Mini Normal 2107 (Game Over)
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profii Jack of All Trades
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This is also why I am voting - I caught someone saying the exact same line.In post 25, Saudade wrote: Wanna guess what other person I know said the exact same line he did and turned out to be scum?- profii
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You're not another one of these people that wont scum hunt on day 1 are you ?
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How do you feel if I said I can't work with people who think policy votes are the best way to go on day 1?In post 53, Wimpy wrote:
No but I’m not really into rvs voting, rvs was basically over, and I honestly can’t work with anyone who thinks it’s ok to self vote so I figured that’s the best place for it.In post 50, profii wrote:You're not another one of these people that wont scum hunt on day 1 are you ?
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In post 53, Wimpy wrote:
No but I’m not really into rvs voting, rvs was basically over, and I honestly can’t work with anyone who thinks it’s ok to self vote so I figured that’s the best place for it.In post 50, profii wrote:You're not another one of these people that wont scum hunt on day 1 are you ?
If RVS is "basically over" that means we are doing serious votesIn post 57, Wimpy wrote:I can’t really have a problem with you refusing to work with me because I’m refusing to work with vork.
You are voting Vortuka for policy - lynch self voters - which means you dont find him scummy, you just can't work with him - this wouldnt usually be a serious vote, more of just an RVS reaction test that doesn't acheive anything in the long run- profii
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I think you are wrong - a policy is a set circumstance that you just vote for - e.g. self voting. Self voting isn't exclusively scummy but this is the reason I am pushing youIn post 69, Wimpy wrote:
Why are you trying to put words into my mouth?In post 66, profii wrote:If RVS is "basically over" that means we are doing serious votes
You are voting Vortuka for policy - lynch self voters - which means you dont find him scummy, you just can't work with him - this wouldnt usually be a serious vote, more of just an RVS reaction test that doesn't acheive anything in the long run
Why are you trying to change how I’m playing?
I do think self votes are scummy hence the policy. You don’t establish a policy lynch policy over things you don’t think are scummy.
If you don’t like my vote, vote me. If you think I should vote somebody else, convince me.
It's fine that we disagree about it, but because you legit believe you are voting for something you think is scummy, that's towny.
Someone said move down the roster, Vortuka... this is why you push... you find things out...- profii
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I was going to call you out so bad if you didnt say that
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question does not make sense - we are looking at a solitary person making a statement on their own and I've encountered it to be a scum thing before... there isn't anyone else for it to be VsIn post 130, alimdia wrote:
Umm how many times has someone said the exact same line but turned out to be town vs scum?In post 49, profii wrote:
This is also why I am voting - I caught someone saying the exact same line.In post 25, Saudade wrote: Wanna guess what other person I know said the exact same line he did and turned out to be scum?
@Saudade, answer this q as well please.- profii
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If wake flips town the Zote could be scum hereIn post 138, Zote the Mighty wrote:
This is a weird question. Zote the Mighty does not approve. Why defend Wake's behavior at the beginning?In post 130, alimdia wrote:
Umm how many times has someone said the exact same line but turned out to be town vs scum?In post 49, profii wrote:
This is also why I am voting - I caught someone saying the exact same line.In post 25, Saudade wrote: Wanna guess what other person I know said the exact same line he did and turned out to be scum?
@Saudade, answer this q as well please.- profii
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me and Saudade quite assertively said Wake was scum.In post 144, Wimpy wrote:
why? I don't see how you make that connectionIn post 142, profii wrote:If wake flips town the Zote could be scum here
Let's assume a realistic probability that me and Saudade haven't caught scum within like the first page or 2... however, given the assertive scum calling, scum!zote could feasibly be dissapointed that the momentum on the wagon has been killed off there.- profii
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I dont like RVS either. On page 1 the statement was worth querying and he said he wouldnt self hammer. That was also page 1, so still the best thing to push at the time. If he had said he would self hammer, I would have been like "hes just making a point, he accepts that even in his death town, including him can still win, thats cool"
But by saying he wouldnt do it, it makes me think "scum can't really make that sacrafice, obviously they are the minority and suiciding yourself on day 1 would be nuts" this guy is scared to die and those reasons make sense so lets have a look at him...
Other stuff has popped up, obviously, but at the time that was the most scummy thing to push... otherwise you get 11 people placing 11 random votes and we all sit in a circle and say 'well that was nice' - someone has to start a push. I just know how to do it.
I feel like you are trying to undermine the whole thing by saying 'loses credibility' and expressing a frustration but if you dont go whole hog at your scum reads how do you get people to trip over themselves and give the game away for us to catch them?- profii
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WowIn post 166, Wimpy wrote:For those playing at home, Here are the two games where town player says the same thing as wake,
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 3#p9922853
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 2#p9854602
I really need to hear a GOOD explanation from profli as to why he is so quick to scum read wake for it when he has seen town do it twice and thus making it null as alidade and myself have pointed out.- profii
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Why are you providing links to the games I participated in when someone town did it and not presenting a balanced view of the games where scum did it
I feel like you are getting frustrated rather than bening purposely shady but that’s a bit nawty
I think the game I’m thinking of might have even been with me and Saudade in ha ha- profii
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If self hammering is against the rules do you have a problem with scum self hammering at L-1 to limit discussion and hinder town - that’s pro-scum and if they didn’t do it would break the play to your win con rule
That underlying point is people are saying “rules are rules” but the rules conflict each other so let’s not get bogged down in that- profii
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I just want to make 3 points to Wimpy about this Wake read
- Saudade said “someone” singular
- I also said “someone” singular - I had a specific example in mind
- I also later hypothesised that it’s feasible I’m wrong - ie acknowledging it would be wrong to consider this a 100% reliable scum tell
So I don’t understand where Wimpy is going at all - hence I’m not bothering to really respond to his questions too directly - it’ll probably take over the thread and be detrimental- profii
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You are telling me how to play?In post 230, Wimpy wrote:
because i don't need to. You already claimed you found scum doing it and it was that reason why you think wake is scum.In post 223, profii wrote:Why are you providing links to the games I participated in when someone town did it and not presenting a balanced view of the games where scum did it
The fact that you have seen town do it also and still hold the believe that wake is scum because of it shows dishonesty. This action should be null to you since you have seen both scum and town do it.
Ok well you just do this for me and I’ll come back later- profii
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You presented some logic and decided how I should deal with itIn post 247, Wimpy wrote:
idk how you take that as me telling you how to play. That is me telling you why i scum read you.In post 244, profii wrote:You are telling me how to play?- profii
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NoIn post 267, Elements wrote:Did we just bully wimpy into leaving?
If he can’t cope with people not saying he is right or differing in opinion then I don’t know what he is doing on this site to be honest- profii
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I think I answered?In post 274, alimdia wrote:After reading all the pages.. profii u havent answered my q yet
@wimpy thanks for digging up the games lmao. He had been avoiding answering the question prob cos he got caught in a scum tell.
so... Regarding saudade's experience
1) person experience
2) sample size of 1
I realise that me saying the argument between X and Y being most likely TvM probably is also sample size of 1 from my personal experience, so ill retract that argument too
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Profii
I haven't played with 'papa mason before', I was just wondering cos nobody had username papa mason.
I have a 100% win ratio as town. You should therefore sheep me all game.In post 181, Saudade wrote:Something tells me I have a higher winratio than you as both town and scum so please dont lecture me
See how that doesn't make sense?
Btw I think scum self hammering doesn't break the rules- profii
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I don’t think I answered you directly but I’ll clarifyIn post 301, alimdia wrote:
I can't find it? I just had a look through your ISO again. The closest I could see is this:In post 293, profii wrote: I think I answered?
which I already addressed, and asked a follow up question.In post 132, profii wrote: question does not make sense - we are looking at a solitary person making a statement on their own and I've encountered it to be a scum thing before... there isn't anyone else for it to be Vs
Anyway, using apersonalexperience thing as a reason to vote someone is ... a pretty bad reasoning.
Now if you were to say that Wake88 is not contributing much at all, other than saying Wimpy is a townread, which multiple people, including me have also mentioned, then thats a different story altogether.
I have definitely seen someone make a similar statement and caught them as scum day 1
I have also been made aware that apparently I have seen people make similar statements and then they flipped town (what wimpy said)
I’ve also mentioned that it was like a page 1/2 scum read and I’ve hypothesised that there are scenarios where I’m wrong
As it happens, I agree with the point that wake hasn’t really got started in this game - it could be scum believing they are under major scrutiny so not sure how to enter the game but it’s just a thought rather than me saying “we must lynch right now”
I think I’ve got too swept up in this whole thing and I’m probably missing out paying attention to half the player list tbh- profii
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YepIn post 318, Zote the Mighty wrote:
I would have to agree with this.In post 298, Saudade wrote:If he was scum he'd be doing a good job because he inspired a 7 page festival of nonsense, you are not likely to rep out if you are doing a good job
UNVOTE:
I was thinking as scum you don’t get that passionate about some of those points was my reason for TR’ing him but that is quite concise and unrefutable so if we can all agree wimpy town that would help- profii
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Why would you say you are going to do thatIn post 328, Saladman27 wrote:Actually,Intent to L-1 Wakefor some reason it’s always the too scum to be scum that flips red.
And not do it
To be clear, noting I am on the wagon - I am not encouraging you to join, just curious as to why you’ve hesitated there- profii
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I wanna hear a bit more from UltimatePlank
He says he best town read is alimdia
And from the Wimpy-saga he says scum probably piled on meaning one of {elements/vork/Saudade}
My questions are - why is alimdia so town and where does elements come into it as I don’t understand
Also, whilst I agree wimpy is likely town I am not sure that sheeping his slot is the wisest plan - being town inherently means uninformed ergo doesn’t actually know who the scum is.- profii
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Of course I didIn post 359, UltimatePlank wrote:
Did you see his post below the initial one though?In post 357, profii wrote:I’m just quoting what he said
How do you feel about people that make sweeping statements then change their mind when it comes down to it- profii
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So if there is 1 scum and 0 objective towniesIn post 361, Wake1 wrote:Plus, the wagon itself was contrived. Nothing I had said warranted that trash-wagon, and I don't see any objective Townie actually running with it.
What does that make the other 4 players on your wagon?
I feel like you’ve just insulted 4 people by saying that- profii
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Ha ha I’m light of that I’m considering Un-voting youIn post 364, Wake1 wrote:I have the reputation I have down in my sig.- profii
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i didn’t say either wayIn post 376, alimdia wrote:In post 356, profii wrote:I wanna hear a bit more from UltimatePlank
He says he best town read is alimdia
And from the Wimpy-saga he says scum probably piled on meaning one of {elements/vork/Saudade}
My questions are - why is alimdia so town and where does elements come into it as I don’t understand
Also, whilst I agree wimpy is likely town I am not sure that sheeping his slot is the wisest plan - being town inherently means uninformed ergo doesn’t actually know who the scum is.
Do you not town read me good sir?
I’m interested in where UltimatePlank gets his read from - because he says he does have a town read but I can’t work out why (from what he says)- profii
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Just over a week ?In post 380, Saudade wrote:Whats the timer until day end
UNVOTE:
I think this will do for now- profii
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Because it’s easy for scum to sheep wrong town and be like yep I just agreed with that dude he sounded cleverIn post 391, UltimatePlank wrote:Why would i bother regurgitating reasons?
I don’t like that post, at all.
VOTE: ultimateplank- profii
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if we are getting into pre flip stuff that’s the logicIn post 395, alimdia wrote:
so now I'm townIn post 392, profii wrote:
Because it’s easy for scum to sheep wrong town and be like yep I just agreed with that dude he sounded cleverIn post 391, UltimatePlank wrote:Why would i bother regurgitating reasons?
I don’t like that post, at all.
VOTE: ultimateplank- profii
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No this is the pointIn post 409, UltimatePlank wrote:My reason for pressuring Looker is that he has basically no content. I'd forgotten all about that slot until I saw others vote him, and then I realised that was actually a good place for a wagon right now.
You are just voting because you saw other people do it - you aren’t coming in with a new perspective like “see how he said X which is scummy so vote”
You’re just sheeping a lurking vote which is why I vote you
To be fair I assume that’s all the looker votes are about but I’m going to take another look- profii
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Anyone is free to comment on anythingIn post 418, alimdia wrote:
Are you talking about the 3 people still on wake or other people?In post 405, profii wrote:Lack of protest of the wake wagon falling down is noted. Any thoughts from anyone?- profii
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I’m not voting looker mostly based on this postIn post 295, Looker wrote:
I don't see this. Can you point me to a post where he was progressing the game as opposed to spamming the thread? I'm trying to determine whether my distrust of him is based on alignment or personality.In post 286, Zote the Mighty wrote:Right now I think Saudade is town. I don't much care for his minimalistic posting style, but he seems to want to progress the game along and get us away from the pointless discussion that has clogged the past few pages.
He seems to be genuinely trying to work Saudade out
If you are trying to work something out, you don’t know, ergo you are town
It’s obviously an early read on a quiet slot so it can change but for now...- profii
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I sense we are miscommunicating here somehow.In post 426, UltimatePlank wrote:
Where is the part where he's genuinely trying to figure out Saudade's alignment exactly?In post 422, profii wrote:
I’m not voting looker mostly based on this postIn post 295, Looker wrote:
I don't see this. Can you point me to a post where he was progressing the game as opposed to spamming the thread? I'm trying to determine whether my distrust of him is based on alignment or personality.In post 286, Zote the Mighty wrote:Right now I think Saudade is town. I don't much care for his minimalistic posting style, but he seems to want to progress the game along and get us away from the pointless discussion that has clogged the past few pages.
He seems to be genuinely trying to work Saudade out
If you are trying to work something out, you don’t know, ergo you are town
It’s obviously an early read on a quiet slot so it can change but for now...
I see Zote having a townread and Looker saying that he isn't sure about that. But where does Looker actually go out of his way to show that he is trying to sort Saudade?
To me this reads as Zote thinks Saudade is town. the first sentence in #286 is really clear
Then the last sentence in 295 "I'm trying to determine whether my distrust of him is based on alignment or personality." says to me that Looker isn't so sure and is trying to work it out - which is why I made the point about his trying to sort someone, indicates he is town.
I guess the reason I sympathise with Looker is because the first time I played with Saudade he was town but I got really paranoid over his style of play, or his personality you could say...
I haven't actually sorted Saudade in my mind yet for that very reason so that's where I'm up to.- profii
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See this is why I can't make a decision on Saudade. I felt Wake was the best place to start the wagon, but I made post 405 specifically to bait someone into going 'come on guys, we should push this lynch through' and instead, the wagon just died even moreIn post 435, Looker wrote:
I feel it was opportunistic scum, honestly. When people don't have to give reasoning, anybody can jump on a wagon.In post 405, profii wrote:Lack of protest of the wake wagon falling down is noted. Any thoughts from anyone?
So I agree that it's possible opportunistic scumcouldbe involved and I'll be looking at what paths Vortuka and Saudade take from here on in.- profii
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can you clarify that please ?In post 438, alimdia wrote:suddenly straight up slips that wake is town- profii
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I thought so, I just wanted you to say it rather than me assume it.In post 442, alimdia wrote:
He said opportunistic scum jumped on wake's wagon, which implies he knows that wake is town.In post 440, profii wrote:
can you clarify that please ?In post 438, alimdia wrote:suddenly straight up slips that wake is town
The other possible implication is that he town read wake hard, which I showed that there was no evidence in my 438 that that is the case.
I see what you mean, I'd like to know where Lookers hard town read comes from.- profii
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Firstly I think you a town. You seem pretty convinced that Looker is doing something worth digging into which is cool. I wouldnt expect scum to drive a day 1 wagon from scratch like this...In post 444, alimdia wrote:I need people to support this wagon. The evidence is damning...
@Plank, come back on this
@Saudade, @profii, @wake88 What do you think of the stuff I just laid out? Join the wagon if in agreement please
@Eibirn, @Elements hopefully you guys read my stuff in detail
Also... if someone, for example me, lays out a good case about why someone is scum, provides evidence, example and so on...
Why does anyone that reads it have to provide additional original reasoning in order to join the wagon? The whole point is I'm trying to
1) find scum
2) convince other people to agree with me and vote with me.
If my case convinces people, I don't see why they have to find some other extra reasoning to vote with me.
It's only when its like ... the wake wagon where there's not really a case that its suspicious.
However, I am curious about Looker, but I dont feel a need to vote right now... I have specific questions, if he answers them satisfactorily, then cool, I probably wont vote. If not, I'll either ask more questions or just vote. I dont feel the need to just jump in though - what if we evaluate someone and we decide they are town, but they dont want to work together because they feel like you gave them a hard time? then how do we catch scum - we need to play the long game here... it's a team sport.
To your point about extra reasoning - I would say on day 1, it's not like we have a PR saying I saw slot X do action Y to slot Z which is clear scum - if that was the case I'd say fine, quick-lynch. This is day 1 - we know nothing - all the players are humans and have their own perspective, I'd expect it to be simple enough for 10 different people to evaluate a situation and say 'I agree with part A but not so much part B' and have 10 different opinions - if people all come in and just go 'yep vote' at this early stage, something is wrong - so there isn't a rush right now.- profii
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I ask about Vortuka because this is on my mind a little bitIn post 298, Saudade wrote:If he was scum he'd be doing a good job because he inspired a 7 page festival of nonsense, you are not likely to rep out if you are doing a good job
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Why looker ?In post 474, Elbirn wrote:
Welcome to Mafia, where the rules are made up and the points don't matter!In post 470, alimdia wrote:
...... so how do we yield scum then?In post 457, Saudade wrote:Let me remind you all that just because your points may be correct and make sense, that does not mean that the case you've built will yield scum at the end of it
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Looker- profii
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In post 350, Montosh wrote:
It's pretty strange that those 2 wagons comprise of no overlap.In post 477, Montosh wrote:- profii
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profii Jack of All Trades
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so you can declare yourself as a quick-hammer'er but when you are on the wagon we have to wait until you are satisfied?In post 482, Wake1 wrote:Looker, I would ask you to please claim.
No quick-lynching, the rest of you. I want this information.
I am not going to quick hammer but this double standard is outrageous- profii
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profii Jack of All Trades
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Looker - if I said Salad looks like he is trying to discourage people from voting you by belittling their reasoning here what would you say ?In post 389, Saladman27 wrote:Why do you keep on sheeping others without any good reason? Why not even regurgitate the other wagoneers’ reasoning?
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profii Jack of All Trades
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I'm really curious about Salad who was a bit weird about voting Wake, waiting until he was actually online - then not only doesn't vote the looker wagon, but criticised someone for going on that wagon where I highlighted that sheeping point.In post 489, alimdia wrote:
What's the reasoning do you think?In post 478, profii wrote:In post 350, Montosh wrote:
It's pretty strange that those 2 wagons comprise of no overlap.In post 477, Montosh wrote:
You mean 2? And did you mean plank?In post 479, Wake1 wrote:Interesting how those three on mine jumped onto Salad instead.
I'd like to hear more about that- profii
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profii Jack of All Trades
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profii Jack of All Trades
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- Joined: December 19, 2017
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profii Jack of All Trades
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profii Jack of All Trades
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profii Jack of All Trades
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- Jack of All Trades
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Do you really think that if looker flips green that makes alimdia scummy ?In post 510, Zote the Mighty wrote:I am starting to see the case against Looker, but I'm not 100% confident that they'll flip scum. I still find it unsettling how confident alimdia is in his read and if Looker is lynched and does flip green, that's one suspect for tomorrow.
Also don't care for Elements's or Plank's votes on Looker either.
I mean the guys signature says 100% town win rate and it looks like he completed 1 game - he is just super cock sure- profii
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profii Jack of All Trades
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Ive on idea ?In post 517, alimdia wrote:Are you thinking what I'm thinking profii? About Zote. - profii
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