Newbie 1966: History [GAME OVER]

[SausasaurusRex]

@Jack The Wolfie, I believe Jocus’ reason for voting me is because I was mafia in the previous game I played with him.

[SausasaurusRex]

Jake the Wolfie, why did you overreact to RVS?

I do beg your pardon. I did not Overreact. I simply asked why you two voted people for no logical reason.

I think the real question here is why 2 OTHER people bandwaggoned on the two people who were clearly voting randomly... seems p scummy 2 me O.O

I would disagree. It’s RVS, and they haven’t gotten anywhere close a lynch. 2 votes is fine, especially on the first days.

[SausasaurusRex]

@PyroDerna, whilst I appreciate your concern for the lack of use of more sophisticated vocabulary within these forums, perhaps it would be more appropriate to use clearer, concise vocabulary instead, lest your words be mistaken for what they truly mean.

[SausasaurusRex]

By acknowledging it yourself, don’t you completely negate your own argument anyway? For example:

Last game, I made some stupid decisions.
Last game, I was scum.
Therefore, I make stupid decisions when I’m scum.
I haven’t made stupid decisions this game.
Therefore, I am not scum.

I realise this is similar to Jocus’ post, but I’m just trying to make the point that it doesn’t really work as an argument. You could have specifically engaged more in this game just to play against your one-game “meta”.

[SausasaurusRex]

Sorry for not posting much guys. I’m in a different time zone to most of you, so I’m asleep while most of the discussion happens. I’ve been reading through the thread, and have come to the conclusion Jake is scum (and possibly Yimmy too), for the following reasons:

Jake was defended by Yimmy for seemingly no reason, despite Yimmy having no reason to know he’s town. The only good reason they would have to defend each other is if they are both scumbuddies. However, Yimmy has produced good reads, whilst Jake has just made arguments that don’t reallly make sense. As a result of this:

VOTE: Jake the Wolfie

However, I would also be open to a moonchild vote. He hasn’t made any good arguments (I think), and does things that are bad for the town. However, I would understand this just being him not knowing what to do during his first game.

Apologies if I got anything wrong, I’m on mobile.

[SausasaurusRex]

Just realised -

This is L-1

[SausasaurusRex]

Ah, my apologies, I must have misread that.

[SausasaurusRex]

Just realised -

This is L-1

Too early for this in my opinion. We've essentially only pressured one person. Flipping him now, even if he is mafia, yields minimal information, and only about ONE wagon. By the end of Day One, we ideally want at least a few different wagons to analyze. We still have several days left in this day phase. The benefit of being able to review multiple VCAs with multiple wagons is that you can compare behavior across the board between players, giving you a much more well-rounded perspective on the game.

That’s a good point, I do want to pressure some more people before the day ends. I’ll begin with a

VOTE: moonchild

It may just have been not knowing how the game works, but I want to hear a little more from her before the day ends.

[SausasaurusRex]

Also, @especiallyTheLies, what did you mean by “phoning it in”?

[SausasaurusRex]

You must have misinterpreted my post. I didn’t mean to come across disinterested, this is my only game of mafia currently happening, and I really enjoy mafia. I just felt most of what I would say had already been said, and there was no point in repeating it.

[SausasaurusRex]

My reason voting Moonchild was to get her to try to speak a bit more. Her argument for voting Jake wasn’t great (“he’s been quite aggressive”), but goes on to describe Jocus’s aggressiveness as being “very vocal”, and making her think he is a PR. Even if we ignore that, simply saying someone is PR is detrimental to the town, unless you’re trying to lead scum away from killing you during the night, which I doubt Moonchild has the experience to think about doing.

Besides, I don’t expect the vote to really go anywhere, I just want some explanations for this behaviour.

[SausasaurusRex]

I do care. It’s just hard to interact with people when I sleep whilst they’re awake. It’s not my fault. The discussion last night happened at 3am for me. Therefore, I placed a vote, in the hope she will explain whilst I sleep. I do have suspicions. Currently, my suspicions are on Jake, Yimmy, and Moonchild, which, you’ll note, are the ones I voted for. (Apart from Yimmy, but I can only have one vote at a time). I don’t understand what makes you think I don’t care.

[SausasaurusRex]

With Jake, I had expected an outburst at L-2 this early, but he doesn’t do anything intelligent. He just complains, and fails to make a single valid argument why he is town. This makes me suspect he’s scum, because he must surely have

something

he could say, even if it’s not very good. Just anything more than conplaints.

I don’t think loserdudeOG has “stoked fires”. He’s made a few statements, but really hasn’t said anything outrageous, or tried to get people to lynch each other. The thing I do want to know about, though, is why he thinks Jocus is town, despite being aggressive. Jocus really hasn’t yet done anything that could prove he is town, and his aggressiveness doesn’t help. I don’t scumread him, I’m just unsure what to make of it. Of course, he was aggressive in my last game too, but I would’ve though he’d change his gameplay based on what people thought of him.

[SausasaurusRex]

@EspeciallyTheLies, I haven’t played with anyone except Jocus before.

PyroDerma hasn’t really done anything of note yet.

With Moonchild... yeah, I get what you’re saying. Her slip-ups are extreme, but she doesn’t seem to know what’s going on. Despite this, she says she has read other mafia games, but still doesn’t seem to know the basics. She also claims we’re “not getting anywhere”, despite having gone from having literally no information (a part from the two mafia) to having some early reads. It’s as if she hasn’t really been paying attention, but is also trying really hard to keep up. It’s all just a little off-putting. You’re probably right, but I’m going to leave my vote on her for now. I don’t expect her to get lynched, though.

P-edit: Jake, you’re supposed to say if you realise you put someone at L-1. I thought leaving you there (at least for a short time) would promote some discussion, but instantly removing it would just look like I was scum that got cold feet. Therefore, I left it for a short time, and you’ll notice it provoked some discussion - I.e. especiallyTheLies.

[SausasaurusRex]

What makes you think Jocus would be able to make an entire bandwagon based on someone asking why? People would see the scuminess of a player who can provide no good explanation for their lynching of another player, and, in so doing, eliminate a mafia. There is no way people would vote someone simply for asking why.

[SausasaurusRex]

Exactly the point I was making. Why would anyone do it? It would be stupid.

[SausasaurusRex]

What makes you think Jocus would be able to make an entire bandwagon based on someone asking why? People would see the scuminess of a player who can provide no good explanation for their lynching of another player, and, in so doing, eliminate a mafia. There is no way people would vote someone simply for asking why.

I mean, if he's able to lead a lynch on me for evidence that he doesn't have, and he admits to not having, he can do pretty much anything.

I don’t see where he has said he doesn’t have evidence. It seems to me like he provides good reasoning for his votes. However, I have to go to sleep now, and so will be unable to respond until I wake up. If anyone has any questions they would like to ask me, just put an @SausasaurusRex (or @Rex if you’re lazy) and I will endeavour to answer them all when I wake up.

[SausasaurusRex]

Sauce: On one hand, his feelings about Jakes are very close to my own... Jake is full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. OTOH, in post 46, he said "they haven’t gotten anywhere close a lynch." Do townies call the town "they" or "we?" "We," right? That makes me worry about LDude, as perhaps they were playing roles but forgot to adjust pronouns? I think the slip is real. Scum.

Alternatively, “they” can be used to describe someone or a group of people who are not yourself. As I wasn’t currently voting Jake, I wouldn’t have referred to people on the bandwagon as “we”, because I was not a member of that group. We (townies) can refer to each other as we, but we can also subdivide into different groups to make our points more clear.

It just wouldn’t have made sense for me to say “we” in this scenario, as I’m clearly referring to some specific people.

[SausasaurusRex]

@Jake, what was it that made you scumread me?

[SausasaurusRex]

You guys have me convinced. For reasons I need not repeat, Jocus is scum. As a result of this,

VOTE: Jocus Aevorum

I'm also convinced about Moonchild just being inexperienced, but I will be keeping an eye on her.

[SausasaurusRex]

@Jake, what was it that made you scumread me?

@Jake, how come you just completely ignored me?

[SausasaurusRex]

Not masses have happened since I last posted, but I want to draw attention to Jocus’ statement:

“Not a good idea to keep me in LYLO. Don’t waste a cop inspect on me, which invites a plausible CC”

I don’t know what a CC is, so I’m going to ignore the second part of this statement.

However, I don’t like the first. It’s like he’s asking to be killed, but I can’t understand why. I don’t see any situation, town or mafia, in which it is useful to be killed, unless you’re protecting another player. However, I doubt this is what Jocus is doing, as he seems to want the town to lynch him, not a nightkill.

He’s also pointed out inconsistencies in his own writing before, and I don’t like this at all. I’m already voting Jocus, so there’s no point changing it, but I just wanted to point out this statement.

[SausasaurusRex]

@RadiantCowbells what took me off of your townbloc?

[SausasaurusRex]

@RadiantCowbells, what did you expect me to say? “I’m glad RadiantCowbells made the right decision picking me as town”? I’m not going to question why you townread me if I’m town. I’m curious what made you change your mind.

[SausasaurusRex]

@RadiantCowbells, what happened to making a case?

[SausasaurusRex]

@Arkias can we get some reads from you? You’ve been here a while and haven’t contributed much.

[SausasaurusRex]

@Manalque, do you have any reads? Was Jocus right to think that Jake was scum? Is ETL lying about being the cop?

[SausasaurusRex]

@Menalque, it was because of Jocus’ deathtunneling. He hadn’t convinced me he wasn’t scum, so I never unvoted him. Until you convince me you’re not scum, my vote stays.

[SausasaurusRex]

Also his reactions to being voted, and reasons for his deathtunneing. I just thought I should make that clear.

[SausasaurusRex]

@Menalque, your explanation:

Jocus seems to begin voting on Jake for no clear reason. I don’t follow his reasoning in post #79 for voting Jake, and it seems a little strange to do this.
He does then make some good points in posts #158 and #67, in which he shows why Jake’s arguments don’t work. However, he then makes says things that makes very little sense (see #175, in which he accuses Jake of things he hasn’t done), and fails miserably at explaining why he would do that. (See #222)

He then makes strange comments, like “not a good idea to keep me in LyLo”. Why not? The only reason town wouldn’t want someone in LyLo is if they are mafia, because that makes it easy for town.

Jocus seems the prime scum target. He has never played scum before, so it makes sense he would do stupid things like these. In addition, nobody else currently seems more scummy.

That is why Jocus is scum, and why my vote won’t come off you until you convince me otherwise.

[SausasaurusRex]

What makes RC confirmed town? We haven’t had a claim from him yet. And I don’t think Menalque was confirmed yet either.

[SausasaurusRex]

@Menalque I don’t follow your reasoning. What does RC being alive have to do with your alignment?

[SausasaurusRex]

I’ll claim once Menalque explains his reasoning.

[SausasaurusRex]

I’m a vanilla townie.

But Menalque, I have to ask: is there any reason you can provide for why you are town that isn’t easily manipulatable meta.

[SausasaurusRex]

@RC yes?

[SausasaurusRex]

What do you want me to do?

[SausasaurusRex]

@Menalque, perhaps you’ve been pretty townie, but your predecessor definitely wasn’t. How do I know you’re not just better at playing scum than him?

[SausasaurusRex]

Perhaps Eth0s did carry me a little in my first game. But, as you’ll have noticed, he died in day 2 (perhaps day 3, I don’t remember). You will then notice that, after he died, I conducted mislynches, and killed all the right people, so that by day 4, it was LYLO. You’ll then notice, the other two players, Blatant Scum and Quantifiable Conundrum, literally just take a random guess who scum was. I would say that, by now, I am experienced scum, because I know what sort of thinks scum should be doing. Do you really think I’d fail to kill Dunstraal, eliminating the doctor, now I’m experienced?
Arkias just doesn’t make sense. If they’d killed Dunstraal, they would’ve eliminated the doctor, allowing them to kill ETL the second night, eliminating the cop. And then, it’d be day 3, and there’s still nobody with any information, because mafia would’ve made the logical choice.

I’m new to town, as this is my first town game, but I can certainly play scum.

[SausasaurusRex]

I do realise it, but it would’ve been safer to kill Dunstraal first. The mafia could roleblock ETL so he doesn’t get his night move, and kill Dunstraal to eliminate the doctor. That way, if Dunstraal was lying, at least the night kill wasn’t wasted. So I did realise it was possible, but it would’ve been safer, and a better idea, to attempt to kill the doctor first, in case Dunstraal was lying about being the doctor.

[SausasaurusRex]

and no, killing arkias is bad because if the roleblocker goes down today an investigation is going to happen and it only takes one correct townread in the remainder to solve.

Perhaps Eth0s did carry me a little in my first game. But, as you’ll have noticed, he died in day 2 (perhaps day 3, I don’t remember). You will then notice that, after he died, I conducted mislynches, and killed all the right people, so that by day 4, it was LYLO. You’ll then notice, the other two players, Blatant Scum and Quantifiable Conundrum, literally just take a random guess who scum was. I would say that, by now, I am experienced scum, because I know what sort of thinks scum should be doing. Do you really think I’d fail to kill Dunstraal, eliminating the doctor, now I’m experienced?
Arkias just doesn’t make sense. If they’d killed Dunstraal, they would’ve eliminated the doctor, allowing them to kill ETL the second night, eliminating the cop. And then, it’d be day 3, and there’s still nobody with any information, because mafia would’ve made the logical choice.

I’m new to town, as this is my first town game, but I can certainly play scum.

and no, killing arkias is bad because if the roleblocker goes down today an investigation is going to happen and it only takes one correct townread in the remainder to solve.

Where did I say killing Arkias was a good idea?

[SausasaurusRex]

if i ever post a certain word again my count for said word will be the same as a game where i was scum, ergo i will be confirmed as scum.

feel like sausaurus/jimmy have been rather quiet. hoping to see more from them.

Sorry, I’ve been a little busy.

I don’t follow your reasoning for the meta though. Was it a joke? It would be extreamly easy to just not say a word, so what about that confirms you as not scum?

[SausasaurusRex]

Which word was it?

[SausasaurusRex]

Which word was it?

Gullible.

You think I actually thought RC was scum because he made a joke? Even if I missed RC’s joke, I understood it after Menalque’s first post. Is it not just sometimes a little fun to play along with the joke? I knew RC wouldn’t actually think that that was a viable argument, and Menalque basically confirmed it was a joke.
So no, it was not “gullible” of me, it was playing along with the joke.

[SausasaurusRex]

i would still rather lynch sausa than st. jimmy but

Why exactly do you want to lynch me?

[SausasaurusRex]

My read on Yimmy:

Yimmy is, to begin a little strange. Despite having one of the lowest post counts, and posting extremely infrequently, he puts lots of information in each of his posts. I’ll begin from the very start.

22 through 44:

Yimmy says little here, only expressing that he thought Jocus overreacted. Neither scum nor town indicative.

130 :

He begins by clearing up some misconceptions about what he did. Not AI, it could be town making sure he doesn’t look scummy, or scum doing the very same. He then makes reads, all of which are easy to go back on, apart from Moonchild. It is then Arkias, Moonchild’s replacement, who is lynched. I’m not sure what to make of this. Would scum!yimmy nk Arkias if he “thought” he was scum? I don’t think so. Scum!Yimmy clearly thinks he can make a compelling enough case for it, otherwise he would’ve just said he thought she was null. Therefore, I think this is slightly town indicative, because I don’t see the scum version making sense.

Posts 132 and 134 have no alignment-indicative content.

181

Yimmy continues to push his case against Moonchild. Again, I don’t think scum!Yimmy would do this, as by this point Moonchild was almost universally townread, and scum!Yimmy could just kill her in the night. It would have been a better play for scum!Yimmy just to claim he’s been convinced she’s town, and move on, killing her in the night.


I will finish this in about 20 minutes, I’ve got something to do quickly.

[SausasaurusRex]

Continued:
241:

Here, Yimmy gets a little interesting. He says Moonchild’s reads seem sincere. A mafia’s reads are never sincere, so he’s basically saying he doesn’t think Moonchild is mafia anymore. However, why would Yimmy change stance on her so quickly? Was it the thing I said earlier about seeing she won’t be lynched anytime soon, so just changing his mind? Or did it truly convince him?

This is also the first time he mentions Dunstraal. This is, admittedly, an okay time to mention Dunstraal for the first time. Dunstraal had, at this point, posted only 4 times, with none of them producing much content. He then proceeds to vote Dunstraal, but I believe this was not an attempt to lynch him, but an attempt to get Dunstraal to post more. He even says he thought Jake and Jocus were most scummy.

This post was slightly scum-indicative, based mainly on the quick turnaround of read on Moonchild.

269:

I don’t like this post. He says he thinks either Jake or Jocus is scummy, but not both at the same time. He then proceeds to vote Jocus with no real justification for voting him over Jake. Jocus already had the most votes on him, so I wonder if Yimmy was just joining the bandwagon. Slightly scum-indicative.

301:

Just questions. This posts is not AI.

398:

Here he quickly establishes a read on LoserDude, and votes him. This is trying to establish a wagon, the very thing he tells RC not to do in the very same post. I think this is townish. Town!Yimmy wants scum to get lynched, so it makes sense that if town!yimmy thought Loser was scum, he would vote him. However, it doesn’t make sense for scum!Yimmy. Scum!Yimmy would want to lynch town, which means not voting people that probably won’t get lynched. Therefore, scum!Yimmy would have kept his vote on Jocus, the leading bandwagon.

468:

Mainly complaints and questions for players. Not AI. Town!Yimmy wants to check his information is right, and be able to provide better arguments by pointing out invalid scum logic. Scum!Yimmy wants to make other players look scummy. Therefore, it makes sense for both alignments to do this.

478 and 479:

He complains about RC. He implies RC is scummy, but never outright says it. He asks RC for a case on why RC is town.

544 and 545:

He begins by acknowledging that RC’s case makes sense. This is not AI. Town!Yimmy thinks RC made a compelling case, and changes his reads to fit. Scum!Yimmy realises that he’ll look scummy if he doesn’t at least acknowledge how RC’s case made sense. Therefore, they would both come to this conclusion.

He then says Jake is always clueless, and doesn’t retract his earlier statement about him being scummy. He asks him some questions. Yimmy also makes himself look town in this post, by using the phrase “a lil lost regarding the suspicion for me”. Again, this is, unfortunately, not AI. Town!Yimmy wants to point out Jake’s inconsistencies to lynch him, because he think’s he’s scum. Scum!Yimmy wants to point out Jake’s inconsistencies because he knows Jake will make an easy mislynch.

578:

Contains little content.

798:

He says the Menalque wagon was bad. He doesn’t say why he thinks Menalque is town, which is especially bad considering Jocus had been one of Yimmy’s top scumreads. This is a little scummy. Yimmy hadn’t provided a reason for why he thought Menalque was town but Jocus wasn’t. Therefore, we must assume he doesn’t have one. Town!Yimmy wouldn’t change stance on Menalque without a reason, because town should always be voting scum. Therefore, this post is scum indicative.

987:

He notes how RC’s late D1 behaviour was weird. This is a valid concern, but not AI. He continues to say Loser looks scummy. This isn’t AI, because town!Yimmy would keep voting who he thinks is scum and doesn’t have his other scumread because Jake was lynched. Scum!Yimmy still wants people to lynch LoserDude, so he stays on him, knowing it’ll look scummy if he suddenly changes.

[SausasaurusRex]

Unfortunately, looking through Yimmy’s iso in depth hasn’t provided much. Currently, I would read him as slight-town, due mainly to 398 and 181. Unfortunately, he is so full of non-AI posts that he is very hard to read. I apologise for this entire case not being very conclusive, but slight-town was the only conclusion I could come to. Nothing he writes is very scummy, but neither is it very townie. However it is slightly more townie than scummy, and I can see some scummy things just being bad town play. Therefore, I think Yimmy is slight-town.

[SausasaurusRex]

I just noticed I forgot to put this in my last post - I apologise for not looking at Yimmy’s last 3 posts. I have to go to sleep and I didn’t have time. Sorry about that.

[SausasaurusRex]

What does TMI stand for? It’s not on the list of common abbreviations.

[SausasaurusRex]

Did u notice both saus/Yimmy wanted to lynch Ldudeog

Actually no, I forgot this

(Both of you were on that train ftr)

Not even sure menalque is off that train?

Where did I say I wanted to lynch LoserDude? In this post (152), I specifically say I don’t think Loser is scum. I have never voted LoserDude. What possibly made you think I wanted to lynch him?

[SausasaurusRex]

EBWOP: I misread 152. I don’t specifically say he isn’t scum, but I

do

heavily imply it.

[SausasaurusRex]

VOTE: Yimmy

Hammered, I believe.

[SausasaurusRex]

You guys convinced me he was scum.

[SausasaurusRex]

Literally no one cased him in the slightest since you TR him btw

What I meant was guys being unconvinced by argument convinced me to have a reread. It’s probably quite clear I only looked at Yimmy’s ISO, and that was why I was wrong. I went back and read through what he said in context instead of by itself, which led me to the conclusion that he was scum.

ETL, who did you investigate in the night?

[SausasaurusRex]

I INVESTIGATED SAUS. HE IS MAFIA.

VOTE: saus

Liar.

[SausasaurusRex]

Don’t trust him.

[SausasaurusRex]

Technically he’s not confirmed. Nobody investigated

him

. All we have is his word and no cc. Therefore, it’s time for me to reveal that I was, in fact, the cop this entire time! I just, being a newbie, thought the mafia would kill me if I revealed! Since ETL isn’t dead, that means he was the mafia the entire time! Kill him!

[SausasaurusRex]

You need not bother. People will come around, and realise you’re the true enemy! Don’t bother faking things when everyone knows you’re the mafia, and is just waiting for RC to come and finish the game by voting you!

[SausasaurusRex]

Technically he’s not confirmed. Nobody investigated

him

. All we have is his word and no cc. Therefore, it’s time for me to reveal that I was, in fact, the cop this entire time! I just, being a newbie, thought the mafia would kill me if I revealed! Since ETL isn’t dead, that means he was the mafia the entire time! Kill him!

Oh wow it all makes sense now!

VOTE: ETL

I’m so glad people agree with me! He was just picking on me because I’m the only newbie left

VOTE: EspeciallyTheLies

[SausasaurusRex]

It all depends who RC votes now, I believe.

[SausasaurusRex]

I think Dunstraal and LoserDude will make the right decision, so we’ve won!

Go us!

[SausasaurusRex]

Thanks for running the game for us Thespio!