Newbie 1966: History [GAME OVER]

[RadiantCowbells]

Hi I'm town I only read the slot I was taking but I'll catch up later tonight.

[RadiantCowbells]

Really didn't think that scum would have played like my predecessor but I'll be honest that I wasn't 100% 100% sure he was town, glad they didn't end up being scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Update

Vote Count

Jocus Aevorum:

EspeciallyTheLies, SausasaurusRex, Yimmy

Jake The Wolfie:

Jocus Aevorum

PyroDerma

(Being Replaced)

:[/i]

Dunnstral

No Vote:

Moonchild, Jake The Wolfie, LoserdudeOG, PyroDerma

With 9 people it takes 5 to lynch

Day will end when the timer below hits zero:
(expired on 2019-11-22 18:50:36)

I'm not being LAMIST I really don't take slots if I'm not 90%+ish sure that they're town or have really confident outside scumreads.

[RadiantCowbells]

Sorry that quote wasn't supposed to be there reading atm

[RadiantCowbells]

Loser could be scum but I'm not 100% sure I'm not scumreading a playstyle

[RadiantCowbells]

Leaning towards it being playstyle atm

[RadiantCowbells]

Hi ETL how are you doing

Can I get a full readslist from you

[RadiantCowbells]

Really not a fan of moonchild but we'll see her replacement I guess

[RadiantCowbells]

I think saurus is town at least 95% of the time

[RadiantCowbells]

Jocus is like really bad and I understand the votes

But I'm not convinced he's like scummy

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Moonchild

Even with that slot lined up for replacement I'm voting it right now.

[RadiantCowbells]

Vague townleans on all of
JTW Jocus Loserdude Dunn

Reserve the right to change any of these reada

[RadiantCowbells]

Add saurus and myself as locktown

Leftovers ETL Moonchild Yummy

Wait I kinda liked Timmy as well so I'll look into ETL MOONCHILD

[RadiantCowbells]

Not looking great tbh

[RadiantCowbells]

Yes I know the name is Tommy the phone is autocorrecting fuck well I'm not going back fuck this game

[RadiantCowbells]

Y I m klm y

[RadiantCowbells]

Wtf

[RadiantCowbells]

Be warned in advance it would be very characteristic of me to decide tomorrow that my reads are all wrong and have a totally different direction tomorrow etc etc

[RadiantCowbells]

No but actually lol I think it's ETL Moonchild

[RadiantCowbells]

Anyway someone chat with me if you want any more content from me today

[RadiantCowbells]

I could actually case either of ETL Moonchild individually if I was so inclined

Saurus just posts things that town disproportionately focus on, Dunn feels more town than scum but I'm not super confident on him, and I think that Jocus's well I gotta be lynched today since I'm being scumread is town the vast majority of the time.

[RadiantCowbells]

Actually I changed my mind

VOTE: ETL

I think she's scum a higher % of the time than moongirl

[RadiantCowbells]

Also nothing says an RC entrance like a big fight between me and ETL

[RadiantCowbells]

hi how are you

[RadiantCowbells]

I retract my JTW townread I think

I'm not retracting any of my others rn

[RadiantCowbells]

Maybe not idk

Everyone's so townie l

[RadiantCowbells]

interesting that you already paid lip service to scumreading Moonchild yet ended up voting ETL.

[RadiantCowbells]

note that this is not calling you scum for that, this is querying you for more information.

[RadiantCowbells]

I will actually retract my LoserdudeOG townread.

[RadiantCowbells]

i actually kinda townread Dunn voting the person he didn't say he was scumreading, not that I wasn't already townreading him before.

i'm also a lot less iffy on moonchild. If I had to presently take a guess as to the scumteam it'd be LoserdudeOG/ETL

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll bite on VOTE: jake but if it turns out hes town, my money is on EspeciallyTheLies.

this is like

trademark

buddy-buddy interactions

[RadiantCowbells]

to clarify my loserdudeog read I never stopped having a lot of tonal issues with him but I wasn't really sure if it was a playstyle thing or not. I am still not sure if it's a playstyle thing or not but the PoE is getting pretty tight atm

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not buying the whole "oops i forgot about this im coming in late" then giving us a bunch of info that put us on the hunt of a jake/yimmy team. I definitely think that one of these people is his scumbuddy and that hes throwing them under the bus to prove his reliability.

this is hella sketch tho and that's not even a tonal thing this is just very scummy

[RadiantCowbells]

because it's trademark buddy-buddy play to FOS your buddy sometime in the future while continuing to vote and lynch townies

[RadiantCowbells]

also it just tonally felt like a buddy-buddy thing type item kinda deal you get me

[RadiantCowbells]

y'know what i'm saying bruh

also u been around quite a few times today while i've been checking in and you didn't feel like saying much till i fosed u

[RadiantCowbells]

y'know what i'm saying bruh

also u been around quite a few times today while i've been checking in and you didn't feel like saying much till i fosed u

[RadiantCowbells]

it's not really pointing the gun at your partner day 1 if you're saying *IF* someone bla bla bla

idk i might vote you over her i'm not decided

[RadiantCowbells]

it's not really pointing the gun at your partner day 1 if you're saying *IF* someone bla bla bla

idk i might vote you over her i'm not decided

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not buying the whole "oops i forgot about this im coming in late" then giving us a bunch of info that put us on the hunt of a jake/yimmy team. I definitely think that one of these people is his scumbuddy and that hes throwing them under the bus to prove his reliability.

also if you would never fos your partner why do u think etl is fosing her partner

[RadiantCowbells]

also if you weren't buying it, why in the fuck do you vote jake instead of etl

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm really not buying what you're selling babe

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm really not buying what you're selling babe

[RadiantCowbells]

if you tell me who your scumpartner is i'll spare your life

[RadiantCowbells]

You'll never get a deal like this again

Tell me who your scumbuddy is

[RadiantCowbells]

doubling down on

RC town (dUh)
Saurus town
Yimmy town
Jocus town
JTW town

that's solve i win i'm the best

i would also say dunn is probably not scum in the remainder

not sure if i think moonchild/loserdude or etl/loserdude is more likely as of right now

VOTE: loserdude

should have given me your partner, then i wouldn't have had to do this.

[RadiantCowbells]

Avoiding questions now are we?

i don't answer questions from vile mafia scum like yourself

[RadiantCowbells]

(also the answer to that question is literally on the previous page in a 14 page game)

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll bite on VOTE: jake but if it turns out hes town, my money is on EspeciallyTheLies.

I'm not buying the whole "oops i forgot about this im coming in late" then giving us a bunch of info that put us on the hunt of a jake/yimmy team. I definitely think that one of these people is his scumbuddy and that hes throwing them under the bus to prove his reliability.

I really can't get over this.
I do suspect a shit ton of the stuff that he's posted but most of it's stuff that I have issues with sometimes scumreading people for when it's just a playstyle read.

But none of this makes sense from a town perspective. The way that he discredits ETL is super weird. The fact that he 'does not buy' her play and yet is voting the same person she's voting. The fact that he assumes that she's bussing one of them to establish herself as a townread as opposed to, like, town pushing a random mislynch. People who do not bus tend to systematically underrate the likelihood of bussing and newb!town also tend to systematically underrate the likelihood of bussing. Then you have this guy confidently declaring that ETL is bussing but he wants to help her bus. Nyeh.

On the other hand, this makes complete sense as scum like regardless of circumstance.
1) If ETL is town, he's setting up a push on her the next day using the townflip as bait.
2) If ETL is scum, he's distancing but setting up to push these people as scumpartners even if ETL gets scumread. Hell, he could even have legitimately intended to push her for the flip.

[RadiantCowbells]

it's not a very good explanation for what i'm calling you out for. it's a response as to why you specifically voted him to l-x at that point.

[RadiantCowbells]

also the cagey way that you're engaging with me really doesn't engender feelings that you're town

[RadiantCowbells]

I think that Jocus's well I gotta be lynched today since I'm being scumread is town the vast majority of the time.

Ahh I see I was supposed to just take your word for this as a newbie. Got it.

Umm? You can choose to or not to. But you're acting like I didn't explain why I was townreading Jocus and were trying to discredit me for it, so I explained it.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's interesting that you're talking to me like you think that I'm scum then you say stuff like "cool, be wrong", etc.

What's your read on me?

[RadiantCowbells]

hmmmmmmmm

[RadiantCowbells]

hmmmmmmmm

[RadiantCowbells]

such difficult decisioning :v

kinda tempted to go back on 1/2 of etl/moonchild

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: EaTL

[RadiantCowbells]

We did it!

[RadiantCowbells]

Why am I insufferable exactly?

[RadiantCowbells]

I think Saura also needs to be moved to a position lower than everyone else I'm townreading

[RadiantCowbells]

Still good with Yimmy/RC/JTW/Jocus town, will be locking those in tomorrow probably and that should give us a rather narrow Poe from here on out

I'm also townreading Loserdude and Dunnstral but I wouldn't be 'all that surprised' if either were scum whereas I would be rather surprised if anyone in the townread category was.

[RadiantCowbells]

Great adventure so far, done reading this for tonight goodbye

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm gonna need some serious cases from the people voting moonchild to be honest. She's my top townread.

Okay yeah ETL is scum so much of the time.

[RadiantCowbells]

Revising educated scumteam guess to Saurus/ETL.

[RadiantCowbells]

Y’know, RC, after my last game where you so confidently told everyone in endgame that “ETL was obvtown”, this whole entrance of yours tells me far more about your own alignment this game. You see me as a threat. And you should.

Scum post

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah I’m gonna VOTE: RC simply for that painful LAMIST that he opened with. Never thought I’d see terrible acting via reading text...

It's literally the same thing I say whenever I replace into games because I don't like playing scum. Get over it.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't see anyone as threats as scum. NSG had the honor of being the only player who scared me as scum but I'm not even scared of her anymore because she's so watered down compared to how she used to be. I don't like your Jocus push and I think that you're probably scum as a result.

Even if you're town my townblock is still correct and you'd be better served figuring out which of my scumreads you agree and disagree with than picking a 1v1 with me. I can't count on one hand the amount of games this year where townies have insisted that I can't have reads this bad and I am therefore scum when none of my reads were wrong except where in the PoE I went.

That's your sole warning: I don't want to have a fight, I have little motivation to pick a fight as scum, and my PoE is tight enough that I think I can correctly lynch notyou scum today even if you're scum. But you talking to yourself about how I am clearly going after you because you scare me when in both the game I spectated and in our last game together my reads were way better than yours / your reads weren't so great is questionable and I'd prefer to deal with this in less of a brutish 1v1 sense regardless of what you're going to end up flipping.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't even know why I am doing that given that I think you're scum but it's done so yeah.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like you know full well if you actually reason it through that I'm not going after you as scum because I'm scared of you. That position is truly a nonstarter. And I can't read or do anything to potentially reevaluate my scumread on you if you're dishonestly omgussing me. So if you're scum who 'gets it' that you gotta fight me because you can't change my read on you, fine, let's do it but don't complain you don't want a fight when you've chosen the path that leads directly to a fight? Like you can try to fool me or play some sort of macro game or something, but if you want blood then I'll bring the blood.

[RadiantCowbells]

And by the way in case it's not obvious to anyone else I don't enjoy playing scum and if I had taken a scum slot despite my best efforts to avoid taking one I wouldn't have the most posts in the game 24 hours after I joined.

[RadiantCowbells]

Cool. Be wrong. Can’t wait to see who agrees with you.

I think you’re annoying af and the fact that you’re SO confident in me being scum is gonna be really embarrassing for you when I flip as town. I didn’t really suspect pyro when he accused me and voted for me, but then your LAMIST entrance seemed so fake so idk. I’m gonna say my gut tells me you’re town atm. Frustrating, but town.

Yeah I’m gonna VOTE: RC simply for that painful LAMIST that he opened with. Never thought I’d see terrible acting via reading text...

Interesting read transition by the way.

[RadiantCowbells]

Just keep in mind from where ETL's standing it's a lot easier to try to mislynch me than to actually try to fool me and if she has now changed her mind as indicated in 375 and earlier that Jocus might not be scum, JTW and Y jkl m y are probably town, then going after me for having a flopsided readslist when she basically decided to sheep my entire townblock is a very strange thing to do. However if she is scum who is afraid that my correctly townreading a shit ton of town will lead people to listen to me over her (hint: it would be extremely bad for me as scum to clear this many people this quickly) then yeah she's gonna stop calling these people scum because she needs them to vote me with her.

[RadiantCowbells]

have confidence in my town reads. They have been correct 99% of the time. The rest is PoE.

Are you... asking for me to call you out on this claim

[RadiantCowbells]

Resisted the urge to quote from past games.

Everyone else should think critically about that claim though.

[RadiantCowbells]

So, I replaced this slot because 1) I believed it to be town and 2) I am fairly sure that I know who the remaining scum is.

Would an outline of why I thought that my predecessor was town before I took the slot be helpful or should I just move onto my scumcase and my reasons to townread other slots?

Also, I disagree that the slot was scummy and I wouldn't have taken the slot if I thought that it was

And that's not a commentary on your alignment really, I just think you're scared that I'm going to townspew the slot and remove a mislynch (if you're scum) or prevent a town win (if you're town.)
My slot's not scum. I have a very small PoE in this game and objectively have a lot to contribute. If you're town you should really unvote that.

Think whatever you want. But you're scum.

If this is all the engagement you give to me, I'm going to leave the entire town with the directive to kill you tomorrow because to me there's only 2 viable scum and you're one.

This is a past game that I replaced into.
Note that of the 2 viable scum one was in fact scum.
Town went on to win that game despite the fact that the remaining scum was the most universal townread at the point that I replaced in, largely because of me.

Do you think that this entrance is especially different from that one outside of the fact that I qualified my uncertainty as to this slots alignment (which by the way I have zero motivation to do as scum when I can simply hide behind yeah my reads are fantastic and I townread this slot so the slot had to have been town.)

[RadiantCowbells]

Anyway ETL I won't join future games with you but I think that you're scum and I've had very bad experiences in the recent past with out of game influences used by scum to manipulate so I have no intentions of engaging with you about you not liking my play outside of saying what I have already said.

[RadiantCowbells]

And I would like to believe that you would have made some effort to reach out to me if you were town here, js.

[RadiantCowbells]

I can't count on one hand the amount of games this year where townies have insisted that I can't have reads this bad and I am therefore scum when none of my reads were wrong except where in the PoE I went.

Btw Eth0s in the game that I pulled from was one of the many examples of this. Called me scum for having a PoE as bad as Jamelia Eth0s but Jamelia was actually the scum

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll just step out then but if it turns out that you're scum using this as a defensive tactic I think that's truly a disgusting thing to do.

[RadiantCowbells]

Otherwise I hope you get better and sorry about whatever you're dealing with atm.

[RadiantCowbells]

I was bullied into staying. Still gonna rest up a little bit.

Curious why Sausa comments on my retraction but not my original townread and why Yimmy voted LoserdudeOG over ETL.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think you should read it rather than be fed a secondhand account of it. The game is only 17 pages.

[RadiantCowbells]

You're online Jake the Wolfie I'd appreciate some sort of catch up

[RadiantCowbells]

Do we know many Mafia are here

Never mind I’m bad at reading I just saw

Regardless of MOONCHILD actual alignment I think locktowning them for this in the way that ETL has is sketchy as hell

[RadiantCowbells]

Why?

[RadiantCowbells]

That's, uh, pretty out of nowhere

[RadiantCowbells]

Well I think Jocus is town and you haven't responded at all to anything that happened over the last few pages besides to reiterate reads you already held before them. Did nothing either me or ETL or LDog say change your reads on anything?

[RadiantCowbells]

I've caught up with all emotional involvement in the game removed and I still think that the correct play is to lynch ETL.
I understand that others are townreading her, largely for her presence as opposed to anything town indicative, but I also think it's pretty common in newbie games for one scum to be heavily TR.

I also think that it would remove a lot of potential agony for all participants in the thread and in spite of ~things~ I am not willing to drop my scumread on her and I think that should say a lot.

[RadiantCowbells]

Just experientially all the posts she has made thus far this game are ones that reasonably competent scum make a lot and that turnaround on me for us being 'unable to work together' when I have gone so much farther than I had to in terms of reaching out to her... I assign her a higher level of burden of proficiency than to scumread me here when I've given her so much more than I would have had to.

If you think Jocus is town then you must also believe that I am scum. Why else would they be voting me?
Also, why don't you post all of your thoughts into one post instead of making 10 pages of messages a day?

This is an extremely silly post; I don't think that your alignment and Jocus's are correlated. I don't think you're so good as town that you can't townread scum. I don't think you're so good as town that you can't scumread town. And I post dozens of posts a day in this specific game because no one else is posting and I want to give the quieter people a lot to respond to.

Not that I don't generally post at an above average rate but I'm definitely ramping up my post rate to try to counterbalance the fact that this game is on page 17 and it's almost EOD1.

[RadiantCowbells]

We're in a thunderdome right now. Either I or Jocus is scum. And Jocus hasn't acted as a town would, only tunneling one person without reading others, even when others tell them to read others.

I don't have any evidence that you're competent enough that your thunderdomes are guaranteed to be TvS.
I have a ton of evidence that my D1 reads are good enough that if I'm townreading both of you you're probably both town and if I'm scumreading ETL she's probably scum.

If you think you're so good that your thunderdome's are by definition TvS I welcome you to provide me the site that you come from so I can verify that claim for myself.

Otherwise, I'm going to vote for the person that I think is scum and not the person that I think has played in a towny manner.

[RadiantCowbells]

My gimmick as a player is that in my last large theme game on

day one

I had 5 scumreads and 4 out of 5 of them contained all the scum in the game.
I'm not going to derail that trust in my own competency to scumread someone because you're saying they're scum unless you provide serious evidence that your reads deserve such consideration.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not trying to burden of proficiency myself either here because I shy away from arguing based on my competence in newbie games, but I am really failing to see how "I am tdoming this mofo" means I must abide by it.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean, that's dumb. Not everyone is equally talented at catching scum and people's scumreads aren't equal. If NSG scumreads someone and ABR scumreads someone else and I have little engagement in the game to determine my own scumreads I am going to vote the person that NSG scumreads over the person that ABR scumreads.

[RadiantCowbells]

And besides, isn't that the same argument that you're making on your own behalf when you state that I MUST respect your thunderdome with Jocus?

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, I don't claim a perfect scumhunting record. I have never claimed that ETL is going to flip 100% of the time scum. I simply think as far as I know she is more likely to be scum than anyone else in this game. I'm not trying to say lol u should vote ETL because ur godking demands it as far as I'm aware.

You practically said "I am Incredibly good at finding scum, therefore I both cannot be scum and my scumreads are correct"

Where? I think that I said that I cannot be scum for sure because I know that I'm not scum. I don't recall ever asserting that ETL was flipping scum literally 100% of the time.

[RadiantCowbells]

Seriously, why is me saying that I think my reads are pretty good different than you telling me I gotta respect your thunderdome with Jocus?

[RadiantCowbells]

If you cannot see that Jocus has deathtunneled me since Page 1, then you need to re-read the entire game again.

What's the relevance of this though? Why can't town thunderdome another town? Why can't town thunderdome scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

Like I don't care. I don't think that's good evidence one way or another for either of your alignments. I'm not scumreading either of you independently of that. I am interested in flipping scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Unless Deathtunneling without producing any meaningful content is a bad scumtell

It is an

extremely

bad scumtell. I would argue that it's a towntell except when applied to a certain category of player.

[RadiantCowbells]

I wouldn't either, but even if we take it as a factual statement I don't think it's evidence of what he is claiming that it is evidence of.

[RadiantCowbells]

That's not the question we're asking: the question we're asking is whether that indicates that he is scum. I don't think it indicates he is scum. I have seen a shit ton of townies do nothing but push for individuals lynches. I would argue that the recipient individual being town actually points moreso to the original townie being town. Scum usually play a lot more politically, E.G. ETL.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like I understand the position you're coming from because I've seen it before from a lot of newbies but this interaction is if anything convincing me more that you/Jocus is TvT.

Do you think that I'm scum defending Jocus?

[RadiantCowbells]

Does that make him scum though? Like...

[RadiantCowbells]

It's not scummy to have wrong reads you know.

Regardless of your confidence in them

[RadiantCowbells]

Even when I flip scum,

owo what's this desu

[RadiantCowbells]

Jake you're not obvtown. I have a lot of ways of generating townreads on people that other people don't have. I don't find scumreading you outright to be an unlikely town position. I am not going to end up voting Jocus at EOD because I don't think that he is scum and I think that ETL is. That's really the end: if you had a case that wasn't him calling you scum I'd take it seriously but that's all you've put forward so far.

[RadiantCowbells]

Even when I flip scum,

owo what's this desu

If you honestly think that I meant this the way it was typed, then you are delusional.

It's not scummy to have wrong reads you know.

Regardless of your confidence in them

It is scummy to not change your reads when the person you're scumreading gives you reason to doubt their scuminess.

I don't agree that you've made yourself clear enough town that Jocus is scum for scumreading you.

I also would have responded very differently if I thought that was a scumslip.

[RadiantCowbells]

And if you think that scumreading obvious town is a scumtell you should be looking at ETL calling me scum with a lot more scrutiny.

[RadiantCowbells]

Man

If you think that I'm town

Can you trust my experience when I say that being derptunneled on someone is not really a scumtell and that from the outside your fixation on him looks similar to his fixation on you?

[RadiantCowbells]

Like I've been here before you know?

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think the manner of giving up is scum indicative and I think that ETLs way of pushing for the finisher is.

[RadiantCowbells]

I would even go so far as to say in all my time playing mafia I have never seen this particular style of giving up from scum but I've seen it from many many town

[RadiantCowbells]

Anyways

Yimmy, I'm expecting you to switch to ETL.

Arkias, waiting for some sort of catchup from you as you promised

[RadiantCowbells]

Also JTW what do you think about ETL deciding that when I started defending Jocus Aevornum that he was town?

[RadiantCowbells]

Vote: Extend[/v]

[RadiantCowbells]

I think that Moonchild's townslip + the fact that she immediately went back on it a minute later is really sketch and they have no meaningful content besides so if Arkias doesn't impress me I will consider switching to them.

I would probably lynch ETL after for just 100% locktowning them for one of the fakest slips I have ever seen, but yeah.

[RadiantCowbells]

The fact that you keep pointing out scummy things that ETL does and then refuse to vote her and start questioning my calling myself locktown when you already agreed that my play doesn't make sense from a scum agenda doesn't make me feel any better about your slot, Yimmy, particularly given that your original post gave equal time to calling ETL and Loserdude scum and yet you're still resisting a vote there.

I can give more reasons but I'm not too fond of that and if ETL flips scum and you're not on the wagon I think town should speedkill you tomorrow.

[RadiantCowbells]

The fact that you keep pointing out scummy things that ETL does and then refuse to vote her and start questioning my calling myself locktown when you already agreed that my play doesn't make sense from a scum agenda doesn't make me feel any better about your slot, Yimmy, particularly given that your original post gave equal time to calling ETL and Loserdude scum and yet you're still resisting a vote there.

I can give more reasons but I'm not too fond of that and if ETL flips scum and you're not on the wagon I think town should speedkill you tomorrow.

[RadiantCowbells]

And I'm obvtown and I'm not going to pretend that I'm not.

[RadiantCowbells]

And I'm obvtown and I'm not going to pretend that I'm not.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like the only thing that you've called manipulative from me this game is trying to get you to vote ETL. I don't for a fucking minute believe that you think that me/LoserDudeOG is SvS.
So what exactly is so manipulative that I'm doing?

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, I have a townread on LoserDudeOG. I have a scumread on EspeciallyTheLies. You spent a post asserting that you didn't think they responded to your posts well.
How do you turn around and say that me trying to get you to vote EspeciallyTheLies, who you have already claimed to scumread, is somehow manipulative?

If I don't agree with who anyone is trying to vote, what am I supposed to do just be like lol ok this person is voting town I literally can't do anything about it!!!

[RadiantCowbells]

To locktown based only on a townslip and nothing else that's necessarily town indicative seems naive. I could understand thinking moonchild could betown based on it (even though I disagree), or maybe even a fair bit of confidence, but this is a little crazy. I don't really see the scum motivation for such confidence, but on the other hand it makes no sense to be so confident based on so little without some other knowledge.

like you even called her out in your last post then turned around and called me manipulative for trying to get you to vote her?

[RadiantCowbells]

Hella yikes there bro.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think that there's a decent probability that you're scum with ETL and that you're paying lip service to her being scum (which you've done several times) but you're going to try to divert me onto another player.

I think that how you have played this in thread lines up with that given that you've repeatedly called her out for things but have negatively treated my townread on Loserdude and also called Jake scum in your last post to try to open up counterwagon possibilities but despite the claimed reasons to scumread her you're turning suspicion back on me when I say that you should vote the person you've scumread.

I'll give a more coherent case but I think that me being wary of you being manipulative here makes complete sense with the way things are going.
Calling it manipulative for me to try to get someone who expressed suspicion of another player to vote said player does not.

I mean, you didn't really seem to care about my reasons for any of my other reads, you asked me about LoserDudeOG but never followed up.
why is the read from me that you're concerned is manipulative the one that we share according to your own posts on the matter?

[RadiantCowbells]

I suck at making cases. Okay, I'll make a case.

[RadiantCowbells]

I was playing DND and I have other stuff to do and making cases is not fun for me.

It'll happen, it just takes some time bla bla bla

[RadiantCowbells]

grr making cases is just the worst

[RadiantCowbells]

Ugh

The struggles

[RadiantCowbells]

Here we go!

I really like Moonchild's posts thusfar. I think the answers she had to Jake's questions came off genuine and interested. I don't get the sense that there's an agenda there, at least not yet. And then there was the town slip, so

I think that if you genuinely believe the slot town slipped, that's front and center in your read on the slot. It's the magnum opus for your townread because it literally locks them as town.
With that said, I do not think that Town!EspeciallyTheLies gives a read that talks about how she's "genuine and interested" and how there's "not an agenda, at least not yet" (and if they townslipped, why is it a not yet?)
And then as an afterthought says and then there was the town slip. If you believe the townslip, that's it, the end. It's not something that you put at the end of your read as an afterthought.

I think it's pretty reasonable, but at the same time, it is entirely possible to be an attempt of pocketing.

If Yimmy is town, why is it reasonable for him to defend you, when he presumably doesn't know anything of your alignment. <<< This should be suspicious to you. Why isn't it?

And if you disagree with the above, then you must believe he's scum trying to pocket you, in which case my question becomes - why are you not voting for him?

p-edit - buncha posts to read

This is really dumb; why can't Yimmy have a correct, legitimate townread on Jake? What's with this "oh the townread MUST be faked and Jake is scummy for not scumreading it?"
Like, what?

I'm gonna need some serious cases from the people voting moonchild to be honest. She's my top townread.

This is actually the biggest one for me and I think that I've called it out but I didn't explain why it bothered me, which it does for two reasons:
1) The phrasing. "serious cases" and "to be honest". It sounds super exaggerated and fake; I don't think that's how town talks about this townread.
2) The fact that instead of herself pushing for why Moonchild is town, she's instead externalizing the responsibility onto everyone else, which is really common from scum and seems very unlikely from Town!EspeciallyTheLies who I know as a strong personality and someone who will defend her own townreads with her own effort/posting/cases.

I feel like saus is just phoning it in. why?

It just seems like you don't really care where your vote goes or what's actually happening. You can say it's because you want answers but you need to interact with her, which I haven't seen much of. Do you have no suspicions anywhere?

This feels more like scum pretending to have a town engagement than it feels like town having a real interaction. It feels specifically designed to look town. I would say that as well about the post she made about needing more info on multiple wagons rather than hammering someone early in the day. I think town her would be more likely to just say we don't lynch someone on Page 6 whereas scum her wants to milk it for all the towncred that she can so she goes on that long ramble about pro-town and bla bla bla. And that's ignoring the "just seems like" and the fact that the phrasing feels both really excessive and not like a proper follow up on phoning it in: she gives an extremely scummy description in this post of what she previously called phoning it in, which is low efforting.

don't understand why Moonchild is being scumread. It's pretty clear to me she townslipped unintentionally, but even despite that, her ISO is pretty town-motivated. Can you walk me through your read there a bit more, please?

Again. "Pretty clear to me", as well as the fact that she's trying to get someone else to clarify their read on moonchild as opposed to just telling them no fuck off she's town.
You might say that this is more pro-town than doing that, but that doesn't mean that it's more likely to come from town her.

@Yimmy re your responses to me in your post 181 - thank you for requoting what you said - I must have missed it somehow. While I agree that townslips are easily faked, I don't think that fits with Moonchild's other posts. They come across rather genuine. If it was a ploy, why immediately correct herself in the next post like 2 seconds later? Why not wait to collect the towncred? If her other posts sounded more sneaky or nervous, I might believe it was a fabricated slip, but at his moment I do not.

I dunno we finally got an expansion on this but it feels like entirely meaningless things to say. "posts sounded more sneaky or nervous" is a really easy thing for scum to say to buoy up a read that's hard to support based off of in thread textual evidence. I personally do not believe there is in thread textual evidence to support Moonchild being 'obvious town'. I think that it is a very easy read for scum to take to try to look pro-town though. I also think that it's a potential stance for scum to take on a buddy. But I don't really buy ETL being this sure Moonchild is town as town, and the unfalsifiability of the reasons makes me feel no better about it.

Dunn’s opportunistic vote on me is also pretty suspect. Very much makes me rethink jocus.

I don't think town her who was tunneling Jocus as ridiculously as she was suddenly just drops the read because two people are chainsaw attacking her; quite the opposite.
I think that she would double down on her Jocus read as town in this position because we're derailing his wagon. What motivation do we have to prevent her from lynching scum?
Makes more sense to lightly defend him and softly push her, let her lead the mislynch, then take advantage of her looking awful from that mislynch to lynch her.
On the other hand, if she's scum who knows she's pushing town!Jocus she would back down on this because making more enemies than you have to at a point like this is bad.

His “reads”. They’re garbage and twisted. And I know he’s a better player than that so they must be made up. He’s attempted to spin a specific narrative and take advantage of newbie naïveté. If he was town he’d recognize my town game right away. And yet he’s gotten the entire player list flopsided. I know for a fact RC is an incredibly strong player so this doesn’t jive.

Already pointed this out, but she calls my player list flopsided and then reevaluates the vast majority of her reads into the same reads that I have.

If I had to choose the two town from this group I’d say probably ... ugh. Maybe Dunn and jocus?

Think for a second which players she as scum is most interested in pocketing/preventing them from being interested in lynching her in that category if she's scum. It's these two.
The one voting her and the one that she was derptunneling earlier to prevent enemies being made. LDog was townreading her, etc.

I thought pyro might be town but I’m entirely convinced RC is scum at this point. << this is why town loses. RCscum = town loss without a strong enough counterforce. Unfortunately that force is not me.

Why even mention that you thought Pyro might be town unless you're setting up for after I flip town?

I have done that in the past and it didn’t work. We clash on a personality level and that’s fine. It doesn’t have anything to do with who you are as a person. Our styles of discussion/talking do not work together. I don’t have the patience anymore to deal with combative players. IRL reasons make it very important for me not to get stressed if I want to stay out of the hospital.

For the sake of the mod I will stick this game through as much as I can but I’m not interested in this situation. I’m not interested in what you think of me or my abilities as a player. So either push for my lynch or do something else, I don’t care.

I've been extremely minimally interpersonally aggressive this game, and this post really doesn't make sense as a response to someone that you think is scum.

I believe the town slip was genuine.

Still a very easy stance to take as scum and I think doubling down on it makes sense to look pro-town but I acknowledge that this isn't the best case ever against her.

at least two people suspect you pretty prominently so to proclaim yourself as obvtown seemed ignorant of that fact. It doesn't make sense from your perspective to call yourself obvtown to me and I was curious

ETL is scum and LDog doesn't have a good read on me. I'm obvious town regardless of if everyone in the game sees it.

As a final note I just think that it's healthier for the game for one of the two of us to be removed Day 1. I think that she's scum, she claims to think that I'm scum, she has expressed that for real life reasons she doesn't want this game to be messy, I'm doing my best to keep it not messy but I think that 1) even if she's town removing one of us from play is correct 2) her slot for the moonchild read alone is one that i would never want to see in endgame and 3) if she doesn't want to play with me and the mod doesn't want me to leave I think the lynch is the best tool to make everyone happy.

Don't take my comments at the end as subtracting from my scumread on her. I absolutely scumread her. But that's why I think it should absolutely not be kicked down the curb.

[RadiantCowbells]

Anyway. I didn't get to see anything from Arkias to my chagrin so I can't give a meaningful read on him/her and as a result I'm holding off on my full player readslist, one of which I'd absolutely like to give before EOD1.
All of my readslists so far have been made in haste to keep up with changing internal reads and should be taken with a grain of salt because my reads when I first join a game are always in deep flux.

My final readslist of the day is to be taken if I die as the sole one that accurately represents my reads.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like it's hard to not feel really bad for her if I repped in and fucked up her game but I really do think that she's scum and the door to us trying to work together in spite of that is shut by this point.

[RadiantCowbells]

One final thing I've been on the fence about saying is that as someone considered a top end scumplayer I rarely get serious before I have to because I trust in my ability to project town later in the game if I have a weak entrance and get scumread for it. The fact that ETL went from being imo really scummy before I repped in to shaping up and trying to project town after is a neon flag that she's scum. I think that she's frustrated in a large part because she wasn't actually trying so hard because it was a newbie and then my replace in came out of nowhere and all of a sudden she has to try to compensate for her earlier game which isn't really how scum play works when I'm not just gonna forget about that stuff. I dunno. I respect her town play too much to think that this is it and I think that the specific manner that she is scummy in this game is exactly the kind of way that she would be scummy as scum in a game where she was playing around fooling random general people as opposed to anyone who really knows what they're doing, and she hits all the easy townread notes that I'd expect scum her to try to hit so yeah.

[RadiantCowbells]

What happens if ETL is just really good and you're scum reading them because of it?
Also, please make your posts more consice. You don't have to make each and every post you make a novel It's really hard and unfriendly when you use unnecessary words to make your posts longer.

I don't think "ETL is just really good" is an answer to literally anything that I've brought against her.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like that would be a rebuttal if my case on her was that she had TMI reads or something. I don't think I've presented a single TMI read case on her. MoonLight kinda but it's more about how she presents it than the argument that she doesn't have the information for it. I would turn that back on you and ask what if you're scumreading Jocus because he's bad?

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, I think that I have the opposite of a tendency to misread stronger players. I think in a way that most players look for orange by looking for yellow whereas I look for the red and most scum try to look yellow to get townread. I have struggles with certain individuals who tend to appear red as town but I don't think as a general rule more competent players are better at fooling me and I am very used to being the sole person to correctly scumread scum who most players in a lobby consider to be having a superstar performance while I'm just like uhh why the fuck are you guys townreading this dude?

[RadiantCowbells]

Scum ETL absolutely wants to fakeclaim here; she 100% claims that (or another PR? I'm not sure what the optimal PR claim is and I tried hard to make sure there isn't one) as scum and would be incompetent not to.

I never actually worked out correct play in this situation, so I'm going to figure that out now.

[RadiantCowbells]

Anything besides a doctor can CC her. I think the correct play is for certain roles to claim first that can claim relatively safely and if none are CCs then we just move on I guess.

Then I would say that they haven't offered any reads and at most has been tunneling me. I still don't get why you don't see how even when a town is pressed for reads for other people when death tunneling, they should at the very least consider doing it. Focus has done nothing of the sort. They aren't just bad, they're lazy. They're lazy because they are scum, because they're waiting for the town to self-destruct.

This is motivated reasoning.

[RadiantCowbells]

So, it's obvious that FN -> Tracker claiming should be a thing. It's less clear to me whether it's optimal for one of two masons to claim.

[RadiantCowbells]

This is why you're scum RC. You are so forcefully deathtunneling but if you were actually town then you’d have the capacity to reevaluate.


This is why you're scum RC. You are so forcefully deathtunneling but if you were actually town then you’d have the capacity to reevaluate.

lol

[RadiantCowbells]

If none of them exist then there's no reason for us not to go through the motions of having them claim?
I'm going to err on the side of saying that if there's masons they should claim tomorrow and not today.
I'm also going to say that it's strictly more optimal for a friendly neighbour to out than a tracker but that either of them outing here is super worth.

God why are you so unpleasant....

I mean I literally don't know what you want me to say. I think that you know that it's true that you would claim cop as scum here even if you're not. shrug.
I'm just tryna do my job.

[RadiantCowbells]

We really need that two day extension with the incredibly slow rate that people are posting.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright here's the plan.

1) Go get Thespio to give us that deadline extension.
2) In your next post, if you're a Friendly Neighbour please counterclaim ETL and then we will lynch them.
If you're anything else that contradicts ETL's claim, don't say anything that gives that away.
3) If no FN claims, if you're a Tracker do the same.
Again, if you're masons or jailkeeper keep it to yourself and CC ETL tomorrow.

Why the fuck would scum claim unprompted when CCs in newbies is so astronomically high and high risk?!? Do you really think I’m that fucking horrible of a player?

Go ahead. Wait for claims. They won’t happen and if they do it’s from scum which will be apparent the moment I flip because I’m not making it to end game here.

I mean. This assumes that you think that you can make it to the end of the day without claiming.

[RadiantCowbells]

You're simultaneously talking to me like you think that I'm scum and bad town.

[RadiantCowbells]

Only works if you weren't also calling me scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean, if you're town same goes right back at you calling me scum when I think I'm well past unmistakably town at this point.
I tried to reach out to you and look for a common ground scumread, which I really didn't have to do, but I got absolutely nothing for it.

I will probably be lynched either today or tomorrow if you're in fact town but don't delude yourself that my scumreading you is worse than vice versa.

[RadiantCowbells]

If ETL goes uncced by the FN/Tracker categories I would recommend lynching in {Yimmy, Sausaurusrex, Dunnstral}
I am not going to allow myself to be lynched before we've done a JK/Mason claim tomorrow.
If at that point the setup is evidently Cop/Doctor (ie, the only setup in which this conflict would still be a problem) I'll just selfvote and stop playing this game.

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh and I recommend not lynching Sausaurusrex or whatever his name is, so. Yeah. Yimmy/Dunnstral.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think Jocus is scum and I'm pretty confident on that

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll explain Moonchild later tonight

He wouldn't start prodging if he were scum he'd try to convince people that his willingness to be lynched was legit without doing that. Prodging is actual town and I don't think this is as common for scum to fake as people faced with it seem to think it is?

[RadiantCowbells]

Like I legitimately can think of 0 examples of scum doing this ever.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like you can make hypothetical he could and would arguments but I think that he is Towny by play and I don't think I've ever seen scum do what he's doing and I think if we want to flip scum we should vote in Dunn/Yimmy

[RadiantCowbells]

Have I made a St. Yimmy joke yet

[RadiantCowbells]

ugh...

how can we solve this game

[RadiantCowbells]

but like unironically

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm gonna be honest here

i cannot get good reads if people aren't going to be posting more.

[RadiantCowbells]

honestly i get why etl would be townreading moonchild. don't wanna vote them. i also think sausasaurusrex is really pure. i have no reason to scumread dunnstral besides poe

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm actually starting to think I underestimated JTW. I called him town mostly for the shit tunnel on town but there's a lot to scumread tonally and in terms of the complete absence of engagement with logic
I feel like I could vote Dunnstral just off poe but I feel like if I did he would be town just the world punishing me for voting someone without a proper scumread

[RadiantCowbells]

like "built off of a foundation of lies" is something that i really shouldn't have glossed over.

[RadiantCowbells]

and i don't think that iso's especially hard to produce for even moderately competent scum, soOoOoO

[RadiantCowbells]

I am going to keep my vote on Jake for now because, as its been pointed out by several people, he has been screaming for people to add content, while putting out minimal content himself. The fact that he reads himself as locktown while seeing many of us doubt him and state our doubts, as well as what we need from him to quell those doubts seems arrogant. Definitely missing the point.

this is strange phrasing for town pushing a scumread.

[RadiantCowbells]

Sigh, I don't really want to vote JTW today either.

[RadiantCowbells]

Loserdude's tone shift on me makes me really wary of them tbh

Where did you go from scumreading to townreading me?

[RadiantCowbells]

Loserdude's tone shift on me makes me really wary of them tbh

Where did you go from scumreading to townreading me?

[RadiantCowbells]

Can I have a PT please

[RadiantCowbells]

Actualyl I'll just keep my own notes.

[RadiantCowbells]

Private topic. I wanted to stop posting everything I thought in thread but still have a written record of it and I have instead chosen to just fill a text document.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's usually considered proper to have the game mod do it particularly for newbies where it is often posted after game as 'player thoughts'.

[RadiantCowbells]

i switched to mafblack so i could actually read JTW

[RadiantCowbells]

but ok, yeah, I'm not really seeing him as scum.

So I townread then untownread then townread again ? {RC, Yimmy, Saurasaurus, JTW}
I exaggerated my certainty on Jocus town (though I do townlean him) and I guess we'll see what Menalque does. Probably not the days lynch though.
ETL isn't either.

Leftovers are Dunny, Moonarkias, LoserdudeOG

Kind of can see Dunny/LoserDudeOG moreso than any other combo that exclusively relies on me not having any wrong townreads/leans/ETL (which I usually don't?)

[RadiantCowbells]

oh wow i just realized i did a full circle on my reads

tried to reevaluate all of them and ended up with the exact same ones i had earlier

[RadiantCowbells]

so like yeah i think that we will probably flip scum if we kill in {dunn/loserdude/moonchild}

[RadiantCowbells]

So, why am I in RC's lynch pool now?

Actually, why are we following RC at all. Let's lynch the moonchild slot, or something.

VOTE: Arkias

So, why am I in RC's lynch pool now?

Actually, why are we following RC at all. Let's lynch the moonchild slot, or something.

VOTE: Arkias

and this probably isn't a bbus vote so that says I should be voting loserdude I think?

[RadiantCowbells]

Arkias I am kinda expecting more from you.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am also expecting more from you

[RadiantCowbells]

But you can coast for today at least on your predecessor

[RadiantCowbells]

Yimmy died today blew his brains out into the bay

In the state of mind it's his own private suicide ee

[RadiantCowbells]

I started fucking lying soon as my feet touched ground

[RadiantCowbells]

I think you're in luck and I had like one of those mornings where I wake up with a solve and I think it's Arkias/Loserdude

[RadiantCowbells]

Although I have no reason to clear Dunn either

[RadiantCowbells]

Even if Arkias flipped scum

[RadiantCowbells]

Like if the cop is outed this is an a-okay point in the game for Dunn to bus Moonchild

[RadiantCowbells]

Idk I do think the Poe is sound though

[RadiantCowbells]

Like I'm done rereading the game atp I have every post committed to memory now it's just a matter of time

[RadiantCowbells]

Why nor

[RadiantCowbells]

Join the train?!

VOTE: Moonchild

Hell he was even kinda prompted to.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's really not lol

[RadiantCowbells]

My main reluctance to consider Moonchild slot is that ETL hard opposes it and I don't want to further antagonize her.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's a really silly thing to worry about RVS whoever the fuck you want

[RadiantCowbells]

You should talk to her, I think she would appreciate some level of meaningful engagement with someone who isn't me.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm officially unopposed to Arkias if ETL withdraws her objections otherwise I'm going to follow her onto Dunnstral.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean Dunn/Arkias looks pretty bad in hindsight when you consider a few things that I've been looking past such as Dunn voting the person he hasn't expressed a scumread on over the one he had. Not that I think that's all that reliable of a scumtell and I kinda think that I was justified in scumreading it at the time.

I kinda feel in my gut this game is solved anyway.

[RadiantCowbells]

Justified in townreading it.

Idk this is kind of recursive reasoning but I think I would feel interested in reading the game further if the game wasn't correctly solved whereas I have literally zero motivation to read posts anymore or think about the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

Just wanna kill my scumreads and trust my townreads.

[RadiantCowbells]

I want to post but I have nothing to say.

[RadiantCowbells]

que?

[RadiantCowbells]

uwu

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean, from where you're standing, doesn't Arkias/Loserdude make at least some sense to you?

[RadiantCowbells]

Like that's a somewhat strange thing to say when I'm literally saying that the person you're voting is the person I would prefer to lynch today.

[RadiantCowbells]

JTW/Arkias is the only real error vector that I currently see.