Newbie 1964 [Game Over]

[bepwei]

what experience have the rest of you newer players in mafia?

I’ve played quite a few games on another forum. Some quite interesting setups. This is my first here though. Not sure about the RVS on this site though haha. Day one is much more chill on my other site. But I can get behind it.

[bepwei]

I have played many games off site. Where I came from though, the RVS was way more chill. I’m not super used to voted people right out the gate haha.

[bepwei]

From a theory standpoint, I see making an RVS vote as unproductive for town. Scum hunting has to begin eventually and a productive member of the town will eagerly make it happen as early as possible.

IMO, RVS can be used to push someone to get them to squirm. It only really works if they don’t know it’s rvs. The goal of mafia isn’t really to find the scum it’s more to find people you can trust such that it’s impossible for mafia to win.

[bepwei]

Also, I’m still getting used to the forum and how to work it. I’m on mobile most of the time and sometimes shit doesn’t post and then comes back. Hence the double post with the exact same info. I’ll try my best to be more productive as I get more comfortable with the website.

[bepwei]

here's a suggestion - if you had to absolutely lynch someone right now, who would it be?

I hate to say this because it makes me look like I’m trying to blend in but probably our unhelpful friend. I frankly don’t see the suspicions you guys have on eachother. I haven’t seen anything that jumps out as scummy. I also know that any leans I get take a day or two to come out so I’ll let you know when they are more solid. Again sorry if that’s super unhelpful.

[bepwei]

^Can we lynch this please

He clearly doesn't want to play so I'd say let's just help him out

I'd agree with this at day end.

Arguably, this could be considered a sheep. Like it’s a perfect place for you to hide after being a main suspect of the town.

I have reread the whole thread and realized I missed a whole page of posts so go me. I still have pretty weak leads but I generally agree with the fact that things are being overanylized on some people.

[bepwei]

what is a policy lynch

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Policy_Lynch

This website is good for those kind of questions should you have more.

[bepwei]

^Can we lynch this please

He clearly doesn't want to play so I'd say let's just help him out

I'd agree with this at day end.

Arguably, this could be considered a sheep. Like it’s a perfect place for you to hide after being a main suspect of the town.

I have reread the whole thread and realized I missed a whole page of posts so go me. I still have pretty weak leads but I generally agree with the fact that things are being overanylized on some people.

Maybe you missed it, but I did first mention it all the way back in #27.
I don't really see the connection between this and being a place to hide. Could you clarify that maybe?

Sure, the policy Lynch ends the day getting no information about any of the voters. It’s a get off of jail free card for anyone looking to vote a possible townie out of the game (scum). As you are the most suspicious person right now in the eyes of the town, it would be beneficial for you to be able to vote someone without repercussions. I’ll look back at 27 now.

[bepwei]

I believe he's just a vt and not mafia because of the general 'tone' of the play. In Town of Salem or Throne of Lies, 'vanilla' roles that aren't aligned tend to act completely disinterested, since, in their minds, they have no power over the course of the game. Why do they need to pay attention? Someone else will/would, or an investigator will point a finger and cause a lead. This is inherently different than a mafia laying low, since of the flippant disregard. Whereas someone playing as a mafia member is just trying to stay under the radar, a VT generally doesn't _care_ about the radar. They're innocent, in their mind, and their play has no impact on the game as it goes.

I disagree. Maybe in ToS where there are so many roles, a VT really just has to not look the scummiest. This game has a large pool of VT's and without them, it is unlikely for the town to get a win. At least for me, it is more rewarding to get leads as a VT. I find his play as a lack of experience playing mafia. Whether that's on this site or on others. You know the culture is very different on this site, you're new to this too. In addition the 'wait for an investigator to point a finger' hurts town as we want that role to be protected (until later in the game). It's a bad play and that is the whole point of a policy lynch. I am in no way advocating for it because I, myself, am against the policy lynch this early in D1, but the whole point is to get someone out of the game who may hurt the town later. A VT's job is to look as much like town as possible. It's to allow power roles to gain information on the suspicious ones while building a group of people they can trust. If all the VT's find each other by not seeming innocent, that said group could win without the need for power roles. The issue is the mafia are trying to fit in with that group.

133 To answer your question, I always figure it's best to ask another question: If someone on your team is playing badly, does removing them make your team more likely to win? Town's advantage is the number game for awhile, as possible people who have which roles are wittled down. I think he's not playing good for a vanilla townie.

This is the question to ask when making a policy lynch. Personally since we brought up the idea of a policy lynch, he has not been 'hurting' the town per se. The issue arises if we think he may end up voting erratically later in the game. Anyway, I think that is a question for D2 once we have more information of the night kill and what flips from the lynch.

[bepwei]

Nothing or random lynch. I play tos and TOL and stuff like mafia that has no prevalent d1

This gets us about as little information as possible on D1 despite there already being a lack of it like you noticed. A NoElim gets us no info on a role and no information of voters that killed off a possible townie or mafia. It's also a great place for a scum to hide as there are not repercussions to that vote if the town agrees to it. A random lynch does the same thing just gives us info on one role. Again, this creates a place for someone to vote without being on the line for who dies. Because of the lack of knowledge on D1 it is extremely important to pick someone suspicious to vote for to give town more information. Your ideas don't solve your problem of not having enough information to make decisions on D1.

[bepwei]

you're not paying attention if you think it's a sheep vote.

you can't deny the timing of your vote is suspect though

Not sure how the timing makes it suspect. He has been suspicious on jones for a while.

Sorry for the inactivity this weekend, I kinda got swamped with stuff from school

[bepwei]

you're not paying attention if you think it's a sheep vote.

you can't deny the timing of your vote is suspect though

Not sure how the timing makes it suspect. He has been suspicious on jones for a while.

Sorry for the inactivity this weekend, I kinda got swamped with stuff from school

he's been suspicious for a while but didn't vote until Billy did. that implies it was Billy's vote that prompted BB's vote. That is suspect

I find the fact that he unvoted so quickly more suspicious than the fact he voted him after billy.

[bepwei]

Folks we are more than halfway into D1, we haven't had a wagon more than 3 people on it at all, and the only 3 person wagon we had was on Jones and lasted for under 12 hours. This D1 sucks and I'm not getting any information from it. All the folks that arent voting, go somewhere, or one of you will probably end up eating a compromise lynch. At this point, I'm not voting Micc Karnage, or BBM today. Like to have the spots that arent voting say 1) what they think about the Jones wagon; 2) what they think about the Jones response to that wagon; and 3) who is a better vote if not Jones and why.

If you aren’t getting information, push harder on someone. As soon as LCpl exclaimed he was town, you seemed to back off. You want people to push yet you’re afraid to do it yourself. If you need information on day one, you need to press it out of people. If you want a vote you got it sir. You’re managing to look like town without actually doing anything. I don’t like the fact that you are looking for people to just follow your vote.
VOTE: Billy Pilgram

[bepwei]

What a world we live in

Jones wagon goes to l-2 and his response is to quit but not really quit and y’all are calling it a bad push.

It’s been a bad push cause none of y’all piled on to make it an l-1 wagon when he decided to throw hands in the air and play victim.

I don’t remember you voting? Could you link posts where you voted or unvoted.

I like billy/molla/Karnage for town, gyro and Jones as scum and everyone else as newbies who I have a hard time distinguishing between

bad

Newbie scum hunting and actually being scum.

[bepwei]

Where did I back off? When he said he was town, I said the appeal to emotion from him sounded fake. What post have I made after my initial post that was backing off of Jones. And in the post that you were responding to, didnt I ask everyone what their thoughts were on the Jones wagon and Jones' response?

FWIW, I dont think either of these are good, but I think Bep's post is worse. I made that case at 155. Bep posts before I flip out about the game state, so if it was my push that was bad, he could have voted there.

You never really pushed it hard. All you did was dump your vote and then after jones’s AtE, you complained about the wagon being weak. @Micc did a similar thing. He never posted his reasons to vote until much later after jones left. I dislike the fact that the people starting the wagon blame the people not on the wagon for the lack of strength. I feel that you should have been showing Jones the reasons he is suspicious rather than telling people to join the wagon. This could be a difference in philosophy, but evidence puts more pressure than just a L-1 wagon. Especially with Zeppin the in the game on not confortable with an L-1 yet. I feel that Billy is almost using the wagon as a way to hide. You’ve made 2 posts really accusing him (155, 173) until you were upset that the wagon wasn’t strong. At the risk of sounding like I defending LCpl, I personally wasn’t super suspicious of him and I actually trust his AtE. It’s not a wagon I’m was comfortable joining blindly.

[bepwei]

@Karnage, you had the defense of Jones during the first wagon, what do you make of that slot at the moment?

I think he's been fairly scummy since then. the FOS/Unvote of Micc really sticks out

This to me seems like a way to not vote a scum buddy but trying not to look suspicious themselves. If LCpl flips scum i think this is a good place to look.

[bepwei]

Spoiler:

Where did I back off? When he said he was town, I said the appeal to emotion from him sounded fake. What post have I made after my initial post that was backing off of Jones. And in the post that you were responding to, didnt I ask everyone what their thoughts were on the Jones wagon and Jones' response?

FWIW, I dont think either of these are good, but I think Bep's post is worse. I made that case at 155. Bep posts before I flip out about the game state, so if it was my push that was bad, he could have voted there.

You never really pushed it hard. All you did was dump your vote and then after jones’s AtE, you complained about the wagon being weak. @Micc did a similar thing. He never posted his reasons to vote until much later after jones left. I dislike the fact that the people starting the wagon blame the people not on the wagon for the lack of strength. I feel that you should have been showing Jones the reasons he is suspicious rather than telling people to join the wagon. This could be a difference in philosophy, but evidence puts more pressure than just a L-1 wagon. Especially with Zeppin the in the game on not confortable with an L-1 yet. I feel that Billy is almost using the wagon as a way to hide. You’ve made 2 posts really accusing him (155, 173) until you were upset that the wagon wasn’t strong. At the risk of sounding like I defending LCpl, I personally wasn’t super suspicious of him and I actually trust his AtE. It’s not a wagon I’m was comfortable joining blindly.

What did you expect me to do to push it? I cased it, I asked other people both that voted him and some of those that weren't voting him why they either were or weren't voting. You're saying something about evidence, but aside from a guilty, which literally cant exist on D1, what do you expect me to be doing as far as evidence? I laid out how he seemed scummy from before my vote, then I laid out how he seemed scummy after my vote. Also, the shade you just threw at Karnage feels like you may be setting up for a push of Karnage down the line, mostly if Jones flips red. If Jones flips red, I want to revisit your slot before Karnage.

Also, how do I push something if not asking more people to join the wagon? And if your answer is by providing more evidence, how do I do that when the person stops posting?

Conf town - BP
Townread - Micc
Town lean - Karnage
Nulltown - BBM
Null - Arkias, Gyro, Heavy Anaconda(though this one is shading more toward nulltown)
Nullscum - Bepwei
Scumlean - Jones
Scumread -
Conf scum-

I felt your focus shifted from trying to prove him as scum to getting people to vote him. I expected you to be quoting reasons beyond what was stated in your vote post. There is nothing you can do once the person stops posting, but then (this may be more toward micc) being upset about the state of the game because people don’t agree with you was a little annoying.

I will clairify my karnage thoughts in the next post. Mobile sucks sorry.

[bepwei]

@Karnage, you had the defense of Jones during the first wagon, what do you make of that slot at the moment?

I think he's been fairly scummy since then. the FOS/Unvote of Micc really sticks out

This to me seems like a way to not vote a scum buddy but trying not to look suspicious themselves. If LCpl flips scum i think this is a good place to look.

or he's at L-1 and I'm not willing to hammer him at the moment but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ok I understand LCpl isn’t here to defend, but I was looking for something more than a one line response like “yea he’s suspicious because of the reasons already stated” idk if that’s a sheep or not (new term to me) but it stuck out to me.

This doesn’t make me suspicious of you yet,but it is something that I think should be looked into if LCpl flips scum. I am simply stating something I noticed and looking for clarification (which you provided)

[bepwei]

Ok I understand LCpl isn’t here to defend, but I was looking for something more than a one line response like “yea he’s suspicious because of the reasons already stated” idk if that’s a sheep or not (new term to me) but it stuck out to me.

This doesn’t make me suspicious of you yet,but it is something that I think should be looked into if LCpl flips scum. I am simply stating something I noticed and looking for clarification (which you provided)

who ARE you suspicious of? or if you prefer, who do you trust so far?

Well currently my vote is on Billy. For similar reasons, Micc is in that group. I would have Billy in scum leaning group and Micc closer to null scum. LCpl is confusing which I think is why town is voting him. I’m pretty confused with BB but I am nowhere near ready to vote them. Probably on the only person I trust right now is Arkias, actually.

[bepwei]

Sure, the policy Lynch ends the day getting no information about any of the voters. It’s a get off of jail free card for anyone looking to vote a possible townie out of the game

(scum)

. As you are the most suspicious person right now

in the eyes of the town

, it would be beneficial for you to be able to vote someone without repercussions. I’ll look back at 27 now.

I've made this same mistake as scum. Who other than scum would be looking to vote a townie out of the game? Why the need to specify "in the eyes of the town"?

If you aren’t getting information, push harder on someone. As soon as LCpl exclaimed he was town, you seemed to back off. You want people to push yet you’re afraid to do it yourself. If you need information on day one, you need to press it out of people. If you want a vote you got it sir.

You’re managing to look like town without actually doing anything

. I don’t like the fact that you are looking for people to just follow your vote.
VOTE: Billy Pilgram

If he looks like town, why aren't you townreading him? unless you mean he looks like town to actual townies

VOTE: bepwei

Whenever I say “I the eyes of the town” that usually mean the majority of the players agree with that statement, but not necessarily me. In that case I didn’t agree with the majority of the town.

All the people who thought about a policy Lynch is a possible town lycnhcing a possible town. I’m not sure who said it but they said something along the lines of “idc what zepp’s allignment is, I don’t want to go into lylo with him” that to me is I would vote out a townie to give town a better chance of a win.

I guess I mis spoke. The meaning behind the second bolded part is that he is making himself look like he getting information while really just sitting in the back and not getting a whole lot. He was/is blending in with the other more active members of the game. I scumread him because I don’t think he is contributing very much and he is trying to grow his wagon to cover up his tracks. I hope that clarifies.

[bepwei]

@Bepwei - if I'm scum, am I trying to blend in, or am I trying to deepwolf? Because it seems like you're suggesting both in your explanation to Karnage.

I am not familiar to the term deep wolf, but from the definition you gave below, I would say almost both... you’re trying to deepwolf. You’re trying too hard (imo) to get people on your side. So you’re deep wolfing to blend in if that makes sense. Sorry for my lack of the correct terms. Let me know if you need more clarification.

[bepwei]

@Karnage - kinda curious as to why you haven't declared intent yet. You felt like the Jones slot was scummy and then Gikded hasn't done anything to redeem it, you dont have your vote on anyone and it's like 36 hours until deadline. What are you thinking right now?

Heavy doesnt seem to understand Micc's point, but I dont know if hes misinterpreting it in bad faith.

Wow, I’m not anybody? /s

Do you have rising suspicion of Karnage because of this? A few posts ago you were worried about me having suspicions of Karnage. If the Gilded slot flips red, will that change you opinion of Karnage?

[bepwei]

Do you have rising suspicion of Karnage because of this? A few posts ago you were worried about me having suspicions of Karnage.

If the Gilded slot flips red, will that change you opinion of Karnage

?

this make me think bepwei/guilded scum team. Setting me up for a mislynch when guilded flips scum. Its not the first time either: 239 was a response to me.

This doesn’t make me suspicious of you yet,but it is something that I think should be looked into if LCpl flips scum

. I am simply stating something I noticed and looking for clarification (which you provided)

The reasoning behind that question is that Billy now started to see the same thing I did. You have yet to really add anything as to why you think the Gilded slot is likely to be scum other than what has already been said. I dislike the inconsistency in the fact that you find them suspicious but don’t vote and don’t really explain your feelings behind it. All we’ve gotten from you about the gilded slot is that the replacement doesn’t make you feel better about it and that the FoS from LCpl.

[bepwei]

At the risk of sounding like I defending LCpl, I personally wasn’t super suspicious of him and I actually trust his AtE. It’s not a wagon I’m was comfortable joining blindly.

@billy this was my initial thought while accusing you. I personally trusted the AtE from Jones and never really felt anything strong enough to vote. I currently am not ready to hammer Gilded and would prefer someone else to be voted out over her. (Hence my vote on you)

[bepwei]

At the risk of sounding like I defending LCpl, I personally wasn’t super suspicious of him and I actually trust his AtE. It’s not a wagon I’m was comfortable joining blindly.

@billy this was my initial thought while accusing you. I personally trusted the AtE from Jones and never really felt anything strong enough to vote. I currently am not ready to hammer Gilded and would prefer someone else to be voted out over her. (Hence my vote on you)

But alot happened after the AtE. What are you making of that? Also, are you just town reading because of the AtE?

If so, I can show you tons of games where I saw someone throw up their hands with an AtE and the flip red.

LCpl was a nullscum until the AtE when I believed it. I’m not exactly sure what you mean when you refer to the stuff after the AtE. I town lean the Gilded slot currently. I never saw the stuff against LCpl that compelling and more of an attack against his play. That could be me not used to the site meta, but the AtE definitely made me feel better about the slot if that’s what you’re asking.

[bepwei]

The reasoning behind that question is that Billy now started to see the same thing I did. You have yet to really add anything as to why you think the Gilded slot is likely to be scum other than what has already been said. I dislike the inconsistency in the fact that you find them suspicious but don’t vote and don’t really explain your feelings behind it. All we’ve gotten from you about the gilded slot is that the replacement doesn’t make you feel better about it and that the FoS from LCpl.

So is Billy no longer a scum read for you?

I never said that... he may agree with me, but that doesn’t clear him.. sure it makes me feel better about him, but that would be letting him pocket me without Billy having to try.

[bepwei]

The reasoning behind that question is that Billy now started to see the same thing I did. You have yet to really add anything as to why you think the Gilded slot is likely to be scum other than what has already been said. I dislike the inconsistency in the fact that you find them suspicious but don’t vote and don’t really explain your feelings behind it. All we’ve gotten from you about the gilded slot is that the replacement doesn’t make you feel better about it and that the FoS from LCpl.

So is Billy no longer a scum read for you?

I never said that... he may agree with me, but that doesn’t clear him.. sure it makes me feel better about him, but that would be letting him pocket me without Billy having to try.

"Billy now started to see the same thing I did" doesn't make sense to me when you don't pair it with an unvote. the wording implies that you know he is town yet you're still voting him.

Nowhere in that sentence does it indicate his alignment. The ‘same thing as me’ was included to tell you why I brought up the the connections to the Gilded slot flipping red and your possible alignment a second time.

[bepwei]

"Billy now started to see the same thing I did" doesn't make sense to me when you don't pair it with an unvote. the wording implies that you know he is town yet you're still voting him.

Nowhere in that sentence does it indicate his alignment. The ‘same thing as me’ was included to tell you why I brought up the the connections to the Gilded slot flipping red and your possible alignment a second time.

it shows you believe he was seeing things from a town perspective because if he was scum any thing he sees would be FAKE!

So a scum never should agree with the town? If they are trying to blend in, they would have to agree with town at some point...

[bepwei]

Quotes:

Spoiler:

At the risk of sounding like I defending LCpl, I personally wasn’t super suspicious of him and I actually trust his AtE. It’s not a wagon I’m was comfortable joining blindly.

@billy this was my initial thought while accusing you. I personally trusted the AtE from Jones and never really felt anything strong enough to vote. I currently am not ready to hammer Gilded and would prefer someone else to be voted out over her. (Hence my vote on you)

But alot happened after the AtE. What are you making of that? Also, are you just town reading because of the AtE?

If so, I can show you tons of games where I saw someone throw up their hands with an AtE and the flip red.

LCpl was a nullscum until the AtE when I believed it. I’m not exactly sure what you mean when you refer to the stuff after the AtE. I town lean the Gilded slot currently. I never saw the stuff against LCpl that compelling and more of an attack against his play. That could be me not used to the site meta, but the AtE definitely made me feel better about the slot if that’s what you’re asking.

Why are you town leaning the Gilded slot currently? You didnt see the LCPL things that strongly, so how does it make you feel that the first thing Gilded did was explain why she agreed with people's reasons for scumreading Jones?

Then given that she admitted there wasnt much to her reads list, on what basis are you town reading her?

@Billy, I townlean gilded because her reasoning is sound and it seemed like a genuine VT reveal to me. Just because she said her predecessor looked scummy doesn’t indicate her alignment. She can’t control what LCpl did. If I don’t find the LCpl evidence compelling and I trust the VT reveal, why should I be suspicious of gilded?

[bepwei]

So a scum never should agree with the town? If they are trying to blend in, they would have to agree with town at some point...

"Hey scum!Billy, I'm glad you are seeing things the way I am! please tell me how your fake reads are changing atm and how your fake read on karnage will change when your partner flips red. I ask this fully aware that as scum, you will likely try to blend in." - bepwei

Not sure what else I can say to convince you otherwise..

[bepwei]

I am confused why they would choose arkias as their NK. Any idea?

[bepwei]

I voted him same reason as Karnage

Old epic mafia tell is that only a doctor or mafia comments on the nightkill

You've never had people comment on the NK? That is one of the tells of who could be mafia. The reason I posted that is because Arkias was one the more inactive people toward the end of the day. The only reason I can think of for lynching Arkias is he was very analytical, and was not under heat from the town. I am confident there was at least one scum on the LCpl/Gilded wagon. Of course, that does not clear my name, but some reasoning behind your vote, @BBMolla, would be nice. Karnage didn't really give reasoning either, but he was suspicious of me yesterday, so I expected his vote today.

[bepwei]

VOTE: Billy

You checked me and you're claiming a guilty now? With your soft yesterday how the hell would I leave you alive today?

I don't really understand what soft means. Could someone explain what this post means in simpler terms for a newbie? thanks!

[bepwei]

BBM - you gotta explain how you both think I'm scum but are comfortable going to my second preferred lynch when you left me.

bro read my posts I liked your reaction to my vote

aka I don't think you're scum

Why DID you think Billy was scum?

[bepwei]

VOTE: Gyro

Not doing this yesterday was a mistake

This early in D2? I feel like we were in the middle of throwing accusations and that whole conversation stopped because you want to policy Lynch. Maybe wait on this until closer to EOD.

And you guys will ask my thoughts of who to lynch and frankly I don’t know. I dislike the reluctance to vote from Micc but i don’t necessarily blame him. The random change in BB’s behavior is interesting but i believe it to be NAI. In fact I think it makes me like him better, but the short responses earlier and seemingly voting for no reason didn’t sit well with me.

[bepwei]

@Billy another reason could be straight confusion. To send us down a wild goose chase. I’m leaning toward that because there wasn’t a whole lot of information to begin with. A NK like you said gives info and it isn’t super obvious which one happened right now. Is there one option you think is more likely to have occurred.

[bepwei]

In an attempt to get things going:

I think Micc’s reluctance to vote and sudden jump onto a policy lynch is suspect. When people started commenting he jumped onto a policy lynch that just killed discussion. @Billy if you want discussion, having your vote on a policy lynch isn’t going to help.

VOTE: Micc

[bepwei]

@Billy here are my thoughts on the last few pages. I had time to sit down at my computer tonight so enjoy a shit ton of quotes.

Spoiler:

what does scum molla have to gain by making naked votes at the start of the day or flipping his vote around?

so we should just accept him as town for "reasons"?

He’s given or at least implied reasons for the things he’s done. You can chose to believe them or not, but dismissing their existence isn’t helping here. I have a hard time believing youre arguing in good faith here when you choose not to explain what motivation scum molla has to make naked votes or flip his vote around, all while molla implies that as Town he has make naked votes to reaction test and that his vote is moving with his reads.

This logic here is making me feel better about BB. Like you said the votes are a little off, but I can't find a scum motivation for them. I do not think this should even be in the question for a wagon today.

Honestly, Karnage I'm feeling a little uneasy about you.

You seemed to position yourself weirdly wrt to Jones/Gilded yesterday. You were in a spot where he wasnt your preferred lynch (Bepwei was), but you made it clear that you thought the slot was scummy and ultimately hammered.

Now, in a game where people are getting scumread for pushing people that was maybe a risk, but maybe not. Although, I dont think you would have killed Arkias. I think that you probably would have killed Molla or one of the more active players. So your day play has me scumleaning you, but the nk makes me think it's not you.

And honestly, I'm lost in this game because I don't feel like we've got a good townblock.

Look if you think I'm town, come interact with me so we can get somewhere. If you think I'm scum interact with me and tell me why. Let me sort some people.

I have a scenario in my head where molla/micc are town and I feel like we will win easy but if I'm wrong I could be would be pushing mislynches and making it easy for them as a scum team. I flip flop in my head about whether I'm right because I see things from them that I think is scummy. As a result I think my play has been kind of erratic.

regarding jones/guilded, I was townreading the slot but when they unvoted/fos'd Micc I questioned my read. I didn't like anything from guildedsun once they replaced in so I felt good about lynching the slot. I was wrong.

my bepwie read is the inverse of molla/micc. If I accept molla/micc as town, bepwie is scum (with either anaconda or gyro)

So i'm finding myself in this quantum mechanical state of players existing as town/scum reads simultaneously

Could you elaborate on my read? There is no way with these reads that BB and Micc are town that i am as well? For me I am leaning more toward Billy and BB being the townies here. I find the 'desperation' for info today a a strictly town play. Im still making up my mind on Karnage.

@Micc, Who are your top scumreads atm?

I could make a case for anyone being scum right now. I think I’ve settled on billy, molla as Town and gyro as the best lynch for today but confidence levels are low.

is gyro the best lynch just to keep him out of lylo?

imo no. I honestly dont think its worth voting gyro just to keep him out of lylo. I not suggesting anyone wants this, but should we find some genuine scum, they should be voted before gyro.

You have been trying to move the game forward and providing logical explanations for pushes. Yes, I'd be comfortable with you in the town block. I see that Gyro is your desire for a push, what do you think of Karnage at the moment?

My biggest problem with karnage is that I don't feel like hes done much for scumhunting and the pushes he has made have felt like they come in bad faith. it doesn't feel like he wants to have a conversation about his scum reads as shown by his unwillingness to further expand on molla scum, and to dismiss my follow up question in post 410. I think a townie who wants to lynch their scum read is a little more eager to entertain those who are willing to hear the case. Go back to day 1 and he spent a lot of time with his vote on bepwei without pushing that case either and eventually got over to Jones for the hammer. None of these pushes feel genuine to me.

The way Karnage played EoD D1 was definetly weird. I definetly think he treated my slot weird. He did not push me super hard, but also soft attacked the Jones/Guilded slot. I realy dont know how to feel about this. I was scum leaning him D1, but now I almost feel better about him. My thoughts are really jumbled rn. Another read through might help this.

Do you think scum!Karnage makes the Arkias kill?

Nope. I really dont see him making that kill. I see karnage going for someone active and not really on the radar of many people. I see karnage going for a Billy or a honestly BB for the soft. Again I expressed my confusion for the NK earlier and I still do not know what to make of it.

I feel pretty good with this lynch after this whole last page tbqh

I’m at at L-1 don’t any of you fuckers hammer without a claim

Ok so we are not lynching this today. I think we can agree on that.

tl;dr

There aren't scum intentions in the BB slot. At this point can we call the BB claim a soft claim? Not lynching this today
The Gyro slot is not my first choice for a lynch if we can find a candidate for scum. There has started to be some people scum leaning gyro, but its still very much a policy lynch.
I like the block of town Billy/BBMolla/Karnage but I cant help but think there is at least one scum in that block. I am confident on BB and Billy being town. Karnage I lean town because i dont see him killing Arkias. Micc slot im still not sure how to feel. For now until we can read his replacement

UNVOTE:

[bepwei]

There aren't scum intentions in the BB slot. At this point can we call the BB claim a soft claim? Not lynching this today
The Gyro slot is not my first choice for a lynch if we can find a candidate for scum. There has started to be some people scum leaning gyro, but its still very much a policy lynch.
I like the block of town Billy/BBMolla/Karnage but I cant help but think there is at least one scum in that block. I am confident on BB and Billy being town. Karnage I lean town because i dont see him killing Arkias. Micc slot im still not sure how to feel. For now until we can read his replacement

UNVOTE:

so by POE are you scum reading Anaconda?

I guess... I felt good on D1 about him D2 his interactions with Micc were weird. It isn’t something I’m really confident voting right now.

[bepwei]

@Bep - theres two scum in this game. Who are they?

Micc and anaconda. Idk about RC tbh I haven’t looked into him much. I think there is a maf in the active group and one in the inactive group.

[bepwei]

3 things to say in response to that

1) when I have a dead thread read I usually have only read the thread once and at one time which doesn't give me a high quality read usually
2) you've been paranoiaing my slot all day before I subbed in. Why are you talking to me like I'm outed town
3) lol do you think that this is going to help you

1: yes I need to read the thread again, I have just been very busy with school and work.
2: not sure exactly what outed town means, but from what I think it means, I am not even voting you. I think I’m just confused?
3: Billy asked for it... otherwise I wouldn’t have posted it. I know it doesn’t help anyone to post a wall of reads. That’s why I tried to keep it concise.

[bepwei]

What are everyone's thoughts on massclaim. We're at like 2 days left. We need to get moving if we're gonna do it.

I’m willing to

[bepwei]

Ok if hes staying, hes my priority for today. Karnage put him to L-1. I swear if anyone hammers before we get a claim, it's an instant scumclaim.

Bep - why are you so convinced this slot is town?
Molla - you unvoted midway through the day, why?
Heavy - where you at on this?

Gyro - you got any thoughts on which is more likely scum and why? Also, Micc isnt playing anymore. That slot is now RC.

The gyro slot? When did I say that? I’m not SURE it’s town, I just think we can do better than a policy lynch today. I am not opposed to it, I just prefer something with actual evidence rather than just lynching shit play. However, I am not opposed to it. If we don’t get anyone else I will Hammer. So let’s get a claim from gyro.

[bepwei]

@RC, is there a reason you see me as scum? I can’t really respond to that vote other than saying you’re wrong..

[bepwei]

The gyro slot? When did I say that? I’m not SURE it’s town, I just think we can do better than a policy lynch today. I am not opposed to it,

I just prefer something with actual evidence

rather than just lynching shit play.

then make a case against the player you would rather lynch

However, I am not opposed to it. If we don’t get anyone else I will Hammer.

So let’s get a claim from gyro

.

is this an intent to hammer?

I’m getting only town vibes from RC and that’s the slot I didn’t feel great about while Micc was in the game. It is intent to hammer. I don’t think I will do it right away and I don’t think gyro will respond soon either.

@gyro I intend to hammer please claim role

[bepwei]

why exactly are you getting town vibes from me

what am i doing that deserves to be townread

You created discussion on a dead thread. Like you got us moving again. All a scum would have to do is sit back. Also they’re vibes, so mostly a gut read.

Your turn: what have I done to deserve getting scum read?

[bepwei]

@jamelia any thoughts now that you’re caught up?

[bepwei]

how so? there's a chance gyro/jamelia is town (the risk) but its worth it for the decent chance they are scum and if not, the slot has been detrimental to town and would be a liability in lylo (the reward).

How is the slot a liability? The whole point of the Gyro wagon was because you could not trust GYRO in lylo. I think we can trust Jamelia lylo as someone who wont fuck something up. Are you saying the slot has a liability because there isnt very much to go off of from previous days? The gyro wagon was hardly a scum read and really was just a policy imo.

[bepwei]

Also Karnage and Jamelia are L-1 if im not mistaken

[bepwei]

[/quote]

liability was in reference to gyro. the original comment was made in 523 before gyro replaced out

I was asking how a slot can a liability. I was refencing the post made in 652 where you specifically said Gyro/Jamelia not just gyro.

what do you think about RC and his fluctuating reads on gyro/jamelia?

I think its a little suspect, but the initial scum read was before Jamelia had caught up. I can see where a read can chenge after interacting solely with one slot for 2 pages.. However I do seem to remember RC saying he townread Gyro so, im not super sure.

p-edit: I think we are both at L-1 so anybody that isn't voting one or the other should start deciding which on they would hammer

Currently working on this part..

[bepwei]

I suck at this whole quoting format.. *facepalm*

[bepwei]

Im not convinced with Karnage. Like I feel bad because i cant make up my mind on who to vote for. These replacements make it really hard to read

[bepwei]

I am not scum?.. not sure what you want from me.. By PoE my scum team is Karnage/Heavy

VOTE: Karnage

[bepwei]

Heavy should hammer whenever he gets on so go win it for me boys!

[bepwei]

Its either me or jamelia. everybody needs to pick a side

don't you guys DARE lynch anybody but me or jamelia

RC is trying to find the "other" PR right now. don't do anything to help him

Is this your strongest scumread at the moment? Same with RC / Karnage? (Asking both of you the same question)

PoE leaves me with a lynch pool of: bepwei = jamelia > anaconda

I'd lynch either you or bepwei atm

What changed?

[bepwei]

bepwei becomes number one then. for the stuff I linked already and skimming my notes I have written down that he hasn't posted any real reads. As a result I think he's more likely to flip scum than anaconda so with maybe 6 hours left until the deadline that's good enough for me.

Heavy has posted more reads than I have? The person getting prodded? I can go back and link reads, but there is no way heavy has more.

[bepwei]

That defense feels kinda whataboutist

It is. There isnt anything for me to reply to. nobody has really posted reasons other than Karnage and his are rather flawed.

[bepwei]

How much is longer until EoD? I cannot be on much longer. Ill work on reasons for my reads before I die.

[bepwei]

billy pilgrim - Mason claim I believe it. I saw his interaction D2 as genuine to me and have no reason to doubt
heavy anaconda - arguably lurked. Hasn’t voted much and
Jamelia - I see his replacement as genuine town. He has interacted with RC and Karnage well and furthered town as a result.
radiantcowbells - Not only a Mason claim, but also has furthered the game farther than some people who have been in the game the whole time.
BBmolla - I see his interactions as super weird. Like he has been posting reads but then like doesn’t really push them hard. I'm referring to the SoD2. I could see this slot flipping red but I doubt it his intentions seem genuine and has furthered town discussion.
Karnage - suspicions started with the weirdness around the LCpl/Gilded slot. His reaction to the RC claim seemed weird and disingenuine.

Ultimately, Karnage needed someone to flip to to save his life. Unfortunately that was me. I think the best course of action would be a Karnage lynch then a Heavy lynch. I understand this isn’t really useful, but before I die, I thought I should let everything out. Similar to Karnage, I intend to self hammer before I leave. Also if I am/have been slow recently its because im working on some scholarship essays atm.

[bepwei]

VOTE: Heavy Anaconda
Im suspicious and a self prez

[bepwei]

I believe you are being sincere Bep, but why did you do that?

well the town has been following RC this whole time and figured that was my best chance at survival. Also thats more info than many others have been giving for votes. Asking this from a newbie perspective, why is that vote change sus?

[bepwei]

Jesus I wish more people were online.

worst case hammer me.

Can you give me 15 minutes to finish my last catchup then you're free?

Ill be here

[bepwei]

I think Heavy by PoE

[bepwei]

One of the advantages of lynching Karnage over Bepwei is I totally buy that he was trying to PR hunt me and Molla and so if Karnage flips scum I can reasonably confidently townread Bbmolla.

even with the BBMolla soft claim? I think karnage would have already killed BB

[bepwei]

If Bepwei flips town I'm reasonably confident that it's correct that Anacondra is scum and then you guys will have to solve Karnage/Bbmolla.

How do I indicate the alignment of Heavy?

[bepwei]

sorry, what is SvS?

[bepwei]

VOTE: Karnage

Fine.

This is L-2 right? I want to make sure before I accidentally hammer

[bepwei]

VOTE: Karnage
Sorry Karnage, but thanks for self hammering im ready for bed

[bepwei]

Ok this is MyLo right? That means we need to not vote until we are sure or else someone could quick hammer? This is my first game on site and first lylo, so any suggestions would be appreciated

[bepwei]

@bepwei and Jemelia
Who do you feel comfortable voting for and who will you absolutely not vote?

Not voting you. You’re our only confirmed. I don’t think Jamelia is a good choice today. I like his reads and how he has been fighting for what he wants. This may be more of me letting myself get pocketed though, so I wouldn’t trust this read. I was leaning away from molla today, but with the role reveals from you and RC, the soft doesn’t make a whole lot of sense and should have been NKed imo. I am comfortable with a heavy vote today I said yesterday and I still think this slot is scum.

[bepwei]

@Molla who is town?

[bepwei]

I personally believe it's a scum team of

Anacondra/Molla --> Bep.

I don't really believe in a Bep vote atm. I understand the logic against them but I just have a gut feeling especially after their posts when they were on L-1

Is this saying you think I’m scum or not scum? I’m specifically confused about the notation in bold.

Later you said you didn’t want to lynch heavy (sorry on mobile hard to quote multiple posts) either. Does that mean you want a molla lynch? I’m very confused on your stance. Who is your top choice for lynch today?

[bepwei]

Why doesn’t my soft make sense

If I provide my town games where I soft as vt almost every time will you still think it doesn’t make sense

It should have been NKed. It doesn’t make sense for arkias to be chosen over a soft imo. No idc what you did in other games. It’s the fact that you weren’t NKed for it.

[bepwei]

Bep is a fucking robot

How so? Who am I copying? Like what was the point of this post? I have given my opinions and thoughts. So far your thoughts are “idfk” so...

[bepwei]

Also, what I’m saying is - if the final 3 was me, you and Ana, I’d be more inclined to believe you were keeping Ana as a target. I’d rather try getting someone out who is more active. That’s what I’m saying.

I’ve already said my main scum lead is Molla.

Thanks for the clairification! I missed you say molla was main scum lead. I would say I prefer a heavy lynch today, but I am not opposed to Molla either. My lynch order would be heavy > molla > jam > Billy.

[bepwei]

@bepwei and Jemelia
Who do you feel comfortable voting for and who will you absolutely not vote?

Not voting you. You’re our only confirmed. I don’t think Jamelia is a good choice today. I like his reads and how he has been fighting for what he wants. This may be more of me letting myself get pocketed though, so I wouldn’t trust this read. I was leaning away from molla today, but with the role reveals from you and RC, the soft doesn’t make a whole lot of sense and should have been NKed imo. I am comfortable with a heavy vote today I said yesterday and I still think this slot is scum.

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS REASONING IT'S BEEP BOOP AS FUCK

are you foreign though that might explain it

Nope that’s how thoughts work in my head and so that’s how they come out in posts. Sorry that irritates you. As to why Billy is on the list: he is in the game. I put it there to show he is the last person I would lynch today.

[bepwei]

Why doesn’t my soft make sense

If I provide my town games where I soft as vt almost every time will you still think it doesn’t make sense

It should have been NKed. It doesn’t make sense for arkias to be chosen over a soft imo. No idc what you did in other games. It’s the fact that you weren’t NKed for it.

I think bep is scum here. Now BEP is acting like Molla was the obvious N1 kill, when bep asked what a soft was on D2 when Karnage and I talked about Molla's soft.

Didn’t you say molla was the obv NK? Also just because I didn’t know the terminology doesn’t mean I recognized that as someone threatening to investigate thus hinting at a role..

[bepwei]

Why doesn’t my soft make sense

If I provide my town games where I soft as vt almost every time will you still think it doesn’t make sense

It should have been NKed. It doesn’t make sense for arkias to be chosen over a soft imo. No idc what you did in other games. It’s the fact that you weren’t NKed for it.

I think bep is scum here. Now BEP is acting like Molla was the obvious N1 kill, when bep asked what a soft was on D2 when Karnage and I talked about Molla's soft.

Didn’t you say molla was the obv NK? Also just because I didn’t know the terminology doesn’t mean I recognized that as someone threatening to investigate thus hinting at a role..

Yes, I did, but you now saying that makes me feel like you were deliberately attempting to pocket me and now you're upset it didnt work.

How is that a pocket though? Because I agreed with you? Not sure how that could be a pocket when that WAS the obv NK. Like there is t a question..

[bepwei]

I dont see any Molla team making the Arkias kill.

This is a good point. I’m inclined to agree. I know I’m town. PoE say jam and heavy. At risk of looking like I’m just pointing the finger elsewhere, I’m getting weird vibes off the recent jam posts.

[bepwei]

The game was modded very well. thanks @skitt
Also, this game was super helpful to all the people who helped me with terminology. Ultimately, this was a good learning experience. Thank you.