Mini Normal 2109 | Newbie Quotes II: Newb Boogaloo (Day 3)

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Hey guys

What’s shaking?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

kcda is probably town, ethos and sausasaurusurs might be town

What have the first two done that you feel are unlikely to come from scum?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

bad vote

Don't OMGUS. Why is it a bad vote?

haha oh yeah I'm big bad omgus man
also because its like... im at least trying to forward the game forward in the forward direction like
you hadn't done anything
and really why would me being a hypocrite in this situation make me scum

I don’t think you’ve been trying to forward the game at all. You voted for two lurkers in him and me in what I assume was a pretty dead game state early on. All that was doing was potentially setting yourself up to manipulate the game state more easily, and to frame the issue as being scum are lurking.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

19, 20, and 20 all vote vote SausasaurusRex. While this doesn't seem like us, to lynch someone is 7. Those 3 votes got to about 1/2 the lynching point. I don't trust those 3 people (rb, eth0s, & Dolly Parton (Dolly Python))

24 calls the wagon out. While I don't think it would've actually lynch SausasaurusRex, if Rex wasn't Mafia aligned (Since we don't have a FUCKEN ROLELIST) then I would definitely suspect any additional votes on the wagon. I wish we could've seen any additional votes, and decrease the PoE to a few people.

33 is weird. Why would Wake88 want to waste such a wondrous day? (Hey, that alliterated!) I think that this is a suspicious post here, and I'll pay attention to Wake88 more.

I'll just put it here, but Kcdaspot hasn't put much content up to 44. I hope to see content from you later.

Invisible votes me for inactivity, but doesn't seem to respond much to 46. Why?

Kcdaspot comes out with 52. No explanation, just "eth0s is town." This might be TMI, but so blatant and so..

something

... that it went mainly un-noticed.
Rex does notice it and responds in 54.
Kcdaspot replies in 57 with "Interaction with alim".
Then the subject is dropped. WTF? You don't explain what exactly with the interaction spewed them as town. That post is really weird. I don't like Kcdaspot here.

63 seems to be a light push against me for voting invisible. This seems like TMI, while WKIng Invisi.

69 says that my vote is bad because reasons that they don't explain. I repeat, they don't explain their reason. While it might be "I know I'm town, so it's a bad vote" that is LAMIST thinking.
72 is when he says that he's trying to forward the game. Is my vote not forwarding the game? Hm.

96 is a vote on me from eth0s. They didn't explain it, they just said that they liked the wagon.
99 is also a vote on me from Kcdaspot. At least they explained it.

101 This post is contradictory. "First, we have time. Second, we don't have time but we have analysis." Why not just use that analysis to.. analyze other players to find the scum instead of lynching a suspected scum? I don't understand your logic here.
116 is just a "We have time post." Well which is it?

122 seems like TMI.
123 is more TMI.
124 calls out the TMI bullshit that was 122&123
125 denies 124 calling out their bullshit.

Overall, my reads are:

Town

Jake
Alimdia
SausasaurusRex
rb (NULL)
Arkias
Lil Uzi Vert
Rabid Schnauzer (NULL)
Dolly Parton
Joey_
Wake88
Invisibility
Kcdaspot
eth0s

Scum

I do not like this post, not even because I'm the top SR, but the only thing he even had to say about me was just restating what I did. Also there's a ton of useless commentary on other things where he just states what happened without so much as an opinion. I think I'm actually cool with seeing this lynch through to completion.

I didn’t even read it. I can’t be fucked going back and forth.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

we lynch dolly on day2

How about right now?

VOTE: Dolly Parton

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Why dolly?

Because rb thinks I'm trying to pocket him, the thing is I already have. He just can't admit it to himself.

In what world was any of your play there buddying?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Why dolly?

Because rb thinks I'm trying to pocket him, the thing is I already have. He just can't admit it to himself.

In what world was any of your play there buddying?

I sheeped his vote. I thought he would like it. Apparently, I was wrong.

That’s bull. You would’ve made more of an active effort if were trying to buddy him. Not just sarcastically sheep him.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VC 1.5

VOTE: probs because they are probably scum

Jake The Wolfie (3) -

Invisibility, Kcdaspot, eth0s

Invisibility (2) -

Dolly Parton, alimdia

Dolly Parton (1) -

SausasaurusRex

eth0s (1) -

Arkias

Arkias (1) -

Joey_

Kcdaspot (1) -

rb

Not Voting (4) -

Lil Uzi Vert, tris, Wake88, Jake The Wolfie

With

13

alive, it takes

7

to hammer.
Day 1 ends in

(expired on 2019-12-17 11:00:00)

Game Notes

-

@Mod: I’m voting for Dolly Parton.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

at this point i can't read saus apart from "i am hugely worried about how i'm perceived" but they seem to think that's what the game is actually about for both alignments

don't know how to interpret it

saus has been giving me vibes of open wolfing troll veteran or a genuine new player who flipped town but is being extremely self-conscious (trait I historically associate much more w/ scum than town)

It would make sense for you to perceive it as scum. If you look back at my previous games, you’ll see I’ve only ever played scum before, never town, so I apologise if my priorities are slightly wrong.

alright, so does anyone in this game jump out as you as being likely scummy or towny saus?

I think Jake the Wolfie is town. I know some people disagree, but he’s playing very similar to the last game I had with him when he was town. I know meta arguments aren’t great, but I think if you’ll look at newbie game 1966 you’ll see what I mean.

I don’t like the look of Dolly. Even if the mason claim was a joke, it wasn’t a good one, and only served to make people suspicious of her. Not a good play for scum or town. This alone isn’t good enough for a lynch in further consideration, however. UNVOTE: Dolly Parton

Kcdaspot isn’t great either. He frequently says things without justifying them (see 146, 52 (which is followed by the vague 57) and 290 (why exactly is it null? Can we have an explanation?) for examples). However, this isn’t scum-indicative by itself.

I think Invisible’s slip is worth following through. Invisible also doesn’t seem to try to make himself look townish to other players either. He mocks Kcdaspot’s style of writing in 123. However, like Kcdaspot (and Dolly), he fails to provide reasoning for some of his posts.

I think that currently, the best thing to do is to follow through with Invisible’s slip and lynch him, though this could change later depending on what happens.

VOTE: Invisible

Like, this is the perfect exemple to show my point in my last post. Its an overly justifying and posturizing post with no actual content where he sheeps a read he doesn't have. Saus even takes the time to explain a read on 3-4 slots, yet the most important part of his post should've been where he places his vote. All he does about that is claim that the slip is "worth following through" and that Inv is basically is not playing in an agreeable way

Saus, can you explain me the slip you are read to lynch someone for?

Firstly, I would like to say that nothing is ever “over-justifiable”. An argument for why you think something is always better than not having one. To say mafia, a game about convincing people to lynch scum, can have opportunities to over-justify, is to say that mafia is a game about guessing, rather than logic. If an argument can be expressed logically, an intelligent person will agree. By not justifying an argument, you give no reason for anyone to agree. Therefore, it is always better to explain an argument.

In answer to your question, I would say it is simply because of the slip. Nobody else appears more scummy than that slip to me, and since you should vote who you think is most scummy (unless you have ulterior motives) I voted him.
In addition, my vote is not just a vote, but a statement. It tells Invisible that there are people who suspect him, which is good for neither town or mafia.

By voting him, I ensure that he will provide a reason for why he is town.

We can then judge his reason to see if it makes sense or not, and then work from there. If he has a good reason, or someone else is seeming more scummy, my vote will change. However, his reason may contradict his earlier statements, or be a scumtell or a slip, which can prove that he is scum, or at least worthy of a D1 lynch.
This is why I voted Invisible, and will continue to do so until he changes my opinion or someone else seems more scummy.

How are you so sure that you can ensure this? What if he refuses to cooperate or self-votes like Jake did?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Wake88 and Lil Uzi Vert:

How do you feel about alimdia, RB, tris, kcda, and each other?

The only player I have a good amount of experience with is rb. His play here feels like his town game. The others haven’t made much of an impression on me yet.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Mod: v/LA till Sunday.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Wake88 and Lil Uzi Vert:

How do you feel about alimdia, RB, tris, kcda, and each other?

The only player I have a good amount of experience with is rb. His play here feels like his town game. The others haven’t made much of an impression on me yet.

I get that you're generally lurky and don't really case things but I truly don't see how you have nothing to say about anyone but rb

I just didn’t.

I barely recall Alimdia being the first one to claim Invisibility slipped. I find it interesting that when I initially read the claim, I thought it was sarcasm. While rereading his ISO, I see that he voted for him 171. It reads like he wasn’t going to pursue this train of thought but saw an opportunity to when a much stronger and vocal player did in rb. Not sure what to make of it, but it’s something I want to make note of.

Other then the slip, there isn’t much that sticks out to me. I think the opportunism stuff he pointed out early on was overblown.

Tris is just there for me. Yes they’re poking and look like they’re making attempts to figure out the game but it just doesn’t translate into anything alignment indicative in my opinion. The one thing I did like from her was 355 and 361 because it mirrored my thoughts exactly at the time.

I thought Billy Pilgrim’s predecessor was Saudade for some reason but I quickly realized that didn’t make sense due to his join date. I like how charismatic and loud he was and I think I’m going to say that is coming from town here more than scum.

Wake had hardly posted so I didn’t have any thoughts on him. I’ve seen a few players detest Day 1 and be pushed for it by town. Wouldn’t surprise me if scum were pushing him this game though.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Lil Uzi Vert OK, I do not like 264, because you are way too quick to join the wagon: I want to know why you are voting Dolly. I can agree with 450. I need to hear more from you, Uzi.

I didn’t like the justification for her votes early on. They felt like attempts to provoke and cast the player in a negative light in order to generate fuel for a push. Almost bloodthirsty if you will.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

The table can’t understand when I explain stuff so i diubt theyd understand if I explained my wake read, so ill leave it at that

So you were essentially parking your vote here?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I am probably flipping rb at some point too with how hes been playing

This comes off even more strange now than it probably did initially. Can you talk about your experience with rb?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

BTW whoever killed rb/ethos pretty much killed half of the active posters which makes this game not as fun

Yeah I’m gonna miss rb

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Why is Billy scum?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Adorable, why do you think scum are less likely to want to meta dive? I think scum have the same amount of incentive to as town because it can greatly increase their chances of successfully manipulating certain players and identifying particularly strong town players.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I am probably flipping rb at some point too with how hes been playing

This comes off even more strange now than it probably did initially. Can you talk about your experience with rb?

My experience is pretty limited. We played one game as scum together a few years ago. I think I read one or two of his t games while trying to replace in one his game a while ago but never actually replaced in. One old time friend of mine (Transcend) who I respect a lot as a player told me rb was very decent and an overall great player.

Thats about it. When i know someone should be above average, I expect above average reads

I think it’s quite clear that some players reads trend towards well above average when they’re allowed any room to maneuver and build their ways the way they go about it. We simply didn’t see enough from rb or had enough information to determine the strength of his reads at the time and you feeling his weren’t up to par looks like you have information that the rest of us aren’t privy too.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I am probably flipping rb at some point too with how hes been playing

This comes off even more strange now than it probably did initially. Can you talk about your experience with rb?

My experience is pretty limited. We played one game as scum together a few years ago. I think I read one or two of his t games while trying to replace in one his game a while ago but never actually replaced in. One old time friend of mine (Transcend) who I respect a lot as a player told me rb was very decent and an overall great player.

Thats about it. When i know someone should be above average, I expect above average reads

I think it’s quite clear that some players reads trend towards well above average when they’re allowed any room to maneuver and build their ways the way they go about it. We simply didn’t see enough from rb or had enough information to determine the strength of his reads at the time and you feeling his weren’t up to par looks like you have information that the rest of us aren’t privy too.

or the simpler explanation is that we had different reads, which shouldn't happens if both of us are town

No.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

So why is Wake being voted again? I just kinda skimmed over the game.

I honestly have no idea other than him hammering Dolly.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I am currently rereading and so far

I have Sauce as town
Inv/Jake as very likely town

Wake as hard scum

Rest is still up to be read but i expect that i will townread Alim/ark/ofz, leaving billy/LUV. I dont really think billy is mefia but could be, will reread to confirm

Also, everyone should notice that Wake and LUV have been the biggest wagons, yet someone those wagons never went over 3 votes and after many days. Also, the wagon constitution of both are in the slots i trust the most, namely alim/ofhz and in a lesser extent, inv

Wagons stalling is NAI. All they tell you is that scum are already on the wagon and said person who is wagoned is town, scum are on the wagon and are willing to bus said person who is being wagoned, or the person is not willing to fighting back because he or she believes the wagon will lose traction.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

So why is Wake being voted again? I just kinda skimmed over the game.

I honestly have no idea other than him hammering Dolly.

Obviously you haven’t been reading the game

If it’s about him stating he didn’t see who flipped and not caring either, then that’s pretty laughable.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

So why is Wake being voted again? I just kinda skimmed over the game.

I honestly have no idea other than him hammering Dolly.

Obviously you haven’t been reading the game

If it’s about him stating he didn’t see who flipped and not caring either, then that’s pretty laughable.

Hey, you have been reading! But did you read correctly ? The point I did bring is much beyond just not seeing the names and IMO is AI. Now feel free to explain to me why the rationale is incorrect and I will genuinely read you and try to consider your point.

Thats also one of the 2 points I outed against wake, the first one was D1 and ans was about the incoherence in his stated intentions and actual posting, which is also AI. Again, feel free to read up and counter argue

That being said, it is the only case ATM on the table that goes beyond disagreeing on content and bad tone.
-ofrz thinks billy is mefia for tone and disliked his agressive content. That case has merits but is not universally relatable especially by people who can’t read
-inv thinks jiggly is mefia; idk even why but irrc its def an OMGUs kind of read

I dont think anyone is pushing anyone else atm.

Me on wake;
-D1 incoherence, explained in length d1
-D1 hammer was sketchy, could easily come from mefia
-D2 defensiveness and his narrative when I asked ethos about his d1 pre-twilight post
-D2 him seeing two kills but not looking at the name, explained in length

@LUV there is still 3 mefias on the table and I haven’t seen you do anything else than trying to very badly spin my words and shading me. Even if I was mefia, then who are the others?

Do you even have any trs? Read your iso, you havent done jack shit

It’s not uncommon these days for people to tend to skip large chunks of text when reading. I have friends who read super fast, but skim so much, and don't even realize their skimming a lot. But then someone asks them what was on the previous page, and though they just read it, they don't remember it.

You find it weird that he noticed a second kill without knowing who was killed. You argue him not noticing means he’s satisfied with limited information. All of this is fair until motivation comes into play. Where’s the scum agenda?

The optimal play for scum is to not mention that their might be a vigilante because it can lead to the shots being decided by town, rather than the vigilante deciding unilaterally. The former is a big advantage for town, because you’re essentially getting all the advantages of a lynch with pretty much no risk. Also if the vigilante themselves is the player who would be killed, they have no need to claim; so long as it's sufficiently established that they are town, they can kill someone else, dodging the scum kill in the process, and getting off one last shot the next day.

As for your point referencing his Day 1 play, why does incoherence make him scum? Town can absolutely be inconsistent, illogical, or unclear. I’d argue more often than scum. Scum tend to aim for consistency. They'll often try beyond what's natural to nail that feeling of it being consistent. They put in the effort, make it deliberately overall the same pattern. And in doing so, it becomes somewhat artificial. Town, however, will just keep themselves spewing out what they please. And in doing so, they'll keep themselves rather consistent, simply because they're town; they're being honest, and speaking their truthful opinion. And because there is no lie involved, because it's natural, instead of artificial, they are less likely overall to slip up. Sure, they'll have contradictions, but their contradictions will mostly seem natural, honest mistakes which can be made simply from not thinking. Scum, however, when making their contradictions, will read more like a slip, something which slipped through the cracks in their web of lies. Not from not thinking, simply from not thinking enough.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I have a feeling you’re scum but I can’t quite articulate why.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I keep having this nagging feeling that you’re trying to speed the game up to avoid town noticing why you haven’t been night killed.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I don’t like that Wake is posting elsewhere right now though so I think I’ll have to compromise.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Wake88

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Ready to claim.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VT.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

At first glance, I’m most suspect of Alimdia and Invisibility’s claims.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Invisibility