Newbie 1964 [Game Over]

[Micc]

VOTE: gyro zeppeli

All the available options for an RVS vote and you chose the player who hasn't confirmed and also hasn't been voted yet. Seems like a safe, stay under the radar choice. Didn't even include a joke!

[Micc]

Das pretty gay

Feel free to explain your vote. Karnage did ask about it after all.

I’m going with my theory that you wanted to be unnoticed and unproductive until convinced otherwise.

[Micc]

I find being anti-sheeping as a pretty bad take. Can you explain your position?

[Micc]

So is you vote strictly on the policy of being anti-sheeping, or do you have a scum read here?

[Micc]

To a certain extent the former although not fully; the vote is RVS (notice the irony). I don't scum-read him because of it, because I don't believe he was being serious. I find it very scummy when people appear to be creating content while in fact sheeping someone else; this is because scum will know that that player's reads are utter boll*xs and want to encourage them.

Are you referring to BBmolla’s vote being RVS or your vote on BBmolla being RVS?

Why are you so eager to cast shade on anti-sheeping? Do you want people sheeping you so you can fulfill your nefarious purposes?

I think some amount of working together is necessary to play well as Town, so the idea that one person should never express support of another’s actions by following in their footsteps doesn’t sit well with me. I’m aware of the bad things that can come from this that you presented, but I don’t think you’ve done your due diligence to find out if BBmolla is sheeping in good faith or not. I find questioning you about that helpful to determining your alignment, so here we are.

[Micc]

So what’s the purpose of the vote you made in post 30? You’ve already been in the thread plenty and laid down an RVS vote. What purpose does an additional RVS vote serve? From my point of view the reasons look a lot like you appearing to create content while not actually creating content, which is something you called out as something scum happily achieve by sheeping.

[Micc]

So what’s the purpose of the vote you made in post 30? You’ve already been in the thread plenty and laid down an RVS vote. What purpose does an additional RVS vote serve? From my point of view the reasons look a lot like you appearing to create content while not actually creating content, which is something you called out as something scum happily achieve by sheeping.

I feel like you're badgering (see what I did there) the LCpl a little bit.

Whats wrong with a second RVS vote? We haven't even had every player post yet I don't think. I made a second RVS vote but for some reason you didn't see the need to comment on it.

Yeah, I've heard that one once or twice.

From a theory standpoint, I see making an RVS vote as unproductive for town. Scum hunting has to begin eventually and a productive member of the town will eagerly make it happen as early as possible. That doesn't really hold true in practice as people love cracking jokes especially with people they are familiar with, but it makes sense from a theory standpoint. I didn't take your post 29 as a RVS vote because you seemed to be trying to actively move the game forward with your other posts, and that's not something I see from LCpl Jones.

Das pretty gay

Feel free to explain your vote. Karnage did ask about it after all.

I’m going with my theory that you wanted to be unnoticed and unproductive until convinced otherwise.

Couldn't sheeping be seen as wanting "to be unnoticed and unproductive until convinced otherwise"? You seem to hold different players to different standards

Yeah, and I think I acknowledged that. At some point you gotta engage and understand if that's the motivation propelling them to sheep or if they are following in the footsteps of a read they believe in that came from a player they believe is town. The former is bad sheeping the latter is acceptable sheeping. LCpl Jones doesn't seem to have looked into BBmolla's motivation for sheeping which is why I'm questioning him about it.

[Micc]

So what’s the purpose of the vote you made in post 30? You’ve already been in the thread plenty and laid down an RVS vote. What purpose does an additional RVS vote serve? From my point of view the reasons look a lot like you appearing to create content while not actually creating content, which is something you called out as something scum happily achieve by sheeping.

I don't see any reason why you can't have multiple RVS votes. I think you could safely say that I've moved the game out of RVS. What scum motivation do you see in that? Why would I call out a tactic that you claim that I am using myself thus drawing attention to it?

I don't think you deserve credit for moving the game from RVS by laying down extra RVS votes when Karnage and I are over here trying to ask game advancing questions. I do think there is scum motivation for you to misrepresent who is doing the real work here.

[Micc]

oh hey Billy! that game was sweet other than the losing part.

[Micc]

Also 7 and 15, and 20 and 21...

Look man, you can’t have both ways. One posts says you didn’t believe BBmolla was sheeping at that point and that your vote was a joke poking fun at the irony of you sheeping Karnage’s vote which he placed as a reaction to BBmolla sheeping. A later post you try to take credit for that interaction moving the game past the RVS stage.

Those things just don’t go together. If your BBmolla vote was an RVS joke, then it was actively hindering the game from moving forward, not helping it.

[Micc]

I have played many games off site. Where I came from though, the RVS was way more chill. I’m not super used to voted people right out the gate haha.

I'm sorry that I haven't been posting anything useful at all. All the games I've played on a different site have been very different to this one and I'm still trying to get used to everything. I'm gonna try to be more productive, I just am not sure how to start.

Welcome to the site fellas. Our games tend to be more focused on Day play than Night play, and the longer deadlines/slower pace reflects that. The introduction and tips section of skitter's setup post has some great reading material if you're looking for some direction, but my biggest piece of advice is to pick a completed newbie game and give it a read to get an understanding of what you can expect from this game. Ask questions about the stuff you're not sure about and we'll do our best to answer them. Don't be afraid to post your thoughts as you have them. More discussion is generally better than excessive quietness.

[Micc]

I like billy's vote, don't like Karnage's vote. Reserving judgment on Lcpl's vote for the time being. bbmolla being quiet and sheepy fits with what I remember of his playstyle although its been quite a long time since we crossed paths. If he's seeing the things I'm seeing then that's a good start.

gyro vote is good vote. looking forward to seeing his answer to 76. I feel like billy stole my line of questioning before I could get to it.

[Micc]

Am I supposed to quote things I want to talk about or just link the post number?

those are both equally acceptable options. Keep in mind that a long string of quotes can take up a lot of space making

Spoiler:

very useful.

Since I can't edit a post, excuse this triple post.

The only reason I'm not voting Gyro is because I'm convinced he's a vanilla townie just by the fact he doesn't care.

Can you explain why Gyro is more likely to be a townie who doesn't care than a Mafia player who doesn't care? Isn't not caring something that Gryo can do regardless of alignment?

I find it exceedingly scummy that he is trying to posture himself as a town leader that merits being sheeped (which I took from: "they are following in the footsteps of a read they believe in that came from a player they believe is town", given the obvious inference that its acceptable that BBMola sheep him because he is town. At the moment it's all I got and I'm going with it for a vote.

Ok, but why am I more likely to be a Mafia player who wants to be sheeped than a townie who wants to be sheeped? Isn't being a leader that people are confident enough to sheep good for me regardless of my alignment?

From a theory standpoint, I see making an RVS vote as unproductive for town. Scum hunting has to begin eventually and a productive member of the town will eagerly make it happen as early as possible.

IMO, RVS can be used to push someone to get them to squirm. It only really works if they don’t know it’s rvs. The goal of mafia isn’t really to find the scum it’s more to find people you can trust such that it’s impossible for mafia to win.

I think that if you're voting someone to make them squirm, that's no longer RVS right? Like, you saw something from someone that you decided to push to see what kind of reaction came from it. That's not randomly voting, that's beginning the process of scumhunting, which is a productive thing to do.

Throwing this out there now - I'm not voting Zepp on D1. I'll reconsider if necessary D2, but im not voting there D1. So let's play mafia and stop letting scum hide out by arguing for a policy lynch.

do you not remember nearly policy lynching pine in 1953 for actively deciding not to participate only for him to flip scum the next day? like scum can hide in the do nothing slot being policy lynched just as easily as they can hide in the group advocating for a policy lynch.

[Micc]

Akkias, do you think it's acceptable for a Vanilla Townie to have the completely disinterested mindset that you describe of Gyro? That is, would you consider that kind of play as good and helpful to achieving their win condition, or bad and not helpful towards achieving their win condition?

I'm going to assume your answer is that Gyro's play is not 'good' for a vanilla townie, or at least I hope it is. That leads me back to asking the same question I did earlier but with different phrasing: Gyro is playing badly and not helping his team achieve its win condition. Why do you think its more likely that he's doing this as town? Aren't scum just as capable of deciding they don't care about the game enough to try and play well?

[Micc]

I should add that openly speculating on players being vanilla or having a power role is regarded as bad play. Hitting power roles with the nightkill is a big positive swing for the scum team, so there's generally a conscious effort made to not give away information that could help scum decide who is vanilla and who has a power. Extra input only helps inform their nightkill choice.

[Micc]

Arkias, you still haven’t done a good job explaining why Town are far more likely to decide they don’t care enough to try and play well than scum. Who is signing up for this game with the feeling they won’t have agency over the game as a Vanilla Townie? More than half the players roll VT. A player who decides they don’t want to try is playing badly regardless of their alignment. It’s not something that’s alignment indicative.

[Micc]

Salsas is not the lack of content wagon to be joining. There’s already two of us on Gyro. Why not join the fun?

[Micc]

It’s a start. What’s your preferred method of navigating Day 1 if you consider that kind of stuff useless?

[Micc]

yeah I like this.

VOTE: Jones

[Micc]

It’s late and I’ve been drinking so I’ll respond to individual posts tomorrow morning. But that vote count is ugly. Need some consensus building in the next two days. Billy, BBmolla, Karnage off the table for me, but it gets harder after that.

[Micc]

Skitters vote count has a countdown timer that is accurate as of loading the page. Little over four days as of this post

[Micc]

What a world we live in

Jones wagon goes to l-2 and his response is to quit but not really quit and y’all are calling it a bad push.

It’s been a bad push cause none of y’all piled on to make it an l-1 wagon when he decided to throw hands in the air and play victim.

[Micc]

I like billy/molla/Karnage for town, gyro and Jones as scum and everyone else as newbies who I have a hard time distinguishing between

bad

Newbie scum hunting and actually being scum.

[Micc]

Also anyone who’s complaining about policy lynches needs to explain who having Gyro in lylo is ever a good thing for Town

[Micc]

There’s a vote count on the top of the page man

[Micc]

What is the difference is between L-1 and L-2 on your read there? Potential to hammer only?

the one vote makes a big difference. at l-1 someone can state their intent to hammer at any point and then you have to claim, and that's a big deal for scum. It's also one more person putting their neck on the line to be part of a meaningful wagon and that's something that reads can be built off of. heck maybe someone who is on the wagon has cold feet and backs off and reads can be made from that.

the point here being that in a game of this size, l-1 wagons mean things are much more real and meaningful when compared to everything else.

[Micc]

my answer for gyro asking why we are voting jones:

Spoiler:

'd say the argument for voting Zrpp today is not to waste a vote later. I don't think anyone wants to vote him over a scum read but even if he's town it will have a positive benefit in a lylo situation as


I very much get the feeling that the scum team is backing off on me.
FOS Billy and FOS Micc.

I'm not quite so happy with my vote on Micc right now.
UNVOTE:

Now there's options.

Just fwiw I'm not suggesting that those two are the scum team as in together, but I see certain things that might indicate they are scum.

At the moment, I dont want to lynch in Karnage, Micc, or Jones.
Not interested in BBM today, and I'm not policy lynching Zepp on D1.

That leaves Arkias, bep, and Salsae. Bep seems like they're trying at the moment. Salsae we gave you some thoughts on how to get started, but haven't heard from you in 24 hours. I'd like some pressure on that slot, but for me, Arkias is more interesting. I think his explanation of the vote on me was pretty vague, and when pressed, he didnt clarify.

I don't like this push at all. Salsae I'd agree with based on lack of content but Arkias? He hasn't had a chance to respond so pushing him for that makes little sense. Just going by timezones all his posts have been roughly the same time of day. I see clear reasoning which I can follow in his posts.

I'm going to place my vote on Salsae for now.
VOTE: Salsas

I very much get the feeling that the scum team is backing off on me.
FOS Billy and FOS Micc.

I'm not quite so happy with my vote on Micc right now.
UNVOTE:

umm... aren't these two statements contradictory?

Not really; I FoS Micc but don't think I have enough evidence to push a wagon right now, so I might as well make my vote be useful.

Salsas is not the lack of content wagon to be joining. There’s already two of us on Gyro. Why not join the fun?

I'd be more comfortable not right now with that as it somewhat wastes a vote on a VI slot and I'd like to put some pressure somewhere where it might be more useful. Albeit it's definitely an option later and I definitely would be happy to lynch him by default over no lynch.

If this improvement in play continues it could very well change my opinion on that
\_(^-^)_/

I think this string of posts is unlikely to have come from a town player who is genuinely trying to scum hunt.

I think the discussion of how billy and I are handling his slot shows a self consciousness about how he's being read that is more likely to come from scum than town. He suggests that billy and I might be the scumteam, but he's also not comfortable voting me, I imagine because he's realized I'm going to be a tough lynch to make happen by this point.

The jump to Salsas is actually pretty reasonable from a lack of content standpoint, but it's really unproductive. When I pointed out that Gyro was a wagon for a similar reason that had more support he expresses not being comfortable lynching a VI slot and that pressure elsewhere is more useful. Being concerned about losing a lynch to Gryo is a pretty good size turnaround from post 136 where he acknowledged that a vote for gryo now is a vote not wasted later down the road. As for pressure, how can being the single vote on a low content player ever be more meaningful than a third vote on a low content player? Especially when he's on the player who's headed towards being replaced (salsas) and not the one that is actively deciding not to be useful (gyro).

[Micc]

anaconda, is it scummy for me to run Jones up to L-1 and push for a claim if I think he's scum?

[Micc]

But the hands being thrown up in the air and such is a good point.

wait a second. You're sheeping me?

[Micc]

I think you're town.

I just think you assume everyone's played forum mafia and are playing in a forum mafia best interest/optimal play, rather than people coming from live games (Town of Salem/Throne of Lies) and doing typical plays from it.

that's close, but not quite it. I assume that everyone is here to learn about forum mafia, and I try to lead them in a good direction by challenging their opinions and forcing them to consider whether the concept that they are trying to apply is applicable to this format or not. For players who are open minded I hope it helps them learn, and for me the insight into how other players think about theory concepts is a good baseline to use later when it comes time to make reads based on game content.

[Micc]

So, what action would you recommend someone who is town take when they decide another player is scum? (voting them to L-1 not being a good option of course because you see it as scummy)

[Micc]

I think you're town.

I just think you assume everyone's played forum mafia and are playing in a forum mafia best interest/optimal play, rather than people coming from live games (Town of Salem/Throne of Lies) and doing typical plays from it.

that's close, but not quite it. I assume that everyone is here to learn about forum mafia, and I try to lead them in a good direction by challenging their opinions and forcing them to consider whether the concept that they are trying to apply is applicable to this format or not. For players who are open minded I hope it helps them learn, and for me the insight into how other players think about theory concepts is a good baseline to use later when it comes time to make reads based on game content.

I appreciate it. But like, our entire arguement between pages 4 to 7 came because I was reading Gyro as a bored townie since he was playing like one from ToS and ToL. He later confirmed that's what was going on with him, and anything else would just be a question on Policy Lynching. I do understand the view in forum mafia though, but I just don't believe that was Gyro's intention. I feel like in other games that I play forward, I just wont have that mindset with weird posting styles.

I'll respond here if you really want to continue this line of conversation but otherwise I'm dropping it.

So, what action would you recommend someone who is town take when they decide another player is scum? (voting them to L-1 not being a good option of course because you see it as scummy)

First off, I think it's better if the player under pressure responds as naturally as possible. He likely would have exhibited the same reaction if he found himself L1 rather than L2. So concerning my read on him I didn't think it worthwhile to add another vote.

this doesn't answer my question. I think LCpl is scum for the reasons I outlined in post 206. In post 213 you said that I was scummy for wanting Jones to go to L-1 and eventually claim. I want you to tell me what I, as a town player, am supposed to do in this situation in order to not be scum read by you.

Secondly, my vote did not wreck your wagon. It seems funny to me you also "threw your hands in the air" when you found a counter wagon instead of your Jones being at L1.

Sorry, I'm not following this part. What are wagon are you referring to being "wrecked", what posts are you taking as me having thrown my hands into the air, and what counterwagon are you talking about?

[Micc]

I don't think I've misrepresented anything here. I answered those questions in post 204 and you responded to them, but there's some logic that I think is flawed in that response and I feel compelled to challenge that logic. I'll happily take another shot at explaining L-1 vs L-2 again in exchange for you explaining how townies are supposed to lynch scum without making wagons which you called scummy.

Getting a genuine reaction from someone in forum mafia is really hard. You can't judge body language, tone of voice or a whole host of other things that exist in other formats. In this format, scum can take 40 minutes typing up the perfect response and even run it by their partner before hand in the scum chat if needed. A fundamental part of forum mafia theory is that applying pressure, especially in real time is the best way to get genuine reactions. L-1 with someone stating intent to hammer means there is a very real chance of a lynch going through at any time. L-2 with no more votes coming means the wagon is likely to dissolve. Five people's probing questions are a bigger burden to carry than three people's. Say what you want to say now or you might never get another chance. The onus is on town to make these valuable interactions happen and without them it's really hard to make accurate reads.

Secondly you know what I'm referring to. You made the statement "What a world we live in." That is also an appeal to emotion.

I mean, sure its an appeal to emotion, but I followed it up by stating exactly what I was frustrated with, how I thought it could be fixed and working to fix it myself. That's a far cry from throwing my hands in the air, picking up my ball, going home and never returning as Jones has done to this point. I don't think these things are comparable.

[Micc]

My original point was scum can do this looking for a claim to better inform there kill. That will be true regardless of site meta.

Right, you’ve shown scum can do it. I’ve shown Town can do it. Hopefully that leads back around to the point I’ve been meaning to make - that this is NAI. If you want to judge my alignment from this, you’re better suited to take a look at the content of my case and how I presented it. I’m wondering if you’ve done that and can post your thoughts?

[Micc]

So my understanding of guilded’s catchup is that I’m manipulative for trying to lead a lynch I believe in. But also that the points raised against her slot (many of which came from me) are valid enough that she’s in tough spot.

I’ll fully acknowledge having a strong voice and that I try to drive lynches I want. There’s like 2 days on the deadline. I feel like not driving lynches is anti-town. My challenge for guilded, and anyone who thinks I’m a valid lynch candidate here, is to explain why I have to be doing these things you don’t like as scum and not town. I think guilded in particular is likely to have landed on the former and not the latter because I’m being seen as the most viable counterwagon to lynching scum guilded.

[Micc]

Billy's summary is an accurate representation of what I was trying to say in post 279. I'm not sure where the manipulation is?

I voted the jones/guilded slot way back in post 159. I refrained from giving reasoning for that vote until post 206, mostly to see what the reaction to my vote would be. But 206 shows pretty clearly that I have reasons for being on the wagon that are not based around Jones's AtE or the issues I see with how guilded replaced in. My issue around the Jones AtE is that people backed off because if it, and I didn't see that as a valid reason to back off what was a perfectly reasonable pressure wagon. My issue with how guilded replaced in is that I don't think her push on me is made in good faith. She called me manipulative for pushing her lynch while acknowledging there are actually some good points made against her slot. I don't think she's considered the possibility that I could be town pushing what I believe is a good lynch, and I think the reason she's landed there is that its a super convenient way to start a counterwagon on me.

Anaconda, if you disagree with my scum read on jones/guilded, then could you attack the case I made in 206. You keep coming back to the AtE and manipulation storylines when those are secondary to the stuff in 206.

[Micc]

Hammer away imo

[Micc]

VOTE: Billy

You checked me and you're claiming a guilty now? With your soft yesterday how the hell would I leave you alive today?

hmm spicy

My immediate thought here is "can we lynch gyro now?" but I think that's somewhat lazy, and we kinda did lazy already yesterday. I need to spend some time reading back today. bbmolla can hopefully expand on his vote in the meantime. Billy town is the one thing I feel reasonably comfortable with right now. if that's a guilty then sweet, but yikes i feel lost.

[Micc]

Can you guys sell me on bepwei?

[Micc]

I voted him same reason as Karnage

Old epic mafia tell is that only a doctor or mafia comments on the nightkill

I’m not sold. Why is Mafia more likely than doc here?

[Micc]

Can you guys sell me on bepwei?

I'm going to make a hard right turn here. What do you think about BB as scum?

I’m open to being convinced

[Micc]

Just make the third vote, Micc.
You know you want to

What are you trying to accomplish with this post?

[Micc]

Can you guys sell me on bepwei?

I'm going to make a hard right turn here. What do you think about BB as scum?

I’m open to being convinced

Actually this isn’t even the whole truth. I have a lot of reasons to be suspicious of Molla but I don’t know that pushing a wagon there is what I want to be doing right now as opposed to finding Town reads. I’d like to see your (Karnage) thoughts more fleshed out as a topic of interaction between us.

[Micc]

Just make the third vote, Micc.
You know you want to

What are you trying to accomplish with this post?

I'm trying to point out how scummy you are.

As I implied, you were looking for approval to push Bepwei's wagon. I believe if you were really not looking to push that wagon, you would have voiced opinions directly against it or remained silent.

You’re also implying you want approval to make a wagon on me. I believe if you were really looking to push my wagon you would have stated your case directly and/or voted me.

[Micc]

VOTE: Gyro

Not doing this yesterday was a mistake

[Micc]

VOTE: Gyro

Not doing this yesterday was a mistake

This early in D2? I feel like we were in the middle of throwing accusations and that whole conversation stopped because you want to policy Lynch. Maybe wait on this until closer to EOD.

And you guys will ask my thoughts of who to lynch and frankly I don’t know. I dislike the reluctance to vote from Micc but i don’t necessarily blame him. The random change in BB’s behavior is interesting but i believe it to be NAI. In fact I think it makes me like him better, but the short responses earlier and seemingly voting for no reason didn’t sit well with me.

frankly, i don't know either.

I'm trying to find people in this game to town read and having a hard time. i helped lead a lynch that no one wanted to support day 1 and missed. day 2 i give people the chance to lead their own lynch, to convince me to go in their direction and no one cares to take it. That's where the conversation stopped from my point of view.

Whenever I scale out to think about this game on a holistic level I come back to how obvious it is that gyro isn't even trying to be helpful here. it's hard to justify not lynching him. so that's what I'm doing.

[Micc]

yeah please do that. then make a vote.

there's way too much apathy in the four of you who aren't voting right now.

[Micc]

Can you specify/quote what lines of discussion I killed with my vote? From my POV, Karnage had 24 hours to expand on a molla push and failed to take it. My conversation with Anaconda reached the point where I didn’t want to continue. Those were the only lines of discussion I was involved in, and I don’t see my vote as having killed them.

[Micc]

this game needs more karnage in it.

[Micc]

what does scum molla have to gain by making naked votes at the start of the day or flipping his vote around?

[Micc]

what does scum molla have to gain by making naked votes at the start of the day or flipping his vote around?

so we should just accept him as town for "reasons"?

He’s given or at least implied reasons for the things he’s done. You can chose to believe them or not, but dismissing their existence isn’t helping here. I have a hard time believing youre arguing in good faith here when you choose not to explain what motivation scum molla has to make naked votes or flip his vote around, all while molla implies that as Town he has make naked votes to reaction test and that his vote is moving with his reads.

[Micc]

@Micc, Who are your top scumreads atm?

I could make a case for anyone being scum right now. I think I’ve settled on billy, molla as Town and gyro as the best lynch for today but confidence levels are low.

[Micc]

Billy can I be in your town block?

[Micc]

You have been trying to move the game forward and providing logical explanations for pushes. Yes, I'd be comfortable with you in the town block. I see that Gyro is your desire for a push, what do you think of Karnage at the moment?

My biggest problem with karnage is that I don't feel like hes done much for scumhunting and the pushes he has made have felt like they come in bad faith. it doesn't feel like he wants to have a conversation about his scum reads as shown by his unwillingness to further expand on molla scum, and to dismiss my follow up question in post 410. I think a townie who wants to lynch their scum read is a little more eager to entertain those who are willing to hear the case. Go back to day 1 and he spent a lot of time with his vote on bepwei without pushing that case either and eventually got over to Jones for the hammer. None of these pushes feel genuine to me.

[Micc]

@Micc, Who are your top scumreads atm?

I could make a case for anyone being scum right now. I think I’ve settled on billy, molla as Town and gyro as the best lynch for today but confidence levels are low.

is gyro the best lynch just to keep him out of lylo?

Its the tie breaker yeah. But there's reasons to scum read him too. I think the nightkill choice comes from inexperienced scum which is a group that would include gyro. I think that a lot of his ignorance for how this game works is feigned, as evidenced by his lack of asking questions. I think that the opposition to his lynch being "policy" comes from at least one player being his teammate. he has no business being on the jones or molla wagons given a lack of stated reads on either of them.

[Micc]

You have been trying to move the game forward and providing logical explanations for pushes. Yes, I'd be comfortable with you in the town block. I see that Gyro is your desire for a push, what do you think of Karnage at the moment?

My biggest problem with karnage is that I don't feel like hes done much for scumhunting and the pushes he has made have felt like they come in bad faith. it doesn't feel like he wants to have a conversation about his scum reads as shown by his unwillingness to further expand on molla scum, and to dismiss my follow up question in post 410. I think a townie who wants to lynch their scum read is a little more eager to entertain those who are willing to hear the case. Go back to day 1 and he spent a lot of time with his vote on bepwei without pushing that case either and eventually got over to Jones for the hammer. None of these pushes feel genuine to me.

Do you think scum!Karnage makes the Arkias kill?

i'm undecided on this.

[Micc]

i don't feel comfortable using the nightkill to determine karnage's alignment is a better way to answer 423. also nice quote gore.

id like karnage to defend the position that gyro isn't a good lynch today. if if that's not his position, for him to argue for why his vote is a better vote than gyro.

predit: umm well, defend the gryo being apathetic town read i guess since he unvoted.

[Micc]

@Micc, Who are your top scumreads atm?

I could make a case for anyone being scum right now. I think I’ve settled on billy, molla as Town and gyro as the best lynch for today but confidence levels are low.

is gyro the best lynch just to keep him out of lylo?

Its the tie breaker yeah. But there's reasons to scum read him too. I think the nightkill choice comes from inexperienced scum which is a group that would include gyro. I think that a lot of his ignorance for how this game works is feigned, as evidenced by his lack of asking questions. I think that the opposition to his lynch being "policy" comes from at least one player being his teammate. he has no business being on the jones or molla wagons given a lack of stated reads on either of them.

and for karnage to speak to these reasons I stated for gyro being scum outside of policy.

[Micc]

oh masons also have 24 hours for redactions

No redactions. Thanks for modding.

I posted most of my thoughts between the mason and dead threads. Will probably be back with more after work. Newbies, please feel free to ask questions. I'm happy to answer best I can.

[Micc]

Good to know Micc and I had the solve.

yeah...we had it this time, just couldn't convert. Really enjoyed having another chance to play mason with you. The game was a bit of a drag, but you helped keep my head in it by continuing to ask for opinions in the mason thread. Too bad that right when we had built some momentum it lead to me looking at Karnage meta and stumbling on stuff I shouldn't have seen. I'm taking a break from playing, but would happily mason with you a third time in the future.