Micro 900: Autumnal Mafia (Game Complete)

[Alduskkel]

Hi guys I'm in this game what's going on

[Alduskkel]

I'm on page 7. I hope this isn't just 90% Menalque, Datisi, and Wimpy. Reading Wimpy as scum for being super defensive while also being like "I don't care if you think I'm scum."

[Alduskkel]

oh god oh fuck why

I shouldn't have to say this but filling up 20+ pages with posts from just 3 players isn't pro-town. I have a feeling I'm about to read a lot of arguments going around in circles.

[Alduskkel]

I am not really concerned how people interpret my actions.

(Has posted 183 times in a 572 post topic.)

[Alduskkel]

I don’t care if you scum read me but you do need to have a good reason.

You should care if I scumread you because if you're town and get lynched that hurts the rest of your team too.

[Alduskkel]

I feel like there's a lot of cognitive dissonance in Wimpy's posting. There's "I don't care if you scumread me but I'm also going to spam the thread with posts explaining why you shouldn't be scumreading me" and also "I think Datisi is scummy but I didn't call her scum it was just a page 2 vote that I said was serious."

Also yes it would be relevant to know where you've played before Wimpy.

[Alduskkel]

@Menalque: How sure (0-100%) are you that Wimpy is scum? If Wimpy had been powerlynched when you asked for it, and he flipped town, wouldn't we be in a bad spot on Day 2, and where would you go from there? And even if he flipped scum, wouldn't you have almost no idea who his partner was?

@Wimpy: How sure (0-100%) are you that Menalque is scum? How about Datisi? If one or both flipped town where would you go from there?

Part of what I'm trying to highlight in these questions to both of you is that I think a lot of this conflict is personality-based rather than alignment based, and it's not creating a game environment that produces much alignment-indicative information.

@Wicked @Luca, you guys should un-vote your RVS's when you get back

This is townposting

[Alduskkel]

I mean I think alimdia is more likely to be town based on him saying that, because scum-alimdia wouldn't vote for emps and then ask other people on the same wagon to move their votes.

[Alduskkel]

Maybe, but I think it was worth pointing out. Do you have a read on emps?

[Alduskkel]

@Luca: emps I read as neutralish town. Makes sense that he doesn't have much in the way of solid reads yet. I do think it's a little weird that he's currently voting someone he townreads though.

I will never stop defending myself from false accusations.

You are literally clogging the thread. Also, please respond to my questions in 601.

[Alduskkel]

So your read on the game is that both scum decided to draw attention to themselves by filling up the game in a 20+ page back and forth with you? If you're town then you're tunneling hard.

[Alduskkel]

Please read pg 14 and give me you opinion on it

I feel like the whole thing is mostly based on communication failures that each side perceives as the other one lying/being hypocritical and the reality is that it's not very alignment indicative.

[Alduskkel]

TL;DR: Lots of arguing Wimpy vs Menalque and Datisi. It got personal, and Wimpy just requested replacement. You can probably skim the endless 3 way argument and focus on when people other than just those 3 post as well

[Alduskkel]

@Wicked: What's your opinion of what I said here?

I feel like there's a lot of cognitive dissonance in Wimpy's posting. There's "I don't care if you scumread me but I'm also going to spam the thread with posts explaining why you shouldn't be scumreading me" and also "I think Datisi is scummy but I didn't call her scum it was just a page 2 vote that I said was serious."

-On the other hand, some of his defeatist/1v1 posts feel kinda townish to me: see 358 and 640. I also kinda believe him when he says he doesn't care how people read him.

Why do you believe Wimpy when he said he doesn't care how he's read?

Menalque:

neutral, slight scum lean
-I don't like his overly-confident push on Wimpy.
-I don't like what he's done to the game-state (helping spam the thread, f-bombing the guy that he's confidently scum-reading who has now replaced out)
-I don't like his warning to me here. Not only does it feel like a misrep waiting to happen but I'm still not sure why he makes that post as town.
-Regardless of his alignment, I think he crossed the line in his treatment of Wimpy. It kinda sucks that Wimpy replaced out and is leaving the site. Regardless of how irritable he may have been to certain people, he shouldn't have been treated that way and this feels like the wrong outcome.

Menalque, I know that you strongly prefer town. Why did you want to coast this game?


UNVOTE: VOTE: Menalque

Dislike this "case" and vote. This just sounds like you don't like Menalque's playstyle in this game so far, so your vote is basically policy. I also agree with what Ico said here.


I also dislike how Luca dodged alimdia's accusations in 887. It's pretty suspicious (admittedly pending flips on Wicked and Wimpy) that Luca has been adding support to the most popular wagons while avoiding the spotlight as the leader of them.

[Alduskkel]

also @Aldu
when you get the chance a basic readslist with an explanation or two would be gucci
k thx

Town:
alimdia -- for reasons I've said before, and I mostly agree with Ico's points on him (and anything I don't agree with I just think is null).
Ico -- Ico's been making a lot of sense. The progression of the read on Menalque is natural, and I like the poking at Wicked.
Menalque -- the earlier tunneling and the later "oh crap was I tunneling" seem town to me, I've had similar experiences. I'm still looking forward to more content on non-Wimpy stuff, though.
Datisi -- kinda like a towner version of Menalque. Posted a lot but a good variety, not just on Wimpy.
emps -- lot of posting, not a lot of content. When he came in with post 599 and saying "i honestly have no fucking clue what my reads are tbh" that seemed town to me. I think scum would most likely push Wimpy or Menalque, rather than risk appearing wishy-washy. Leaning town, but still close to null.

Scum:
Wimpy -- pretty much what I've said before. Although the fact that he straight up replaced out makes me think his behavior wasn't as alignment indicative as I thought.
Luca -- too much on the sidelines, too much pushing the popular wagons. Probably not scum with Wimpy or Wicked.
Wicked -- see my previous post.

[Alduskkel]

Also
genuinely
what the fuck was Luca supposed to answer to those "accusations" to not dodge them

I mean, he could say something about alimdia saying Luca's "undermining" people's townreads of alimdia. Maybe explain that it wasn't "undermining"?

It’s a bit of a misrep to say I’ve been adding support to the most popular wagons while avoiding the spotlight when I’ve only made one serious vote this game.

You were absolutely pressuring Wimpy and adding fuel to the fire, even if you weren't voting for him.

[Alduskkel]

And i was actually trying to get Wimpy to not tunnel so hard so we could look at other slots, so it really feels like you’re misrepping me there.

Are you trying to say you were just trying to help Wimpy, when you very clearly were also scumreading him?

I also notice Aldu is townreading emps partly for not pushing Wimpy and partly scumreading me for pushing Wimpy, yet I’m pretty sure emps ‘pushed’ Wimpy at least as much as I did, if not more.

It's about the

way

you've pushed people. Emps pushed Wimpy in a way that showed Emps was comfortable being in the spotlight.

I also want to point out that I Townread Datisi and Icon before Ali did (Ali didn’t give any reads until I called him out on it) so his claim that I’m scared of him also becoming townread due to PoE is not only irrational but also doesn’t really make sense, as I’ve helped to form that PoE. I’m actually wondering if he’s projecting his own fears onto me.

lol how can ali be projecting fear of being PoE'd when ali was on track to being in the townbloc

Do you always do this "no u" kind of thing? Cuz you're doing it to both me and ali.

Also that "I agree with whatever Ico's said except the things I don't which I think is null". I almost want to give this Townpoints purely on the fact that scum would be more self-aware as to not write something like that. But I've learned my lesson in doing that.

What I meant is: I agree with some of the points that Ico made in favor of townreading ali. The points I do not agree with I just consider to be null, i.e., they don't indicate ali being town or scum.

omg my join date is so close to Plum's I feel special

look at our join dates

[Alduskkel]

you were in newbie 680 and I was in 681

we could have been besties since 2008 in an alternate timeline

[Alduskkel]

lmao SaveTheDragons PLAYED in my newbie

Also Mr. Flay was the mod

[Alduskkel]

I don't understand why you think what I said is scummy.

[Alduskkel]

Alimdia has a towny mindset and is the first to join the townbloc.

Posts like 97, 104, 119 (defusing the situation) are very good takes.

I enjoy the 616 obv callout of scum!Dat and scum!Menal powerwolfing the crap out of this early game, but that's a highly unlikely scenario. Knowing both of these players, I think they would take it a lot slower. That doesn't take away I think Menal could be scum here (just not together with Dat), for pushing something in REALLLY terrible faith

Datisi if it helps these are the specific Ico points I agree with.

[Alduskkel]

I also dislike how Luca dodged alimdia's accusations in 887.

Amen brother

i'm with Datisi on this one. How are you supporting a push on Luca when you put it in your town(ish) pile very recently?

it would help me more if you told me how you see this as NAI?

Because alimdia wasn't townreading Luca, it only kinda looked that way because of the way ali's reads post was formatted.

Menalque, can you read what I've said about Luca recently, and tell me what you think?

[Alduskkel]

@Datisi: tbh I wasn't paying that close attention and was mostly just happy that ali was backing me up on my Luca suspicion

[Alduskkel]

i'm on page 41 and the thread keeps growing

[Alduskkel]

would you guys prefer a few medium sized posts or one monster sized post

[Alduskkel]

Alright, this covers pages 41-43.

Aldu is scumreading me for pushing the same players he’s pushing, which doesn’t make sense.

If he were Town he would relate to my pushes, not scumread me for them, as they mirror his own views. It makes it feel disingenuous, and he’s probably worried that if Wicked or your slot flips green then it will reflect badly on him, so he’s preemptively associating me as the one ‘pushing from the sideline’, to hide the fact that’s he’s doing this more than anyone.

Again it's the WAY you pushed those players that was scummy.

@Datisi: tbh I wasn't paying that close attention and was mostly just happy that ali was backing me up on my Luca suspicion

Well of course Alim was going to back you up as you were literally agreeing with what he had said.

This hard Alim TR feels really forced/unnatural.

This is a misrepresentation. Alim backed me up when I said Luca dodged the accusation. That's different from me just saying I agreed with Alim.

And rushed

dude how can it be rushed I've been saying I townread alim since page 25

Spoiler: big ol quote

And i was actually trying to get Wimpy to not tunnel so hard so we could look at other slots, so it really feels like you’re misrepping me there.

Are you trying to say you were just trying to help Wimpy, when you very clearly were also scumreading him?

I also notice Aldu is townreading emps partly for not pushing Wimpy and partly scumreading me for pushing Wimpy, yet I’m pretty sure emps ‘pushed’ Wimpy at least as much as I did, if not more.

It's about the

way

you've pushed people. Emps pushed Wimpy in a way that showed Emps was comfortable being in the spotlight.

I also want to point out that I Townread Datisi and Icon before Ali did (Ali didn’t give any reads until I called him out on it) so his claim that I’m scared of him also becoming townread due to PoE is not only irrational but also doesn’t really make sense, as I’ve helped to form that PoE. I’m actually wondering if he’s projecting his own fears onto me.

lol how can ali be projecting fear of being PoE'd when ali was on track to being in the townbloc

Do you always do this "no u" kind of thing? Cuz you're doing it to both me and ali.

1) I was trying to get Wimpy to not tunnel while having a scum-lean on him, yes.

2) you said you townread emps for not pushing Wimpy, and now I’ve pointed out that’s false you’ve changed it to townreading emps for pushing Wimpy while being comfortable in the spotlight - this contradicts your original reason. You’re making it up as you go along.

3) I could say the same - I’m currently townread more by the ‘townbloc’ players than Alim, so his accusation could also apply to himself and, as I said, it feels like he’s projecting that fear onto me, because it’s otherwise irrational to suggest I’m scared of him being townread for probing about something I disagree with.

1. Yes but the way you phrase it in post 915 makes it sound like you were trying to revise history as though you weren't scumreading him.
2. I can actually see how you'd misunderstand me here. When emps came in, he didn't immediately push Wimpy (or anyone) -- I consider this town behavior. When he later pushed Wimpy, he did so with poor timing (from a scum perspective) because Wimpy had requested replacement, which is a near guarantee that the lynch wagon will slow down on that slot. Also, he pushed the slot in a rather noticeable manner.
3. Not at the time the accusation was made. Seems like only recently have players been saying they heavily townread you (and scumread alim), so in that past context alim was the more townread player.

---

@Wicked: What's your opinion of what I said here?

I feel like there's a lot of cognitive dissonance in Wimpy's posting. There's "I don't care if you scumread me but I'm also going to spam the thread with posts explaining why you shouldn't be scumreading me" and also "I think Datisi is scummy but I didn't call her scum it was just a page 2 vote that I said was serious."

Ehh. I'm not sure. He spends an absurd amount of time/energy in defending himself, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's doing it because he cares how Mena/Datisi are reading him. Oftentimes when I'm defending myself (like right now) it's because I see someone spreading ideas about me that are untrue or misleading and I want to prevent other people from buying into those ideas.

And I don't see the cognitive dissonance in the second part of your post.

Why do you believe Wimpy when he said he doesn't care how he's read?

-As I said in my last comment to you, I can see him over-defending himself against his scum reads.
-He seemed to be a little bit prideful - case in point him thinking that experience on epicmafia is the same as experience on mafiascum.
-Him repeatedly misspelling Datisi's name and getting her gender wrong are some of the smaller details that make me feel like he wasn't motivated by trying to get on Datisi/Mena's good side.

Tbh, thinking about it some more, I'm actually not sure if any of this makes him town necessarily but those are some of the ideas that were going through my head when I made that comment.

Hmm, I can kinda see where you're coming from here. Also the cognitive dissonance I was referring to is Wimpy making a "serious" vote on Datisi and thinking she's scum, but also Wimpy saying he didn't call her scum. I don't want to get into the semantics debate that Wimpy/Menal/Dat had earlier all over again, but I still think Wimpy's thinking here is at the very least flawed, and in my opinion outright scummy.

Also I’m holding out on a pipe dream of scum believing that I’d fake my TR on dats being this strong because I believed she was scum and then flip on her in lylo if we were there together, allowing us to kill whatever scum was foolish enough to believe that and to bring us both to 3p lylo

bruh you must have been real fucking tired when you made this post

[Alduskkel]

I'm getting newbtown vibes from Ali's recent posts tbh, the way he's judging most things by how it relates to/affects him.

@Datisi: tbh I wasn't paying that close attention and was mostly just happy that ali was backing me up on my Luca suspicion

Join tha wagon too

Does it not seem odd to you that he's suspicious of me yet hasn't voted me? It feels like he's waiting for someone else to make the push first.

Well honestly I've been feeling a bit indecisive over voting you, Wicked, or Wimpy/pops. You getting townvibes from Ali gives me a bit of pause, I would have expected you to maintain your scumread stance if you were scum.

Town:
alimdia -- for reasons I've said before, and I mostly agree with Ico's points on him (and anything I don't agree with I just think is null).
Ico -- Ico's been making a lot of sense. The progression of the read on Menalque is natural, and I like the poking at Wicked.
Menalque -- the earlier tunneling and the later "oh crap was I tunneling" seem town to me, I've had similar experiences. I'm still looking forward to more content on non-Wimpy stuff, though.
Datisi -- kinda like a towner version of Menalque. Posted a lot but a good variety, not just on Wimpy.
emps -- lot of posting, not a lot of content. When he came in with post 599 and saying "i honestly have no fucking clue what my reads are tbh" that seemed town to me. I think scum would most likely push Wimpy or Menalque, rather than risk appearing wishy-washy. Leaning town, but still close to null.

Scum:
Wimpy -- pretty much what I've said before. Although the fact that he straight up replaced out makes me think his behavior wasn't as alignment indicative as I thought.
Luca -- too much on the sidelines, too much pushing the popular wagons. Probably not scum with Wimpy or Wicked.
Wicked -- see my previous post.

wicked read is ??? but i should check previous post
luca weird is read, dont think hes been on the sidelines tbh and he hasnt just been pushing the popular wagons
why is mena above datisi if datisi is literally townier mena to u
alimidia being that high is also weird to me, ill check back ur reasoning in a bit

I should clarify that my reads list was not in order of strength here. If it were, it'd be something like
Town
alimdia = Ico = Datisi (Town)
emps = Menalque (Town lean)
Wicked = Wimpy = Luca (Scummy)
Scum

This is probably town!Emps that is just not into this game. His reads are very feely right now, especially wrt Ali. He isn't pushing a scum!agenda and reminds me of myself when I'm town just stuck in a game.

This is the feeling I get from emps too.

@Aldu does pop's posts change your reads on the wimpy slot?

I dunno, I'm worried that scum pops probably has the skill to turn around a scummy slot into looking like a townie slot.

I'm gonna reread Wicked and pops rn.

[Alduskkel]

I mean I reread pops iso and while pops is less scummy than Wimpy I don't think there's enough me to flip my read. Pops has a lot of friendly banter posts which I feel is making it more likely for people to townread her even though it's NAI. I know my brain was initially thinking "hmm, pops seems town" and I was like "why" and my brain was like "lol pops was friendly to me so she must be town."

I also caught something that bothers me:

So like
Datisi
Luca Blight

Iconeum
Alduskkel
Menalque

alimdia
emps

wickedjestr

spatial representation readslists are antitown i dont have my energy for my 2014 soapbox about discussing your reads but keeping them off the maximal extent to where they help scum nk unlynchable but the above the null line crap tried really hard to trigger 2014 pops to show up

Is the first quote not literally a spatial representation reads list?

As for Wicked, I feel that his IRL busyness and it being 2 years since he played town are reasonable explanations for the case against him. So I'm drifting a bit back towards null on this slot.

And while I was isoing I noticed: Wicked, in your last post you said you're scumleaning me but haven't indicated any reasons why. So, why?

[Alduskkel]

I've seen way worse players than emps. I'm not policy lynching him.

Also, be honest: are you buddying me?

[Alduskkel]

Progression? He started posting more, and he gave those IRL explanations. My progression was null to scummy (based on what I said and what Ico said) back to somewhere between null and scummy. And I don't see how it's convenient, if anything I think it'd be more convenient for me to keep pushing Wicked. Which reminds me, another thing that pushes my read away from Wicked being scum is that, as you noted, basically everyone except emps scumread Wicked, and I think emps is town, so if Wicked is scum then his teammate declared suspicion along with everyone else.

What do you mean by lynch pool? Do you mean my scumreads? In that case, I'm still looking hardest and Wicked, pops, and Luca. But unfortunately I'm second guessing myself on all 3.

[Alduskkel]

Wimpy has definitely been the scummiest player so far. I don’t necessarily agree with all the reasoning against him, but there is something about the way he’s defending himself that doesn’t sit right with me. I’ll try and put my finger on it tomorrow.

I'm scumreading Wimpy based on his method of defence, but I'm not fine with ending the day yet as if he does flip town then we gain nothing from it.

These are some of your earliest posts, where you indicate suspicion of him but don't vote him, explain why you're suspicious (just that it has something to do with his defense), or even commit to a vote on him. This is an easy way to add fuel/pressure to a wagon without being a primary aggressor like Datisi/Menalque. There are plenty of other posts (620, 636, 645) where you further pressure Wimpy which no doubt contributed to him feeling the entire town was against him, which (assuming Wimpy is town) is a pro-scum maneuver.

This feels like a wicked wagon.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Wicked

Still not sure about his menalque critique but I generally like Icon’s opening, particularly his point against Wicked.

Here you just casually get on the Wicked wagon without adding any analysis, and right when two other players (Ico and Datisi, who are mostly townread by others) also got on. I also have a special distaste for the 3rd vote in a 9 player situation because it puts the voter comfortably in the middle of the wagon -- not a leader like the first 1 or 2 votes, and not the person who makes it really serious like the last 2 (L-1 and hammer).

And i was actually trying to get Wimpy to not tunnel so hard so we could look at other slots, so it really feels like you’re misrepping me there.

I also notice Aldu is townreading emps partly for not pushing Wimpy and partly scumreading me for pushing Wimpy, yet I’m pretty sure emps ‘pushed’ Wimpy at least as much as I did, if not more.

These posts are both misrepresentations. Although I can't prove that they're intentional, in the first one you could be trying to revise history to give the impression you were "only" trying to help Wimpy when you were also very much pressuring him, and the second one misrepresents my case to make it look a lot weaker than it is. Also, in 1040 you say my townread on ali is rushed but it really hasn't been -- I said I was starting to townread ali back on page 25.

And your back-and-forths with me about being on the sidelines and with ali about being PoE'd just seem like bad faith attempts to flip the accusation back onto the accuser.

Ok, now that you've answered, i can ask

Also, be honest: are you buddying me?

Aldu, has this question and the answer had influence on your read? If so, what was it?

Alim's response is a mild town tell. Scum-Alim might have responded to the question by reflexively denying that any buddying was occurring.

[Alduskkel]

I'm not willing to claim yet. What made you decide to vote me? In 1244/1245 it sounds like you weren't yet planning on voting me, then suddenly you did.

[Alduskkel]

how about we talk about how the case on me sux

[Alduskkel]

nah

[Alduskkel]

what would me claiming even accomplish

[Alduskkel]

How would it avoid fake claims or pressure scum into mistakes? Also Day 1 is pretty early for setup building.

[Alduskkel]

I don't actually feel that pressured tho

[Alduskkel]

Like are you even scumreading me Menalque because if so you've never said as much.

[Alduskkel]

Lemme put it this way. It would be anti-town for Menalque to hammer me because he has barely done anything other than that fight with Wimpy and I don't think he's really scumreading me. That means he knows there's a good chance I'm town (or knows 100% if he's scum) and that if he hammers me he has a good chance of getting lynched tomorrow, which is bad for his faction no matter what.

P-edit: so are you just PoEing me? On day 1? Weak

[Alduskkel]

In other words, Menalque won't hammer me, therefore I have no reason to claim.

[Alduskkel]

I am helping move the game forward. I'm trying to get you guys to see what I'm saying about Luca. Also I think it's useful to see how other players will act in the current situation.

[Alduskkel]

I don't get the point of threatening to hammer someone who clearly doesn't believe you will carry out the threat. And why don't you at least interact with Ico, Menalque?

[Alduskkel]

I'm not holding the game hostage?? Like in no way am I preventing anyone from doing anything.

You guys really need to reconsider reading Luca as town.

[Alduskkel]

why is luca scum? for pushing you?

this is uncharacteristically lazy of you ico

go back and read post 1248

[Alduskkel]

Also I already said how I knew Menalque wasn't going to hammer me.

[Alduskkel]

This game does not enable Mafia factional daytalk by default.

Menalque you're gonna have to explain Ico-scum to me. Like his behavior the last couple pages is weird but I'm not seeing it as AI?

[Alduskkel]

Also I already said how I knew Menalque wasn't going to hammer me.

it's because you were talking about this whole theatric in scum pt is my guess

This is a dumbass performance if we're scum. "lmao what if you posted intent to hammer me... and then didn't??? lmaooooo"

Also if we were daytalking scum I think I would have voted Wimpy and tried for a quick lynch.

[Alduskkel]

I mean the stunt would be funny as fuck but it wouldn't be playing to a scum wincon.

Why is it so impossible to believe that I can be confident as town?

P-edit: oh my god Menalque is a teacher

[Alduskkel]

imagine if Wimpy is actually one of his students

[Alduskkel]

My not claiming is pro-town. If I claim VT then I could get lynched anyway or scum know not to NK me. If I claim PR I have a target on my head the rest of the game.

[Alduskkel]

your information is that I'm town

you can sort me as "town"

[Alduskkel]

you're just mad cuz you thought you were gonna get to see me lynched and then Menalque blueballed you

[Alduskkel]

dude we can continue the game whether I claim or not

also it's 5 am where I am so I should probably sleep

[Alduskkel]

It okay

Can we agree that I wasn't stalling/holding the game hostage/preventing the game from continuing?

[Alduskkel]

[Alduskkel]

alimdia can you explain why you find emps scummy but not Menalque when they have similar posting styles in this game?

[Alduskkel]

VOTE: Luca Blight

Is no one else bothered by the fact that in 1351 and 1352 he just popped in to set up a pivot back onto alimdia and give a wishy-washy vague opinion on me?

Like, your main scumread just got ran up to L-1, was threatened with a hammer, didn't claim, and then the hammer didn't happen, and Luca has barely anything to say about that? I mean I know he said he'd post more "tomorrow" but he should have had more of an instant reaction. Plus he kept posting in the thread anyway.

And then why does he come to Ico's defense instead of letting Ico defend himself?

Don’t really believe icon’s reaction to my intents if he was genuinely SRing aldu

that's because i was not really genuinly scumreading aldu probably

i said as much

it was a sheep vote because i liked Luca's case there

what

then why did you vote me and want me to claim so badly???

[Alduskkel]

Alim is starting to ping me again with the way he just floats through the game whenever the spotlight isn’t on him.

I generally don’t like Aldu’s reaction, but there are one or two things I’ve seen that have given me pause for thought. I’ll try and put them into words Tomorrow when I’m on the computer.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Wicked

I think these are fine @aldu

oh wow i'm instantly convinced

[Alduskkel]

So I guess indirectly I was one of the town's most powerful roles but at the time I died I was like "yes I drew the NK away from Datisi and won't get mislynched."

Of course in retrospect I wouldn't have been mislynched because of Luca's role (that would have been interesting to see because of Luca scumreading me) but oh well.

Can I ask what the point of Mafia knowing about the Backup Tracker being? I mean it's not going to affect who they kill, just who they have perform the kill.

Also it's really funny that Wicked targeted both Mafia members but because of the way the role works he still ended up being conftown.

Luca, I guess your playstyle just seems naturally kind of scummy to me. If we play together in the future I'll try to correct for that.

And Plum, thanks for modding!

[Alduskkel]

ok but I was SRing Luca and TRing emps so it's not like my reads were On Point

if you sub me in for you in the 5p lylo it might end with me voting Luca instead of Ico getting lynched

[Alduskkel]

but then again I have no idea how I would have reacted to Luca claiming knowledge I'm town/flipping his read on me Day 2 so maybe I would have come around to TRing him.

[Alduskkel]

Really didn't expect to be the NK, but kinda glad. TBH I'm kinda proud of getting killed on N1 as a pretty weak PR (I'd be more proud if I were VT lol) after getting run up to L-1. I didn't want to claim because Backup Tracker is not a claim that gets you out of a lynch, and if I lived it's still setup information for the scum. Though I considered claiming "Backup" without the "Tracker" part.

lol sorry

oof lol

aldu's last words literally were voting luca and asking "why is he protecting icon"
lmao if aldu solved the game day 1
and got shot because of that
and we all thought it was because scum had a PR read
actually why not both?

this would have been an insane egoboost if true

Maybe scum will be merciful and kills me tonight.

The longer this Day goes on the more I think the literally best scenario for Town is if I get killed tonight.

Please kill me tonight.

Please kill me tonight.

Hopefully I'm dead long before that.

Off to bed. Hope I wake up to the link for the Dead Thread.

What does a person have to do to get NK-ed around here?

Kill me

My wounds cry for the grave
My soul cries for deliverance
Will I be denied?

I don't wanna fight Icon reeeeeeeeeeee why didn't you kill me

why did you kill alimdia
why am i alive

like
no
why am i not dead
why tf
am i here

i just want to know if i die
please
the sweet release of death
i hate actually solving lylos

actual footage of Datisi

I think the weird refusal to claim at intent grants Aldu Townpoints. What worries me though, he gave me major PR vibes. And if he dies tonight instead of me and flips PR, then fuck.

FUCK

F


Also happy birthday pops!

[Alduskkel]

Hmm... honestly I think Ico and emps were a pretty good scumteam on days 1 and 2 but there were enough mistakes to tip it back in the town’s favor like:
1. Misreading alimdia as a PR, when he said something that imo wasn’t PR indicative (even VTs want to avoid outing town PRs after all). Side note, I don’t think emps needed to be so scared of alimdia. Not only was emps aware that he was more or less being scumread for the wrong reasons (which makes it easier to defend) but also no one really believed alimdia’s reasoning so it wasn’t a true threat.
2. Not killing Datisi or Wicked on Night 2 as a result of thinking alimdia was a PR. Datisi was basically never going to get lynched and Ico receiving a clear on Wicked was a signal that Wicked would be conftown later.
3. Neither one fakeclaimed Tracker, but I think knowing the lack of scum power was enough info to realize that there was no Tracker at all, and it could have won the lylo, like if Ico claimed to have tracked Luca or alimdia to the nightkill.
4. Ico was just too all over the place with his positions on late D3 and emps didn't show enough interest in scumhunting D3/D4.

The game was really close and I think if just a couple things had gone differently then it could have been a mafia victory.

[Alduskkel]

the Mafia team had information that I would have expected to lead to a Tracker fakeclaim in massclaim at 2v3 lylo

This is one thing I've been wondering about -- if scum claimed Tracker, is it reasonable to expect the town to be able to figure out that the uncounterclaimed Tracker (in a setup with a revealed Backup Tracker) could still be scum?

[Alduskkel]

Yeah but the Informed isn't confirmable (so Luca's claim might be viewed with more skepticism than a scum Tracker claim) and none of the scum roles had flipped. Isn't it possible for FN+Info+Tracker+Backup Tracker to be possible if the scum has strong PRs? Ninja, Roleblocker, etc....

[Alduskkel]

EBWOP: "to be possible" -> "to be balanced"

[Alduskkel]

What do you think would have happened if Iconeum claimed Tracker? The claiming order was Wicked-emps-Ico-Luca-Datisi IIRC.

[Alduskkel]

Or emps, whichever slot you think would have a better chance of selling a Tracker claim (I think it'd be Ico which is why that's what I suggested)