Newbie 1971 [Game Over!]

[Kanna]

Hi all! Sorry for coming in late

[Kanna]

I’m a little confused but I think I like skitter.

[Kanna]

VOTE: Mena

good day to all)

I don't like this post, Menalque had already posted yet the vote is made without any engagement + greeting the thread felt awkward

VOTE: Non Imh

Was this a joke or was it serious?

[Kanna]

Why would you think it's not serious, especially given the rest of the content that slot has produced so far?

That’s true. I just wanted to confirm because I didn’t want to misunderstand.

If it is, then I definitely agree the push was unfair. I didn’t see anything wrong with the entry.

[Kanna]

@GuiltyLion #72 Honestly, I have no idea - I don’t think the entry says anything. Why is it likely to come from scum?

[Kanna]

I’m unsure how to feel about GL. His responses seem kind of townie but they’re a bit over the top.

[Kanna]

@GuiltyLion #72 Honestly, I have no idea - I don’t think the entry says anything. Why is it likely to come from scum?

hey! how much mafia experience do you have?

Not much. I know the concepts and have watched other people play but I’ve only played once or twice myself.

[Kanna]

I'm sorry I haven't said anything meaningful, it's not on purpose. At this point, I just really don't know who is most likely to be scum.

[Kanna]

Why do you think that's more likely than newbtown who isnt sure how to interact/engage with the game?

I can elaborate on it if needed, but I feel like town would at least cast a vote.

Alright, please elaborate.

[Kanna]

I'm sorry I haven't said anything meaningful, it's not on purpose. At this point, I just really don't know who is most likely to be scum.

Ok do you have any suspicions of anyone yet? Or is there anyone you're liking so far? It's ok if you're not sure of the read or if its only a gut feeling

I'm suspicious of almost everyone actually. Many people in this game are well guarded in a way that I have trouble trusting.

I think my top town leans are you (because you have been the most fair so far + I agree with your logic the most) and GL (because even though I don’t agree with that push, I feel like he’s being genuine)

[Kanna]

Maybe slight townlean on GBJ too.

[Kanna]

So ideally then you'd want to put your vote on someone to at least attempt to generate discussion about that slot.

I think you're being a little vague and that might indicate that you're not taking scumhunting all that seriously.

I don’t agree I’ve been vague. I’ve tried my best to express what I’m thinking and I can't be any more "certain" because I'm not sure.

[Kanna]

VOTE: Kanna

Can I ask why you’re voting for me? Is it because you think I'm not being helpful or do you think I'm scum?

[Kanna]

I'm sorry I haven't said anything meaningful, it's not on purpose. At this point, I just really don't know who is most likely to be scum.

Okay sure. I can see that being the case if town.

Alright, please elaborate.

So the reason why I said that you were "probably scum" is because of the lack of any reaction to my kind of out there vote. As for why I scumread you? I just wanted to see your reaction to it.

Sorry, miswording on my part but what I wanted you to elaborate on was "why town would at least cast a vote."

To respond, I thought your vote was a joke. Why would I react? And ok? So do you scumread me or not? What?

[Kanna]

That actually reminds me of my newbie scum buddy in Newb 1963 that initially didnt want to cast their vote

Not saying it's necessarily the same thing here buuuuuut its definitely possible

So ideally then you'd want to put your vote on someone to at least attempt to generate discussion about that slot.

I think you're being a little vague and that might indicate that you're not taking scumhunting all that seriously.

Also from what I know, it's easier for scum to TL than it is for them to SL, as they know who's innocent and who isn't, hence they have to put more effort in / sometimes "reach" to show that they're scumhunting.

Hmm I feel like you're shading me in bad faith. VOTE: Uncrowned

[Kanna]

I'm not saying your not justified to think I'm scum - I understand I haven't been very helpful. I also can't prove it, but I am trying my best.

The reason I voted you is because of those posts in particular.

I

think you're shading me.

[Kanna]

I think I scumread Map Wolf a little. It's a bit of a gut feeling at this point but I will try to elaborate later.

[Kanna]

I'm sorry I haven't said anything meaningful, it's not on purpose. At this point, I just really don't know who is most likely to be scum.

Okay sure. I can see that being the case if town.

Alright, please elaborate.

So the reason why I said that you were "probably scum" is because of the lack of any reaction to my kind of out there vote. As for why I scumread you? I just wanted to see your reaction to it.

To respond, I thought your vote was a joke. Why would I react? And ok? So do you scumread me or not? What?

I don't know if I would expect you to react. Do I scumread you? No.

So the reason why I said that you were "probably scum" is because of the lack of any reaction to my kind of out there vote.

I dont really think the lack of reaction is ai

I was more hoping for some kind of potential scumslip.

These are the posts which sorta...rub me the wrong way?

For #121, I have trouble believing that initial vote and push on me was just a test - it felt like an actual push and then MW backpeddled when I didn't look as scummy as they hoped.

#122; This still confuses me. Again MW, do you scumread me or not? This post and your vote say two different things. It kinda looks like you want to push me but can't find a reason to. Hence the vote is still on me but there is no reasoning.

#138; MW hoping I scumslip...ok

[Kanna]

Again, I've asked her to show where I'm misrepping.

If she can't put the effort to defend herself in, why would you do it for her? You're cutting off our avenues of finding scum by relieving pressure atm.

You do you I guess

I did defend myself by pointing out how I thought you were being unfair/shading me and you turned around and said I was threatened so?? I really didn’t think we were on an even playing field so it was unnecessary for me to go further.

[Kanna]

I have a feeling Uncrowned wanted me to get emotional there and full on defend myself then call me scummy for being defensive. His aggression and shade were bait.

[Kanna]

@192; I think I caught something there but I will have to reread and quote some posts for evidence. Basically, I now really don’t buy the voting me then saying I was scummy was a reaction test. I don’t find it very natural + I think this post contradicts something earlier. Really looks like MW backing off of me because I’m not such an easy push anymore.

[Kanna]

Hmmm... @Uncrowned, what is your opinion on Map Wolf?
@Map Wolf, what is your opinion on Uncrowned?

[Kanna]

Catching up right now

[Kanna]

Again, I've asked her to show where I'm misrepping.

If she can't put the effort to defend herself in, why would you do it for her? You're cutting off our avenues of finding scum by relieving pressure atm.

You do you I guess

I did defend myself by pointing out how I thought you were being unfair/shading me and you turned around and said I was threatened so?? I really didn’t think we were on an even playing field so it was unnecessary for me to go further.

I asked for specific instances of where I supposedly misrepresented you. You just saying it's unfair isn't really telling me anything.

Your reaction was eh and I'm not really worried about your slot atm. More interested in Skit. Feels like she's trying to go out of her way to defend ppl when it's not necessary and shuts down dialogue between other slots. Almost like trying to get some cred from the people she's defending. Would be a very smart move as scum to try and do that.

Haven't really looked into Map Wolf much yet but I do recall getting some opportunistic vibes from them.

What do you mean by opportunistic vibes? Why haven't you looked into them if you got opportunistic vibes?

[Kanna]

Billy is really confusing me. Will have to go back to him later.

[Kanna]

This is weird. These posts are almost right next to each other.

Hmmm... @Uncrowned, what is your opinion on Map Wolf?
@Map Wolf, what is your opinion on Uncrowned?

Null. His vote on you is either opportunistic or just town wanting something to actually happen.

this isn't a read. I want you to make a choice here which you think is more likely.

Town is more likely.

VOTE: skitter30

To be honest, there's a chance that scum is Uncrowned and Skitter.

Seriously, what do you think about Uncrowned?? Also hmmmm so do you scumread skitter?

[Kanna]

Actually #224 confuses me. Please explain why you think that.

[Kanna]

But it was minor stuff like prodding to see if anyone would go with a GL lynch. Believe it was on page 2 or 3

Do you mean this?

If GL's play is going to be similar to Rivers, then I wouldn't mind lynching him day one, lol.

^Nothing personal, but let's find scum early on.

Honestly wasn't sure what this was trying to say the first time I read it. The take that this is "prodding to see if anyone would go with a GL lynch" is interesting. If so, then I think that's less opportunistic and more scummy?

MW, can you also explain this?

[Kanna]

In Newbie 1965, we ended up mislynching GL day 2 with him insisting on what would have also been a mislynch. So I was actually joking there, since lynching someone based solely off of a previous game doesn't really make sense.

to be faaaaair, the day

started

with me insisting even harder on what would have been a scum lynch, and then I pivoted only when the scum partner convinced all of us that the scum I was pushing was actually the PR (while the real PR said nothing because she was scumreading me the whole game)

I think it's as I thought that these posts are (mostly) irrelevant banter.

However...it is kind of a weird joke because Guilty was town in that game. Wouldn't it be more natural to joke about lynching him if he were scum? I don't get this joke.

[Kanna]

If you can't see what I've been doing this game I'm gonna be disappointed, to say the least.

There's slots here who need a lot more focus than me.

Like who? ~for some reason~ I don't think you'll say Map Wolf.

[Kanna]

Mapwolf why are you thinking me/uncrowned?

If Map Wolf can answer this and give a

proper

opinion on Uncrowned, that would be great.

[Kanna]

@298; Call me sceptical, but I have trouble believing in "reaction tests". Like who's to say it's not just a cop out for scummy behaviour?

For this case, consider; I said I was new to mafia early on and believe this was before your push/test/whatever on me. You knew I was new. Being new, don't you think there was a relatively high chance I would "break" if you attacked me? And if I did, would you (as town) be fully ok with lynching me when my mess up could just be because I was inexperienced? I'm honestly less convinced it was a reaction test and more so it was a trap. Also, would me not breaking really even tell you I'm town?

[Kanna]

Also just to clarify; so Uncrowned, you are admitting that you were being very unfair to me in that push right?

[Kanna]

@Non Imh; ??????

[Kanna]

Mapwolf why are you thinking me/uncrowned?

Mostly thought the idea of you bussing uncrowned could kind of make sense.

Is more coming? Because I am not satisfied.

[Kanna]

Well, yeah. If you messed up, I would've been fine with taking my chances and trying to lynch you.

It's not a matter of who is DEFINITELY scum because almost always there'll be a good chance you're wrong. To me it's about finding who is most likely to be scum and go with them, and live with the results.

I'm no expert, if I'm wrong I'm wrong. Your reactions to me appeared to be how a new townie would react. It's not 100% but it's what I'm thinking atm.

And yeah, you can call my earlier push unfair. It was desgined to be that way.

Ok I'm glad we established that for my own sanity. I don't know if I agree with that form of scum hunting though (if it is hmmm). The rate of error seems far too high.

About my reaction; was I even townie in that reaction? Are you sure you didn't just back off because everyone defended me and it was hard for you to keep going?

See, I personally didn't feel like I was especially townie there; my response was to engage as little as possible because I could tell you were being unfair. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think people were on my side because you were scummy more so than I was townie.

Tell me how I was "townie".

[Kanna]

I would be fine with a Map Wolf lynch too. I really do want either Uncrowned or Map today though. Mixed feelings about Billy, but I think he's a topic for another day.

Good night guys!

[Kanna]

Sorry, been busy and haven't totally caught up. Will do so tonight when I get home.

I still want Uncrowned/Map Wolf lunches unless something drastic happened in these last few pages.

[Kanna]

I've only had a quick readthrough but this GBJ wagon is super fishy.

[Kanna]

Expand on why you think that

1) the speed was insane
2) Mena didn't even explain why GBJ was his highest scumread but 2 people sheeped him
3) This isn't really a point but I don't agree about GBJ and I'll explain later

[Kanna]

^Ok, that was fair, I'll give you that. But seriously why GBJ? Imo, they haven't really been scummy, and I think their tone is pretty townie.

I can't help but think this is a last minute mislynch for scum.

[Kanna]

I think I want to go this way VOTE: Map Wolf

Right now, Map fits into too many of my possible scumpairs and I SR them pretty hard individually too. If anyone wants me to make a case on them, I can.

[Kanna]

I think scum is in Map/Non/Mena/Uncrowned. Also with the existence of that sudden wagon, I think GBJ is likely town.

[Kanna]

im on for a few minutes

if yall think im susp because i put billy as seems town instead of town thats bad

i was going to originally have more reasoning in there but decided not to because i hadnt read isos yet

I agree with this + Skitter but the fact Mena and Map strongly suggested this put a bad taste in my mouth. Who are you trying to trick? I highly highly highly doubt that's a thing.

[Kanna]

I think I want to go this way VOTE: Map Wolf

Right now, Map fits into too many of my possible scumpairs and I SR them pretty hard individually too.

If anyone wants me to make a case on them, I can

.

Yes

Ok I will tonight. Will be inactive for the rest of today because work.

[Kanna]

@Map, they're playing dirty and I'm petty af
(assuming I'm right about everything)

VOTE: Kanna

I actually love this theory - like, I almost wish I was scum so I could take the credit. Unfortunately, it's wrong.

Anyways, Non is probably town. So is GBJ. Agree with Billy's #578.

Map Wolf case coming soon.

[Kanna]

@Map Wolf Case

- Map Wolf has been coasting the entire game
- Map Wolf, what do you really think? And why?? Tell me why you aren't making this stuff up

Spoiler:

I was kind of considering that, but I didn't do it as I feel it'd be easier to lynch him on d2 or d3 if he was scum.

I dont understand.

Why do u think it would be easier to lynch gl later and why does it preclude you from voting him today when yoh suspect him

It doesn't really preclude me from voting him. It's more that I sort of liked to assume that he wasn't scum, even though he clearly could be.

Mapwolf why are you thinking me/uncrowned?

Mostly thought the idea of you bussing uncrowned could kind of make sense.

Is more coming? Because I am not satisfied.

I was suggesting that it could be the case, although I am more inclined to say that skitter likely isn't scum.

Hmmm... @Uncrowned, what is your opinion on Map Wolf?
@Map Wolf, what is your opinion on Uncrowned?

Null. His vote on you is either opportunistic or just town wanting something to actually happen.

this isn't a read. I want you to make a choice here which you think is more likely.

Town is more likely.

- Votes are opportunistic + have weak reasoning

Spoiler:

VOTE: skitter30

To be honest, there's a chance that scum is Uncrowned and Skitter.

(There was almost a wagon on Skitter at the time so this was almost adding fuel to it)

VOTE: Map Wolf

I like this better than Billy and a fair number of people have been suspecting him but not voting him, which makes me think it's a good vote for the gamestate. I also think it's suspect that he gave Kanna a hard time for not voting but hasn't voted anywhere himself since unvoting her a few days ago.

Okay this vote is super opportunistic and your views on me are misleading in my view. I can see a vote for pressure being useful, but at what reason? For giving Kanna a hard time? I didn't give her a hard time, I just wanted to put pressure on her so that something actually happened in the game. If I was scum, I wouldn't even bother create a happening. As for why I haven't voted anyone? I didn't vote Uncrowned as I think he's likely to be town. I considered voting Non Imh, but didn't as I wanted to give the slot a chance.

VOTE: Billy Pilgrim as I think it is likely TvS between him and Uncrowned.

(Billy was a wagon at the time)

I also see his play as similar to 1965.
-
I kind of feel like Non Imh would be an acceptable lynch. However, what I don't like is that the people voting them are people that might be scum... Makes me feel like scum might try to push them in order to get the easiest mislynch.

VOTE: Gbj

(Fishy GBJ wagon)

I will vote Non Imh if I need to, but I really don't think he is town, and so will stay on someone else for as long as possible. I feel that at least some people voting him are looking for a mislynch. I think it is

highly

likely that one of GayBabyJailor & Billy Pilgrim are scum. (Unless Non Imh is scum)

Not sure on this but from my understanding, you find the Non Imh wagon suspicious and you are quite sure Non will flip town but you still want the lynch to go through?

Don't trust the wagon because I don't trust you and GBJ. I sympathise more with the Menalque, since these posts form Non Imh have been atrocious and have not at all helped contribute to the gamestate.

Another option, to be fair, is to lynch Non Imh. If it is a mislynch, which I think it would be, then we can go for BP and GBJ. But I will place my vote on whoever I think is most likely scum.

Comes across as planning future (mis)lynches. Especially since I'm pretty sure GBJ and Non are town at this point. And the last line contradicts the last post entirely if you don't think Non will flip scum.

- This post

Spoiler:

hey im finally online

billy: seems town
guilty: town
kanna: town
mapwolf:town
skitter: null
uncrowned: mixed
mena: mixed
non imh: scum

Like imagine if scumteam is Gbj/Billy. "Seems town" could in theory be a really bad scumslip in that case. Why the "seems" town? Why not just "town" or mixed/null like the other reads on this list? What if this is just "I can't justify townreading this guy, but I still want to try and defend him somehow".

I might be reading too much into this though, but still... This post is just kind of weird if town.

Spreading suspicion. "Imagine if X...oh nevermind." (This is kind of a different topic but I find insinuating GBJ/Billy was a team based on the fact GBJ wrote "seems town" for Billy incredibly unreasonable. Being serious and trying to push that sends red flags for me.)

[Kanna]

I'm here and I don't like either of these lynches. I feel like scum are parking their votes to lock us into this selection.

[Kanna]

Can we pile on Map please?

[Kanna]

I'll be around too and will change my vote if necessary. Map is still my choice for now.

[Kanna]

From my POV, I think Map/Mena/Unc are the parkers that are locking us in right now. I'm about to go out soon so I think I'll vote Non if nothing changes by the time I go out.

[Kanna]

Oh got ninja'd

[Kanna]

I'm honestly confused why GBJ is at the bottom of everyone's lists.

[Kanna]

Tone feels townie, did not vote his counterwagon and the fact that his wagon picked up speed really fast suggests to me he was targeted by scum. Like, I don't see a wagon like that forming on scum.

[Kanna]

Also, IMO, I get the feeling that he's just busy irl, not necessarily not game solving.

[Kanna]

Like I said before, I've only played once or twice but I've watched games before.

[Kanna]

I'm about to go soon and won't be around for a while. I don't know what I'm supposed to do with my vote since it looks like Map isn't happening - let me know in ~5mins anyone?

[Kanna]

^ should I wait for this?

[Kanna]

Actually Billy isn't voting GBJ so can hammer. I really need to go now.

[Kanna]

@Billy; why...would you vote Non?

[Kanna]

Very much disagree with the direction Billy is going here. I can understand some suspicion on me, but for everything else, I'm thinking the opposite.

skitter is very suspicious and Map/Non are very town imo.

[Kanna]

Mixed feelings about massclaim but I think I'm ok with Mena leading today. He's very town after yesterday.

[Kanna]

Sorry guys, almost caught up but not quite. Will be on tonight.

[Kanna]

@Mena from a few pages back; no, I did not receive a notification

[Kanna]

Readlist based on yesterday

Map; town. There was no reason for him to be the third vote and kickstart the GBJ wagon if he was scum + GBJ made a genuine push that way before he was lynched.
Non Imh; town. His last posts were very townie and GBJ also pushed that way. I’m thinking GBJ showed some hesitation in the end because he was so clearly town but did ultimately want to get him lynched.
Mena; very likely town. Started the GBJ wagon, hopped off, then on again. This tells me it wasn’t preplanned bussing.
Uncrowned; weak town/null. He was on the GBJ wagon but I think it’s possible scumUncrowned bussed GBJ at the last minute and his readlist before voting GBJ was to justify being on the wagon.

This leaves Billy and Skitter.

[Kanna]

don't insult Kanna like that

What are you talking about?

[Kanna]

Ok, I'm done catching up and I'm leaning skitter as scum. VOTE: skitter30

[Kanna]

I looked into Billy a bit more and I think his "scumminess" is exaggerated. Especially his posts today don't have scummy agenda since he's defending skitter who is his counterwagon.

My reordered bottom 3 is skitter>uncrowned>billy I think.

[Kanna]

I maintain my view that Billy Pilgram is likely scum. And yes, GBJ refering to him as "seems scum" is a very possible scumslip.

I still stand by the fact that this isn't conclusive evidence...

[Kanna]

I'm also slightly concerned skitter thinks I'm obvtown after yesterday. Reminds me a bit of this:

Like let me make my votes and pushes and at least get a response unfiltered, even if you disagree with it

yes this is town

guys guilty is town, he just doesnt like being pushed earlygame

[Kanna]

bOOp

Readlist based on yesterday

Map; town.

There was no reason for him to be the third vote and kickstart the GBJ wagon if he was scum + GBJ made a genuine push that way before he was lynched.

Non Imh; town. His last posts were very townie and GBJ also pushed that way. I’m thinking GBJ showed some hesitation in the end because he was so clearly town but did ultimately want to get him lynched.
Mena; very likely town. Started the GBJ wagon, hopped off, then on again. This tells me it wasn’t preplanned bussing.
Uncrowned; weak town/null. He was on the GBJ wagon but I think it’s possible scumUncrowned bussed GBJ at the last minute and his readlist before voting GBJ was to justify being on the wagon.

This leaves Billy and Skitter.

[Kanna]

Yeah I think I'm ok with my readlist.

P.S where is everyone?

[Kanna]

@skitter; Apart from POE, Billy isn’t that scummy imo? His posts feel like genuine gamesolving (even though I don't agree with his reads) and he doesn't really have scum agenda so I'm lukewarm on him right now.

Also petty reason but I refuse to believe this is a scumslip. I refuse.

hey im finally online

billy: seems town
guilty: town
kanna: town
mapwolf:town
skitter: null
uncrowned: mixed
mena: mixed
non imh: scum

I'm actually leaning this to be a townslip because I don't think GBJ would be that obvious about his partner.

[Kanna]

@Billy; I really disagree about non...seriously why is he most likely to be scum?

[Kanna]

Happy holiday season everyone!!

[Kanna]

^Is this really evidence for your innocence though? It could easily be distancing from your partner.

[Kanna]

For some reason I find that more scummy. Uncrowned never pushed in that direction until the last minute.

[Kanna]

Also no cc from me. I think that’s everyone so Billy is confirmed town/mason.

It can only really be skitter/uncrowned at this point and it doesn’t help that they were both on Billy’s wagon and both played the same today. I can’t tell which one is more scummy.

[Kanna]

Not much to comment on, my thoughts are still exactly the same. I'm ready for the lynch.

[Kanna]

Nice, a flawless town win! Thanks the worst for modding and everyone in this game for a really good experience!

[Kanna]

if anyone else wants feedback then feel free to ask

I'd like some feedback (maybe when the mason thread is released?)

I need to work on my scumhunting skills though; I was just very wrong until D2 Anyone have any tips for that?

[Kanna]

thinking about mod #15