

l9/l5* sorry.

[Lady 2]

how...

[Lady 2]

operating in a scum!L9 world you're like my paranoid tinfoil offpartner to L5 for her
I really don't think G8 is scum; what are your reads like on that duo atm?

[Lady 2]

if this closes in on deadline i vote g8/l5 for the probability of scum!l5

biggest issues with her so far
- pred doesn't like her
- her popins around the l6/g3 leave were like intensely wolfy
- she's holistically ignored my shitting up the thread asking for input in a p similar way to l9
- i really have no idea what her solve is

she feels content but doesn't feel like she's pushing a solve :shrug: this feels consistent with scum mindset in a lylo which might time out

[Lady 2]

how many lynches can we pull off? we'd kinda need to rely on g2 + g8 leaving and like... :c

[Lady 2]

possible
kinda stupid decision if so
i actually rather like g8
so i think it's fairly remote and balance of probabilities we'd just win in that world anyway

sorry, are you familiar with lynch mechs in this setup? can we have two people leave or do we need to lynch two couples?

[Lady 2]

VOTE: L5/G8
i'm praying for this.

[Lady 2]

so L5 is incapable of addressing my replace-in in good faith, and ignores everything itt except for imploring the IC to vote with her when

she isn't evaluating the alignment of the IC's partner who is literally pushing an agenda

whatever L5
leave, kill my ""buddy"" g8.
if you flip town i'll self-vote.

[Lady 2]

how is a g1/l2 scumteam more likely than l9 just being scum hhffff

[Lady 2]

low key didn't actually expect l5 to just leave

[Lady 2]

i'm still kinda just... in shrug mode you wouldn't just engage with me at face value...? but i'm happy to wait for these flips. like if this was the t/t pair and it's l9/g1 then g8 has been really unfairly scumbinned this phase

pedit; yeah i agree with that

[Lady 2]

Now I guess I get to see if I was fooled in the eleventh hour.

i'm going to start breathing again bc i'm pretty sure g1 doesn't bother posting this if it's him/l9

[Lady 2]

wig.

hold votes i'm diving this

[Lady 2]

L9
if we are t/ting

i am like, desperate for you to engage with me when you get back into the thread


g1 i need to hear where your mind is at, please. as much detail as you can. no more PT posting.

[Lady 2]

Spoiler:

VoteCount 1.0

Gentleman 2

- Lady 9 [0] -

Gentleman 4

-

Lady 3

[0] -

Gentleman 5

-

Lady 4

[0] -

Gentleman 6

-

Lady 8

[0] -

Gentleman 7

-

Lady 7

[0] -

Gentleman 3

-

Lady 6

[0] -

Gentleman 8

-

Lady 5

[0] -
Gentleman 1 - Lady 2 [0] -

Not Voting [16]

- Gentleman 1,

Gentleman 2

,

Gentleman 3

,

Gentleman 4

,

Gentleman 5

,

Gentleman 6

,

Gentleman 7

,

Gentleman 8

, Lady 2,

Lady 3

,

Lady 4

,

Lady 5

,

Lady 6

,

Lady 7

,

Lady 8

, Lady 9

With 16 alive it takes 9 votes to lynch

.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-11-19 02:34:47)

VoteCount 1.1

Gentleman 2

- Lady 9 [0] -

Gentleman 4

-

Lady 3

[0] -

Gentleman 5

-

Lady 4

[3] -

Gentleman 6

,

Lady 5

, Lady 9

Gentleman 6

-

Lady 8

[1] -

Gentleman 5

Gentleman 7

-

Lady 7

[0] -

Gentleman 3

-

Lady 6

[0] -

Gentleman 8

-

Lady 5

[1] -

Lady 4

Gentleman 1 - Lady 2 [0] -

Not Voting [11]

- Gentleman 1,

Gentleman 2

,

Gentleman 3

,

Gentleman 6

,

Gentleman 7

,

Gentleman 8

, Lady 2,

Lady 3

,

Lady 6

,

Lady 7

,

Lady 8

With 16 alive it takes 9 votes to lynch

.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-11-19 02:34:47)

VoteCount 1.2

Gentleman 2

- Lady 9 [0] -

Gentleman 4

-

Lady 3

[0] -

Gentleman 5

-

Lady 4

[6] -

Gentleman 6

,

Lady 5

, Lady 9, Lady 2,

Lady 8

,

Gentleman 2

Gentleman 6

-

Lady 8

[1] -

Gentleman 5

Gentleman 7

-

Lady 7

[0] -

Gentleman 3

-

Lady 6

[0] -

Gentleman 8

-

Lady 5

[1] -

Lady 6

Gentleman 1 - Lady 2 [0] -

Not Voting [8]

- Gentleman 1,

Gentleman 3

,

Gentleman 4

,

Gentleman 6

,

Gentleman 7

,

Gentleman 8

,

Lady 3

,

Lady 7

,

Lady 4

With 16 alive it takes 9 votes to lynch

.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-11-19 02:34:47)

VoteCount 1.3

Gentleman 2

- Lady 9 [0] -

Gentleman 4

-

Lady 3

[0] -

Gentleman 5

-

Lady 4

[5] -

Gentleman 6

,

Lady 5

, Lady 9, Lady 2,

Gentleman 2

Gentleman 6

-

Lady 8

[0] -

Gentleman 7

-

Lady 7

[0] -

Gentleman 3

-

Lady 6

[1] -

Gentleman 4

Gentleman 8

-

Lady 5

[5] -

Lady 6

,

Gentleman 7

,

Gentleman 5

,

Lady 3

,

Lady 4

Gentleman 1 - Lady 2 [0] -

Not Voting [6]

- Gentleman 1,

Gentleman 3

,

Gentleman 6

,

Gentleman 8

,

Lady 7

,

Lady 8

With 16 alive it takes 9 votes to lynch

.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-11-19 02:34:47)

VoteCount 1.4

Gentleman 2

- Lady 9 [0] -

Gentleman 4

-

Lady 3

[3] -

Gentleman 6

,

Gentleman 5

, Lady 2

Gentleman 5

-

Lady 4

[2] - Lady 9,

Gentleman 2

Gentleman 6

-

Lady 8

[1] -

Gentleman 4

Gentleman 7

-

Lady 7

[0] -

Gentleman 3

-

Lady 6

[0] -

Gentleman 8

-

Lady 5

[4] -

Lady 6

,

Gentleman 7

,

Lady 3

,

Lady 4

Gentleman 1 - Lady 2 [3] -

Gentleman 6

,

Lady 5

,

Lady 8

Not Voting [4]

- Gentleman 1,

Gentleman 3

,

Gentleman 8

,

Lady 7

With 16 alive it takes 9 votes to lynch

.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-11-19 02:34:47)

VoteCount 1.5

Gentleman 2

- Lady 9 [0] -

Gentleman 5

-

Lady 4

[0] -

Gentleman 6

-

Lady 8

[0] -

Gentleman 7

-

Lady 7

[0] -

Gentleman 3

-

Lady 6

[0] -

Gentleman 8

-

Lady 5

[0] -
Gentleman 1 - Lady 2 [0] -

Not Voting [14]

- Gentleman 1,

Gentleman 2

,

Gentleman 3

,

Gentleman 5

,

Gentleman 6

,

Gentleman 7

,

Gentleman 8

, Lady 2,

Lady 4

,

Lady 5

,

Lady 6

,

Lady 7

,

Lady 8

, Lady 9

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to lynch

.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-11-19 02:34:47)

VoteCount 2.0

Gentleman 2

- Lady 9 [0] -

Gentleman 7

-

Lady 7

[0] -

Gentleman 3

-

Lady 6

[0] -

Gentleman 8

-

Lady 5

[0] -
Gentleman 1 - Lady 2 [0] -

Not Voting [16]

- Gentleman 1,

Gentleman 2

,

Gentleman 3

,

Gentleman 7

,

Gentleman 8

, Lady 2,

Lady 5

,

Lady 6

,

Lady 7

, Lady 9

With 10 alive it takes 6 votes to lynch

.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-11-24 03:40:36)

VoteCount 2.1

Gentleman 2

- Lady 9 [0] -

Gentleman 7

-

Lady 7

[0] -

Gentleman 3

-

Lady 6

[0] -

Gentleman 8

-

Lady 5

[2] -

Lady 6

, Gentleman 1
Gentleman 1 - Lady 2 [3] -

Lady 7

,

Lady 5

,

Gentleman 7

Not Voting [5]

-

Gentleman 2

,

Gentleman 3

,

Gentleman 8

, Lady 2, Lady 9

With 10 alive it takes 6 votes to lynch

.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-11-24 03:40:36)

VoteCount 2.2

Gentleman 2

- Lady 9 [0] -

Gentleman 7

-

Lady 7

[0] -

Gentleman 3

-

Lady 6

[0] -

Gentleman 8

-

Lady 5

[4] -

Lady 6

, Lady 9,

Gentleman 3

,

Gentleman 7

Gentleman 1 - Lady 2 [3] -

Lady 7

,

Lady 5

, Lady 2

Not Voting [3]

-

Gentleman 2

,

Gentleman 8

, Gentleman 1

With 10 alive it takes 6 votes to lynch

.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-11-24 03:40:36)

VoteCount 2.3

Gentleman 2

- Lady 9 [0] -

Gentleman 7

-

Lady 7

[1] - Gentleman 1

Gentleman 3

-

Lady 6

[2] -

Gentleman 8

,

Lady 5

Gentleman 8

-

Lady 5

[4] -

Lady 6

, Lady 9,

Gentleman 3

,

Gentleman 7

Gentleman 1 - Lady 2 [1] -

Lady 7

Not Voting [2]

-

Gentleman 2

, Lady 2

With 10 alive it takes 6 votes to lynch

.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-11-24 03:40:36)

VoteCount 2.4

Gentleman 2

- Lady 9 [0] -

Gentleman 3

-

Lady 6

[0] -

Gentleman 8

-

Lady 5

[0] -
Gentleman 1 - Lady 2 [0] -

Not Voting [8]

- Gentleman 1,

Gentleman 2

,

Gentleman 3

,

Gentleman 8

, Lady 2,

Lady 5

,

Lady 6

, Lady 9

With 8 alive it takes 5 votes to lynch

.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-11-24 03:40:36)

VoteCount 2.5

Gentleman 2

- Lady 9 [0] -

Gentleman 8

-

Lady 5

[0] -
Gentleman 1 - Lady 2 [0] -

Not Voting [6]

- Gentleman 1,

Gentleman 2

,

Gentleman 8

, Lady 2,

Lady 5

, Lady 9

With 6 alive it takes 4 votes to lynch

.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-11-24 03:40:36)

VoteCount 2.6

Gentleman 2

- Lady 9 [0] -

Gentleman 8

-

Lady 5

[2] - Gentleman 1, Lady 2
Gentleman 1 - Lady 2 [1] - Lady 9

Not Voting [3]

-

Gentleman 2

,

Gentleman 8

,

Lady 5

With 6 alive it takes 4 votes to lynch

.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-11-24 03:40:36)

VoteCount 2.7

Gentleman 2

- Lady 9 [0] -
Gentleman 1 - Lady 2 [0] -

Not Voting [4]

- Gentleman 1,

Gentleman 2

, Lady 2, Lady 9

With 4 alive it takes 3 votes to lynch

.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-11-24 03:40:36)

G7/G8 bus pattern is quite strong. G7 pivot from G1 to G8 d2 is interesting - either deeper bus or guilty conscience (lean weakly latter due to quick shift)
all i'm getting from this is that i want to check my predecessor's suggestion that G7 spewed that G1/G8 aren't scum together

[Lady 2]

didn't really think about it before doing the VCs up but lack of lynches means vca isn't super rewarding

[Lady 2]

The only world where G5 and L4 did is where at least one of L6/L9 is Mafia

this is a solid take/objectively likely, pred agreed fwiw
that being said i kind of have to have this stance now so :BIG SHRUG:

i had g8's minimalistic posting totally backwards but like, i liked his reads man

sadly all the solves around sod have g1 as scum before l9 so i'm kinda screaming internally

[Lady 2]

ah that was a g1/l6 solve, reading from sod2 i'm starting to see where l6 ragequit might have come from

[Lady 2]

L6 is most likely scum trying to avoid getting the pair of G1/L2 lynched.

If L6 is scum their wincon is certainly not to keep the scum in G1/L2 alive to endgame. Scum have no incentive to keep each other alive here. What they have an incentive to do is to avoid creating any associatives.

i appreciate this, obv. sorting l6 isn't valuable now but it's good to remember scum wincon aorn is to be **in the endgame pair**, esp. from g8's pov in f6 as final pair was {g2l9, g1l2}

[Lady 2]

I don't think L5 has an interest to regardless of her alignment. L5's push back is survivalistic. The G5 G6 fight was secondary to the push on G8 which did get traction somewhat yesterday. Today, people forget G8 exists. Lady 5 picking fights, regardless of her alignment does something for someone.

I'm not opposed to a G1 lynch but I'm strongly in favor of a G8 lynch. So was G5 before he was shot.

Why? I still never have the soul reason why.

And no one forgot G8 exists. G1 was the Lynch Day 1 if G4 and G6 didn’t have a fit.

anyone surviving have a pov on whether the latter part of this applies to g7/g8 as well? don't believe i'll be able to dive it in time

[Lady 2]

You didn’t Town yourself?
Also This is why I compare you with Gent 7 over Lady 9 with Gent 7 because of that vote.
Gent 7 also switched until G1 which is the right move. But then says Lady 9 is the scum. Which I feel a scum vibe of him saying that with no doubt in his mind.

It’s like it makes sense for the team to be G1, G7 and L6.

L6 scum Reads G1 but doesn’t push. Votes G8.
G7 Voted G8 previously, G7 tells mafia “Hey let’s kill G5/L4 and blame it on L9”. Then bus votes G1.
G1 telling mafia they give up and taking one for the team.

G1 In NO WORLD dose he vote G7/L7.
He may vote L9 to make it seem like a bus
He may vote L6 and try to convince me his Town even though that’s stupid.
Or vote L6 and tell G7 that they could be mafia.
He may vote G8 as it makes the most probable sense as a mafia to do that makes them Null Mafia leaving no interactions.

i'm probably spending too much time dwelling on this but it's an interesting universe
not sure this remains valuable when removing l6 from the equation (or replacing her with g1/l9) :/

[Lady 2]

1: Seems to be more concerned with trying to find scum than trying to look town, which is a good thing. Not sure how I feel about the emphasis on traditional scumhunting over townblocking, but of the 5-ish recent posts I get townpings from 3842, 3961 and 3963.

7: Defense of G3 is pretty awkward, or at least is painted as pretty awkward by L2, L7, G3. I should probably look into context around 3896. 3965 and the subsequent complete disagreement from G3 is interesting. The fact that he completely agrees with 3's mission statement in 3968 is very interesting.

L2: Major townvibes. Particularly 3966. If I pick an endgame pair right now, it's this one.

L9: I feel like in a gamestate where everyone seems confused as fuck, L9 seems to be the one who knows the most. Not sure if that's an AI thing for her, but it is definitely eyebrow raising. I'd like a readslist from her, tbh, along with reasoning behind her PoE. Honestly not sure why she's catching flak for scumreading me if I'm a lurker slot and she does have reasoning for the PoE though.

Mathematically, I want to shoot for a doublescum rn if at all possible. L9 should be tabled until F4 or a significantly less confused gamestate, because that pair CAN'T be doublescum.

VOTE: G3

I'd probably also go in on a G7 lynch, but I feel like L7 is a better bet to keep around longer.

If someone could explain to me why the thread at large seems to thing G1/L5/L9 are all flavors of scummy I'd be appreciative.

the way g8 distances from g7 here is really interesting; he's using l7 as leverage for not lynching his scumbuddy. having he then does a very similar thing with L9 (implying she's a manipulator; saying we should leave her alone until lategame) and states g1/myself as the endgame pair is like kinda tingling my brain



fuck it's just dawning on me l9 pushed a "you are scum with g8, and we are going to flip g8 to prove it" which makes me feel like she's just been positioning our lynch QQ

[Lady 2]

sigh

i really want to gambit and test you, g1, but i'm terrified we'd just lose the game.
am i correct in thinking you're dead set on L9 scum?

[Lady 2]

G2 could i get a quick rundown of your reads rn?

i just feel like L9 is pushing an agenda. the hamfisted positioning postflip just makes me want to yolovote you guys and hope for the best but given you're an IC alive in f4 this is kinda just your game at this point

[Lady 2]

I have finished reading the flipped mafia and I am almost ready to decide who between L9 and L2 is mafia, but I want to read L9 because while I have looked at L2’s activity density around the time where the game went crazy I have not looked at L9’s, I have only used the fact her post count has been rather low and the fact I recalled little from her at that time to make my impression there.

I am still thinking L9 is scum, but I want to do whatever I can to increase my ability to get this right, so I am not locking myself in yet.

cool, i rate that

could you give me some like cliffnotes from flipped scum on l9?

[Lady 2]

This

Your slot is saying that G1/Gent 8 can't be scum together because G7 would have had to have been pushing on G8 and setting up on G1

I pointed out that it's the same scenario if I'm scum where I'd be pushing on one and setting up on the other

No response

I asked you to expand on this because I still need to decide whether to sheep my predecessor on this... ;-;

[Lady 2]

I mean mood re people who know I'm town leaving the dance they just left before I got here :#
ganbit is I wish I could survivalism check G1 because his only choice as scum is to scumread you but I can't test that well anymore

[Lady 2]

Could you expand on what's clearing about that for you? I will not read the full thead and I need to make a snap decision about how much I trust my pred here

[Lady 2]

Could you also expand a little on where your G1 clear comes from? You seemed super confident on the G8/L2 solve yday and like... I'm still freakin out here fam

[Lady 2]

Sigh

I think I'm just trusting my pred and my sinking gut feeling on rep-in. If you're town I'm sorry for this, but I don't know how to engage you productively. I don't think you've tried to engage with me in any realistic/good faith fashion and if you're town / G1 is scum I'm like... not sure how we ever get there :/

VOTE: L9

[Lady 2]

Mostly symbolic I suppose. But I'm fine to hammertest G1 if G2 wants

[Lady 2]

Reread L6/G3's last couple of pages tho :/