Micro 900: Autumnal Mafia (Game Complete)

[Luca Blight]

$5 for a burger seems reasonable to me.

VOTE: emps

[Luca Blight]

Wimpy, what is your read on Menalque atm?

[Luca Blight]

oh god the misreps

also @Luca what do you make of this game rn?

pedit: THANK YOU EMPS

Still getting my head around it a bit.

Wimpy has definitely been the scummiest player so far. I don’t necessarily agree with all the reasoning against him, but there is something about the way he’s defending himself that doesn’t sit right with me. I’ll try and put my finger on it tomorrow.

That said, I can relate to his situation of joining MS after having played a load of games on another site. I remember getting wound up similarly during my first game on here as things are done very differently.

[Luca Blight]

I've read as much as I can of the thread, but it has become increasingly painful to read and I've skimmed a fair bit of it. I'm scumreading Wimpy based on his method of defence, but I'm not fine with ending the day yet as if he does flip town then we gain nothing from it.

I do think Menalque and Datisi are town, particularly the latter. Apart from that I haven't yet got a read on anyone else.

Can someone do me a favour and just summarize in one post the main points against Wimpy?

@Wimpy

, I'm still going to be open to the idea of you being town, but the more you defend yourself the worse you look. I take it you think the scumteam is literally Datisi + Menalque? If you could summarize your points in one neat and tidy post then that would be grand as well.

[Luca Blight]

Townposting? I don't see what difference it makes whether I unvote or not atm.

[Luca Blight]

That seems a little weak to be honest, I could easily see scum saying that because it appears a townie/pro-town thing to say, but in reality is pretty meaningless.

[Luca Blight]

@Aldu

: From what I've skimmed he seems fine tonally, but nothing concrete.

And you?

[Luca Blight]

Wimpy, thoughts on emps?

[Luca Blight]

I agree with Ali that this is really boring now. Don't tunnel - try to sort the rest of the players.

Do you think Menalque and Datisi are a scumteam or what?

[Luca Blight]

The whole '

I've done nothing to warrant a scumread on me

' line is the very essence of why I'm currently scumreading you.

You don't necessarily need concrete reasons to scumread or vote someone - that is a myth. The whole game for scum is to not do scummy things, therefore it's usually what they're not doing that you need to pick up on.

You're seeming like scum who feel they've been caught unfairly/by poor reasoning.

[Luca Blight]

I'm voting for this guy just because of this....

VOTE: emps

Why are you not voting the player who lied and has clogged the game up pushing that lie?

The thread is becoming so clogged full of spam I'm losing track of what the exact arguments are.

What was the lie that Menalque has been pushing?

[Luca Blight]

The whole '

I've done nothing to warrant a scumread on me

' line is the very essence of why I'm currently scumreading you.

You don't necessarily need concrete reasons to scumread or vote someone - that is a myth. The whole game for scum is to not do scummy things, therefore it's usually what they're not doing that you need to pick up on.

You're seeming like scum who feel they've been caught unfairly/by poor reasoning.

So you have an illogical reason to scum read me because I have literally not done anything to warrant a scum read.

I disagree.

Can you point out where Menalque lied, please?

[Luca Blight]

I find it interesting how Wimpy is spending a lot of time talking about how Menalque lied but seems reluctant to go into details about what the lie actually was. If you're genuinely trying to convince people of your case, then you ought to be doing more of the latter and less of the former. It feels like you're just creating noise for the sake of it.

[Luca Blight]

Ok, I don't really agree with the argument of either side here - they are both a little on the pedantic side, but what I think is more important it the result of these arguments.

Menalque has been relentlessly pushing his scumread in a way which he might not have had the cause to do so early on as scum, and has done so in a way which reads as genuinely frustrated and believing in his read.

Wimpy on the other hand reads like caught scum who are desperately trying to wriggle free, and then get so far entrenched that they feel they have to commit to their counter-vote. I don't believe Wimpy's confidence in his scumread/s as much as I believe Menalque's.

[Luca Blight]

I'm still open to giving Wimpy another chance if he can bring himself to stop tunneling and start sorting the rest of the player list.

Right now he doesn't seem capable of this, unfortunately.

[Luca Blight]

Page 14 definitely relates to that post. That post I made is basically the entire push from menal. It’s a lie but nobody , like actually nobody cares he’s lied.

It's not really a lie, though. A slight misrep, maybe, but nothing major and nothing I couldn't see coming from either alignment.

The AI thing is more the conviction with which he has made his push, which reads more as town atm. I have seen scum push aggressively like this early doors so I'm not cementing him as town, but it's enough for an early town-lean.

[Luca Blight]

This game is melting my brain.

I read on p14 that Wimpy said you 'don't need evidence to say someone is scum', which I would agree with, but then why are you now saying that there is no reason to warrant a scumread on you?

That's just hypocrisy. It's ok for you to SR Datisi without firm evidence, but completely unreasonable for others to do the same to you?

[Luca Blight]

Datisi, are you townreading emps?

[Luca Blight]

Townleaning, yes. Why do you ask?

Was just wondering why you were bothered with Ali's vote.

[Luca Blight]

This feels like a wicked wagon.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Wicked

Still not sure about his menalque critique but I generally like Icon’s opening, particularly his point against Wicked.

Datisi and Icon are in my early Town pile. Menalque felt Town but I have seen scum tunnel in such a manner so I’d put him as a ‘cautious Town-lean’ for now.

Everyone I haven’t mentioned still requires sorting.

[Luca Blight]

I agree more with Datisi than Icon about Ali. I don’t see any good reason to be townreading that slot atm.

[Luca Blight]

Wicked now has all these problems with Menalque’s earlier approach, so why didn’t he make any mention of his grievances at the time? He’s only basically repeating what Icon said regarding Menalque, but the difference is that Icon had no chance to intervene while Wicked did.

Other than that his post ‘looks’ nice.

[Luca Blight]

I believe he also said he didn’t see anything else that needed commenting on at the time.

He has all these problems with Menalque’s approach, so your think he would have said something at least.

[Luca Blight]

That’s actually a good point against emps @Ali. Perpetually catching up is a great way to fly under the radar as scum while looking busy/productive.

[Luca Blight]

I don’t really like Wicked’s subtle shading of Datisi, feels like he’s nitpicking at things to create doubts over the slot while still aligning with the popular opinion.

[Luca Blight]

I still think the Wimpy slot has a decent chance of flipping scum. I think if he were Town he’d be more likely to take the lynch with some degree of satisfaction at proving people wrong.

[Luca Blight]

Datisi

Town Read

Icon
...
Menalque
Ali
Aldu

Null

emps
Wicked/Wimpy

Scum-lean

That's kind of where I'm at right now.

[Luca Blight]

I'm still undecided about Ali: he's made a few good points here and there, although I get the feeling he is playing the role of 'mediator' which is rubbing me up the wrong way a bit.

Aldu has shown me nothing AI whatsoever, but they're both around the null area.

[Luca Blight]

Ali, you're staying very neutral throughout all of this. Can I get some reads from you?

[Luca Blight]

Ali started out siding with Wimpy over Menalque and seemingly scumreading Menalque early on, but seemed to drop this without explanation. Can you explain your read progression there, Ali?

Wimpy - this is very close to null tbh cos he focused on tunneling on Mena, and a lesser extent Datisi, and seemed like he wasn't even trying after a certain point.

I don't get why you currently have Wimpy as null alongside this reasoning. Are these things not AI to you at all?

[Luca Blight]

Icon - parks vote on Mena for a while but steps out of the shitshow soon after and one of the first to start hunting elsewhere
Datisi - excluding the war with Wimpy, questions are on point, looks like genuinely scum hunting. I'm ignoring the 'out of scum zone' comments as thats NAI
Mena - Re-read Mena a bit, To be fair, Mena admitting that it was 65% is probably a point in their favor, but I still don't like the way they tunneled each other, basically taking control of the thread.

Luca - everytime someone town reads me, he undermines it (604, 793). Ppl TR'in me: (683, 690, 692). I feel like he is afraid of me becoming a somewhat universal town read , along with some other somewhat universal town reads like Datisi, Icon and to a lesser extent: Mena, and thus being eventually outed in POE.

Wimpy - this is very close to null tbh cos he focused on tunneling on Mena, and a lesser extent Datisi, and seemed like he wasn't even trying after a certain point.
Wicked - Icon's 867 brings up a good point. I'm willing to jump on that wagon if nobody thinks Emps deserves a wagon here.
Emps - lots of fluff post to look like they're contributing, over multiple days.
Emps - enough said
Emps - enough said
Scum

Null: Adlu - hasn't posted much, other than a slightly town read on me

I'm a little confused why I'm so high up your list when everything you said about me was negative.

[Luca Blight]

pagetop

Also
genuinely
what the fuck was Luca supposed to answer to those "accusations" to not dodge them

"No I'm not doing that"

Exactly this.

[Luca Blight]

Ali started out siding with Wimpy over Menalque and seemingly scumreading Menalque early on, but seemed to drop this without explanation. Can you explain your read progression there, Ali?

Wimpy - this is very close to null tbh cos he focused on tunneling on Mena, and a lesser extent Datisi, and seemed like he wasn't even trying after a certain point.

I don't get why you currently have Wimpy as null alongside this reasoning. Are these things not AI to you at all?

i'm really liking Luca's thoughts this game

if

wimpy is scum this could be the partner defending

Initially yes I was defending him - on page 7.

To be honest when catching up I read the 20 pages of Mena vs Wimpy but I already forgot everything I read. And After Wimpy got bullied into replacing out, I really just have no motivation to re-read those pages to read that slot.
Even when ISO'ing Mena, I fast forwarded through the repetitive parts.
I mostly focused on what other people's inputs during that time like Emps, and people's inputs after that time like Luca and Wicked.

This still doesn’t explain how you went from scumreading Menalque early on to townreading him now. Why are you townreading him?

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

@Wicked: What's your opinion of what I said here?

I feel like there's a lot of cognitive dissonance in Wimpy's posting. There's "I don't care if you scumread me but I'm also going to spam the thread with posts explaining why you shouldn't be scumreading me" and also "I think Datisi is scummy but I didn't call her scum it was just a page 2 vote that I said was serious."

-On the other hand, some of his defeatist/1v1 posts feel kinda townish to me: see 358 and 640. I also kinda believe him when he says he doesn't care how people read him.

Why do you believe Wimpy when he said he doesn't care how he's read?

Menalque:

neutral, slight scum lean
-I don't like his overly-confident push on Wimpy.
-I don't like what he's done to the game-state (helping spam the thread, f-bombing the guy that he's confidently scum-reading who has now replaced out)
-I don't like his warning to me here. Not only does it feel like a misrep waiting to happen but I'm still not sure why he makes that post as town.
-Regardless of his alignment, I think he crossed the line in his treatment of Wimpy. It kinda sucks that Wimpy replaced out and is leaving the site. Regardless of how irritable he may have been to certain people, he shouldn't have been treated that way and this feels like the wrong outcome.

Menalque, I know that you strongly prefer town. Why did you want to coast this game?


UNVOTE: VOTE: Menalque

Dislike this "case" and vote. This just sounds like you don't like Menalque's playstyle in this game so far, so your vote is basically policy. I also agree with what Ico said here.


I also dislike how Luca dodged alimdia's accusations in 887. It's pretty suspicious (admittedly pending flips on Wicked and Wimpy) that Luca has been adding support to the most popular wagons while avoiding the spotlight as the leader of them.

It’s a bit of a misrep to say I’ve been adding support to the most popular wagons while avoiding the spotlight when I’ve only made one serious vote this game.

[Luca Blight]

So what if I was pushing Winpy? I’ve also been pushing Ali, who isn’t a main wagon.

It’s also ironic how the guy most on the sidelines is calling me out for being on the sidelines.

[Luca Blight]

And i was actually trying to get Wimpy to not tunnel so hard so we could look at other slots, so it really feels like you’re misrepping me there.

[Luca Blight]

I also notice Aldu is townreading emps partly for not pushing Wimpy and partly scumreading me for pushing Wimpy, yet I’m pretty sure emps ‘pushed’ Wimpy at least as much as I did, if not more.

[Luca Blight]

You said you disliked the tunneling but the 65% thing was in his favour. Is that literally why you’re townreading him?

[Luca Blight]

Are you talking to me? If so, you were null-town at the time, but you’re not anymore.

[Luca Blight]

You said you disliked the tunneling but the 65% thing was in his favour. Is that literally why you’re townreading him?

It's why I dont want to vote him anymore.

So do you have any other reason to townread him, or is that it?

[Luca Blight]

I still don’t get why I would even be null when he had nothing but negative things to say about me. Why not put me as a scum-lean?

It feels like he wanted to shade without committing to the read.

[Luca Blight]

also @Aldu
when you get the chance a basic readslist with an explanation or two would be gucci
k thx

Town:
alimdia -- for reasons I've said before, and I mostly agree with Ico's points on him (and anything I don't agree with I just think is null).
Ico -- Ico's been making a lot of sense. The progression of the read on Menalque is natural, and I like the poking at Wicked.
Menalque -- the earlier tunneling and the later "oh crap was I tunneling" seem town to me, I've had similar experiences. I'm still looking forward to more content on non-Wimpy stuff, though.
Datisi -- kinda like a towner version of Menalque. Posted a lot but a good variety, not just on Wimpy.
emps -- lot of posting, not a lot of content. When he came in with post 599 and saying "i honestly have no fucking clue what my reads are tbh" that seemed town to me. I think scum would most likely push Wimpy or Menalque, rather than risk appearing wishy-washy. Leaning town, but still close to null.

Scum:
Wimpy -- pretty much what I've said before. Although the fact that he straight up replaced out makes me think his behavior wasn't as alignment indicative as I thought.
Luca -- too much on the sidelines, too much pushing the popular wagons. Probably not scum with Wimpy or Wicked.
Wicked -- see my previous post.

The more I look at this post the more the hypocrisy burns a hole in it.

He says I’m scummy for pushing Wimpy and Wicked, but look who’s in his scumpool. How can he suspect me for having similar reads to him? That is not a mindset that makes sense. I also feel like he’s buddying Icon, and his emps townread doesn’t make sense given emps actually pushed Wimpy as much as I did. It also feels like he’s opportunistically positioning to jump on Wicked while shading me as the one ‘pushing main wagons from the sidelines’.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Aldu

[Luca Blight]

@Ali: the way you presented your readslist made it look like you were townreading him, why not mention that he wasn’t a Townread? It now looks like you’re making it up as you go along.

[Luca Blight]

Would Wimpy reads wise have been between Luca and Wicked?

I honestly have 0 ideas about Wimpy at the moment, my head hurts thinking about going back to read the interactions. The man quit the site for crying out loud

I still don’t get why I would even be null when he had nothing but negative things to say about me. Why not put me as a scum-lean?

It feels like he wanted to shade without committing to the read.

wtf who said you were null.
Have you guys not read the part where I said

1) i didnt c/p wimpy down to the actual null spot along with aldu
2) hencefore you are not null, you're in the leaning scum pile
I'm committing to the read right now. I think you're scum. I'm just not voting you at the moment because the Wicked wagon looks more promising.
You're the one that shades me whenever people say they think I'm town. You seem to be scared for me to be a town-read, that you turn every 'pro-town' thing that people say I do into 'both scum and town can do this'.

I don’t townread you, so when I see others hard-townreading you for something I don’t think is really AI why would I not talk about it? You’ve done the same to me this game at least once from what I remember (when Datisi said she agreed with most thing I’ve said and you said it was me agreeing with her).

[Luca Blight]

I also want to point out that I Townread Datisi and Icon before Ali did (Ali didn’t give any reads until I called him out on it) so his claim that I’m scared of him also becoming townread due to PoE is not only irrational but also doesn’t really make sense, as I’ve helped to form that PoE. I’m actually wondering if he’s projecting his own fears onto me.

[Luca Blight]

Any reason you’re not pushing your main scumread, Ali? I’d almost forgotten your emps SR until i re-read your reads list.

[Luca Blight]

=
The more I look at this post the more the hypocrisy burns a hole in it.

Hypocrisy Is Not A Scumtell

Out of context I’d agree, but Aldu is scumreading me for pushing the same players he’s pushing, which doesn’t make sense.

If he were Town he would relate to my pushes, not scumread me for them, as they mirror his own views. It makes it feel disingenuous, and he’s probably worried that if Wicked or your slot flips green then it will reflect badly on him, so he’s preemptively associating me as the one ‘pushing from the sideline’, to hide the fact that’s he’s doing this more than anyone.

[Luca Blight]

@Datisi: tbh I wasn't paying that close attention and was mostly just happy that ali was backing me up on my Luca suspicion

Well of course Alim was going to back you up as you were literally agreeing with what he had said.

This hard Alim TR feels really forced/unnatural.

[Luca Blight]

And rushed

[Luca Blight]

And i was actually trying to get Wimpy to not tunnel so hard so we could look at other slots, so it really feels like you’re misrepping me there.

Are you trying to say you were just trying to help Wimpy, when you very clearly were also scumreading him?

I also notice Aldu is townreading emps partly for not pushing Wimpy and partly scumreading me for pushing Wimpy, yet I’m pretty sure emps ‘pushed’ Wimpy at least as much as I did, if not more.

It's about the

way

you've pushed people. Emps pushed Wimpy in a way that showed Emps was comfortable being in the spotlight.

I also want to point out that I Townread Datisi and Icon before Ali did (Ali didn’t give any reads until I called him out on it) so his claim that I’m scared of him also becoming townread due to PoE is not only irrational but also doesn’t really make sense, as I’ve helped to form that PoE. I’m actually wondering if he’s projecting his own fears onto me.

lol how can ali be projecting fear of being PoE'd when ali was on track to being in the townbloc

Do you always do this "no u" kind of thing? Cuz you're doing it to both me and ali.

1) I was trying to get Wimpy to not tunnel while having a scum-lean on him, yes.

2) you said you townread emps for not pushing Wimpy, and now I’ve pointed out that’s false you’ve changed it to townreading emps for pushing Wimpy while being comfortable in the spotlight - this contradicts your original reason. You’re making it up as you go along.

3) I could say the same - I’m currently townread more by the ‘townbloc’ players than Alim, so his accusation could also apply to himself and, as I said, it feels like he’s projecting that fear onto me, because it’s otherwise irrational to suggest I’m scared of him being townread for probing about something I disagree with.

[Luca Blight]

I’ll be back in about 2 hours to catch up on the rest.

[Luca Blight]

Lmao anyone that TR's me feels forced and unnatural. So are you saying there is 4 scum of (me, Icon, Aldu and Wicked)?

No, I'm not saying that at all.

I Townread Icon for a start, and I'm not sure what his current read of you is. I haven't yet looked over Wicked's reason for townreading you, but Aldu's does feel rushed for the reasons given.

As for you, I'm still not sure exactly about you - you need to understand that me questioning other players' read on you is as much about me figuring out their alignment as yours. The game doesn't revolve around you.

[Luca Blight]

I'm getting newbtown vibes from Ali's recent posts tbh, the way he's judging most things by how it relates to/affects him.

@Datisi: tbh I wasn't paying that close attention and was mostly just happy that ali was backing me up on my Luca suspicion

Join tha wagon too

Does it not seem odd to you that he's suspicious of me yet hasn't voted me? It feels like he's waiting for someone else to make the push first.

[Luca Blight]

I now think Pops is probably town looking at her reads list in 1017.

Thinking about it, I can see her point about Wimpy's confbias. It's probably unlikely that scum would continue to dig themselves a hole like he did instead of looking to take a breather/step back, especially when offered the chance. Her take on the game seems to generally reflect my own as well.

[Luca Blight]

oh boy the posts abt "being above the null line is leaning town!!!" are why i always label my stuff lol

I agree with this - it's a misunderstanding that could easily be avoided, and it now looks like he's backpedaling/making it up as he goes along as a result.

I'm leaning slightly Town on Alim atm, though - the way he openly challenged me and then switched straight to you had a genuine feel about it.

[Luca Blight]

Wicked now has all these problems with Menalque’s earlier approach, so why didn’t he make any mention of his grievances at the time? He’s only basically repeating what Icon said regarding Menalque, but the difference is that Icon had no chance to intervene while Wicked did.

I believe he also said he didn’t see anything else that needed commenting on at the time.

He has all these problems with Menalque’s approach, so your think he would have said something at least.

This is not entirely true. See the bottom of my 818 - I briefly mentioned a few things that I would have spoken about regarding Mena if I had had the time.

I'll admit that Menalque wasn't necessarily a scum read at the point in time that I posted two days ago, but what is the scum motive for me to 'suddenly have all these problems with Menalque' ? If I'm scum, then basically you're saying I waited until everyone had posted and then decided I wanted to scumread Menalque after it became clear that that wasn't a popular opinion anyway? Iconeum is the only person that seemed to share that viewpoint.

It was a much more popular/acceptable opinion when you voted Menalque than it was when you popped into the thread to ask Wimpy about his experience.

There can be plenty of motive as scum to suspect/vote Menalque when you did.

I don’t really like Wicked’s subtle shading of Datisi, feels like he’s nitpicking at things to create doubts over the slot while still aligning with the popular opinion.

I just explained this a little bit more in my last post. If I have a slight town read on someone but also have a couple slight reservations, then how am I supposed to handle that? Keep the reservations to myself? Calling people out for 'shading' seems to be one of the new trends in site meta that I'm not a big fan of.

The reservations felt more like nitpicking to me, and there is the obvious scum motive (as Alim keeps talking about) of wanting to create doubt about an obviously townread player. It felt like the only reason that paragraph on Datisi existed was to create a grain of doubt in the back of people's minds about her, and I didn't feel it was warranted based on the things you highlighted.

[Luca Blight]

@emps

, I know you pushed Wimpy. Aldu was townreading you for

not

pushing Wimpy while scumreading me for doing the opposite, so I was pointing out that this doesn't make sense as you literally pushed Wimpy more than I did.

Since then Aldu has changed his tune and said he townreads emps because he pushed Wimpy while being comfortable in the spotlight, which is contradictory to what he said before and shows he's making it up as he goes along.

[Luca Blight]

Lmao anyone that TR's me feels forced and unnatural. So are you saying there is 4 scum of (me, Icon, Aldu and Wicked)?

No, I'm not saying that at all.

I Townread Icon for a start, and I'm not sure what his current read of you is. I haven't yet looked over Wicked's reason for townreading you, but Aldu's does feel rushed for the reasons given.

As for you, I'm still not sure exactly about you - you need to understand that me questioning other players' read on you is as much about me figuring out their alignment as yours. The game doesn't revolve around you.

Well the game revolves 1/9th around me.
So here are the possibilities
1) im town and 3 people are TRing me. Those 3 ppl are either 3T, 2T1S, 1T2S. Either way there is at least 1T townreading me. As of this post I feel like you think I'm scum so if thats the case lets have a look at #2
2) im scum and 3 people are TRing me. There is max 1 teammate so either 2T1S or 3T. Who's alignments are you actually trying to figure out here?

I'm trying to figure out everyone's alignment.

When someone like Aldu who I don't TR, hard TR's someone else who I don't TR for reasons that I don't agree with, I'm going to queston it primarily to figure out the person giving the TR, because inventing reasons to TR people is a thing scum do. Whether or not you could be partners etc is not something I tend to consider pre-flip.

[Luca Blight]

I'm getting newbtown vibes from Ali's recent posts tbh, the way he's judging most things by how it relates to/affects him.

@Datisi: tbh I wasn't paying that close attention and was mostly just happy that ali was backing me up on my Luca suspicion

Join tha wagon too

Does it not seem odd to you that he's suspicious of me yet hasn't voted me? It feels like he's waiting for someone else to make the push first.

not sure if you saw but I did vote for you. Then emps and his reads came in.
Also why are you saying I'm town followed by shading me again (falsely too)

I already explained multiple times my read list. If you're not gonna read I'm not gonna copy and paste

You misread my post, try again.

[Luca Blight]

...I was talking about Aldu not voting me, not you.

[Luca Blight]

Datisi

Town Read

Icon
...
Pops
Menalque
Alim
----Null line----
emps,Wicked
Aldu

Scum-lean

Revised edition of my reads.

[Luca Blight]

Alim, do you understand my post now? And if so, what do you think of it?

[Luca Blight]

@Alim:

If you are Town then remember that it's easier for scum to read you correctly than it is for Town to do so.

I don't think Aldu's level of confidence that you are Town was justified at the time he made his read.

He's hedging by scumreading the popular wagons while scumreading me for holding the same opinion.

He suspects me but is waiting for someone else (Alim, for example) to make the push before committing himself, while keeping himself open to hop on the 'easier' wagons at any time.

He's inventing reasons to Town-lean emps, by first townreading him for

not pushing Wimpy

, and then when pointed out that emps did in fact push Wimpy a lot, he changed it to townreading emps for

pushing Wimpy while feeling comfortable in the spotlight

. That is invented and not a natural progression of thought.

More votes on this wagon, please.

[Luca Blight]

I could see emps/Aldu being the scumteam actually.

[Luca Blight]

@Alim

: If emps doesn't offer up something good soon then I might be willing to switch over.

[Luca Blight]

@Icon I summarized it on the last page.

[Luca Blight]

Whenever Luca says "not a natural progression of _____", I recall him saying that for my reads too

No, I merely questioned you about your Menalque progression. I don't recall actually making a judgement about it.

[Luca Blight]

Datisi, how are you reading Pops atm?

[Luca Blight]

Aldu, please explain why the way I made the Wimpy/Wicked pushes was scummy? Please also take into account the way you have been pushing those same wagons.

[Luca Blight]

*sound of bees flying manically*

I don't know. I think the slot had scummy moments but I still doubt since it might be playstyle. I like pops posting but I can't shake off the suspicion. I can try to go into it later, but they're not in my lynch pool for D1 rn

The reason I ask is because I get the feeling I’m being pocketed and it’s making me a little paranoid. I get you/Icon having a strong TR of me as you’ve seen how I play as Town, but I’m surprised she townreads me to such a degree.

[Luca Blight]

Alim is starting to ping me again with the way he just floats through the game whenever the spotlight isn’t on him.

[Luca Blight]

I generally don’t like Aldu’s reaction, but there are one or two things I’ve seen that have given me pause for thought. I’ll try and put them into words Tomorrow when I’m on the computer.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Wicked

[Luca Blight]

I have a hard TR on Icon.

Menalque I’m much less sure on but still leaning Town. I worry I could be wrong about either him or Pops.

[Luca Blight]

I don’t really see it at contradictory.

Fmpov when I was reading through, as the main pusher of the Aldu wagon, I wasn’t sure myself about hammering at that time, but i was agreeing with Icon that the claim should have happened. I don’t see why Icon wouldn’t want to hear a bit more from you before the day ends in case it is a town flip, to allow more of a foundation for reading you on D2.

I townread Icon partly for meta reasons as he feels very similar to the past two games where I was also able to correctly read him, but I think I’d be townreading him even without the meta. I can go into specifics tomorrow.

[Luca Blight]

Icon made this post before you signaled intent:

@menalque

can you please start talking about ANYONE other then Datisi?

Which shows he was already after more info from you and not just shading you before an impending hammer.

Is it not then reasonable for Icon to be content with his SR being on L-1 while also still demanding more from you before the day’s end?

[Luca Blight]

This is the only thing that pinged me slightly about Icon:

aldu would be a sheep vote from me, i like Luca's case there

It felt like he was putting the responsibility of the flip on my shoulders, but overall I liked how he handled the Aldu situation.

[Luca Blight]

2. I can actually see how you'd misunderstand me here. When emps came in, he didn't immediately push Wimpy (or anyone) -- I consider this town behavior. When he later pushed Wimpy, he did so with poor timing (from a scum perspective) because Wimpy had requested replacement, which is a near guarantee that the lynch wagon will slow down on that slot. Also, he pushed the slot in a rather noticeable manner.

This is not true.

emps voted wimpy in 632. Wimpy didn't request replacement until 668.

[Luca Blight]

1248 made me understand Aldu's SR on me a little better. I could kind of see where he was coming from. I also felt a town ping from his response to Datisi.

[Luca Blight]

I don’t really like Wicked’s subtle shading of Datisi, feels like he’s nitpicking at things to create doubts over the slot while still aligning with the popular opinion.

I just explained this a little bit more in my last post. If I have a slight town read on someone but also have a couple slight reservations, then how am I supposed to handle that? Keep the reservations to myself? Calling people out for 'shading' seems to be one of the new trends in site meta that I'm not a big fan of.

The reservations felt more like nitpicking to me, and there is the obvious scum motive (as Alim keeps talking about) of wanting to create doubt about an obviously townread player. It felt like the only reason that paragraph on Datisi existed was to create a grain of doubt in the back of people's minds about her, and I didn't feel it was warranted based on the things you highlighted.

I repeat my question from before: if I have a slight town read on someone but also have a couple slight reservations, then how am I supposed to handle that? Keep the reservations to myself? I'm not going to be discouraged from voicing my inner thoughts just because you're throwing out this empty 'shading' buzzword.

That's fair I guess, it's just how I interpreted it.

I understand your point as I'm doing the same myself about Pops, for instance. This game is all about separating the genuine from not genuine in these instances, and I read yours to be more nit-picking than sincere.

[Luca Blight]

1304, 1305: I like Icon's Aldu/Menalque theory here, I think it shows a Townie thought-process.

[Luca Blight]

And then why does he come to Ico's defense instead of letting Ico defend himself?

Because I was literally asked about Icon.

[Luca Blight]

I'm actually not getting many scummy vibes from Wicked tbh, but I need a little more output from him before I feel comfortable unvoting.

[Luca Blight]

@Pops

: I feel bad about saying about the pocketing as I'm obviously glad you're able to townread me and seem to get something from my posts, I'm just unused to someone being able to townread me so clearly and easily as you have this game.

The game seems a bit too 'easy' for similar reasons to what Datisi said - I'm quite possibly wrong about one of my TR's and my bet would be either you or Menalque atm. I've liked your content so far though and I hope you are Town.

[Luca Blight]

@Alim: when you were in the spotlight you were more aggressive and pushing your reads, then when you were accepted as more likely town you dropped this and have just been floating through with mainly fluff posts.

Why did you stop pushing emps, for example?

[Luca Blight]

So what? At least I'm tying to solve the game, I don't get the same impression from you.

[Luca Blight]

I think I'm still content with voting Wicked over Aldu atm.

Wicked doesn't seem particularly scummy, but has also done nothing to make me think he is Town. I can see his play coming from a half-decent scum player who just does enough to post some nice-looking content without creating many waves.

Aldu on the other hand has more scummy looking content, but a few town-telly things in there as well.

emps reminds me a bit of the player Emperor FlippyNips, who has a similar kind of play style which is one I naturally tend to scumread. I really need to see some solid content before I can get a real grip of this slot.

[Luca Blight]

That's actually pretty convincing.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Menalque

[Luca Blight]

If you read my 1452 you'll see that the only reason I was SR'ing Wicked was for lack of Townie content, which has now been provided.

[Luca Blight]

Leaning that way.

[Luca Blight]

Not really.

[Luca Blight]

I also covered that in the post above. I need more content from emps, but I'm partly sheeping Datisi/Icon who've played with him before and seem to TR him. The reason I suspected Wicked over emps was because his posts seemed to be more carefully manufactured, but I really like his case against Menalque.

What do you think of it?

[Luca Blight]

Just skimmed through.

Datisi, why are you so sure Menalque is Town? And what did you think of Wicked’s case?

[Luca Blight]

I think Icon made a good point that if we compromised on emps and he flipped Town then we’d learn next to nothing.

Fmpov I’m still far from convinced about Menalque, and I really don’t feel like lynching Wicked after that case - I thought he displayed a real townie thought process.

[Luca Blight]

Most of the focus has been on the intent and subsequent lack of hammer, but this is actually something I could see coming from Menalque as either alignment. I can definitely see a possible townie motive for it.

I think there is a lot of value in the other points Wicked made against Menalque which deserve a bit more attention. Wicked’s meta points felt genuine, and it does seem curious how Menalque hasn’t tried to interact more with Wicked given they had just played as scum together. I also agree with his point about Menalque’s approach to the Wimpy slot. I can understand feeling bad for what he did etc but I would have expected a bit of suspicion to naturally return after a while of a slot he SR so hard.

[Luca Blight]

Just to bring up the case again, I think there’s a lot here that still needs addressing:

I'm done responding to things tonight, I'll follow up with people tomorrow perhaps.

I haven't had enough time to push Menalque.

I

really

think people should consider voting Menalque with me today. I think I have a unique vantage point on his scum-meta right now seeing as I just watched him play for the last month with the knowledge that he was scum. His play here looks very similar.

Two quick points that I would like to make before I sleep:

1. I know that he strongly prefers town but his play here is not at all reminiscent of someone that is genuinely trying to scum-hunt or playing the alignment that they want to be playing.

• In this post from yesterday, he says that Alduskkel and I haven't done anything strongly alignment indicative yet he expresses intent to hammer both of us within the next few hours of writing this post: here and here. Town shouldn't be so easily willing to lynch their POE reads when we still have half the day left.
  
• If you will indulge my narcissism for a moment, he says at the beginning of the game that I'm one of the specific players he intended to get a read on and vote or sheep. And coming into this game, I would have expected him to want to interact with me. However, he has completely ignored me for most of the game. He has made no effort to determine my alignment or respond to my criticisms/questions to him. This feels really off to me, especially in combination with me voting for him and him being willing to hammer me so abruptly.
  
• It feels unnatural how he went from confidently scum reading Wimpy to now slowly backing off of that read now that pops has replaced in. I understand that he got angry at Wimpy and appreciate him admitting he crossed the line. But it feels like a convenient and intentional transition given that pops is either a more difficult mis-lynch or a stronger teammate for him if he's scum.

It feels like he's playing an uninvested scum game.


2. There are a number of specific posts that he's made that feel like they're intended to give the appearance of scum-hunting without actually having genuine intent. Two examples of this that immediately come to mind:

• Here he warns me that he expects more posting from me than in our previous game. It feels like him trying to give off the appearance that he's sorting me even though it would have been better for him to wait and see how active I actually turn out to be rather than instructing me preemptively like this.
  
• He repeatedly asks Ico to explain why he started townreading Mena even though Ico explained it. Ico literally responds by quoting previous posts and that's the end of the conversation. So it doesn't feel like Mena actually cared about this even though he asked multiple times. I feel like this is an attempt to earn townpoints by questioning the thing that scum-him would inherently want (people townreading him).

[Luca Blight]

I don’t think scum always push someone for the purpose of getting them lynched. If Menalque had immediately stopped pushing Icon when the pressure was relieved a bit then it would have looked worse on him, so I’m not sure I really buy that.

I’m also running out of players to compromise on. I’m no longer willing to Lynch Wicked today because his case was really townie. I could possibly compromise on Aldu, that’s probably about it.

[Luca Blight]

Also, Menalque did vote Wicked shortly after that. He did what I’d imagine scum would do in that position - maintain his scumread while slowly easing over onto the more convenient time wagon.

[Luca Blight]

If you’ve got any more reasons for why I should be townreading Menalque then I’m all ears, because right now I’m not seeing it.

[Luca Blight]

It seems crazy how you’d hammer before catching-up.

[Luca Blight]

It’s a team game though, Pops. I wouldn’t have unvoted without good reason.

[Luca Blight]

It’s a team game though, Pops. I wouldn’t have unvoted without good reason.

Luca do you disagree with my proposed lynch order?

I haven’t had time to fully digest what has happened, but my initial reaction is also to lynch Pops Tomorrow.

Wicked’s case still feels townie to me, though.

[Luca Blight]

It’s a team game though, Pops. I wouldn’t have unvoted without good reason.

Luca do you disagree with my proposed lynch order?

I haven’t had time to fully digest what has happened, but my initial reaction is also to lynch Pops Tomorrow.

Wicked’s case still feels townie to me, though.

Also commit to the rest one way or another

The order should be pops —> wicked —> Icon —> you

If not, why not?

Why would I commit to anything right this moment?

I don’t scumread Wicked or Icon, and I know I’m Town, so I don’t agree with that order.

[Luca Blight]

Okay Luca so tell me who’s more likely to flip scum than any of the names in that list once obvscum!pops gets lynched

I townread Icon and Datisi. Wicked is a town-lean that I will re-evaluate if I’m still around tomorrow.

Take your pick from the rest.

[Luca Blight]

Everyone: VOTE: Menalque
I thought being the universal SR and being ignored was frustrating. But holy shit, being the universal TR and

still

being ignored is a special type of hell.

I wasnt ignoring you. I was actively trying to understand why you TR Menalque when Pops hammered out of nowhere.

Datisi and Icon are still probably Town. I'm most likely going to vote for Pops today. I wish Menalque took more time to case Wicked while he was alive as I'm having a hard time reading that slot now; most of his content has been meh, but the case was good and I maintain that despite the flip.

emps needs considering.

@Icon and Datisi

, what are your current feelings about this slot?

I remain ambivalent about Alim. Pops/Alim team could make sense, though.

[Luca Blight]

Well yeah, as it stands I'm fine lynching Pops today but I'm just wondering what exactly about emps makes you sure he's Town. I glanced through his meta and he seems to have played similarly as both alignments.

[Luca Blight]

My feelings are opposite to yours, Wicked.

I feel Wimpy, as Town, would have been more likely to take the lynch as an

'I told you so

' moment. I could see him site-flaking for feeling like he's been unfairly treated and caught for the wrong reasons.

There's no way of knowing if he was really considering posting his role PM or whether it was a bluff.

Pops admitted she hadn't caught up on the thread as she wasn't ready to answer certain questions directed towards her.

[Luca Blight]

@Pops

: I actually agree with your stance regarding lynching claimed VT's, but the way you went about it seemed devious.

I could see you as scum doing this thinking that people might let you get away with such obviously scummy behavior.

[Luca Blight]

@Pops

: I actually agree with your stance regarding lynching claimed VT's, but the way you went about it seemed devious.

I could see you as scum doing this thinking that people might let you get away with such obviously scummy behavior.

Do you think I thought lolhammering Menalque -decreased- the chance I am lynched?

If not why did I lolhammer VT when I could shop around town and run up more claims? You're saying you believe that I believe in the strength of PRs as strongly as I do.

You lynch a potentially strong town player and can use the above justification to explain it away. It's a calculated risk to make as scum, and you'd probably believe in your ability enough to pull it off. If there's a RB in the scum pr's then it might also make the gamble more enticing.

Either way, I was already have doubts over your slot and I'm not sure I can see past your lynch right now.

[Luca Blight]

Pops, Menalque raised a good point during twilight; why did you not hesitate on hammering him when you earlier said you would be able to read him better on D2, so would usually not agree to lynch Menalque D1?

I really do get your point about the PR's and I would have maintained my vote unless Datisi gave me a very good reason to TR him, but the quickhammer seems at odds with this previously stated opinion of yours, especially when you hadn't even caught up at the time.

[Luca Blight]

Btw it's mildly amusing how Datisi's 'intent' joke has had such game-changing effects.

[Luca Blight]

ftr it's hard to want to put effort into casing iconeum over jester when I think that might be the team exactly

You're better off pushing Wicked then as I wouldn't agree to an Icon lynch today.

[Luca Blight]

Wicked’s on the fence about it and emps hasn’t checked in yet.

Apart from that, nobody.

[Luca Blight]

You’re making out like Icon’s certain you’re scum, Pops, but he’s never said that.

I’ve also wanted to hear your thought process in case there’s something that pings me as Town, but it’s not happening atm.

[Luca Blight]

You’re the best lynch today - I think so too, but I’m also not 100% you’re flipping red.

As for the second one, if you see his follow up post, he actually uses the fact there’s little resistance to your wagon to pause for a moment.

[Luca Blight]

Possibly, but your point was that Icon’s certain you’re scum, which isn’t the case based on what’s he’s posted.

[Luca Blight]

Datisi: one person is ambivalent, one play hasn't posted yet and if you're even remotely familiar with that player who is emps you know he won't be more favorable towards pops than ambivalence.

It was actually me who (sort of) said this, not Datisi.

I actually see your point regarding Icon, and if you flip Town then I'll definitely be looking more closely at him Tomorrow if I'm still around, but I definitely don't want that lynch Today.

[Luca Blight]

I get your point about Icon and can feel myself being slowly talked round to suspecting him, but it isn't that strong and I still feel you're more likely to flip scum than he is.

Icon's play resembles what I'd expect from previous experience with him, although he is generally less townie here than in those games. The reason I TR him is due to: Confronting Menalque and defending Wimpy upon entering the thread, pushing Aldu for a claim and then linking Menalque and Aldu as partners following the lack of hammer. These I consider townie thought processes and are consistent from what I'd expect from Town!Icon.

I'm not just going to lynch my stronger TR because he made a few awkward looking posts.

[Luca Blight]

btw it's worth pointing out that the way Iconeum referred to the slot in general seems to leak Iconeum suggested Alduskkel for PR and Alduskkel was shot over emps or Luca

Can you link the posts you're talking about here?

[Luca Blight]

There are reasons why I'd like to leave Icon until Tomorrow. I don't know for sure he's Town, but right now I think he is.

I'm willing to consider Alim if you want to talk about that slot instead.

[Luca Blight]

‘Aimless’ is exactly what I’d expect from newbscum tbh.

The only other player I’d consider lynching today is Wicked.

[Luca Blight]

‘Aimless’ is exactly what I’d expect from newbscum tbh.

The only other player I’d consider lynching today is Wicked.

I don't think Wicked is scum.
I wish he didn't have 5% as many posts as Datisi, more information would be great.

His positioning this game so far doesn't really put him as scum

.

Can you elaborate on this, please?

[Luca Blight]

@Pops:

Some of your recent stuff is making me feel a little better about you. The problem is that I don't have any other strong SR's, and information-wise your lynch makes the most sense today.

I'm considering lynching Alim instead (I agree with you recent points against him), but I consider his alignment to be the toss of a coin atm. It could go either way, and if it's Town then I'm not sure what we gain from it particularly.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Pops

I think this lynch needs to happen today, I can’t see any other way around it.

Not sure if that’s L-1 or not.

[Luca Blight]

Is it time to mass-claim?

[Luca Blight]

IMO:

emps, Wicked, Icon, Luca, Datisi

[Luca Blight]

I’m ok with Wicked going first.

[Luca Blight]

Yep.

I think until the mass-claim is finished we should avoid speculating too much/giving away any info.

[Luca Blight]

emps is up next.

Please claim your role and confirm whether you received a pm confirming Wicked as Town.

[Luca Blight]

In LYLO, it’s possible. If emps confirms then Wicked is confTown.

Until then it’s probably best to keep speculation to a minimum, as I said.

[Luca Blight]

Make sure you’re more careful with your vote today, emps.

Over to you, Icon.

[Luca Blight]

I still think it’s better to finish the mass-claim before going into theories etc

[Luca Blight]

I think I know what you’re thinking.

[Luca Blight]

Don’t worry, emps is confscum at this point.

[Luca Blight]

I'm N1 Informed Townie. I was informed by the Mod N1 of Aldu's role and alignment.

Which means the scumteam is Icon/emps.

[Luca Blight]

I actually thought Icon was going to be Tracker after some of his comments D2.

[Luca Blight]

Wait, so no-one is claiming Tracker?

[Luca Blight]

I'm VT
A bit busy atm but will be back in an hour or so

How does that mean that exactly Luca?

If you had claimed Tracker then the scumteam would have been confirmed emps/Icon to me by PoE.

But now I'm just confused.

[Luca Blight]

There are reasons why I'd like to leave Icon until Tomorrow. I don't know for sure he's Town, but right now I think he is.

I'm willing to consider Alim if you want to talk about that slot instead.

this one

Yeah, the reason I wanted to leave you alive was because I thought you had Tracked Wicked and semi-cleared him based on that.

[Luca Blight]

Yes, I'm pretty sure emps is scum.

The Backup Tracker is basically a named Townie in this setup, then? He would never be able to use his ability, right?

[Luca Blight]

There are reasons why I'd like to leave Icon until Tomorrow.

I don't know for sure he's Town

, but right now I think he is.

I'm willing to consider Alim if you want to talk about that slot instead.

Btw, I said this deliberately in case I was NK and someone assumed I was informed Icon was Town.

[Luca Blight]

jezus this doesn't make sense

if the doc claim is fake then town only has

backup tracker
FN
informed town that backup is real?

wtf

That's not that unbelievable in a 9p.

We both played in that Newbie where the only Town PR's were Masons, and this is stronger for Town than that.

[Luca Blight]

If no-one else is claiming Tracker then that pretty much makes me conftown as well, because there would be no other function for the Backup-Tracker. It would be entirely useless without my role.

[Luca Blight]

i strongly advise not pushing alim today

Icon, why did you post this on D2?

[Luca Blight]

Why did you think he was a PR?

And the only crumb I can remember giving was what I highlighted above; I had no useful info to share, since Aldu was killed N1, so I just made sure no-one thought I received something I hadn't.

[Luca Blight]

I remember that, but I didn't get the feeling he was a PR from it.

So you thought I was Tracker, Alim was a PR, you already knew Wicked's PR and Aldu's flip. How much power did you think Town had in this game?

[Luca Blight]

Icon, glancing through your ISO it feels like you've been protecting emps the whole game. You've never once took any effort to sort that slot/put pressure on him.

And I'm pretty damn sure emps is scum.

[Luca Blight]

Although looking at Datisi's ISO, she's done the same thing...

[Luca Blight]

backup tracker
informed
FN
cop

someone in here is lying because i don't believe there's gonna be 4 town PR in a 9 p game

like, one of the claims is

guaranteed

to be lying

there's confscum in (emps/luca)

Yes, that would be emps.

Claiming doctor and then protecting the most TR player who wasn't the NK both nights is very convenient.

My claim makes sense with the setup. There's also the fact that emps has been protected by at least one guaranteed scum (icon, Datisi) this game, has coasted through doing nothing and disingenuously hammered Pops before she could even claim.

[Luca Blight]

Luca

You iso pretty consistenly puts emps at the bottom of your readslist, yet you never actually push him

and when push came to shove, you agreed with me that lynching emps would be a bad thing at the time

Because I TR you and Datisi and trusted your read.

The difference is you know I'm not emps' partner, so I obviously wasn't protecting him, as one of you two were.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

Wait, so no-one is claiming Tracker?

that makes sense if you are Informed town

it's literally Datisi/emps

don't ask me how

it's exactly PoE

unless Luca is faking his claim

but that claim makes zero sense coming from scum so

that makes sense now

backup tracker
informed
FN
cop

someone in here is lying because i don't believe there's gonna be 4 town PR in a 9 p game

like, one of the claims is

guaranteed

to be lying

there's confscum in (emps/luca)

This is an interesting progression; going from believing my claim to making out it's 50/50 between me and emps.

Do you have any reason at all to believe emps' claim over mine?

[Luca Blight]

through your entire progression you seem to have a scumread on emps, but you never really attempt to further this read,

and you even engage with him at one point in a way that isn't consistent with an honest scumread

Explain this one?

Also, emps was never a clear SR for me - I only ever leaned scum on his purely for lack of content.

[Luca Blight]

1105 and 1109

don't feel like you scumread emps

1105 - I was agreeing about how to format a readslist.

1109 - I was clarifying because emps seemed to misunderstand my post.

Neither of these are indicative of my read on him, and as I said I was only ever SL'ing him due to lack of content.

[Luca Blight]

i don't know how to make sense of this

my gut says doc doesn't fit in this setup

but it's such an out of this world claim that i don't think it can come from scum

How is it more

out of this world

than mine?

[Luca Blight]

like, why does scum!emps claim doc

Because after his hammer/general play this game he was always going to be suspect number 1 unless he could pull a believable claim out of his arse?

[Luca Blight]

because your claim makes sense with there actually being a back up tracker

whateveraalignment!emps comes into massclaim, EXPECTING (like everyone else here), there is a tracker

he claims doc

I was also expecting there to be a Tracker.

It's also possible emps could be RB and targeted Datisi both nights, which might have got him off the hook with the Tracker.

[Luca Blight]

why does scum!emps not just come out of the gate with a guilty tracker result, battle it out with the actual tracker and either win game for scum, or setup a 3p for his partner?

Because it wouldn't be believable?

[Luca Blight]

1. I was also expecting there to be a Tracker; my claim only really makes sense with no Tracker, which I didn't know at the time of claiming.

2. Emps could be a roleblocker and targeted Town!Datisi both nights, which he would use to explain himself if a Tracker targeted him.

[Luca Blight]

that still makes the scumteam

emps/luca

so ehhhhh

Or Icon/emps, which I'm strongly leaning towards atm.

[Luca Blight]

actually, why is datisi alive here

To gives credit to emps' claim?

That seems the most likely scenario atm.

[Luca Blight]

if i were scum you were dead rn

Likewise.

[Luca Blight]

You thought Alim was a PR, you said so yourself. Tracker is more dangerous for you than the Neighbour.

It also looks better on you if the neighbour stays alive as you can use it for towncred, as you're doing now.

[Luca Blight]

that's partially true, but doesn't take away the fact that i would NK into my tracker read over what I thought could be another PR

also let's not kid ourselves, anyone who got the Wicked town PM would be forced to clear Wicked, especially with both targets alive

You're only saying you thought I was Tracker because I wanted to leave you alive D2 - that's not a strong reason to think I'm Tracker over Alim's post. You probably suspected Alim was Tracker and then tried to make out you thought I was the Tracker after he flipped VT.

Basically, you and emps have more motive for killing Alim than anyone.

saying i could even potentially use that as towncredit is bullshit. and you implying i'm 'using it for towncredit' simply isn't true

You're literally using the fact that Wicked is alive as a reason you're Town. That's precisely what you're doing right now.

[Luca Blight]

Scum!Ico would KNOW for SURE there is absolutely NO scenario EVER where wicked gets lynched after N1. Ever. And you think I let that live until LYLO.

Sure...

Yes, sure...because you were aiming for the Tracker.

There is no way a Tracker claim gets lynched either, plus he could easily have a guilty. You probably shit yourself when you thought I had a guilty on emps (that's the vibe I got from your reaction).

[Luca Blight]

We'll see about that.

Anyway, emps is being lynched today. I will be back on a bit later.

[Luca Blight]

I just realised that me and Datisi are almost confirmed not a team - we were the last two to claim and neither of us claimed Tracker or hesitated in claiming.

[Luca Blight]

It’s either emps/Datisi or emps/Icon. They both make sense.

[Luca Blight]

I don’t think Icon/Datisi is likely but I need to consider further before committing to a vote.

Will be back in a few hours.

[Luca Blight]

If emps is Scum roleblocker that could explain the doc claim, as he wouldn’t necessarily be implicated by a Track.

If emps went 1v1 with anyone over a Track claim then he’d lose 100% of the time.

[Luca Blight]

Or just any scum pr for that matter.

[Luca Blight]

My pm said that I know the following to be true: Aldu is a town-back up Tracker (paraphrased).

At work atm so my activity is limited right now

[Luca Blight]

No that was my result, wait a sec

[Luca Blight]

Abilities: you know that the following is true.

Night 1. You’ll receive this info on night one. Passive.

Paraphrased again

[Luca Blight]

Yes I was informed Aldu was the town back up Tracker.

[Luca Blight]

Luca/emps. They're undecided between Icon and alimdia being the Tracker. They bet on alimdia, they miss.

Luca's ready to cc Icon's Tracker claim. Icon claims VT. ohshit.jpg Dat's the Tracker plan B claim some informed shit.

Dats claims VT.

Pedit: i mean from both our povs scum don't both claim VT

I claimed one minute after Icon did - do you really think I’d have done that if I were weighing up two different fake claims?

[Luca Blight]

if it's luca/emps then they decided 1 claims a pr that fits, and the other something powerfull

luca hard busses the claimed doc, gets all the credit, coasts to 3p lylo and wins the game from there

it's not impossible but why doc over tracker

i mean it's such an unlikely claim that i have a hard time believing it comes from scum

But my claim didn’t fit until AFTER we discovered there as no Tracker.

[Luca Blight]

there's a couple good posts in Luca ISO where he is warming up to a scumread on me

combined with how he had emps very low on his readlist during most of the game but when i talked about emps being a bad lynch he agreed there

not enough time right now to fully case this but it's there and i can do it after the weekend

Is there any reason why I should not have doubted you at all?

I refused to push you D2 because I thought you were the Tracker.

[Luca Blight]

Yes I was informed Aldu was the town back up Tracker.

that gives town 2 confirmed towns on D2 with a little luck

wtf

As I said earlier, potentially stronger than masons.

[Luca Blight]

Luca/emps. They're undecided between Icon and alimdia being the Tracker. They bet on alimdia, they miss.

Luca's ready to cc Icon's Tracker claim. Icon claims VT. ohshit.jpg Dat's the Tracker plan B claim some informed shit.

Dats claims VT.

Pedit: i mean from both our povs scum don't both claim VT

Looking at this again, this just seems ridiculous.

1. You and Icon are the ones who have protected emps all game based on nothing, yet I’m most likely to be his partner?

2. Icon is the one who thought Alim was a PR, not me.

3. I’m apparently dumbfounded by Icon’s VT claim that a minute later, having weighed up two fake claims, I claim something that makes perfect sense in the setup only after no-one has claimed Tracker? What are the chances of that happening?

[Luca Blight]

@Datisi - it fits better without Tracker, as it justifies the inclusion of the otherwise useless backup Tracker.

[Luca Blight]

Tbh at this point I’m almost willing to accept you’re Town and that the scum team is Icon/emps. If you’d claimed Tracker as scum you’d have won anyway.

[Luca Blight]

Why were you expecting me to claim Tracker then? If you were Informed, didn't you think that that would've been too many PR's?

I knew emps was lying. I still expected you to be Tracker because for a moment I couldn’t understand why there would be a backup for a role that doesn’t exist.

[Luca Blight]

Also, from my D2 posts of ‘leave Icon alive until tomorrow’, when he was being pushed by Pops, you can see I thought he was Tracker.

And yes it’s possible I could have had it all planned etc with the fake claiming, but that’s a quick response for such a decision. I’m really not so good a scum player that I could make on the spot fake claims like that.

[Luca Blight]

There are reasons why I'd like to leave Icon until Tomorrow.

I don't know for sure he's Town, but right now I think he is.

I'm willing to consider Alim if you want to talk about that slot instead.

I really believed he was the Tracker; that’s why I wouldn’t push him D2.

[Luca Blight]

I don’t know why.

I think he thought me or Alim could be Tracker and Alim was his bet. There’s nothing about that post that suggests I’m a Tracker over any other PR.

[Luca Blight]

And as I said earlier, the ‘I’m not sure Icon is town’ was a slight crumb of my role in case I ate the NK and people thought Icon was confTown.

[Luca Blight]

There is confirmed one scum in me and emps, and confirmed one scum in Icon Datisi.

Me and emps cannot be partners, because for that to happen the game would only contain: friendly neighbour and a useless back-up Tracker. Not only useless but actually detrimental to town, as there would be nothing to back up his claim. This situation is impossible: me and emps are therefore not partners, but one of us is scum, because otherwise Town is too powerful.

It’s also basically confirmed me and Datisi are not partners as well, given we were both last to claim and neither of us hesitated in claiming or claimed Tracker. So the only slight possibility of me being scum here is if I’m scum with Icon, but there still stands the point that Aldu’s power is anti-Town without my PR.

[Luca Blight]

What don’t you agree with?

[Luca Blight]

Working atm, will answer in a bit.

[Luca Blight]

@Wicked: Icon’s switch on your slot implied a PR of some sort, and given my role and Aldu’s, I assumed he must be the Tracker. I don’t know why he would flip his read, but it was the likeliest explanation I could think of at the time, hence I wanted Icon alive until D3.

I think Icon/emps is more likely because I TR Datisi more and Icon continues to soft-defend emps while remaining open to his lynch.

And I’d like to think my role claim isn’t the only reason you’d TR me over emps this game.

[Luca Blight]

@wicked: your point about the mafia informed possibility is actually a decent one, I’m not sure how to refute that right now.

You think me and emps aren’t partners, would you agree that me and Datisi aren’t as well?

[Luca Blight]

You mention that the Aldu kill implicates me, but surely the Alim kill implicates not only emps but Icon as well.

Also, given Icon’s reason for reading Alim as a PR, I’m sure he would have read Aldu as a PR after he refused to claim.

Personally I didn’t think there was anything pr indicative about either of them.

[Luca Blight]

I think if me and Datisi were scum we’d at least have paused to consider claiming Tracker.

I disagree about Alim being particularly TR.

[Luca Blight]

And maybe you can tell that I was genuinely confused for a bit after Datisi’s claim.

[Luca Blight]

I thought you’d picked up on the same as me and thought Icon was Tracker.

[Luca Blight]

Datisi, do you agree that me and emps are not partners?

[Luca Blight]

At some point we have to rule out the ‘very unlikely’ scenarios, and the setup simply makes no sense if both me and emps share alignment.

It’s important we clarify this point today, so on D4 we also have a confTown to make the ultimate decision. If we lynch emps today and there’s still no ‘conftown’ player among the three final players then it plays into scum’s hands.

[Luca Blight]

And I think the ‘fakeclaiming informed’ idea is something that also needs to be dropped - pretty much everything points to it not being the case. Wicked’s theory about me possibly being Mafia night 1 informed is actually something that, objectively speaking, could be possible. I think the game makes a lot more sense with a Town N1 informed, but I guess it wouldn’t have been impossible for me to be Mafia N1 informed with emps as the town doc.

[Luca Blight]

i just don't wanna lynch the dragon boi

I don’t want to lynch either of you either as I’ve hard TR you guys all game, but we’re at the business end of the game now and these things need sorting.

[Luca Blight]

I assume you’ve played with scum!icon before, Datisi. How does this game compare?

[Luca Blight]

Also, given Icon’s reason for reading Alim as a PR, I’m sure he would have read Aldu as a PR after he refused to claim.

Personally I didn’t think there was anything pr indicative about either of them.

From my point of view, Aldu looked like a VT. I think it's a bit of a jump to say Ico-scum killed Aldu for looking like a PR, even though you didn't necessarily read him that way yourself.

I know that Ico said he thought alimdia was a PR, but Ico only admitted that he thought alimdia was a power role when you asked him about this post. If your theory is true, then I'm not sure if he would admit that as scum. And if Ico was scum that killed alimdia for that reason, then why would he also 'strongly advise people not to push alimdia' yesterday? I would think that Ico-scum might like to see the supposed PR get votes and potentially have to claim.

Scum!Icon could hardly deny he thought Alim was a pr when I asked him as his D2 post made it pretty clear that’s what he thought (subsequent to Icon’s VT claim).

Pops SR Icon, so that’s reason enough for Icon to be content with that lynch while looking ‘pro-town’ by ‘protecting’ a possible PR.

The only reason the Alim kill makes sense is if scum really thought he was Tracker, and you can seen from D2 that I thought Icon was Tracker and Icon, given he’s VT, must have thought Alim was Tracker.